Live training with Matt Ryder - Intense Roleplays

Just getting ready to go live. All right, let's get amongst this. All right, you guys got any questions, queries to apple points or anything like that?

Is it just us in here or is everybody else?

It will be for, like, the next minute, and then people would just start coming in.

Okay. I don't have anything specific, but it's today. Just like, a role play or, like, everything. I'm fairly new to this.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. When did you join?

Well, I mean, I'm an impact, but I usually don't. I haven't come to, like, yours. Yours before. Okay, so I'm in, like, with Yash Andres, but nice one.

Yeah.

You want to do, like, quick outbound role play before everything gets going?

Yeah, let's do it.

All right. Yeah.

So it's for. We'll just do an automated trading offer. That's what I was on before, but.

Okay.

It's just done for you. Like, you don't have to worry about it. Just, you know, hands free trading. So more passive income, higher return. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Okay. All right.

Hey, Matt.

Yeah, hey.

Hey, buddy. It's Crit with Jimmy is trading. How are you?

You good, buddy, Good.

It looks like you were interested in, like, possibly automating your trading to, you know, get higher returns, more passive income.

Is that right?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. I just. I just wanted to see if what we do could even work for you. So just so you know, I understand, like, what was kind of the intent behind, you know, looking into an automated system?

Like, what were you, like, hoping to.

Get out of it?

I just don't have the time to, I guess, you know, put the effort into be able to trade and, you know, make money out of it. So looking for more passive strategy.

Okay, all right, well, like, what have you seen that makes you feel like maybe like. Like you don't have enough passive income at the moment that's causing you to look for more.

It's a weird question. That was.

That was like, the experience question or. That's what I was trying to do for the experience questions.

Yeah, for sure.

So, like, what's the.

What's the core. The core problem? Like, so that's like. It's a good example because, like, that. That will get off track super quickly. Right, right. And so, like.

What the.

The problem that you solve is like.

I, like, you supply the bot.

Right, right, right, right. Like, you. You want to get into a conversation around, like, what have you done to solve your problems? The problem is, okay, everyone gets into.

These, like, what are you.

What are you currently doing to, like.

It'S not solved the problem, but it's.

They're kind of like, you know, if I.

If I'm.

If I'm gonna sell you fitness coaching. Okay.

Right.

And I go like, hey, run me through your current workout regime. That's a completely unproductive line of questioning.

Okay.

Because is it going to change the prescription at the end?

Right. More of like, what are you doing to, like, actually solve the problem right now?

Yeah. Okay. It's like, okay, I've been looking to lose weight.

All right.

What are you doing to lose the weight right now?

Yeah, exactly. But then it's like. Or have you been doing anything?

And.

And. And then you can go, okay, so if they. If they are doing stuff. Sweet. I need to talk about it. Okay, so what's kind of sparked the interest or what's been the catalyst or, like, what shifted recently to where you really want to start taking this more seriously, get more help, and actually start kind of getting the results that you want. So, again, I'm gonna, like, very quickly breeze over what they're currently doing and then figure out what they're either doing to ramp it up or why they want to ramp up or, like, you know what I mean? Otherwise, I end up in these, like, nebulous zones where I'm kind of, like, trying to fight for these kind of. You know what I mean? It's, like, interesting information that seems relevant, yet ultimately, it's completely unreactive because it doesn't really push the sail downward in any way. Right. And then you end up in, like, a rabbit hole of 5, 10 minutes, talking about, like, you know, random methods which sort of mean nothing.

Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

I see especially the way that I.

Was, like, on outbound, I would recommend being a bit more perky.

Oh. Like, just more energy. Like, just.

Yeah, just because, like, you're interrupting someone's day, so. Jeremy speaking. It's like, hey, Crit.

Yeah, hey, mate.

It's just Matt from xyz. It looks like you'd. So, like, you want to sound happy and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Okay, okay.

Yeah, Yeah.

I know the way I was used to doing it, which I see because, like, the outbound calls I was doing would take longer than I would want it to be. Like, I've seen you mention. Like, you probably want it, like, three minutes. Like, five minutes for the discovery.

Yeah.

The thing is, I was doing like, the, like, in kind of the experience. I don't know if it's different with the way you guys do It. But it was kind of like, what have you seen that caused you to feel like you don't have the tangible and then take the avenue of like, okay, what are you currently doing now that's causing you to have, like, the experience? So maybe it's just more complicated or different.

Different way of doing.

I'm kind of confused a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I guess you can.

You can try both ways, but, like, what? I just want to, like, do things quickly.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I like doing things fast and I like kind of getting to the. The nuts and bolts of it. Right.

Okay. Okay, cool. So then when you get to problem, it would just be like, are you very. Like, do you go too super deep in a problem? Or is it like, if they kind of just go like, oh, yeah, this is kind of what's going on. You just book them after that, or.

No, it's like, as soon as I figure out that they have a problem.

That I can solve, then, yeah, I'm. I'm gonna try and book them in.

Okay, interesting. Okay, cool. All right, well, that makes sense.

All right.

Just.

Okay. I'm just doing one thing. Recorded sales training. Sweet. Let's see what happens. Sorry, I'm just trying to. I started the Patreon, so I'm just. This is like. Should now be streaming into the Patreon, I guess. I don't know. Anyway, I'm figuring that out myself. Alrighty, let's get amongst it.

What's the time over there?

Did the time change. The time zone change recently? Ah, hence why less people. What time is it in EST right now?

4 o'.

Clock.

4 o'.

Clock.

Everyone thinks I'm gonna be doing this in an hour.

Ah, perfect.

Perfect. Hence why there's people on here. Okay, that makes sense.

My.

My time zone stasis. My time zone didn't shift your guest. Okay, well, that makes sense.

All right, cool. All right, it's gonna be a small.

Group today, which is. Which is sweet. What I am gonna do, two seconds, is I'm gonna hijack this and I'm going to show you guys this thing. In case you guys haven't. This is the new version. So if you're on YouTube, right? The YouTube membership's still going. There's. It's like nothing changing there.

However, I have the.

