How to Turn Cold Leads Into Conversations

What's up, Steve?

Hey, what's up, Kaden?

Nothing crazy, man. Anything specific you'd want to cover or work on? It's just you right now.

Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, um, I think I sent you a message here a few, uh, few days back, um So to kind of COVID things in here, man, um, right now what I'm doing, I sell 401s outbound to current ADP clients. So it's not like we have like a lead list, like where they like accept an ad or something. It's just straight cold calling to these business owners. And I try to upsell them on a 401. So they already have like the payroll and stuff for us. Um, my question is like, how can I build a structure, maybe using identity? I've already built something out here. We can kind of go over it. Yeah, to kind of like help me get lower the resistance with my prospects and just make it a very repeatable process. I can start making more money with 401s if that's something you could possibly help.

Yes, yes, identity can definitely help with that. Now, just to— before I dive into it though, let me make sure I understand. It's more B2B if I'm understanding correctly.

B2B. So I'm calling, I'm calling like businesses with 1 to 50 employees.

Okay, and they're not already clients? Your first step one is to make them a client, and then you guys—

they're already, they're already clients of ADP payroll.

Okay, so, oh, it's the payroll system. So you guys are already doing their payroll and you're wanting to do like offer retirement services for their employees?

Exactly. But the angle we typically take it in is, hey, you can have this as a way to lower your taxes now, because what typically happens when we go down the employee retention and employee like route, they're like, oh, I'm not even sure my employees would want this, or, oh, maybe, maybe later on when we're bigger, right? It typically triggers those objections compared to when we go down the tax route. They're a bit more— those objections disappear.

I typically see, yeah, because they want the taxes. They're like, yeah, save me on taxes. Absolutely. And then I can scale a little bit more. And so with identity, I think it's Identity is kind of unique because you're going to hear a lot of different stuff that's out there, right? And people will build an entire structure on it. And while I think it is true to say that we need to build the buyer into who they need to become, there's also a double-edged sword there that if we place an identity that doesn't make sense, especially with the business owner, like a more Type A individual, that just lands flat, right? Which I don't know if you've experienced that or not. And so the identity, instead of building it into the process, keep doing the process you're currently doing and start to learn to listen for the identity. Uh-huh. Right? And so the, the easiest thing that I can tell you to start implementing identity very quickly is all you're doing is you're listening for things that they're doing and then you're giving them a high five for doing that thing and tying it to an identity. Mm-hmm. Right? So it could be as simple as them even being open to that conversation and jumping on with you. Right. It's like you open up that call. Hey Steve, how's it going? They're like, good. It's like, okay, perfect. Let's dive in here. You know, I'm glad to be—

Hayden, is it okay if I just quickly drop off and then come back in? Because I want to make sure that I'm recording this.

Yeah, no stress, man.

Thank you, Matt. And in the meantime, I'll just send my script here really quick. Cool. And let me, uh, send this here in the chat. Dude, this is insane. Thank you.

Yeah, that's fine.

Let me, uh, share it here, work on it.

I'm going to request viewer access.

I'll make you an editor, why not? Um, perfect. Let me, uh, let me hop on my laptop. I've got it right here. I'm just hopping right into the—

no stress, brother, I'm here.

Yeah, thanks, Matt Ryder. Just out of curiosity, man, have you ever seen like something like this before? Because I literally tried everything when I, when I went through Inner Circle with this stuff and, you know, like none of it worked. Besides, like, I've never tried identity until this point.

Yeah, identity is always going to work. Uh, the thing is, is to understand it's all just about— like, it's about principles versus anything else, you know. And so the principles are still going to remain the same, but if you can start to communicate more to identity and recognize that, then typically you just get better responses, you know, because people are going to That once you start to factor in identity to it, if you do it correctly, what ends up happening is people feel a lot better connection with you than they typically do with most people. And so once they have that connection, then you have way more trust than anybody else. Usually that gives you more empathy. And then from there, it's an open conversation. Yeah, that makes sense. You can fit identity into any process. And so Are you, you're jumping on your laptop, right?

Yeah, because I'm trying to record the session so I can like watch it immediately, like right after this, and then we can, we can do that easy by taking my, your, yeah, I'm looking at your script right now.

What's up, Bradley? We were just talking about identity, helping Steve out here with looking at his script and his structure a little bit. What do you sell, Brad?

Hey, it's Caden. Good to see you. Good to meet you. Likewise. So yeah, I sell a doctoral program in clinical psychology. Cool. So I work in admissions, uh, and yeah, so my clients are mostly, um, high college seniors and people that are looking to get into graduate school, um, start— yeah, yeah, start careers as, as therapists, psychologists, um, and then others are like in their, you know, a couple years after graduation, they're maybe in some profession, whatever that might be, and they may be unhappy with their profession and they want to get into something with more meaning and something that helps people more deeply.. And so, um, yeah, my, my clientele is mostly young adults that are looking to get into, um, becoming psychologists.

So I like it. I like it.

Yeah.

You're in the right place. We will actually talk about a lot, a lot of the stuff that we're about to talk about with, uh, Steve.

Yeah. I'll rejoin here in about 30 seconds. Uh, I'll be right back.

Thank you.

We'll keep waiting. We'll keep waiting, I guess. Um, yeah, a lot of the principles are the same as your as I'm sure you've probably already recognized from the sales process to therapy, a lot of those same principles. I'm very big on— I really like a therapeutic style of selling, which is just if you're able to connect with people better, even in a sales environment, right? I'm a big believer that sales is nothing more than just helping people get out of their own way.

That's a good way of putting it.

Yeah. You know, because people generally when, when we're on a sales call, they, they know what they want to an extent, right? And they're, they're taking a first baby step to get it. However, it's very difficult to make a decision that is aligned with who we want to be when we have the stresses of everyday life. And so really our job becomes how do we help them make that decision based off of who they actually are and who they want to be, like make a decision that's based off of their core values versus a decision based off of like, oh, I'm stressed about bills, I'm stressed about this, and, you know, next week I've got, you know, I've got to take my dog to the vet and all this other stuff that tends to come up, right? So it's just, it's just connecting with people, um, at a deeper level, helping them get out of their own way, right? But obviously the way we do that and the structure we go through there is going to be critically important. Right. Because it's all just, it's all just communication, whether it's sales or not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, Steve, as we're looking at your script here, as you're calling these people because they're already clients in the payroll service, do they, do they know who you are?

They don't know who I am. But typically when I use the familiar tone, the guard just drops with them.

Okay, cool. Real quick. It's about a pending update on some newer credits. A lot of owners here in Florida are using the to keep more of what they earn. Has anybody walked through that with you yet or not? Really love that, right? A little bit. Let's hear your tone as you go through that intro.

Hey, Caden.

Uh, yeah, yeah, who's this?

Hey man, it's just Steve Ozuna from ADP Payroll. Real quick, pending— it's about a pending update on some newer credits. A lot of owners here in Florida are using it right now so they can keep more for the running. Has anyone walked you through that, or not really yet?

Um, aha. No, no, not, not that I can think of. What are you talking about?

Yeah, no worries, man. It's, it's nothing really bananas, right? It's just some newer clients, a lot of owners, especially those who care about like scaling and grow their businesses, are starting to use. Because like, you know, we talk to so many owners who just push us off and You know, those are the ones who are always paying more tax than they expected. You're not one of those guys, right?

