Live sales training on now
Matt Ryder leads a live coaching call on sales strategies, objection handling, and proposal presentations. Attendees ask questions about B2B sales cycles and closing techniques while Ryder provides detailed feedback on improving their sales performance.
Amount of sense.
Right?
It's. It's sort of like it's, it's the one that is going to come. So let me just share my screen.
Whoa.
That was the wrong way of doing it. Sorry. Should just share my screen real quick. Okay. This is weird. Hold on one sec. Share this window screen. Share audio. Okay. I think I just do this and be done with it. Cool. Yeah. So like, you know, you're always going to. So let's just say you get buyer leads, right? When you get buyer leads, your objection is always going to be, hey, I just want to try this out. When you're bringing people in for a coaching call, the objection is, hey, I'm just going to try this out. Like I have a student of mine who's actually in this membership and then he's doing a couple one on ones with me. But like he, his. It's the exact same, it's the exact same method of getting people in. He's closing it like 50.
Okay.
The whole thing is what you have to do is you have to engineer your sale right to. To.
Right.
Like, it's like that's the only option. So, you know, if I, if I, you, you start off from the top of the bottom. The entire goal is to, is to figure out like how to overcome that. You know, I mean, and so like, let's like, like what's the beginning of your core?
Like.
What'S your.
Okay.
What would happen if the issue didn't get fixed? Not. So what would happen if you didn't get coaching? Coaching goes after the actual urgency creation. After urgency creation is done. They're in an emotional state. They've made an emotional commitment to change.
You wait for it.
Out of 10, they say, yep, I'm sick of dealing with this. I need to change.
Okay. Right.
We could possibly, like, we could help you with this.
All right? And then you. So, okay, so what you're not doing is you're not like, you have to figure out what the linchpin is. So what you do is you. So like, what are, what are the things that really stack that. That are the things that you provide which they cannot do by themselves or don't have. Then you need to get them to say they need that thing inside of the sales process and then make that the linchpin that is going to get them the result. Okay. So it's like, you know.
For example, like, you know, when your physio evaluates you, that's what we do. That tells us the root. So that way they're Actually not like, you know, they can't say, oh, I can do it on my own. Well, you don't know what the root cause is. It's going to get worse, right? So that's like the biggest value.
The problem is like you're, you're bringing them in under a particular way. So like they have to say that, like you can't say, hey, you know, you can't do this, right? And they go, yes. They can't agree, agree. They have to come up with it. So it's like, hey, what do you think you're missing? Why haven't you been able to fix this? Like, well, I just don't think that I, you know, I just don't know what to do. Why don't you know what to do? Like, why not just go on to YouTube University, just try and, you know, get some more stuff. Well, that hasn't worked. Well, why do you think it hasn't worked? You know what I mean? And so, and then you, so you, you've got to seed more doubt, right, by, by really getting them to explain exactly what one, what's caused them to want to do something about it. Because like, there's always a catalyst for change, right? And if they're on hole, you have to find the catalyst, like what switched recently, what's changed recently, why do it? And be willing to kind of circle around in that space for a little while very being. Then once you establish that one thing, you need to like double down on it and get them to truly tell you like, like then. And make that the thing. Like, okay, so the thing that's. What do you think is really blocking you? Well, I just don't know how to do this. Okay. So if you knew how to do that, like, you feel like you'd be able to get results. All right, cool. You know what I mean? And it's about like, that is the whole crux of it. So yeah, whenever you get like a marketing, like it's. It's sales job to pick up where marketing leaves off.
Exactly.
You have to do that analysis and assessment and then go like, okay, if I'm always going to get this, like, if I have a buyer lead that is always going to be, well, I just want to try this first. So you have to dismantle that throughout the call. That's the entire sales process, which is like, that's becomes way more important than like what style you use or any of that stuff. Like, you have to engineer that to figure out the linchpin. And then for you it's like the thing they can never do by themselves. That is they need. They need to come to the conclusion that is the reason why they haven't been able to fix the problem.
And let's say, like, and let's say, for example, we're doing it, we're going through that. Because I always ask them, what have you tried? Why hasn't it worked? Let's just say they say, I didn't really know what to do, or, physio was a fucking band aid solution. They go and say that.
Right.
But then in their mind, they're thinking, I've just bought this thing that is supposed to give me the knowledge to do it.
Yeah. But every single buyer like you're talking about, this is the literal. There is not a single buyer's lead that will not have this exact same objection. Because when you sell something, you sell it as a complete solution. Yeah. Every single time.
Right.
Nobody buys 70% of a solution.
Exactly.
So what is the thing they don't have? And you. The entire job is to extrapolate out, extrapolate out, extrapolate out.
Right.
Like, yeah, it's just how it's done, you know, Like, I've got, I've sold tons of buyer leads. And a lot of people complain more about buyer leads and non buyer leads, which is hilarious because you get dudes who aren't selling buyer leads and they go, imagine being able to speak to someone that had paid money to solve a problem. You know, I mean, and then it's like, oh, but these, you know, there's always a thing, you know, there's this difficulty to every situation. The answer is you need to be better at breaking them down. The one line of like, they say, if they say, oh, I just don't know what to do. And the last physio I had was a band aid. What do you mean you don't know what to do? I'm going to ignore the physio as a band aid thing. If it doesn't benefit me or if that's the one that benefits me, then I go down on that track.
Right?
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Got you. So then in that case, they're like brought to the point of realization where it's like, oh, this entire reason hasn't been that, you know, the physio or whatever wasn't good enough. The issue was I just had no clue what the actual root cause is. And now I don't even know it right now.
Yeah.
And then kind of see that down, it's like, oh, I'm in a position where right now, this moment that I'm on this call, I still don't know what the issue is. And then urgency creation I'm guessing is about that. What happens if you don't find for example, if it's going on for five years, what happens if another five years go by and you actually don't still figure out the root cause?
Like what? Yeah, standard kind of salesy type stuff there. Engineering it. All righty. Jay, what's going on brother? You got a question?
What's going on brother?
How are you? All good.
Hey, two quick questions. So you know with our offer, we have a 950 offer at the end of the sale to MRR for 12 months. What I'm feeling right now is I want to experiment having a smaller tier offer and I want your advice on. Because you sold stuff like this before. When you go to the pitch, is it better to show them the one offer, give them the dream island, then it's like. Or do you think it's better and then bring it down to like half of that for whatever I'm giving them? Or is it better to show the two offers and then try to like figure out where is best fit? What's your thought strategy on that?
