Need to Scale Your Sales Business Quickly? Here's a Blueprint for Success!
Matt Ryder and others discuss scaling a sales business fast, covering team management, company culture, and leadership. They share personal experiences and practical strategies for growing sales-focused companies.
All right, guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Coffees for Closers. A little bit weird one today we were just having a chat and we decided to do a live podcast. James is in the States. This is lovely. Cameron, say hello, Cameron.
Yo, what's up, guys?
Yeah.
And Marco is in the house. So what are we talking about? We're talking about issues with scaling businesses, sales teams, all that kind of stuff.
If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode. You listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and review.
Put that coffee down.
You're talking about how we scale and why wasn't that scary to grow anyway? Because he was, I think. What did he save you for?
Talking about like communication as you grow, growing a business and then also just like managing so many, managing sales, but also just how difficult like getting that sales growth can be for a company as well. So like actually managing the process of the growth. And you were saying that like with you guys, like the communication between the sales team, how like that's strong. Which we got the type of culture, like level one, level two, level three cultures as well.
Yeah.
I think like the reason why, I've always said why I don't think it's that hard to scope is just because of the, the type of business that we have. So like we don't have to have. I think coaching businesses are super easy to scale. So I think anyone who can't scale a coaching business in terms of they get the marketing and the sales piece right. Like the logistics of the business are so incredibly easy. It's such a simple model. Margins are super high. You have great verticals, you have upsells, cross sales, down sales. Like I do not get the guys who are like grinding out at 50k a month for 5 years. It's like just you problem solve better. Like your offers are not right. Your marketing's not, like you're not find something to fix it. But if you get the sales and the marketing piece right, like it's honestly like it's the simplest model there is.
Yeah.
It's not infinitely scalable at all.
Not at all.
Like you have a cap, I reckon the average, I think it's like 1.2amonth or a million dollars a month for like a coaching business is where a lot of them are going to cap out. And the reason is you can go harder. But I don't think most coaches are willing to do what it takes to then infrastructure up to where. And then, like, you take your margin so much by doing it that you end up like Tony Robbins, which is. I mean, obviously not, but you end up, like, gigantic, but with very little margin. So you're probably making the same money as what you were with one third the revenue.
Yeah.
So I can see why a lot of people don't want to do it.
Yeah.
Just depends how. One thing that me is when coaches are like, I want to be bigger than Tony Robbins. And then like. But I don't want to go lower than.
They shouldn't say that. Really real.
Yeah, but it's also like, but then I don't want to go below a 60% net. And it's like, well, champ, like, I hate to break it. I hate to break it to you. I've had that conversation with, like, four of our clients. I was like, well, it's not going to happen.
Me. Yeah.
Like, because you don't have any balls the way you grow a business. Like, but, like, it's fine to not want that. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Just don't say you want it and then do absolutely nothing.
Right.
And then act in a totally different manner, you know?
Yeah.
Like, I think you look at, like, Taki, It's a perfect example of, like, a dude who knows what he wants and he's taken a business to a level. He could definitely go bigger. I think for sure he could go bigger. Like, especially with how good his name is and stuff like that, and the fact that he systemized it to within an inch of its life and he has almost nothing to do with it. But he's just super happy. He's just super happy making a ton of money. He probably makes $200,000 a month.
Do you think personal money, your ambition is bigger? Like, you guys. The what you guys are trying to grow?
Yeah. Yeah.
It's way bigger than the typical.
I'll be bigger than Cardone.
I don't know how. I don't know how.
Different conversation.
Right.
Sometimes I think about it, I don't know how we go all together because we all so similar that we going. Yeah, that's what I was telling before the girlfriend. Like, man, like, if I stay the same for more than 30 days, I'm gonna start questioning myself.
Right.
Real hard.
That's not normal, though. Right. So, like, the level of, like, ambition and scale of like perspective. Like if you say what you just said, right, like we're gonna grant it. Like the thing is, is that when you hear that that's congruent. Like it's actually something that's a genuinely planned goals, intention. Right. So with you guys, that level of intensity around that growth is a lot different.
Right.
Like the speed at which you want to do it, the aggressiveness at which you want to do it, like probably the mentality that's there is actually required for that level of growth.
Which yeah, for sure.
You have to have kind of ballsy decisions to make that.
Bro, we spend a ton of money. Yeah, we spend a crazy amount of money.
