Meet The Man Who Mastered Fitness Sales | Interview with Diarmuid #Ep 174

Alrighty, man, nice to meet you.

Yeah, nice to meet you here.

Alrighty. All right guys, welcome to Coffees for Closers. We're here today chatting to. How do you say your name?

German. The, the spelling makes it a lot more complicated than it is two syllables. German.

So. Okay. Jared.

Yeah.

Like with a G?

Like with a J.

Kind of like with a J. Well that makes total sense as to why there's a D at the beginning. Right.

The Irish language. I know, I'll tell you.

Yeah, exactly, man. All right, so yeah, run me through what are you doing these days? What are you up to with yourself?

Yeah. So I guess at the moment fitness sales, mentorship, pretty much just coaching fitness salespeople. Originally thought my audience was going to be fitness professionals. It's not at all. They have no interest in learning sales it sounds like. So it's pretty much just fitness sales people.

Okay.

And then yeah, obviously coming on board with committed as well and getting involved with some teams on top of that. So.

Okay. All right. And we'll get into that.

So I pretty much have only done fitness sales. I've like been on and off with a few other offers but I made the decision kind of like halfway through that I was just going to stick it out. Most people leave fitness, they see it as a bit of a stepping stone. They move on to something else. Yeah, I just decided I'm going to stay because nobody stays.

Yeah.

And if I stay and I pretty much just become the main person in this little niche. Yeah, that's been my goal and it's been working so far.

Okay.

It's all early days.

All right. So, so I guess like, you know, what is it that got into fitness sales in the first place?

So originally, so before getting into the sales I was working as a professional strength conditioning coach.

Okay.

In particularly for rugby. Then Covid happened, started an online business, realized that 17 year old rugby players don't have money so I need to switch it up. Went after middle aged women.

Okay.

I was pretty successful. Then realized I hate the fulfillment, I hate having a fitness business but I really like sales.

Yeah.

And then ultimately from there was hired by are by my business mentor who I believe you were coaching as well previously. Andrew Poulton, ap.

Oh yeah, ap. He's a fitness sales. Yeah, connoisseur man. He's a sandwich.

He is. Yeah. So that was my first initial like proper sales training for them and then from there have gone on to manage teams, have gone on to self fitness in multiple different offers. It's just been kind of A progression towards the bits that I enjoyed the most, which ultimately now is the, the coaching side is the bit that I really love.

Okay, that makes sense. And I suppose, like, you know, I guess, like what's the sort of, what's your take on fitness is like, why do people, why do people leave it?

Because it's hard and because they think that they could make more money elsewhere, which they brought. Like in some cases you definitely can. But you can also make really good money in fitness if you're good. You know, it's a different style though. You got to be very efficient. You got to really reduce. Like a big thing that I teach is reducing your call time down to 30 minutes. Yeah, it's kind of being very efficient, high volume, just crushing it. But if you get very, very good at it, like you can still make a lot of money. I don't think when I've worked in sales, I don't think I've ever made less than 10k USD working like 20 hours a week. Which you're not going to find that in other niches, but I think, well, you will, but like it's not super.

