I had $0 in my bank... then built multiple 8-figure companies

Nobody can outsell me. It's very difficult to. I sell a lot of stuff. The art of being good at sales, and there's the art of making sales, and they're different things. I was probably selling at that point, realistically, without exaggerating, 16 hours a day. I scaled it back and then grew it back up again. I think we grew it up to like probably 35. We went from like 0 to 10 and then like to 50. That didn't take more than four or five months. And then it was like 100 probably a couple months after that. We were at two and a half million within two years. I'm the best version of myself in the worst possible scenarios. That gives me a sense of comfort. There's nothing I can't handle. If you try and fix multiple things at once, you'll never learn which one actually did it. So you have to have the discipline of only fixing one thing, knowing that 10 are broken.

How did you start and build sales sniper that company?

So sales Sniper, you know, as most things, it was sort of a happenstance, to be honest. I don't. I sort of didn't really go into it with, with that idea. When I left, I was part owner in a, like, chain of gyms called Result Based Training guy was the face of it, called Travis Jones. And it was like 18 small group training studios. And so I had my own small group training studio in Sydney in Bondi, which is actually still running with my former business partner. And then I, and then I, like, we opened up another one with, with Travis in Sydney. And then what we did is so I had one RBT and then Travis had a bunch, and then there was a few other owners that had like. And Travis owned like half of each one. Right. And so, and then from there, like, we sort of all came together. Everyone put all their gyms into one big company and then the goal was like, pull the profit and grow the businesses, you know. And so I sort of did. Did that for a couple of years and I, I became sort of just like the default kind of like I was an owner and I ran two of the gyms and I was like the sales guy for like a bunch of the openings. And so. And then like, I sort of became the sales guy because I was sort of like the top salesperson. I wasn't very good, but like, we didn't really have much of a choice. We had, we had. We would get 500 leads a month, which was name, email, phone number, and then we had to produce 200 sales. You know, and so that was the economics of it. And so we sort of had to do that. And then we would do that and that was how we opened the gym. And then we would get another. What if we do. We did 500 to get 200 and then we would do like 300 to get 100. 300 leads to get 100 sales. Because we're doing like four week challenges. And so, like, I just, I was just like full time selling essentially. And then in between sales, I would go out and service the clients and do group sessions of that. And so I got really unhappy with how the, with how that business was being run. They. They wanted to open up a bunch of gyms at the same time. And I said, that's a. I don't think that's a good idea. And I had previously stated a few times like, oh, I don't like the way certain things are happening. And every time it was like, I was like, I think this will happen. And it would happen. And then I would say, okay, next time, listen to me. And then they would go, yep. And it was all like a voting system. And then the last time exactly what I said would happen happened. And I was like, okay, guys, I'm fucking out of here. So I just literally like dissolved with my equity. Like, I was like, I'm out. And so, like went back to my other gym that I still owned and that I was still business partners with him because me and him had gone into RBT together. So I ran that side and he ran the Bondi side. And then I'd sort of. I'd not been involved directly in that, but we were still partners in both the ventures and he wasn't involved in the other side for maybe like two years. I hadn't even like really needed to step in the gym. And so I came back and he's like, oh, man. Like, you know, I've been running it for a while without you, so I don't really need you anymore. And I said, oh, man, I've gotten pretty decent at sales. Like, I can just be the sales guy. Like, I don't need to. You can run the thing and just make me the sales guy. I'll take my dividends and equity and shit. He said no. And so he basically said like, you know this and he's, he's a nice guy. He. There was, I think someone was in his ear, but, you know, basically said, well, I haven't signed a new lease, so if you do come back, like, I'm done. And I was like, all right, so we negotiated like a buyout and then, you know, I was sitting there, it was pretty shit. It wasn't much money, but I was like, okay, well, what can I do now? Because, like, I thought I was going to do all this stuff. I'd spent all these years building gyms and now like just sort of came back and got blindsided, to be honest. And my wife was like eight months pregnant with our second at the time. And so I had like no money, like none, zero. Like I'm talking, like, not enough to pay rent, right? And so I was like, all right, well, I'm pretty decent at selling. So what I did is I like called everyone that I knew because I've been running gyms for a long time. And so I knew a lot of people that had similar gyms. And I was like, hey, I'll be your sales guy. Because the hardest thing was like the balance between sales and fulfillment and, you know, like, doing the mar. Doing. Doing everything. I was like, I'll be your sales guy. I think it was $375 a week base. And then like 22 bucks a sale or something like that. I was charging for like a. For like a. Usually I was selling like a six week, for like 700 bucks type thing, right? And I would just sell it over the phone and I would take payment over the phone. And that's like, was my sort of skill set. Whereas most people had them go into the gym and so like. But there was a drop off, so I just didn't see the point. And so, yeah, so I did that and I ended up working with like a few different gyms at the same time. And then like, kind of word got out about that and then the. Sorry, I'm just recovering from a bit of a flu. So like, I ended up with like five gyms, all in Australia that I was kind of doing the sales for. And then I was like, oh, okay. So like, I was making probably like I was making more money than what I probably ever had, to be honest. I was probably making like 10 grand a month at that stage. And then I was like, oh, this has gone pretty well. This is kind of an interesting thing. Like, what am I? And I was like, oh, I think this is like a sales agency, you know, type thing. I don't really know what it was. And then. And then from there, like the marketers for the gyms reached out to me and like, ended up just like flooding me with referrals. Flooding me like, I'm like an, like an astronomical Amount of referrals, like hundreds. And so I just sort of like started picking the gyms that I could handle and then like trying to get people on board and you know, like, it was, it was interesting. I grew to like 50 gyms really quickly and then it was like too much and then I had to fire like 30 of them. It was just, it was too hard. And like, what do you think, sales.

