Mindset for 2023 -- CIFC Episode 140
Matt Ryder, an ex-special forces sniper turned entrepreneur, talks mindset in sales and coaching. They examine whether mindset coaching actually works and what it misses. Personal stories mix with hard questions about motivation and the sales process.
If you want to have a good mindset going into 2023, watch this video. Don't look away. Watch. If you don't watch, you have a bad mindset.
Yeah, that's what they say. That's what.
My microphone just fell apart.
Because of your mindset?
Yeah, it is.
Ex special forces sniper turned entrepreneur, I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast, and I'm telling you to put that coffee down. Down, down.
Hello, sir. Hello.
So something we've talked about a few times. I don't know if we've talked about it, like, in detail. Like, we're going to today. We're talking about mindset going in 2023, but something that comes up all the time in multiple industries, but it seems to be a catch cry of a lot of coaches is that your mindset is incorrect.
Yeah. Well, I think that, you know, as a coach, I can probably do everything perfectly, be the best coach on the planet. And if my students don't get results, I'm pretty sure it's just their mindset.
So, like, that is kind of the out, right? It is, I think. Let me play devil's advocate, because instead of just you and me agreeing the whole time, I think that mindset in regards to, like, sales probably is. Does have some level of importance in getting you onto the call in that, like, you know, you have to, like, mindset plays a role in actually stepping up and doing the things. But I think that I totally agree with you that, like, if you. In the doing of the things, it doesn't actually help. That's all about process.
Yeah. So I think, if I'm hearing you correctly, I think. Are you saying, like, the identification of a problem? Is that what you're saying?
No, what I'm saying is, like, as a sales guy, like, you see a lot of people who, you know, I'm interested. I want to learn this stuff. Right. I want to. I want to come on board. I want to become a better sales guy.
Okay.
Looking at the various sales coaches, the mindset work that I'm gonna do or that I need, the mindset that I need is something that will actually get me to begin the work.
Well, I think we need to define. Define the term first.
Yeah.
Like, hit me with it.
Well, I don't, you know, I don't know if there is one. I think it would be defined by different people in different ways, which I think is probably part of the problem.
Okay.
I think that's why it's probably. Obviously there'll be a Webster's Dictionary definition or whatever.
Yeah, but we mean in the, in the common usage collateralism of the industry.
I guess. Like for me, one of the things that sort of I just found is ridiculous in the whole sales training space was like, you know, I used to get asked all the time, what's your, what's your routine? Like, how do you get, how do you get ready? I was like, what do you mean? I just didn't know what they were meant like, what do you mean get ready for? I was like, it's a fucking chat.
Yeah.
Like, oh man, better do some push ups and medicate so this chat doesn't go badly. What the fuck? So I think like for me, like everyone was like, oh, the mindset of a good sales rep. It's like, I just.
Yeah.
You know, so I think like their, their definition is like, what is the. Like, I don't, I don't know. Like, I think people mistake it with like mental fortitude.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Like mental toughness.
Yeah.
But I don't think that's what they mean. You know, I've been asked all the time like, oh, you just have a. And the catch cry is all, you know, like, because I'm like, I don't really just. I just don't think it's much of a thing.
Thing.
And they go, it's because you have a good mindset. I go, well, that's a fantastic logic loop that's impossible to get out of.
Yeah, totally.
You know, so like it's a logic. I think it's a bit of a logical fallacy. But I, I think what it is, is, you know, for me and you, we were just talking about this at lunch is like, I just never been a.
But so you and I both are trainers and coaches in, in totally separate things. But we both do train people and, and then like train from scratch as well as tweak the already good to be much better. Yeah. In fact even brought in as consultants to people who are often as good or better than us in order to sort of like, hey, where do you see, where's the gaps? You know, what am I missing? How can I refine which is the.
Best stuff to do?
Totally. That's what I love to do.
Yeah.
And we're both good at that, you know, very successful in our own spaces. But I am constantly. Not constantly, but enough that it is concerning to me asked to help with the sort of like life coaching part of like how do I get on the path to being towards where you Are.
Yeah.
And I get very uncomfortable with that because, like, I don't have the hero's journey. Like, for me, as a dog trainer, I was terrible. I had no idea. And I had to learn. And I became good. Like, it's the hero's journey that everybody goes through. Right. To be a known person in your thing. But I had an incredible childhood. I had fantastic parents. You did the same.
Same.
Right.
Brilliant.
I accidentally joined the army because it seemed like a lot of fun.
Yeah.
My friends were. And I thought, fuck it.
Travel, meet people, kill them.
Turns out that I have the right personality to go into special forces. I was invited to do so. It turns out I'm also tough enough to get in and now I'm not anymore.
Right.
And so I've never had the, like, oh, no, my life's falling apart. I have to come back from this and, like, understood the steps. And I get very uncomfortable with the idea of like helping somebody else do that because I have no qualifications in doing that. That's not my thing. I can tell you what I do, but that's not very relevant to anybody other than myself.
I think, I think a lot of the time that hero's journey in terms of mindset is people who broke under pressure and then came back from that. I just haven't broke under pressure yet. Like, I've been incredibly broke.
Yeah.
In very bad situations.
Yeah.
Like where I was like, you know, I had an eight month pregnant wife. I had a two year old. I had $4,000 in the bank, I had $6,000 rent check due. And I was like, all right, I better figure this out.
Yeah.
