Interview with James Cant, Online fitness GOD

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Good, good, thanks.

No worries. All right, guys, so today, coffee is for closer. So we're going to be talking to James Cant. So we've known James for a little while. He's been doing a few things and starting to blow up. And so I wanted to get him on the podcast today to talk about his program, what he's doing, building a sales team, building a brand new and sort of like, really get into the nitty gritty of, like, how he's done what he's done and all the value that he's giving out there at the moment. And so we've. We've been following you for a while, man. So thanks for coming on the show.

Pleasure to be here.

Yeah, man, thank you.

So, yeah, just want to talk today, like, give us a little bit of an intro as to, I guess, like, what you've been doing, the businesses that you run, and we'll just kind of talk shit as we go.

Yeah, I've been around for ages, like, a long time. I was looking at it like, I coached my first client 10 years ago. I'm only 26. So, yeah, I've been in this game for a long time. But, you know, how much of the story do I need to give? How much should I give?

How much do you want to give, mate? That's the question.

Everything. Everything.

Let's go through and I'll ask you questions as we go.

Yeah, fair enough. Well, like, I started off, you know, wanting to go into medicine, and that was a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible idea, wanting to study medicine because you eat shit for, like, 10 years and then you continue to eat shit for the next 10 years and then the next 10 years after that. So, yeah, so I started off doing that, study medical science because I wasn't. Obviously, I wasn't quite smart enough to get into medicine straight off the bat, so I had to go in the back doorway. But then I got to the end of my degree and I just started. I started coaching a heap of people. I'm a pro bodybuilder as well, so I had a bit of reputation before that, and I had a Stack of people just coming to ask me and my business just blew up. And I remember being, I was like 21, 22. It was like, holy shit, I just made $2,000 this week. Like, this is awesome. People pay me just to train them online. I don't even have to go face to face. They just pay me online. So that's, that's pretty much how I started out. And then we just started scaling from there because I just got a shitload of referrals and that's like where my whole business, my whole mentality towards business goes. And like my big thing in the market. A little bit ranty here, but I'll say it anyway. My big thing in the market at the moment, like, you see with all these fitness business coaches, they're all about get more leads, get more leads, get more leads. I'm like, why the fuck aren't you focusing on just like keeping the clients that you do have? I know guys who like churn through like hundreds and hundreds of leads and they literally don't keep their clients. They keep them on for like a couple of weeks. But that's where like my like whole mentality towards businesses, it's like, yeah, you guys have seen all the time. You probably had people, you've started working, you've stopped working with accounts just because they suck so much and they don't look after their clients.

Yeah, there was a gym that we did sales for in the UK for a while and it was a 300 pound offer for six weeks. It was that like hormozy method. So we were basically doing their sales for them and we did 63 sales in a month. He goes, man, I need more. I said, dude, we're out. I was like, if you can't, like, if you're not making money off us giving you 63 sales, like £300. I was like, mate, you're just, you're just missing the boat. You need to suck at your job. You suck at your job, man. You got to keep these people because they kept literally no one. So, yeah, it's a, it's a pretty frustrating thing. I think one of the things that I sort of really noticed about you, I think we were introduced, I wasn't sure if it was from Gosin or from Jimmy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a small world one once you sort of get into it. But was your like, man, you are the fastest action taker I have ever encountered in my entire life. And that's a lot of people. You are asked to do something and like literally within an hour you're like, yeah, man, I banged out 17 videos. And which one do you, which one do you think is best? And. Yeah, exactly. So like I guess like, you know, like from that, like being as busy as you are and sort of running like, so you have a, your main business is obviously your online coaching for thing and then you do a few other things. Is that right? Like what are the other things?

Yeah, so I had a food prep business that was a fucking nightmare. Don't ever do that, ever. Thank God. And then I run mentoring camps for pts. So we call them mind muscle camps over in Bali. Obviously that one's on hold at the moment. Unfortunately we're shifting them to over the Goldie. They're unreal, like they're so much fun. So it's just like retreats, week long retreats where we take people over and I pretty much teach them like business or I teach them like fitness. We get everyone hitting massive PBS in the gym, you know, heaps of meathead stuff. But then also a fair bit of brain step, this brain stuff as well, which is awesome. I love that. And there's so much great way to.

Leverage your business for a holiday as well. Right?

Yeah. Well, I also happen to spend six months a year in Bali as well. I was meant to fly out yesterday. I was meant to fly out yesterday. That wasn't meant to be back till October. So I was spewing, I wish this coronavirus would fuck off.

But anyway, Newcastle is not the worst beach to be on as opposed to.

Bali anyway, is it?

I've heard a lot of people say that they just feel like they can be more productive in Bali. Is that the reason why you go over there? Is it just more the fact that.

Definitely not. I don't know, maybe it works for them. But I'm like, when I get to Bali, I'm pretty like highly strung, you know what I mean? Oh, I guess you say kind of highly strung. Like, you know what you said before, like whenever you tell me to do something, it's just like, bang, it's done. Like straight away when I get to Bali, I'm like, yeah, man, it's all good, don't worry about it. Everything will happen. So I'm certainly not productive over in Bali.