This version now, which is on Patreon. Reason why I'm switching over is this is obviously way more organized. Right. As you can see. So I can go into, like, collections and then I've got you Know, one on one coaching calls. Like, I've got a bunch of live sales calls. And the cool thing about this is I can add audios because a lot of mine or like some bloody examples are audios, right? So I can't add those to YouTube, right? So I can add those here and then from there it's just way more. It's just a more organized platform, you know, it's got all the sales foundations, like everything. And then I'm kind of adding everything to it. But I've got everything from the course and then I've got all the coaching sessions from the coaches broken down here. Then if you want to search something, you can just have all these tags. If you want to search scripting or whatever, you can just search scripting into the home bar and stuff like that. Then everything will be the same. All the tiers are the same. There's just more stuff in here. And then if you guys are on.

The YouTube and you want to switch.

Over, there's like a code in the discord which gives you half off for the first month. And that kind of allows you to like, if you want to make the transition over everything. But there'll be no reduction or no change. But they're different platforms that don't talk to each other, right? So you have to cancel one and start the other one. And then it gives you just more options. But everything else will stay pretty much the same. But there's more stuff in the Patreon. And the main reason I'm switching over is because YouTube takes 45%, right?

So.

And it's very hard to organize. So I didn't expect 600 people to like sign up. So I wasn't expecting like tons of people to be using it. And like, you know, I mean, so like, anyway, I decided to make it more organized. So that's it. You can sign up for like 50 bucks a month, whatever tier you want to be on. But they're on there. So it's got some cool. I'm pretty happy with it. I built it myself, you know, so there you go. All right. Somebody wants to come in. What was the question? All right. Do I get 50 off the fanboy.

Teeth the first month?

Yeah, if you want, man, go in there, fanboy it up, right? It's becoming one of the more popular tiers. For those of you who don't know, I have a fanboy tier. It gets you no extra benefits and it's more expensive.

But I will see that you are.

A true fanboy, right? So if that Whatever that's worth to you, right? Whatever that's worth to you, right? So. Which I think is pretty special. There's a special bond between a man and his fanboys. So, alrighty, let's get amongst it because I'm an hour early because the time zone changed. So Ridley going to be a nice small group today. So you guys are going to get some special attention.

All right, so let's go through it. Who wants to do a role play or who's got some like nitty gritty.

Questions that we can answer? Yeah, I have a quick question.

Basically, what do. What do you think about asking a question? Like asking your prospect what they think about the results of others of your case of this? Like you're showing case of this and then. Then you're asking what they think about it.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing. I think like, hey, is there any. Is there any particular ones that resonated you? I think the issue is if you send a bunch of them, I think it's kind of waste of time. What I did personally is I had. I would like, I did triage into.

Sales school for like when I was doing something, like some stuff that had.

Case studies and was more expensive, et cetera. And then I had them broken up into like industry problem, revenue. And I had a bunch of case studies. And then what I would do is on the triage, I kind of lumped them into one of three categories and then I had case studies specifically for those categories. Because if you send a case study that's like way more revenue, way less revenue, way bigger profile with this profile, different problems. You know what I mean? Like, man, you can. Yeah, someone, they're like, oh, but I'm. That person's a black lesbian and I'm not. And it's like, so it's totally different. And you're like, sake. Right. So what I would try and do is like lump them with the problems. Then I think, like, there's some relevancy to it. The problem is like, you know, if you're just sending a whole bunch, like they're probably going to get overwhelmed, not watch them or it can actually induce.

More problems than what it solves, I think. Yeah, yeah.

Bit of a problem.

I'm selling an high ticket. Like it's after pitch or like before the pitch on the, on the consultation. I'm showing it and yeah, I'm asking in the. And they are saying like, yeah, and it depends. They say different things. But yeah, I was just wondering what do you think?

Is it like, yeah, like, good to.

Ask them or just, just leave it and they will think something because they can ask some question about it and so on, so on. You know, you can clarify.

I mean, if I'm gonna say. If you spend five minutes on it, I'd say it's a giant waste of time. But if you're like, hey, is there any particular, like ones that. That resonated with you? Yes. Okay, which one? Why is that? All right, cool. And then get straight into it. Do I think it's a war winner? Absolutely not. Do I think it's something that is fine? Yes. I'm. I'm a big fan of like speed and brevity, you know, so if it helps you, great. If it, like if you do 20 sales calls with it and you do 20 sales calls without it and you get the exact same result, then I would ditch it.

Okay, cool. Thanks. Yeah.

Sweet as nitesh.

Hey, can you hear me?

Yeah.

So I had two nitty gritty questions. The first one was around, can you just walk me through, like the improve, like when we're selling something improvement based. The, like, how much do you have to make them aware of the problem? Like, the cause of the problem?

You're gonna have to. You're gonna have to break that one down for me a little bit more. Something improvement based.

Do I sales or business coaching?

Okay.

These type of things. Because I said multiple things at the moment. So because we do the what shifted.

Right.

That makes them realize. But then from there, those question things, like, what do you feel like is maybe missing with your approach? Or like, what do you feel you're doing or not doing? Like, those questions, what is a good enough answer and do do. Is that something we should do? Because, you know, you've been changing stuff.

I mean, like, I think most of those questions end up with the same answer. I don't know. That's why I'm here.

Yeah, exactly.

So I just think they're stupid questions. Right. Like, I just don't like them. So. And it's not that they're bad, but it's like they would be a. They would be a use in case you're not getting any answers and you're having to like, kind of wander around and probe. Hey, what do you think you're doing or maybe not doing that might be causing you to this? Well, I'm not really sure. That's why I'm here. Okay. But if you thought about it, you know, I mean, like, it's. It's it's just a diff. It's a, It's a. It's a fine way of doing it, but it's difficult because you really need to know exactly where you're going and what you're doing. If you're, if you're asking those questions, hoping that, like, they're going to give you the answer that allows you to just kind of seamlessly push them down. That's not the line of questioning for you to go. Like, that's the line of questioning where, like, being very, very neutral and you're quite good at what you do, you know, all the possibilities and you're totally fine with like, batting them back on track because you can get some great answers from those. But unless you really know how to handle the vagaries and to push people to give you the right answers, like, I just don't think it's a good line. So it's a much more advanced line of questioning.

So rather than that, where should we go? Like, if again, I want to switch that section so then literally just don't ask it and move towards, like the. How long have you been feeling that all those questions.

I, I mean, like, you selling sales training.

I sell sales training. And then I also said, like, business coaching offer and iterating offer.

So.

Right, yeah.

So, yeah, what I would say is that you just like, first of all, minimum questions is better. So the less questions you ask, the.

Better because there's less room for interpretation.