Well, I think the thing about, you know, fitness is it is the largest tam by a country mile. Right. So like the total accessible market on fitness is way higher than any other offer because it's one of the only things that you can keep reselling to. So you know, when someone gets the result, like, you know, with a lot of things, let's say sales training, for example, like once you train a lot of people, like there's only so much sales training you can sell, sell, do you know what I mean? And so like once you taught them once, you're not going to resell them again. It's very unlikely. And so like you sort of like every person you get. Yes. There are new people becoming sales people or fitness sales people. And it's a very large amount of people that. Don't get me wrong. But with fitness you can sell them 10 times in their life, 50 times in their life. Like you can kind of keep doing it. And so like it's, it's, it's, it's the, it is the niche that will never stop. And you, and you can't outgrow it. It's impossible. That's why some of the biggest businesses in the world are all health and fitness business. Like it's a monster of an industry. Like if you got V shred, I mean, V shred's enormous, right? You know, and so, you know, I think that's and also, you know, generally speaking, in my opinion, like the reason why it's good, and I like to get your take on this too, but the reason why it's a good place to start or even a good place just to be is because it makes you quite good. Because one, you get lots of volume usually because there's no lack of people who are trying to lose weight, get fit, whatever it may be. And so there's usually an ability to get leads. Second thing is like you can still have pretty decent ticket size. Like, I mean I was coaching a team recently that had a thirty thousand dollar fitness program, you know, and they sold the crap out of it, you know, so like they did very, very well. They had like 5, 15 and 30 and they barely ever sold the 5. Like barely ever is mainly the 15s. And then every now and then a 30 as well. But they probably sold more of the 30s than the way they did the fives. But it's just like, you know, you can get leads and you can usually get volume and then from there, you know, you're selling something that doesn't have an roi. And so I think that like people who only sell ROI based things, like that's what they lean on, you know, which then makes it really hard because like if someone's like, well, how do I know it's going to work? You know, that's a more difficult one for them to overcome because like they're, they're not used to all the different intricacies like that can happen, you know. And so I think like, you know, most of the best sales people that I know, they come from a fitness background, you know, not all, but most, like a lot of them had to grind it out because, you know, you can, you can do the grind, you can talk to an enormous amount of people, you can get tons and tons of reps and you can learn how to sell something that has a very emotional sale attached to it. And so like your ability to kind of read people and your ability to handle objections is I think usually second to none. If you've done lots of fitness sales.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So how long have you been doing fitness sales?

Including my own business, it's been probably about four years of just only selling fitness and like to touch on the volume side of things, like a big day in fitness, if you're doing 30 minutes is 16 calls, 20 calls if you're really grinding it out, which is like that's some people's weak, you know, so it's like the Volume at the start, I think that that was, that played a massive role in my like progression was the fact in that first year I probably had like a thousand, two thousand goals, so.

Oh yeah, easy man. Yes, easy. I think over my sort of fitness career, I think I worked out that I made 10,000 sales in fitness because I did full time selling and fitness for Mad Eric. I did it full time for like eight years.

Yeah.

You know, and it's just, it became automatic. I mean I was, you know, 15 minute calls was pretty much the standard which you can do in fitness. Like you don't need a ton of time and you can sell a 2,000, 3,000, $4,000 product. If you sort of know what you're doing, you can navigate that very, very quickly because like, you know the triggers and you know how to get them and then it's sort of like, you know, get what you need, get to the pitch then. Objection. Handle the sort of. It's sort of because you're going to get objections. It's very rare that you get like an objection sale for fitness because you're probably going to get a partner if it's a woman especially. So you have to kind of set that up and you know, they're going to have to ask permission to sort of spend the money or whatever. That's generally speaking what happens. Even if it's not the case, then they'll use it, you know, and then it's one of the only things where you have not only a fear of failure but also a fear of success. And so yeah, you know, because some people are like, well, what if I lose the weight and still I'm unhappy, it's like, oh, that's a, it's fair enough. It's a real problem. Right. So I think in terms of your, like, your methodology, like run us through, like what are your key points to having like a successful fitness sale?

Yeah, I think one thing that I do differently than a lot of people that I hear teaching sales is, is that I always go for the past when I'm selling fitness. So instead of talking about what they're currently doing, I always start with what have you tried previously to fix this? Like have you followed any formal blah, blah, blah. Because what I'm really looking for is one, I want to disqualify everything they've done before. Like I want them to disqualify everything they're done before. But what I'm really looking for is patterns. Because if you can find patterns of outcome, like, oh, I always lose 20 pounds and then I always fall off the wagon. And if that's happened 1, 2, 3, 4 times, you know that if you can get them to understand that problem and you can show them that there is a solution, obviously distance yourself from the sale at first. Just get them to identify, oh, this is a problem and this why it's a problem, then you can start to identify fear of failure. You can start to pre handle fear of failure. And also when you do solve that problem later on in your pitch, it's like an aha moment. Like the solution or the problem that they just realized they have now there's a solution that they didn't know existed. And it's like value goes up, fear, failure goes down. So one thing I feel that I teach that I'm very, very, very good at is pre handling of fear. Like I very, very rarely get any sort of fear based objections whatsoever because I identify where the fear is early on.