I would have taken that just. I wouldn't say you're strong at all. I would say you're probably one of the most relaxed we get on a call. You're like, yeah, man, no stress, we'll get that done. But it's done like that I just figured it was that relaxation that makes.

Happen, you know, that must be on the surface, man. Cause my brain's going at a million miles an hour.

Yeah, like. Like, what is it that kind of got you to be like that where you do, like, you just need to get things done immediately. Because, man, like, it's so different than most people I speak to and you know, like, because, like when you're. When your program for, like when it first launched, we did, we did a bit of sales for you. But I mean, it's just. I was astonished, mate, as to how fast it done. Like how fast stuff was done. I was talking to Gosin about it. I was like, I've never encountered someone who doesn't like that. Like, what is it that kind of causes that? Like, if you just got like a need compulsion to get shit done or is it just easier for you to manage the amount of things that you're doing? If you have something that's an urgent task, just get out of the way now.

Yeah, I was talking to Jimmy about this like the other day, dude. So like, I'm 26 now. How long we're gonna work till? Until we start going a little bit loopy and senile. Like 80 something, you know what I mean? So I've only got like 54 years. I've already done half of that in my life. Like, it's going like that. So I don't get the point of why you would wait around and like, just waste time. I just can't understand. It doesn't compute. Like, I don't get like, why you would just not do it because what the fuck else are you doing with your time? Like, I don't have anything else to do with my time. I'm in fucking lockdown at the moment, you know, so there's definitely nothing else that I can do but like. And the other thing too is what are your values? Like, what are you. What do you. What do you hold in high importance? Like, I've got my things I want to do. I want to make sure that like with JCF and with that business that we hit $5,000 new clients. Because I know that at the end of that we're gonna affect. Improve the lives of at least 10,000 people out of that. Because, you know, we improve 5,000 men or women, then pretty much all of them have partners, so there's 10,000. And then on top of that too, their kids are better. So when we make someone's life better, they're a better partner. They're better parents. They have all this massive flow on effect. Exactly, exactly. Every time we help one person, we help. It's fuck, it's not even two people, it's more like five or 10 because that person's life is so much better. So I just think, well, fuck, why would I wait around? Like why don't I just do it? And I mean it probably started from playing high level sport and like doing bodybuilding and whatnot. And then a little bit of the, you know, the army stuff that I did. A lot of discipline. I mean we look at the reasons, like why don't most people act that way? It's probably a better question than why do I act that way. It's like why the fuck for sure, why doesn't everyone act that way? And it's probably because a lot of people aren't, you know, drilled into it. A lot of people look for short term rewards as opposed to long term. When you do bodybuilding, like, it sucks, right? Bodybuilding is shit. I mean you diet for like, for those of you who listening, you don't know much about me. I do. I'm a pro bodybuilder as well. That's where I like started. And yeah, so when I was doing that, I was the guy that went hard. I had this big chip on my shoulder. So I was competing in enhanced comps where everyone else is using steroids and I was natty and I was like 10 years younger than everyone. I had this huge chip on my shoulder. I just want to beat them all, like everyone. And I ended up doing that. But the only way I did it was by making sure that I suffered the most. And I was the one that was like closest to death at the end. Like if you do that, it's a fucking awesome feeling though at the end because when you like finish it and you're like, oh, it's done, thank fuck, I'm all over it. That feeling there is the best thing ever. I'm pretty sure. What's his name? Tim Grover, The Michael Jordan fella. He talks about the same thing. It's not about like getting the cheap thrills and the cheap highs along the way. It's about what you get at the end. And if you have your eyes like focused on that and remember that that reward is a thousand times better than any short term, cheap, shitty reward of watching YouTube. You'll always be motivated, you know what I mean? That's where I think it comes from anyway.

Absolutely. Like, I mean, same thing. I mean like as I was, I Was special operations in the military for about six or seven years. And like, I. The only reason why I want to do that is I saw a picture in a magazine when I was like 19 years old, and it was a guy hanging off a building wearing all black with an MP5 shooting into a building. And I took one down to army recruiting and I was like, how do I be that guy? And they're like, oh, that's a tag sniper. And I was like, okay, how do I be him? And then I just literally just like, was like, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? And I just dedicated everything I did to that one single level of clarity. I think that's what a lot of people don't do. Like, they just don't set goals and they don't give themselves any level of clarity to be able to kind of give themselves something to drive towards. Because everyone's just so fixated on short term reward shit. Like, yeah, like, like over my kettle. Because I'm obviously, I'm a closer, so I drink lots of coffee. Right, Right. So I'm just constantly at the kettle. So we have a vision board which is like personal goals and business goals for me, my wife. And then we have a personal goal for each child. So we're like, okay. And then we have a timeline for that and we put resources towards it, you know, and that. And I think that just, it baffles me that people are like, oh, hey, what are you doing? What are you working on? Oh, just, you know, finishing Game of Thrones. Like, oh, sick, bro. That must be super fulfilling for you.

