If I Started Sales From Scratch In 2025, I’d Do This

In order to get say 600 bucks commission, you got to get 10% in a $6,000 offer. Your $6,000 for info is a hell of a lot harder to sell than twelve hundred dollars paid monthly for insurance, which protects your family.

Exactly. That, that actually really ruined high Ticket for me, man. Entire time I've ever been on a high ticket sales call, I'm just thinking, man, insurance is so much easier.

From what I can see in the high ticket space specifically, there's an awful lot of like quite skilled sales reps in that niche. But like it's getting harder and harder. Like I remember when I was running seventh, I remember the reps would talk about how is this idiot making 50 grand a month? This guy's making 50, 60, 70 and like it terrible.

Ultimately, in my humble opinion, I've done both. I think Captive is a hell of a lot easier and also just more fun because as, as an agent that's on the phones, you don't have to worry about as much. You know, you're not worrying about expenses and leads and all this. You can just focus on what you're good at and you can just focus on getting good at selling and sell and make a shit ton of money.

Yeah, from, from what I see the, one of the reasons why I wanted to go into this space with you is because from what I can see in the high ticket space specifically, there's an awful lot of like quite skilled sales reps in that, like in that niche. But like it's getting harder and harder, you know what I mean? One of the reasons why dialer I think is doing so well is because it, it feels a, it feels a need of like people really struggling to get a hold of their leads. But also it's a shift from like book a call funnels into like phone numbers because they're so much cheaper to get. Yeah. And so everyone's dialing, dialing, dialing, dialing, dialing. And that's only going to get more prevalent I think, as like, as, as advertising gets harder and harder. And so what that means is that like closers are being paid less because like they're not bringing more to the table. Right. To be perfectly frank. But also like it's just a pure economic just, it's just the way that it has to be and they're getting paid less and they're having to do a bit more and they're finding it harder and harder to close because they're going for lower and lower intent leads. And so now they're going to have to do a longer process in order to kind of get these people to buy. Right. Or they have to like lower their commissions because SDRs have to be brought in. I mean those guys are now working eight hours a day, calling on the phones all day, you know what I mean? And I think, which is viable, but it just means like there's a large amount of closers that I think like the top tier guys will be fine. But if you're not in that top tier, you know what I mean, Then like you're just going to really struggle, you know, because it's just getting harder and harder. Yeah. And so you're not going to make as much money per sale. They're going to start to lead route far more aggressively towards, you know, the top. The DEI days of closing, I think are done. So it's going to be like if you're the Steph Curry of the team, you get all the shots, you know, which is totally fair enough. And so, you know, but in insurance it's something that's far more recession proof and it's something that is far easier to sell, to be honest, just in terms of like the actual. Because the, the product is just, it's more needed, it's more tangible and, and it's, it's more, you know, proven. Right. Like everyone has to have it. It's sort of like having something for compliance reasons whereas like you know, having a, know a sales coaching or whatever, like these things are not requirements, these are nice to haves, not need to haves. And as the economies tighten up, you know, hopefully as of today, right, Big Daddy Trump is back in. Yeah. I mean, and so hopefully that starts to ease a little bit. Right. But you know, it's been tough for a lot of people out there and I think that insurance provides a really good pathway as long as it's done well. Because I, I've seen people try their absolute darndest and really kind of give it a red hot crack but not really be able to make it because like they can only afford to buy really cheap leads. Right. And most people don't know like when you're in an imo, like there's different categories of leads, right. So you've got the age leads, you've got the new leads, you've got like you can sort of, you know, there's a wide, you know, range that you can actually buy from. And so man, it's, it's tough, dude, if you're calling someone, you know, I remember we're doing the role plays a while ago where it's like, you know, three year old mortgage protection lead that has no idea that you're calling, has been called maybe 400 times by other, other, other people, you know, generated bait and switch.

Anyways.

Yeah, he paid 80 cents for the lead and he bought a thousand of them. Yeah, I mean like, and it's like hell, man, like, it's tough sales. And don't get me wrong, if you don't have to make money in the short term, that's a great way to get good. Yep. But if you're trying to provide for your family, that's fucking tough, you know?

Yeah, and yeah, for sure.

And, and like we can provide all the training in the world but like you can't. Like there's just a time factor that people need, you know. So what's the, what's the difference between kind of that and like what we're doing now? Like what are the leads like as they come in? What are the systems like? Like kind of walk me through it.