Okay.

And I go after it and then generally challenge them. It usually ends up in a. It's normal to feel like that. But at some point if you want to make a change, you're going to have to be brave. Because bravery is a choice. Fear isn't.

Okay.

And once you get buy in on that, you challenge them, you push them back. Why now? Why not just keep pushing us down the road? You just keep chipping away at it and bigging them up. Because a lot of these people, their self esteem so low, they just need someone to show them an alternative path and then to believe in them. And that's really kind of what it's based on. That's probably the main thing I do differently than see in other places. And then it's a lot of epq, a lot of. Because obviously I've done the inner circle that's been a big kind of proponent something and then AP obviously had like similar style. That's where I got that from. So yeah, just kind of adapting it and making my own over just thousands.

Of reps. Yeah, I mean that's the way like there is no such thing as like original sales training jamming. This there isn't really like it's all just an amalgamation of communication tactics that have been done over like a long period of time. You know what I mean? Which is, which is fair. I think the people who package it well are probably the people who do the best out of it. Right. But I mean like you know, you can't say, you can't say things that haven't been said before. You can't sort of inflect in ways that haven't been affected before. So anything that you're doing is sort of, you know, borrowing from somewhere, but there's nothing wrong with that, you know what I mean? Like, I see people teach my shit all the time, stuff that I actually made up, but I'm sure, like, I, I heard some sort of thing somewhere. Things seep into your subconscious, gentlemen. And then, you know, from there you sort of like, you put things together and you sort of come up with a semi original thought, you know, and that's kind of how it works, right? And then from there people take that and they take what you've done, they copy it, but then they also like, kind of make it better or they change it over the years. And you know, I see people doing that kind of time, but that's just kind of doesn't mean anyone's doing anything bad. Just kind of like the way that it is. So, okay, so with your, with your, with your training, so are you like, like, like, like, how are you operating? You're doing like, what do you think? I guess the best way for someone to come in, get training, and actually go from like, you know, terrible to not terrible. And then how would they get from like, you know, not terrible to pretty good?

The very, very first thing I see is that they need to stop making mistakes. I feel like more salespeople ruin sales calls than they realize. They, like, cause an absolute ton of resistance. They hear people challenging in this really confrontational way, and it's like glorified. And then they go in and they start trying to slap people around and people hate them. People come into my mentorship and they can't get through 10 minutes of a call. People keep hanging up on them and they're like, who's teaching this?

Crazy. Where are they? Where are they coming from?

Some pretty well known people. I'm not gonna go in there.

But I think, like, it's a funny one, right? Because I think, like, you can get away with like, I get away with saying some really rough to people, but it's just about how you do it, you know, it's. I think that that's like, that's the thing that people don't. It's very hard to teach, though. It's very hard to teach how to be like, super rough on people and not have it come off the wrong way. It's almost like, it's almost a personality thing. Like, I, like, I like, I. You have to come across as like, it's. The intent is not to make the sale or make them feel bad. The intent is just to like show them the mirror and ask the question. But it has to come from a genuine place, you know?

Yeah.

And then it, and then it comes on like how you were like, compare and contrast methods of, let's say like, objection handling. Where you're like, but you said this and you know, sort of like, it doesn't work. It just makes, it's really combative and you, you can, you can like logic trap people into doing stuff. It's not that difficult. I used to do it all the time. That was like basically how I sold. When I was doing full time fitness sales. I would literally, this is all I did the whole time. I would, I just became really good at objection handling. And so for me, because I never took any book calls, it was all just like lead lists. What I would do is I would pitch in the first five minutes and then just objection. That's it. Yeah, that was all I would do. Which made me really good at objection handling. Subsequently, after learning like better ways. And when I got on to like, because I sold on, I sold on AP's account, I broke his record, right? He might, he might, he's probably re. Established it since. But when he went on his honeymoon, he had like a six week honeymoon and they were like, we need someone to cover for him. And I was like, oh yeah, I'll do it. And you know, I did it right. So. But yeah, like that was fun. But you know, it's, it's just sort of like, you know, you can be really abrasive and you can say all these things, but like, it does cause refunds and it does cause like a bad taste in the mouth because again, it's not hard to bully people into doing stuff. But I think it's also not super productive because in the long term, you know, if you can get someone to convince themselves, I think that it works way better. And that's through asking like a real genuine question like, well, what happens if. And learning how to like phrase it in a way that's not like really like, like overtly direct, but it's like, it's direct enough to where you're, you're getting the person to think and become a little bit introspective as to like how they would, how they would do it. Right. I think if you're, I think if you're too direct, you end up like putting the person in a position to where like you're, you're potentially like you're gonna get the People who you'll, you're gonna get the people who are only like a couple of words away, but you'll never get the people who are like a couple of sentences away.