Guys, what do you think happened there? I was gonna say, yeah, what do you think happened there to cause you to have to. I mean, I know you scaled very quickly. 50's a, you know, fuckload very quickly. What was the catalyst of having to like scale back so quickly?

It was just like, it didn't have any. It was just like trying to replicate me, you know. And so like, there really isn't really any like, any systems or processes. It was like, so like. And like, you know, I didn't know anything about the industry, so I knew nothing about how to call leads. So I had to figure out how to call leads in different countries, right? Because I was like time zone hopping and doing. I was like going like across the world, right? So I could like start at like 5am and then sell to like 10pm, but in the peak times. So I had like a little global chart of like, like 9 to 11am, right, local time. And I could just like go all around like that and then come back to Sydney, you know what I mean? And then go over to Adelaide, then go down to Perth and then like head over to the uk, you know. And so like, I had to figure out all this by myself and I didn't know how to use any CRMs. I'd never used a CRM. And so I kind of to figure it all out, you know, like, he's just like Chrome Extension called Crazy Call, where I would just call leads. And it was like 10. It's like a buck for a phone number or some like that. And I would use Skype and I would. Yeah, yeah, it was like just lots of man. Like I was just selling all day. I was probably selling at that point, realistically, without exaggerating, 16 hours a day. I think I was probably on the phones for 16 hours a day. And then, yeah, just kind of like I scaled it back and then like grew it back up again. I think we grew it up to like probably 35, 40 gyms with like 10 sales guys. Each sales guy would do like three gyms.

And is that still your like the main focus for sales sniper or what did it end up Transitioning to?

No, it's a good question. I. I ended up getting asked by one of the marketing companies guy called Riley. I still have a good relationship from more gym members who's like an Australian guy. And he was like, oh, do you want to like, try selling our marketing services to gyms? And I was like, yeah, I guess it's like a 7,500$, like, marketing package, right? For like three months, whatever it was for gyms. And he was like, how much money do you want for comms? And I was like, I don't know, man. Like, 300 bucks? Like, that seems outrageous. And he was like, I'll give you 400. And I was like, sweet. Meanwhile, another sales guy that was getting like, I think probably well over a thousand. But I said it. I remember I called him a mine. I was like, this idiot's gonna give me 400 bucks to close a deal. This is the stupidest thing ever, right? And So I had 16 sales calls and I closed 15 of them because, like, they were gym and they needed leads. Yeah. And it seemed like it made sense, you know, and like, I spoke gym owner. And so, like, it was really just through, like, I had a good, like, you know, I had a good way of talking to them. I guess it wasn't much. I don't think it was much sales prowess, but. And then from there, like, I started looking. I like, made money and I was like, just made like more money in like a week than I ever have in a month. And I was like, what is this high ticket sales space? So I started googling stuff and I was like, googling Dan Locke and watching videos. And then like a. Like a video came up of like Taylor Welch and he had like a sales mentor. He's actually a friend of mine these days. Was pretty funny. Yeah, they were like, had this $97, 21 day sales challenge. And just before that started, I had started selling for this business coach and it was like 2 grand a sale. It was like a 30k product. It was too good, but it was up front. So it was a really good comms deal, to be honest. Like, and so I was like selling probably like two, two to three a week at that point. I was probably selling right, like hustle, muscle, going hard. I was at the top sales rep in that, like, like in that company. And then sort of did this 21 day sales challenge and then sort of like destroyed everybody. Like, close rate cash collected, like so. And then from there I started like getting a name for myself, I suppose. And then so People were doing gyms and I was doing the high ticket stuff. Okay. My sales guys were doing gyms. And then I was like, I started getting so much, so many people messaging me about like, done for you sales or me being their sales guy, that I was like, okay, well maybe I can transition to this. And so we sort of like got together, me and my business partner at the time, James, and we're like, let's fire the gyms and just go hard in the paint on the high ticket because like, it's 20 sales to make half what we make on one high ticket sale. So then, and then I was like, well, I don't know how we're gonna get clients and, and sales reps. And I was like, I guess I'll just do lots of content. So I just started doing like daily posting on my Facebook videos and, and then just started getting more clients and then more referrals because, like, I was an external sales guy that could come in and sort of I would sell it, right? And then I would teach someone how to sell it from my team and then get them off and then I would go to the next one. So I would come in, sell, establish, boom. So it was like we always had a really good first impression because I was the sales guy. And then I met what level. Throughout that process.

I was gonna ask, what level do you. Were you coming in at like with the companies when you first started? Like, what had they been selling to?

Most of them were like, say like at that stage where the founder wants to stop selling. So 50 to 100k a month type stuff, you know, some of them are way higher. Some of them were like, they had an internal team and they wanted to split test an external team, which I don't, I don't do these days. I don't, I don't. I would never do that. It just doesn't. It's just a bad vibe. Right. But yeah, sort of, you know, and I've had startups, but like, they had money, you know, Gotcha. It's all over the shop. To be honest, I've never been really good at like picking a winner. Okay.

You're just kind of like fingering a bunch of pies kind of thing.

Yeah. Like, I mean, with, with the sales cyber specifically, like with my own business, I know how to pick a winner. But when it comes to like sales sniper, there's no way to know. It's sort of like hiring a sales guy. Like, how do you know they're any good? You can role play with them. But they can still be shit. Do you. I mean, so it's like, yeah, for sure. So. But yeah. And then from there, like, I met Jeremy when I was selling on this offer, this business coaching offer, and Sales Sniper was going. I think by the time I met Jeremy, Sales Sniper was probably doing a couple hundred grand a month. We went from like 0 to 10 and then like to 50. I would say it only took, man, 50k a month. I would say, man, that didn't take more than four or five months. And then it was like a hundred probably a couple months after that. We were at two and a half million within two years. A month. Wow.