But I was just like, okay. There's. I. I looked at the same way. There's a problem, there's a solution. I can find it and I will find the solution. All I had to do is do that. And I just kind of did as many things as I could and put as many irons and as many fires as I could because I was like, well, like dwelling over this. It's just. There's no purpose behind it. Yeah. So, like, I think the hero's journey of mindset would be like, I went broke, was a terrible provider for my family, had to go. Went. Became homeless, and then figured out I should have just done something about it. Like, I don't know the. I don't know that it would all be. End up being the same thing. Which is like, I accepted my circumstances and did something about it.
Yeah.
That's the end result.
Yeah.
I just decided not to break first.
So that's kind of the issue when we have people who are. I'm a business coach. I'm going to teach you business and, and how to do or sales or whatever it is.
Yeah.
But I'm also a mindset guru specialist. Gonna fix your, your daddy issue problems, whatever.
Well that's a whole separate kettle of fish because I find breaking people incredibly easy. But bringing them back and giving them strategies where I can have long term growth is a whole different thing.
That's therein lies the issue rate umbrage.
To people who think that they can just have like, like I had a business coach a while ago, he's a total fuck bag and I've told him that is to his face.
Right.
And he was huge on mindset. And I remember like I went to this retreat of his and it was like fucking punching boards and walking over coals and I was like okay, yeah. Everyone was like, I was like it's just walking over coal's guys. Like yeah, it's, it's designed to be able to do it. And I was like even in fact the wood that they use just doesn't burn hot enough to burn you. I was like there you go guys. It's low flammable wood or whatever the fuck it's called.
Yeah.
Because I googled it. I was like oh, this is stupid. Anyway, so I was like, I just didn't agree with it. But what he did do was he was just a good question asker so he would be able to like break people at that. And you know, like it's, that's not that hard. Like everyone's had hardships and sad things and bad things. Like I've watched plenty of people die. Like you ask me enough questions, I'll get emotional about it. Because like watching young people die is not pleasant. Yeah, right. And so, but the problem is like those are deep underlying things. And like as someone who's gone through like I've been to psychologists, like the strategies they give you are, are proven like there's a. And if it doesn't work there's a reason why and they can then go okay, well that's interesting. Now maybe this is, you know, same as with a dog or whatever. When you're diagnosing something, someone with a deep underlying sense of what's happening will try different things for different reasons and then be able to problem solve along the way and give you strategies to be able to like improve your resiliency or your life or whatever. That's a psycholog psychologist or a Psychiatrist, a degree that's difficult to do. And a mindset coach is someone who is a good question asker and then motivating. And that is a recipe for disaster. And I've seen people like, in that retreat, someone broke up with their wife.
Yep.
Because they were quote unquote holding them back. And I was like, I pulled him aside and I was like, are you sure this is the decision you want to make on a three day business retreat?
Yeah. Yeah.
I was like, are you sure? Because you're about to significantly change your life moving forward based off the recommendation of a guy. I was like, I think you should just think about it. He's like, nah, man, this bitch is holding me back. I was like, from what? Gun?
Yeah.
From what?
Yeah.
You own a gym.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah.
It was just so crazy. And then like. And I saw that being used as like sales tactics. I saw that get translated into sales and I saw people who were in no position to purchase 25, 000 business coaching packages being sold the dream and that I will fix you. And you're. The reason why you're not successful is because you're broken and I can fix you. And look at me. You know, I was like, that is a disgusting business practice.
Yeah.
And that's where like probably my hatred, my bad mindset around mindset comes from some of that stuff. But it's like you don't. None of these people have the ability to pull them back. And not even Tony Robbins. Like, I just don't believe it. I don't believe that in a three hour seminar you can fundamentally change the way that someone acts. You know, they, they would need a series of 6, 12, 18, 24 months working with someone on a regular basis to be able to try these strategies in real world scenarios.
You know, let me just unpack some of the stuff you said there because I think one of the first things you touched on is sort of finding that loose thread on someone and then just picking at it and so easy until it completely unravels. You and I both have actually like been formally trained in how to do that.
Right.
Like that is a thing that you have not just a natural skill set up, but have actually been taught how to unravel someone.
Like, and how to not be unraveled.
Yeah. But also never taught how to bring them back because that's not part of the gig. The gig is get the information and then leave a quivering mess. And that's their problem.
Which is basically what a sales call is like. You're. You're doing that.
Yeah.
On a much smaller degree and just. Just sort of showing them the mirror, you know what I mean?
So that's what I want to sort of tease apart is if you're good at that and you choose that to be your sales tactic technique, and you're going to be a mindset coach, very likely, the people that you're doing that to in order to sell them into the package is your clients. Right. Like, yeah, yeah. So a lot of the providers of sales training, sales coaching, whatever, that are harping on mindset and are going to dismantle people and bring them back together, hopefully are actually dismantling them in order to sell them into the next level of dismantling.
It's an mlm of psychological and emotional damage.
Yeah.
And maybe eventually you spend enough money and buy enough to get to the level where they attempt to put you back together and hopefully they have the skill set.
But that coach hasn't been put back together by his coach.
Yeah, it kind of reminds me, you know, like the original behavioralists, right. So like pre Skinner, you know, Thorndike and other people like that. We're talking in the 50s when they were figuring out sort of operant conditioning, things like that, they had an arrogance around them about how you could just control people.
Right.
And they had this kid, Weird Albert, unfortunately, or maybe luckily for him, he died young, so they never got to see what kind of happened. But it was a baby. And they were like, look, we can give him an aversion to rodents. And so they would show him a rat and then like, hey, behind him.
