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What level of opportunity do you have?

Right.

Let me just stream this bad boy. All right, cool.

We're here, we're here.

I'm so techie it's insane. So it's a real question, right? So like if you are chock full of opportunity, then you will increase the friction to get onto that call. If you have reduced opportunity, then the whole point is to fill people up. So the key is to have a conditional logic set up to where or like an application. And you have like say two different versions or three different versions of the key questions. And those key questions will dictate if they go through Jeremy. Or you can do it where like, you know they have two different scripts, right? And so. Or you just change the qualifier. You know, generally speaking, I would err on the side of like in the beginning, less friction. So it would be like minimal questions necessary to make sure they're not a horrible lead.

Right.

And then from there I would then make it harder and harder. As long as I'm still keeping them full. What I really want to maintain is like a probably ideal world, you'd be at like 80%, like slot utilization rate. And slot utilization rate is If I have two sales reps that have 50 slots a week, I have 100 slots, I need to utilize 80 of them, which means I need to sit 80.

Right.

So you might double book some. You know what I mean? You might, you know, there's a bunch of different options there. But the key is to have a system that you can change quickly. What's the, what's the 20 spread?

Is that just for like second second calls and like follow ups or what?

It's really because like if you're any more than that, you need more reps. Because if someone gets sick now you're at 150 capacity, you know, and so now what happens is then you have to go major dq and then your CAC massively increases. Makes sense. So like if you can, if you hit 80, then you get another rep, okay, go down to 60, work up to 80, I mean, get another rep, right? And if you run it 100%, you're just going to cook everyone all the time. And if anything happens, anyone gets sick, anyone misses half a day, then you're, then your CAC skyrockets.

Okay.

You're gonna, you're gonna budget and optimize the marketing based on that utilization rate. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And then, and then the other question.

I had is like, when you're the sales reps, we find obviously as you Know you're the king of like texting. Did you find with the sales reps they would use their own phone for like communication with clients or did you do that through clothes? Like we, I find it so much better when it's like this. But you sales reps, should they be.

Using their own phone to be texting clients?

Should they be using it on the like just call or whatever the one we use, like what are your, I.

Mean you should obviously be on that. So like what. There's a couple of answers to that. The first one is that in the United States the legal requirement is that you cannot. It has to be a number provision to the business. So that's like number one.

Right.

The second thing is that like if you can get them to do that in the CRM, I would, I much prefer my phone personally.

Me too.

Right, me too. So you know, like. But there are really good iMessage things, you know what I mean? Like we're building iMessage out right now for dialing and it's kind of interesting. It's a farm, just an iPhone. But like I would have, I would have. The best thing that you can do I think is have them do it in the CRM. If you, if that's not working fast enough then do it personal phone, but then log it in the CRM, you know, because you sort of want to know the communication that's happening and you want to know that communication is happening because what, you don't want to have a situation where they go oh no, I promise man, I've been messaging them, you know, and it's like prove it. That's such a shitty thing. Yeah, but I like, I like having a good amount of automations but not so much the rep doesn't have to do anything because your show rates will be significantly increased if your rep reaches out to them when they book a call. So my personal SOP is call is booked instant reach out now doing that in the CRM is great. Like it's the same, it's just as good but like I just find so many people, you know, you can get business WhatsApp too so you could do it on there and you can usually integrate the WhatsApp into the CRM so you can kind of WhatsApp people. But I, I just go like hey, just sort of your books on a call with me. There's a couple things I'd like to go over on the call but is there anything, any information that I can give you or anything that I need to prepare for to where we have a really productive call. To me, I do that and I have like 90 show rates.

That's it. Okay.

Like, it's a huge difference. Yeah. And it's. And then what I'll do is then if they. As soon as they start communicating with me, like, I'll then try and move them forward. So try and bring them closer to me. Also, there's a change in Google Calendar to where. Like that happened in 2023, where Google Calendar doesn't auto accept. Yeah, that's.

That's a huge problem we have right now.

Huge problem.

So there's two things combat it. Well, there's two things. One is that your thank you page explains it.

Yeah. Right.

You get a little animated video. Hey, this is what you have to do. Go here. Boom. If you're having setters outbound people, you. The end of their call. Like their. Their process needs to have. Hey, can you. Hey, so I've got you all booked in. Can you do me a favor? Can you just open up your email real quick? Yeah, perfect. You just put me on speakerphone.

Okay, cool.

You should have received an email from us.

All right.

You see that? Yep.

Sweet.

Can you go ahead and hit accept for me? Otherwise it's going to make yours maybe and the guys just might. They might forget to turn up or something. You got that? Okay, sweet. So that's part of it. If you're not setting, then you explain it on the thank you page.

Right.

And then the sales rep is the backstop. And the last thing they do every day is have a look at everyone for tomorrow and they contact everyone who has not accepted the invite.

Okay.

That's like you do that and it fixes the problem.

Okay.

I mean, there is no workaround. There is no. This is what it is.

Right.

What's the message you send to them before the call?

As soon as they book in? Yeah, as soon as someone books in, I always have a notification. Someone books in, I get a text that's just from the whatever calendar booking system. The closer gets a text. Then I would just have xyz. If I type in xyz, it automatically propagates the message. Then I just put their name in. Then it just goes, hey, name. It's just Matt from xyz, but looks like you just put the call on my calendar. There's a couple of things that I'd love to go over with you, but is there any information that I need to prepare to make sure that we have a more productive meeting?

Right.

And then if as soon as they start writing back, I'll just start chatting to them.

Yeah, right.

If it's, if it's like B2B, right, I'll say, hey. Or if it's like, for you, Jay, I'd be like, hey, how to look to your LinkedIn mate?

Looks great.

