How To Make The Recession Years Your Best Years

And we're talking about at this level of production, the content doesn't matter. Fuck. Pat.

The microphone should come from here. This madness.

Hey, guys, what's up? Matt here. And today we're going to be talking about recession proof leads. So if you're in sales and marketing, if you are a sales guy and you want to understand a little bit deeper into how marketing works, and if you're a business owner who wants to be able to consistently get leads even in a more difficult economic environment, and this is the episode for you. So make sure you stay all the way through to the end, like, subscribe, hit notification bell, all that kind of good stuff. And we'll see you after our intro. If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and review. All right.

We're here in the new studio.

We are.

Well, it's the old studio, just set up differently.

We did it with a lot more money spent on it.

A lot more money.

Yeah.

Hopefully it's better. Let us know what you think. Give us a comment, make it positive, or else we'll block you.

Yeah, exactly. And that guy in the WhatsApp, that's not me. Just so you guys know, that is.

A big problem on YouTube.

Yeah, it is. It's a problem on every platform.

Yeah.

You know, I think there's like five fake Instagram accounts of me. I get probably three messages a day of people going like, oh, hey, are you trying to sell me crypto? No, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not trying to get you to invest in anything.

How do those games work?

Like, what, they just copy your content? Yeah, it really actually a few of my. Pissing me off because they're taking photos of my kids.

Yeah.

Anyway, and then they just. Anyone who's got a following, I think there's like thresholds of following. You know, you want something too big because it's not believable that they're kind of. You know, there's like, I'm in that perfect zone of like, you know, 15 to 25,000 followers type thing. Not verified. Because it's impossible to get verified on these platforms unless you're like a TV personality. And it's just really easy to fake. Yeah, just put a dot or an underscore. Like it's.

Yeah.

You know, I think Instagram's done it to themselves by making it so difficult to get verified.

Yeah, but so how do they run the scam? Do you know, like, so they message, they say, hey, it's me, it's Matt. I'm reaching out and I want to do this mad crypto thing. Yeah, send me money.

I think that they refer to someone else. From the messages that I've seen, they're like, oh, hey, I've been, you know, using this and getting all my guys to get onto this bitcoin bandwagon thing, like invest here and they like introduce you to themselves.

Right.

You know, so it's sort of like an intermediary introduction through like a trusted person.

Right.

But I've had people who have bought it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's the thing. Like it, it seems like, oh, who would fall for that? But clearly plenty of people are, well.

If you've been following me for a year and it's an identical. Yeah, one and like you don't look into it. Yeah, like, oh, sweet, this guy's talking to me. Yeah, it's a real, it's a real problem.

Yeah.

One of them, one of the accounts followed me and I saw like a follow up. Like I was like, oh, why is he following me now? Like, I, how dare he not be following me all his life. But then I looked and it was, it was a pretty convincing fake. I remember I showed you it. But then I think one of the giveaways is all the posts are on the same day, you know.

Oh, yeah. And then it gets blocked and they ding. Yeah, it's just a, a constant game that they play.

Anyway, carry on.

Yeah.

So recession, you know, it's either been announced or it's coming up. It's a recession is, I believe it's 2/4 in a row of negative or neutral GDP growth. That's what a recession is.

That's the definition.

Yeah.

And how do you expect that to impact our industry?

You know, I think it's going to be really good for some and not so good for others. This is an interesting recession, I think, because we have a labor shortage, which is, which I could be wrong, but I don't think that there's really ever been a labor shortage and a recession at the same time. Usually there's a enormous labor surplus which then leads to a recession because there's so many people kind of sucking from the government tea and there's just not enough jobs to go around and it just creates chaos. But everyone's understaffed right now, which is kind of crazy to think. And so I don't think it'll be a really bad one, personally talking to my wealth advisors and stuff like that. They're saying hunker in for an 18 to 20 more month. Not crazy recession, but it will be one. So that's like from, from my advisors telling me that this is not financial advice in any way, shape or form. Don't listen to me on anything. But yeah. So I think the industry, I think there are like certain things that will be greatly like, it'll be really positive, like when Covid first came. And I think it'll be similar here. There's two types of business owners, business owner that like hunkers down, reduces costs, reduces spend and tries to kind of like stay with their core group of clientele and weather the storm and they just kind of head down. It's a valid strategy. Then there's the other guys who go, well, if my competition is doing that, I might as well just ramp it up to the moon and then try and take the risk. Right. And that's why you saw like a big shift during COVID and like all these like people came out of nowhere. That was kind of one of them because the strategy was reinvest, reinvest, reinvest, reinvest. And the businesses that did that were able to take market share. So that, that like, that will happen again. You'll see a bunch of like the, it's like the low to mid tier people, they tend to hunker down, the big boys because they've got the capital there. So like you know, the big guys like your Dan Henry's and all these kind of dudes who are really established in Sam Ovens, those guys will probably go even harder in the paint and probably get even bigger.

Okay.

But then you'll see most of the mid tier guys kind of drop off and then a couple of them skyrocket.