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, for sure. The answer is unfortunately a little bit nuanced. So I would say for a highly disciplined sales team that you really trust, the best is to probably present the high and drop to the low.
Right.
For you. What for you particularly, I would do the Honda Ferrari type solution. Depending on how it's, depending on the. On like if it's like one is faster than the other, like, like what is the underlying value prop of doing the high versus the low? Good question.
One is like thought leadership. Press tv, you're the superstar, you're the guy. Next one is I just want to get my feet wet and post on social. But I both know I need to be a thought leader. But that seems a little. It's kind of like I don't want to be in the Ferrari, but I need a car to get there. But maybe I'll take the Toyota instead.
For sure. That's a great one. So you go highly. There are two ways to doing that. Both lead to thought leadership.
Right.
One is the like fast and fun.
Right?
You know, we're driving a Ferrari, we're getting there, we're looking good doing it. The other one is a Honda made it get you from A to B, you become the thought leader but it's slower and not quite as fun. Which conversation do you want to have?
Okay, if they go, okay, we'll show me both, right?
Well it's like, yeah, man, but like, you know, if you can buy a Ferrari, you're not interested in the Honda.
Right?
Well, how much is Ferrari? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So like, you know, and then you can say, you know, price range, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, we're looking at a thousand dollars a month versus 500amonth.
Okay, right.
And then I can go through all that. Which conversation do you want to have? I use that for like high end men's fitness all the time. And like I. That worked really well, right? Hey, there's two conversations we're going to have. Both will get you there. One is Ferrari, fun fast. The other is Honda, slower but mate, super reliable and gets you there every time.
Right?
Okay, like which, like which one's more important to you? Speed like you know, time or money? Which one do you want to pay less but you're happy to get there slower? Do you want to pay more and get there faster? Which one? You know, because the problem becomes once you, once you test drive a Ferrari, you really don't want to buy a Honda, right? So then the drop cell becomes difficult, you know, once you, the drop cells are difficult if there's a, like a much better version available because people just want the better version. Okay. You know, and so that's why it's like presenting one and dropping can be difficult because you're removing probably some of the best and most essential parts of it. So now you're like, hey, do you want this fucking busted up version of it? Even though it's obviously good, but I'm just, you know, and so that's why like doing a pre pitch selection, you know, or if you just know what somebody needs, then just the one, like if you know, no, they actually for based off their goals, what they want, I'm just gonna pitch them to Ferrari, you know, but then you have both those options. Okay. I would say like for your sales reps initially, if you can pre qualify people, put them into a particular, particular lane and go, hey, these people are only to be pitched the high ticket, right? And then it's like everybody else goes into another lane and they can, you know, pick between the two. But the, the risk that you run when introducing a drop cell is an undisciplined team dropping to it all of the time as soon as they get pushback.
Okay.
You know, What I mean, and then.
And then the final question is sometimes these guys obviously do want to sit with and obviously I'm learning from you. And obviously the, that when I do send them the materials after the call, would you recommend like if they're like, okay, it's Friday, they want to wait till Monday, right. Obviously I can get better at tidying that gap. Like should I call them, let's say it's a Thursday, should I call them on the Friday and say, hey, just want to make sure you obviously receive the materials and then try to re engage just to see maybe some hidden objections that I've lost rather than waiting to the Monday for the second call.
Yeah, I mean, I think like, you know, it's one of those things, right? If someone shows up to a follow up call, they're buying, right? Like if they should, because they're not going to buy, they're not going to show up. Like it's very rare that someone shows up and goes, I've decided to know why you text me, bro, I would have gone and got lunch. Yeah, I mean, so I think that, you know, I think that's a good idea. Like I, you know, I think the, the foster and faster you communicate people the better. Okay, so just find that there. Okay, thank you. Also like if someone puts a deposit down, call them the same day and just upsell them, right? Just get them, do the whole thing. Hey man, I just want to say, how you feeling? How you doing? You know, you're taking the first step. It's fantastic. You know, like the hardest thing, like if you're at the bottom of a giant staircase, looking up, you've gone onto the first staircase. Like, you know, I was just thinking about our conversation. I was like, why don't we just. You've done the hardest bit, like just walking, brother. Like, what's the difference? You know, I mean, can you help.
Me frame up a deposit offer when there's no urgency to. Maybe this is a bad question, but like how do I frame up a deposit offer for something like what we have when it's just a solution to get them there? Is that just a sense of urgency that I have to work on?
Yeah, I think like if you're not actively working towards being a thought leader, then all you're doing is having more people get in front of you. Like the line is forming, mate. Like you can watch the line form, but it's only going to get longer, you know, I mean like there's, you know, vacuums are created, right? So I think like, like the urgency is, what does a leader do? They lead from where. And most people are going to say the front.
Where are you?
So, like, the first step in being a leader is leading. You have to be at the front. So, like, you can take as much time as you want, but all you're doing is letting other people stack in front of you. And at the end of the day, how do leaders act? So it's like, do you really want to be a thought leader? Do you really want to be the guy that's like, up there and like, the example? Or like, do you want, you know, someone say, hey, how, like, how'd you get started? How'd you get your profile? Oh, yeah, I had a chat to a guy, waited two weeks, thought about it, and then decided to pull the trigger. Is that the story? That's the origin story. Interesting, gripping, you know, so, like, I, I think, I think you have got some frames in there that can probably be put in where you. If somebody wants to become a thought leader, they have to first identify as a leader. And it's like, well, what do you think a leader is? It's someone who, what leads? Okay, what does that mean to you? Are they risk takers? You know, you do that early on, you you them up real good.
What's the deposit strategy, though? Like, I, I missed that in regards to getting deposits for, like, is it, is it changing for different offers or is it. You can just do it for all offers for putting a deposit down?