Like, looking forward to our chat. Like, that's just that little touch when it's B2B. Always go, Hey, I checked out your website and I always do. Because otherwise they go, our website's down. What do you mean? Yeah, I mean, so it's like, hey, I checked out your website. Looks like you're doing some cool stuff. Looking forward to our conversation. Yeah, I mean, so that's just, it's just, it just, you know, it just promotes people showing up. It promotes, you know, a better relationship, but also it starts and engages in the conversation, which means that you can pull people forward. If I have a, if I have a call that's canceled in two hours, hey, I'm not sure if you're available, but I just actually had someone reschedule if you'd like, I'm available in two hours. They go, oh, yeah, sick.

I can do that.

Like, sweet. Now that. Now their spot is now available, which can be booked through marketing or through etc.

Right.

And they're definitely going to show up and you're utilizing your time, you know, so that's just getting reps into the, like, into the. Because there's the skill set of like, of like, there's the skill of sales and there's the skill of making sales, and they're quite different. Learning how to make sales in any environment is like less of a talking skill set and more of a process skill set. And it's like setting yourself up, you know, do I farm my CRM? Do I have a referral process? Do I have a this process or this process, etc. Etc.

Yeah.

Sense, you know, and, yeah, that's how you set up like an ecosystem around yourself to where you can sort of make money consistently in the environment.

Well, and then the final question on that with dead, like, I was watching your video on the third, like the sales sniper stuff you used to do and you said, white time is dead time.

Do you have a script for the.

New guys for like lost leads and dead leads? Or would you just say just call them and like, give them value and get them on with the closer? Would you have the script?

You have a strategy on that? I think that there is something in there, I think about calling old leads, but generally Speaking. It's really just the tonality of the opener is the only thing you have to work on and you know, like an age lead script, let's say you're calling like final expense and it's age leads, right. Generally speaking, you, you come to it the, the opener and this wouldn't, I'll just, I'll transition to sort of make sense, but it's like, you know. Hey, Nick. Hey Nick, it's just Matt from xyz. It looks like you've reached out to us a while ago about getting some help with this. And I'm sorry, Matt, you probably got a ton of these phone calls, but for whatever reason our system hasn't updated like what ended up happening with that, right? So it's like you just very rarely get told to fuck off, right? And it's because like it's a customer service tone. I'm trying to help you and, and I'm calling out the fact that you probably had a ton of these calls, which they all have, except leads been sold 4,000 times, right. So that, and that like jovial kind of customer service tonality is what you want to take. So if it's an old lead, you can do something similar. It's like, you know, hey, it's just Matt, you know, I'm just, and I'm just new here. It looks like a while ago, I think you spoke to Devin about you know, possibly, you know, getting some, you know, PR to kind of advance your career. I'm sorry if you've been cold, but for whatever reason, man, our system just hasn't updated. What ended up kind of happening with that? And they go, oh yeah, had a bit of a chat and go, oh, okay. And so like, what have you, like, you know, it says here that you were looking to do xyz like.

You.

Know, and then you're sort of into it, right? But I find that people are always looking for a set follow up or something kind of structure and it just sort of doesn't exist. The reason being is because every individual is a bit different. So what I tend to do is just, just do it and then just see what happens, you know, Action. I just kind of follow up with people all the time and if they apply to me, whatever. If they don't, I'll try different things. But it's like I just need to have a top of mind strategy that keeps me top of mind. I find that having a visual pipeline works really well. So like I always had, I don't anymore, but I used to always Have a whiteboard with like 90 days, 60 days, 30 days, 14, 3, and then a dollar sign. And those were. There were columns. And then they had all the names of the people who were that far out from sale.

Right, right.

And then from there you have like a dollar value at the bottom of each one. Then if you have a no show, you just look up to that and go, oh, I mean, there's 50 grand somewhere right there. All right, guess I'll call those people. And they just try and edge people down. But I think it's just like, if it's top of mind, it just. Just becomes kind of who you are. Like the people who say, don't do follow up. And it's hilarious because, like B2B sales, for example, is like 96% follow up.

All of our sales are. It's all follow up. Like, it's like intro call. It's like, oh, two, three, five, and seven, nine touch points.

Yeah.

Like, that's most sales. You know what I mean? It's quite funny to see you just never sold anything.

But that's Josh's thing because he wants to sound good.

Because it's pr.

Yeah, it's all marketing. It's all a marketing play.

No pr. It's like you don't have to do.

Anything if you don't follow up.

You're. You're.

To be honest, I would. I would fire someone immediately. Yeah. I mean, but yeah, because, like, I think if I had to guess right Now, I'd say 80% plus, 90% plus of my calls are follow up, you know, because it's B2B and it's. It's software. So, like, what else are you gonna do? What are you gonna mindset someone into?

Like.

No, you don't have to check with your integrations team that this is. What if they say no? Well, then we're probably not going to do it. Oh, yeah, Makes sense. I suppose it makes sense. I wouldn't do it either. It's probably the move, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cool. All right.

Mo. Apollo Excel. It's a very unique name. Is that your. Is that your given name?

It's just my company name.

My name's.

My name's Mohammed and I just. Mow is like, easier.

So.

Yeah, man, I. I appreciate you doing these calls, by the way. It's just my first week here. I just had a quick question. Right, so just for some context, Matt, like, I run a lead gen for remodeling contractors, and you basically get them through, like, cold traffic, through, like, Facebook and Instagram ads and they're redirected to like a 8 minute sort of pre call video right after they book a call with me and then they hop on the call. So most of my leads are like a type, like, sales guys have been in on like tons of these agency calls before, so they kind of like bracket me with like every other marketer they've ever dealt with. So they know the game and they just, they just kind of don't respect the process. So when I ask like layered questions, like, they either joke about it or they just give me like, surface level answers. Just avoid to give me, you know, like, emotional ammo because they know that I can use it against them to like, make the sale, which is stupid, but I mean, if I reframe the same question, like, like a few times, they kind of get like, they push back hard or like, they kind of get like frustrated and like, it's usually because they've had like, some sort of bad experience with some company they've dealt with. So, I mean, like, my question basically is like, how do I ask like, emotional layered questions without triggering like, resistance or like losing frame to these like a type kind of prospects, you know.