Right.

So that's kind of usually what I see. And the ones that will be able to do that are the ones that will reinvest and they'll have a lot of different marketing channels.

Okay.

Because like we don't know how it's going to affect YouTube. We don't know how it's going to affect LinkedIn. We don't know how it'S going to affect TikTok. We don't know how if it's going to affect Facebook or Facebook groups or paid advertising versus organic advertising. So I think that having a diversified strategy is in a few different economies is going to be key to having sort of recession proof marketing because it's not going to hit every economy in the same way. Sure, like Australia will be hit, but not that Bad? I don't, I don't really think so. I think that like about 8 months ago I made an active decision to ramp up our Australian presence. Even though we are Australian but such a small amount of our income was coming like 5 or 10%. Now it's more like 25% of our income or 30% is coming from Australia because I knew there was a recession coming in the year US So we made an active choice to really push Australian stuff and then we made an active push to push some UK stuff which is now being hit harder. So we like at seventh level, for example, we've been paying to have our stuff seen in the UK but we haven't actually marketed over there. That only just started about six weeks ago.

So you're kind of back to the start of things we've talked about many times here of like audience building before you actually start to like you're going for reach rather than conversion.

Yeah, because if we, if we reach enough markets then we, then we can choose to convert instead of having to figure out last minute how to convert. So I think being in, being in a few different markets is important. Like if all of your people are Facebook group in the US it's probably not a great place to be right now because we don't know what's going to happen. People in the US could hunker down. Generally speaking, I think skill based things like sales training will go up because businesses invest in sales training during bad economic times. That's just what they do. And during economic booms is really when they sort of pull back on that because it's easy to sell Y. So seventh level I think will continue to skyrocket and anything that's like a skill based thing around making money will probably do quite well. Some of the investment offers will probably suffer like the real estate flipping and all that kind of stuff and that'll probably see a little bit of a hit because.

So biz op in general do you think or just specific ones?

I think biz op could be wrong but I think biz op will probably take a hit just because people who are nine to fivers generally speaking are not massive risk takers. So it'll be a harder thing to get them to take that risk, I think. So the sales cycles will long, will become longer and everything will become a little bit more expensive. Whereas the things that are teaching tangible skills, not like, hey, just like don't worry about the skill, just like let us do it for you, just give us a bunch of money. I think that's probably going to be a little bit harder to come about. Whereas, like the really expensive biz ops, like some of the ones that we sell, which are not really biz ops, but they're people buying genuine businesses that'll probably kill it because the rich get richer during a recession.

Yeah, yeah.

So lead flow, you know, what immediate sort of things should people start putting into place now? Because as you say, like it's not we're on, everyone knows it's coming but. But maybe hasn't, like we haven't ticked the box and said, yes, officially this is a recession.

Yeah.

I think most people are sort of talking about September is what I've heard quite a bit of. That's when it's going to, you know, be in full swing. What are the best actions that business should take?

Now I would start diversifying marketing and then doing a lot of your reach channels into other countries. So like, Dubai is a great, is a great one. UK is obviously really good one. It's very, very population dense. Although the advertising requirements in the UK are quite stringent. Like they were part of the eu but they sort of still fall under EU like legislation when it comes to all the tech companies.

Okay.

There was a big massive legislation that just came through which says like, everything is opt in. Everything is opt in. So they've just put massive mandates on Google, Twitter, Facebook and like basically those three and, and Instagram and said, you guys are responsible for what happens on your platform. Like you have to take things down faster. You cannot sell data without express permission. You cannot kind of cross pollinate data without express permission. Whole lot of things. Which is like a flow on from the iOS 14 update, which came in probably six or eight months ago, which kind of got rid of that pixeling.

Yeah, yeah.

Which to be honest, hasn't really, I don't think affected the marketing industry.

Yeah, that's what's going to ask about. Because there was a lot of concern about that.

Right.

And how many people do you think, like, just were like, yeah, I'm cool to carry on. Like they opted into that on Facebook probably a ton.

Yeah, yeah, I did.

Yeah, I did too. So I initially didn't because I was like, ah, fuck you.

Right.

Like, this is for me. And then I'm getting ads for like. Because the ads don't stop. They're not, they're not going to show you less ads, they're just ads that you don't care about. And I was like, oh, I'm going back in.

Because I'm back in Baby, just when.

You think you get out.

Yeah.

But, like, I. I genuinely thought. I was, like, I was shocked at my own behavior because I was like, I. You know, very often you do, like, a loose Google search on something. You find a product that you like will solve the problem, but then that later that afternoon, you get shown an ad of a better product that solves a problem.

Yeah.

And I was like, well, I prefer this. Like, yeah, I'm an adult. I can. I'm. I'm in charge of my own money. Like, I'm as susceptible to the dopamine hit as anybody else. Like, I. I get that marketers often trap me, and I don't realize, but I was like, I don't want to get ads for stuff. Like, I have zero interest in. I want stuff that will actually be helpful and guide me to a correct purchase.