I think it's a little too much, brother. Yeah, a little too much too early, right? Because it's, it's obvious, right? It doesn't sound normal. And so if it doesn't sound normal, especially business owners, because business owners are Type A, and when they get— when the thing that's tough about business owners is A lot of people, when they, when they smell bullshit, they'll still stand there and figure out if it's actually bullshit. Business owners, Type A people, they smell bullshit and they leave. They don't stand around to figure out if it's actually a pile of bullshit or not. They're just like, yeah, I smell it, I'm out, right? And so we don't want to be so obvious, right? Just, just tell them, like, it's like, has anybody walked through that with you yet or not really? And they say no. It's like, perfect. That's exactly why I'm reaching out is to walk you through it. I'm not sure if it would make sense or not. Really what it is, is there are just some different ways that you guys can start to save on taxes, you know. So most owners, especially ones who are, you know, focused on, you know, saving on taxes and focused on, you know, how are we able to do that so we can keep more of what we earn? Those are the ones who it typically ends up working out well for. I'm assuming that you guys probably, if you can, want to save on taxes.

Yeah, I do. Yeah, we do.

Okay. I kind of figured. Now, are you going into a full sales call here or are you just looking to, to book it?

Yeah. Like for me, typically, like our goal is just the one call close on the same call, right? So like kind of how you guys do it in insurance, you know, we try to go, we build pain typically the way that most raps in the AP, they just pitch, right? And most of them don't really get past that far. Me, on the other hand, I kind of get past a lot of these people, but I've never tried the script before. I literally wrote it today for this session.

Yeah, so it's just real simple, like real, real simple. I'm not really like, I'm not going to force identity. I'm going to let the identity come, right? Because the really important here right? If I put bullshit into the atmosphere, then I'm going to get resistance, right? And people run off of proof. Our brains run off of proof, right? If I'm not feeling confident about myself, it's probably because I don't do the things that I say I'm going to do.

Mm-hmm.

And if I do the things that I say I'm going to do, if I have discipline, I'm probably a pretty confident person, right? And identity is no different. If I just put a random identity into the ether, they might or might not latch on to that. But if I wait for a little bit and I'm just listening throughout the sales call and then they say something like, oh my gosh, yeah, we— let's say just right there where we were roleplaying, right? And they're like, yeah, we're always looking for different ways to save on taxes. So I definitely like— I definitely want to hear about that.

Okay. Okay. Is it cool if we kind of like just script that part out? Yeah. Or if you— or if you want to— I think it's—

I think it's important to before we get too crazy with the script, I want you to understand that a script is a double-edged sword, right? And the reason I say that is because a lot of people, they want the perfect script. However, we're, we're people talking to people. And in your guys' experience, are people very predictable? No. Yeah. Yeah. Yes and no, but, but usually not, right? Every conversation is going to be different. And so it's more about principles and structure than a perfect script, right? But you can start with a script. It just isn't— the script you start with probably isn't going to be perfect, right? So what I would do, Steve, is instead of us like taking a bunch of time to script it out here, just come back and watch this recording a couple times, try it a few times, and then you'll get a script, right? But your basic core structure of a script is always going to be the same. Generally speaking, you're going to have a couple of questions up at the top, right, that are like easy confirmation questions, easy to answer, because that creates a dialogue in a two-way pattern, right? Like, I, I ask question, I'm in control here, you answer. I ask question, you answer. So I want a couple of questions at the beginning of pretty much every script that are going to just be easy for them to answer. They don't really have to think about. Right. And what that does is now I have their focus. Right now, now we've created a pattern where I'm in control.

Yeah.

Right. And so, and we all know that we need call control if we're actually going to motivate people and persuade people. Right. And why do we need that call control? Because that's a big piece of what's going to make us the authority. Right. And by authority, I don't I don't mean anything crazy. I just mean they're looking at us like, oh shoot, this person might know more about my problem than I know. And they probably— if they know more about my problem, then they definitely know more about the solution. Mm-hmm. Right. So I just want to check those two boxes. And so, like, in your script, an example of that question: has anybody walked you through that yet or not really? Right. So that That's your comfort. That's your easy to answer question. All they have to say is no, yes or no, right? They don't really have to think about that. And so I, I think this intro here is pretty good and then I'm just gonna roll right into it. Now, in my experience at this point, I've provided those two questions. If I have a lead-based system at this point, I'm just gonna do a frame or maybe it's inbound. I'm gonna do some sort of frame cuz I want, The reason I'm doing the frame there— any, any of you guys, I know there's only 3 of you guys here, but have you guys ever, you know, if you're somewhere that like you're— it's your first time there, right? And it's like a setting where you are a guest at somebody's house or something like that. You walk down the hallway and they told you to go find the bathroom, but all the doors are shut and you open up the bathroom door, but you do it really hesitantly because you're not sure if it's the bathroom. Right? We've all done that. And why are we hesitant? We're hesitant because we don't know what's behind the door, right? And so in every script, what I want to do is I want to take that feeling away from the prospect. I don't want them to be wondering what's behind the next door, because if they're wondering behind what's the next door, then what does that mean they have? They have some anxiety. Right? They're a little bit nervous. They're wondering about that. And if they're wondering about that, then what are they not? They're not present, right? They're not there with me. And so I have to let them know a little bit about what's to come at this stage. So a couple confirmation questions, one or two is usually fine. Create that pattern. Now I need to create some sort of context for the call so they're not wondering the whole time what is going to happen. Right. So if it's inbound, it's usually just some sort of frame. You just let them know how the call is going to go, right? If it's outbound and it's a lead-based system, same thing. Usually it's just some sort of quick frame. You provide a little bit of value there, but you're ultimately just relaxing them. In your situation, it's a little bit different, right? Because you're cold calling, but it's— you're somewhat cold calling because they're already a customer. We're cross-selling. And so what we need to do so that they're not wondering so much is just give them a little bit of education. Right. And I can, I can build in some education to a frame so that they know what to expect.

Yeah, no worries. All it is is just some tax, some credits that goes to different like tax savings programs just to help the business grow faster. Something like that.

Or what? What is it actually, though? Like if you were explaining it to me and you weren't trying to sell me and you're just being super direct, what is it?

Yeah, 401, just a retirement benefit you can offer your business. The 3 main benefits: the money you put into it helps you lower your taxes dollar for dollar. Second benefit, it helps you with your employee retention and attraction. And then third benefit, it helps you save money for your retirement.

Well, it helps the employees save money for their retirement. Does it cost the business anything?

Yes. Yes. But, okay. Uh, the government has a tax credit program which gives them up to $5,000 a year to fully offset the cost.

So it costs money upfront, but in the long run it actually gains money.

No, they, they, the government like literally pays them back through tax credits. Mm-hmm.

Oh, so it doesn't cost them anything.

It, it literally doesn't cost them anything to like have this.

Okay. Um, so they say no, nobody's gone over that with me.

Yeah, that's what they say, like 95% of the time.

Yeah, not a big deal. That's exactly why I'm calling, is just to go over it with you, walk you through how some of this stuff would work so that you have a better idea. Now, to be clear, I'm not entirely sure if it would work. If it's, if it's all right, I'll just ask you a couple of questions about what you're doing right now with your, like, tax strategy and what the business kind of looks like. And then we can go over it from there, see if anything would work.

Okay. Yeah. And then there was just a yes, or like, what's it all about? Or what would they say?