Yeah, yeah, the, like what we're doing now is significantly different than that, you know, because the leads are really generated based on just giving people free value versus, you know, like, I don't have anything against mortgage protection. I love mortgage protection. I've sold mortgage protection to be clear. But there's no free value up front, you know. Yeah, it's, it's just you're calling them and you know, trying to book them in and then talk about mortgage protection and you just dive in. Whereas when there's free value given up front, you know, it makes it a thousand times easier to get referrals and those start to really grow in insurance, in my opinion. I think that's what most people lack in insurance. I think it's the thing that's talked about the least in insurance is referrals because like it's the one product that everybody needs. Like you just talked about. Why the fuck are we not all asking for referrals?

Like, exactly. More market referrals. Like after a year you shouldn't really even need to buy leads if you sort of keep up with all the people that you sold.

Yeah, like I, I know people that are making seven figures and they don't do any prospecting. Like all of their business comes to them, but they've been doing insurance for, you know, five, six, seven years.

I just ask. So like, you know, 10 people becomes 11 and then, you know, 21 people becomes 22. And you know, I mean it just kind of like you just grow it out there all of a sudden. And you know, you send out your Christmas cards and you put your magnets on the thing and it's like, you know, you give some. You know, you just ask people. Really?

Yeah, that's really all it is.

If you do that consistently, people, you. People don't understand. You find it's not about getting a referral from everybody. It's about finding the super refer. Yeah, that's really what it is. So, like, it might take you 30 sales or 40 sales to get to the super refer, but if every 40 sales, you get one over the course of a year, let's say you get three or four, you know, I mean, and it's like, man, those people send the hordes so many. Like, they smash you with people. They'll send you 30 in a year. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if they're in a mom's group and all of a sudden you get the whole mom's group, you get all the husbands, you get all the wives, then, you know what I mean? And you kind of go through that and that. That's kind of how these things perpetuate and work. If you're kind of working your markets properly.

Yeah, exactly. And like, with what we're doing, it makes getting referrals even easier because most of the leads are generated in some way, shape or form. Helping people set up their will for free, which almost everybody has their will set up. And so you're helping them set up their will for free. It'll hold up in court. A legal document, you know, we're. We're helping them out, explaining the whole thing, really educating them. And then instead of asking like, who else do you need? Who else do you know that needs insurance? It's like, who else do you know that should have their will set up and probably doesn't.

Yeah. And everyone. Yeah. And that's. That's great value. And so, like, it makes it like, it makes actually that person, you know, they're doing their friend a favor. It's not like, oh, yeah. So they're not like they're doing you a favor. It's like, oh, yeah. And I wonder if my brother's got his will set up. Hey, man, do you have your will set up? No. Okay, cool. Hey, I had a guy set it up for free. J. I'll just hook you up with Kaden and he can. And he can just do it for you. Like, oh, really? Yeah. Sweet. Cool. And like, that's the easiest referral of all time. Like, if you can't ask for that, then you're just a. You know, I mean, like. Because that's, like. I don't know how you. You can. The cognitive dissonance required in order to think that that's not a good idea is madness.

And you would have to be so shitty to not sell insurance on the back end of that. It would be ridiculous because you're going over all their finances. And most people have. Don't go over their finances that well. Most people don't know their finances. So you go over them and it's like, hey, it's a bread. It's obvious. It's in their face. Like, if you die, your family is screwed. If you can't sell insurance on the back end of that, that's a good. Maybe you should get a different lead in.

Yeah. To get. It's a good lead in. Those are the conversations that we'll be having over at Sniper Insurance. Right. As a rook. It's gonna be real motivational type type area. Right. You got. So this. Quit. All right. Quit life. Yeah. So, you know, like, so we. We sort of started this. You know, we're doing well. Caden's doing a couple of group calls every week. Right. So that we can kind of bring people in, explain to them what's the process of getting licensed? Like, is that. Is it crazy difficult? Obviously. I live in Australia, so I haven't. I haven't done it. I've been training insurance people for a long time. I've done about a thousand role plays, but I can't sell it. So what's the process?