Right?
Like behind. And so before too long, clearly, you show him a rat and he like breaks down crying.
Yeah.
And then, you know, they. Notes sort of like, oh, and it generalized, like, he also does it with rabbits, but not with small fluffy dogs. Like, they like really arrogantly sort of noticing these things. And then they're like, okay, so now we've created a version. Now we can create a positive association. Watch us recover him from this. Oh, wait, it didn't work.
Right.
And so they had that. They just. With this poor kid. The baby was like 18 months at the time, Albert. And these videos are all over YouTube. You can see this stuff, right? And so it kind of. It reminds me a lot of what those guys kind of had to Confront in the 50s, 40s and 50s is now what we see quite a bit with the mindset coaches and stuff now, where it's like, watch me do this. And it's like, oh, I Couldn't do it. Oh, well, goodbye.
Yeah. And I think one of the problems that I have is I haven't met a mindset coach yet that is it just a. Just falling apart. Like the builder's house.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's the same sort of thing. The plumbers. The plumber's tap is always dripping.
Yeah.
It's like, like life coaches, right? Like, what a stupid. What a stupid.
Have you ever become one?
You ever met a successful one?
I haven't, no, I don't, but. But to be honest, I don't really know any. It's not like personally, I don't really know.
It's just like if, if, like if you were that good at life, you'd do it for free.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, if you were that good, you would have figured it all out. And you go, hey, I'm just gonna. I'm retired. Retired at 35. I don't have life. If a guy who's retired at 35 and has just crushed it wants to life coach me for free, I'd be like, yeah, bro, bring it on. You figured out life. I was at a. The street I live on is fairly nice. And it was like the 25th annual road.
Yeah. The Straight Cruisers party.
How'd it go?
It was great.
Yeah.
Everyone was old as fuck.
Yeah.
And super and rich. And I was like, just, hey, godly rich.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, there's some nice watches around here.
Yeah.
I was just chatting everyone. What do you do? Where have you been, guys? Like, I was in mining and did this and I was just asking him questions. I was like, these guys have figured something out, you know. One guy was like, probably 55. And I was like, retired. I was like retired like five years ago. Turned at 50. He's like, hey, what'd you do? He's like, I sold this company. I sold this company. I'm just like, oh, sweet, what'd you do? And you know, he's basically. He was like, I figured out probably problems and I figured out solutions nobody else could figure out. And then I turned that into a company and I sold them. I was like, great way to make money. If you have a brain that can solve problems others can't, you're guaranteed to be snapper do.
Right?
And actually it's really interesting. He figured out he owned like a filing, like a. They would like store documents for people. Right. And then he started like physical documents. Yeah. He started a tech company because you still have to store physical documents. Started a Tech, an RFID company which would RFID every single document. And then, like, then from there, you could create exclusions. So you basically. You could walk around with a. He had an RFID that was good for 6 meters. So you can go in between walls. You can walk around with this, like, Geiger counter type thing, and you figure out when you're close to the document. Because what they figured out one time is, like, there's this huge law firm, and they were missing a box of documents, and they couldn't find it. They needed it. Turns out some chick was using as a foot rest under her desk. These are just problems you don't think of unless you have a giant company. Right. So he figured out how to do that and how to track every single document. So you. You will never lose a document.
Wow.
You can even track if. Because they had the RFID counters on the way out. So if anybody took a document, it would track. This person took this document at this time, and it was all. It was brilliant. And he sold it to some massive software company. I was like, fucking genius. But, like, those people have. They figured shit out, you know, I mean, it's like they're. But they would give me advice for free. Like, they don't.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I mean, so I just, like, I just take real umbrage with it. And I think also one of the things that kind of pisses me off about it is, like, it's the. Just the. Out of it, you know, like, oh, it's your mindset. And I've heard that on business coaching calls. Oh, it's just your mindset. It's like, well, maybe the process sucked. If you're like. If your default is like, well, my shit can't. Can't be off, you know? And yes, like, I used to sell business coaching programs, and people actually have to do it, but to me, it's just. The motivation threshold hasn't been met. Yeah, that's it. Like, that's. That's like. Mindset is an illusion. Because some. It's just like, as soon as you believe in it, it's now a crutch.
Yeah.
Because if you believe in it, then the reason why you didn't close that sales call is because you didn't do your ritual.
Mm.
It's like, no, mate. Like, it's just the process. You probably didn't follow it or you got distracted or whatever. It's. You just didn't do it. That's the way it is. So I think, like, the big one is, like, just don't buy into it as a thing.
Okay.
And then from there, you'll just do the things that required to fulfill the needs that you have. And like, I talk about, like, we talk about our food and training. I just haven't hit the level yet at the moment where I'm truly motivated to do much about it. I train three times a week, but I enjoy training now. And like, my goal for the year. I started training at the beginning of the year. My PT went, what's your goal? I go, my Pete. My goal this year, bro, is just to come. Perfect is to come. Because I haven't trained consistently in five years. So I was like, if I can just make this a habit that I do something that I do three times a week, every week, it'll just become ingrained in me and I'll never stop. That's the goal going into next year. Like, okay, now I might add one thing to that. Like, I'm getting strong again. I'm benching over 100 for reps pretty easily now and all that kind of stuff. So I'm like, sweet, we'll work on strength. Because, like, I don't have to with much else from that and I'm pretty naturally good at that anyway. So I was like, we'll work on strength. So now we're doing, like, lower rep stuff. But, like, for me, like, I know what I have to do to lose weight. I have to eat chicken and fucking rice three times a day. Yeah, Like, I know that. And I just love cheese.