You're crushing it. So good.

It's not. If you actually watched Game of Thrones.

Yeah, yeah. It's definitely worth it. Yeah. But I think that that's where sales comes in. Right. Because like, you're obviously, I can tell from talking to you, you're probably a natural salesperson right now in your business. It's definitely not the best use of your time because you can outsource that and you can get other people to do it while you focus on the big picture. But I suppose, like, this is kind of a weird question, like, when you started selling your business and selling your online product, was the fact that that wasn't how everybody operated a big sort of, like. Because for me, when I came out of the military and I became a personal trainer, I could not compute why people would let small things get in their way. And I had no empathy, I had no sympathy because I was just spent the last six Years kicking doors in and shooting people. And so I get like, that's a whole different story. But like I just could, I didn't get it and I found it so frustrating and I would get so like angry and tear my hair out that people just did not take action. So like, I guess like when you came up with that, being a young guy, you probably just thought that that's how everybody operates, you know what I mean?

I knew that it wasn't how everyone else operated because I'm like super different from all my friends. Super super different. So, yeah, but like my thing where I still, I still couldn't understand, like, why wouldn't you operate that way? Like, why don't you just do it? Why aren't you success driven? But yeah, it was difficult, like with my first few clients because I'd put them on really fucking massive sessions and sessions and then like really huge diets. Like they'd be eating till I want to vomit or like eating nothing, right? So that was it. And it was hard for me to adapt to that. Does that answer your question properly?

Yeah, for sure. Because I think like I know myself, like I'm, I'm an extremist, right? Like 100%. And it's just sort of like I'm not. I can't change that about me. So I've got to kind of lean into it in a lot of ways. So when I do something like, yeah, like I just signed up to a sales training with a guy called Jeremy Miner, right, Who's Eli's mentor and he was Cole Gordon's mentor, all this kind of stuff. And I, there was one problem that was really pissing me off and like it was people not turning up to a sales call from a triage, which is like a pre qual call. And I was like, why aren't they doing that? I saw one video that he did which explained why that happened. I called him and I paid him 30 grand. Like, I didn't even tell James. I was like, hey, I just signed up to this. She's like, oh, that makes sense. But it was like, that is the solution to the problem. So I could spend six to 12 months trying to figure that out. Over that six months, if 30% of the people that would have shown up don't, and I close 50% of them. That's, that's, you know, that's, that's $250,000 in commissions that I missed out on over, over a 12 month period, you know. So like, to me that just made perfect sense. But to general population, to most people, it seems like that kind of math just doesn't exist in their realm.

I've got a hope that a lot of people stay that way. Sorry, James.

No, I was a bit confusing with both. James. So going back to that, like, as a coach, because I coach a lot of people. You coach a lot of people. Matt coaches a lot of people. I noticed the same thing as you. Like, my friends haven't been in that. We're all on this call because we're all the people that go out, take action and don't let shit get in the way. How do you coach someone to get into that mindset, to switch things so that they go into that headspace where they don't see things the way that successful people do, to get them there as a coach? Because I imagine you get a lot of people that come to you that aren't 100% dedicated to their goals. How do you transition them to want to.

Let's. That's sales, right? I mean, that's like what sales actually is. Leadership, first of all. Yeah, leadership. Yeah. That's what Eli says all the time. Eli Wild, fucking awesome bloke. I just started working with him, too. He's unreal. Phenomenal.

He's going to be on the podcast maybe next week or the week after. I think so, yeah.

Sick. Sick. That's cool. Really good, dude.

He does. He does a lot of our team.

Training, so he trains our team once a week.

Yeah, yeah, we love his stuff. Yeah, yeah.

He was telling me. It was telling me. But yeah, like, he's. His style of, like, of sales is 100% that. Because in the end of the day, as a salesperson, it's in your. The person comes to you with an issue. And let's remember this. Most adults are children in adult bodies, right? Most adults these days, when we don't go through a Rite of passage, we don't go through any sort of, I don't know, real proper graduation, right? We don't go through any sort of thing which turns you or helps you transition from being a boy to a man or from a girl to a woman. We don't have that. And that's why so many people are so stunted and they carry all these fucking problems throughout their whole life and they never do it. And so my way of actually getting them to fix these problems, these glaringly fucking obvious problems which are ruining their lives, ruining their relationships, ruining their ability to succeed in anything. Where I go first is I just find out, like, what are Their values, Like what are their core values? Where do they want to be? And pretty much help them realize that they're not in alignment with those core values at that time. You know, if they're not living in alignment with them, well, no fucking wonder you're not happy, right? No wonder your life sucks because you're so out of integrity and you're so out of alignment with those values. And my whole sales system, everything is just designed around that. Find out what they actually value and then say, well, is this actually the right direction? And I tell all my guys, everyone who closes for us, it's like, I don't fucking care if you like, I don't want you to close people who just shouldn't be closed. Right, exactly. If they're truly there. However, the thing is, I don't think I know a single human in the world that doesn't value being healthy enough to pick up their grandkids when they're 70. Right?