I'm lucky that like we got some magnets to turn up about business on what it needs to happen for backup action. There is true equation. It's like when you. When we were around the. Was 12,300k a month. Do we sign up that big client. We had 300 leads a week.
Yeah, it was around 350 we were at. Yeah.
When we signed up their client I had the kind of moment, I remember it was around Christmas and they were, they were going in holiday and I was like, this is the next six months. I gotta back up the action. Like I gotta start going really, really in because otherwise it will never grow as I think we should. So that is like a responsibility. It's like. Well, I don't know how it's going to look like, but I either going to study like a med, work 14 hours a day, make it up until we get to now, which is like, honestly like I will wrap it up in 40 hours. I work 70 to 80 because I love it.
Sure.
Because I live out of it.
Yeah.
But I will do my 40, 50 hours and get out of there.
Out of what?
Out of the account?
Out of the business.
Out of the entire business. Like I would help, help do stuff in 40 hours and get out of it.
I think the good thing about what we managed to do though is like although everybody does a lot of hours, I don't think anyone. I think anyone can take a holiday.
Right.
I think with, with a bit of notice. I think anyone can take a holiday.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Because I think like your responsibilities, although they're vast, we could hand them off to a few people for like a month and everything would be okay. For sure. Because everything is systemized and ClickUp and what you do in your diary and everything's been kind of planned out. So like technically like it is probably take two to three people to be honest. To like replace, replace like when you go to your next echelon. So like at the end of next year when we've hit the goals and then you need to go on to your next thing, it's going to be like, okay, well we need to start in six months time putting people in, which is one of the reasons why we got Jimmy's. It's like let's take over the all the marketing responsibilities that you have and then get Jimmy in and then he can handle all those responsibilities and we beat a team around that and then we can monetize that team as well through like additional revenue which then mitigates the expenditure of their coming on but then also finances the growth of allowing the next thing, you know, for, for you.
Matt, that's a question I wanted to ask you. When did you know that we were getting at least close to where we are now? Is there a moment during the path from like last year? Because pretty much from last November when we grew started going live.
I'll show you the spreadsheet. We hit our goals to within 30,000amonth of the exact plan that I laid out for 2021. Within about 30k. We're actually, we're actually a month ahead of schedule.
So it's that kind of like level of planning. My observation has been that's not present in the vast majority of business owners.
Right.
Like especially if you talk coaching industry, you're going to have people that are running on one month to month or two months of thinking out.
Yeah, most part.
And a lot of hopes rather than stuff. So like for you, do you notice that when you're starting to help people grow, like when you come in the age noticing that you have to come in and put that way of thinking in to try?
Yeah, we do so with the guys that we take equity and I do that with everybody. So I have a meeting with all the business owners and then we go over like I go, I want to try and figure out where they want to go and then like realistically like what are they willing to do to get there? Because I'll go like I want to take a dollar out for three or four months. It's fine. Like I'm happy with that. Like I'll even lend the business money except for the comms. I'll just take the comms but I won't take like an, like an owner's share or anything like that. We'll just keep reinvesting as long as they're willing to do the same. But then I always Set up like how much money you need to live. And then we set them up on a wage and all that kind of stuff. Stuff to make sure that they're all safe so they're not in that like fight or flight mode. They're not making decisions. But then it's like, okay, cool, well this is how business works. And then I kind of sit down and explain. Like, I spent an hour and a half with Tony the other day going like, this is how your business is going to look over the next 12 months if we hit these goals. And this is what decisions are going to have to be made. And this is the kind of what the curves are going to look like and the revenue and the dips and the ups and like all the. There's like all these black holes at different growth points, you know what I mean? Where a lot of businesses kind of get sucked in. They get stuck there like that. But if you know where they are and you can like pre plan around them and stuff like that, you know, so. Which is one thing that we, we did really, really well. Me and James sat down at the beginning, at the end of last year and we planned out like every month based on growth targets. And then we sat down and we were like, okay, well what do we need in order? Like if I, what I always do is I go, okay, if I picture myself at like 5 million a month and I go, okay, like what, what do. What does the mat at 5 million a month know? That I don't know right now. And then that's like, that's like the development pathway that I take. So like I start talking dudes like, it's not business coaching because you can't get business coaching for like this. You have to like go to people who are really good at individual things and just start picking their brain. And it's not like books or anything. You just have to talk to people.
We have to pull the skill for the problem.
Right? Yeah.