Yeah.
And I love cheese more than I love having a six pack, I feel.
Yeah.
And there will become a time when at some point in time where my want to have a six pack again, because I have had one will outweigh my love of cheese.
Do you think so?
Maybe. Yeah, at some point it might. I might, like, for my 40th birthday, right. I might want to fucking come in on a helicopter, on the boat, wearing a linen suit and a.
Right.
Have my moment.
You know what I mean? Like, this is my idea, just doing it, right?
We'll do a joint.
Yeah.
You can be fat. And I'll be.
I was gonna say we'll be able for.
And after, Right? So, yeah, like, there. There will. There will be some sometime that makes sense. My wife is super hot. I look at her, she looks at me. Yeah, you know, fuck you.
Yeah, right? Yeah.
You know, I win. But that's all it really is. And when I told people in sales, and I talk about, like, because I talk about mindset and sales Every now and then. But I actually don't use the word mindset. I feel I use, like, the totality of your experiences. Do you feel like that can affect your decision making? And then I just talk about motivation. It's like, that's why, like, people who sell, like, doctors will get people to lose weight.
Mm.
It's like you'll die. So.
Yeah.
Like a dark motivation.
Yeah.
I think. You know, again, let me play devil's advocate. I think that you make the joke and say, oh, people say that you don't think mindset's important because you have a good mindset, and that does trap you from which there is no escape.
It does.
But I do, to an extent, agree with that. But I think that, like, sales process, business acumen, all those kinds of things are a separate thing from mindset and. And looking after yourself and staying motivated and all that kind of stu. Is something you have to do, and to some people, that's natural, and you just do it, you know, because it feels like the right thing to do. But what's amazing to me is sometimes you do meet people who, like, don't. Who have never worked out.
Right.
And have never overcome a challenge or anything like that. And so they don't know that there is, you know, there's something to be gained from doing that and that you can be improved by doing it. But I. As I say, I think that's a completely separate thing from the process of selling someone something. And I think that's why that mindset training, if. If you were to do it or if you were to get a life coach, like, it would be someone who helps motivate you because you're missing that you should have. That you should have, like, an accountability partner or something like that or something that motivates you, that you understand that is inherent or, you know, you developed by yourself. And if you don't, then bringing in a professional to help you with that is not a bad idea.
It was certainly not more like professional goal setting.
Exactly.
Which, again, and goal setting is a skill in itself.
Yeah.
Because a lot of people do too big goals or the two too small. Like, there's. And again, if someone was, like, all gonna help you set your goals, and I'm gonna, like, hold you accountable to doing them. And then in order to do that, I need to know the reasons why you want them.
Yeah.
And the consequences of never achieving them.
Yeah.
Like, I need to know those two things, because then I can create, like. I can create, like, an area for you to operate in. And it's like it. But I always tell people, like, if you choose to operate outside of that area, it's fine. You've made a choice.
Yeah.
So it's an active choice at all times. Like when I was a personal trainer, I would say like, these are, this is the parameters that you need to do in order to have the outcomes that you want. I was like, but at any stage, it's just a series of choices that you make. That's all it is, you know? But I also think that, like, I think one of the problems is that like deep issues get lumped into mindset. So I think like mindset should be considered very surface level. But the problem is like they're going deep with people. Like I had clients when I was a PT that like the reasons why they self sabotaged. It was not a mindset issue. It was a deep seated sense of abandonment and self hatred from a series of horrible events. You know what I mean? And it was like the thought of succeeding was actually worse than failing because if you were still unhappy with your life and you succeeded in this one thing of which you blamed your entire livelihood on this, on being fat, and then you were fat and still a piece of shit. Oh, now I'm gonna kill myself.
Yeah. Right.
So I might as well eat until I throw up, you know?
Yeah.
And so like, but that's not a mindset coach thing. And I would go, I go, you need to speak to a psychologist because you have like, this is going to take years of trauma. That will take years to fix.
Yes.
And, and by having this veil that like, oh, we'll do a 12 week life coaching program and I'll fix all your problems. It's like, that is such a load of shit. And as a sales guy, like, I don't mind a load of shit.
Right.
But I was like, that is such a hefty pile of elephant fucking dung that I can't shovel it.
Yeah.
You know, and I think that like the industry is just, that's what it is.
Yeah.
It's just a fucking catch cry for people who like either aren't good enough at teaching stuff or just aren't honest with people.
Yeah.
So. So there's this thing that we do, right? Say like if a dog has a little bit of a nerve issue or something. So I'm going to send a dog to bite someone and it's got to go through a barricade and it's got an issue with that barricade. Right. It's something that like, you know, Some one thing that we use, like a pile of cardboard boxes to a dog. It looks like a wall, right. They don't understand that's a pile of cardboard boxes. And you gotta teach that dog, like, how you can smash through a wall. One of the things you do is you whip them into a frenzy. The person that they're gonna bite on the other side, like, if you're doing bite work or whatever, will like agitate the out of him. You get the dog into a frenzy where he's not thinking clearly.
Yeah, yeah.