100%.

So that's why it very, very rarely happens that you actually turn some away. But yeah, finding out like their core values, that's the biggest thing. Finding out their core values, what they're living for, what is their whole purpose. Demonstrating how they're so fucking far off that finding out all the habits, the bad habits they have in their life, I think Eli calls them like the 10 clarities. Going through the 10 clarities, right? And finding out all those things and picking up all the dumb stuff that they're doing, like hesitation, inaction, self doubt, all those sorts of things. Self destruct, going through self destruction, sabotage, you know, I'm not worthy of feeling good. All those sorts of things, picking up those objections, drawing them out before they, even before the person gets to use them as an objection, as an, and as an excuse. And then from that just say, look, dude, you fucking. Your whole life is right here. This is the whole reason why you're so unhappy with everything right now. This is the solution to it. Let's get going. That's my way.

Yeah, nice one. And I suppose like just sort of flipping around a little bit with this whole coronavirus happening at the moment. And obviously there's a giant influx of online PTs and gurus out there telling, telling everyone what to do. I suppose as someone who's got an established business, like, what do you think is like the no bullshit outcome that's going to come from this? Like in terms of the fitness industry, like, do you think that things are going to go back to normal? You think that the guys who are trying to go online now are just kind of going to go back to their day, to day one to. Or do you think sort of like it's now changed forever?

My favorite thing are all these new online pts flooding the market. You can tell who's got a mentor and who doesn't. It's quite hilarious because all the ones who hire mentors, they do well. They might smash it, but they do well. And the way that I test this is I see an ad pop up and I'll just follow that person and I'll watch them and I'll check their page transparency and I'll see if they run their ads for one day, three days a week, two weeks or four weeks, and you can tell who's actually got a mentor and who doesn't. There's going to be so many. Facebook must be crushing it right now because there are so many new online pts who are coming on, putting 500 bucks, sometimes even less into Facebook ads and saying, oh fuck, that didn't work. And then just stopping. There's. I see.

Let alone didn't call the lane.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's crazy. I mean, I've seen some like retirement ridiculous ads lately popping up from all these new guys who want to be online. Yeah, that's what I think is gonna happen is we're gonna have continue having people saying, oh yeah, I can do it. It's not that hard to go online. I mean, it's just like being in a gym, right? It's like. Well, no, actually in the gym the leads come to you. So it's really fucking easy online. You've got to make the leads come to you very different. So we're gonna see a lot of that and they're gonna, they're gonna come in, blow a heap of money, go back, you know, with wet pants and no fish. We're gonna see. I feel that gyms are going to have a huge bounce back at the beginning. There are going to be a massive number of them fold. And then I think that after that, yeah, we're going to have a huge bounce back at the beginning because I mean, fuck, I can't wait to go back and list some heavy stuff, right? I'm training a piece of shit bands at the moment. Sure, I'm getting good results, but I just want to have the ego of lifting like 250, 300 kilos on a fucking bar, you know what I mean? So I'm straight back to the gym or I'm going to buy the gym myself. Actually, that's the other thing. I think a lot of people are going to buy home gyms and never go back to a gym. But there is some.

That's a lot of people buying home gyms right now. If you go on to all of like the NC Fitness, white label, Aussie strength, they're all out of stock. Everyone's buying. Yeah, they want garage gyms.

Well, where important. I got a connection with a friend and he can get like everything in. So I'm doing that just my clients because we just found out today. Well, there's news today. News. Who knows what the fucking news says, right? Everything about this coronavirus at the moment is bullshit. But they're saying that the gyms may be out of action until September. I'm like, that's the case. I'm just buying everything. Like I'm getting someone who wants some. So that'll be a heap. But yeah, that's, that's my prediction. I think there are going to be a lot of gyms who'll struggle. I think that the with online coaching is very interesting. Very, very interesting because you've got people at the top. That's where I like to consider myself, people at the top. And then you've got the shit, right? And there's a very, very small amount of cream and there's a very, very big amount of shit and the shit's going to be all fighting it out. I am paying less for an acquisition than that. I'm paying $100 at the moment for a 2 to $4,000 sale that is just like ridiculously cheap.

Phenomenal.

It's crazy. It's fucking crazy. All while building my list and building my audience databases. Like it's unreal. Yeah. So like it's, this is, it's great for me. One thing that's really cool is how much this is like validated, validated online coaching. This has made online coaching bonafide. Can't fuck with it. In the past, there used to be a bit of skepticism associated with it. Now that everyone's had to go do it and like, oh, hey, this isn't that bad. It's now mainstream.

Well, I think, I think the real benefit of online coaching is you can get someone who's a genuine expert at the one thing that you want to get fixed. Like, like tell us a little about jcf. Like I know, I know a bit about it obviously, but I guess like, like where did that come from? Because like your niche is more gut health and sort of stuff like that. So just like run us through like where that, where that all came from.