I mean, I've sold that.

Right?

So, okay. And I used to ask people, right, Like, I know what you're doing. No, you don't. Trust me, dude. You don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, I. I've got you wrapped up. So, like, I'll answer this in two ways. One is how I would do it, okay? Like, I've got what they describe as big dick energy, okay? And so I use my big dick energy to my advantage, okay? Because, like, ain't nobody clowning on me, right? And that's quite clear and obvious when, When I'm so, like, I just don't take. And I'm very forthright with people and I'll still ask the questions.

Yeah.

What happens if you don't though? Okay, what's that gonna do? What, so you're gonna, you're gonna let that happen? Well, like, what's gonna do?

Okay, right.

So, like, it's a very. You gotta understand, like, you can ask the questions. It's the combinations of questions that. That is how it's perceived. So your tonality and your word choice, okay? Those two things together will give them. But if I go, so. So what's that gonna do to you? I go, what's that gonna do to you? It's almost like a. Yeah, you're disgusting, right? And so, like, it'll End up being a little bit more of an adversarial conversation.

Okay.

So there's that way of doing it, which I think can be a good way. The other way is to change a little bit how you sell and do much more of like a meta based selling solution, right? Where you, like, if you call out what you're doing and then you lean into it. I know what you're doing. What am I doing? You're trying to get this. All right, well, how else should I do it?

Okay.

If I don't establish the fact that you need this and want this and that, there's some sort of like, like, what's the point of me trying to do this? What do you want me to do?

Go.

It's $12,000 we're gonna do from here. Like, is that how you sell? What's, what's happening here?

Right?

So like when I sold seventh level, I did a, like, I used to call it like a fourth wall selling. So I would like, I would tell people what I was doing to them as I was doing it. And then when they would give me an answer, I go, oh, that's interesting answer. I'd go, time out on the roleplay. So you said this. And me as a sales rep, I'm analyzing it this way and it's kind of making me feel like, you're going to get this now. I'm done this to stop that. So you can't give me that objection later. But this is what I'm going to do from here and this is how I'm going to prevent that. Anyway, time in. So when you were saying this, like, what did you mean?

Right?

And they were up by it because I was going in and out. And then by the end of it, I would share my script. I go, hey, so what did you think of the call? They were like, oh, it was good. I was like, you know that was a script, right? Like, what? And I was like, hey, you want me show it to you?

Yeah.

I share my screen, go through the script and I go, remember when I asked you this? They go, yeah, I asked it like this to get this response. So now you can't give me a think about rejection. Sorry, buddy, but you can't. And then I would take them through the whole script and I go. And at the end I go, and now you're in the presentation and this is the part where you realize I'm so much better at this than you. That if you could be half as good as me, make five times the money. So what do you want to do from here, champ? And they would go, I want to do that, yeah. And the objection handling was different. They would go, that's a lot of money. And I'd say, why is a lot of money? They go, well, because, you know, I don't really have that much right now. And I go, why don't you have that much right now? They go, because I'm not really making enough sales. And I go, why is that? Because I don't have the skill. And I go, you want to change that? They go, yes. And I go, so what do you want to do? And they go, here's my money every time. Like it was fucking wow, right? But again, I made the sale for that sale because if I do a normal environment, it's the exact same principles. It's like take them through the same process, but you have to, like, you have to understand who you're selling. And then from there you get the same answers, but you just do it in different ways. And it's a problem solving process, right? So, you know, the way that you get better at that is that you start at the top and you go, okay, like what I'm going to do first of all is create consistency. Because if you're not doing things the same way every time, then, you know, anything that we do here is like, not even academic. It's sort of like, you know, it's just fucking verbal masturbation, right? It doesn't do anything. And so you want to get really consistent. And then from there, don't worry about outliers. Like, if someone comes in, you do something and nine times out of 10, they do it this way, and then one guy does it this way. Fuck that guy.

Who cares, right?

I could give 100 people 100 bucks and one of them is going to go, what? You haven't got 200? Fuck you. You know, like, that's just the way it is. So and so you have to learn, once you're consistent, then you can like just not worry about the outliers. And then from there you can start to make the tweaks and adjustments bit by bit and start to do it. When I sold that same offer, you know what I mean? And like, I, I would just be real forthright towards the beginning, but then there'd be this like natural softening throughout the process where I could really kind of like find out what, what was making them tick, you know, and then I found like, even these big, you know, Aussie bloke builder guys that were, you know, like, Calling everyone, you know, just doing crazy on the calls, right? Like, by the end of it, mate, I had them cut open. They were like, I just want to make my dad proud, you know? I was like, all right. But, like, you know, the belief of, like, I knew that they were happy to have that chat because, like, you know, I'm the dude who used to kill people for a living, and I'm happy to have that chat. So, like, you know, people are happy to do it. It's not like. It's just like. But they have to feel like.

That.

You don't have an intent. You know, dudes are real.

Like.

You know, there's. When it comes to having, like, serious conversations that go a little bit past the surface. Like, they have to feel like you don't have an intention to hold it against them, you know? So, like, if. I'm saying, if you're getting out a lot, your intention of making a sale is clear. So, like, it's not the intention of understanding the info so that you can see what's best for them. It's like a. I would like to use this information against you to make a sale.

Yeah, yeah.

It's probably coming out of my tonality maybe, and that's why they're catching it out and.

Yeah.

Where are you pointing it towards? I'm from Kuwait.

Yeah.

Okay, sweet.