Less room for error. Right. You know what I mean? Obviously, within reason. Do like one question. Do you want to do it and see what happens? But all questions stack on top of each other. And so I can't really answer the question because, like, the questions stack, right? So if you just like remove two or three of them and then go, oh, so I should remove them? And I go, like, I don't fucking know. Jimin Mohammed. You have to buy it, mate. You don't just log in the things. Don't talk. Right? Like, it's a buy, buddy. And then don't ask me any more questions, sorry. So like, everything stacks on top of each other. So if you can't just like pull questions in and out like, it's. It's not a.

It's not a game.

Okay. I guess, like the last one is so we get the answer of, like, what shifted for them that made them feel they want to get something new in place and we get like a good answer after probing. Is the next line of question just typically, like expanding it, like, how long have they been feeling that way? Because I've been just noticing your calls and trying to, like, make script out of it.

Yeah, but like, making a script out of someone's calls, it's not about what they say, it's about why they're saying it. Yeah, right. So you got to have a look at, like, was there a specific reason for that? This is why, like, reviewing other people's calls isn't that beneficial to you. Right. Reviewing your own calls is far more beneficial. Because again, like, me giving you that advice, it could be good or it could be tremendously detrimental to you. Because, like, I'm not sure how you're executing these things. You know what I mean?

Chances are, assuming I executed well.

Well, no, I'm not going to execute it well, because the questions that you're asking, right. Are making me think that you're lacking a fundamental understanding of some of the baseline principles. So I'm going to assume that your execution is not good, right? Because, like, when you ask me a question like, can I just remove those? Right? I go, oh, that's a. Like, no, you can't do that.

Right?

Because it causes a whole lot of fucking problems. I don't know what stacked before it or stacked after it. You know, I mean, and so, like, sales is complicated, but it should be. It's simple. People over complicated. And so what you want to do is you want to get, like, it doesn't really matter what questions you ask. It's the underlying intent of the question that's more important. So, like, the. The wording of it can be done in, you know, an infinite number of ways. But essentially, like, you have to figure out what line you're gonna go down. And just line you're gonna go down is gonna be like, the line that I go down is the line of speed. But that doesn't mean it's the right line for you. Because, like, I'm really good at controlling calls. So when someone is on a call with me and people can, like, go all crazy in YouTube comments like, oh, that wouldn't work on me. Yes, it probably would, because I'm really good at talking to people. You know what I mean? So, like, I want to go, what are you here for? Which is the overarching goal, then I want to go like, what are the. What are you doing about it? What are the problems associated with the things that you're currently doing to get the goal? But I'm not going to talk about, like, the things that have been, like, if they. I know, I use Fitness because it's an easy one because everyone sort of in their own life experienced the fitness journey. It's like I don't care what you're doing for your day to day fits regime, I want to know what you're doing to ramp it up. And if they go, okay, but over and above that, like what are you doing to actually kind of accelerate your.

Progress because you've been in that plateau.

For a while, they go, oh nothing, why not? What shifted recently to where you want.

To start doing that?

Okay, why is that? And then I'm going to probe and clarify my way down and then I'm going to go to like a rationale type question, right?

Yeah, okay, Right. All right.

But it's because I'm going to probe and clarify my way down to that point. Do you know what I mean? So like I don't like spending lots of time in problem. Right. Because I do more solution based selling now if I'm just that B2B. If I do, I'm not doing that now. Business coaching is not B2B.

Yeah, right.

But like if I'm doing like, like software sales like for my software company, a lot of it is spent in problem because it's a totally different sale. You know, it's the same structure but it's a like completely different emphasis on different parts of it because like it's a different process. Yeah.

I mean and people that I was saying like remove it like without context, right?

Yeah. So there's no, there's no answer to the question.

Describe what you meant by like what are the associated problem? Like you said something like that. Like what are they doing about it and something. Next you said.

The problems associated with the thing that they're doing. Right. So it's like what are the problem is like what are the problems associated with the current situation?

Can you give an example of it?

Like.

Well if I want them, if they're here to lose weight, right. And they're, they've like been doing XYZ for a period of time and then it's like, okay, so what are the problems associated with xyz?

Like why it's not working?

Well, you can't ask that question specifically because you're not going to.

No, I mean the answer we are looking for is like why it's not working, right?

Not necessarily. So I want the problems that are associated with it. So like is it. I'm really looking for more like it's too slow or it's not effective enough or like it's too Hard. It's like not, I'm not like, I'm looking for more specifics rather than just like a full outcome base.

It's not working.

It's not working is like, it's just too overarching and too obvious because like they, they wouldn't be there, they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the fact that it wasn't working. Right. The problem is like super self evident.

Right.

Like they fat need lose weight or like they suck. Sales need to get better. Right? Like that's the problem. It's pretty self evident. And then like from, from there you.

There's a whole bunch of different rabbit.

Holes that you can go down. But I try and keep it more towards the point of I think what is changed recently to where you want to ramp what you're doing or increase or whatever it may be. I think it's just a better line of questioning, which goes for my personal style of selling. It leads more to a solution based conversation faster, which I think like people will, people will buy off hope way more than they'll buy off problem. And I think like science would prove me right on that. You know, like with hope, people will like endure lots of hard things without hope. They won't, you know, and so I think it's just a. Yeah, there are.

Yeah, yeah.

I have one quick, quick, quick question. The question which.

Can I ask it or let's go.

Back to you because that was I think three.

Let's go with Yo, Yoav.

Hey.

Yeah, so my question is around building the gap, actually. I'll give you some context. So it's a lead generation offer, it's a pretty new one. And basically they come in through email and then there's like a setting call, then closing call. And some of the issues I'm facing right now is building sort of a numbers gap because these people, they want commercial leads that are cleaning businesses and some of them are just doing like residential and they don't know exactly like how much they would charge for a job, given that it just varies a lot based on square footage, etc. And they don't know exactly how much they can take on. So I'm having a difficult time just being on the same page with like the numbers and like how much of a gap they would have if they had more leads, how much they can convert, et cetera. So then it's a little bit big.

Okay. Do you outbound these people once they email or like which part of the conversation are you struggling with?

So that's like in the closing call. So there's a setter doing outbound and then also doing outbound, but then it's on the closing call.

What's the problem that they. That they establish on the set call.

To book the call.

They want to get more commercially. So usually they're either mostly doing residential, they're doing some commercial, and they want to.

That's the outcome. What's like. Have you read the script of the setter?