It's actually nothing crazy. I think the hardest part about it is that it's boring, you know, but the process is you have to do a prerequisite, prerequisite prerequisite course. You know, it's roughly. It's a state ran course. So you know how those goes. They say you need like 30, 35 hours, something like that. But, you know, if you cruise through it, you can get it done in like 20. You know, they don't. They don't actually time it, so you just have to get that prerequisite course and then you have to take the test with the state and it's just boring. It's not hard information. The people that struggle with it the most are just the ones that, you know, they. They don't have the discipline to sit down and. And just intake the boring information.

Yeah. Because it's.

It's far from exciting, but it's easy. Yeah.

And that's sort of. I guess that's kind of like insurance, like, insurance is not exciting, but insurance, like, I think more millionaires are made from insurance in another industry, I think, I think even billionaires, I think. But it's like, like, like insurance is something that's always going to be there. It's always something that I've been super interested in in terms of, like, you know, being involved in from a sales perspective because, like, there is never not a need for it. And the way that insurance is sold in the U.S. it's just, you know, it's just a salesperson selling leads and then from there, like, essentially that they, you know, that's the insurance company, like, delivers it. And because insurance people stay for what is on average like 12 years or something like that, like there's like on average 12 years. So like, they, the insurance company will pay anywhere from like, you know, 50% of the first year up to 60, 70, 80% of the first year, like, whatever it may be, right? And so like that. It sounds like it's outrageous. Yeah, it sounds outrageous until you actually think about it. Insurance companies have taken away the burden of having to do any sales and marketing, which is the biggest and most complex department, right, that has the most amount of compliance, regulation, staff turnover, HR issues, stuff like that. And so what they do is they focus on the actuarial stuff. They focus on actually making sure that they can provide the insurance. And so they've outsourced the whole thing. And that's what this is. And so, like, essentially, it's sort of like, you know, when they sell alarms, right? Jeremy always talks about selling alarms. And it's like, you know, you get paid really well selling alarms because the average alarm client stays for nine years. And so when they, when they go in and do a free install, they're just getting someone to sign a contract saying that they'll do the monitoring. And then they sell it to a monitoring company and get three years commission because the average person stays for nine. And they don't have to do any sales, any marketing. They didn't have to pay for the frigging the actual gear. And so then that alarm company then takes out the gear, right? And then pays the rent. And it's like, so you might get, you know, you, you might get 50% of the first year, you might get 100% of the first year, right? And so, like, that's why it makes sense. And that's why it's like, oh, okay, like that's how you can get paid. You, you, you collect $100 of a $1200 a year premium and you get $600 commission. You're like, what is happening? You know? Yeah, because that's really how it works, right? So if, if you have like an average AP of like AP stands for annual, you have an average AP of like 1200 bucks, someone's gonna pay that monthly. It's like a hundred bucks a month. And from that you would get something like 6 to $800 commission, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That.

That actually really ruined High Ticket for me, man. Cause, you know, like the different things that, that I've done in the High Ticket space, you know, and when I've sold them the entire time I've ever been on a high ticket sales call, I'm just thinking, man, insurance is so much easier. Like, what am I doing here?

Yeah, well, I mean, in order to get, say 600 bucks commission, you got to get 10% in a $6,000 offer. Right? And so like you, $6,000 for info is a hell of a lot harder to sell than twelve hundred dollars paid monthly for insurance, which protects your family.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And it just, it's just so much simpler and more straightforward. And it's the reason why, like, I remember when I was, when I was running seventh, I remember the reps would talk about, how is this idiot making 50 grand a month? Like, we would be training people in insurance and they'd be on 15, 60. Some of them run 90 grand a month. And we'd be listening to them role play. And they're like, they're like, what? Trump's back in. So we can say that word now.

But we can say whatever we want now.

Yeah, exactly. We'll grab by the pussy, the whole thing. Right? So, but like, we just couldn't. We were like, what is happening? Because, like, our reps were way better and not making anywhere near that. Like the top rep at seventh level was making like say 35 or something like that at the time. And it's like a 40 and it's like this guy's making 50, 60, 70, and like, it terrible.

You know what I mean?

And obviously he's not terrible because they have a system and they have, you know, like the only, the only marker of a good salesperson is how many sales they make. Right. But you can be a much better sales rep in a much easier industry.

You know, the vehicle matters.