Like, you don't, you know how much of an accent. Like, you know what I mean? But I think, like, yeah, I think that you just want to have a listen to your calls, and it's like you're either trying. I would. I would say you're probably trying to have a conversation that you're not having. So. So your tonality is matching what you want it to be, but not what it is. You know what I mean? And so just work on, like, becoming really consistent in the first part. And then there's like, a very intentional gradation towards emotion. Has to be quite a natural on ramp. You can't go, hey, what's going on? And why are you here? It's so therapistic.

Yeah.

I mean, why are you here? I go, hey, man, what's going on?

Like, why are you here?

You know, it's light, jovial, it's curious. It's fine, you know, and then if you do it, like a crazy change partway through, and it's like, like, exactly. You can't go from curiosity to, like, that to that, like, really concerned tone. You kind of have to throw skeptical in the middle to go from curious to skeptical to concerned. Hey, man, what's going on?

Oh, really?

Okay, well, help me understand. How has that been going for.

Right.

See how it's curious, skeptical, concerned. It's kind of gradated. But you have to know how to use your voice.

Right? Yeah. All right, thanks. Thanks, Matt. Sweet.

All right, let's go. Who's got next? Michael.

Hey, man, what's up? Yeah, I just had two quick questions for you. So I'm an SDR, and I do, like, B2B.

You have a great voice. What was that? You have a great voice.

Thank you, man.

I. I appreciate that. No one's ever told me that.

No homo.

All right.

It's okay. Big dick energy.

I love it.

If I was though, I'd be the gayest dude you ever met. I swear to God.

Right? Yeah, I love it. Cool, man.

Well, yeah, so just two quick questions. So I, like, I'm an scr, so obviously I'm cold calling a lot of people. Directors, CEOs, CIOs. And I know you had just said, like, when you're talking, you're kind of having, like, a jovial voice. Like, do you think I should start off my calls, like, more confident or, like, more jovial? Or how would you recommend.

Well, let me hear it, because I don't. I want to make sure we're. We're defining things the same way.

Wait, I'm sorry. You cut out.

What'd you say? Sorry. I would like to hear your versions of each, because I want to make sure that we're. We're working off the same glossary. Yeah, for sure. Like, so, okay, like, Nick, if you can be the. The guy. We don't need to say much, but just like, hello, Jimmy. Nick Briscoe. And then if you can give me, like, your. Your stock standard, that opener. So, like, that'll be good.

Okay. All right. Hello? Hey, Nick.

Yes, that's me.

Hey, Nick.

Yeah, it's actually. It's just Mike over here at a Service Express. How you doing, man?

I'm good, man. How are you?

Oh, man. Just getting through the day. I'm ready for Friday.

You know what I'm saying?

I hear you.

Yeah, I mean, that's what I mean.

I hate that last line.

Okay.

That makes me want to stab you.

I had a feeling you were gonna say that, but I was like, I'm gonna throw it out here anyways.

Yeah, definitely. That's what you do. I don't have the last line. I think you want to make sure when you're cold calling people, you. You are respect People's time. Jimmy, not that you're disrespecting, but I'm just saying that. Yeah, I don't mind the tonality. I think it's good. Show me what you're thinking when you do. The more the other version.

I guess, like, sometimes I'll. And I don't know how you feel about this, but sometimes I'll start the call kind of like confused or skeptical like.

Hey, Matt.

Yeah, it's. It's actually. It's just a mic Poops over here at Service Express. I was wondering if you could possibly help me out for a moment.

Which one works better?

I mean, I guess it just depends on the type of prospect I feel like sometimes I can come across.

But you don't. You don't get to play that game because that's true. You're calling them. So, like, it depends on the prospect. You don't know who you're calling. You know, what you need to do is have one way of doing it. Do that really consistently track the data. What is my pickup to conversation over 30, 60, 90 seconds.

Right, right.

And then from there, try it a different way and see if that increases.

Okay, Right.

And then, like, just look for the delta, you know, because, like, I think both were pretty good. I think you're sort of overdoing both a tiny bit. If I had to, yeah, I would say just, like, maybe tone it down 10, and you'll be like, hey, Nick.

Yes.

Yeah, hey, Nick, it's just Matt here from xyz. Looks like you were. You know what I mean? So just really nice and quick. Hey, it looks like you were. You know, so you can do the same thing so that you can cut the words down a little bit, lower it down. But I think overall it was pretty good. But the most important thing is track those stats. Pick up to, like, conversation over 30, 60, 90. And then you want to track, like, your offer and your offer to accept, you know, because, like, if, like, your opener is probably the number one thing you should nail. Absolutely.

Right. Yeah.

Because a lot of people don't hang.

Up on me, and I could. I usually have long conversations where I.

Can get in the.

Like just by being curious.

That's great. I feel like the curiosity, like, the curiosity is way easier to pull off the confused one. Like, it can work really well, but it's very difficult, you know, just, like, it's demanding.

Right.

So.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, Matty Logan.

Yeah, so based on the last call, I took away one of the things you shared on, like, kind of having sidebar conversations with different players. And that worked very well. I actually called just to set up a WhatsApp group chat with the guy and ended up at a price objection handling. Right after your price handling, price objection thing last week.

That's perfect timing.

So thank you for that. But you know, we. We've drawn up the proposal website, something to have a BSL now some B2B. So this was a kind of like a limiting belief from the owners of the company, which we are changing. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on VSLs and use of VSLs in B2B. B2 Enterprise from a services side. Not quite like a, like a SaaS. Like, you know, you get to run through some software, like features and stuff.

Use of VSLs.

How like, like, you know, on your homepage. It's like why we started Dialer. I was like kind of maybe adopt that. Like why we started this firm, I suppose.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Listen.

Okay, so it's a. It's a difficult one to answer. However, I would say so, like, for me at the moment, I mean, I just talk about me. I'm having all of my funnels redone at the moment for. Because we don't really have any funnels. We have any advertising.