Yeah. 100%. That's awesome, man. I love talking about this stuff. I'm so like. I originally started off JCF started off like super bodybuilding focused. And then over a while I stopped wanting to deal with so many bodybuilders because I mean, we've all talked to bodybuilders before, they don't have a good reputation and it's for a good reason. Most of the time they're not very nice people. So we moved away from that and started working with like guys who are really fucking awesome. You know, just you guys who want to get in shape, feel awesome, go to the beach, bang a few chicks, that type of thing. And then after that I got ibs and like as I was doing that and that was fucking horrible. That ruined my life. I was super depressed, anxious, blew my business. I was like a nightmare to be with. It was like the worst experience of my life. For those of you who don't know, IBS is irritable bowel syndrome. It's really, really shit. Pun intended. It's terrible, right? Absolutely terrible. And then from there I was like, okay, so it's all well and good to look good and to eat shit all food, like eat low calories and train hard and beast mode all the time, that sort of thing. But in the end of the day you've got to bring it back to your health because if you don't have your health, you have nothing. And that's where we started putting our whole thing that my target market is guys who want to get in shape and look really good permanently. Not your 12 week challenges, not your New Year's resolutions, but people who want to like make a permanent change. That's who we cater towards and that's who we want to work with. Because with those people, we change their fucking life. We change their partner's life, we change their kids life. Every single person around them gets better because this person crushes it so much and they're so freaking happy for it.

They feel good. Not just look good, they feel good. Right?

100%. 100%, yeah.

I think, I think that's a great approach because I think like over the last five years the fitness industry has revolved around 28 day challenges. 12 week challenges. And it has quick fixes and it's been like, and don't get me wrong, I was part of the problem for a long time. I've sold literally thousands of 28 day challenges, you know, but I just, I think what it's done is it's given everyone sort of a bad or a lot of people a bad taste in their mouth about fitness, that it's almost like a bit of a charlatan's industry. And so, and really so like taking a step back and starting to sort of go after things and from a sales perspective, starting to be more honest about the results that people can get and how they can get them and what's it going to take to actually get the result that they want.

Who knew that honesty would sell? Fuck.

I know, right? Yeah, exactly. So, like going to that in terms of like, when did you step out of that sales role for your own business and what was it that prompts you to do it?

So actually first I first stepped out of my sales role. Actually it was about, I think it was three years ago. I hired a great sales guy called Joel and he was really good and then so he ended up stopped working with us and I can't remember why I started taking the sales again. I think there are a few, few little issues in there. I used to not have my business very well systemized, but then more recently when I decided, fuck it, no, I'm going to make JCF absolutely huge, I need to do this. So I hired another guy, about, started training him about three months ago and he went on full time about a month ago and that was the best thing that I've ever done. JP is a fucking legend. Terrific guy. Really, really awesome, awesome bloke. He's a former client. He and his partner, his whole fucking family has been trained by us. Right? So he's that, that talk type of guy. Loves it, lives it, breathes it. But yeah, I took him out of that, took him on and he did that and I went out of the sales role and it was the best thing I ever did because now I can focus purely on getting our brand out there, building it up, scaling it. It is like, honestly, the best thing I ever did was get myself out of the sales role and get someone to actually take it over. I mean, help that. That's the reason why I'm talking with you guys and I'm getting you to, you know, get Marco, your guy Marco to take sales for us because I don't want to be doing more sales calls. But we've got fuckloads of applications like hot leads. I mean, how crazy was it? 50, 50 hot leads booked in who say, I want to spend 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 plus and they're giving us all the pain points. Like that's what we're dealing with at the moment. And I can't just be taking those calls. Right. It's the best thing I ever did was step out of the sales role and get someone else to take it.

You wouldn't be doing this podcast if you were doing the sales course because you simply wouldn't have the time. And Justin's killing it or JP's killing it right now, isn't he? From what I've seen, 65%.

So he's not. It's not where we want to be, but like for the first month of full time, 65%, it's not too bad considering. What's the industry average for most people? Like 30%.

30%, which is terrifying.

Can you imagine closing 30% of all your deals?

Fuck no. No. 30% of scares me. Yeah.

Have nightmares about that.

So.

Yeah, man. So what's the, like, what's the next, like 12 months, three years look like for JCF?