Of the setter? Yeah, we're using sort of the same script. And the problems is they're not able to actually generate enough the same.

So you guys say the same things on the call.

The same things. We have similar script, although it's not exactly the same. This applies though, when the setter is setting them and also when I'm setting them, like on the clothing. It's the same. Same issue.

Okay.

So the problem is that they aren't speaking to enough decision makers. They don't really know how to find them, et cetera. They're not very good at that part.

Yeah.

And they know maybe how to residential, not to commercial. So that's the problem. Like the numbers just building a clear gap on the numbers and being on the same page.

Okay, and when do you. Like when do you go through that with them, or do you just wait till the pitch and then that's kind of the objection that you get?

No, no, no, that's before that. So I would get sort of like before he starts speaking. What were you doing about that? All that? What have they done in the past? And I would do sort of an ideal criteria of like a lead generation. Then I would say I would ask them something like how many actual clients are they looking to take on, like per month? Something like that. And then I kind of go into like, how. What percentage are expecting to close and how much I would actually be worth for them. Like. Like ballpark. And that's sort of the difficulty. They're not really sure how much it would be worth them because they're saying it just buried too much and we're not really sure about exactly the exact number. So that way it start to really build the gap at the end on what their ROI would be and if it's worth it for them, et cetera.

Okay, but these people have a business or no?

Yeah, they do have a business. They're cleaning business. They're mostly doing residential. Some of them are doing some commercial.

But also, do you know the commercial?

It can vary in commercial. Do I know the commercial rates in the Area. Sometimes it can be like 1000 for a job. It can be like 1500. But it also depends because some people.

Hours or size or square meters or like, there's got to be some sort of.

Yes. Square based on the Square based on the square footage. And also depends on, like, if they're doing, like, pressure washing, what type of cleaning they're doing, and then what state. Because it's in multiple states.

Yeah, sweet. So, but do you have, like. So you're looking at people transitioning from just residential to residential to commercial as well.

Right.

So they're going into a new venture. Do you have the information to be able to give them a. Hey, this is basically what it, like.

What it should be.

Okay. So I should have, like a very clear. Exactly what the numbers are per. Per job. And then I should just kind of tell them, like, if you're looking for this type of business, it'll roughly be this, like.

Yeah.

Per job.

Well, I mean, like, I don't know how to solve that problem because if they don't know it and be your whole office making them transition, like, I would assume that as part of the sale, you would go, like, how aware are you of, like, the difference between residential and commercial? And what's the reason for wanting to switch? All right, cool. Hey, do you know kind of like what the standardized rates are? Yeah. Sweet. All right, cool. Let me just take you through it. This is pretty standardized rates. Does that sound about right to you? Am I in the ballpark? Yep. Sweet. Okay, perfect. So and then from there, you can, like, build the gap from there. But if you don't give them the intel, like, there's no way for them to know. But you do have to do that relatively early on, otherwise it's going to sound like you're. You're trying to, like, trick them at the end.

Right. So would you ask that, like in the. In the outbound setting call, where do you just kind of give that information there? Sometimes they do have some commercial. But, like, it can depend a lot. There's a sort of a range that depends on which client they bring on, if they bring on a bigger client or smaller one. Yeah, but, like, that's for them to say that.

That's one thing that, like, pisses me off about humans is they go, I don't know. It varies. It's like, yes, dickhead. That's why there's a average. Like, the average is this right? You know what I mean? You can just say average per square meter is this. There's add ons is this like that? But that is the average, right? So your average gig will be this per square foot. Yeah, I mean, and so if.

Okay, so the biggest thing is I need to have a much clearer understanding of exact numbers for otherwise like you're confused.

You know, it's hard to sell when you don't know.

It's hard to sell when you're confused.

So like I would do that probably somewhere before criteria.

Okay, okay, that's sort of there. Okay. And that applies to really every other. Because like for example, sales training, they say like you're able to build up the skills, etc, maybe someone wants to get 10k, 20k, 50k, it doesn't matter. And then how far away are you? But like for these types of other types of businesses like this, then it just takes a much clearer understanding of the exact numbers to be on the same page. Is that correct?

I mean like, well, yes and no. Because like if someone's selling sales training, like if I'm selling someone who sells.

Widgets and they get $14, right. Like, you know, I'm gonna have to know that.

If I don't know, I'm.

Gonna have to extract the information from them because like it's very difficult for me to get somewhere from 10k to 20k a month. Who makes $14 commission per sale? Let's just don't create the trail, right? So it's a very difficult proposition. And so I'm probably gonna have to like sell it in a different way where it's like, hey, yes, you can do this to make more money now, but the goal is, do you want to be selling widgets that gets you $14 commission for rest of your life? No. Okay, what would you idea like to be selling? What kind of skill set would you need to have to be able to confidently transition out of it? And so like you're solving a slightly different problem then, right? But like, so you have to have an understanding of like the use case and the problem sets and then like the landscape. One of the things like when I was running seventh, I put together a comprehensive training manual for the reps on all of the different sort of sales industries and what standardized like comp plans are, right? Because like I needed that when I was selling it, right? And so like I needed to know like, how are solar sales guys paid? How are like roofing sales guys paid? How are H Vac sales guys paid? How are door to door, you know, cold callers, like, how are they paid? So that way I could like go, okay, so you're doing this. Oh, okay. So, you know, like, run me through standardized. What we see commission structures look like this standard deal size. This is like kind of your standard sales process. They go, oh, yeah.

So now, like, I'm talking their language immediately.

I can even use like, you know, like, real estate agents don't call it. They call it gci, right? Gross commissionable income. You know what I mean? And so, like, but like, that's not their take home. They take home about half of that. So there's a third of that. Then it's taxes, right? So like someone's like, oh, Yeah, I make 500 GCI. I'm like, oh, so you're broke? Yeah, I mean, it's like, I know that's like 80k, you know, I mean, I don't say 80k is broke because it's not. But like, I just pulled the number.

Out of my house, right?

So. So it's like, I'm like, dude, come on, man. Like, we both know that ain't. Yeah. I mean, so it's like you have to speak the language otherwise one, you get bamboozled by it. But two, you. It gives them the confidence that you know what the fuck you're talking about, you know? So like, if you're. If you're residential, like, know some of the residential and commercial cleaning jargon, you know what I mean?

Okay. So biggest thing is just need to have a much more comprehensive, like, understanding.