And then you release him to do the thing and he'll just smash through it. And so I think that's what. The exact same process that I do on purpose in order to have a dog smash through something. Now I know that, that that's a. That's a. That's not fixed. That's not really changing anything in the dog. That's losing clarity in order to achieve a name.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think it's the same when I see like, you know, it comes up in the feed or, you know, you see the ads for sales coaches or whatever who are like, we're going to get on the call, like warriors, super tight pants. And they're whipping people into a frenzy.
Yeah.
And they're getting people super excited. And then they smash through the barricade and they're like, okay.
And they go and sell credit processing services.
But this, then there's no skill set, right? And it's like, I, like, I got whipped into a frenzy and now I'm here and I'm like, the fuck, right? Like, I don't know what to do.
But then as well, it gives that person a bad out to be like, oh, my prospect had a bad mindset. And it's like the loop just continues.
Yeah.
And it's like, it's just such a load of garbage.
Yeah.
It's like, no, dude, it's Whenever. Whenever people say, like, I go, listen, everyone can be sold. There is not a single prospect anyone's ever spoken to that could not have been sold. Doesn't mean that, like, the one person who could sell that guy could sell the next guy.
Right?
But there's a puzzle, and all you got to do is put the pieces together, right? No matter how disinterested, whatever. There's someone who would put that piece together because they would have had like a similar series of life circumstances which has caused them to be able to interact with that person in a way that is seemingly undoable. Right. And so if you just think of it that way, then you just go, oh, well, the world is just a puzzle. And it's like I just got to figure out how to put the pieces together that I need to put together to get the outcomes that I want. And as soon as I put a barrier of some ethereal veil that I have to pass through and I don't know when I've passed through it and like, there's nothing tangible, then it's just. It's just an excuse as to why something didn't happen for you.
Yeah.
Oh, man. I. 1984, I would have fucking kicked a football over the mountains. Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Like, if only the coach put me in the game. It's like, well, if you weren't good enough to get in the game.
Yeah.
Why would you have that outcome?
Yeah.
If you were good enough, you would have been in the game.
Yeah.
You know, so that's kind of what I see. And like, you know, and I don't want to, like, shit on people, but it's just like. I just think it's just a load of garbage.
No, but like, I am really. I'm all about healthy mind living.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And looking after yourself and doing all the things. Like, you know, I do the journaling and I meditate and the sauna and all the. That you got to do. But that's totally separate from my job. That allows me to be really good at my job and keeps me like, able to.
But that's. That's your routine for like self care.
Yes, exactly.
Which is a totally different.
Nothing to do with my job.
Yeah. So, like, for me, my. Sorry.
Not nothing to do with my job. That having a well put together self allows me to be able to do my job.
So for me, I don't have a lot of that stuff. I'm very internalized. So like, I. All I need is time to think. That's the only thing I need. I need like time by myself. And it doesn't have to be a lot of it, but like a sauna, I like sauntering. Like, you know, I generally just watch basketball. Right. Sauna. Like that. Because I love watching basketball. Like, that is probably my favorite pastime. The only thing I watch during basketball season, the only thing that I will watch is basketball games.
Okay.
That is it.
Yeah.
I get home basketball. Like, that's it. And so that to me is very. Because I just. I just love the sport. Right. But like, I don't have a lot of those things. And so for me, like, I just. I like to think about Stuff and have the opportunity just to sit there and kind of do nothing. And that is what like. So I go for like walks and I go for my one wheel and I'll sit there and I'll listen to stuff and that's like, that's time for me to just think. And if I don't have that, then like I'm just not as good at my job.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Because I haven't had a chance to think through things deeply because like for me it's just about it. It's just a series of problem solving. That's why like, you know, the CEOs, they always see him in like the movies that have like the putting green. It's always kind of thought of that as like, oh, this guy is just putting nothing. But it's like that's, it's like there's a for. For me at least to be able to think properly, I need to be doing something physical. Like I need to. My body needs to be preoccupied in order to allow my kind of like the deeper parts of my brain to kind of start thinking about stuff and putting pieces together. So for me I just go for a one wheel or go for a walk or whatever like that, like outside.
Yeah.
And that's my version of the putting, you know. And it's funny because like I didn't really realize that was a thing that needed to be done to like really think through problems, you know, like. Because I didn't think people thought through problems. And some people, most people don't. You know like when Jordan Peterson says, like I've thought on this and yeah, he's like been in a room for six hours and silence by himself, you know, like that's him thinking about stuff.
But that's fucking hard to do, man.
Really hard to do.
It is hard work.
Yeah. That's why I need to be doing something physical. Like I need to go out there and like basketball. I can just tune out to it because like, you know, if you miss five minutes of basketball, you've missed like a dunk. It doesn't mean no biggie. Yeah, it's like. But like my father in law was the MD of a large bank, right? His big job. And I remember I'd see him at like 3 o' clock in the afternoon in the park reading the paper and I used to think, oh, look at this guy in his ivory tower, not doing, getting paid all the money. And then like I talked to him probably like it was probably like a month ago. He's like, how's everything going? It's good. And I was like, I'm just finding I need more time to think. And he was like, yeah, man. Like, that's your job, dude. Your job is to just intake information, solve the problem. And I was like. He was like, you need to have your time where, like, you just think it's like. And I was like, oh, that's why you're in the park. It's like, wasn't reading the paper. It was just like, that was the preoccupied thing. It was just lots of thoughts going on in his head.
Yeah.
Because like, those decisions are like high level investment banking decisions. Like, you're, you make a bad decision, your ass is in the line hard, you lose billions of dollars. There's no bueno.
Yeah.