And what do you. What do you think caused it to scale so quickly? I mean, especially that first 0 to 50 or 10 to 50k. What do you think allowed you?

I mean, I was yourself and I was just relentless. Very effective salesperson. Like, people could argue that, like, there are more skilled salespeople, like, for sure, whatever. But nobody can outsell me. It's just a fact. Like, it, it's. I mean, like, it's very difficult to, you know, like, when I'm like, I sell a lot. Like, even now, like, these days, I sell a lot of stuff. And so it's just because, like, there's a. There's like the art of being good at sales and there's the art of making sales, and they're different things.

And so can you explain the difference?

Like, there's like, creating, like I tell people all the time, like, create an environment around yourself where, like, the sales are constantly coming to you. Right. But that requires constant activity, you know, so you have to constantly be bringing and working deals constantly, nonstop. And I do that all day, every day. Like, and I have for a long time. And I try and keep really good relationships and I say yes to a lot of things. And so I'm generous with my time to some degree. And then, like, so I end up having good relationships with people. And so I get a lot of referrals. I probably get five to seven referrals a week for different things. Whether it's for, like, coaching. I don't do a lot of coaching, but I'll. I'll coach some business owners, right? Yeah. Like two at a time. I'll kind of do. And then, you know, we have the call center. The big focus is the dialer, which is the software which the call center runs on. Like, that's the big focus. The call center was like a market penetration play. Because nobody cares if I create like a software. Like everyone's like, all right, weirdo. Like, but if I create a call center that will call your leads for you, then people will be interested in that. But the only metrics I ever spoke about was like pickup rates and contact rates and speed to lead and stuff like that. And then the dialer launched. And I'll probably have a thousand seats within the first three months of launching. Like I signed a deal for 327 seats the other day. Like, we'll be one of the fastest growing software companies. Like that hasn't borrowed money probably ever. Like, I would say fastest to fastest to a million dollars arrangement. Like, it'd be pretty hard to beat us on a seat based allocation. Like, not like some crazy expensive software, but like we'll have, I reckon by the end of Q1, like the US Q1, by the end of March, we'll probably have 1500 seats.

What's the plan with that company?

Sell it.

What do you want to take it to?

Sell it? Yeah, sell it for a lot of money.

What do you want to do? You have a number in mind that you want to sell it for?

If I can walk away with 40 million in my account, I'll be very happy. Even 25 would be a number. Like if I could take home 25. Sweet mate. Like people be like, oh, but you could sell it for a billion in two years time. I don't give a mate. Like, I don't know, I don't need a billion dollars. Like, what am I gonna do with a billion dollars? So that would mean we probably have to sell it for 100. I have a business partner who's a great dude and then after taxes and whatnot, you know, sell it for 100 million, which is very doable. I know I can get a business to 10 million and that business can have a 10x rev valuation pretty easily because it's like true SaaS with a service line on top as a back and back sell, which is very profitable and with fast growth and not taking money. And it's not like influencer based. Like we get tons. Like we book five sales calls a day, four to five a day. With zero marketing. Zero. Like we haven't launched ads yet. Our HubSpot's being set up at the moment. Our website got finished like yesterday. Like it's still me and Declan like doing sales copy. Yeah. I mean like we've got nothing. There's like five people in that whole company. It's all product focused. But like we have a really good plan and a great product. Like, Jesus, A good product, like 25 pickup rates. So Cole just signed to come over, so he's bringing his business over. Yeah, Taylor Welch is coming over. Ross Rafino is on our system. Like, it basically like the entire coaching industry will be on that dialer within six to eight months. Because it's. I mean, if you're getting 3% pickup rates and you're making 100K a month, if you get 20 pickup rates, you'll probably make 150 with the same leads because you just. And what, five times the people.

What. What is the cost of the seats on that? Are you having like a minimums are you. Three year, kind of like three seats.

Minimum and it's 250 per month? Yeah, it's. And. And we manage the dial and we actually do like the back end for you. So we have like our own tech stack. Like, I mean it's our own software, but we have a bunch of our own stuff. And then we have like analytics people that look at the analytics and then make tweaks to your campaigns to like tweak and increase pickup rates and shits. And that which is all baked into the seat fee, which is super scalable too. We can scale that up to like 10,000 seats pretty easily because, like, it's like we'll be able to train an AI to do it within like a year, but we just don't have the time to do that right now. But yeah, man, it's pretty dope. It was the biggest issue that I saw in the industry and so I was like, if I can solve that, I'll be a billionaire.

Well, I was going to ask how. How did you go from. I mean, I know we jumped there a little bit, but how'd you go from. With Sales Sniper? You said you were just meeting Jeremy Miner when you were selling that business coaching and you had Sales Sniper kind of running in the background. How did that kind of transition you, I guess to coming into. Well, seventh level to start off.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So me and Jeremy got along really well. We still do. Like, he's a true mentor of mine. Like, the dude infuriates me to no end, but he will always have. He. He gave me the freedom to never have to worry about money. Right. So, like, I'll always like, you know, I don't work with them anymore. Like, I don't work with seventh level. Like, I sold my equity, but I'll always like, look out for that dude. Like he's, you know, because he, he genuinely changed my life and if you want sales training, don't ask me, go to fucking seventh level, right? Like any PQ is the best. It is the best as long as you're not dumb. Like if you're a dumb dumb like a self and you're a self proclaimed dumb dumb, just don't do it like and that's not saying like that's not a bad thing. I'm not saying like that is but if, like if you, if you can't grasp like sort of more, some more complex things then like don't look to, you know, throw everything out the window and go full nape cute. Because I think it's like it's the thinking man's game, right? Like once you figure it out, it is lethal, right? But some people struggle to figure it out. Jimin, like that's just the way and.