They probably would just say okay, because they're already there, dude. They're already clients.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. And because they're already clients in the payroll system, if I make it too salesy, that's weird. I need to— really, really important concept here. I personally learned this from, from Chase Hughes. But if you change the context, you change the content. Right. And so what is— what does that mean? If I change the environment, then they hear me different. It's no different than like if I get on— if I walk up and I'm looking for a new car, I go to the car dealership and they're trying to sell me. I'm usually probably going to be kind of resistant, right? I'm not going to tell them everything. Yes, right, because I don't like that environment they're trying to sell me. If I have an issue with my car, I take it to the mechanic. Well, the mechanic doesn't get paid unless I agree to let them fix my car, right?

That's true.

So what does the mechanic have to do? They have to sell me.

Yeah, right.

But the environment is totally different than the car dealership where they're also trying to sell me. The mechanic takes it from a different approach. They're diagnosing, they're asking me, and I'm probably being way more open. I'm just telling them everything about the car, right? I'm not gonna— because I want it fixed. And so we have two sales conversations happening. But the environment changes the energy and that changes the content. You guys with me?

Yes.

And so how can you change the environment? You change the environment by the way you approach it. If I come into the call acting like it's a sales call and I'm acting like a sales guy, what are they going to do?

Treat you like a sales guy.

Exactly. But if I come into the call like, hey, you're already a customer with us, all of other clients are doing this, I don't know why nobody's told you about it, how are they going to act?

More open.

They're gonna be way more open. Why? Because I'm just, I'm just there helping them, right? So, um, it's not necessarily just about the words, it's about the approach and your demeanor almost more than the words.

So like more, more like I'm customer service.

Yeah, in a sense, right? I mean, all of us are certain, like, that's what sales is all about, is service in some way, shape, or form.

Um, so I'm guessing for this frame, I'm thinking, yeah, no worries, man, it's just to go over, you know, over— yeah, no worries, it's just to go over some different like programs that you guys could possibly use to, you know, keep more money in the business and grow faster.

Would that—

if you have 2 to 3 minutes now, would that be something you would possibly be open to?

No.

Um, okay.

Yeah, no, no worries. And there's a few different programs that exist to help businesses, uh, with their taxes in your guys' situation. Um, and so I'm not sure which ones would be— would be the best fit. I just have to go through a few questions, get a better understanding, and then I can to see if any of them would even make sense.

Okay. Yeah, I'll probably have to go back to the recording and put that in.

But do you see the difference? I'm telling them. Yeah. And you're asking them for their time.

Mm-hmm.

In my head, their time is a given. Why wouldn't it be?

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

Right now I'm not saying I'm going to be super assumptive, but does that sound overly assumptive?

No. Right.

But what does it sound like? I think I know what I'm doing. I know more about this than you do, and therefore I know more about the solution than you do, and so I can help.

Okay, so we would do the frame, um, kind of when I come back to record, I'll copy what you said there. Uh, should I just take this whole part out after the framework?

Yeah, I'd probably take that out and I would go straight into, um, what— whatever questions you need to ask to get a better situation, like a better understanding of if you can solve their problem.

Yeah, so the problem with this offer, right, like I asked a frame, but how do I actually build a bridge to problem awareness? Right? Um, if you go down to like the script here where I have like hidden pain discovery, it's kind of the questions I came up with. Um, there's not really like a do you like question or like a question that I can ask in between like situation problem awareness that easily lets me bridge to the next question. So that's why I was thinking, like I was looking at your screen, I'm like, you know, Caden does it this way for insurance when they have nothing. And most of my clients, they don't really have anything to lower the taxes besides like the, the accountant to help them with write-offs.

Well, that is the problem, brother. Right. I want to— I want to come back to something you said, though, right? Which you said something. You said the problem with this offer. Is it a problem or is it just a unique thing about the offer? Is it just the situation?

Just, just a situation.

Yeah. It's not, it's not actually a problem, but how you view it is going to change how you, how you fix it.

Yeah.

Right. And so I think what you're actually saying is the hard part about the offer is that the prospects are not problem aware whatsoever. So they have problems that they don't know.

That's 1000%. That's 1000% correct.

They don't know they exist.

That's 1000% correct. How did you know?

And so the problem that, and, and that's probably the same thing for a lot of people that are going to watch this, right, is that I'm working an offer and they looked for something, but they don't necessarily know what— like, they're not super problem aware. And so now if I try to ask them about their problems, they tell me either ridiculous problems or they tell me they don't have any because they don't even know what— really understand it that well, right? And I would flip that and I'd say, instead of looking at that as saying that's a problem on my offer, that's actually a massive opportunity. Because their problem is, is that they can't solve a problem that they don't know exists, right? And if they don't even know the problem exists, they're not going to know anything about the solution, which means who do they have to look to? Me. They have to look— exactly, they have to look to you. And so easiest way to mess up an offer like this is to just is, is literally to ask them too many questions. Right. And I don't mean that you're not going to ask them questions, but if you try to get them to do everything, think about it for yourself, right? If you're in a situation, if I'm brand new, I've never played basketball, I know nothing about basketball, and then I decide I want to get into it, I want to learn about it. I've literally never even seen a game, right? I have no nothing about it. I hire a coach, I go to the gym with the coach, they hand me the ball and they're like, okay, go shoot some. Go, go, go shoot some free throws. And I don't even know what a free throw is. Do I really? How am I looking at that coach now?

In a negative light?

Yes. Right. Because it's like, whoa, like, what are we doing? Right. And so you have to be the leader. You have to lead them through it, which is It all starts right at the beginning, right? We're creating that environment right from the beginning. Just like that frame difference from what you said to what I said. Mm-hmm. They're just like, no, we, uh, no, we haven't. And then you are asking them if they want to, and I'm just saying, okay, yeah, let's like, it's all pretty quick and easy. Um, not sure if any of it's gonna work, but I'll just, I'll go through some stuff, see if any of these programs would make sense. Probably takes 2 or 3 minutes and then we'll, we'll just go from there. Okay. Okay, uh, perfect. So what, what, what programs, if any, are you guys currently doing to help on taxes? Like, like, where are you guys getting tax breaks right now other than just your typical expenses?

Oh, we don't, we don't really have anything.

No, not— what's held you back?

Uh, yeah, man, you know, typically we, we let the accountant handle all that stuff, and, you know, I've I, I, I, we, we mainly focus on just the basic write-offs and stuff like that. We've never really looked into it.

Yeah, no, I get it, man. Um, and honestly, that says a lot about your business. That's probably why your business has done so well, is because it sounds like you're— you recognize that it's like, we don't need to get caught up in the weeds of doing all this stuff. It's really just about, let's figure out what's the thing that's going to help us the most and just take action on it. Sound about right?

Yeah, yeah, because like obviously I don't, I don't want to just do stuff if it's not going to help my business.

Yeah, well, let's, uh, we'll keep this pretty quick and easy then. All right, and I just move it forward. I don't know enough about what you're selling to, to even roleplay it. I like have no idea.

Um, what, what other concepts can I help provide for you that, you know, make it easier? I guess.

Well, the problem is, is that there's going to be intricacies in your industry that right around 401s and taxes and that sort of stuff, it's like there's going to be intricacies in there. That's why the business owners don't understand it.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And so there's a few different programs. They say, okay. And then I go in, I ask them that question. They say, we don't have anything. You know, it's like, okay. What's held you back, right?