Right. For Dialer.

It's all like kind of coming. We have a website people coming through there, but we are having a funnel created in our website being redone and then that will have a, like kind of a hero video like vsl, which is designed to address the core problems of the demographic. So like, I took all of the sales calls that we've done and then put them through an AI and then said like, what are the key sort of problems? And then from there just surveyed clients and said like, what are the key features that you find most valuable? And then we sort of created the copy and everything off that, you know, I mean, and I think that they're a very good way to give someone a nice short, sharp snippet of like what it is you do. A VSL is a video sales letter. So again, the implementation of it depends on where it's being deployed.

Right.

So if it's on an, if it's on a land. If it's on a, like a website, it's like less of a VSL and more of like a info kind of hero video.

Right.

But essentially it's a video that has a dedicated purpose.

Right.

So if you're using them in, in Martin, like, and like paid advertising, for example, like, you'd want to do it a little bit differently because top of funnel, when you're getting cold traffic into something, you might have to establish more, right? Like there's five, you guys know the five levels of marketing, like old school term. So you got unaware, problem aware, okay, solution aware, brand aware and product aware. That's, that's how it rolls, right? So someone needs to obviously be product aware before they can buy something. So they go unaware, like oh, I'm diddly bopping around. They see an ad that says like, did you know that you could make a billion dollars a day selling CMOs?

Right?

And they're like, I didn't know that. And now they know that they have a problem which is like, I don't make enough money right now there's a solution. So like they've been to come aware, oh, I don't make enough money there you can go, it's fine. So they're like, oh, now I'm aware that I don't make enough money. Then from there it's like now I'm solution where there is a CMOS product that I can sell right down to the local market and I can make a billion dollars a day. And then there's now there's this particular like MLM and then there's this particular product, product line. This is exactly how I do it. So they go through that whole journey, right? So what you need to have a look and like where they are in that journey is like what things you're going to talk about, if that makes sense. And so you deploy it differently.

Yeah, it does. And so that was one of the things I had in mind as well is like for those marketing awareness stages, we want to start up obviously like some YouTube content to hopefully be supplemental because it's all cold at roost typically. And so you know, to a degree we were a very regulated market so.

We have to be careful with how.

Much we share on the back end to be able to like walk through in depth on like solution aware and.

Kind of that's, that's, that's not what that is. Solution is that there is a solution to the problem. It doesn't have to be an in depth examination of how that's done. It's just like, oh no, like this thing does this, this thing fixes this and gets to this outcome. That's what solution is. Then there's features and benefits which is a little bit different and then there's back end how it does things. There's just different ways to do it. With vsl, you want to have multiple edits. You want to have the ability. There's a couple of things that you want to have no matter where it is. One is that you want to have the ability to have multiple edits to make it longer and shorter. You want to have the ability to track the watch time. That's an important one because like if you have a 20 minute video and people are watching five of it, just edit it down to be seven minutes.

Yeah, and that's actually one thing I know on yours you have it on YouTube obviously because you have other content that supports around dialer and so you know it's relative. So from our side I was going to just embed it with Wistia for now. But then the YouTube content side, you know, creating like a marketing engine from scratch. No previous, you know, personal brand or previous like YouTube aware like presence, building out that content from scratch. I was curious like what you. If you have any thoughts on that or what your perspective is on building, you know, YouTube content surrounding the offer. That's just complimentary videos and whatnot.

Like so mine is hosted on YouTube because YouTube does free retargeting.

Right?

So the moment you watch a YouTube video, you're going to get fed more of my YouTube videos which means like it immediately creates a like an authority web which makes show retired like that.

Right.

That's why I have that done that way. And also you can get average watch times and stuff like that on YouTube. So like it gives you all the. That you would need, you know.

I mean.

Okay, but in saying that if you don't have a like they're the risk of it is that like you have to have ads disabled but they still might be served ads.

Right?

So like that's the shitty part of it. But for me it.

The.

The juice is worth the squeeze. So for you I would definitely host something like Wistia. Then from there I think everyone should do content. I think that it's just a fucking fantastic idea. I don't think it has to be big, but it can definitely be a good thing. And it's like creating a personal brand is like. It's a war of attrition. The reason why I'm like, I mean some people are fucking unpalatable to. To watch. I totally get that. But that's like not the norm. Yeah, I mean and most of your content is going to suck balls anyway for the first year or two. But like everyone's does like go and watch Mr. Beast first videos. They were trash, right? Go watch my first videos. They were garbage. Right, Michael, that was a very unnecessary tilt of the head.

Right.

You're like, yes, I've watched them. They are trash. Better than yours.

Right, Right.

So, but it's a war of attrition. So like most people just don't keep doing it because they're expecting some sort of instantaneous ROI from it and there is none. You're just going to sink time, effort and energy into it and probably some money and get absolutely no outcome from it for years. And then you will. And it's the people who keep going. Like, I launched a retrition. So like most people just don't keep doing it because they're expecting some sort of instantaneous ROI from it. And there is none. You're just going to sink time, effort and energy into it and probably some money and get absolutely no outcome from it for years. And then you will. And it's the people who keep going. Like I launched a YouTube membership. It makes me $80,000 a month and it takes me three hours a week.

Yeah. Right.

No funnel, no sales guys, no nothing. And it's not particularly easy to buy.

Right, right.

So like, you know, and so like, but that's a, that's a long term play. And I was like, oh, fuck it, I'll give it a try. And all of a sudden it's got 500 people in it.

Yeah.

I mean, and so like that means that I can do just dialer and be happy as and just do these codes, which I enjoy anyway. But I think like from a content strategy, if you wouldn't like me to tell you about content strategy. So the first thing is you have to figure out what you're good at and only talk about those things.

Right.