I mean, like, so deposits are a thing that I only use. So I can instantly upsell someone. It's like a drop that I'm going to use, right, to then go, hey, let's do a deposit. But like, you know, most of the time they don't end up fulfilling. So, like, it's sort of like, it can be a bit of a waste of time. But, like, a lot of companies have deposits in place to like, you know, you can do a hold your spot, which is. I always just find, like, what's the most honest way of doing it? Which is probably going to be like, hey, man, like, if you want to do it, you know, I'm happy to move along with you. You have two options. One, you can, like, put a deposit down, and then what we'll do is, like, if you want to move forward with it, awesome. If you don't, you let me know and we'll refund you the deposit. But this is a way to tell me that you're actually serious about it. Or you can just go off and do your thing and then we'll chat next week. Like, you know, I mean, what puts you in a better position to be able to actually, you know, ensure that you start taking the action steps towards being xyz, you know what I mean? Do you feel like if you have one foot in the door, you had a better chance or do you feel like if you just kind of sit back and wait, like what works better? So. But I think it should be at the very end of an objection handling cycle. And so knowing full well most of them are gonna fulfill most time, it's just kind of get you off the phone. However, once you get someone to do a deposit, the benefit can be that you can then go, hey, how do you feel? You've already taken the first step. Let's just fucking go all in, dude. Like, come on, Jay. Come on, Jay. All in, brother. Indeed. And then like, because they've had the first pain of like that first emotional barrier of paying a lot of time, like works, you know, Objection handing works. Like, I just did a job interview with a guy that I really wanted to hire for a new like lead developer and he had another offer and I was like, okay, cool. Like that other offer aside though, do you feel like this would be the right role for you? Business partner? Started like smirking because he knew what I was doing. I was like, yeah, I think so. I was like, why is that? He's like, well, this isn't this. I was like, what is the specific though that we've gone over that you feel like this is a good, not only now term, but like long term home for you? Like, do you feel you can build a team here?
Why?
Okay, yeah, I think so. You sure? He's like, yeah, no, I'm pretty sure. Okay, why is that? You know, and anyway, he signed on the line of the day. He signed like done. He's a super in demand guy, right? Super high level developer, you know, like that shit just works, you know, hire.
Thanks.
He's good. Thank you, thank you. He's expensive. That's all right. Good. Always is.
There's always fiverr. There's always Fiverr.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Hey Matt, you get I'm a Devson fiber.
Hey Matt, I'm a little confused. I'm glad you posted. You just sent out an email. I went and subscribed to your Google calendar and it's showing that this training is until Saturday on my end.
It's weird.
Is that URL link still working?
Matt too?
Remember when you said like add it to Your calendars. It didn't work for me either to add it to my calendars.
I'm so, I'm so tech tarted.
Yeah, so I went you, you, you posted on YouTube, like subscribe to this calendar. Took me to a Google link and it wasn't showing until, I don't know, like 10 o' clock on Saturday. And I'm here in Idaho, US. And then luckily you just sent it an email. It said, hey, we're live right now.
I'm just saying it's all, it's set up for the right country. Did I do the same for everybody else or.
No.
Oh, we're.
Terry. Yeah, I don't have it on my calendar.
Yeah, just save the me link, put it in manually.
If the meeting link's in there, I'll try and figure it out. I find it very difficult to figure out how to schedule like this. It's like I tried calendly, just fucking didn't work. It kept like, is it the same one each week? The same meeting link?
Do you use the same one or do you just change it?
Same one each week. Okay. Yeah, the calendar is here. Like, I mean you guys, I know you guys can't see it, but the calendar like that, that subscription, you should be able to just see it. What I'll do is I'm gonna do it a different way. I'm just gonna whack into a spreadsheet and then like just share the spreadsheet. I just thought everyone able to subscribe to like an ICS file on the calendar, but they were not to do that. Let me know. I've got, I've got no clue. So. But yeah, I'll keep posting up also it should. There's videos now. Everything's in the, everything's in like playlists and stuff now.
Right.
So you can go in there and then in each, in each playlist is like the calendar links and the times, I think. So it should be in all the videos. But yeah, I do get a notification.
A YouTube notification every time you go live. And it's like a badge notification on my phone.
Yeah, I added a ton of content, guys. I don't know if you guys know that. I did a ton of content and I put everything into playlists, like module level one, module one, level two, module two, all throughout that. And then I put all the descriptions in and then I added all of the like downloadables and a whole bunch of other trainings and that I put in there. There's probably like 130 videos in there.
Now that's on YouTube. That's on the YouTube. Like to view it from YouTube or on the, the, the notes.
No, it's all, it's all, it's all in the YouTube. Like it's all in. Okay. It should be in like as you guys remembered, you can see it going to playlists and you'll be able to see all the playlists. So you go into my YouTube channel, then go into the playlist. You'll be able to see them all. Okay, cool. Yeah, there's tons of shit. And I put it on order and then like it runs in playlist so it goes from top to bottom. Like it'll just auto play in the right order. And then I added like all these like full sales management things that I have like SOPs. I added my like CEO process documents, like the if I die document. And then like which has links to every meeting agenda, every like fucking everything. Like it's, it's a very comprehensive.
Yeah, you got great content in there. It's a beast.
Yeah, I hope 100 and something, whatever dollars is a month. Also next week, guys, the objection handling course starts. So I'll release that. It's twice a week. Sorry, it's three times a week live. Over half of the recording as well in its own playlist. But it's going through like step by step. There's a full curriculum over the eight weeks for like each objection. And then like full role plays and then I've got special guests each week. What time.
What time zone is that? Or what times are those?
I think I'll post it. I can't remember. I think it's like. It's like 8am my time and it's like 10am It's 10:30 right now. So I'll post it up though. I'm putting it all into a spreadsheet because the fucking calendar.
No, I'm looking at it right now. It didn't add the first time, so it's. It's my retardation the first time. It didn't populate on Google where it adds it to your calendar.
So. Yep, we're good.
It finally populated. I had to re click that link.
Okay, sweet. Well, at least it's all working. Okay guys, let's. Let's get back amongst it. What are we doing? Let's go with Matt Logan. I know you had your hand up. And then we'll go with you, Chaz. And they'll go, you, Nick.
Yeah. So a bit of context. Do a B2B. Not quite, you know, solopreneur but not quite enterprise. It's you know, investment banking to typically biotech companies. So we'll have to get the CSO involved for talking about the science, the pipeline of the clinical trials. Typically have to get the CCO involved for vetting and diligence, mutual due diligence, stuff like that and regulatory issues. There we were, we were relying originally on cold email, just doing cold traffic and you know doing about 40 calls a week. Sales cycle about then was about three to four months. The way we shortened that we did some of the Jeremy Haynes like content and stuff like that moved towards referrals, affiliates. It kind of picked it up a little bit.