They're going to give you like another question flow that I came up with here. Um, okay. And so I'm like, hey, so like, what do you have in place right now? It's like reduce what you loan this year. Oh, okay. And like, have you ever looked at that tax bill may actually be this year or not yet? No, not yet. Yeah.

Yeah.

And do you want to pay more taxes or less? Oh yeah. I want to pay less in taxes. Uh, is that better or like, would you?

It's not bad. What if they say it's the accountant though? Uh, I have a feeling that probably a lot of them say that.

Yeah, most of them say, oh yeah, we, we have an accountant.

Do you need to talk to the accountant?

No, not at all. Typically the accountant is just like a, like a knee-jerk thing, and most of the time I just get past that. I'm like, yeah, I mean, aside from your account, I mean, like, have you ever looked at where your tax bill might actually be this year or not? Not really. No, not yet. No, I typically leave it to the end of the year with my accountant. Or yeah, we kind of do quarterly reviews, but we're not really sure.

Okay. Yeah, no big deal. That's, that's how a lot of businesses are. Everything runs through the accountant. Now, are you— because I've typically run a couple different types of businesses. Some business owners are on top of it. They know exactly how much they're going to owe in taxes. They know right where they're at., and some, some of them, they don't— they have like no idea, and they'll just do a year-end meeting with the accountant here coming up soon. Do you know where you guys are at in terms of what you're currently on pace to owe?

Uh, no, not really, if I'm being honest. I'm thinking it's going to be a lot, a lot this year though.

Okay. Yeah, it seems like your business is growing quite a bit based on the payroll, and so that was why we reached out, is because it's looking like it's time to really start thinking about this stuff, you know, at least for, for most successful businesses, they want to start looking into this stuff about now. Have you been looking into it already to start figuring out ways where you're going to be able to save on taxes, or is this the first conversation you've had about it?

No, no, I've never really talked to anyone besides yourself about this.

Well, I'm glad I called you. What's held you back?

Yeah, man. I mean, for me, I, I don't, I don't really know. I've never really talked to anyone about this stuff. And, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of, kind of eye-opening when you mentioned that stuff.

Well, taxes are one of those things that it's like you can't avoid them, right? You have to, you have to work within them. And it's really just about taking advantage of them, right? Because usually with taxes, I'm sure you probably have started to realize this the more the business has grown. Is with taxes, it's not necessarily about avoiding paying taxes. It's about learning how to strategically use the incentives that the government puts out because the government actually doesn't— in my opinion, contrary to what a lot of people say, the government doesn't want you to pay a lot of taxes, but they make the tax rate high. That way you're actually incentivized to use these different programs to save on taxes. You know, so everything tax-wise is generally going to be no cost to you. It's just about figuring out which programs actually are going to help. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay, perfect. And so as we look at it here, tell me a little bit about— tell me a little bit about like retirement plans that you have for your employees. What does that look like?

Oh, we don't, we don't really offer any retirement plans.

Oh really? That's like one of the easiest places you can save on taxes. It doesn't even— it wouldn't even cost you guys' business any money. Um, and usually it helps with like— well, it's because there's tax breaks for it, right? And so, um, and of course when you're a small business, it actually costs quite a bit. The size that your business is now, just based on what I'm seeing here on the payroll side, it actually wouldn't cost you guys any money. And then, you know, you have another employee retention thing. It sounds like you didn't even— you weren't even aware of that.

No, not at all. Not at all. Until, like, you guys reached out to us because we only— we only went through ADP for the payroll. We didn't know there was ways to, like, lower the taxes because that's typically something I set aside for my account.

Well, oddly enough, we've done this before, so you're in the right place. Yeah, the 401., could probably be— it's at least something worth exploring for a business in your situation, uh, just because with the size you guys are at now, um, what, what are you estimating your guys's revenue will be at this year? Just ballpark.

Uh, since it's my first year, I'm guessing around maybe, you know, since it's like me and 5 employees, I'd say around maybe $200K this year.

Yeah, so it wouldn't be anything too crazy to set it up then. Um, And it would help. It does not would, but it does usually help with employee retention if we do set that up. And then I'm like, you see how— do you see how I'm not really asking you that many questions? I'm educating, then question, educating, then question. But you see how the gap is continuing to build?

Okay. Yeah, that's insane. I've tried— I've thought about that same path before, but I never really knew how to do it., and that just opened my eyes.

Happy to help, brother. Go ahead, Jeff.

Yeah.

Hey, Caden, how's it going, man?

What's going on, man? Going pretty good.

Good, good. Well, just a couple quick questions. So I'm on this marriage offer, helps Christian men repair their marriages.

Dude, I love it.

Let's go.

Yeah, man. So it's pretty dope. Um, call volume is kind of low, so I've been doing a ton of outbound. In fact, I've closed a few outbound. It's kind of like a tripwire deal. Where they'll pay $27 and it says like, it sells them the dream, right? Hey, you'll be able to save your marriage with this. Psych! $97. Hey, actually $500. So sometimes, half the time they're like, hey, I just feel like this is a sales thing. Other times they're willing to talk. So I'm just wondering what should be my cadence with, um, approaching these calls, like the outbound.

Yeah, your cadence in terms of how much you call them, or how do you mean?

Oh, uh, great question. So I mean, like when I, when I do get ahold of them, like I see they just opted in, they bought this $27 or $97 deal and then like now trying to pitch them on, hey, you're gonna actually need like more hands-on help. So that's gonna be like, and then the, the price ranges from like $3K to $10K.

Um, okay. Um, number one, keep it like fairly casual in the beginning of the conversation. You want to, you obviously wanna make it all about them and why they bought the product. Right. And so you almost want to treat it like it's a— almost like it's just like an introduction to the program. Like, that's what you guys do with everybody, right? And so the— I'm guessing the $27 is like some sort of like exercise or booklet or something like that.

Yeah, like a PDF. And that's the thing, sometimes they think they're getting a physical book, so they're disappointed when it's a PDF.

Yeah, it's Christian men looking to improve their marriage.

Yeah, right.

Oh, okay. Um, ring ring.

Uh, hello?

Hey Jeff.

Yep.

Hey Jeff. Yeah, it's just Caden, uh, just over here with XYZ Company. It looks like you recently had purchased our— it was just a few minutes ago— purchased the, the, the book for Christian men on, on your marriage. Is that right? Ring a bell?

Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just got it.

Okay, perfect. No, we just like to reach out to everybody and just make sure you have everything that that, you know, you need and make sure that we can, you know, point you down the right path. Uh, what caught your attention? What made you even want to get it in the first place?

Oh, you know, just having some, some issues and just, um, you're just seeing if this could help.

Yeah, no, I totally get that. Um, that's exactly how I found the company myself. I don't, I don't know about you, I, I grew up very religious My wife didn't. But I always grew up in a Christian faith. And, you know, we went to, we went to church every Sunday, and I was always really close to God. And, you know, my wife, it took her a little bit longer to get there. And, you know, it wasn't like there was anything crazy with our marriage when, when I had gotten the PDF, like, I felt like, compared to most people, I actually felt like we had a pretty good marriage. But I knew it could be I just knew it could be better. Yeah. You know, and it was really helpful for me. Has there been anything specific like that you were wanting to work on and you were hoping this would help with or just kind of broadly help with better communication and help you guys' marriage?

Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like we're just drifting apart and— Yeah.

Yeah. No. And for whatever it's worth, man, that's normal. It's normal that we see that, that stuff, unfortunately. I mean, it's human nature, right, for us to drift apart. And especially, you know, it's good though, it says a lot about you that you're looking to do something about it, especially rooted in God. Because as you— I'm guessing I don't have to tell you this, but maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. But, you know, if you guys can both find your way back to God and find that, usually that helps with the communication.

Yeah, yeah, 100% agree with that.

How long, how long you guys been married for?

14 years.

10 years. Wow. Uh, just you two, or you got some Rugrats running around?

Yeah, I got 4 of them.

You got 4 of them? Are you guys crazy?

Apparently.

Well, no wonder you're drifting apart. It's hard not to when you have 4 kids. Geez, I— we, we have 2 over here, and, and 2 was enough to make it happen. Um, you know, but it's just about working on it. How old are the kids?

Uh, 9, 7, oh, 4, and, uh, a 3-month-old.

Um, see, you're forgetting their ages already and they're only 3. Yeah, I know. Well, congratulations on the 3-month-old. Uh, boy, girl?

Boy. Yeah, my older boy. Oh, that's—

oh, you have 3 girls. Okay, so you're in a house full of girls.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. Yep, I, I see what's going on here. I'm, I'm guessing— and, and I apologize if I, I, I— hopefully this doesn't offend you or anything. I've just been doing this for a while, um, you know, and I've also been there myself, uh, you know, we, we have 3 kids. And, um, I'm guessing you probably had the first one, you guys stayed pretty close and everything was, was all right, it was just a different life. And then you had 2 things started to change a little bit. But once you add on that 3, that, that 3rd and that 4th, especially because they're all pretty— especially those 2 young ones, they're pretty close in age. I'm guessing that like life has just gotten a little bit more stressful. There's just more to do. And you guys, it's not that you don't want to make time for each other. It's just there's only so much time in the day. And you know, you want to make sure you're being a good parent. And before you know it, it's like you guys are Yeah, you know, you're— you're— maybe before you know it, you're, you're like roommates.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, yeah, that's— well, you're in the right place, man. Yeah, I think that this will, will help you a lot. How long has that been going on for?

Um, since the third one, so 4 or 5 years.

Oh, for— so a decent amount of time. And now, because everybody defines space a little bit differently, like for for— right, you see what I'm doing here? Like, I don't— again, I don't, I don't know your offer, so that's good. Like, I'm keeping it pretty surface level, right? I'm just like, move it forward, move it forward, move it forward. But with your— with what you're doing, Jeff, um, you see I'm just like coming from a place of help right from the beginning, right? Um, and, and be, be— it's Christian men. Uh, and because it's men, you're gonna— if you want them to be vulnerable quickly, you probably will have to be vulnerable.

Oh, okay.

That's right. I mean, I see your picture here. You have 3 beautiful kids. Um, have you and your wife ever gone through something like that?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And so share that, you know. Don't expect them to share it with you if you're not willing to share it with them.

Right, good call.

That's a good point, uh, because like a lot of times they will open right up to you right after. That's like, um, you know, if it's like right in the intro, it's like, well, I just— we, we just call, we want to support everybody as they come on board, really make sure that you have the tools to, to succeed, right? And our, our mission here is just to make sure that You know, we're trying to, we're trying to do things different than the way the world seems to be going now. And so, you know, that's, that's really how I got involved in the program. And then tell them, tell them a little bit about your story, uh, right? You know, but what, what brought you, what made you, you know, what, what made you decide to like get the, get the book or get whatever they got?

Okay, that's good. Yeah, that I've wanted both the pieces. It's huge. Okay, that was the time. Thanks, Caden.

Yeah, yeah, happy to help. All right, guys, well, hopefully this was helpful. Uh, that's pretty cool, actually. I haven't done a coaching call where there's only been a few people on it for a very long time. Uh, it's usually like either a one-on-one or I've got like 40 people on here, so this is a lot of fun. Any, any final thoughts from either of you? Anything else that we want to do?

Yeah, just one last, uh, question, Caden. Really, thank you for, for this. Like, this has brought me so much clarity. I'm gonna sit for the next couple hours and get this part nailed down because like solution awareness, like pitch is fine for me. It's just this part of the script that's always been a problem for me. Um, now my last question is here in, in that part, like why, while I'm educating, should I add like a consequence question at the end or some kind of rationale? It's like really build the urgency in the prospect.

I think should is a dangerous word, right? Because what should you do? It's like you could. Could is a better word than should to me because who decides what you should do? Myself. Yeah, you know, so it's like, should you, should you not? I don't know, but you could, right? Yeah, I think it's more about reading the scenario and getting familiar. To me, what it sounds like, Stephen, uh, this is like the way I think about it. At first you're going to need a script, right? But what, what the, the outcome that you're really looking for when you're brand new and you're getting a script is you need a structure, right? The reason you need a structure is because you're going to be having the same conversation all the time, but it's going to be a little bit different, right? And then once you have a structure and you know what you're looking for out of each stage of the structure, now I can go back through that original script and I have different ways to get the same outcome.

Uh-huh.

Right. And so It's going to be pretty similar regardless of whatever we do, right? It's like we need those confirmation questions. So like for Jeff, for example, Jeff, you're doing outbound, you probably have their email because it's a PDF, so it's got to go to their email. So an easy way you can open it is just confirming their email, right? Hey, hey Jeff, this is just Caden over here from the marriage— the Christian Marriage Academy, whatever, whatever the heck it is. It looks like you'd recently downloaded our PDF. Hopefully that rings a bell and they're going to be like, yeah, what the hell do you want, right? Um, perfect. I just wanted to make sure that that all came through smoothly to you. Uh, looks like we've got the email on file as jeff@gmail.com, is that correct? Yes. Okay, boom, there's my confirmation question. Now I'm in. All right, then I can give them a little bit of a frame and I— now that I let them know what the conversation is going to be about, it's going to be quick and easy and we can move forward. Right, Bradley, it sounds like yours are people more that come to you to— they just finished school, they're looking to go into graduate school, right? And so same thing, you're going to open the conversation, you're probably going to confirm a couple of things that they— you already know. Okay, it looks like you, um, you graduated earlier this year with a major in this and a minor in this, is that correct?

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

And so it like, you see how boom, like it doesn't matter. You guys, all three of you sell completely different things. At the beginning of your call, you're going to do the same thing, which is like something easy, quick to answer, right? I give them a little bit of a frame and then I'm going to start asking some more like logistical questions just to get to know them a little bit better, right? And I've done a lot of sales training. It doesn't matter if it's been NPQ Straight Line Persuasion, you know, even some Grant Cardone stuff. You know, I've trained a lot with Chase Hughes and their program, Cole Gordon. Right. Everybody is doing pretty much the same thing, just a slightly different way.

And one last question here, Caden, because I'm going to work on the script and rewatch this video like 1,000 times. Can I possibly send, send the script back to you to kind of get a green light? Because I really want to sit down and really memorize it this afternoon, this, this weekend. So I come in—

but the time frame that I get back to you will be on my own time frame, uh, you know what I mean, dude?

Anytime. Yeah, I get it, I get it. Um, because obviously you have a family, you have kids and all that. I understand. Um, so, uh, would I have to like wait until next week to get the script confirmed, or How was that?