The second thing is you have to ignore norms. So you have to ignore what other people are doing that looks like it's cool and just kind of do the thing that you enjoy. Because if you don't enjoy it and you're not, you don't like talking about it, it's going to be get real old real quick. Then from there you have a look at other people that are in the space and you have a look at what they're doing. That works in terms of like, not like, you know, just in terms of like what resonates with their audience because it's a similar audience to you. And then you can take ideas and you can formulate them into your own. But if there's an outlier video that has like say 17,000 views and every other one in the last month, has got 2,000 views, then like that's probably a good idea. You know what I mean? So you take that idea and you mold it, right? And that's kind of how you can get a lot of ideas. And then you might have your, you have your own ideas as well and you do it that way. And then what you do is you sit there and you, and you post content and you track the results from it and you like, the more seriously you take it, the better it will be. And then from there, like the structure of the video makes a difference. If you watch most of my videos, they go, in this video, I will teach you this, right? Then I lay out the value proposition of the video and then I go into the content straight away. There are other ways to do that. Some of the good ways are, you know, I was doing this one stupid mistake, you know what I mean? That when I learned how to fix it, yada yada yada, there's those good ones. But generally speaking, it's some sort of value proposition for either FOMO or Jomo.

Yeah.

I mean, and then like from there you kind of move it forward. Most videos want to be over 10 minutes long because that allows YouTube to get the mid roll into it. And then you just do it for a long time. Generally speaking, twice a week long form and one short per day is a very good one on YouTub. YouTube is very difficult to grow. Very difficult. I've been doing it for five years. I have 15,000 subs now. I get a lot of views comparatively. I get about 200,000 views a month, which is a lot more than most. Fifteen thousands. It's about the equivalent, about a hundred thousand subscriber channel. But it's very cultivated, you know, I mean so they're quite a loyal.

Yeah.

So with that I, I've realized, and this is my last thing I don't want to hog all the time, but you know, the, the company hasn't directly said it, but I, I want to own the videos, have the videos on my own page rather than have like the company page. Then if I ever, if I ever do something differently and go a separate way, you know, I'd like to be able to have that asset. You know, it seems like it. Obviously then it. That's the asset that you own.

Well, I mean no one's gonna be. Building a branded page on YouTube is very, very difficult.

Like.

Yeah, you take difficulty of building a personal brand and Multiple buy by 100 and that's building a brand page. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Or like, it's because people resonate with people, you know, I mean, so, yeah, I think that. Listen, I think building a personal brand, like Jay can talk about, it's where he does people for a living, right? But building a personal brand is like, it's an incredible thing to do, even if. Because you don't even need to be big, you know what I mean? And depending on what you sell, like my stuff, I use big words. My stuff is niche as.

Right.

I'm like the sales coach that coaches your sales coach, you know, I mean, and. And so it's like. And I. I really don't even do that much of it. I just, I mainly do my dialer. But this is like a funsy.

Yeah.

I mean, but like, it's very nuanced, which means, like, I only have Canada, US, UK, Australia, and it's all men between the ages of 25 and 50. Like, you look at the Democrats, it's not an Indian or a Turkish man amongst them.

Right.

Which is odd for social media. So, you know, I would highly recommend that you do it even if. Because like, the, the payoff if you do it consistently is so awesome, you know, and it's like, it will give you opportunity that you didn't know. Because if someone, like when you're in like a more heavy market, like I am like a more B2B ish market market, like, I just need the one guy to watch the content and that guy will pay me 100 grand a month. You know, I mean, like to, to fix stuff or consult stuff. And so, like, it's just. That guy just needs to see it. And if you're talking about the problems that solves that for your clients, then like, if, like even a tiny, tiny Instagram YouTube podcast, if it's part of your funnel and they watch a podcast and they come onto a sales call and go, oh, I just watched the first a few podcasts made.

They've bought.

They're buying every time. That is absolute lay down city.

Right?

Because they listen to six, seven hours of your content of you just. And like they are on the call, which means they don't think you're stupid.

Right.

You know, so that's. It's a big one.

All right.

Nick?

Yeah.

Could we play out the passion thing? I was asking you about the other. So when I. I'm in discovery, I'm asking them why they want to start this new coaching business or consulting business, and they tell me passion. And we played it out a little.

Bit, but could we do it again for sure.

Why do you want to start your coaching business, Nick?

Well, yeah, you know, I. I've. I. I teach yoga on the side, and that makes me money. And I have. I want to do this now because. Yes, I'm passionate about it.

Okay. What does that mean?

It means I've really wanted to do it for a long time.

So what happened?

I was focused on, you know, I was focused on my yoga teaching.

Okay.

What shifted recently to where you kind of want to take this more seriously?

Yeah, my. My husband has been. That's what I got today. My husband has been taking care of.

Okay.

Okay.

It's a theme.

Okay. This is a joke.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Well, yeah, but what shifted recently where you actually want to start doing this thing? Do you want me to play it for you?

Like it literally just happened today?

Did you ask that question?

No.

What's the point of playing it?

All right. Okay. Right.

So there has to be a catalyst, right?

Why?

Yeah, just. I'm just really passionate about it.

But you've been passionate about it for years. What's changed recently to where you're actually going to start doing something about that and actually putting that passion into practice?

Okay, I'm not asking.

Okay.

What shifted recently to where you kind of want to take this more seriously? Yeah.

My, my.

Well, there has to be. I mean, that might be the whole thing, but you do have to find that out because, like, oh, my husband.

Husband has been. That's what I got today. My husband has. Has been taking care of me.

Okay.

It's a female.

Okay.

Okay.

So what's changed recently, which is like, either he's not taking care of you now. Oh, okay. There's a bit of urgency there.

Right?

You know, I mean, so now you're divorced, so now you have to figure this shit out. So it's really not passionate about money, isn't it?

Well, I got every. I got her to say, you know, everybody likes money. I definitely. I'm not saying I don't need money.