So this year we want to be putting on at least 100 clients a week. At least. That's the, that's, that's that. I probably rather. 200 if I'm honest. I mean, obviously, like. But yeah, we're aiming for a minimum of a hundred and, and ideally 200 clients a week onboarded of which of those the minimum time we want anyone to ever spend with us is six months, preferably closer to a year. Our big thing is on lifetime customer value and customer retention. And the way that we do that is we just make a fucking awesome service. Like just unreal. So that's the other focus is just making sure that our retentions are good. We've had people on for now too. I've coached one blog, he stays with me. I coach like three clients, right. And they're all awesome. I've had one guy for five years now, so if we can get like, you know, 10% of all clients who come with us to stay for five years, that's perfect. I think that we've nailed it. We're nailed it and we're providing a fucking phenomenal service. So that's the goal there. Then at the same time, we're going to scale up Mind Muscle Camps. So this year it's a little bit funky, but next year we want to probably hold one camp every month, so probably end up running 10 or 12 of those. We're going to jack the prices up. So if anyone who's coming this year, the Mind Muscle camp, you're lucky because you got it cheap and you keep that rate for life because we look after everyone who comes to them and then at the same time also scale out the business mentoring side because like, I don't know about you guys, you've probably, you probably worked, you have worked with a heap of business coaches. Incredible amount. There's so many, and you'll know this as well, there are so many shit ones. There are a few good ones, but there are a heap of shit ones. And, and my big bug there with that is there are so many just digital marketers, they're not coaches, they don't know anything about running a fit pro business. They just know how to market and they're the ones that create more shitty. More of the shit that I was talking about in terms of the online pts. If my, if my mission is to make it so that every single person has access to a model of health and a lifestyle which prevents them from having preventable health issues, right? Stops them from getting those preventable health issues. That's what I want to do. I want to spread that around the world. I need to actually coach the people who are going to do that, not the people who are going to feed people into 28 day challenges or any of that crap and know that they're just trying to make 500 grand a year out of it. Yep.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely man.

Just more of a long term picture for your main goal of the changing lives, right? You can do that not only by the classic user but by the people you coach as clients that you serve, right?

100%. Well, I mean like I can do it myself and I can try and coach every single one or I can hire, I can, I can teach, you know, another person to do it and they can coach a hundred and you know, that means that I've effectively coached 100 by that I can coach two people, that's 203 people, 300 and so on.

Teach them how to fish, right?

Yeah.

That's the best thing about selling fitness is you are not selling snake oil, you're not selling a used car, you're selling change and you're selling real things. Which is also why it's, it's, you know, it's, it can be a hard sale. You know, getting, getting people to, to really make a lasting change is something that's difficult in people. And it's, I find a lot of the biggest thing right now that I'm seeing for a lot of online pts is that they just don't have the sales piece one because they're probably, to tell you the truth, not very confident their abilities to Deliver the program, which I think always makes it difficult because they're trying to come on, they're rushing things that they're not really putting in the time for it. And they don't have a lot of experience, you know, selling a program when really they're doing it reluctantly because they're, they really want to be in gym, personal trainers. It's just not going well for anybody. But I think the, the opportunity for you guys at the moment is enormous because the moment that, that starts to normalize and I think Facebook usage is up 40%. Facebook ad cost for like top tier advertisers is down 30%. And so like you. And everyone's at home, so everyone's just sitting back on Facebook. So the guys who have genuine legit advertising campaigns and you have good, not only personal reach, but also good reach on their, like actual pages, like, man, the sky's the limit. So like that, that a hundred clients a week, people are gonna listen to this and freak the fuck out. That's even an option. But it, A hundred percent is. I think, I think you booked out 17 calls in one day for us. So, like, it's definitely, it's definitely, you.

Know, what's, what's your best advice to, as you said, to take those guys that are at that, that lower tier or as you said, the shit, and take them to the top to get to the James can't level so that they are able to deliver a better service one to their clients and the people that they serve. How do they transition to get to that stage, do you think? Like, what would you recommend?

I don't think that anyone who's going to be listening to this podcast is going to be in the shit, because you probably are in the shit. They're the ones who just want to come in for a quick buck and they're not going to bother learning and listening to you guys. That's first of all. But if you are listening to this, I don't consider you in the shit because you're smart enough to listen to these guys. I sincerely mean that. The number one thing is be genuine, right? Everybody knows when you're genuine or when you're not genuine. We see right through it. Social media is just about transparency. And if you're not genuine, then you're screwed. You're gonna have a really tough time. You're gonna get called out, you're gonna get walked all over. People are brutal these days. All right, shit, I've been called out and I haven't even done anything wrong. Before, you know, like, how dare you? Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? People are brutal these days. If you're not, if you're not, if you're not in line with integrity, if you're not truthful, if you're not honest, then you bug it. The next thing, hire a fucking mentor. Get rid of your ego. I talk to all these pts and they think that they can do it online. I'm like, oh, yeah, we'll see you in two weeks. Once you fail, then you blame all your ad budget, right? Get a mentor, learn how to do it properly. I mean, you don't have to use me, right? I'm not just going to pitch myself all the time. I clearly know it works. But get a mentor, get someone who's actually good and don't go to one of those scummy digital marketers, you know, I can't stand them, who are selling these courses and they've never done it before. Get someone who's actually in the, in the trenches. Gosin's great. He's fantastic. Working with him. Andrew Gosin, great guy. I work with him, I still work with him, I still chat with him every week. I don't really need it now, but it's just good to have someone who's so experienced and just what was that?

An idea exchange rather than coaching?