No stress, bro. Just DM me, we'll figure it out. I'm just telling you, I'm not going to write your whole script for free, brother.

Dude, no worries, man. I'll write it. Um, just, just looking to get some like feedback on it, and then you're like, oh yeah, let's just, just go for it. Ah, really? Thank you, Kaden, for all—

yeah, happy to help. Thanks. Um, or I, I don't know how to say your name, bro, but the dog that you're petting in your picture looks really cute, but you're gonna have to tell me how to say your name. Yuvraj. Yuvraj, how can I help? Dude, first of all, thank you so much for, um, um, placing me on Committed Coaches.

You were my team leader.

I don't know if you remember.

Let's go.

I was there. So I'm pretty new to this Patreon and, um, I'm following you since like Sales Sniper and stuff, long time. And, uh, I, I've just got this offer for sales training. So I just want to ask, like, how do I lower their guards down on the outbound call?

Oh, uh, complicated question. When you're calling salespeople, you just have to know their guard is going to be up. Yeah, that is what it is. Yeah, you can tell stories. Stories work really well, right? Um, to lower the guard, but that's probably more than a 2-minute response, you know. And it all depends on how they're coming in, uh, what your reach-out strategy is, right? What's their average— like, are they brand new to seeing the influencer, or have they been, you know, in the influencer's network for a long time? And there's so many variables there. Right, that, that can factor in. Um, I think the big thing with selling sales training is you just have to be willing to, to ask uncomfortable questions because they know they're in a sales process. You know they're in a sales process. If you don't ask the uncomfortable questions, you're cooked.

That's true. Yeah.

All right, Jeff, real quick.

Yeah, I'll be super quick. I'm just curious in learning more about Sales Sniper. So with it, do you pay for your own leads?

Oh, with Sniper Insurance?

Sorry.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah.

Sniper Insurance. With Sniper Insurance, yes, you pay for your own leads. We decided to do it that route rather than like a captive route where you don't pay for your own leads because it really was about the people that we wanted to work with. Um, you know, and, and both Matt Ryder and I, I think we're both pretty good mentors, but neither of us are great micromanagers, right? And so we wanted to make sure we were working with like people that were more entrepreneurial, wanting, you know, wanting to grow their own business rather than, um, you know, people— and it's not saying anything bad about like that or anything, it's just, you know, we I know I'm not a micromanager. It's not my skill set. So I don't— I'm not gonna put myself in a situation where I have to do it. Yeah. And so, yeah, you pay for your own leads, you do all that stuff, but we have it all, you know, very systemized, very built out. So it's like step by step, you know, but at the same time, like, we meet with you and help make a plan. There's— if you look me up on my socials, there's a link in all my bios. If you just attend that, there's a link for the opportunity call that we do every week. And I just go, I like, I just go over that opportunity in detail. And if it's, if it's a good fit, great. If it's not, like, you know, I've had people jump off before the call's even over, baby. I don't even, I don't know their name or anything, but, you know, if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit.

Okay, cool. But I can go on like your YouTube or anything like that. And then you do a weekly info session?

Yeah, you just better subscribe, brother.

Yeah, no, I'm already subscribed. I just, I haven't seen you post anything in a while, but I'll look for We're getting better at it.

All right, everybody, thanks, man. We'll see you guys next week. It'll be every week at the same time, so maybe we'll get a better turnout.

Maybe we won't. Okay, I have a question about like how this works. So are we supposed to raise our hand? Is that how—

I don't know, there's only been a couple of you guys here, so I've just been letting it rip. Do you have some— do you have a question? I, I could stick on for 7 more minutes.

Okay, well, yeah, I mean, I guess I just— that was I just don't know how the format works.

I mean, uh, but yeah, I guess, um, this is my first session in the group, brother. I don't know how it works. I'm just here to coach people. Okay. Um, and so yeah, typically people will raise their hands, but I don't know what all the other calls are like. Um, you know, or whatever's clever though.

Okay. So you're open to sort of like doing whatever with us?

Okay.

Yeah. I just like to open up the session and let it rip. I think it's pretty fun.

Okay, well, in that case, yeah, if you wouldn't mind like doing a roleplay with me.

Let's do it.

Okay. Um, yeah, so the, like you said, my, the sort of opening of mine is actually quite similar to, I think, what she went with to you, because my, all of my leads are, it's, well, most of my communication is outbound. I get it from marketing, from like Facebook or Instagram ads. Um, and people have basically inquired about wanting to do graduate school. Um, So we just have like their name, their— where they live, and, uh, their contact info. And that's, that's pretty much about it. And then, because people— like I said, that most of our clients are young, but sometimes they're well into their careers and they're in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and they're thinking about another career. So it could be pretty much anyone under the sun. Um, so yeah, do you want to just— would you mind if we just kind of like do that, uh, connection phase?

Yeah, call me.

Okay.

Ring ring.

Uh, hello? Caden, it's Brad. Brad here with Divine Mercy University. I just had time to get back to you here. It looks like you possibly, um, inquired about possibly doing a doctorate in clinical psychology with us. Is that, is that right?

Yeah, yeah, I was just looking at it. I was thinking about it.

Yeah, nice. And how did you actually find us? Where did you find us?

Um, I don't know, on social media somewhere. Sure.

Saw it. Yeah. And I think a lot of people end up, you know, finding us through those mediums. Yeah. So where are you, you know, in life? I mean, are you in a career? Are you in college? Where are you sort of situated with your life right now?

Um, yeah, no, I finished school, um, and graduated in '23, and then I had a hard time finding a job for a minute, actually. And so I got into a little bit better job, um, that was probably like 8 months ago at the beginning of this year.

Yeah.

Um, but now I'm just looking at it and thinking, you know, what, what's the next step from here?

Sure. And, and what kind of job is it exactly?

What kind of job is it usually, Brad? You gotta help me.

It could be anything. It could be anything. I don't know.

Um, right, right now I just— I work at the, um, right, right now I just work at like the, the local hospital. Um, and so it's been, it's been a lot of fun, uh, and I enjoy it, but it's, you know, it's, it's helping people and I, I started to realize I really enjoy that.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And when you were in college, what did you study?

Social work.

Social work.

Okay.

And so this, this job that you're in, it sounds like you're helping people. I mean, do you 100% like what you do?

I want to change that. I know, I know where you— that came from, right? But, uh, I think I can give you a better— I can help you get a better answer from people because what we're really trying to get out of them is like, if I just make it way more simple and we forget about problem awareness, connection, and all of that shit, just like I go even higher level, right? Zoom out another layer. What we're trying to figure out is why did you reach out and why is that important?

Mm-hmm.

Right. And so I would start there with like, I loved the top of it. I love the top of it. Like, hey, this is, you know, this is just Caden with— I don't remember what you said. It looks like you'd recently reached out about possibly looking at whatever with us, continued education with us. Yeah. Um, does it— does that ring a bell? I'm assuming that most of them just say yes and they're open to the conversation.

Totally.

Um, okay, perfect. And what was your next question there?

Oh, and where exactly did you— did you find us?

Yeah, where exactly did you find us? Cool, that's, that's great. Uh, from there I would do a little bit of a frame.

Okay, right.

Okay, okay. Yeah, this— and just so you know, this call is pretty basic, it's pretty quick and easy, just for me to get a better idea of like who you are, where you're coming from, and just to see if it's, you know, something that even would make sense.