You know, so, but like, for that it's just time, you know, but you know, I just, I don't think that like to, to do an activity. Like I used to say, like when I did like tons of sales, I would be like 2 o' clock in the morning, be like super tired, feeling like. But it's just like, who cares.
You know?
Like, who gives a shit?
Yeah.
It's just, it's such an easy thing to do.
Yes.
Fucking. Oh, man. How did you make that many dollars? Well, this is a secret. I sat down and I hit go on the auto dollar. And then when I finished work for the day, I hit stop.
Yeah.
People are baffled. Like I put up on Facebook. I was like, oh, the KPA for my guys is $600 a day. How is that even possible? Well, I was like, I was like, it's not, that's not even a full day work. And so I said, from $600 you have a 10% pickup rate, so you've got 60.
Right.
The dollar can do four to six dollars per minute. Let's say it's doing five. So you're looking at $5 per minute at 10% pickup rate. You get one pickup every two minutes. Only 50% of people are going to be able to talk to you. So if you have 60 pickups, you only have 30 people who are actually going to have an opportunity to talk to you. So those conversations go for 10 minutes, which is a long conversation.
Right.
Then you're looking at like, what, what's that? Like 300 minutes?
Yeah. Right.
Worth of actual talk time.
Yeah.
So 300 minutes, just a few hours. It's like. Yeah. And then you've got the time of dials in between. And then you've got lunch. There's a seven hour day. Was that that difficult? And from 30 people, if you can't, why can't you book half of them? So our KPI is 12.
Okay.
It's like from 30 conversations. So 600 equals 60, equals 30 equals 12. That's a full day's work pretty much including lunch. So you're looking at like an eight hour day. That just seems reasonable for someone with a full time job.
Yeah, totally.
And, and These people have KPIs of $50 a day. I'm like, what is everyone doing? And people, it's not like, have there.
Been different levels to that? Like, are they, are they dialing people that, you know, more qualified? And they are having those conversations with all of them.
Like, you know what, no one's got a pickup rate. There are some like, but again, like, that's why it's 12 book calls. Right? So it's. And, or okay, so like if you had, if you do $600, you might only book two, right. The next day you might do $300 and book 30.
Right.
So. But the averages will work out over the day. But it's like if you've done 600 dials, then you've done your best to get your 12 bookings.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So when I was doing it myself for the gyms, I didn't have an auto dialer. I had a phone. So I worked out it, I timed it takes me one minute to look at the spreadsheet to put the phone number in and hit go. It's about a minute, right? And then from there it was like ring, you know, so by the time the minute was up, had like four or five rings, boom, next one. So I knew I could do $1aminute. So I was like, well, sweet. If I can do $1aminute and 1 out of 10 pickup. 10 minutes to get one pickup. Perfect. If I know that 50% is 20 minutes to have one conversation, that conversation for me was 10 minutes to make the sale. 10 to 12 minutes. I was like, cool, I can make two sales an hour.
Mm. Yeah.
That just became. I was like, well that's, that's just. So I'll do that. So like now I know if I work an 8 hour day, I can make 16 sales a day.
Mm.
I was like, sweet. So I was like, perfect. I should definitely be able to do. So I was like, if I do X amount of hours, like at the worst case scenario, I'll make one, I'll make like five sales for the day and then I'll have some Days where everybody picks up and I could work for two hours and I could make 10 sales. Like. Yeah, it's all really quick. But I was like, you know, and then I just keep working on those days. It's a great day and make 35 sales and the next day I make two. But it all fucking works out to like 12 a day or whatever.
Yeah.
And so that's how I hit my KPIs.
I was just like, okay, so mindset doesn't have to come into it.
Numbers.
The mindset is preloaded in that I'm going to do this. I'm good.
It's an eight hour fucking workday. Like you're being employed.
Like you've done that, you've, you've ticked the mindset box. When you turn up for your eight hour workday, the next then is I'm going to actually do. Yeah, that's what I mean. But that's what I mean. That's when people say, oh wow, I can't believe you do that. You're like, no, that's, that's the reality of what you're saying.
Yeah.
You're not willing to put in a work day.
Yeah.
So like you, you commit to turn up and then it's just actually following the process of the thing.
Right.
Like just doing it. Doing the same thing every time. Just living in the monotony of it, you know. But everything is boring when you do it a lot.
Yeah, tell me about it.
Yeah, like everything. You do enough of something, it's fucking tedious.
Yeah.
People are sick of banging supermodels.
Exactly. Some.
So the difference between mindset being a part of your sales coaching versus just like, you know, this is process, this is how you do it.
That's the big difference, I think between like seventh level and the other ones.
Yeah.
Is I've never heard Jeremy talk about my mindset ever.
Okay, expand on that. For me, it's all just, this is how you do it. And if you don't have the, if you don't have the, the fortitude, the, the mindset to actually do it, then I can't help you.
Well, like I can tell you, like I can tell you Jeremy's personality is a deep seated need to be number one. And it's because his family was broke. That's why he's like very status driven. Right. That's why he likes like the cars and all that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? So like he is. Everything is like a lot of status stuff for him. So like his like his love language would be words of affirmation.
Right.
If you wanted to go on that, like you tell Jeremy things about good things about him and he gets really happy. Like for me, like I don't know if you've prescribed that like language thing. No, I understand mine's acts of service.
Yeah.