Yeah, I, like, I think. I think the uptake was pretty big.

Yeah.

Because we've seen all of our ad costs drop.

Right.

So I think you probably have. It probably did a culling of the herd and, you know, and like, it had more higher intent. Buyers stay in the ecosystem.

Yeah.

And because we do so much reach, you know what I mean? People are kind of opting in, into our kind of channels, I suppose, instead of kind of being forced in. So, I don't know. I've seen. I think there were a lot of businesses that, like, relied on their pixels. And the fact that, like, they had 10 years, it really didn't hurt the new businesses. It was the really established ones that I think it would have opened the lane for newer businesses to come in and take market share faster. Because, you know, something like a Grant Cardone, for example, like, their website would have had tens of millions of data points that's tied back to a Facebook pixel. So I think Grant is the highest spender on Facebook, I think, because you can't target him anymore. Okay, so you used to be able to target anyone with the interest of Grant Cardone.

Yeah.

Which was just doing all the work that he'd put in.

Yeah.

Just piggybacking.

Just piggybacking.

It's like following an ambulance through traffic.

Yeah, it's exactly what it is. So him and, like, three or four others. So Tony Robbins, Grant Cardone. I think there's like three or four other big ones like Dean Grazio, anyway. And you can't target them anymore. So you can't do that because, like, they are the highest spenders. So, like, I imagine Grant's probably spending 100,000 bucks a day on Facebook, probably even more. He probably laughed at that number, you know, because I know he's listening.

Right?

Yeah, totally, totally, 100%. Explain that, what a pixel is, because that sort of goes over my head a little bit.

That's a good question. I'm glad you asked it.

Go ahead.

No, so from my understanding, and I'm sure the comment section will let me know how wrong I am, essentially it's a bit of code that you put into the website. I know because I've done it. Right. So you downloaded this block of code, you, you put it in the website and that creates a tracker which then talks back to Facebook. And then it was building an audience. So like way back in the day when I used to use it, like you had to get, I think it was like 2,000 people had to hit the actual page before it would start to kind of like re upload that data.

Okay.

Then from there you use that pixel and like you can start retargeting people from wherever that pixel was from. So like if you had a specific pixel on your thank you page, say after they booked a call or after they bought something, then you know that you're only going to be those people are all buyers.

Right.

So you can have a specific advertising campaign set up for those people, which creates very cheap advertising because nobody else is competing for that exact audience. And that's where the bidding and the auction like economy starts to go crazy. If you're all bidding for 18 to 65 year olds that you know that are interested in business. Right. That's such a, it's too broad. But also there's so many people who don't do good targeting just bidding for that audience. So if you're bidding for like just those individuals, because it's tagging their ip.

People who have purchased from me already.

Yeah. Or you're even looking at people who like abandoned cart.

Right? Yeah.

For example, like then I can target Those people with 10% off exactly what they just purchased or exactly what they just went for. So that's really what it was, what it was built for and that's why they used it.

So why would an older business have more trouble than a new business?

Because they would have had a ton of those people.

Right.

So every time somebody hit that website, it pixel them. So now it tracks them around the Internet.

Right.

So you mean like so you just move adopted out.

So so like let's say I had a website, you know, like mattrider.com or whatever.

Yeah.

And maybe like crush sales.net or something.

Yeah. Something crazy you say. Crushes.

Yeah.

So let's say that, let's say that website's been going for 15 years and I've had a pixel on there since day one because pixels go back a very, very long way and I could have had the same pixel on there just generating. So let's say I've spent 3, 4 million dollars on Facebook and I've sent everyone there. I've got 4 million dollars worth of my hard earned money and data and IP addresses. So therefore all my marketing is cheap because I'm going for a particular audience, like not anyone's bidding against me. So I get really good quest priced advertising and then all of a sudden they go, you can't use that anymore.

Right.

So now I've got to rely on, I've got to change my entire marketing system. So that's, that's why like the people who are relying on that as like that's their, I've got this, you know, amazing amount of data in my business. Like it's gone.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I mean you can still upload like if you manage to get their emails and that email matches Facebook, then you can upload that data and you can still create lookalike audiences but it's a much more not passive system anymore, it's now an active system. So they have to like agree to opt into something.

Yeah.

And then you can get their data, then you can make it into a lookalike, an audience. Then once you get a good enough audience, you can create a lookalike audience. And that's the beauty of Facebook is that like the machine learning is so strong.

Yeah.

But if you fuck that up it goes really bad.

Yeah.

You get a bunch of people who are not buyers.

Yeah, yeah, it's really easy to do.

Um, what about like that, as you just mentioned, that capture of email address, like recession coming. How important do you think it's going to be to actually have the, the actual contact details of someone? Not the social media approach to it.

You have to like email is the only one that you own. So your website and your email, like you essentially own that.

Right.

Because you can back up that data on actual spreadsheets. So you can like, you know, we use ActiveCampaign and like that's my stuff. Like it's all there, it's mine. I will have all the tags set up but in a day I can also just back that up into a spreadsheet and I can store that locally and then I can re upload that to anywhere that I want to.