When you, when you partnered up with Jeremy, how did that look like, how did that go from you, you know, selling for him?

I'm quite CEO, I'm quite strategic. Like I know that like I can present very well and so if I can get in front of people I, I, I can ask three questions and then they'll approach me, right. If you ask a really good question, you're smart, right? And smart identifies smart. I'm quite intelligent. Like I've been tested, I have an IQ of well over 150. Right. So like I'm quite smart, right. Um, and so like that gives me a distinct advantage and I very open about that. Like my problem solving capabilities are very, very good. And so like and I was given that that's a gift, right? Like I didn't earn that, you know what I mean? So like whatever, I'm quite lucky but I have dyslexia, I have adhd. Like you know, those things kind of all go together, you know, so there's like a bit of a chaos to it. But like I can barely read. Like reading is a struggle but you're.

In sales, you don't need to read.

Right, Exactly. Right, right. Readings for losers and back end people. And so yeah, and so you know I was, I got sales training from Jeremy back when it was like one on one because like the seventh level was a thing but it wasn't a thing. Right. Like it's hard to kind of explain like he'd been trying for a number of years to try and get seventh level off the ground but he's not a business guy, he's a sales phenom. So like, but he has a very expensive lifestyle in the same way that I Do now. I didn't understand it when I met him, right, like. But like my house costs like it's worth about 10 mil, right? So like it's expensive, you know, to live, you know, in work where I live and all that kind of stuff and kids and schools and all that kind of. So I didn't get it at the time when I met him because I remember. Anyway, I'll tell that story in a second. But I did coaching with him. I gave him 80 of all the money I had. It was 50. It was 40 000, right? US and I had like 50, 000 US total. And like I remember he sold me by a dm. I still have all the dms. He sold me by a DM basically with like voice notes. And like I was so nervous that he wasn't going to let me pay him when it came down to like the actual sales call and he made that dude tore me open. I had no chance, like no chance. And I didn't know him from Adam, bro. Like I saw one video with him with Eli and I was friends with Eli Wild and like bought his two thousand dollar course. Bought like the NEPQ 2.0. Like the, like, like the like original one. And I was like this is good, but there are some pieces missing here. Like. And I went through the portal. I still hold the record for the most amount of times going through the portal. Like, like go in there. It's hundreds, hundreds of times I've been through it, right, like, because I can see all the logins and my name is so far above everybody else's. The number two guy is Sean Jones. Another guy, cold caller makes about 150k a month. Really, really solid dude. Cold caller, right. Savage. Everyone learned cold calling. Go to Sean Jones. I think he's one of the coaches at seventh level. Actually does like two sessions a week. Yeah. The reason why they have good coaching, the system that we put in place there was like get people who are extremely. Who we, who we taught and just pay them like an hourly rate to do like two hours a week. So they get paid like a thousand bucks an hour, right. For two sessions a week. So they get paid like 2,000 bucks a week. But like if we paid them any less, they'd. They wouldn't do it. Do you mean? But they do it because it's a favor to us because we taught them. Yeah, I mean like that's sort of like the, the back and forth, you know. So that's why the coaches there are so good. Because they're guys who do it, you know, Whereas, like, it's not like, you know, it's not like pretend pretendees. Like guys who used to sell. Yeah, you know, that was me and Jeremy. We were guys who used to sell. But. But yeah, so I'm losing track. But yeah. So anyway, I did one on one with Jeremy and I sort of. I started like, I asked a couple questions that you could tell. He was like, oh, okay, yeah, you're. You're one of the ones that can figure this out. Like what? Well, one of the questions I asked because he does a lot of inflections and tonality and stuff like that. And I was like, he said like, why is this important to you now though? And I said, okay, did you pause before the now and then emphasize now so you could make that person think time frame so that the answer was more predictable? And he goes, that's exactly why I did it. And he goes, yeah, in all my years of coaching people, you're the only person to figure that out by yourself, right? And he goes like. I go, yeah, makes sense. And he goes, do you want to be my sales guy? Like there and then, just on the spot? Yeah. That was after like our fourth or fifth session, I think. And we'd be going back and forth on voxer. And I was really prepared for my sessions, right? Like, I had like snippets of like little bits of calls and stuff like that. And so, yeah, and so it was really interesting. And yeah, and then I was like, okay, what have you got? And I was still selling on this Australian offer, but I was like, yeah, I can do US times as well. So I could do like a full day Australian, full day us. I was living in Perth, right, Which is like garbage time for us, but like it meant that you could basically do two full time jobs, right? I was like, fuck it. Yeah. And so I went in as a sales guy and they had these marketing people in there and they were like, okay, so it's two weeks before we launch funnels. And I was like, fuck that. I got kids to feed. I. I was like, where are people? And they had started this Facebook group. It had 900 people in it. I reckon that Facebook group now has probably got a couple hundred thousand, right? The Sales Revolution group. And so I was like, sweet, I'll just start farming people. And I had a name in High Ticket already and Jeremy really didn't. And so all the first clients were High Ticket because they were people in my network. I was like, hey, I'm making At that time, like 40, 50 grand a month, right. As a closer, you know, I mean, I was doing daily content. I was doing the whole thing. And so I, I started inviting everybody over to Sales Revolution Group. And like, I was posting on my Facebook and I was saying, like, Jeremy taught me all this stuff, which he did. And so. And then I started growing to like 100 grand a month, like getting like after that, you know, I mean, sort of growing up and up and up as my close rates and show rates will increase from using any PQ and then from there. Yeah, man. Like, so, like the first six months, it was just all high ticket guys, right? Okay. So, yeah, a lot of it was from my network, from Eli Wild's network, right? Because like, they had done stuff together. And then like, that gave us time to like build, to like get Jeremy over full time, have him start the content machine. And then we made the active decision of like, okay, like after, like, I didn't like the deal he had. He had given like a 50 rev share. And I was like, this doesn't seem fair to all these people. So then I came in and I said, hey, man, like, I've got Sales Sniper. Sales Sniper was doing well over a million a month at this point, right? And so I was like, hey, I've got some infrastructure over here. Why don't we borrow some of the infrastructure that I have at Sales Sniper and, you know, we can get all those people out of seventh level, get you over full time, basically pay him 100% of the revenue. Right? But he was doing all the coaching, which is fine, but I wasn't taking my commissions or anything for a while. And I was like, let's just build this thing up. And he offered me 50% of the company. And I said no. I probably should have said yes. I said, I'll take 20.