But now we're tracking the sales cycle.
What's that? Sorry?
How are you tracking that sales cycle?
Usually it's first call a week later will be like post NDA post like deck materials getting circulated and then from there you know it's typically like just tons of follow on calls because like we're a bit of a premium pricing like north of like six figures usually on them like our lower tier is more like around that 50k or so.
Yeah.
So like it's to the point where now like it does extend the sales cycle with some people and so that's kind of where we, where we see it. But we moved to referrals, affiliates. It kind of does help it a little bit but still you get that like sticker shock sometimes and it, and it does drive the length of it. Yeah, I was looking for some B2B content in the, in the YouTube. I know some of you older podcast like whole interview that used to do with James and some of those.
Good.
I haven't been able to find too much on the actual like creating like proposals and like some of the, the presentation style ones that you had mentioned in there like how you kind of tailor them. So it's kind of curious like where, where you might have some of that stuff. Enterprise. Yeah, I guess like, I guess it is a little bit but it's not like a SaaS where you have to get on with the CTOs and talk about integrations and stuff like that.
Yeah, I'll take you through mine real quick. I appreciate. So can you, can you, can you see that? Yep. Okay. So this is my proposal for dialer. Okay. So I've gone through a couple of different iterations with it and the, the problem with proposals is that like, like if you look at heat mapping on it, people go top left, right and they scroll all the way down and they go bottom right essentially. Because that's usually where pricing is. Okay? So this, this one isn't like there's. I have a different pricing thing that I put on there, however, like.
Oh.
So essentially what I try and do here is like, go. Common problems, right? This is a wordy one because it's tech. Okay. So I'm just gonna. Yeah, say that. So these are the common problems. Now what I did to get these is I put all of my calls into all the call transcripts into chat GPT.
Okay?
And like, then I. I said, like, give me all of the common problems that all my prospects are saying are the biggest issues as to why they bought. Okay, Makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah. So I found them and I was like, sweet. And then it was like, what are the common problems? Which is low pickup rates, you know, this spam flagging compliance blind spots. They don't know what their setters are doing. They have no speed to lead. Their reps are, you know, overwhelmed from dialing an hour a day. They have a shitty tech infrastructure. So it's like these are the things, right? And it's like spam, boom.
Right?
So we do some education stuff around here. And this is like taking them through another sales goal. Because, like, the thing is, you always want to take someone through the proposal. You don't just send it to them. So I'm walking them through this. And then from there, like now they have the context. So when they go back to other people, they can. They can sort of. They can sort of understand it. I go through the.
On a call, so obviously you get the context and the nuance.
Never ever send a proposal. Just send it. Never just send it.
But then it sounds like you send it after and they can take it back with their team with that additional context.
Yes. Okay.
Right.
And then from there it's like, this is like what the problems are doing, right? And then, like, this is how we can solve them, right? And these are like. And listen, I did this myself. Like, it's fucking. It could definitely be prettier, right? But it's like I'm showing them exactly how we can solve the problem, right? And then from there, like, I've got a much better version of the pricing, right? Which is, like, much prettier. But this is just one that I'm like, redoing at the moment. And so I've got this as like a placeholder. And then we have all that, and then it's just like, you know, accept, right? I've got other ones that are, like, a bit prettier, but Sorry, Matt, are.
You going through this proposal with them on the first call or is this post discovery figuring out what they want?
Just so I'm clear. So I'll do a discovery call and then my second call is going to be a. Yep. So I'll do a discovery call which is usually 30 minutes. So. Because I have a DQ funnel.
Right?
So it's like if you're not a good fit, you get, hey, like, thanks very much, we'll be in touch.
Right?
But then from there once, like, like once you go through, then you get onto a call, we do a 30 minute call and then from there we go and do a second call. They almost never sign on that second call. They'll then take the proposal away and then like I'll chase them for a week. So it's. And then it was two weeks in.
Between the first and second. If they're like, hey, send me some information for the second, you'll just send them value touch points or something. Just like education. Because you don't want to send a proposal.
Right?
Proposal. But I will, I will. Like we do have some emails, some automated emails. One of the things that we do is as soon as somebody opts in, they get sent to a YouTube video, right? Which explains like the origin of the dialer, why it was made and like what problems it's meant to solve. What that does is it puts them on the automatic algorithm for retargeting because they watch like a 17 minute YouTube video, which means that YouTube will naturally retarget them with my content. Okay. Which is, which is great. It's free, you know what I mean? And so they start kind of listening in and then what they'll do is they'll like go, oh. And then they'll, they'll be fed videos. And so that will build more trust whether it's with me or with like, I don't really do the sales anymore. I do like the larger sales, right. And the larger sales, like Matt, like they can take me six months. Like I've got one prospect at the moment. I've been there about 80 seats and I've been working them for like maybe three and a half months now.
Right.
And there's just a lot of infrastructure, tech issues. I'm pitching Tony Robbins main company right now, it's 120 seats. It's a very heavy company, lots of bureaucracy. I may get it over the line quickly because they're. One of their contracts is expiring soon. But I mean, if I get that done in the next six Months, I'll be very happy.
Right?
Yeah.
So what face is, I, I work a lot of the projects we work on. We're competing with Goldman Sachs, we're competing with Carlisle and them. And so my initial first call, I can do a bit of any pq, like stock questions and draw some pain. And then I have to obviously introduce the team and you know, when I bring in a fourth year veteran in finance and they hold their PhDs and in the science, when I'm going through the clinical data, like I kind of.
Shut the fuck up.
And then they go through kind of just, it's just pure competent selling. Kind of like how your, your dialer is all about the compliance laws and that's like the depth of that versus like Twilio or something like that.