Like, so it's actually funny when we were going through a really stressful period probably like two months ago in the businesses and stuff like that, like Sammy was doing her love languages to try and help me, which is like words of affirmation and like gifts. I don't give a fuck about gifts. I couldn't give two shits. I have no to give about stuff. Like it doesn't matter to me anymore. I need acts of service. So then like I was just getting angry and fucking angry at home and then she kind of tweaked and she's like, ah. So she started doing everything for me so I didn't have to do a thing. And then I was just calm right down. Anyway, total side note. But so with Jeremy, like he was like the broke kid that had to wear like the fucked up cleatsuit. And so like for him, like he was made fun of for that. So that kind of shaped who he is as a human. Because that age of like 2 to 7 or 2 to 10 or whatever is so formative in your years that like he will never be the kid with broke shoes.
Right.
And so like that's just a, like a constant motivator in the back of his head is he has to have a high status in whatever situation he's in. And like in order to do that, like his formation of status is like things and money, you know, so that's how you motivate him and that's how he is motivated.
So you know, so you, you just gave some very insightful information into someone you work with very closely as well as yourself and your partner. And it would be easy for someone listening to be then like, well, that's mindset.
Yeah, but it's understanding the intrinsic motivation of the person and then using that. Yes. To get like, like for example, like this is really.
So let me, let me just explain. What I was saying is that's, that's hyper specific to the individual.
Yeah.
And so the idea and what we're shitting on is the like you just got to be a warrior and get out. Like that's the issue. It's not because I think, I feel like we're going to get feedback saying like, oh, you guys are just shitting on the idea of self care or like understanding. It's like, no, not at all. Like, that's a super important part of life. And being a rounded human that then is capable of doing work.
Yeah.
But it's hyper, hyper specific. And it's not like become a savage. Join the team. It's like, no, like figure out what motivates you.
Yeah. As a person.
Yeah.
Like, do some self reflection on like, you know, like for me, like, I am. And I'm actually something that I'm actively working on. Like, I was. Okay, so I was at that, I was at that event the other day. Event, that little Christmas party. Right. These are all people that are older, very successful, more successful than me. But like, for sure. Right. And. And like I actively trying because like one of the way that I participate in conversation is by saying, oh, yes, I have experience too. And here's an example.
Yeah.
That's not one upping. It's a way of like, that's one of the ways that I express myself in conversation.
That's.
I'm actively trying not to do it.
That's your add, you know, that's, that's. That, that is it.
Yeah.
That's how they did.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah.
I found that out about like a friend of ours who is we always to call two shits.
Right.
Like, he'd always up one up you.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, that's how. That's empathy for a person with addiction. So like anyone who's got a notch, that's how you show like, I understand. I have a story about that as well.
Yeah. So like, I'm actively trying because I know that that comes off as like you're trying to steer the conversation back to me.
Yeah.
But I'm not. I'm just trying to go like, oh, wow, I've experienced the same thing.
Yeah.
We have this. We have that in common.
Yeah.
So it's something that I like, I try actively not to do. And every now and then it comes and goes, but whatever. Right. Like I did it to you at the party the other day, like yesterday, right. Where you had that story and I had like an exact same story. And I said it and I was like, oh, I probably didn't need to do that.
Yeah.
Afterwards I was like, I should have just gone, great story.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Fuck that guy. Whatever.
Right.
You know, like, that's. That would probably be more. More would keep the conversation flowing better. Right. But I had this guy and he was like, they go, oh, meet this guy, he lives across the road from you. He has the same car as you. I was like, oh, great, man. Yada, yada, yada. He goes, yeah, I have the X4. And I was like, oh, yeah, great. I have the X6. They're super similar.
Right?
But like, I get it.
I was two numbers higher.
Yeah.
Like, I wasn't. And I was not trying to be a douche at all. And then he. And then someone goes, yeah, in the morning, I can never tell who's. Like, there's always a loud car that starts up. And the guy goes, yeah, I have the M package. And then I just went, oh, yeah, I have the comp package on mine, which is the gone above again, right? So like now I'm sitting here, this new guy going, I have the better version of the better car. And I sat back and like, I did it so flippantly and like, I don't even know if he really noticed or cared. He probably did. He seemed pretty happy with this car.
Yeah, he went home, punched the wall.
But I was like, that was like the, the opposite of what I should have just gone, beautiful car. Yeah, that's it.
I love it, love it.
Fantastic. And then he could have seen me drive my better car and realized I'm better than him. No, but like, that was like, ah, okay. But yeah, so like understanding like those intrinsic motivators, like in, you know, like that's kind of like it's one of the ways, like he, like Jeremy knows that about himself. Like, he knows that and he's like, that's his. I will never experience this again. And so like, that's. It's an active motivation for him.
Simon Sinek would call that like the dark. Why? Yeah, like your sort of negative reinforcer that you're sort of trying to escape.
Yeah.
And I think we do have those positive reinforces and those negative reinforcers, you know, I mean, like for me, like, I had a great childhood. My dad traveled a lot. So for me it's like, how do I walk the line? My dad provided a lot, Right. But he was gone for six months a year. So it's like, okay, how do I provide the same for my kids but not be gone six months a year? Because right now I could easily be gone six months a year. So now I'm breaking up. I've got like four one week chunks where I'm away. Yeah, that's a good middle ground that I can compartmentalize and go, okay, like, that's okay. And one of them, they come with me you know, so, like. But there's, you know, motivators for both. Because I liked going on tons of holidays and I was a kid, but I also liked when dad was around, and I would have liked dad be around more than the holidays that I went on, but I couldn't have both.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, especially, like, he didn't have zoom or Internet fast enough in order to like, sign a docuSign. It didn't exist. Right. So everyone's just playing the cards they have. And I'm sure when teleporting is a thing, you know, if they don't. If they figure out how to change everything, not. Not ruin the world.