Why'd you say no?

I just felt like the dude had spent 20 years putting together any PQ. And for me, just because I like, you know, I felt like that's where the value of the company was. And so I said, I'll take 25. I feel like that's a fair, you know, I felt like you spent 20 years and just because I've spent two years getting good at something. But you spent 20 years, like, you know, this is ridiculous. And so anyway, I said that I don't regret it. I would, I would have made. I mean, yeah, I don't regret it, but, yeah. So, you know, and then we kind of went on our way. And then over the course of the years. Like, you know, they both grew at its peak, they were both doing at its peak when they were both, like, they were both around the two, two and a half a month, right? And then like, it just got too big and the money was, there's so much more profit at seventh level that I started to scale down sales sniper and felt seventh sales number never stopped. It just scaled down to where there wasn't 50 accounts.

Because what did it scale down to? What was manageable on the side?

Like 10 now and then I pivoted away from done for you sales entirely and just do like the sales management stuff.

Okay.

Yeah.

So how did that differ from the done for you side?

Like, done for you was like, it's just a complete sales infrastructure from top to bottom. Right. The only problem with that is, like, it ends up being, you know, it ends up being like, for example, like, I had, I had an offer, I got them to 3 million a month from zero in six months. Crypto hot offer, right. I'm not saying it was all me, but we had a phenomenal row. I had a great sales system, but like, you know, you're getting. Charging people like 25%, right? Because it's a complete infrastructure. And there's no base, there's no. There's a ton of risk on behalf of the sales agency, you know, I mean, and then you can't control. So like, you've got all your tech people, your ops people, your finance people are tracking everything. You're paying the reps. You're doing this in the hopes that this guy doesn't fuck you in any way, right? Or, or like shit the bed, the marketing goes down. You have no control over the marketing, right? And so you have a ton of operational risk. And so like, you know, and then the bills get so big. You know, these guys are paying me 500, 600 grand a month. One client at u. S. Right? Yeah. And it's like, they don't want to pay that bill when they can pay their sales guys 10. They can just go through, copy everything I've done, and then replicate it inside Jimmy. And like, I don't mind if they do that, if they tell me, because I'll help them do it. Like, so after some experiences like that, which isn't even like a bad experience. I'm just saying, like, after seeing that happen a bunch of times, I started basically going like, hey, this is what's going to happen. We'll get you to a million dollars a month and you're going to start hating Paying my bill because it's 200 something thousand dollars a month. And no one likes paying anyone $200,000 a month. Right. No matter how good a job they're doing. Right. And so, like, we'll get to that point and then we'll look at staffing your team internally and then we'll manage it and stuff like that. Right. So we'll get a closer in, train them, manage them, take a 5% override. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Like that. And that created a better one. Like with Ryan Sirhant. That's how we did it. A bunch of other people, like, that's how we did it. And then it was like the done for you. It was like, you know, I started saying, like, I reckon it's better for your business if I just come in, set everything up. Stop it. You pay them, right? They're your, your tech. Like, I'll create the system, but it's your tech. They're your reps. Right. And I take a fee of like 7k a month and 5% of revenue. Right.

Is that kind of like the standard that you did?

Yeah, that's what I started doing like a couple years ago because, like, it just started pivoting and it's just way easier, like. And like, there's just way less operational complexity from the sales sniper side. Like, I don't have to manage all the reps because, like, you know, if you have 50 reps, you have to have a couple people just wrangling them. Yeah. Or you end up having like, managers that manage. Managers that manage. And then like, that's where agencies die. Right. Whereas, like, I can do. I can probably. Honestly, man, like, I can do eight sales management clients by myself. Like, it's a breeze. Right? Okay. Like, I know how to do that. That's easy. Right? So like, right now I think we have like, I don't know, like 12, 14, something like that, Sales management clients.

And is that like when you say you do eight to ten of them yourself easily, is that because you've insulated, you put in a sales leader, sales manager, and then you're more dealing with that person. Or is it you're still dealing with that team directly?

Yeah, there's a doer. The doer gets like, I charge like, usually like 5 to 7k a month and like 5% rev or something like that. And the, the doer will get like 2K and 2%. They'll do all the work, but they'll do like three accounts, you know, I mean. Yeah, okay, so they'll make 15, whatever, 20, depending on the size of the accounts, do you mean? And then like. But I can do, you know, part time, I can do 10. Like that's easy. That's really easy. Like, it really is because like they're, they know what they're doing. So I just have to meet with them for like an hour a week. That's it. And I might meet with the business owner. We do projections and I help them, Jamie. So it's like I'm helping the business owner and I help my guy. Or if they have a really good internal sales manager, then like, I'll just use that guy and I'll just take all of it.