You can literally put it on a thumb drive, carry it around your pocket.

Exactly. And so that's got name, phone number, email, and it's got everything that they've bought and all that kind of stuff. So I can, if I have a good enough list. And affiliate marketers have been doing this for years. Like, they build enough trust in the marketplace that they just. Or their entire income is just from the trust they have with their list. There's a guy, if you ever want a best selling book, right. It's 50,000 bucks.

$50,000 for a book?

Off.

To be called a best selling book, you mean?

No, to be a bestseller.

Right, right. Okay.

Like, but not at a. Not a bullshit bestseller, an actual bestseller.

Okay.

Like you'll get on the New York Times, right. It's like 50 grand. And this guy has a, his email list of 5 million people.

Right, okay, right.

And that email list, everyone signed up to his service because he sells books at a dollar, right. So a book that would cost you 29.95, he gives it to you for a buck, so you pay him 50 grand. And then he has a release every week of a new book that comes out and it coincides with the release of the actual book. And so like all of his people are in a subscription service where they get access to super cheap books. And they're all book people.

Right.

So he just does an email once a week. Hey, here you go. And from 5 million people, it's a very, very active list. You usually get around 10% of people buying the book.

Okay, Right.

Because it's for a buck. Now you don't make any money off that. Yeah, you make a bit. You make 50,000, you make like, you make your investment back or maybe you make double your investment back. But the thing is those people are now like, that's 100,000 buyers.

Yeah.

Or 500,000 buyers.

So you're on the bestseller.

So you, you released your book in day one. 500,000 people bought it.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Like, and the cool thing about that is one, it's real because they actually bought the book.

Yeah, they actually bought it, consumed it.

Yeah. And it's an ebook, Right. So then you have funnels in the ebook.

Yeah.

And so that's like, that's how you get people into your funnel. So like, you don't have to now go the full publisher route. You can, can just do that. And this guy's just got a great business where he has, he has trust in the marketplace and he's got 5 million people. He makes $50,000 a week by sending an email.

Nice work if you can get it.

I know.

Right, right. Yeah.

Okay, so what about Outbound? Let's talk about that. In regards to recession has come, the leads are no longer coming in. Like people are just not interested anymore.

Right.

Like if people are hunkering down, they're not spending money, you know, for whatever reason. How important do you think Outbound is going to be and what would be like your advice to people in that process?

Well, there's a few different types. So there's cold calling, which I think is like the rise of cold calling is coming back, you reckon? Oh yeah, for sure.

Why? Explain that.

Because you can. Like as much as sales is not a numbers game, it's the one thing that you can make a numbers game. Okay, so like with sales calls or just there's a lot of different variables, but like with enough time and enough dials and enough data, like you can go, okay, if we make 1,000 cold calls, we will get this return because. And there's so many great programs like Seamless IO now where like it literally just generates decision makers phone numbers for industries. So it's sort of like LinkedIn, sales navigator. If you've ever gone to the back of there where you can kind of like segment people, job description, income, revenue of business, their titles, you can do that all in Seamless, but for cold calling and it pulls their phone numbers like you can on Seamless. We got the MBA commissioner's cell phone number.

Yeah, right, yeah, like.

Cause if it's out there, it finds it.

Yeah, right.

So if it's ever been posted on a website ever, like, and so like that, that, that commissioner was not always the commissioner of the NBA. Yeah, yeah, he's, he had other jobs.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And so like who was a less.

Important person that had to take phone calls on his personal phone?

Yeah, so it just pulls all that. And so you just create lists and you can just go through them. Good at cold calling. Then you just, it's like door knocking. Door knocking will never go away. People who are good at door knocking are really good at door knocking. I was speaking to Joseph Fredberry who's like a seventh level client and I was like, man, he's like a hundred thousand dollar a month commission earner selling solar door knocking. Totally does. And I was like, man, you have like a superpower. It's like, what do you mean? I was like, well like I can get on phone calls and I can close basically most people. I was like, but I still need, like a system to make that work. You just need to be dropped off in the middle of fucking nowhere, bro. Like, you just get dropped off and as long as there's people that are home, you're good.

Yeah.

I was like, that is a goddamn superpower.

Yeah.

We actually have him doing even, like, because he just likes us because we trained him. He does two sessions a week for the inner circle guys who do tour to door about door approaches and all that kind of stuff. And it's a very interesting game. Like, how to not be identified as a sales rep. Jeremy has some really cool stuff. He used to wear like the new Balance white sneakers. He'd wear a high vis vest. He'd have a clipboard. He had a tape measure on him, all that kind of stuff. And he's like, no, I needed the tape measure because if I'm doing the security system, I needed to measure a few things. But he's like, it's all just to not be looked at like a sales guy. Just be looked at like a.

You should get that guy on just a. Yeah, yeah. You should definitely talk because I think that's super interesting, the door to door.