Yeah.

If that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah.

And that, that's definitely the biggest, like people come in and, or like a really common thing I see is they'll like, they have no empathy for the other person. Like, they have no understanding of what's happening in the other person's head.

Yeah.

And it's like you're challenging some like 50 year old woman who's failed 10 times on. Is she committed enough to turn up every day and do what needs to be done. And all that happens at the end is that woman's like, I need to go away and decide if I'm committed enough. Because you've scared the living shit out of her. You've called the objection. So it's like, yeah. The very first step for all these people that come in, most of them is just like, hey, let's just stop making all the mistakes. Because some of these people do want to buy. To have a 0% closing percentage, you're ruining calls.

Even to have a 10%, you're ruining calls.

Yeah. Some people are laid out.

If all you did was ask, hey man, do you want to do it? 5, 10% of people would say yes.

Yeah.

So the fact that they have zero.

Is like, you are ranking this.

Oh, yeah, you're doing something very, very poorly. Or you're just super weird, like on calls. Because people become different human beings on calls I see all the time. It's just like these weird amalgamations of words that people put together. It's just like, you know, oh, hey, like, you know, I'd love to lose a bit of weight. So what I'm hearing you say is that weight loss is what you're looking for. And you know, like, how much, how much weight? If I could, if I could ask, because I'm just curious, like, how much? It's like me, man. Just ask him. Oh, yeah, Cool. How much? Like a normal human. I just don't, I don't. I never understood that. I never understood like the, the odd wordplay that people put in. I don't know who's teaching it because I, like, I haven't heard people teach all that nonsense wordplay when you can just go, how much? Okay, what's that?

Yeah, but I think it's, I think it's. People hear snippets from the outside of sales trainings. Like, I remember hearing this sounds this embarrassing to think of. But, like, I remember hearing about needing to be detached from the sale, and I thought that that meant you have to be, like, a boring bastard, pretty much. Well, shake. Monotonous. Just like.

Or just like, not give a fuck. Just like.

Yeah, not give a fuck. And they could feel that. And my sales went down. And then I realized, no, no, no, being detached from the sale, you still have to be that caring expert. You still have to be someone that's connected and they can sense what's the best for them. It means that you're not needy and you want the best thing for them. Yeah. So that's. That's a mistake I made from hearing something from the outside. And I think it's just a combination of people hearing all these different, weird little things and trying to piece it together themselves, and they just end up a mess.

That could be trouble in terms of, like, if someone's coming in and doing some of those sort of poor things.

Right.

Like. And you want to stop having, like, make the mistakes, like, what would you say? You know, what was the sort of example I'm just trying to get, like, what's, like. What's, like, your first point of call to, like, you know, fixing something in somebody, you know? So, like, are you, like, what are you looking for when you're, like, problem solving?

So, yeah, my first thing is always. Well, one, I have a course that I make them all watch called how to Stop Sucking at Sales. It's pretty much just like a list of mistakes that I see people make and stop doing them.

Yeah.

But I try to give them a script that I know works like a base structure that removes any of the guessing for them. And I pretty much just tell them to understand everything that they're asking, why they're asking it, what information they're trying to get. And then it's pretty much just like, stop saying anything that isn't on that unless you know exactly why you said it. And we can get fancy from there, and we can start, like, going off in different directions and handling things, but the very first thing is you just need to have some consistency and control and stop triggering people. People will buy, and then we can start trying to get better. So it's usually just like, give them some structure, some scaffolding.