Okay. And what, what do you think led you to wanting to like, I know you made the shift from done for you sales into the management side. Well, you said there you had a few people that had kind of not fucked you over, but you've kind of gone through, you've seen the recipe happen time and time, time again. Was there one in particular that you're like, ah, yeah, okay, that, that's done with the agency side for the, done for you.

To be honest, more of it was like the, the people who just. Because it's like a lot of it's comms only, like, they just take forever to do. Or like you get influencers where it's like it's not their main business. Right, okay. Like it's like their side, right? Like a big one was like, was like clickfunnels, right? So I ran Russell Brunson stuff for probably like eight or nine months. Right. For all their mastermind sales, it's not their focus, right? So when it's not their focus, it's very difficult to get the things that you need done to do it properly. And so you're constantly trying to like Band Aid solution, everything. And so like, I literally, they came to me with like, hey, we want you to hit these, these numbers. And I mapped out like exactly what they had to do, right? And this was literally, the conversation was like, was like, okay, so I need this. These exact things I'll do yada, yada, yada, right? Like for like leads. Like, this is if forget the money that you want me to make you, you need to give me this many leads. Oh, sorry. And like none of it was unreasonable. And they're like, okay, well we, we, we, we can't do that right now. And I was like, oh, then I can't hit the number. And they go, oh, we need you to hit the number. I go, but man, Like, I'm not. It's not miracles. Like, I can't produce you more money with less leads. Like, that's just not the way it works, right? And so they just went like, well, I just said like, man, I'm not gonna like, agree to something that this is like after months. And I was like, I can't agree to something that like, is physically impossible because it just makes me look like an idiot. And I was like, it's not realistic on his side. And so I said, like, if you guys want me to hit that number, I can do it, but I need this from you. And then I'll do all this stuff on this side. And I was like, and then we'll be happy days. And they were like, well, we're not going to do that. And I was like, well then, okay, peace be with you. You know, it wasn't a bad thing. It was just like, okay, like, we're done. Yeah. I mean, because like, what is the point? And so like. And it was fine. Like, I understood like what they wanted. It's just like from the numbers that I, that I had and all the, all the like, very detailed projections and where every lead is going, I knew everything. And I had a very efficient system in there that was a lot of hustle. Most like we were doing like 30, 000 dials a month, right? Just trying to like, miracle, right? And again, it's nothing against them, but it wasn't their focus. It's like there this is a nice to have revenue streams. Like, they're not gonna. With their main money earner that earns them, you know, $300 million a year, right, To. To make some extra coaching sales. Like, why would they give a. You know, and it's like, totally fair enough, man. Like, don't, don't mean. Right? And so like it like. But that kind of stuff is pretty common, you know. So like, you know, slow business owners and sometimes like, we just shit the bed. Like, I mean, we've had that where like we just had sales guys that just didn't do and didn't produce like that that's happened for sure, right? And so like, you know, but a lot of the time it's just the business owners like having one lead source and then that lead source goes down and it's like. And because we're comms only, there's no, like, there's no mad rush, right, because they're not paying for it. But if you charge them 15 grand a month, they're going to do it faster. But they'll probably just end up getting rid of you, Jimmy, because they don't want to hold the fee and they don't know how long it's going to take to get back and all that kind of stuff. So that's really. Most of the issues with sales agency come. Comes around those things. So you got to.

What did you see?

One good one.

You know, what were the major things that. When you'd, like, go into a team, right, like when you're doing more, the management side, what are like, the first things that you look at that you'd break down to get those quick wins?

A lot of the time, I mean, there's. You got to have a look at the stats and say, what are the needle movers like at the moment? I put them straight into my dialer, like, because I can. I can get your lead to set from 5% to 20% almost immediately just because you have a high pickup rate. Right. You know, so that's a really fast one. But then you look at, like, show rates, you look at close rates. I very rarely touch, like, the close rates at all for even like the first two months, three months, like, don't even touch the scripts or anything. It seems like it's like, it's just kind of wasted time a lot of the time. So just have a look at, like, what are like the process things that we can fix that don't involve skill, you know, I mean, break up the sales team. So it's like, you know, I'd put like, lead routing in, like, straight away. The best guys get the best calls, you know, I mean, like, straight away. And then focus on, like, speed to lead lead to set lead routing. Those are probably the things that I think probably move the needle the biggest. And you can do them in the background, you know. Okay. And then just get rid of deadwood. Like lazy reps, like inbound, only closer guys who are like, I'm special. It's like, you're not. You know, I. I've got a hundred of you. I've got 100 of you at the ready, like, you're not special. And if you think you are, that, that's a problem, you know?

Yeah.

So it's like, unless you're closing like 50% plus, like, you're. You're not special. You know what I mean? So. And getting rid of those people quickly because there's tons of attitude out there with people who are like, oh, like, protect your time. It's like, you don't make any money. Don't protect Your time, Like, I don't.

Your time is worthless.