Yeah, there's, there's different ways of selling, right? Like, you know, and all of them are viable. You know, like when I sell my software, I sell very differently. Like I'm not doing any. Is that having an impact on you? I'm not doing that shit. I'm like, how much money you losing? Like, oh fuck. Okay, sweet. You know, and I mean, it's very logical because it's software and like we're getting buy in and the real, the only really emotional buying we're getting is like fear and fomo, right? The fear is like, fuck, I wonder how many fines are up for, you know, I mean, and then it's like, you know, the FOMO is like, fuck, I've got dudes like Cole Gordon right Now has a 78% contact rate. You want a 78% contact rate, right? And that's without text, without email, that's just from calling people, right? I, when I was running seventh level, we had an 8% contact rate, right? So like, you know, and a system like mine didn't exist, right? So like we've got dudes just came on and they have their own dialing analytics platform. And they were like, we didn't realize how little our agents did, you know. And it's like, it's, it's, it's great. Yeah. 78 is crazy. We have a client, 9.52 lifetime, three months on the platform, 90.52 contact rate deletes, right? So I know this is a cut.
I know this is a coaching call, Matt. It's not a sales call for dialer, but just out of curiosity, like, so Hermosi talks about anytime he makes a shift in the business, in the, with the sales team, there's a drop, 20% drop in productivity because you're making a big change. But if he can get a 40% lift, then he'll do it, right? Like if there could be chance of it happening, it work get really ramped up and get going.
No, it's like instantaneous. So you just take seven to ten days to onboard and then from there like we do a lot of the doing for people because like people are tech tarted. And so we used to rely on other people doing integrations and we just went like, we'll just do it for you. This is ridiculous. And then from there like the guys just go on, press go and it's done. Like it's sick. It's done. We usually optimize it over time because like there's different ways of doing it. We're actually. I don't know if you guys give a fuck, but there's like this, there's a huge shift. You guys know what a Stir Shaken is? You guys ever heard of that? Stir Shaken is like the underlying protocols that numbers and people are supposed to adhere to. It's like a series of behaviors. And if you adhere to it, then your Stir Shaken is like good to go. And then that will. That information comes with every call and is locked to what's called the did, which is the phone number.
Right.
And so that phone number stores a history with it. And depending on the history and the adherence to a Stir Shaking protocol.
Right.
Is whether or not you will get deliverability. This is pre spam flagging. That's called attestation scoring.
Right.
And then from there once. So if you go straight to voicemail all the time, that's got nothing to do with spam flagging that's attestation scoring being. Being real low Right now. If you're power dialing, you can only be a level B. It's abc. A is the top Level C. If you're like doing wrapped caller IDs with a power dial like on Kixie or something, you'll be level C automatically. So your quarter delivery is quite low. But Stir Shaken has been thrown out by AT&T and T Mobile. But they haven't told the public or anybody. So they've been using their own secret analytics which nobody knew about. Which is why everyone's outbound performance has dropped, especially quite recently. And even the spam flag monitoring companies don't actually know if their spam flag monitoring is correct. Including me.
Right.
So I monitor on ATT with the information I have. Is the information AT and T is giving me is not reflective of their Actual system.
Right.
And they told us that because I, I made a lot of phone calls and finally got to someone who was high enough to tell me what the was going on. So we've struck a deal with them to get instant to do a special remediation package which is going to be almost impossible to get. And we're the only dialer that's going to happen by a boat anyway.
There we go.
That was probably very boring for 99% of people. But anyway, it's only thing I know.
There'S other people their hands up. Just one thing you mentioned do one on ones or you mentioned there's a guy you're doing one on ones with.
Is that it's very expensive.
I don't recommend it. It's a thing of like make me an offer and because I don't want to do it.
Right.
Let's do a role play on that.
Matt, you know, Mad Matt, you know.
Let'S do a role play on that.
It's hard to get me to do stuff. All right. But like you don't need it, mate. Like you're. You're probably trying to solve a problem you don't have, which is like, how do I speed up my sales cycle? It's like you. Well, if it's working, you don't.
Right.
It's predictable.
Yeah. It's pre and it's. I think that's right. But it's preempted because now it's going to be. It was just me selling. We got like mid six figures per month. But now we're trying to ramp up to like 20 to 5 to $50 million a year, hopefully in just the retainer. Of course there's success fees that build on the back end. But we're trying to now bring in a sales team and I need to. I have all the calls in the world to train them up on. But now I need to, you know. You know these people are going to take forever to get like kind of their commissions paid on these deals and they're like such long sales cycles. So I was just trying to see any like little things that I could do to kind of speed it up at all.
The, the best thing you can do for B2B honestly to speed it up is same time next week. Yeah, I'm not even joking.
Yeah, right.
If you just don't get off a call without the next one being booked, right. Most of the time you go, hey. So we'll get together over email and we'll coordinate and it's four Weeks for the next call. Same time next week? Yep.
Sweet.
Okay, cool. And if they're like, I'm not sure if that works for everyone. Well, let's just book it in and then we can move it if we need to. But at least we have something in the diary. That's what I do. And I'll get large deals done in four weeks, whereas other people will take six months. And I just. Same time next week. And they go, yep, sweet. I appreciate man works one on one. Done.
Right?
Same time next week. Fucking revolutionary. Who do I say is Chaz? Chaz Michael Michaels. How are you, sir?
I'm doing great.
Yeah.
Do you actually have two Z's in it?
Yeah, it's actually my real name.
I like it.
Yeah, it's been nice. But yeah. So my question was, like, I'm newer to sales. I've been in for like one and a half months now. And across, like, training through going through sales training, role plays, like, listening to calls of my own or others. Like, what should I focus on, like, the most? Like, how should I kind of split in between, like, those things? That's gonna serve me best for where I'm at.
Okay, first of all, how old are you? 18. Okay, cool. What are you selling?
I sell like a crypto course for decentralized masters. It's like mentorship, of course, Helping people invest in defi.
What time are you doing outbound or inbound?
I'm outbound right now, so I'm an sdr.
Perfect. Okay, so I'm gonna go. I'm gonna say something probably weird here. I would recommend limiting yourself to an hour to two hours a week of sales training. Okay. Max.
Right.
The reason why I say that is because you haven't spoken to many people, period, in life, right? So what you need is you need to be really good at talking to people.
Right?
Like J up there, right? Fanatastic. Used to be like a live.
Right.
Dude can talk us off.
Right?
You know what I mean? Me, I have a super hot wife. Okay. I'm not a good looking man. Right. And I was broke when I met her. Yeah. I mean, so, like, I'm really good at talking to people.
Right?