Okay.

They're going to say, okay. So I guess tell me a little bit more. What, what made you like, like what made you even want to reach out to us? What made you decide to, to put in the inquiry in the first place? Did you ask that?

Um, no, not exactly that.

No, because that brings me back to the beginning, right? Like, I want to come back to the beginning of that initial thought of what was going through their head when they filled out that form. What's been going on in their life that they're like— because a lot of times what's going to happen is all those questions you just asked me, they're going to answer. They're gonna say, well, yeah, I, I've been thinking about it for a while. I finished school a couple years ago, and I went to school for social work, and so I'm a social worker at the hospital, and I, I enjoy it. I like my job. I've been, you know, but the pay isn't what I thought it would be, and what I'm realizing more is the social work that I'm doing at the hospital, a lot of times I'm talking to people when it's already too late. And, and so I'm kind of thinking about potentially going back to school to get, you know, my, my master's or a doctorate and, and help people more on the front end in like a therapy role rather than as a social worker. And now everything that you just asked, all four of those questions are answered, right?

Yeah, yeah. Um, so our program is, uh, you guys are just talking about Christianity. Our program is actually a Catholic and a Christian school. So one of the reasons why people, a lot of people end up going with us is because of that. I guess it's a different, 'cause like most psychology is pretty secular, but we bring them, the idea is that we bring them together and that's attractive to a swath of the population. And so one question that I often will ask is like, you know, when you saw that ad, Kate, I mean, what was it about it that caused you to, you know, maybe wanna look into this further? And sometimes they'll say, oh yeah, I mean, I saw there was like a cross and like I'm, I'm Christian myself or I'm Catholic myself and that kind of identifies with me and whatever. Um, and I'll say, oh yeah, fantastic. I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons why I think a lot of people come to us is because of that.

Um, and I would make that identity.

So how would you ask that?

I would just say, yeah, that, that's— I love that you point that out. Right? Because that— not only is that one of the biggest reasons people come to us, but it's— it says a lot about you, right? In a world nowadays where, like, people are getting further and further away from God, and, you know, you, you see how much it helps, and, like, it just says a lot about you.

Yeah.

Were you raised Christian, or was that something that, like, you found on your own?

Oh yeah, no, I was raised— I was raised Christian. And then, but, you know, I— yeah, at some point when I went to college and I kind of started to actually take on my own adult faith, you know, and it became my own and it became really important to me. And so that's why I was thinking about doing, uh, grad school from like a Christian perspective.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we need more people in the world doing that, you know, what the direction things are going. And so when, when you saw that on the ad and you saw that it was God, I guess like what's been— I, I guess just fill me in, like what's going on in your life that aside from just the Christianity that made you want to reach out to us and explore potentially doing further education?

Yeah, well, I mean, I, I, you know, so the, the college I go to is pretty secular, and I knew that I wanted to do something that was like more along the lines of like my own, like closer to my own identity, my own faith. Um, and you know, I've wanted to be a psychologist since I was a kid. You know, I've always been interested in people.

Yeah, and people's problems. What, what drove you wanting to be a psychologist?

Well, because I, I find people really interesting, and, and I think that I wanna— I'm curious about what makes people tick and like why people do the things that they do, right?

And oh my gosh, I love— yes, right? Because a lot of times it's so sad now. I mean, it sounds like we're on the same page already, like, you know, where a lot of people, they look at people and it's just like they just categorize them as like a dumb or something like that. And it's really just like, we're really just a product of, you know, like our environment and our genetics, and it's all about psychology. And, and there's potential in everybody. It's not like people are broken, you know.

Totally. But see, this is why I wanted you guys, because I definitely agree that like genetics and environment are totally important, and I also think that, uh, those things are not determinative, right? That's why the faith thing is so important, right? And we're not just determined by those things. And we can use this, the life of the soul and the spirit, right, to help people, you know, course correct when they're, you know, in a bad place in life. That's exactly why I reached out to you guys, because I think that's— this is the type of program that really speaks to me and my professional aspirations.

That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. I, I am curious, uh, because you said that you've always been that way, I feel like I'm missing something. How did you end up in such a secular school in the first place?

Yeah, well, you know, I, I, my parents were really concerned that, you know, I wouldn't get into like a great career if I didn't go to a prestigious secular school. So, you know, they, they sort of forced me to apply to, you know, all of these whoop-de-doo, you know, places. And so here I am, I'm in a very, uh, you know, where I'm at Georgetown, it's like very secular. And, uh, I, I mean, it's, it's fairly decent, right? But I gotta, I got a good education. But I know that it doesn't— I don't really like identify with a lot of the kind of the spirit of the place. I want a different ethos in my, you know, when I graduate.

Yeah, it's almost like you feel out of— like you're learning, but it's all— it's also like there's probably things that you don't necessarily agree with. You'd feel a little out of place probably at times.

Yeah, exactly. 100%.

Yeah, yeah. Now that, that does make sense. So have you already graduated then? You're still in school?

I'm about to. So I'm a senior now and I'll be graduating. Thank you. I'll be graduating this May. And so I'm thinking about next steps in terms of my career.

Well, let's look at them.

Sounds good.

And we're just moving through it. Yeah, but you see how much— do you see how I based an entire conversation off of that one question in the beginning? I still asked you the same question I mentioned to you because we said the ad thing, right? What attracted you about the ad? You mentioned God. We talked about that for a second. And then I said, okay, aside from like God, what— like, tell me, like, fill me in. What's going on in your life? Like, what made you even reach out to us? Like, what has you considering higher education? In the first place.

Yeah, that's a great follow-up to that. I, um, so I was with NEPQ Pro for a little bit, um, and I had— do you know Adrian Herrera? Yeah. So one of the things this— he told me that he wasn't so keen on having the status frame for outbound. He said it, it can—

he doesn't need to be a status frame. That's why my frames are all short and simple. Like, I'm not, I'm not doing it for status. I'm doing it to give you context. Right, or it's just like, like, okay, yeah, this, this call is pretty quick and easy just to get a better idea of, you know, what, what made you decide to reach out to us in the first place and, you know, kind of what you're looking for, and then we'll go from there.

Okay.

Yeah, because like what I, what I had been doing prior to him is I've been saying like, oh, just, you know, I mean, I'm not even sure I could help, you know, it just depends on where you are now and so on. And too much. Um, what?

It's too much.

Too much. Okay. Yeah. Um, Because like I would just say like, let's see what that gap looks like. Then towards the end of it, without you saying, oh, that's too much for—

just keep it. All you want to do is just keep it casual. Right. And let them know what's coming next. I'm about to ask you questions about why you reached out to us.

Okay.

Right. Like, okay. And a big thing that I'm doing on outbound is I want, I don't want them to feel like it's going to take forever because they weren't expecting the call.

Right.

Okay. Yeah, this, this call is pretty quick and easy just for us to get a better idea of, you know, what, what she even reached out to us for, kind of what you're looking for, and then we can go from there.

Okay.

It's literally a sentence.

Okay.

And I end it with okay almost every time.

Like, okay.