Oh, it's fascinating.

Yeah.

It's not really done in Australia too much. It is done, but not very often. It's mainly for charities and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Um, but it's definitely underutilized. But so, but like any, any of those feet to the pavement, like activity based grinding type stuff will work well whether it's a recession or whether it's not. So. And then you've got like, just like easier forms of marketing. So like using lead forms on Facebook. Like Facebook loves lead forms because it keeps all the data internal to Facebook. So those lead forms were created to actually deconflict the email address that you were using and the email address that you use.

Explain that.

So you know how when you sign up to Facebook.

Yeah.

You probably used PAT18743259@yahoo.com which you haven't logged in for 25 years.

Right.

Well, if you've ever filled out a lead form, they have your real email address now.

Right. Okay.

Right. So. And then they'll prompt you to change it.

Okay.

You know, because they want your active email.

Right.

So that's sort of why they do that last.

Everything isn't there. They get you.

Yeah.

So like the lead form is like, you don't require click funnels, you don't require anything. It just pops up. It's native within fate within Facebook. It comes up auto populates name, phone number, email, and then if you change any of those, it's now updated.

Right.

But it's, it's so cheap because Facebook prefers it.

Right.

You send them off platform on. On to click funnels.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so. Or like whatever you're using, unbounce or whatever. So that's a really easy form of marketing. Not easy, but it's easier. And you can do really simple lead, lead capture without having to set up loads of like, tech. And then from there you've got lists that you can outbound. You've also got an email. You can zap that straight over to your, to your active campaign or whatever. So you can create a nice comprehensive web relatively simply without having to do any sort of crazy automation these days. Which is. Which is pretty cool.

Yeah.

What about sort of going forward, like, you know, spending habits during a recession? What do you think? Like, for the average person, like, not, you know, we talk a lot about sort of B2B kind of stuff here, but for the average person, you know, random Jono works a normal job. What do you expect will happen in a recession with that person?

I can only really talk about what happened during COVID because that's sort of.

Like that closest avatar of it.

Yeah. Cause I, like, I haven't. We've had pretty prosperous times, you know, like, so. And everything I was doing was gyms before it was. It wasn't really relying on like, economic standpoint. And Australia has been kind of a bubble for years. So having brick and mortar, we didn't really feel an ebb and flow. We felt seasonal ebb and flows. We didn't feel like economic, like ebb and flows. But I think people's spending habits generally, from what I've seen, like, people went for it pretty hard and we saw like an immediate shrinking of the market and then a massive expansion. So we saw this like, it was like March of say 2020, as everyone was like, like, you know, February was like, it's Covid. What's this thing? You know, and then March it was like, oh, like this is a big thing that isn't. That is going to affect the entire world. Like, sales were impossible for like a good three weeks, but then it became like a selling point.

Y.

You know, and so like, you know, you don't need. Don't need that many people. You know, like, if like is generating leads doesn't get any harder, I don't think, like actually generating interest doesn't get much harder. Generating sales gets harder. So because people in down economic times are looking for a way out of it.

Right.

That. But it just. Just elongates your sales cycles.

Right.

And you've got to have more comprehensive marketing. You've got to have better marketing because, like, you're going to be competing with better class of businesses. Because a lot of businesses will shrink out, but then the big boys will go even harder in the paint.

Yeah.

Like at 7th, like, we're one of the biggest sort of B2C sales training organizations probably on the planet. Like, we're big. It's a big, big, you know, sign up 300 people a month type thing. Like, as soon as that's announced, we'll just triple everything.

Yeah. Right. Okay.

Because it's like, all right, well, now we can play the spending game.

Yeah.

So it's like I will outspend everybody because I've got the reserves. I've been planning for this, like, and this is an opportunity for me. While some of our competitors kind of back off and back down, we'll just go. We'll just try and steamroll them.

Yeah.

You know, and.

And then I suppose think about that into like, you're gaining the initiative and then maintaining the, like, that shock of capture to talk military terms where no one else can even, like, you know, cast a candle to what you've. You've consumed while they've been regrouping.

Yeah. That's why I saw, like, it was interesting because as a sales guy during COVID because I was just commissioning sales dude during COVID it was really interesting to see the businesses that went for it and the ones that didn't and the ones that like, sort of dialed back like, I never heard from them again or like they just kind of limped along.

Did anyone surprise you in that regard? Anyone take a stand or do the opposite of what maybe you expected?

One of the businesses that I was selling for kept saying that everyone needs to double down, but then didn't.

Okay.

Didn't themselves.

No.

Yeah.

Right. This is an opportunity. And there was like, we kind of went through this whole sales pitch, but then they kind of pulled back all their spend.

Yeah.

This is frustrating. So I left.

Yeah.

And then I saw a few people kind of go really hard in the paint, but I think, like, they pivoted too hard and they just kind of did weird stuff.

Yeah.

And they started. A lot of businesses started to do like these crazy resign things. There was one business which was with healthcare and may have. The decimation was insane.

What?