Yeah.

Stop doing all the weird. Just follow this.

Yeah, just give them a constant and then go, like, all right, guys, like, from there. I think a lot of people, they just try and do all this fancy when, like, it's just. It's just like, I mean, you don't, you don't need any of it if you're actually pretty good. Yeah, I probably blame myself for some of it. All these hooks and reframes and like, you don't need any of it unless you suck. And then case, like, it can help. Like, those things are designed to, like, make it easier if you're terrible, but, like, they're arrows in the quiver. Like, they're not supposed to be said every time. Whereas, like, some of these people are out there, like, saying the most ridiculous on every single call and saying everything that I ever put on YouTube. It's like, why, why are you doing this? Like, this is like, these are all, like, instances, you know, And I think, like, you know, like, I think word economy is very underrated. Like, every single. Unless you're really good. Well, even if you're really good, every word that you say is an opportunity for you to something up, right?

Yeah.

And, you know, words really matter. Like, if I'm. If I'm. Objection. Handling. And I say, well, if you had the money, do you feel like this would work for you? And it's like, I would never say that because it's like, if you had the money, because chances are they're going to go, well, I have the money. That's not the issue. And so it's like, okay, so it's like they've given a money objection, but they're telling you they have the money. That's a weird place to be for anybody. Right? So if I went, like, well, money aside, if, you know, you were given a duffel bag full of cash, like, do you feel like this would work for you?

Yeah.

Right. So it's like, I word it differently because in men, if I say if you have the money, like, chances are a lot of guys are going to go, well, I have the money, even if they don't. So now they're lying.

Yeah, ego, right?

Because. Yeah, ego's crept in because you've challenged their status as a person. And that's just a. Not a smart thing to do. So it's a small change, but, like, that person is going to be infinitely easier to overcome if you, like, totally normalize the thing and be like, yeah, man, don't, you know, like, money aside, you know, like, do you feel like this work and it's just a small thing, but it makes a massive difference. I remember, like, you know, like, learning those. Learning those, like, steps and, and being able to like, stay calm in. In. Objection. Handling. I think that one of the main reason that people. There's. I think there's two main reasons why people don't overcome objections. One is they just don't know what to say. They just run out of to say. Right. Which is your own fault, I think you. Because, like, there's so much content out there. I don't know how you don't have like. Like my objection handling matrix. It's not perfect, but me, man, it'll like, it'll do the job for 80 of your objections, right?

Yeah, yeah.

It's pretty hard to up. It's all sitting there, it's all written out, it's free. It's been getting around for five years now and it works, you know, so, like, if you don't know what to say, then you haven't tried very hard, in my opinion.

Yeah.

You know, but then it's like they just don't stay calm. And frustration is the most difficult emotion to hide. And so people are sitting there like, how. And this is what you. And like you said like in like. And like, you said this earlier. Like, they're frustrated, like they don't have any empathy, you know, I mean, and I'd be curious to say, like, when someone is like that, what do you. What do you do to try and give them some better perspective to where they sort of don't feel that way anymore?

I think like, the big thing that I always just remind them of is like, that you need to be seen as a caring expert. So someone that actually gives a. About the other person and then show your expertise through questions. And it's just, I think I'm in a unique situation because I've always done fitness. I had a coaching business. So I just kind of explained to them what's going on in the person's head when they say something or when they ask this question or when the person says something, what they really mean. And I'm like, does that make sense to you? Like that this person's thinking like that when you say that? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, I can actually bet that you got this objection at the end because you said this thing. And they're like, yeah. And I think it just starts to connect the dots in their head that, like, there is a. There's a type of. There's an avatar that you're speaking to and, and there's patterns in the way they think and you can learn it, but you need to. You actually need to want the best thing for them. I always say, like, what you should be going through your Conversation thinking is like, is there a better option for this person? Like, is what they're saying. If they have a great option, you need to be willing to go like, oh, yeah, you should go do that. That sounds perfect. But you being willing to be that person then allows you to. When you're like, oh, no, our options better actually have conviction and to want what's best for them and for them to sense it. So you just. It takes a lot of, like, making it make sense in their own head. They're pretty much learning empathy. It's learned empathy as opposed to natural.