Talking to people is the thing that you have to get extremely comfortable with. Okay. And like, the only way that you're gonna do that is through just dialing until your ears bleed. Right. The fastest way for you to get better is to just experience a lot of different conversations for the next couple of months. Because if you can do that, then, like, you'll be Able to have the problem. The reason why training works faster for some than others. One, there's iq, but two, there's a pool of experience to pull from where you can retrospectively put things in place and go, oh, right. When I started sales training with like, Jeremy, for example, right? I'd been a full time sales rep for eight years and I was pretty good, you know what I mean? And I'd done outbound for five years solid. So the amount of conversations I have was immense. So when I was, they was like changing one thing. I was like, fuck. And I could extrapolate that out to everything I was doing wrong. And I immediately like tripled my sales, right? And what I've seen is like, if you don't have that baseline of just conversational experience, like if you can't hear when something is important to someone, you know, like the art of misdirection, right? It's basically placing importance on something that's not important. What that is is tonality. And you know, like, you know, and so if you, if you want to, if you need to be able to hear when someone is giving you the clue, hey man, like, I really need to fix the X and the, and the Y and Z. Which one's more important? It's the X. Because they, they hesitated after that. It's the X and the Y and the Z, right? If you can't, they'll go, X. What do you mean?
Right?
If you can't hear that, you're like, that is so fundamental to being good at sales. That, and it's, it's unteachable, right? Like it's an ephemeral X factor that only comes with being able to hear what someone's trying to tell you when they are not able to tell you, right? Have you ever heard like 911, right? Because they're like, they're, they're like really expertly trained. Like, like, and they're so dialed in to where it's like a chick can call up and like, they're like, hey, I'm just trying to order a pizza, you know? And they know in a prank, in a real life, holy, there's someone holding a gun to my throat.
Right?
You know what I mean? Yeah.
Right.
And so it's like those, those little things are really important. So I think the best thing for you is like the also like, don't focus on things you're, you're necessarily bad at always. I want you to. 1 hour per. 1 per week. I want you to study your absolute best, best Interactions. Okay.
Right.
And then one hour per week, I want you to focus on one thing that you need to change to get better.
Right.
Like what is a low hanging fruit for you? The way that you figure out low hanging fruit is through tracking data and being meticulous about it.
Right.
How many calls, how many pickups? How many pickups? How many conversations over 30 seconds? How many over two minutes? How many over two minutes to offer? How many offer to. Yes.
Right.
And from those metrics, if I were to change one of them, right. Which one is one easiest to change and two has the highest possible output and the further towards the top of that funnel you go, the more impactful it will be. If you can double pick up to conversation rate, you will double the amount of people you pitch.
Right.
So working on objections or working on like your offer to accept ratio.
Right.
Is nowhere near as impactful as just being able to offer more people. And most time in outbound, if you don't have 80% of people that you call having a conversation over two minutes, I would argue that's probably the lowest hanging fruit, which is usually going to be with tonality and like just not. Like if people tell you they're busy, they're not. The reason why I know that is because they picked up an unknown number. When was the last time? Yeah, really busy. And a number you don't recognize. You're like, oh yeah, I got some fucking. I'm so busy right now. This person, I have no idea.
Right.
That doesn't exist. So what they're telling you is something about the way you said or what you said makes me not want to talk to you right now.
Right.
And that's not a bad lead. That's just not being very good at your job. Which is fine because. Yeah. And you're supposed to suck, right? I don't know that you do suck. But I'm just saying, does that make sense? Yeah, that does.
That definitely makes a lot of sense. I mean, even just like not drowning myself with sales training right away, but just getting in so many reps. So I have that baseline.
Yeah. I didn't do any sales training for years, man. And then even when I did sales training, like, you'd be shocked at how little I've done. Like, you'd be shocked. You guys have done more sales training than me. Photo. I would just basically listen to like my best call over and over again and I was like, oh, if I can just replicate that, then I'll just put that in my brain.
Right.
Like that. That seems to be, like, a really easy way of doing that, you know? Oh, I nailed it on that one. I'll just do that over and over again. And then I started to believe I was incredible because, like, all I did was focus on how good I was because, like, I just wanted to replicate that. So, like, I just believed, if I do that, I'll sell everyone. And then if I didn't sell it just because I just didn't do that. So how do I more consistently do that thing that I know will work and sell everybody if I do it?
Right?
Like, that's such a better way of. Yeah. Than, like, I suck at this. It's like, no, I'm incredible at it. I'm not incredible at doing that every time.
Right.
100% makes sense.
Yeah. Okay. All right. Sick. Mr. Nick Prisco. What's going on? My question is actually the same question really. How to train somebody? Well, how to train somebody is totally different. Why? Well, training yourself and training other people are different, right? Because you know what's in your head, okay? So when you listen to your own calls, it's very valuable. Listen to other people's calls is not.
Right.
The re. That's why I don't have a ton of, like, sales call stuff, right? Because, like, listening to other people's calls is not, I don't know, the thought process. Why did he do that? What was there?
What.
What did he see that I didn't see? Why did he say that? All you end up doing is trying to pick up word tracks, and word tracks are useless without the why? Some people go, when a prospect says this, what do I say? I go, I don't know. What did you say for the 10 minutes before that? What's the context?
Right?
So, like, listening to calls is not a really effective way. What it is is like when. When you see if I release a live sales call, that is a authority play for me. It is not a teaching play.
Right?