The vehicle matters a lot, you know, And I think High Ticket has been great and will continue to still be good for people who are really skilled. But I think that Insurance is like, people who are really skilled will just absolutely decimate. You know, there's a guy recently that I've seen on a mutual acquaintance of ours. His name's Ashton, and he had a. He has a guy that's come in and is doing, like. He's doing crazy numbers.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Dylan, I think his name is. I think he's selling like 100 grand. 100 grand a week worth of AP or 100 with some. Some. With some crazy amount. Like, I think that they. He wants to be the first guy to do 200 grand in a week or something like that. Right. With a VP, but the guy just works for 10 hours a day. And that's really the difference? Like.

Yes. His ass off.

Yeah, I mean, like, that's. That's the difference. But you could put that kind of work in. In high ticket and you wouldn't make a fraction of what that dude makes.

Yeah, he just crushes it. Yeah. I talked to Ashton, had me reach out to him at one point because he was getting some objections when I talked to him, and I didn't realize how short of amount of time he had been in insurance and got on the phone with him and it had only been a couple of weeks and he was already doing pretty well. And I just told him. I was like, dude, you don't need to do anything. Like, just don't overcomplicate it. Like, get your feet under you. Just work. Like, work for three, four months. Don't lift your head up. Don't ask any questions. Just shut up and work. And, you know, I say that to a lot of people. Very few people actually do it, but apparently he did it.

Yeah, well, he's on our dialer, so can see him. He's doing it. I can see him. He's getting after it. Actually, a fair few of them are from Ashton's team. I think that they've seen someone just do it and make a shitload of money because that guy's the top producer in that entire giant thing. This is their 4,000 agents for the reason he's number one and he's only been selling for like, four months. Like insane. He's a professional athlete before that. So, like, you know, just work ethic. Right. But the cool thing is with what we're doing is you could do that, but you don't have to pay for any leads and you can just come in and do it. And so, like, you can just go on and do the exact same thing. And, you know, we're going to be trained by me, going to be trained by Kaden. And, and I think the whole point is like, you know, this is a good opportunity for us and a good opportunity for other people who want to be involved in sales, want to be involved with me or you, and then want to get into an industry that's like just plodding along in the background. Never change, never like, you know, never getting crazy, never having these giant slumps, never like having ad accounts go down. You know, I mean, because like there's, it's a, it's a very different ecosystem. It's not like you're relying on the business to generate you leads. Like, that business might have 25 different mechanisms that they use to generate leads, you know, and so, and, and then there's, there's just a lot more infrastructure, There's a lot more certainty behind it, I think. And so, you know, I think it's a really cool opportunity for, for people to be able to come in, get trained and actually, you know, get results and, you know, God forbid, make some money in sales.

Yeah, that's what it's all about. As one of our mutual friends has told me that, you know, yes, I want to get wealthy, but I want, I don't want to get wealthy on other people's failures. And so I think that was one of the big choices for doing this is let's find somewhere where people can, you know, really succeed. And for what it's worth, we need people to come in and work like Dylan.

Right.

Because we can't do the whole thing ourselves. We need some leaders.

We need some people who want to come in and, you know, like, prove themselves and then take some teams, you know.

Yeah.