Okay.

But if we had to quantify what success looks like, Right. How many. You're passionate. So the point is to what, to help people?

Yes. Okay.

How many people do you want to help?

10Amonth.

10Amonth.

Okay. For free?

No, I was doing it for free.

Okay.

Why aren't you doing it for free?

I figured I should charge money for it now.

Why is that?

Because people tell me I'm. I'm. I'm good at it.

Okay, but if you're. If you're doing it just for the passion, then Just be good at it for 10 people.

Right? For free? Yeah. You're saying this is a joke? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, well, yeah, but what shifted recently where you actually want to start doing this thing? Do you want me to play it for you?

Like, it literally just happened today?

Did you ask that question?

No.

So I guess what's the point of playing?

All right. Okay. Right.

So there has to be a catalyst, right?

Why?

Yeah, just. I'm just really passionate about it.

But you've been passionate about it for years. What's changed recently to where you're actually going to start doing something about that and actually putting that passion into practice?

Okay, yeah. I'm not asking why start.

What's changed? Where you want to start charging, like, you've been good at it for a long time. You're passionate for a long time. Like, what's the. What's the rationale behind now trying to make this into a business?

Yeah, I'm just not going deep enough. That's really what it is.

You just have to, like, you're getting non answers and you're accepting them as answers.

Yeah, yeah.

They're not an answer. It's. You have to answer the question. If I say, what's two plus two? And you say more than three? It's like, well, I mean, sort of.

Yeah.

Like, it's just.

That's why I'm struggling to give you an answer.

Like.

Yeah, yeah, because, like, it's like, you have to answer the question. And then there's like, well, no, I don't want to do it for free.

Why not? You love it.

Compassionate about it. Well, no, because, like, you know, now that me and my husband are divorced.

Oh, okay.

Well, there has to be. I mean, that might be the whole thing, but you do have to find that out because, like. Oh, my husband.

Right, Right. Thought so. Right. Yeah.

So now we need money. All right, how much money do we need? Okay, so then. And then you just go like, okay, so 10 people per month.

All right.

And how much you want to charge these people? I want to charge them a thousand. Let's say, whatever.

3,600.

3,600. Oh, spicy. All right, so what's that, like $36,000 a month?

Well, 10 people.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay, cool.

And where are you at now? Okay, so what's changed recently, which is like, either he's not taking care of you now. Ah, okay. There's a bit of urgency there.

Right.

You know, I mean, so now you're divorced, so now you have to figure this shit out. So it's really not passions about money, isn't it?

Well, I got every, I got her to say, you know, zero.

Okay. All right. Okay.

That's a big barrier, right? You know, I mean, for a lot of people. Why, why, why that much? Why not like a hundred bucks?

Because I, I, that's what I need to support, to support me.

Okay. All right.

So like it's, we're, everybody likes money.

I definitely, I'm not saying I don't need money.

Okay.

But if we had to quantify what. Passionate about doing it. But like we need to make this into a business and we need to, you know, get to that $36,000 month mark so that you can continue to do your passion. Because without that you can't actually help anybody, can you? Success looks like.

Right.

How many you're passionate. So the point is to what? To help people.

Yeah.

Okay, so what's your goal over the year? Like how many people over the next 12 months do you want to help?

Yeah.

120.

Okay.

And do you feel like you're good at what you do?

Very good.

Do you feel like you have an obligation to help people?

Yes. Okay.

How many people do you want to help?

10Amonth.

10Amonth.

Okay. For free?

No, I was doing it for free.

And give them the service that they need from you?

Yes.

Okay, so would you bring that up at the end in Objection. Handling. If, if you, if that's where the conversation is.

Yeah. I always like to.

Okay.

Why aren't you doing it for free?

I figured I should charge money for it.

Now why is that?

People who say passion. Yeah, I call in my head.

Right, Me too.

If you're really passionate, you do it for free.

Right.

I'm passionate about people in sales. Not passionate enough to do it for free. I'll tell you right now.

Because people tell me I'm, I'm, I'm good at it.

Right.

So yeah, like, but you have to.

Okay.

But if you're, if you're doing it just for the passion, then just be good at it for 10 people.

Right. For free. Yeah. You're saying why start.

What's changed? Where you want to start charging? Like you've been good at it for a long time. You're passionate for a long time. Like, what's the, what's the rationale behind now trying to make this into a business? Let them, you, they, they have created an identity for themselves where they feel like they are better than us.

Right.

And they are, they're the people who don't watch TV. But they watch a lot of YouTube on their computer. I don't watch TV.

Really?

Computer? Yeah. You watch YouTube? Yeah, I watch Netflix. Oh, you idiot. You meet those people Netflix. So you do the same thing just on a different device.

Fair enough.

So you're just getting to say, well, how many people? And then you quantify that and go, okay, like. But, like, how do we know it?

Yeah, I'm just not going deep enough. That's really what it is.

You just have to, like, you're getting non answers and you're accepting them as answers.

Yeah, yeah.

They're not an answer. You have to answer the question. Helped. Do you have an obligation to help these people? Yes, I do.

Okay, perfect.

So now they have an obligation to do it. They haven't been doing it. So they have to figure out a way and like. But they have to break it down into a tangible. And so it's like, okay, we need to figure out a way to help this many people and make this much money. What is your budget to do, though? If I say, what's two plus two and you say more than three, it's like, well, I mean, sort of because I'm passionate about helping people hit their goals, but I don't do it for free either. Yeah, like, it's just.

That's why I'm struggling to give you an answer. Like, yeah, yeah, because you asked them their budget in, like, in discovery.

I have. I would recommend it for most. It's a pretty move, right? You know? Yeah, I've done it. I've done it many times. Like, it's.

It's.

It works. It's fine. Depends on the conversation.

Right.

But in B2B, I ask it every time.

Right.