It's like you got. Are going to have Matt at 5 million a month or Marco at 10 million a month. Whatever it is, you've got to have like a particular skill set that you'd be there. Like you're working on marketing right now, right? Like copy, driving copy.
Yeah.
Like if I look at Bradley and I go like, what's Brad Lee really good at?
Yeah.
And I'm like, that's super interesting. Like we had a chat with Brad the other day and what's he really.
Good at that you're not good at?
Yeah, he's just Brilliant marketer man.
Yeah.
Like he's, he has figured out his branding and he's been doing it for one, he's got time. So you can't get frustrated when time is a factor and time is always a factor. So you just need more time and that's like. Yeah, it's cool. It's the reason why we do YouTube videos.
Compound interest on marketing. When you have money is a lot of exposure, right?
Exactly. Like we've never.
When you start acting out of your character, that's where things go sideways. That's.
What do you mean by that?
Yeah.
People start doing content they think people want to see instead of the content.
They want who they are.
Yeah.
Like we do in content.
Why was that something that came to your mind so quickly?
Because like if I think about brand that at some point when in club direction, when you understand like what these guys doing, right. Like the sales guy, the sales coach and up there now all of a sudden becomes like crypto investor coach. All those days, like stay there, you know, like it gets odd.
Because they change lanes or because they're just trying to be something that they're not, you mean?
No, because I think at some point that's what Matt was saying. You lose a lot of profit that you arrive at half a million per month. I think that's a mark when you make the decision which is that hey, we're either going to be like this and always go the middle sized company and be fine with that or with a crash profit, sure. You're going to get a ton of like offices and stuff and you invest, will get bigger. And that's not easy. No, it's not easy to go and get less money, put more work for the long run.
It's a lot of. It's a very different vision.
Right.
And then you have immense amount of stress. Like the level of stress and like that comes with trying to find the right people, keep the right culture.
I don't know though.
Well, you're never really stressed.
That's what I realized with us, especially with knowing you inside, outside work is this hiring people is like retargeting and marketing. If you direct the ads, the first into a good, good environment, a good culture, you retarget at the back of that.
So you can, you can tell what we want, you can tell what we're looking for by the content we put out.
Right.
So what have I been doing for the last few weeks? Big deals.
Yeah. Right.
Now who does that interest? It's not the business owners.
Yeah, yeah.
It's the sales guys. Yeah, the sales guys constantly message me and they go, what the. Who you selling? Yeah, come find out.
Of course.
Yeah.
Like that. And so like I want the best sales guys. The best sales guys want to close the biggest deals. So all I have to do is show all the big deals that we're closing and then if I want to get accounts, all I have to do is show the rouses.
Yeah.
That's like step one.
Then you.
Then as the owner, you have to create the pathway for that.
Right.
And that's what makes culture hard because you have to win at a level which is big enough to support.
Culture's only hard if the person the front of it is selfish.
Correct.
That's.
That's.
Or simply not capable enough of doing the big stuff. Right. Because you can have a leader that thinks they can, but they may not be able.
Yeah, I think, I think. Well, I think that yes and no because, like, I'm not capable of doing the things that Marco does. I'm also not capable of doing what Will does. I'm certainly not capable of doing what Ben does.
Yeah.
Is so outside of my wheelhouse. That's why I hired him.
Right.
What does Bean do?
He's the operations manager. He's the nitty gritty admin. Like. Like he. When he. We brought him on, he's one of my best friends. He's a kid, wife is pregnant, coming from a really, really good position in military on very good money. And I said, I'll make sure you're safe. And I identified him and I started grooming him for that position about nine months before I knew I could afford it at that. And then as soon as I got to a chance where I knew I could go, I'll make sure your family's safe. Then I was like, you have to come work for me and offer him a package that he couldn't refer. Confused the unit, man. The unit.
Yeah.
And so like that was a big deal for him and everyone like that to. To obviously go away from something he's been for doing for, you know, 15, 20 years and in a really highly. A good, really well paid position to come over and work for like a borderline startup, you know, run by his friend.
Yeah. You know, so your culture, it seems like, because what you were just saying before is the same as what you were saying around like you guys seem to get each other like this kind of like level four and like. Yeah, well, like, because you guys really kind of have your respect and Lane we went yesterday.
I was Shopping and today we're working. Like I couldn't do, like I wouldn't do that with a lot of people.
Right.
You hate me.
It dinner in my house last night.
Yes.
Right.
Like, like for example, for me, prior to coming, I was like, no, work is working. This is the first kind of mix that I get. She's like, I'm super grateful for you. This life changing.