And you don't even have to go.

Into it deeply, but the mere fact that you know and you can like, hey, like, how many square feet are you slinging these days?

Like some shit like that, I don't.

Know, there might be some jargon or informs or some shit, right, that they use, and you like, immediately can start speaking their language. They will instantaneously have more trust for you, right? Like, if someone is for. This is a really, like, kind of sort of semi specific example, but it's very apt is like, if someone is religious, okay? Like, which I am.

There's.

There is a distinct difference between leadership and stewardship, right?

So if I'm talking to someone who.

Like, has faith and they are like a business owner, right? And I go, and I want to teach them how to be a better business owner, how to, like, grow their business. I go, hey, this sounds more like stewardship rather than leadership for you. Yeah, it is. Okay, cool. So what do you need to do to be the best shepherd to your flock?

Do you know what I mean?

So, like, changing the wording creates way more significance because it's more specific. And that is one of the beauties of the English language is like we have the most specific language that exists. Like it's not even close. And so being able to use the language that we have, which is the most beautiful language on the planet, I'll argue that to the cows come home. And I can argue it more eloquently and more comprehensively because I have more words available to me.

Right.

You know what I mean?

So it's like, it's fake.

Fantastic.

And use that, use that tool to your advantage. Because like, the cool thing about, you know, some words is that even if people don't understand the exact meaning through context, they can, you know. So I, I just think like those, those types of things that I think especially when you're in like more professional based offers and they really set you apart and they are such a small thing that can just elevate your entire sales.

Yeah, okay, that definitely helps. And then one more small question around that, actually it's more about like this, the setting portion. So there's a lot of the people that they're coming in, they're maybe they've been burned before, et cetera. And they're basically asking like, is it like an upfront or how does like that work or something? They don't want to pay anything upfront. And I usually just say, yeah, it's pretty custom. Let's really get into all that. And I kind of just ask them like what they would need more specifically. Put it back on them. Is there any, like potential frames you would put for them or anything else like that to maybe lower a bit of resistance potentially before setting the closing call.

Listen, like, your tonality sounds like, your.

Natural demeanor sounds like you're someone who's quite disarming, I would say. And so like, I would have a, I like to have a staged approach. I don't like to worry too much about frames or anything, but it's like just have a staged approach.

Yeah. Things I don't usually use. Friends.

Yeah, yeah. First is like, hey, listen, I'm more.

Than happy to go through all that at this stage. Not quite enough information, but on the next call, I'll go through that in some detail if you'd like. But yeah, the second would be like, you can, you can be like, hey, like you're a cleaner, right? Yep. Sweet. How much to clean my house and if they go, well, how many I sorry, I haven't got time. I just want to know like the number. And they go, oh. And they go you have to know what you're in for before you can quote. So, like, I have enough information to be confident that I think I can solve your problem, but I don't have enough to accurately quote you. Would it be okay if I just get some more information on the next call? Because, like, obviously we don't have much time today. And then I can go through all.

Of that in detail.

Like, would that be okay with you? And then the third one is like, if they, if they are cheeky and they go, well, it's 500 bucks. And you go, perfect. Because I've got a 19 bedroom, you know, mansion at the top of a hill that's six stories. So, like, if you can do that for 500, because my current cleaners quote me like six grand. They're like, oh, it's like, mate, see, don't be a right. We can play this game all day, you know? So like, those are like my three stages.

And then if they are pushing after.

That, I just tell them.

Okay, and.

Then I'll just pitch them there and then, because like yellow.

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. And then the rest is that we're just able to build a big enough gap. If the closing cost is good enough, then it doesn't really matter if there's an upfront at the end because it actually would help them. It would be working for what they're looking for and everything makes sense as long as I never told them specifically. No, something different. I just said it's custom and at the end it's upfront and it's what they're looking for. That makes sense, correct?

Yeah, absolutely. All right, perfect.

I appreciate your help.

No worries. All right, nitesh, back to you, buddy.

I'm happy to jump again. Alrighty, so I wanted to ask the second question, which was around I got slightly confused in the first solution. Awareness. Actually not confused, but like, I started implementing the way you started explaining, which was, yeah, you know, what have you been doing about solving the problem? How is that different to before you and I started speaking? Have you been out there looking for like different ways or like proper advanced training to help yourself get to X, Y?

Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's at a, it's at a different time.

Right, so how did that change it?

Well, because one is far more specific because it's.

It again, it's after a part where you would build quite a specific gap, have quite a specific solution and then ask them like before you started talking about them looking for ways too. And Then insert extremely specific answer. Right? And so it's a, it's a question that you know the answer to, which is a lead in to your criteria question. So it's a setup question.

Okay.

Yeah, because they already told you like you were telling me, which was like, oh, it's not fast or it's very slow or all these problems that they told us. It's like a lead into that. Is that what you mean?

No, no, no. It's a lead in to your criteria question. The criteria question is looking for specificity.

On what they want from a.

Solution mechanism.

Okay, if you don't know what that.

Means, I can explain it. So just ask me. Because like, so the mechanism of the solution would be. Let's just say it's a sales coaching program, right? Hey, before you start talking about that, looking for ways to actually, you know, kind of increase your sales skill, maybe get less objections so you can get to this, this, this, right? Like quite specific, you know, I mean. Yeah. And it's like, or like, you know, or like what have you been doing? And if they go blah. And then I go, okay, so like what is your ideal criteria when it comes to a coaching or training program that you think puts you in the.

Best position to be able to achieve that outcome?

And so that's a mechanism because it's like, oh, I want accountability and I want group training or one on one.

I want feedback, I want this.

They're gonna then supply you or they most likely won't supply you with anything. And then that's your opportunity to start inserting the core parts of the pillars of your presentation.

Meaning like the features in a way, Right?

Sure, yeah, the features, yeah.

Features.

Yeah.

Because the features will be the exact things they will say what we discovered in the original discovery that be right.

To say, no, the features should be the pillars of your presentation.

Okay?

Right. Because like, so if I do one on one training, right, like one on one training is whatever it. But like it's feedback.

Okay.

When people want one on one training, they want feedback. And so someone's, you know, if you're like, what's an ideal criteria that you're looking for in a coaching or training program that puts you in the best position to achieve X. Right? So it's, it's the, it's the specific mechanisms that they need in order to get a good result. Right? So you know, it's like I want feedback or you know, I want someone reviewing my calls or you know, I want to be able to learn how to handle, handle Objections better and stuff like that. And that's where you would then take.