Well, because everything got all the healthcare Providers got shut down.

Right, right.

So they were a coach for health care. Like, you know, Cairo's physios, dentists, you know, gym, stuff like that. They all got shut down.

Yeah. Right.

So it was, it was crazy because I was sort of there while that was happening and it was, you know, it was like 25 requests to pause a day and it was just like, whoa. So they did like some crazy pivot stuff, which actually kind of worked and kept them afloat and they managed to kind of build it back up. But that was really interesting to watch. Yeah, the tradies, because I was selling tradies at the time as well. That was super interesting because, like, they just shut down, basically, and then from there they had more work than they knew what to do with.

Yeah.

So it like went from tradies who were kind of struggling to win jobs to, like, there were so many jobs on, they didn't know what to do with themselves. And so the sales became different. And then when I started selling sales training, it'd be. Selling sales training is kind of different because you can use any situation as an advantage. You just kind of, kind of spin it the right way. So, you know, teaching people how to sell during a recession just, just, just became a hook. Hello.

Hello, sir.

What are you doing? Are you going now? Right there.

Love you, bud. Figure that out.

Boosh.

Yeah.

Okay. And. And do you expect that of any of our clients? Do you think that. Is there anyone that's going to have to change radically or diversify in a way that you have. You're not expecting?

Well, I think we're lucky in a way that, like, Marco has been.

I've been prepping everyone.

I've been prepping everyone. So he kind of laid out recession plans for every business. And so most of the people that we're working with started uk, Australia, Dubai, and a couple of other, like, reach can, like, mechanisms. And then he's warned a few of them. So, like, if you don't change, you'll be dead in three months.

Right.

And some of them are doing it, some of them aren't. We'll see how they go, see how it pans out. Yeah.

So, yeah, that's interesting. Okay, so realistically, by now it's probably like, if you haven't started putting things in place, you maybe should.

You should probably get a move on, get at it. But I mean, it's impossible. It's. It's hard to say. You know, I think, like, there'll be some offers. Like, I think, I think coaches that coach Coaches are going down anyway. Personally, I think done for you is going to be much more prevalent over the next couple years than what done with you. I think the coaching industry has gone through this enormous boom and Covid as like, well, let's say online education. Right.

Yeah.

It took an enormous boom because everybody had to. Everyone got more used to consuming online education. Like zoom wasn't a thing.

Yeah.

A couple years ago.

Yeah.

And now I probably spend 25% of my life on zoom.

Yep.

You know, which is crazy to think Wild.

Yeah.

People are like, oh, send me a zoom link. And two years ago you're like, what are you talking about?

Yeah.

Now it's worth, you know, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars and it's thing that everyone just uses day to day.

Yeah, well, zoom's a verb now.

Yeah.

Like it's a. It's a doing word.

Like you. I'll.

Let's zoom over it.

Right, right.

Instead of meeting you, literally, you use that term.

It's crazy.

I think that's super interesting in that do you think much more in person training is coming in and. And do you think that there's vulnerabilities in that? Like, you know, you got to be better, I think, in person than you do?

Oh, for sure you do.

Yeah.

I think in person's definitely coming back because I think people will thrive on that and it almost become a novelty. Um, but I think that the whole. Done with you. Done for you. Do it yourself. I think. I think it's gonna. It's been sort of a lot of done with you. There's a lot of coaching that Coaches coaches, which is fine. Um, the only problem I have is like two weeks ahead of their students. That's a problem. But I think that whole industry people are kind of starting to see the holes in it. Yeah, it's not as valuable, I think, is what a lot of people have thought to. The people who I'm seeing that are being really successful are people that are just directly teaching the consumer or people that are doing. Done for you, I think, are the people that are going to be really successful. Whereas like that kind of middle ground where you're just teaching people to almost teach it.

Yeah, that's.

I think that's going to die away because it's essentially. It's not a pyramid scheme. Because it's not. But it's an informational pyramid scheme.

Yeah, it's close to it.

There's no pyramiding going on in terms of the actual monetary transactions, but in terms of the dissemination of the information, you've got like seven people that are in Russell Brunson's Mastermind.

Right.

Like the $250,000 a year, one or whatever. It's like there's like 10 people on that, I think. And then from there those 10 people, they coach 20 people. Those 20 people, they coach 50 people each. Those 50 people.

It has a particular shape.

Yeah, it does. But again, like, there's no transference of money. Like as in, you know what I mean? It's just, it's the information and.

Yeah.

The money stops at one level.

Yeah.

Although I guess you could make a case it does, it does go back up. It all. It all ends up in Russell Brunson's pocket anyway.

Yeah, eventually.

Yeah. But it's not a pyramid scheme. People throw that around a lot. Like, oh, it's appearance. Like, well, if you're teaching someone how to do something, it's not a pyramid scheme.

Yeah.

Like, you know, and I think they.

Can tangibly, if they can take that information, go outside of the pyramid and make, make money, then.

Yeah. But like, if you're selling magic water filters, that's a pyramid scheme.

