"Possibly the BEST hour of sales content on the Internet" - me

If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode you listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and review. Put that coffee down. Welcome to the the episode of Coffees for Quizzes. Today we have myself and James and the fabulous Vanessa Horne. Thanks for coming today, Vanessa.

Thank you so much. Excited to be here.

Yeah. So I wanted. I wanted to get Vanessa on because she's an established closer, sales lady, boss lady, all that kind of stuff, and has some awesome accounts and does some cool stuff over in the US So really wanted to connect because she's helped me with a few things. So I wanted to get her on and see how she can. She can help everybody else. So thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. And give us the rundown of who Vanessa Horne is.

Well, I have. My approach to sales is that it's a connection and what I call the classy close. And I believe in sales is such an empowerment resource that we can have because we're always selling. We're always selling. Truthfully, I just talked to somebody who needed to get a role in a job, and I basically supported them in establishing and getting that role. And I'm like, you're selling yourself. Even though you don't own your own business, you just sold yourself. Right. And so I think it's such a powerful tool. And as a matter of fact, when I was in college, one of my mentors, he's Australian, a guy named Peter Daniels, he came and spoke at my university. And I approached him, I was like, in my senior year of undergrad, and I said, if you had any advice for me about which direction I should go with my career, what do you recommend? And he said, go into sales. And I said, sales? Really? Like, in my head, I thought sales. I thought, like, car sales, like, pushy sales.

And I got so many negative connotations attached to it.

I know. And he said, well, here's. Here's the thing. It's applicable to any industry. It's a skill set that's transferable. But in my head, I said, I don't want to be one of those people. What did I do instead? I went. I had studied organizational, interpersonal communications, basically anything around the study of people. I love. I love understanding what makes people tick, what makes them wired the way that they do. And then I Winded up getting my mba, went into this whole route in corporate finance. And it wasn't until I had my first. I was pregnant with my first son. This was 16 years ago that I was like, I cannot stay in my corporate career. This is not going to give me the time, freedom that I need. And what I did was my first thing that I invested in was a franchise. And believe it or not, it was a fitness franchise. I remember going down to training for the franchise owners and it was in Texas. And I saw this petite woman walk up onto the stage and do the sales training. And I swear this was the best thing I got out of my $50,000 investment in that franchise was I saw this woman get up there and like, in the most elegant, classy, non pushy way, demonstrate how you would close somebody into joining a gym. And I watched that and I was like, oh my God, what did she just do? That was like so effortless. And I said, I can do that. And we took it back to our gym and implemented it to the T and it ended up being our franchise. Ended up being the number one producing franchise out of 10,000 because of how fast we were growing of implementing this system.

Sales is the most important thing. Like, if your front end isn't right, there's no point doing anything else in your business. Especially with gyms, as, you know, like I stone gyms as well. The difference between gyms that are successful and gyms that are not is simply sales and marketing. That's it. Nothing else.

Like, very important.

Also, what was that?

Location.

Yeah, location's a big one. Yeah. But yeah, sales and marketing, your ability just to get people in and sign them and then because if you sign them the right way, they stay for a while, you know.

Yeah.

Also if you don't have that front end, there is zero point even bothering to set up a backend because there's no one coming in to utilize.

Exactly.

Well, and the thing is, it's like when years later, I ended up going through a couple different industries, applying my sales knowledge. But it was about 11 years ago that I went into this industry of online marketing and coaching consulting. And I had basically been investing over six figures and making my business work. And I remember the first time I put up a campaign, I was reflecting on this with somebody recently who's like, oh, that's just what I need to do. Where I set up this campaign with a mentor's help. I had at this point drained through the savings of the business that I had sold and with on my last 0% credit card had invested 15%, I mean $15,000 into a done for you funnel. And it was going to drive calls to me to sell my own stuff back then. And I, I remember that that week that I got leads on my calendar, I had nine calls and I closed eight out of nine and I made my first $30,000 online. And. But I think back, if I didn't, if I hadn't nailed the sales and gotten eight out of nine calls, and let's just say if I hadn't put the energy into learning sales and I had only closed one out of nine calls, that would have been a failed launch.