What they're saying, distill it down into like one of the, one of the pillars of your presentation. Because that's like just a far easier way to then make that presentation feel.

Far more bespoke and make it feel like it solves their problem.

Because like it should solve their problem.

You know, this will be very specific to our feature and the first one would be more specific to. Now the first one is like, oh, I haven't done anything. And that's what they're going to respond with at the end of the day.

Or five different fucking programs. And then, then you go into a different. Like you're going to end up in the same place. But like, like, oh, like what would your experience like? And that's where you're going to uncover like that, that, that that section is designed to like. It's to set up your criteria and uncover potential objections. I've done nothing. Why not?

Right, like you might go more into that.

Like. Well, what's really stopped you? Like I said, I've only just been looking at YouTube. Yeah, okay. But like this is a pretty specific problem that you know about. Like what's actually stopped you from doing stuff. Right. Well, I mean I tried. I had, I've. I've had a few calls with who, why and what held you back from.

Actually we're talking about the pre handling stage, right? Yeah, yeah, that was, that was a very good perspective. I was thinking, why are we asking twice? But when you don't like it will give a different answer. That makes a lot of sense. I have a lot of questions, but you can answer other ones again if no one has.

Cool. No, I. I's good.

And ask away.

All right, Austin.

I was just gonna like the role play of the problem. So it kind of goes in line with Natasha's talking about too.

So for sure. Who's a good roleplay partner is someone who can actually. Who can. Who can spin.

I'm down.

Yeah.

Who.

I can do it.

It's no problem.

Who's the first one that's built, Dennis?

Me?

Yeah. I thought it was you. You look like someone who can spin. Like in a good way.

I mean in a good way.

All right, what's the. What do you. What do you sell, Austin?

Fitness. So fitness, nutrition, accountability, weight loss.

Snap a do. All right. Outbound, Inbound.

Like so outbound. Booked in. In person consultation. They're in studio.

Okay. Sweet as. Let's do it. All right. In person.

I love in person. You can really. You can really with people. It's good.

Let's do it.

Cool. So I know we talked a little bit on the phone, really looking for some possible help with weight loss, dropping weight getting. Getting in shape, all that fun stuff. Is that right?

Yes.

Okay, well, what were you hoping to get out of the meeting today, man? What brought you in?

Well, I talked to other guy and he kind of let me know that you guys could probably help me lose some weight, get a six pack by Christmas.

Okay. Sweet. I guess. Have you been making any progress on your own? Yeah, getting the six pack.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Tell me more about that, like what you've been doing.

Lifting weights, going on walks.

Do you feel like you're making progress, would you say? Yeah. Okay. How close do you feel like you are to getting that six pack?

Well, hopefully. Hopefully about 55 days.

Okay.

Yeah. But I don't know. Take longer. I don't want it to take longer, though.

Okay.

All right. I guess two issues.

Yeah. I never get that. That's crazy, right?

Yeah. Your first question, what was you. Can you send me your first question? Like your. Just your first few lines again?

Yeah. So it's like usually talk to him a little bit on the phone. So I'm like, all right. Talked on the phone about possibly getting some help with weight loss and getting in shape and all that fun stuff.

Yep.

And then what's the.

What's the next question?

What were you hoping to get? Other meetings today?

Yes.

Don't ask that because it's going to like an alpha dog is going to force you into an early pitch straight away.

Straight away.

Right. So don't. You don't need to. I wouldn't ask that question. I would. I would like very much control it. Right. So in person you can set a frame, I think, quite like, hey, so the point of today's meeting is this, right? Because you're in person, you can control them way more. So, like setting a frame like that perfectly fine.

I would highly recommend it. Right.

Because I've been cutting out the frame entirely. What I've been doing. I used to do it, but.

Yeah. So put that back in because it will constrict like alpha male and it will constrict like any left and right of arc really quickly.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't like it on zoom calls and shit because, like, anyway.

There'S whole different reasons, but it's complicated, so.

But in person I really like it.

Right. So.

And then just be like, hey, a point. Today's call is this, and then go boom, straight into your first question, which should be like, what's the outcome that you want? What are you doing?

So what's the goal?

What are you doing?

Yeah, so it's like, I'll be you, right? And you be a prospect. It's like, hey, Austin, looks like you. You know, we had a chat on the phone. You want. You want to come in about maybe losing some weight, getting lean, whatever it may be. We'll sort of walk through that. The point of today's meeting is that I want to kind of do an.

Assessment, figure out where you're at, where.

You want to go, and then we can talk about a plan and any.

Potential next steps after that.

Does that sound good?

Sounds good.

All right, cool, man. So, like, what is it that kind of, you know, I know we went through, but what does it kind of cause you to reach out and actually, you know, spend the time booking a consultation?

Well, really want to drop some weight.

Okay.

Like, 25 pounds.

20.

Okay. By when?

By Christmas.

By Christmas.

What have you been doing up until now?

Well, like, kind of light walks, maybe lifting once or twice a week.

Okay. Now what? Are you gonna lose the weight? Not, like, just kind of maintain the dead bug.

Not much of anything.

Okay.

Why not?

Oh.

I don't know.

I guess I just kind of got used to where I met.

So why, like, why change now? What's. What's. What's come up recently to where you're like, I need to get this off, and, like, for some reason, by Christmas, have you got some sort of photo.

Shoot by Christmas, or you got some.

Sort of, like, what's going on?

No, I think really just kind of fed up with myself, in a sense. Kind of feel lethargic all the time.

Okay, and how long has that been going on?

Five years. Five years? At least.

Okay.

But, like, so what's actually changed? Like, because five years, a long time to be dealing with the problem, and now it has to be solved by Christmas.

Right.

So either what's happening at Christmas or what's actually happened recently to where you're like, I'm actually fucking sick of this. Because, like, five years a long time, just be, like, chill with something.

And now all of a sudden, you're not.

Yeah, well, I think, really, I just. Yeah. I mean, I don't feel confident when I'm, like, hanging out with family.

Okay.

Or just in general.

And I assume you're hanging out with family a whole bunch.

What's that?

I assume you're probably about to Hang out with family, a whole bunch of.

Yeah, we got, like, three family events the next month.

Who's the person that you think of.

When you think you don't feel comfortable in front of family in the way you are right now?

Probably.

My dad.

Okay. Why is that?