Right.
With all the kidnappings that would happen.
Yeah.
But yeah, so, yeah, like, those motivators are important to understand.
Yeah, for sure. It's super important. And that, like, that is. But that's separate from the process of sales or anything that you're learning. Yeah, that's like a version of. That's you getting yourself under control and understanding that it's certainly going to help you in sales and like understanding it with other people. It's going to help you in all your relationships in understanding it.
Yeah.
People. But it's not going to give you technical skills.
Yeah, exactly.
For sure.
And I think, like, if you, if you understand your motivator, then you just. It's just a binary of. Is that important enough? Like, I've sat down with people and said, is the possibility is. Is you being at your grandchild's funeral, I mean, at your grandchild's wedding more important than cheese? Right.
Right.
Now I would say no, but, like, that's the question, you know, I mean, so it's like. Or are you gonna keep eating the cheese but just offset it with like a ridiculous amount of other healthy stuff, you know, like, look at Joe Rogan, man. I mean, that guy's trying to live forever.
Yeah.
You know, and if anyone with his high level of income advancing.
Yeah.
Killing it.
Yeah.
You know, but it's. Again, it's, you know, everyone's doing their for a reason. And I think if you accept that there's this veil that you never know if you cross over. And I think, like, people get into that flow state, which I totally believe in. Like, that. That's not a mindset thing. That's like a. Just when your brain. Like I was watching a Phoenix Suns game the other day and Devin Booker had like 50 points in the third quarter and he had shark eyes. Like he had. He had turned off. Devin Booker was no longer There and that that body was just. In that instance, everything was firing. He was doing crazy and he couldn't miss.
Yep.
And he just got into that state where like his boy, every. Everything had culminated into like that one game, but the next game we could to bed. You know what I mean? It's just.
But it all came together.
Yeah. And so like I believe in that flow state stuff, but I don't think that like, that's the exception. Like if you're. If you need to get into a flow state to do things well, like, my God, man.
Yeah.
It's going to be difficult because those, Those like states where you just end up being like an outer body experience. Those are so far and few between and rare and difficult to achieve that. If you require that for success, you're just not going to be successful.
Yeah.
You can't pull that off every day.
And I think that people, you know, they. They do their mindset stuff to try and get into that state and it's like you're not going to happen. It's just every now and then it happens.
Yeah.
So the fix is technical skills.
Technical skills. If you can fall back on that.
Yeah.
You're fucking. Like I've always said, like my fucking wife could leave me at stomach to sell. Like, I'd be super sad. But like that. I don't know why. I don't understand how that would affect me in saying the words. Maybe I break down and cry in the middle of it because I'm miserable. Right. But I'm not a.
Terrible.
What color is your Bugatti?
Right.
No, but like, you know, obviously, you know, give me a couple days.
Right.
But like, I just don't know why that would affect it.
Yeah, but. But again, it like it. I'm just gonna keep offsetting this.
Is that.
That would be a horrific and impactful part of your life. But it doesn't change anything.
You have give me a good angle.
Oh, man, you'd be so angry though.
You.
You'd talk about your dark motivator.
But let me tell you what just happened to me, boy.
But it's not going to change your technical skill set.
Yeah.
And. And we are carrying on about people who are trying combine technical skills with mindset or more accurately use their lack of technical skill set.
That's the big one.
Yeah.
And then blame mindset because you actually had no idea what you fucking doing.
Yeah.
And I'll just say, well, you didn't have the right mindset and. Because mindset is kind of individual and it's not tangible in any way, shape or form.
Yeah.
Then I can say, because you didn't.
Do well, the ultimate trump card.
It isn't the lack of technical skill set, which I didn't educate you in. It's your problematic mindset. And I can just beat that down your throat for. For ever and tell you that you're the problem.
Yeah.
Not that, like, there's things you can learn that will fix this.
People who did well that it was because their mindset.
Yeah.
And then they come out and they spru. I have a good mindset. And that's. It's like. But if you have an amazing mindset, let's just say that that was a thing. And no technical skill. Like, where is that going to go?
Yeah.
But if you have tremendous technical skill and a horrible mindset, like, wouldn't you be better off?
Yeah, probably.
Yeah. Like if you're. If you're 6 foot 9 and can jump 50 inches, like, you're in a better spot to be in the NBA than if you're 5 foot 3 and can shoot the lights down.
Yeah.
You're just in a better spot.
Yeah.
Highly likely.
Yeah.
Anyway, well, that's mindset.
Yeah. No, you really. I'll put some links to some good mindset coaches down below. But if you do want to learn some tangible skills.
Yes.
Then closing code.
Yep.
That's the place to get them.
$50 a week. Six role plays where we teach you the tangible, actionable skills in order to get a better mindset for 2023.
But it is worth getting your house in order. But don't think that's going to carry you through what really should be technical skills.
No. Whenever you feel like you need to do something hard, just ask, what color is your Bugatti? That's such a niche joke and that everyone's heard.
Yeah.
Because that man is everywhere.
He is everywhere. Yeah.
I wonder if we can get him on here.
I mean, probably.
Be fun.
It would be very fun.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
That's it. We should try.
Goodbye.
Put that coffee down.
Sam.