It's very different.
I tried to replicate very different having.
When you don't want to create that separation. That's the biggest thing I see in like corporations. Right. Where you see like people have a work Persona and a personal Persona. Like for me, I hate that I find that violent. It's like, it just makes me sick. What do you mean? You have a separate thing.
But you.
Because you feel like that when you are in the work, outside work Persona, you people don't accept who you are.
Correct.
So you gotta come up with something different for me.
You and James, we have a whole different relationship again.
Yeah.
Me like, I'm the big brother and James and Marco, my little brothers.
Yeah.
Like that's the relationship. We buy each other like fifteen thousand dollar Christmas gifts.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, it's not because. It's not because we. It's not because we have the money to do so. But like it would be proportional. It's just, you know, like I know what Marco's getting for Christmas and.
Yeah.
You know, I know you guys have done something big for me. I just don't know what it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I know it was like 50 grand.
So if I can think of it.
That'S so it's just, it's about that call though, right? Like, that's different. But I think, I think a lot of business owners, they would. They maybe want to create that, but it's different to do it.
I was just thinking, I still got told, never hire your friends, never hire your family. I just hired my auntie, I hired my dad. Ben's one of my best friends of all time. I hired Tori as a, as our financial controller. Right. Who's my. Who's my daughter's godmother. Right, Right. My wife's my wife's best friend. Yeah. His girlfriend's my assistant.
And always tell me don't when I work with your girlfriend. But how. We had the best time.
Right.
She. Because she never complains about. I swear. Of course she does a bunch of stuff, but she always complained about work. Always, always. I work. She never complained about nothing. Zero. The idea is this, I think is like From. I was the second sales guy that he had. Yeah, Overall I think, I think it was the second.
Yeah, Jimmy was the first.
Jimmy was the first.
Still here.
And he's still here.
Right.
When Covid hit I knew that he would have been struggling because it was fitness based.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, I'll give Jimmy a call. He's probably struggling. And then he gave me a call and he told me everything that happened. I was like, oh, I already know all that, man. Yeah, it's all good, dude. You're a good guy. Like it's. Yeah, it's fine. Don't even worry about it.
Yeah.
So he came on and he's been our head sales trainer. The guy who does all the core reviews.
Yeah, yeah.
He's been our head. Head sales trainer for like two years now and awesome dude. And he's like living in like combination of Cyprus and the in the UK and he's going to live his dream. We helped him out with some charity stuff that he was doing. Helped him out with this book that he wanted to do. He's a great dude.
So this is a couple of things you just said that was important.
Right.
Because that's the stuff that creates relationship culture. That's actually there's a human.
I've never seen someone be able to attract so unique human beings than him. Never since. And I work with a lot to.
Put them all in one place together.
I work in different countries and collect stones like Thanos. Yeah. It's crazy. It's like. I think it's because also from the sales alum.
I know what leverage to pull. But I like people.
Yeah.
You've been on sales for with me.
Yeah.
So you understand how I am and how I am here, right?
Yeah.
It's like when we talk about sales. I still being on sales for you.
Yeah.
That means like that I do what I say I do.
Yeah.
And people appreciate that.
Yeah.
Because a lot of sales trainer or a lot of sales people, they talk about you should be making a million dollars in commissions. Like have you.
Right. Yeah.
Have you really made that money or do you really make money?
Yeah.
In selling. So I think people know. I really hope that they know that like we sales people. I can't put a sales quarter. Probably shouldn't have to this week. Last week I took five sales because I wanted to.
Sure.
Right.
So people like that because they call. Those are real people. They do the stuff that they say. So.
Yeah, I think as well congruence.
Right.
That's really important.
But I think as well. I think the reason why we managed to do it is because there's just a giant vacuum in the market of like. Like, sales teams are just like. They're. They're traded as commodities, you know, because we wanted to get into recruitment and like, we set it all up, spent the money, whole thing treated as commodities. Did it, like. Did it maybe place six people and went, oh, no, we're done.
No. Great.
Like that. Because there were a couple of, like, often with.
They were just getting treated like, well, no, there.
Well, there was. That. There were a few ethical. We actually had the big discussion. I was like. We had a big round table. And I was like, okay, anyone can answer me these questions, then we'll keep doing it.
Yeah.
If. If you find a really good sales guy, will we keep them or will we give them?
Right.
Oh, like, we keep them. And I was like, then all we're doing is placing the B team.