It is a, look at me. I'm better than you. Okay? Now it's like, so you can hear what I say, you know, I would say the biggest difference between me and other trainers is that, like, I will tell you, I don't know something, and I will ask for context because I don't like hot takes, right? So when you train someone how to be good at sales, it is a skill in itself. Sales training done well. Being a good salesperson does not make you a good sales trainer. One, you have to be willing to give advice that is bad, because bad advice for some is good. For others, okay? Like when you're not. When you're new to sales, like, the things that I want to focus on are. And the advice that I'll give you will be very particular to the fact that I know that you are causing the problem. So because a lack of consistency creates inherent. Creates constantly changing variables which are impossible to calculate for. So if I am saying an opening line, like if I'm coaching Chaz and I listen to 10 of his calls and his opening line is presented differently every time, nothing after that is important because the difference and the variable that's being created by the variances in his tonality is causing different responses every time. So therefore, if I'm going to teach him how to like, drive more, like, it's all irrelevant because that you're having to deal with all these new and interesting factors every time, which you just. No one's smart enough to deal with that, right? So what you have to do is first of all is go mate. I don't give a fuck what you say down here. Just do it confidently, right? I just need you to fix this one thing up here. But I might give him a little bit of what he wants. Like, how do I do this? Okay, well, I want you to focus on this and say this. It's like. But what I'm going to do is work on consistency. Also, the advice I give someone who's quite passive, like me, I'm quite a forceful person. So if I were to tell me, like, I need to, the reason why, like neutral languaging works for me is because I'm quite forceful and not afraid of confrontation, okay? Whereas if I'm a very passive person and leaned out naturally and softer spoken, if I use neutral words and neutral tone and I'm passive and leaned out, I sound like a pussy. And nobody wants to buy anything from me, right? So the advice I give is contextual to the individual. Hey, I need you to ramp it up. I need you to sound like an asshole. That's why I use really like a verbose language, right? Because when you're teaching people, they only take an element of what you give them. So I'm gonna tell like a really leaned out passive person. Hey, I need you to sound like a chauvinistic pig on this call. And they're just gonna sound like a confident dude. If I take like a yash and I say, I need you to sound like a chauvinistic pig, he's gonna call him a cunt, he's gonna say horrible things to people. So I need him to tone down, you know what I mean? So all of it is contextual. So like, you, like, that's why there is no right and there is no wrong. There's just what's going to work for that person. And you have to be willing to give bad advice to the right person because it's good advice for them, but it won't always be good advice. And that's where the nuance of actually making someone better at sales is quite difficult. Because, like, you know, for example, when I come into a sales team, the very last thing I'll touch is the script. I don't care if their script is abysmal. I really don't. I'm going to look at it and go, well, how long have they been doing it? Well, for a year. All right, well then changing this seems like a hassle, right? And when you add something new, what are you doing? You're adding in. There's a human element of one adaptation which always takes time. So they have to learn it and then adapt it and then get good at it. So I'm looking at three months, right? So now they're going to decrease their sales, which is no good. So what I'm going to do is work around the sales team and do nothing that involves a human element, right? I'm going to work on all the tweaks to get everyone more opportunity, build more, do all these things. Then from there I'll go, okay, what is the one thing that I can do that will have a net positive benefit? Hey, these guys suck at objections. Okay, cool. I'm just going to teach them how to handle objections. That's it. Now is that the best way to do it overall, absolutely not. But for this team in particular, yes, it is. Then from there I'm going to work on like one thing, either at the top or the bottom. That's going to be a judgment call, right? Because at the top it's a huge, like, spread down change. At the bottom it's a much more minor change because, like, it affects far less people, right? Because like, not everyone gets to an objection. You have to become a lead, get onto a call, right? Show up, get all the way through the call, be pitched and give an objection, right? So like, it's a very small number of people except for like increasing the show rate, you know, and so, like, when I say so, get. So teaching people, teaching a team or teaching people, you have to be quite careful what you do and what change you make, because every change will have a flow on Effect and you have to know what that is. So just we. We have another rep with us. And like, literally today we were reviewing.
One of his calls and it was just, he was listing like, really important.
Things during, like the pillars, like, during the pitch.
And like we were role playing it after and like getting him to do it, but I just felt like we weren't there and then we said to go watch my freaking call. But you're saying not to do that. Well, no, I'm not saying not to do that. Again, I don't like definitives. I'm saying, like, is it. If you can explain your thought process and they have the ability to contact you and ask you the questions, but the why is way more important than. Than the what. Okay, so like when I listen to someone's calls, what I'm listening for is thought process. Process.
I.
Very real. I don't care how they execute. Execution is an easy fix, right? It really is. But if. If I do not understand why they're asking questions, they are bad at sales, right? If I cannot predict what they're going to do, then I would, I would argue I will probably fire that person.
Right?
Like, for me personally, if I listen to their calls and go, what in the are they on about? Like, you know, it's like I do not understand the thought process they are using, right? I will probably let them go because fixing that is a monumental task now, if I understand it, but they're doing it. I'm like, oh, easy.
Right?
Easy. So that's the delineation you have to make. You know what I mean? Is it just bad execution? Then just work on one thing and just one thing. That's it. And that's where, like, being a good Coach is seeing 10 things that are wrong and ignoring nine of them. Because if I give you 10 pieces of feedback, I can tell you right now, mate, you're doing none of them or you're gonna try and do all of them and then what's gonna happen? Yeah, disaster. Because, like, then the person thinking about everything and they will sound outrageously stupid and their heads will explode, right? So just think one thing. Go. Hey, man, I don't care. Everything's great. Fantastic. I don't care about anything else. I need you to do this one thing perfect. Just focus on that next week. Okay? Good. We happy with that? One thing. That's automatic now. Perfect. Okay, now it's just one thing. Good. Done. And just do it that way because that's how you get someone better. And if you have. If you Increase. If you have 12 things you get better. With over 12 weeks they will be double as good, you know. But the problem is everyone tries to get better at everything all at once and that's why everyone sucks at stuff, you know, like, you know Jay, like magician mate. If you want to get good at like a particular like sleight of hand movement, what do you do?
It's one finger placement every day sitting in your bed, just move, move, move, move. Until then you like, you know.
Yeah, you just like focus, get good. Like if there's a three part cut, part one, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, automatic, you can do it in your sleep. Then it's part two individually, part three individually, then part one and part two, then part one, part two, part three.
Right.
Like you know, you have to do all these things because you got to break it out. You can't just learn stuff like you know. Does that make sense? Yeah. All right Shoel. So Sohail, last question then I gotta run.
Hello. So my question was going back to Matt's B2B point. So I wanted to get your perspective on. I know you kind of mentioned a little bit about how you tend to not go into personal outcome type of questioning which is usually, you know, what you would do in say fitness and APQ style. But I'm wondering whether you found in B2B complex sales where you found it to have a useful place. Like you're speaking to an executive and you find that it might be useful to tie the software purchase to whatever they're pursuing in their role as an executive. So they're trying to work up to a promotion or work up to a new tier or something like that.