100%. But yeah, if you're, if you're in that level where you meet tier and you want to get to the top tier, what you need to be amazing at is, number one, genuine, number two, your core message, your core values, and actually understand why the fuck you're doing this. Because you will be very, very lost. If you're trying to make a shitload of money but you don't have any substance behind it, it'll be really, really tough for you. That's actually probably the main reason I think people fail because they don't know why they're doing it. They don't have any real purpose or motivation. And when you get to your hundredth hour of working that week, you're like, oh, why am I doing this? I'm just gonna take all next week off.

Absolutely. And it seems to be like the big thing at the moment is everyone's transitioning to really doing like relationship building using social media instead of how it used to be, which is just like throw ads out, get leads, make calls, book them in, make sales. The big transition at the moment seems to be like, use your social media, use your page, but also use your personal page, actually create conversations with People and then take them through a process. And that's working for selling fitness, it's working for selling business coaching, it's working for selling digital marketing. It's that real relationship building. Because I think people like I started doing mentoring with Jeremy Miner, a lot of stuff he talks about is like the context of a salesperson. So like all those sleazy guys, like you know, Glenn Glary again, Ross and all that kind of stuff, which just, it's a great movie and hilarious to watch and Wolf of Wall street, but my God, I mean, that's the stuff that ruined it for salespeople. They destroyed all trust by intentionally fucking people over. And so by engaging people and actually having a, like having a relationship of value before you try and get money off someone seems to be the way to do it these days. And I've seen you in particular really kind of ramping that up. Doing so much content on your personal socials. Yeah, man. Like, I guess, like, like, is that kind of, is that kind of the way that you're trying to do it at the moment? It's really that sort of relationship building. Is that how you've been able to get such qualified leads?

Yeah, yeah, that's a hundred percent part of it. Because I mean, you look at your funnel, right? First of all, people need to see you on average about 16 times or so, whatever it is, before they really want to buy from you. I'm not going to line my sales guys. I like J.P. right? I like you guys, I like Marco. I'm not going to just put shit in front of you every single day. Like shit leads that don't even want to be on the phone. They don't rock up, they don't value the call. I want to put people in front who actually love you and just can't wait to talk to you. And I just so thankful they're gonna have the opportunity to have their problem solved. Right. And the only way you do that is by, yeah, bulk content. Building the trust. You know, we put out how many Soph does. So my girl, so awesome. One beautiful woman. She. She manages my TikTok. She manages Facebook's. So I've got three different Facebooks. I've got Instagram. I'm sorry, I've got four different Facebooks and Instagram. Two Instagrams. So how many accounts is that? What's that? Six? Seven. Six, seven different accounts? Yeah, we're posting on them every day. TikToks once a day. Instagram is one to five times a day. Facebook, personal, both of them are three times a day. Facebook business is three to five times a day. And then Facebook group is however many times a day. So I've posted there a lot of content. Yeah. Plus ads.

Yeah. And what do you see as like, the next trend? Like, I know TikTok is absolutely blowing up. Like. Like what? Like, what is your aim on TikTok? Is it simply to push them to different platforms or is it just sort of to provide value and for a bit of fun?

TikTok is super immature at the moment in that everyone on it is a fucking teenager. And also in that it's a very immature platform. Number one. My biggest advice, anyone who's on this, don't dance on TikTok, you twats. Right? Just go out and post content. Do the same thing you do on every other platform. Don't do stupid dance and things like that. But yeah, my goal on Tick Tock is just boost that. I got videos on there that are getting like 300,000 views on it. Right. So it's, it's huge. And it's just another way to be omnipresent. I'm a massive believer in omnipresence. I mean, I hope already in Australia when somebody mentions, like, digestion or body composition, my name pops up into their head. Fucking better. Because I'm paying enough money in ads. Right. And blanketing the whole market. Yeah. I don't think that TikTok is ever. Well, until they change the platform. I don't think it's ever going to be a good thing for business. I think that Facebook will always be key. You look at Instagram, right? Facebook comes on and it's great for text and connection and people build a lot of trust. Instagram's there. Nobody really buys well off Instagram. I've never had a huge amount of success with Instagram relative to Facebook. Right. And I know a lot of the big marketers out there, you know, you co and raise and whatnot. Instagram is like 1% of their total, you know, sales. And then I think Tick Tock is going to be even less than that. However, in 10 years time, I think Instagram will creep up a little bit more and Tick Tock will follow. That's what I'm picking anyway. Or it will go like vine and just, you know, go up and down and be dead. But I think that right now, just be on it, you know, if you have the time. I mean, I don't have the time to do it, but Sophie does it all for me and she sets it up and she's amazing at that. So. Actually, you know what? Fuck TikTok. I wouldn't even bother. Hey, if you're just starting out. Yeah. I only do it because I can. And the other thing, you know, it's weird about TikTok, right. So I've got 300,000 views on some things, but it doesn't go to go to followers. Right. So not all of them go. Not all those people go through and start to. To follow you. I've got people who have, you know, I know people who've got hundreds of thousands of followers, but they've got less views than me on a lot of their videos.