But, yeah, no, that's really good. I think one thing that I've done is like, I'll just ask them, like, okay, well, like, why didn't you know what to say? And then I'll. I'll just go in on them and be like, but I know what to say. Be like, why don't you. And then just be like, well, you know, it's like, well, the information's out there. Why the haven't you done it? I did it.

Yeah, right.

So it's like, you know, if. If you. If you put them in the position of the prospect, because they might be like, I just. Why don't they just do it? You know? I mean, they get frustrated. Like, they should just take action, these people. It's like, yeah, but you haven't done what I did. Why not? Yeah, you had access to the same I did. So it's like, you know, is that productive for me to just, like, coach you that way and go be better?

Yeah, right.

Because like, why didn't you do what I did? Why don't you make the money I make?

Yeah.

And that's actually one of the things that, like, I often give the example. I often put them in the shoes of the prospect, as if I was like, selling them sales training. And I'm like, if I just. Like you're saying, if I just blamed you and was like, why are you sure? And then even examples of like, if I was to ask you a question of that, like, that I maybe don't say it as directly, but like, why are you struggling? Why aren't you where you should be? And I just. Yeah, or like, pitching. Some people come into the pitch and they're like, oh, yeah, we'll kind of show you, you know, this and. And things like that and so on. And you're like, if I came to you with that conviction, would you have bought. Bought anything from me? No. So why do you think that that's normal to do that to someone else. They're not, they're not going to believe in you at all.

Yeah, I think like, I think one thing that I've learned is that I think salespeople have been taught some really, really nasty things. One is that like, you know, I think the whole pre qualification thing was, was not great one because like, I don't, I don't think it really reflects reality, you know, like financial pre qualifiers and stuff like that. Like. Oh, they're gonna, you know what, what it's done is it's sort of like told a whole generation of human beings like within an industry that like that like people are, with money are the only ones worth talking to. Which I think is sort of semi dangerous in itself, you know, because like that's just a, kind of a shitty way to act and be. The second thing is like, you know, it's, it, it's really, really commoditized humans, you know, we're like, they, they, they don't really understand that like they're talking to like a proper person and that they're flawed as well, you know. And it's like everyone's good at different, right? And everyone values different. And so, you know, and, and if you, I think if you put your, if you put your expectations and your wants and your desires and your ambitions and other people, like, it's a tremendously, tremendously sad place to be because like you'll be bitterly disappointed in everybody because nobody has the same ambitions, the same strengths, same weaknesses. Right. Like the things that I'm willing to do with work, 99% of people are nowhere near willing to do. But at the. I always sacrifice my, my, my fitness. Always.

Right.

And I know guys who are, you know, do really well, but they never sacrifice their fitness. And it's like they'll probably never do what I can do in business because I am willing to sacrifice that. But they'll probably like live longer and there will have to come a time where I have to stop doing it.

Yeah, yeah.

There's only so many things you can prioritize exactly.

Like, you know, you can't be a hundred, you can't be an all in or all out person, you know, because if you're all in or nothing, then you're probably nothing on nearly everything because you can't be all in on your family. You can't be all in on your, on your, you know, balance. I don't really think it exists very much. It's just like your priorities at the time. But to like assume that Somebody's priority should be what you want it to be. Just because you want to make a sale is ridiculous, you know, and, yeah, it's a level of narcissism that I, you know, I used to have, but I don't think people see it that way. But that's really what it is. It's like, no, no, like, what I want for you is more important. Right.

Yeah.

And so what that does is it makes you. Makes all. There's a venom behind how you talk if it's like that. Whereas if you just talk and it's real and you're like, yeah. And you sort of understand that, like, that that person, the decisions that person makes, are an amalgamation of their entire life, every experience that they've had, you know, and so, like, once you realize that, like, and you realize that you're not Tony Robbins, you're not gonna, like, fix that person in 45 minutes or 30 minutes and you're, you know, and there is nothing that you can do that will make that person buy. There's nothing. Or, like, then you sort of stop worrying about it, you know, because, like, if, if, if. Because you can do everything perfectly and they still won't buy.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

What are you trying to do? You know, so the key is, like, just do a process that has a pretty good chance of working. Yeah.