And I think like, so what I'm talking about when I say that is like I am the expert, right? So I'm using an authority sale because I know way more than them about the thing. So like I'm going through, it's a logical and expertise and it's like I call it a matrix sale, right? I'm going to tell you why you've been in the matrix and you didn't even know. That's literally how I describe it to my rep, right? It's. And then at the end I'm going to offer you the red pill or the blue pill and you can take it if you want to. It doesn't affect me either way, right? So that's the thing. It's like, hey, give me all of your dialing stats and they're abysmal and then I go do you want me to tell you why it's never worked? And they go, yeah. And then it's like, hey, it's not your problem. This system was rigged against you for all of these reasons. But it's your fault. And you now know and now you can never look at it differently. And here is how I fix it. Do you want to exit the matrix or do you want to stay in it? Up to you, champ. That's the sale.
Right.
But that's very particular. Okay. And it has to be taught, you know, and my rep is not as good at it as me. Yeah, I mean, but he's still good. But he's a follow up beast.
Right.
So you know, is there benefit to doing it? Absolutely right. And again, there's no wrong, there's just what works. And I think it's a combination of all these things that end up working. But it's also my personality versus your personality versus your position in the market and my position in the market. What I'm saying is like, boom. Like how I tell Jay how to sell will be slightly differently than how I tell his reps how to sell. Because he's not Jay, he's not me. So we need to make adjustments to that. You know what I mean?
I suppose in a B2B complex the role plays a role as well. Like if you're just like str, you're not going to be asking these type of questions with a. Yeah. Executive.
But also you don't know the fucking answer. Do not ask the question. Right. Like, yeah, like when people pretend to be experts that they're not.
Right.
That becomes a real issue because it gets uncovered extremely quickly. So my recommendation is like, like I think that the default attack attaching personal goals and outcomes to things is a much. It's a much smoother way of selling that will probably get you a very far a lot of the time. And there's never an issue into anchoring personal outcomes.
Right.
You know, especially also if you're dealing in an environment where you have to get to a decision maker. Anchoring the outcome for the interim person is essential in creating an advocate and advocacy. Creation is a skill set of its own.
Yeah, yeah. So just a quick part two, which is that. So the context for this was a sale into Amazon's Alexa division. They were rolling that out into the automate, the automotive industries of BMW, etc. So we ended up closing the deal.
To a decision maker. Anchoring the outcome for the interim person is essential in creating an advocate and advocacy. Creation is a skill set of Its own.
Yeah, yeah. So just a quick part two, which is that. So the context for this was a sale into Amazon's Alexa division. They were rolling that out into the automate, the Automotive Industries of BMW, etc. So we ended up closing the deal instead. I was trying to see how I would have applied what I've learned through this to that sale to make it like faster, more effective, etc. Among the aspects that was a bit different to anything that I've seen in this training was that the call had department heads. I had like the head of marketing, Alexa, Amazon. I had the head of this, head of that. Like all these big.
Yeah.
Guys. So in that context, there is a great guy. His name's. I'll find him. I'll do a post about him. But he's like, he's a really good sales trainer for like large enterprise. Like real, like large enterprise stuff is for. I can't remember his name, to be honest. It's Chris, right? No, his first name is Jeremy. I can't remember his last name. Anyway, I'll find out. But the thing is, like, you know, multi head, like, it's just about taking direction of the call like that. Like, no, Jeremy Haynes is a marketer. It's about, it's about taking direction of the call. And like, I, I had a very specific agenda.
I had the. I had a deck.
Yeah.
I stopped in there to get everyone's like, priorities and it ended up being successful. But I just want to understand if. Because you. I know you're doing dialer now, so I thought, yeah, you may have come across those type of.
I had head of tech of Robinson, head of tech, head of sales.
So how do you deal with that? Do you stop and like, speak to them individually? Do you treat as a goop. How do you approach that type of dynamic when you have multiple people in the group?
Yeah, well, there's one person that I need to. I know I need to talk to.
Right, right.
And if someone's real quiet and only uses us, we, us, we, ours, they never use singular pronouns. Then they're the person that is going to make the decision. Because usually decision makers will either very obviously, like be very obvious or they will be total background.
Right.
And then use we, us, ours. Okay.
Like, does that concern you when you see someone just sitting there.
I'm asking questions like, hey, like, what do you feel about that? Okay. And then if you see someone's eyebrows raised, like, oh, they do some sort of facial expression. They can't hide something. Ask them about It.
Right.
But it's really about you did it perfectly. Have a clear agenda, run the call, ask questions to individuals. If you see something, call it out and make sure that like, you, you know, make sure that you respect the positions of everybody and that you're not trying to kind of cut anyone's grass and have an understanding as to what you're doing affects someone's job.
Right.
Like when I was selling sales training, like, like large enterprise sales training, the sales manager was never stoked about it. Okay. Yeah. Like, I had to navigate that and be like, hey. And part of it was like, I'm on your team, you know, and I would try and have siloed conversations with the manager. Or like, if the headshed got off, I'd go, okay, now that they're gone, like, what do you think we really need to fix here? Like, what's the biggest problem? And I try and get them on side, you know what I mean? But again, like, there's no, like, each environment. Okay. Yeah, like I. To navigate that and be like, hey. And part of it was like, I'm on your team, you know, And I would try and have siloed conversations with the manager or like, if the head shed got off, I'd go, okay, now that they're gone, like, what do you think we really need to fix here? Like, what's the biggest problem? And I try and get them on side, you know what I mean? But again, like, there's no. Like, each environment is so different that. And each personality doing the selling is so different that I don't feel like there's a genuine way of training in a group or like, environment that's not like, just follow Sales Principles 101 and you'll probably be fine. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like it's such a. An odd. It's. It's such a unique environment, but it's also not difficult to sell. It's just logistically heavy.
Right.
There's.
I think it's two things, one you just said and the other one that you've mentioned in the call before, the one you just said, which is like, essentially, if I'm paraphrasing in a less diplomatic way, don't be a prick. Like, realize that a human beings who have personal agendas and like address those, like the sales manager and. And the second thing I think you said, which is really underrated but I found useful, is that don't rush. Like, just don't rush. Just let it take its time type of thing.
Exactly. All right. Guys. I'm running.
All right, cool, man.
Gotta go. Awesome job. I'll see you guys next week.
Bye.
Thanks, guys. Right. Hey, guys, if you like that kind of Stuff, Level 3 membership link will be down below. It's also in my description. I do that every single week. And then we have, like, five other ones as well, so. Yeah. Enjoy. Bye.