Right.
I was like, do we. Do we do anything that isn't good? No. Sweet. Then we can't really back our name against anybody because anyone who's really good, I'll find an account. Cause I'll make money off them. Yeah.
Yeah. Right.
It's done.
Yeah.
We had to wrap it up. I was like, I just. I can't deconflict that.
Giving people that.
Yeah, I can't deconflict. And then also, it's a show of a business model. I don't know how cool does it, but. Because you can get placed and then like, the leads can themselves. Yeah, the guy can leave. Fair enough.
He will leave.
Yeah, he will. Right?
Yeah.
And then, like, if the guy doesn't perform. So you end up in the middle.
Yeah.
And very rarely is that circumstance going to work out quickly. So it's like, is that being a real. It's a really tough model.
It's tough because you coordinated two parties and after you pretty much you have.
No control over either put them together.
But it's like you don't have it. You don't have it in both sides.
It makes what cold does even actually really impressive to me.
Yeah.
I don't know how he's managed to do it.
Yeah.
Like, whether it's. I mean, obviously it's successful, but whether it's effective or not, I don't know. I assume that it is because of the way that it's gone. You know what I mean? Like, I can't use the stuff that I hear because the only people that I ever speak to are people that it hasn't worked out. And in the same vice versa. The only people that he would speak to that had anything to do with me, I've either fired them or it just hasn't worked out right. So it's like you can't take any of that stuff yet. Take it with a grain of salt. But yeah, like it's an impressive. It's a difficult business model.
Good name. I gotta be honest because like it takes, it takes a lot for understanding the true part.
Yeah, it's really difficult. Yeah. Like I don't think that. Yeah. Going back to the coach thing, I don't. I think like as long as the person at the top is just. I think they have to. If they have everyone's best interest at heart. I don't think you can go too wrong, you know. But I think people want to like I remember like people want to. One of our guys wants to buy in and his brother in law is like an M, A lawyer. And he's like, oh, this is. This doesn't make any sense, this deal. This isn't this. Now he's in America and it's an Australian company. So that lawyer doesn't understand our structures at all. So it's like half of the questions are like it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Like none of those things exist in this country.
Yeah.
Because their corporate structures are so much more, so much more comprehensive and different. They're text. You know what I mean? Whereas here it's like it's a company.
Yay. Yeah. Right.
That's pretty much it.
Yeah.
You buy shares. There you go. You buy percent. There you go. It cost this much money.
Yeah.
Go for it. Right now you. 100. Yay.
Yeah.
And the shareholders agreement is where all the nitty gritty is taking, taking care of essentially. Right.
Yeah.
But yeah, you know, but he was like, well like that M. And a lawyer just wouldn't believe anything I had to say.
Right.
It's like, no, I just want everyone to do really well.
Yeah.
I can keep it all for myself. But yeah, it's like I just want people to do well. Like so people.
He doesn't see that normally we're used to buying and stripping.
Yeah. Like I don't need the money personally. I don't need the money in the business. If this is what keeps this person super happy and keeps them biden for a long term, I can't do it for free because it's not fair to everybody else. This is the market rate that I see as fair. If you want to do it, great. If not, it's cool too, like. But I just want everyone to succeed in the way that they need to succeed and this is what helps the person do that. Then I'm willing to facilitate it. But, but I think if everyone knows like everything, everyone knows the decisions that I make and that me and James make together. I think they know that everyone's best interest is at heart. And I think that level of transparency, the thing that really frustrated me in the military was the lack of transparency and the compartmentalization. Now it was necessary for the roles that I was in. But, like, they could have done a lot better job when handing down decisions that affected the lower and the mid tier people. Like, it actually affected their day to day in peeking behind the curtain to the degree in which they could. To where, like they not justify, but explain to, to make the lens of the small of the lower people a bit wider.
Yeah.
And then they could go, okay, I don't like it, but I understand.
This is why we're doing it. This seems like one of one to me. This is a basic thing that you would obviously do.
Yeah.
But no one does it, man.
Really? Yeah.
Not many people. Like, like every two weeks we have a. A team training and on that team training we do admin house and that kind of stuff. And then I'll go, okay, like, this is what's happening. This is the decisions that we're making.
Yeah.
These are why we're making it.
Yeah.
And although like, you might not understand, if you need clarification on it, then just talk to your direct hierarchy. They'll fill you in. I go, there's nothing top secret. We don't live. There's nothing top secret that everyone can't know what's going on. So if you have questions like, because we might shut down an account.