That's a pyramid scheme.

Yeah.

Yeah. Multi level marketing is a pyramid scheme.

Yeah, it's fine.

Do you think? Yeah, you know, but. Yeah, so I think, I think that there will be a shift in industry, more for the done for you side. I just think there's more value in that. Like, like what we're seeing is that people are coming to us with much more of, like, I want to hand this, this part of my business over. Like, I, I don't have a wish to do it.

Okay.

And that's what we're seeing. Like, I've got a couple of, We've taken on a couple of like, partners where we're kind of going 50, 50, and we're doing the sales and the marketing. They're doing the delivery and the operations. And it's like, so we're doing a big chunk of their business and then they're delivering it. And so in exchange for that, we take half.

Yeah.

You know, not equity, but we take half the revenue.

Yeah.

And. And that's a pretty fair trade, you know, so we're seeing a lot of people coming in who want something like that rather than like, I'll pay you $15,000 a month, you just do my marketing for me. Or so that teach me how to do it.

Something I've noticed since being here is that kind of is, to an extent, you seem to have some magic about that. About, you know, taking over a piece of people's business and really in a, in a super profitable way for them, that how do you overcome the resistance of that? Because, you know, like, I get it. The numbers always stack up, right? Like half of a million is better than all of 10 grand.

Yeah, yeah.

And like beyond just explaining it that way, what, what's like, what technique do you have that you seem to be so good at, like convincing people to, to give you so much more beyond the runs you have on the board of like, well, look how much. Look how good we are at it for other people.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. There's usually a couple of pain points that business owners have that when extrapolated are a bit more painful than what they originally thought. So like, if we take someone like Spencer, right, Like we essentially absorbed his come his entire company and how we did that was like sort of he was really good at what he did, but his business wasn't at the level where it should have been, especially compared. It wasn't unsuccessful anyway. It was a successful business, but it wasn't where it should have been because like his area of genius, genius is doing the thing. So you get a lot of people, like in this industry, in particular in coaching and consulting, you get people who have particular areas of genius. Like Spencer's world class. I put him up against any CEO on the planet. Like he is a savant at operations and kind of making things work and figuring out how to do stuff right. And then from there tangibly putting that into an action plan and then disseminating that to people and then having like the whole operational side. But what he's not good at is sales and marketing. You know, and sales and marketing, unfortunately for some, is an extraordinarily important component to a business. And a lot of people also don't want to run the business. They just love doing the thing. You know, like, you might love, like you love dog training, but you might not love doing the books for a dog training business. You might not love the sales and the marketing and the content, all this kind of stuff. So it's like what I generally do is like, I will allow you and I will empower, empower you to do the thing that you do really, really well. And that's all you have to do. And then everything else will be taken care of. So it's like, do you want to wake up every day and just do the thing that you're most passionate about in the world? Yes. Okay. Do you want to spend the next 10 years with your head down, ass up on a spreadsheet, worrying about numbers, needing projections. No. Okay, well then let's just do it this way.

Yeah.

And most time they go, yeah, I like that. Yeah, that sounds really good. I get to wake up and just do what I want.

Yeah.

And we'll organize the rest of it. Like, we'll, like, we'll put you in a box and you just do whatever's in that box. And then we'll create and make sure that everything around that is done.

It's a, it's a hefty weight of like relinquishing control. That's what I'm often surprised when, like, and, and trust as well.

But I guess if we're only being renumerated on, on winning.

Yeah.

You know, then like we, we have a lot of operational burden, administration, and we're a big machine now. There's a lot of people, you know, so like, you know, a lot of these businesses are, are tiny compared to ours. And so we are like the mothership that, that has all the things that they require. We, we have a consulting company which can dissect the business, figure out what's going right and wrong, and then place sales reps, SDRs, train your team. We have a done for you sales company which will just do your sales. We have a done for you marketing company and we have a done for you operational build out company. So sort of you're good.

Yeah.

The only thing I won't do is your finances, but I'll like, we'll have a monthly meeting and we'll go over your finances and if you need referrals, I'll send you the right people because we've got that stuff pretty well sorted now. So like we have like, they can come to us and they never have to leave. And so I think it's. MPP is a really big consulting firm which is exactly what we're doing. But they do it for Fortune 100, okay. And they've been around for a long time and they're very good at what they do. And so companies come to them at $100 million and go, I want to get to a billion dollars a year. And they go, okay, here's your plan. And that plan costs you 5 million bucks for the plan. And then they send you into all the subsidiaries, right? Here's a graphic design firm that's going to redo all your stuff. Here's the sales trainer. Here's the marketing company. Here's this, here's this, here's this, here's this, here's this, everything, you know, and so. And they're a huge, huge company. The difference between them and us, one, they're much bigger and been around much longer, but they don't own the subsidiaries, whereas we do.

Right.