Absolutely. Regardless of the fact that you got leads, you got quality calls booked, it doesn't matter if you didn't get sales. It's all, it's all for not. Yeah.

Yep.

All right. And like, I suppose, like I always tell people that and I put up, put up a post up on Facebook yesterday. Today's the 8th of May, as we're filming this, that like you need some sort of grounding in sales before you go on to do the high ticket stuff, right? So, like, what do you feel was your real grounding that kind of gave you the ability to transition to selling 30,000 bucks in a day? Like, what do you think was that sort of key element, that sort of step by step that kind of gave you what it is you needed to be able to be that consistent?

Well, in this particular industry, just in.

General, because like, obviously there's all these courses now, right, how you can go out and just kind of like, you know, get two, $3,000 commission per sale. And definitely people can do that because those courses are good. But a lot of people don't have any experience in dialing leads, you know what I mean? Or cold calling or door knocking or some sort of like more volume based. Because really what gets you good, in my opinion is practice. Like, you have to have shitloads of conversations. And so like I had a conversation with a guy yesterday and he's like, what should I do? I really want to get into closing. I've done this course and this course and I was like, well, first of all, like, stop doing courses. I was like, you probably know enough now to apply somewhat. And now it's just going to be either coaching, which is like call recordings, like what you do, you know, I mean, and, and, or like, you know, really just kind of listening to your own stuff and getting better. But like, you need volume, so find some. Stop trying to find someone who's selling a 10, 20 or $30,000 product. Find someone who's selling a $2,000 product and can get you 50 calls a week.

Like, well, I'll tell you what, when I first came, because it was I applied that gym free framework to sell in the gym environment. Then I ended up moving into the network marketing industry and I created the same kind of framework in that industry. And while my peers were selling thousand dollar packages, I taught my team how to sell $6,000 packages. So we ended up like building a $2.2 million business in just over a year. And I took that to this industry. But when I first started out, somebody taught me a methodology for selling, for selling in this particular industry that was basically serve your heart out in a coaching sessions. And I did that for 18 months. I actually did 280 hours of selling, I mean, of sessions with that methodology for my first 18 months in this industry. And guess what? I didn't create a single client. Like, I was devastated. My financial advisor was like, maybe you just need to call it quits. So here is me, Vanessa, with all this sales experience. But what I did was I made tweaks and I was like, you know what, I'm going to follow a different framework, I'm going to change it up. And I think that there's some real skill sets. Like my philosophy is sales is learnable because I went from 18 months 100% to not knowing and not being successful in it to create following a particular framework that worked really well. Now I've perfected that over time, but that's how I got those eight out of nine sales. And when my, my belief is that if you can sell something where people have access to funds very easily, which I typically find less than 10,000, but definitely like six and under because they have access to credit cards, they don't typically have to move retirement funds to pay for something. It's extra easy like pay in full on a credit card. Those, that was where I got my. Like those were $3,600 packages I sold to start and anything in the range of where people have easy access to the money. Because unfortunately what a lot of salespeople do is they make, they sell with their own wallet in mind or their own buying patterns in mind or a hundred percent. If it's like, well, I spent, I mean I had spent $40,000 on my first coach, so I really had additional confidence selling higher end packages pretty quickly after that. And when I've trained salespeople on my team, when they're like oh my God, that's so much money. And I'm like, okay, wait, that will get in your way if you never invested that yourself. I, but I get them to see in context of what are they getting. For instance, in the online space, most of you know, there's a lot of people selling business coaching, let's just say, right? And they say you can learn how to build a six figure, seven figure whatever based business. And I compare that to the fact that I have a friend who went to medical school. He's now making quarter of a million dollars, right? Between quarter of a million to $400,000 a year. What you know, high end closers want to be making for sure. And guess what? It took him six years of medical school, I mean 10 years of medical school and residency and he's $400,000 in debt right now when he's making that really good money, where meanwhile myself making in excess of that. I, yes, I had to invest heavily, but not $400,000. Not much time. Yeah, not that much time. And so I think that it's, it's the context for what are you selling and what's the price point? What's the value that the person gets for that? And when you can compare, okay, I'm selling a $30,000 package, but they're going to learn a business model that's going to bring them in millions of dollars over the, potentially over the course of their business. It's that belief, and you're right, it's the reps getting in the reps getting in the reps getting in the reps where you can put yourself in a scenario where you have somebody who has a consistent flow. I put in one of my salespeople to a person who got her lots of leads, but they weren't fantastically qualified leads. But I was so happy that she hung in there because now I got her up to 60% close rates. And pretty like once we got her in a different scenario, but she put in her reps in a situation where it was like, you know, a tough, tough sell.