It's hard to pick what's working on what's not and how to sort of. And how you would potentially monetize moving forward. Yeah, I know Gary Vee is huge on it, but, you know, again, he's the guy who's got the time. He's long term and he's just.

Yeah. He's also got employees who are putting it up and as well, there is no way he doesn't have a vested interest in that. There is no way he doesn't have some sort of vested interest in it. Because TikTok was not blowing up before Gary V. He's a smart man.

Yeah.

I reckon he's got a vested interest in 100%. Yeah.

You're probably not wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

If I.

If I own 10% of TikTok, I'd be talking about it every day.

I would say it's the best thing ever. Yeah.

Yeah. All right, man. So what's the. What's the. Can you tell us about a sales objection that you've had that just always kind of stuck in your mind? One of the most wildest, like, outrageous one ever? Yeah, there was one that I had where it was like something that. It left me baffled that a lady spent probably 50 bucks a day on McDonald's and probably 150, 200 bucks a week on booze. And this program was like 49 bucks a week. And she was adamant she could not afford it no matter how many times. I went through so many logic circles, and she agreed with me every time and then every single one. She was about 60 kilos overweight, too, but that was one that always kind of stuck in my head as to like. Like, it. It baffled me to the point where it, like, made me lose hope in humanity for about 48 hours.

Yeah. Yeah. I haven't had. I've never had that, thank God. So I would have lost my shit. I wouldn't have been going in logic circles. I would have just asked to straight up be retarded. Yeah. But I was selling my own product.

I would have, but I was selling.

I was selling somebody else's, I guess. Yeah. But I haven't. I haven't had anything crazy like that. But one thing I did have one time was I. I'm a big fan of silence. I'm pretty sure you are too, Matt in the Silence is. Is king. And I pretty sure I dropped the. Dropped the price to a guy once. And this. He was. He really fucking needed it. This dude was all kinds of fucked up ibs. He had. He's had so much, so many issues going on. It was just like this massive list. I won't go into them. But I dropped the price to him at the end and, you know, he had a little objection. I kind of handled it and then I handled it and then just stopped speaking. And I sat there on the phone for seven minutes without a word. Nothing. Right up until the end when he hung up. Couldn't take it any longer. Yeah. And that was probably like the funniest one. It's not as wild as your story, but that's probably the funniest one. Sitting there on the phone for seven minutes, just like, almost.

You gotta put yourself on mute. You got it? You gotta mute yourself and go. Like, I got a little mute button here. Not using this. And I do that. If so, like, I usually have my headset attached to my phone and if I'm. If I know I'm about to do the silence thing, I do it and then I just go mute like that. And then I can. I can kind of get it out of my system, you know? Like, it's like, science is so powerful, but I hate it. So, like, is.

It messes with your head more than the clients?

Yeah. I'll send you this core recording I've got of this guy. It was really funny. I had just listened to a training on science and I was like, you know what I'm gonna say? Almost nothing. This whole call, I just wanted to try end up closing the guy in like a $30,000 package in like 32 minutes.

Yeah.

And I'm like. At the end, I just said, oh, this is how much it costs and how do you want to proceed? I put myself on mute. And for five minutes, he. Objection. Handled himself. I didn't say a word. He was just like, it's really expensive, man. I really need it, but it's now the right time. I suppose it's never the right time, though, is it? Like, he just. He just went through every objection in his head and then just convinced himself, and now he was like, okay, let's do it. I was like, okay.

Shitload. Better off for it, too.

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, he's doing really well now, but, yeah, man, I don't want to take him any more. Your time do. But that was awesome and I really appreciate you coming on. And where can we reach you on socials? TikTok especially.

Drop your TikTok idea. We'll get all the kids hitting you up.

Yeah. Yeah. So is it like. Like, tell us your socials and where we can reach you and. And tell us when your next muscle camp is.

Just say the words James can into the microphone on your phone. Then I'll be on your Facebook for the next year. But. But yes, you could do that, or you can just type in James can anywhere. Facebook, Instagram. I pop up straight away. I'm pretty easy to find with a.

Fucking apostrophe every time because a goddamn autocorrect.

And every time I get a last name, isn't it.

Every time I gotta type your name, it autocorrects it and I have to go back.

I could see it does that to me, too. It's like phone. You know that my. My surname is Can't. Why are you putting an apostrophe in my own name?

Yeah, yeah, well, mine's Boone, but it always changed it to boom. Every single time.

Yeah.

So. Which is kind of funny because that's like Dan Locke's way of saying a sale. So I take. I take personal offense to it, but. Yeah, yeah, but. All right, guys. Man, I really appreciate you coming on. Really appreciate it. Like, it was. It was great. And go follow James. If you're fat and unhappy, go and sign up. He'll make you lean and happy. If you're. If you're broken unhappy, go to him and he'll make you. He'll make you a successful pt. So good stuff. Thanks for coming the show, buddy.

Guys. Mate, really appreciate your time, and we'll look forward to chatting again.

Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.