I always describe it like, you know, there's only one conversation that matters, and it's not the conversation you're having with them, it's the conversation they're having with themselves. And you can only do your best to help the side of them that wants to change and have a voice and to say the right things to themselves.

Yeah.

You can't make. You can't make that side win because it's an internal conversation inside them. So whether they do it or not, you have no control. But you can just do your best to help them to make a solid case for themselves as to why they want to change. But if they view you, like, as an enemy, they're not even going to let you in on that conversation. They're just going to stretch out. So.

Yeah, and. Yeah, that's. That's. That's sort of totally right. And that's what leads people to be able to say sort of rougher things if that's the way you want to go down it. Because it does come from, like, a genuine place, you know, that's why, like, if I'm coaching people, like, I'm very rough on them because one, like, I've learned I'VE coached a lot of people. And so, like, I've learned that, like, you know, being subtle and coaching doesn't sink in. So, like, being over the top, like, I remember. I don't know if you're, if you're old enough to remember Charles Poliquin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dudes. No.

Yeah. He was like the top conditioning coach on the planet for a long time. I. I did his courses when I was a pt. Like, I learned directly from him. I went out and flew out and, you know, did stuff with him and all that kind of stuff. Really, really smart guy. And he, you know, he was a phenomenal, like, you know, phenomenal strength coach. Like most of the that people do in Sprug is, you know, his, which is again, an amalgamation of everyone's, but his system is fantastic. Right? Um, and so I remember, like, you know, I'm not dumb. And he was like, teaching the sort of, you know, using such verbose language, like, donate carbs. Like, that's what he would say to people, like, donate carbs. It's like, well, and so I remember like being in this room because I did like a seven day course. I remember like getting a kind of a candid moment with him. And I was like, when you say don't eat carbs, like, that's a very broad. Like, you mean blueberries? What are you talking about here? It's not. And he goes like. But if I say, like, if it goes. If I say exactly what I mean, then, like, they're gonna take a percentage of that and then they're gonna dilute that down and give it to their clients. And it's gonna be like, maybe limit bread every now and then. Right. But if I say donate carbs, then maybe their clients stop eating bread.

Yeah, right.

And it was like, yeah. He was like, you gotta, you gotta. You gotta teach the room. And I was like, oh, they're idiots. He was like, yeah. Like, he was like, yeah, right. So he's like, he's. Because, because again, what he's teaching is gonna be filtered down to the clients of the people that he's teaching. So if he, if he uses subtleties, that subtlety gets filtered into even more subtleties or just straight up, you know what I mean? And, and so what he does is he uses sort of verbose language in order to get a point across, you know?

Yeah.

And so like, that's sort of, you know, over the years, that sort of what I do, I do some more nuanced stuff too, but it's like, you know, Sometimes you need. If you need him to stop doing something, you have to be quite verbose about it. Like, I was on a call a while ago, and I was like, you sound retarded. You know, he's like, what? And I was like, you speak too slow. You sound. He's like, oh. I was like, you're gonna stop doing that now. Yeah. Right. You know, instead of going like, listen, your cadence is a little bit below. Right. Like, you sound like a retard, mate. He's like, oh, okay. All right. I guess, like, he wants to fix that problem, you know?

Yeah.

You know, and so. But, you know, the way that you communicate. But again, like, if I say that from an angle of, like, arrogance and, like, I'm a dick, but it's like, no, I'm saying it in a way where it's like, I actually want you to fix this problem, and this is just the way in which I think it's best to communicate it to you.

Yeah.

You know, and I rarely get, you know, any. Rarely if any pushback, sort of pushback or sort of, like, offense taken because, like. Like, oh, I'm. I'm here to help, you know, like, that's just how I think you should do it. Like, if you don't like the way I say it, you're more than welcome to go somewhere else.

Yeah.