Yeah, but it's not even that. Your time is obviously very worth to you, but it's not worth much to the company. Like, you know, fuck, man. Like, you know, like, I don't know you from Adam. I'll jump on your podcast for an hour. Do you mean it's like. Like, I make multi seven figures a year personal income. This is probably cost me 10 grand, you know, I mean, like, you. Like, if you look at it that way, right? So it's like, it was like. But like some closer. It doesn't want to fucking speak to a guy because he didn't meet some sort of income threshold that he wouldn't meet. It's madness. It's like, what are you talking about? How are you supposed to get good if you don't talk to people? You know? Like, it's just crazy, man. It's just a bunch of. You know what I mean? Like, and all these people that teach them they live in like, Bali or they live in like, like cheap countries. It's like, you ever wonder why they have to live there? Wonder why the guy is teaching you how to make money? Live in countries where the cost of living is nothing, you know? You know how easy it is to ball out in Ecuador? You know, it's a lot easier than.

Australia, we'll say that.

You know, I mean, like, it just. It's like. And there's nothing against them, but it's just like, I just don't like people telling people stories, you know, it's like, if you want to be good, you have to work really, really hard. And, like, chances are the person who's making the most amount of money on a consistent basis in sales is the person who works the absolute hardest. Like, that's just, you know, common trait, right? And like, you know, people who tell you there's a right way and a wrong way of doing things, it's like, probably not. You know, there's probably a thousand different ways that you could do it. And I'm sure that if they're done well, you probably have a great response either way, you know? Yeah.

What do you like? I guess. What would be your advice now that you've had so much, like, you've built all the teams, you've done all the calls, like, literally probably more than anyone else, I could say. I know. In terms of sales calls, what would you boil it down to? When someone's getting started, what would you want them to do for the first year to be able to put themselves on that success route.

I think, like, you've got to like, you want to put yourself, I think, in like difficult sales environments. Like, you know, I think, you know, selling something really high volume, low ticket, I think high ticket is a really dangerous place to start because, like there's too much pressure, you know, like, it's the reason why I'm so ruthless, like when it comes to like looking at a new team is because like that business owner spent a lot of money on those leads, man. So like, you know, if a sales call costs 200 bucks, right, like a good closer will have a high show rate, right? The show rate has a lot to do with the closer, you know what I mean? Because like there's a ton of things that you can do in order to have a really high show rate. And I prove that this year there was an offer that, that I was managing and it was like a business owner niche. They had nothing to do with me. Like, none of those people would have known who I am. It was totally outside of like. And so they all had like 35% show rates to sales call, right? This is from like, this is from the funnel. And I was like, let me have a look. So I hopped on the calendar. For two weeks I did not have a single no show, right? I just put myself on the rotator. And so as soon as. And I'm way busy than all these people. As soon as I had a sales call book in, I had a notification on my phone, right? I texted them immediately I'd go onto their website based off their email, go onto their website and go, hey man, just had a look through your website so that you booked a call with me about XYZ on XYZ Day. You know, I've got a few questions for you, but is there anything that you need from me to make that a more productive call, mate? Every single one of them showed up. I think I had like two cancellations in two weeks. Every single one showed up because I just was shown to be a professional to take the effort to do the thing. And I was like, how the am I on a rotator like from ads? And I have a hundred percent show, right? And you have 30. I was like, clearly it's a you thing. Guys, stop being so lazy. Oh, you mean, can't we just do the automations? You lazy. God. Disgusting. You know what I mean? And it's not like, it's not me having a rant, it's just like, you know, if that was a dude, if that was A dude in Snipers back in the day and be like, oh, I have to, I have to. I have to put my own scope on. You'd be like, get the out, bro. You just kick him out of the unit. You wouldn't even think twice. You'd be like, oh, I don't need you here, mate. Like, if you think that's too hard. Jesus Christ.

I was gonna say, how much do you. How much do you feel like how you approach sales now and how you, like, run everything comes back from your time in the milit military? Because, I mean, I know we didn't talk on this today, but if you want to just give a quick summary of what you know.

I was, I was a sniper in like a tier Australian Tier 1 Special Operations Group called 2 Commander Regiment. But. But yeah, like, you know, I don't know. To be honest, it's a hard question because man management in the military is like, comically terrible. And most people who stay in the army long enough to be leaders are retarded, right? Like, that's just the truth of it. Like, same as politicians. Like, that's in Australia. In the US it's different because, like, you can just be a politician, but in Australia you have to, like, work your way up to, like, the parliamentary ranks and you have to go from bottom to top. Like, that's how it works, right? So, like, if you have any ounce of brain in you, right, you're gonna get taken by private, right? Like, like, like. Do you live in New South Wales?

No. No, I don't.