Yeah, yeah.
And they'll have no idea. And it's like, well, this wasn't taken lightly. And these are all elite mitigating factors of why we did it. And. But if we do shut down an account, we will redo all the manning structures, like in advance so that we can immediately replace someone's income.
Right.
So we have that structure in place. And then also we. We tell them why it was all happening. Try and give them like a behind the curtain. Because I think if people don't understand decisions, they start doing the whole thing, which is like, oh, it's so easy. All they should have to do is this.
Right.
You know?
What do you mean by that?
Well, like in, like in the military. So when you have like a big corporate Bureaucracy. You end up with like the lowest level people thinking the hierarchy of morons. Because the decisions don't make sense to them. Yeah. But also like the decisions don't make sense to them because they're looking at things through this.
Right.
And they're going like, oh, this is what I see. And this is the easiest result. The hierarchy is looking at everything and going like, well, given the totality of the evidence, I have to make this decision which might around this person, this person, this person. And then you get the grumblings from these three people gone. Oh, these. It's so easy. All they have to do is this.
Right.
And so like you need that is like culture cancer. So you need to mitigate that from day one by having like a super transparent like top end structure where like everyone sort of can have access to as much information as they need. You know, I'm not going to give out the P. Ls of the business, but I will usually give a state of like where we're at.
So have you noticed that as well, like people feel like they really understand what's going on.
Yeah.
And that like there's a sense that people understand where things are going, why they're making it. And that creates like a culture of openness.
Yeah. Because the decision they always made is in base of can they make make money on that account?
Yeah.
That was our first child. Remember you told me that. It's like, yeah, it's not about are we making money? Like can that person be successful in that environment?
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
So now they kind of understood that we're making decision because like, hey man, looking into your eye, you can't make money there. So you just gotta get out of it. So that created like that if I want to shut down an account tomorrow, I wouldn't do it. I don't have to give an inspiration to nobody because they know that I do it for a criteria. The idea is like, can they shine into that? So they trust us to make a decision. We've done a retreat no longer. It was like two weeks ago.
Right.
The buying from people, what we do and decision we make with them is like crazy.
Yeah.
They know that we work in the background. They call those guys don't want to give us put us in the best position.
Sure.
Because we've been sales. Right. So we know like count this crap doesn't have leads. So we got to go and fix the lead. That's how I'm going to marketing is like, okay, what are we gonna do? Yeah, let's Pick up the pieces.
Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Let's try to make it happen.
Yeah.
So that's, that's, that's why they know that they know that we're trying to make the best out.
Yeah. So yeah.
100. That's where that vacuum is that I was talking about. Like there's just a vacuum. Well, just with the people being treated as a commodity.
Yeah.
Like, because the, the sales people are like the vagrant, vagrant homeless people of the business world that are like. But they are like the engine.
They're literally the engine. I mean they really are. This is, this is the thing, I think that you understand that they, that I think most people, a lot of people just don't understand. If you do that well, everything else works 10 times better.
Even if you have marketing, if you.
Have a rock can transform and save and keep a business going.
Right.
You look at that, you know, example of Jeremy.
Right.
So when Jeremy was, I don't know what businesses selling for, but he was doing like a few million dollars a year commission and he had the biggest office and all that kind of stuff.
Right.
It's a bigger office than the CEO is making more money than the founder.
Yeah.
Like he was killing it. And 50 of his leads were self generated.
Yeah.
So 25 cold calling, 25 referral. 50% Royal N3 million. So 1.5 million was called. Was just leads. But he still kept going. Right. And then they shrank. They realized how heavily leveraged they were against him, which is a really scary thing to have. They should have just equity. Honestly, that's what I've done. But of course, like what they did is they tried to mitigate their risk by like lowering the areas in which you could sell. So he quit that day, joined the competitor and bankrupted the company.
How obvious is that move though? You're like, oh my God, we've got a jackpot. This guy's a complete freak of nature. Like, yeah, we're lucky as like we're the luckiest people on earth. Here's the equity.
That's what you think because you are in the field of yourselves now. If someone is above you and it does marketing.
Yeah.
He thinks it's their marketing leads.
Yeah.
I guess the way I look at it is as people though, because I think at the end of the day, your biggest asset is extraordinary people. And like, so they did research recently with like coders and they got, they got coders in a room and they wanted to see the difference between great coders and average coders.