Well, he's. He's always kind of used to run marathons and stuff. It's always been kind of a role model for me, in a sense.

Oh, okay. All right. So you want to come home for Christmas? Dad's like, mate, you're in good shape.

Yeah, that'd be great.

All right, sweet. So, like, up until this point right now, like, what have you been doing?

Nothing. On top of just the walks and listen every now and then.

Okay, sweet. Time to make a change. You actually want to start doing something new?

Yeah.

Now or like, next week?

Now.

Okay, sweet. So what do you feel like you need in order to kind of put yourself in the best position to where. When you actually go home for Christmas? Dad's like, fuck, you're in good shape.

Oh, yeah.

Like a really structured something. Structured.

Okay.

Someone over my shoulder.

Okay.

Why is someone over your shoulder important?

It's just that kind of a push, like having someone watching you. I just can't do it on my own.

Son, you're not good enough. And then you'll just do a few extra squats.

Is that what we're doing? I can do that. It's fine.

That could be enough.

Yeah, I'll just put some Old Spice on and pretend to be your old man.

Right? Right.

Yeah, it'd be great.

Yeah.

Sweet.

That's right.

All right, cool. So let's just say you're able to put those things in place, look over your shoulder, give you a structured plan, like, you know, know, obviously looking great and having your. Your dad be all proud and all kind of stuff. Fantastic goal, but, like, tangibly on the scale or like some sort of, like, empirical measurements. Like, what do you. What do you want to achieve in between now and what, like the sort of six.

Six weeks that we have?

Yeah, at least £20.

Okay, so. And over the last six weeks, what have you lost?

I probably put on £3 last six weeks.

All right, so we got to go from putting on three pounds over six weeks to losing 20, 25 over the next six. It's a pretty significant shift.

Yeah.

Like night and day. Yep.

All right, cool. And are you ready to start putting.

That work in now, or are you.

Going to, like, wait till next week.

To start doing it?

Do you have five weeks?

Definitely. Now Got to get this done.

Okay.

And I think it's important to have like, something in mind to where you're like. Because, like, fitness is difficult, right? Like, I'm going to ask you to do things you don't that are physically painful. I'm going to ask you to stop enjoying things that you enjoy.

Right.

Or for the sake of a future goal that as long as you do everything right, you have a good chance of hitting. And then I'm going to ask you to take time out of your day and pay money to do it. Okay. So in order to achieve all those things and actually get the outcome right and be in that small percentage of people that are happy with their physique, right. We have to have a goal in mind and we have to have something specific. So I know you talked about your dad, but like, that's more of a. That's a thought and I want to attach a feeling to it. Does that make sense? So when you walk in, right, knowing that, like, you're in great shape, how does that actually feel?

It'll like, stress free, kind of just clear head, not worried about anything. It feels great.

Feels great. Okay, and how does that compare to how you walked in last year?

I mean, I'd be a whole different person.

Okay, and what happens if you just kind of keep doing exactly what you're doing?

Going for a few walks with a.

Bit of weights, I think gain another.

Three pounds over the next, you know, little bit. Like, what happens then?

Oh, I never, never feel like I actually became the person I really want to be. Stuck.

Okay, so you ready to start making some changes? Because, like, it's.

Obviously we're gonna have to work together.

Pretty closely over the next six weeks to achieve a result like that. So, like, I need to know that, like, this is that you're in a position to where you want to commit.

I can definitely make it happen.

All right.

And the base of what we do, when I actually work for you, what.

I can do from here is kind of take you through what we do.

How we do it, and then we.

Can talk about next steps. Does that work for you?

That works.

Sweet. So, like, you can do it quick. Obviously, like, probably would have probed a little bit more and stuff like that, but, like, it doesn't, like, they sort of don't need much more than that. A good prospect, Right. Like opening up. But I find that most people, if you just ask them the question, they'll usually give you the answer. You know what I mean? And it's about, like, probing Further, like, I had to probe you to get to the point where you were like. And then I asked you a very specific question, right? Because you said, I just feel a bit uncomfortable around family, which is going to be where most people stop, right? Whereas I ask, who's the person that you're thinking of when you're uncomfortable around family? Right? Like, that's a really good question. That's the question that decides whether the guy buys or not. Because once I have that answer, he's buying for sure.

Right?

And so, like, that's the curiosity. That's like. That's experience, really. But it's like, I know when people say things like that there is a deeper meaning to it. And so I'm just going to get to the deeper meaning, which means I can sort of bypass all of the other shit. Because now I have, like, once make daddy proud, and you will give me whatever money I ask, right? If you're confident that I can supply that to you. Because it's not about losing 20 pounds. It's not about yada, yada, yada. It's about walking in and, like, knowing that you've done your best to, like, to, you know, be able to be confident in front of your dad, right? Which is like. And those kind of, like, those things are not uncommon, especially around this time of year, especially for things like weight loss, right? But they're the same for, like, anything. Make money, and it's the same for all that kind of shit, right? Like, and. Or business owners that want to grow their business. Like, most time there's some sort of underlying emotional reason for it. And, like, by understanding it and by being curious and by actually going through it, like, then you can find, like, the true motivator. And then at least people are then, like, making a decision based on all the factors. Whereas if, like, if that true motivator never really comes up, then it's really difficult to, like, for the person to, I guess, make an informed choice because.

They'Re sort of only talking about a surface level of things.

Does that make sense?

Makes sense. I'm gonna have to play this one back.

Yeah. All right, cool. I'm going to Luke's question just because he's an ass one yet. And then I'm probably gonna have to bounce out in a second. All right, Luca. I'm Anna.

Okay, good man.

I had a quick question. If there's two questions that I have. Sometimes when a client comes in and he's not that urgent or the pain is not really there, it's more Of a luxury, so to say. Or he makes it look like it's a luxury. How are you able to push maybe the pain points or make it more urgent so I don't have to fight with them in the end with objections, if that makes any sense, you know, to somehow show him that he is not okay with being okay, if that makes any sense. How would you. How would you approach that? And the second thing that I would love to know is what is your approach to correctly train how to learn sales the best way possible? What would you recommend me to do? Because I heard you say don't over train, do like twice, half hour a week, one hour twice, whatever it was. And how would you approach it to learn this the right way, what would you do? Or how would you do it? If you can start from zero, if you can go back, I don't have.

Time because that's like a 15 minute diatribe.

Right.