Okay, cool. So in New South Wales, we had a phenomenal transport manager, right? The dude revolutionized, made everything ten times better, right? The moment he was up for re election, boom. I think it was Telstra. $5 million a year salary, right? He was like, I'm out. Right? Because he's awesome at his job and it's very obvious, right? And so, like, in the military, it's the same thing. For the most part, you do get your outliers, but most the time, the military, it's a very creatively stifling endeavor. The pay isn't very good, right? And, and, and, and like moving up in the officer rank world, which I wasn't an officer, but an officer world is just about fucking stabbing people in the back and sucking dick, right? Like, you just have to be fucking super nice to people's faces and then stab them in the fucking back because there are only so many, so many positions, right? And so, like, the really good ones just get flanked out by the really shit ones. The really good ones. Leave one of the best examples of that was a guy named Ian Langford. And he basically got ran out of the military. One of the greatest officers ever in the history of the military. And now he runs a think tank, right? Like, he's the head of a think tech. He's a goddamn genius, right? And he had the men rally behind him, right? Which is terrifying for, like, generals. Generals are. They're idiots. They're morons. I'll tell that to their face. I have told that to their face. I have no problem saying that, like, if you have managed to stay in the military for that long, you are worthless. Right. For the most part. There are exceptions to every rule, Right? Sure. But. And like, people can yell at me. I don't care. Right. I know I was in. Right. I saw the point into the spear. It wasn't that pointy, you know, so like, you know, so I don't. I think you get an incredibly bad example of how to manage people and how to manage careers there. Again, I had one guy who I think was phenomenal, whose name. I won't say his name because he's still in. So protect identities and all that kind of bullshit. But I had one guy who was a phenomenal man manager, and he was great. And I think he taught me a lot. I think that the one thing that I figured out is that, like, there's always a solution to the problem, right? Which is, I think in special operations, especially in snipers as a community, it's a problem solving community, right? Because, like, you can't not solve the problem, otherwise you just fucking do die. Like, doesn't make any sense. Yeah. So I think, like, I think what I learned is that, like, I can do really hard things and be okay. And like, I like who I am under extreme stress, you know, so, like, I'm the best version of myself in the worst possible scenarios. And so, like, that gives me a sense of comfort that, like, there's nothing I can't handle. And so like my. Whenever anything bad happens and it sounds like a trope, but I go like, okay, well, something like, what's the. You know, how do we make this into a good. You know, like when catastrophic things happen, how do we make this into a good? And I think, like, that's one of the largest differences between people who succeed in business and people who don't is just like the. You know, instead of saying like, oh, well, you know, this is the obstacle, you say, how can I. Like, if I said to you Liam, how do you make $100,000 in the next two weeks? And you go, oh, well, I can't, because. Or you go, well, if I had to, this is how I would do it. And then you start thinking down that process in that line for long enough to where you go, huh? I mean, give me that. I'm gonna do that crack. You know what I mean? Like, and then you try it, and, like, you learn stuff, and maybe you make 30. It's like, oh, I just made 30 grand in two weeks. You know, I mean, like, you're just like, okay. And. And so, you know, you sort of figure that out. Like, how would I double my sales in three months? Like, how would I.

How would you.

How would you know? I mean, well, you. Everyone's different, right? But, like, you've got to have. You got to identify problems, and then you got to have a strategic plan in order to actually execute on those problems, right? If you try and solve. If you try and fix multiple things at once, you'll never learn which one actually did it. So you have to have the discipline of only fixing one thing, knowing that 10 are broken, right? Which is how the real discipline comes in, right? And so it's like, okay, I know I need to improve in these five areas, but I'm only going to work on this one for the next two weeks. Because if I've got 12 weeks and five things, if I do two weeks on each one, right, then I will, like, solve that problem and then move on, and then I will get a tangible uptick every two weeks, right? You know, and that's kind of how you do it, you know, so you don't adjust your elevation and wind at the same time type thing.

And I guess that really does, like. Do you think that you had that discipline before you went into the military, or do you think the military helped focus in at least that style of problem solving of one thing at a time?

I don't really have an answer. I don't know. You know, I was like, I was the kid in school. Like, I was, like, horrific in school until I got medicated. I was. I. I got on ADHD medication, right? I was like, the kid that was, like, a nuisance in class. Class clown, tons of potential, seems smart when you talk to him, but, like, can't read, right? And then I got on medication, and I immediately became the top of the class for having to study. So I went to, like, the opposite. I went from, like, all of, like, the. The programs into, like, the talented and gifted, right? Like, Basically immediately it was like a switch that happened overnight because I walked into school one day on medication and I could actually hear and I was like, oh. Like the volume of the world was turned down and so I could listen and I have a very good. I had developed a phenomenal audio memory, right, Because I couldn't read for. And so I would just listen. And by listening I could absorb and understand. And so I like didn't do homework. I didn't study for the SATs because I grew up in the states. I nailed them, right. I got into like a bunch of colleges, you know what I mean? And then like just didn't go. I got into Duke. I got into like. Yeah, everywhere I most play, everywhere I applied for. I got in because I had like. I was a saladictorian in my high school. So I had second highest grades. I was the national honor roll society. I was the cap, the brain ball team. I was captain of the football team and I was, I was. Yeah, like got a. Had a really good. Had a really good gpa, like SAT score. And I finished all my high school classes by year 11. So year 12 I was like half days. Yeah, okay, so like I finished. I basically finished all the high school requirement by year 11. But you have to sort of be in year 12 because I wasn't like, I was too young. Like I could have gone to college technically, I think, but like I was still in high school because like I wanted to play football. And I think I had like one credit I had to do. So my last year of high school was really weird. So I had like one class that I had to do and then I had like. Because I had to be there for a certain amount of hours. Otherwise you're considered a truant, right? Because you have to be in school legally. I don't know if it's the same now, but it was back then. And so I had like just all electives, right? I don't know if it's the same way in Australia, but you have electives. Like so I had like a sports administration class. Literally all we did was play fantasy football, fantasy baseball. I had like, like, like dude, I just did electives, like random that you can just do. So I just had back to back electives all day. And then I finished school at like. I think it was like 1:30 every day for my high school. And then I. But I had to stay around because I had football practice, right? So like, okay, I gotcha. I was just chilling around the school, doing my thing. It was weird. It was a weird time. It was fun though I enjoyed high school but yeah so like the answer is like I don't, I don't know like I never really had to try very hard in those scenarios because I was.

Your brain just did it for you.

I was lucky enough to have a brain that allows me to, to absorb information and apply it very quickly which is a, an advantage that is not lost on me you know so it's, it's unfair but I'll take it.

Yeah well I mean there's no point to give it away you can't.

Yeah yeah so yeah but yeah man I do have to run but no of course.

Well Matt, I really appreciate you taking the time and coming on it's been an absolute pleasure and yeah thanks for dropping some different knowledge bombs on us.

No I appreciate it. When's this going to come out so I don't screw up your.