Okay, so what's your budget to do that? I go, you know, so it's like, it's like you have to answer the question. And then there's like, well, no, I don't want to do it for free.

Why not? You love it.

But then you can ask that question. If they're giving you a money objection, like, that is a way to handle it. So, like, all right, well, what's your bunch compassionate about it? Well, no, because, like, you know, now that me and my husband are divorced.

Oh, okay.

To do that, then we want to do all these things. Like, if they're not giving you clear answers, you want to do this, this, this, this, and this. You need our help. You're here. You want to get to here help this many people because of your obligation, because you're so good at what you do? What's your budget?

Right.

Thought so.

Right. Yeah.

So. And if they go like, oh, it's a hundred dollars a month, you go, do you feel like that's reasonable? You charge 3, 600.

Yeah. Right.

You know, so it's like. Yeah, makes sense. You just gotta ask more questions.

Yeah. Okay. Okie dokie. All right.

It's Michael.

Yeah, I just have one more question. So I was curious, I was looking through your membership and some of the downloadables. I know there's the book of reframes, and I was just curious in terms of, like, identity frames and framing. Like, I guess I'm struggling understanding that concept.

Like, could you explain it a little.

Bit more obviously if you could.

If not, no worries.

Well, yeah, I guess I'm just trying to understand, like, what's the intent? What's, like, the purpose of using framing especially?

Are you now, we need money. All right, how much money do we need? Okay, so then, and then you just go like, okay, so 10 people per month.

All right.

And how much you want to charge these people? I want to charge them a thousand. Let's say whatever.

3,600.

3,600. Oh, spicy. All right, so what's that, like $36,000 a month?

Using that only at the end of the call, like when you're overcoming an objection or using in discovery as well.

Okay, well.

Oh, 10 people.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay, cool.

And where are you at now?

Zero.

Okay. All right. Okay.

That's a big barrier, right? You know what I mean? For a lot of.

People.

Why, why, why that much? Why not, like a hundred bucks?

Because I, I, that's what I need to support.

Okay.

All right. So, like, it's, we're passionate about doing it, but, like, we need to make this into a business, and we need to, you know, get to that $36,000 month mark so that you can continue to do your passion. Because without that, you can't actually help anybody, can you?

Yeah, you're right.

So what's your goal over the year? Like, how many people over the next 12 months you want to help?

Yeah.

120.

Okay.

And do you feel like you're.

Good.

At what you do?

Very good.

Do you feel like you have an obligation to help people and give them the service that they need from you?

Yes. Okay, so would you bring that up at the end?

Yeah. Okay. Objection.

Handling. If, if you, if that's where the conversation is.

Yeah, I always like to. Okay, perfect, man.

I appreciate that.

Thank you. Yeah.

I just had one last question just.

Before we hop off.

I mean, one of the last questions on my script, when I said I was like, why not do this like, a week from now or, like a month from now or tomorrow? Right?

And people who say passion. Yeah, I call in my head, right, Me too. If you're really passionate, you do it for free, right? I'm passionate about helping people in sales. Not passionate enough to do it for free. I'll tell you right now.

Right?

So, yeah, like. But you have to let them.

You. They.

They have created an identity for themselves where they feel like they.

Sometimes I get, like, the answers. Like, okay, I'm not in a rush to make any decisions right now. Like, this can wait for a week. Or we'll go, like, multiple options with, like, other companies over the week anyway. So, I mean, would you. Would you attempt to, like, reframe their perspective right there and, like, move towards the pitch? Or do you think that would be too risky? Or, like, would you. Not even.

They are better than us.

Right?

And they are. They're the people who don't watch TV, but they watch a lot of YouTube on their computer. I don't watch TV.

Really?

You have a computer?

Yeah.

You watch YouTube? Yeah, I watch Netflix. Oh, you.

Idiot.

You mean those people? I want Netflix. So you do the same thing, just on a different device.

Fair enough.

So you just get them to say, well, how many people? And then you quantify that and go, okay, like. But, like, how do we know we helped. Do you have an obligation to help these people? Yes, I do.

Okay, perfect.

So now they have an obligation to do it. They haven't been doing it. So they have to figure out a way. And like. But they have to break it down into a tangible. And so it's like, okay, we need to figure out a way to help this many people and make this much money. What is your budget to do, though? Because I'm passionate about helping people hit their goals, but I don't do it for free either.

Yeah.

You asked them their budget in, like, in Discovery.

I have. I wouldn't recommend it for most. It's a pretty move, right? You know? Yeah, I've done it. I've done it many times. Like, it's.

It's.

It works. It's fine. Depends on the conversation.

Right.

But in B2B, I ask it every time.

Right.

Okay, so what's your budget to do that? I go, you know, so. But then you can ask that question if they're giving you a money objection. Like, that is a way to handle. It's like, all Right. Well, what's your budget to do that then? You want to do all these things. Like, if they're not giving you clear answers, you want to do this, this, this, this, and this. You need our help. You're here. You want to get to here, help this many people because of your obligation, because you're so good at what you do. What's your budget? And if they go like, oh, it's a hundred dollars a month, you go, do you feel like that's reasonable? You charge 3, 600.

Yeah. Right.

You know, so it's like. Yeah, makes sense. You just gotta ask more questions.

Yeah, okay. Okey dokey. All right.

It's Michael.

Yeah, I just have one more question. So I was curious. I was looking through your membership and some of the downloadables. I know there's the book of reframes, and I was just curious in terms of, like, identity frames and framing. Like, I guess I'm struggling understanding that concept.

Like, could you explain it a little.

Bit more obviously if you could?

If not, no worries.

Well, yeah, I guess I'm just trying to understand, like, what's the intent? What's like, the purpose of using framing? Especially, are you using that only at the end of the call, like when you're overcoming an objection or using in.

And discovery as well.

Okay.