So that, you know, me and Kaden are pretty, pretty solid at recruiting people. You know, we've only sort of just started this and we've had a lot of applications and stuff come through with very minimal effort. I think it was over a hundred sort of came through. And the bigger it gets then, like, the easier it becomes for everybody, you know, and we want to be, you know, the fastest growing line in this company. And I think that we have an opportunity to do it and we're sort of lucky that we've been afforded a fair few resources and stuff like that that we can use. And I think that, you know, we are, we're in a very good position to be able to ramp the living bejesus out of it and, and have a lot of fun doing it and do trips and team building and all that kind of good Stuff and, you know, just overall just have a good team of people. Like, you know, my. I think, like, when we were talking, the reason why we chose to call it sniper insurance is either that or the Dirty Sanchez. But. And, yeah, both. Both very viable. But in that, like, 2122 period. 2021, 2020 to 2022, sales sniper was like this really cool oddity where like, like the best closers all kind of like amalgamated and like, it was a place where people just wanted to be better and better and better and better, and it attracted the best. Yeah, and a lot of that was because, like, there was a. There was just a culture of, like. No, there was a lot of accountability, like, internally. And then we did a lot of, like, training, but it was really difficult training, you know, and it was like that. That way, you know, and I led most of it. And I'm going to be doing a lot of training for this. And so is Kaden. And Kaden is, you know, like, I would say for. For certain aspects of sales, especially like outbound insurance, obviously, but, like, far superior to me, you know, I do pretty well in the objection handling realm. But I think that, you know, I think that pound for pound, there's not much difference between us. And so, you know, for someone to be able to come in, get trained by us, but then also, like, really, we really want to foster that environment of, of like, savages, just like people that are out there on a mission, on a purpose. We want to be the best of the best agency. And like, you know, when we walk into a room, everyone's like, oh, that's those guys. Right? You know, and. Yeah, exactly. There's three types of people. There's dicks, pussies, and. Right. Which one are you? But, yeah, and like, you know, I actually. I also remember that, like, from when I was in special Operations. Right. Like, you know, I remember. I remember one time we were coming off this big job in northern Afghanistan, like, just sort of just like near the. I think near the border of Pakistan. But, like, I could. I could be wrong. And we just. We'd done a bunch of things and actually blew up a. A petrol station, a gas station. That was. That was a big boom. That was a big boom, right? And we got in this big firefight and it was. It was whole. It was a whole thing. And then we had prisoners come back with us, you know what I mean? And like, you know that we were sending off whatever. And I remember getting off the. Getting off the plane and we're all just like, Covered in shit, blood. You know what I mean? Dirt like that. We're getting off the helicopter. Sorry. And we're sort of like walking out, like, holding these dudes, you know what I mean? And everyone just kind of looking at us going, like, who the fuck is that? You know? And I knew some of the guys, right, and they were like, from, like the regular army. And I was like, what's going on? What's going on? But like, that. That feeling of like, they're like, whoa, who the fuck is that? Like, what have they been doing? You know what I mean? Yeah. And, like, that's a great feeling. And that's, I think, like, that's the kind of feeling we had at Sales Sniper in that sort of peak time when it was like, focus. And it was, you know, this crazy agency that had 60 done for you clients and 100 reps and, you know, this kind of stuff. And I think, like, we can create that again and it'll be a lot of fun. And, you know, it's in an environment where people can succeed and a bunch of people don't have to fail. It's not a casino, right? You can't, like, it's not, you know, it's not crypto. It's not. You can only win if somebody else loses. It's like, this is like a legitimate thing that people can come in, do their thing if they're sick of High Ticket, if they're sick of, you know, just, you know, leads going up and down and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, it's just long term. It's a net good.

Yeah, it's more of a. I bought the, you know, part of the reason I never left insurance to go to High Ticket, even as we've dabbled in High Ticket and. And different things like that. Like, the reason I've always kept my flag in insurance and refused to ever leave is like, bro, I got a family. You know, Like, I got a family. I need a career. Do I want to work forever? No, not really. But do I want to have to worry about ups and downs in the economy and all this other. No, absolutely not. Right?

Like, the economy. The economy pinches you when you're in High Ticket. Like, you. You are the. You're on the coal face because you are, like, the most expendable of things. Like, it's like not buying High Ticket programs and canceling your gym membership. Those are like. Those are like, the two things. Yeah. I mean, and so, like, you just. You just feel it straight away. But I'm super excited about it. What's the best way for people to. To apply, get involved? We'll obviously put links in the description. But you're doing. You're doing two sessions a week, right?

Yeah, two sessions a week. Easiest way to apply, get involved. Just to find one of us on social media, reach out to us. I have a link on my social media that you can book into one of those calls directly from it. So it's the underscore cadence on Instagram. And if you look me up on Facebook, if you are, you know, Matt's age and still on Facebook.

It'S where business is done, my friend.

You could just look Kaden Sanchez, easy to find on there.

Awesome. Awesome. All right, guys. Well, you know, we're going to be doing these weekly. This one is a bit more of like, just kind of telling what we're doing and why we're bringing it back and then all the other ones, you know, we'll be talking about sales, we'll be talking about what's happening in industry. Talking, making fun of people, you know, I mean, and overall having. Having a bit of fun.

But yeah, persuasion, influence. Let's go.

Exactly. Welcome to the show. All right, guys, like, subscribe notification bell, all that kind of good stuff. Go follow Caden on all the appropriate socials. Link will be down in the description to go ahead and book a call and also follow Hayden. So, yeah, we'll see you on the next one.

See you on the next one.