Yeah, exactly. Because it's, it's, I'm just confirming. It's like a confirmation question, but it's not like, would that, would that help you? Would that possibly help you? Not that I don't think there's a time and a place for that. In my experience, people tend to get a little too soft. And then the pro— like, it feels weird to the prospect because you're not, you're not leading them and you're not, you know, and, and like, like you are somebody of faith. And so you understand that most people have a lot of anxiety. They have a lot of baggage that they're carrying around. And it's not that you want to lead them in some sense of the word of like, you know, you're blasphemy, you know, it's just like, you're just literally, they don't know what the conversation is that you're about to have and you do.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And so you should be leading them through that.

Yeah. So like, here's another thing that sometimes will happen is they actually won't go to the faith side. They'll say something like, well, I looked you guys up on the APA, what APA, like the American Psychological Association. Sure. Um, which is like totally secular, like, organization. And some of our— I would say maybe like a third, a quarter or a third of our clients are not particularly Christian. Um, but yeah, yeah, it's fine. Um, and so that won't come up initially. I'll say like, you know, what was it about the ad that, you know, made you maybe want to look into us further? And they'll say, oh, like, it was the APA. I found you guys. I want a good APA school. I don't want to deal with anything that's not accredited. I want like good science and blah blah blah.

Um, you're telling me you don't want to go to some shitty school that's Accredited.

Well, because, because, so that's a great one, that's a great frame, because like sometimes I'll say, well, you know, kudos to you, because like, you know, you'd be surprised, a lot of people will go to these online schools that are not accredited, and surprise, surprise, they finish and then they can't get a license. It's a huge brouhaha, it's just tragic. And but you're not like one of those people. I mean, you know what you're doing, good for you. Um, and then Adrian, what's going on in you?

And then right there, what's going on in your life? Like, fill me in, what What's going on that made you want to reach out to us in the first place?

Yeah, that's a great question.

Kicks us off.

And then what Adrian was saying in situation is if the person doesn't disclose immediately that they're religious or they discover that we're a religious school or whatever, you might want to bring that up in the situation and say, hey, like, do you know, do you come from any particular like faith or religious tradition? Because he was saying that like because we sell a particular type of a program that is based on that, um, they— some, some people are like, like you were saying, they're kind of private and they're reticent about, you know, talking about it, and they won't until you specifically ask them. And so, and sometimes they'll, they'll come out with, oh yeah, yeah, like, I'm, I'm Catholic or Christian or whatever, or they might say, well, like, you know, I'm seeking, but I'm open to like a Catholic school or Christian school or something like that. That way at least it's on the table and I know the kind of like avatar that, that, um, I think it's just like, I don't think—

here's the hard part is there's no right answer to the question. And the right answer depends on the context of where you're currently at. Right. Because the way I would do it, I'm flowing. But I know what I need, right? And I think that you probably know your offer well enough that you know what you need. And so you probably have a good idea of the things that you need out of situation, but I don't need to have them— it doesn't need to be rigid, right? If I just ask them, like, fill me in on your life, like, what's going on in your life that caused you to reach out to us right now, right? And they're going to tell you pretty much all of those situation questions. Almost guaranteed. Uh, yeah, they're probably going to tell you what they're doing for work, why they don't like it, uh, right? Like, I'm assuming they're probably going to open up quite a bit right there.

It depends on— it just depends on the person. Like, some people do do exactly that, and then others are very like cards close to the chest. They're super Type A. They want you to disclose and spill your guts and tell them everything about your program. And so like, I have to prod a little bit. Like, I'll have to say like, okay, like, you know, Cause another thing Adrian mentioned was like, you, it's because this is an on-campus, like not online, in-person program. They have to come here. And so he said, you really do need to know like whether they're married, do they have kids and so on, because that can, like, those are big factors, like in terms of next steps.

So you just said—

Just be, I'll ask you that question and you just be the surface level, like with whatever they would say. Okay. Um, so I guess fill me in, like, what's going on in your life? Uh, what, what made you decide to reach out to us and what has you exploring potentially more education?

Well, yeah, so, um, I have been a master's level counselor for the past 10 years and I'm just thinking about like, you know, what, what I should do next is that, you know, I, I don't know if I have enough knowledge and abilities to really help people with just a master's degree.

Okay, but you've been doing it for 10 years. I'm gonna assume that you've helped some people in there. What, what's making— what, like, what's coming up? What's going on?

Well, you know, I— the thing is, is that there's this, um, executive director position that I, I've wanted for a long time and I haven't been able to get because they want someone with a doctorate. And even though I do all the time— yeah, and even though I, I'm able to do all the things that they're able to do, I just don't get I don't get the money for it. I don't get the position for it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how that works sometimes. Like you just, you need sometimes to have the doctorate to be able to move up like that. And so you said you've been with them for 10 years and you're a master counselor, right? And so overall, to me, it sounds like it's going pretty well. Is it, is it just like that we want to get the promotion or is there, is there other stuff that you're looking to get out of it?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I just want to get this promotion. I want to make that money. And it just historically, they, they don't— they haven't really hired people with just master's degrees.

So yeah.

Okay. Well, that makes perfect sense. Well, if it would make sense here, what I'd like to do is kind of— I'll tell you a little bit more about us and kind of how we work and ask you some questions about, you know, exactly, you know, just get to know you a little bit better.

What?

You know, are you single? Do you have a family? What does work look like a little bit more in depth? And then we can go from there.

Okay, makes sense. Yeah, that's fine. Okay, I mean, I, I'm, I'm married. I've got a wife and I've got a bunch of kids that are like—

Slow down, you're way ahead of me. You're way ahead of me. I like you though. Uh, you seem very, you seem very direct and to the point, like you just want to get down to business.

Absolutely.

Okay, yeah, that, that certainly makes it easier. I, I'll try not to give you too much fluff. Okay, I warn you, um, one thing that is a little bit different about our program than most programs is we try to get to know people as much as we can, of course, just to make sure they're going to be a good fit for the program. Because part of the reason we have good reviews— I'm sure— I'm guessing that you probably have already looked at our reviews. Part of the reason those look so good is because we try to make sure that we just don't get the wrong, like, We just want to make sure we get the right people that are actually going to enjoy our program into the program in the first place. You know what I mean? Um, and so how— you said you were married, you have a few kids. How long you guys been married?

Uh, 25 years.

You see how like the energy is totally different in the call now? Like there's no way you can keep doing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this is— I had this very conversation with this woman 2 days ago and she was in this exact situation I'm describing and she wanted this, this executive director position and like it was— the conversation went very well, but then at the end I got every objection in the book. Like, I got cost, I got partner, I got, um, location, moving.

And that just means that the real objection is that she's nervous, right? Um, pretty much all of your objections are going to boil down to 3 things. Either they have to believe in you, they have to believe in the product or program, and they have to believe in themselves. If they're giving you all of those objections at the end, they don't believe in one, maybe more than one of those things. But a lot of times it's the belief in themselves.

Hmm.

Right. And so how do we create belief in themselves? We have to get to know them a little bit so that we can make it a little bit more personal. How do we create belief in the program? We tie the program to them, make it personal. Right, which is then going to lead to them trusting us. But a lot of them trusting us is going to be how we show up and how we deliver it, right? And so, but I wouldn't stress about it too much. Like, if it's a one-off, it doesn't happen to you very often, don't stress about it.

Yeah, exactly. And she's not the typical kind of client. It's just a tough one.

So, all right guys, I gotta jump off. Thanks, kid. 15 minutes over. Uh, I'll be on next week, same time though, uh, 1 PM Mountain, 3 PM EST. So schedule it in, guys. All right, later.

Thank you.