But I have time to answer the first one. Okay, Right. But I've answered the second one a few times. So, like, I think it'll be. I think it'll be somewhere, but I'll. I'll happily answer on the next session. So the first one was, I would dare say the problem that you're having is that, like, you're not probing to the next level. Like what I did with Austin. Right. So you're accepting the. Oh, I just feel a bit uncomfortable around family. That's it. Like, that's not enough to get people motivated, you know, I mean, because it's not specific enough. It's not, you know, I mean, it's not really. It doesn't like, drive the point home. Right. Specificity is key to making people associate.

Right.

So, you know, third. First person, third person.

Right?

So first person looking through your own eyes. Third person. Like, you know, a video game. Third person. The first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

So third person is a disassociative, like, form of like, emotion.

Right.

So, like, if I'm asking you to visualize and I'm like, picture yourself, you'll picture yourself like a third person. And that's a disassociative feeling because you're like watching yourself experiencing it. Whereas if I say, what is it like when you.

Right.

Hey, picture yourself going home, Austin, and your father's proud.

Oh, yeah.

Hey, what's it like when you walk in and you see, you put him in the right.

Yeah.

So you make it. So ask for specificity and keep probing until you get it right. And then sometimes you have to queue Up a reason for them. So, like, I gave him a reason to give me the next level. So I asked for, like, what's the goal? Lose weight. Why have that goal? Because I feel a bit uncomfortable, More probing. I feel uncomfortable around family because I have to ask him, like, three times, what's changed? Because five years is a long time. I had to keep asking him, like, that's why it sounds like he's an easy prospect. But I just kept asking him questions until I got to a depth that I was happy to move it along, whereas most people wouldn't have asked half of those questions and they would have had a much different conversation that would have taken much longer and not actually gone as deep. Does that make sense? So it's like, yeah, so it's about going, layer one, layer two, layer three. Layer one is like overarching goal. Layer two is like a specific.

Right.

Specific outcome. So it's like, I want to lose weight. I want to lose 20 pounds. I want to lose 20 pounds. So Doug loves me. Layer one, layer two, layer three. It's making sure that you get to those and the patience is getting to them when you need to get to them. I got to layer one very quickly. Layer two a couple minutes later, in a different section. Layer three was after criteria. I got a criteria because layer two was enough to get to the criteria. Then from there, I gave him some context of. I'm going to ask you to do some difficult things. In order for you to actually be able to achieve them, you're going to need some sort of motivating driver. So you give a reason. What is it like when you. So I contextualize it a little bit, and then that makes it so, like, oh, I'm in a better position to better achieve my goal if I have this. Okay, right. So it just makes it easier to ask. I could have just asked it, but sometimes it makes it easier to do it that way. Right. And so by putting them into that, then I get that layer three, and then I attach, like, I attach all that meaning and all that feeling to the outcome. And then I go, consequence question. And then go pitch.

Really?

How do you touch the meaning to the outcome? What do you mean by that?

Well, I attach all the feelings, right? The meaning, like, the actual underlying meaning. Like, they want to feel this. In order to feel this, they need to achieve that. In order to achieve that, they need to buy this.

Okay, right.

So it's about, like, people don't ask enough probing questions and they are satisfied with unsatisfactory Answers. And that comes from either a lack of understanding as to, like, what problem they truly solve or, like, what they need to get, or awkwardness, like, they don't like just asking the questions. But generally speaking, it just. It just comes from a lack of curiosity. Like, you don't actually. You don't.

Can't.

Curious, don't really care. Fair enough. There's no.

Like that.

But, like, not you. I'm just saying, like the ubiquitous you, right? The royal we. So it's like, it's a lack of curiosity on the prospect, you know? Whereas if you're truly curious and someone was like, yeah, I've. Yeah, I've been gaining weight for five years. You go, five years. What the kept you from doing something? Like, if there was your friend, you'd be like, what the are you doing five years? What are you, retard? And then it's like, yeah, I want to start doing something now. Like, surely your brain would go now. So you have done nothing for five.

Years, and now it has to be done by Christmas.

Like, that is a huge alarm bell in my head. And that is like, why the would you do nothing for five years? And now it has to be done in six weeks? There something must have happened, and I am not leaving until I find out what that something is. Or you're deathly afraid of something happening. And what is that thing that you're afraid of happening.

Right?

And it's like, oh, fuck, I'm very close to it, right? So, like, if, you know, if people are doing nothing, even if it could be four weeks, if someone tells me like that, you know, some say some.

Fucking business coaching or sales coaching, and.

They'Re like, oh, I'm just fucking sick of being broke. When did you become sick of being broke? Oh, man, I had the realization four weeks ago. In the last four weeks, what have you done? Nothing. So you're not really sick of being broke because you would have done something.

Four weeks ago, Jim.

Right?

So go deeper. Go two layers deeper. Be curious.

Yeah, be super curious. Assume you know nothing. If I start describing, like, describe my hand to me. Do you know what I mean? And you start going, oh, there's a line here and a line here. And I go, I don't see any of that. It's because, like, you didn't ask what side of the hand I was looking at. So now we're having a totally different conversation about the exact same thing. Because neither of us understands the context of the position. Because. And it's my responsibility as the rep to Understand that. So if someone's like, hey, describe my hand to me, I'll go, what side.

Are you talking about?

Which side are you looking at? Like, the first of all, ask a question, you know? And so that way you can understand landscape and then you can move forward and you get much better and deeper questions that way. Alrighty. I gotta give good stuff, everyone. I think at the very least, we.

All realize that I'm very good at this, which is always good. It's always good to let people know. Right.

That would just a couple, if you don't mind.

I'm probably not going to answer it.

But you can ask it because I have to go.

But like, when you said like, whooped, you realized four weeks ago and you haven't done anything about it, so it's not really that important to you or something along those lines of something that you would say to a client. Yeah, just direct.

I would say anything.

Perfect.

That doesn't mean that. That you should say it.

But I said, yeah.

Yeah, you got to know what. You got to know where you're going. You know, the more abrupt your question, the more squirrely it can get, the more skill it requires to keep it on track.

Right, Gotcha.

So really direct questions can be really good, but they can jar people.

Sometimes people need jarring smack them upside that, you know?

I mean, people don't know what's in their own best interest.

Right.

All right, guys, love your work. Appreciate you all. I got to go bite. All right, if you guys are watching this, go join the Patreon. Go do it now.