So Scope will act at some stage as that sort of point of contact for like those companies that want to come in and go, okay, I'm at $5 million a year and I want to get to $50 million a year. It's like, okay, cool, we'll come and create a five year plan for you to get there. And then like timeline when you get handed off to each subsidiary based off where you are in your business cycle, you know, and kind of help them grow through that.

Yeah.

In exchange for that, we'll get paid well for services and take a chunk or however we decide to do that.

And so that's something that established business now that is like, recession's coming, I need to bring in the help. That's something they can consider doing now. Like.

Yeah, exactly. Because we don't really. We're not like, we do have some super expensive, you know, consulting packages that we sell one every couple of months, like 450,000 bucks and stuff like that. I saw one like, two days ago. But for the most part, we are a performance based.

Yeah.

Entity which just works off winning. So, like, like, if we don't win, we lose money.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, you don't make money. Yeah, we don't. When we lose money.

Yeah.

So it's a lose, lose.

Yeah.

So. But we have as much risk in the game as what somebody else does. And the fact that we've been able to grow a business, like, it's much easier now that we're a bigger business than most of our clients. Like, when we first started, like, I was much smaller, but like, there's not a single business that we sell for that's as big as us.

Right.

There's just not. So that makes it easier for me now to come in and say, well, I've been through these steps. Yeah, I've been from 500 to a million to 2 million to $3 million a month. Like, I know, I know what that process and kind of what the teething issues are like. So if you want, you can come on and we'll help you grow through that. And we can, we can maybe stop you from making some of the mistakes. Some of the businesses, like, we sort of just took on a client that we've been doing really well for in the sales we just took them on for media, and we took them on. On consulting for me to help them grow, because they're like a. You know, I think we sold.

I don't know.

I don't know. It's a pretty decent sized commission, but I don't know what we sold, but it would have been a fair bit. Right, right. And I was like, okay, so, like, who's your bookkeeper? They're like, I. I am. I'm like, oh, bro, you're making money now.

Yeah, yeah.

This is not the time for that. Right. So, like, things like that, they're just young business owners. They've. They've hit a good thing. They're getting successful, making, you know, six figures a month. There's some things that need to be done in order to make sure the wheels don't fall off here. And so I've made all the mistakes.

Yeah.

Up all those things. You know, overpaid tax, underpaid tax, had bad bookkeepers, bad accountants. Now I've got good bookkeepers and good accountants. So I know what the difference is, and I know what to look out for. I can look at a P and L and figure out if your accountant's good or bad.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

You know, so. But just by asking a few questions, because I've just. I've. I've been through all that, and that was a really annoying and painful and expensive process. Plus, I used to have brick and mortar, which is a far more, I guess, complicated from a business modeling standpoint. It's just really difficult to run. Like, you know, we had 18 brick and mortar gyms, and I was responsible for the growth of all those gyms. So I was in all the books and numbers all the time. So I got a good understanding of all that. So. And I'm a lot older than most people in the street. Most of these guys are, like, 28.

Yeah.

You know, that's so wild.

Hey. Yeah.

So interesting, especially in coaching and consulting, to be that young.

Yeah. And so, like, for me, another thing is I'm older and make more money than them. So, like, it's the obvious answer. Yeah.

All right, wrap it up. Tell us, like, recession's coming. Give it in a nutshell. What should people do aside from going to crush sales.net?

Yeah, go to crushdales.net just have daddy take care of it for you.

Right.

It's fine. No, but diversification of channels. So not only having multiple platforms, but having those platforms in multiple economies. Okay, so do some Googling. Figure out what economies are linked and what ones are sort of like less linked. And then from there try and diversify across the world as best you can. It's one of the amazing things about having Internet based business is that you can open up a business in the UK tomorrow. So doing that and then from there having a look at your offers and making sure that your offers reflect the time that we're in. And so have a look at your messaging and use that to then increase your reach. So go to those new markets, do your reach, check out what's working and what's not. Not through conversion because that becomes really expensive. If you're problem solving on conversion channels, it's really expensive. Whereas you can problem solve on reach channels super easily. If you're hitting reels that are going crazy, you know what I mean? Then it's really good. Or if you're getting really good click through rates and watch rates on content ads, that's a great sign. That means that whatever you're talking about in those ads or in that content is going to hit when it comes to an offer. But if it's just hitting nothing, then no one's going to give a fuck about it. So, yeah, probably change your messaging up. Yeah, yeah. And then just make the decision as to whether or not you hunker down and hoard your cash and kind of do it that way, which may be winning strategy or if you double down and just go for it, which again may be the winning strategy.

But absolutely not financial advice.

Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. In no way listen to anything that I've said. All right, so that little bit about sales.

Yeah, yeah, that's that bit. 100%.

Yeah, yeah, you can hang your hat on it. All right, guys, thanks very much. Let us know what you think about the new setup. Let us know in the comments down below if you have any other burning questions or desires that you need answered by someone the likes of myself and Patrice.

Yeah, I'll ask the questions, Matt. Answer them.

That's right. And yeah, we will place another video, which we think that you'll like, somewhere around here and we'll see you guys in the next video.

Ciao.

Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.