Which is fair enough. Like, I've got no problem with that, you know, But I think, like, you know, getting your point across in coaching is. In coaching is difficult. I think that people don't realize sort of how difficult good. Good coaching is, especially in, like, a group environment, you know, and, like, how you run those sessions and how you get the most out of it and how you pull things out of people and how you don't just make it boring and all that kind of good stuff. It's a. It's a difficult, I think, think to get right. And just because you're good at something doesn't mean you can coach it. Just because you're not that good at something doesn't mean you shouldn't coach it either. Yeah.

Yeah, it's definitely a different skill set. I mean. Yeah, it's one of those things, like, I have done coaching. I've done a lot of coaching from just, like, managing teams and. And stuff like that. But now that it's on a bigger scale, it's just like, more. You start to get really in tune with the. Again, it's empathy. Like, it's. You start to get really in tune with the types of problems that they have. And it's so funny. Like, some of the situations that they get themselves in on a call when I'm like, I don't think I've ever been in that situation. So I need to actually think about how to fix it. Like, where the person's like, you're just like. The person would never say that to me on a call. So it's like you really have to be able to problem solve and figure it out and really try to. So it is, it's funny. It's a skill in itself. Definitely. No, I am enjoying it. I'm definitely the same. Similar style as well. I think I'm quite direct with one.

I think, I think it works.

Problems?

Yeah, I think it's. It's quick too, because you don't. You don't need to mince words. You've only got a certain amount of time. Teaching at seventh level was interesting because, like, there were so many different niches. It was really interesting. Like, you learn. You learn like a ton. I think one thing that was cool to see was like, the things that crossed over really well and the things that you can take from, you know, like, certain different types of sales and the things that, like, yeah, the things that work in other industries and like, they go kind of hand in hand, you know, and then being able to a great, A great role play. Like, I think one of the better types of sessions that I used to run was when you don't sell what you sell, because I think, like, it gives people a reliance on the process. Because a lot of people, like, when they role play, they just sort of fall into a thing. So role plays, I think, should be much harder than the real thing. But it's not easy to find role play partners that can do that. But one of the things is, like, if you can, if you role play things that you don't know anything about, like, hey, water filtration services.

Yeah, right.

And I do that all the time, and I've been doing that for years. So for me, it's very easy. It's like, I just go, oh, like, what's the problem? It solves like this. Okay, that's it. Right? So it means, like, that you just have to know the. All you have to do is know the process and the problem and then from there you can put it together. And it makes you really good at just figuring out. And it makes you have a lot of, like, conversational flexibility, you know, where people are giving you, like, you know, curveballs left and right. It's. It's quite advanced and it's difficult. But like, once you bunch people can kind of crack that, it means that like they should be able to bounce between offers. Yeah. I mean, like, even if they have like seven, five different fitness offers or whatever it is, because, like, I never found that difficult. I can sell. I could have eight calls and there could be eight different things. It wouldn't. It wouldn't phase me, bother me, or I wouldn't think twice about it, but it would break most. They just can't do it. They can't toss which like that. But it's because, like, they're not leveraging the process. They're leveraging like their experiences of selling it and role playing it. Whereas, like, you want to use the experiences to get really good at the process so that you sort of don't have to. Yeah, I mean, like, I think that that's a really, really good role play technique. The other one would be like making people do it really fast. That one's super effective. Yeah, that's my. That's one of my favorite ones where like they have to complete the sale in 12 minutes, but they can't talk fast or skip anything. It teaches like interruptions and it teaches like really, really precise probing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, I think I was blessed in that my first ever Sales job was 30 minute back to back calls. So I had no choice but to be like just ruthlessly efficient. So. But it's something that I definitely see people struggle with. And kind of the point you were saying is like, same thing is like the very first thing I always try to do is give them that structure, that process so that they can actually start to use it again. So.

Yeah, awesome, man. And if people want to find out more about you, where can they find you?

Check me out on Facebook is probably the best place. I'm still very much figuring out my content strategy. I also have a free school group, so they can jump in there if they'd like. The link is below littered all over my page, but it's called Fitness sale secrets.

Yeah.

All right. Awesome, man. All right, dude. Well, it was great to meet you and I'm sure we'll. I'll see you on the committed coaches huddles.

Yeah, looking forward to it.

All right, guys. Thanks guys. If you like this stuff, like, subscribe. Good stuff. Bye.