And so what, like when you're, when you're working with your employee, like what are the things that you were sort of working with her on to get her up to that 60% close rate? Like what are the sort of, what's the first thing that you're really trying to nail down when it comes to getting someone from closing it? Like say 30%, 25, 20 to 30% is what I kind of see usually for people who are relatively like new to the Industry, Right. And obviously depending on how the leads come to you, if someone's just booking an hour long sales call straight into your diary, you're probably not going to get up to say 60, 70% unless you're doing like a triage method or something like that. But you know, like what are the things that you're really kind of trying to focus on first?

So the things that I focus on, here's where I see salespeople get tripped up in the sales conversation. And I teach obviously a very specific methodology based on the classy client. But here's where I see the hot spots in a call. Most salespeople can be pretty good at building rapport. So let's call that like they're good in that area. But it's setting the frame for the call initially, taking a strong leadership role. It's the, I have all my salespeople and it doesn't matter who we're selling for. We create a model that represents their ip. So it's just our way of articulating and selling the process, the method, the, the system that's going to get the results and it just ensures, gets the prospect to trust that okay, they know they've got a whole process for getting a result here. So without, without exception, every single one of my clients, if they don't have one already, we create a model. The most simple one is basically a triangle model that says, okay, here's the top three pillars basically that helps get the result now. So that model articulation is super huge. Why? Because as they're asking the questions of the prospect and getting where those hot, those pain are, I teach my salespeople to match the pain to the model. Where will we address that on the model? So it's, it's basically I call it matchy Matchy. We're just like, here's the pain.

It's very technical. The matchy matchy system.

Yeah, it's matchy matchy, don't forget it. And here's the model and here's how we solve it. So you've got to have a direct correlation. Otherwise it just sounds like promises, promises, promote promises, which any salesperson can do. That's super crucial in the presentation of the offer, the transition to the stage of the call where you're doing the presentation of the offer. There's key questions that I teach my, my team to implement because it's like if they, if they don't do that well and get super caught up in this selling of logistics, they'll lose the sale so those are the hotspots that I pay attention to in a sales call. And then I teach that there is a whole emotional journey that you're taking that you are intentionally taking the prospect through. So, for instance, I will take them if I can tell, like, they're super in their head. I've got to get an emotional level.

To understand is this the prospect or the sales? Yeah.

So I teach my team how to do this, where it's like, okay, we've got to get to like digger to the dig to those deeper levels. Like, get them to the high. If I can tell, like, they've been low too long, there's a particular place in the call, we'll take them high. Like, why this? What's. Why is this your goal? Like, really get them in touch with the peak of it, but also getting them in touch with like, why is that important to you? Why not keep doing what you're doing?

Consequence questions. Yeah, yeah.

And so it's just. But I. There's a couple of those spots in the call where I drill it, drill it, drill it, drill it with my team. Because I know that that's where they most frequently get hung up for sure.

I think, you know, it's that whole Simon Sinek. Right. Like, what is the why? You know, and like, that's sort of. That's the biggest. If you can really find out someone's why in a call, your chances of selling it was doubled.

Like, if you can lose the sale if you don't present the offer. Right.

100%. Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, boom, they're ready to be closed. And then you fumble at the end.

Yeah, yeah. Because if you come across this nervous or salesy or you don't present your price with confidence, like, it just makes people think that you're. You just lose your authority. Like within. Within three or four words said the wrong way, it's all gone. Yeah, Yeah, I do that very. Jeremy. I'm good. I get coached by Jerry, you know Jeremy.

Which Jeremy?

Jeremy Miner.

Yeah.

Yeah. So he, he's coaching me one on one at the moment because. Because I wanted to learn some of his methods and yeah, like that his presentation phase is very different to what I've done. And I can see why it's so effective because it's like, you know, getting the small little commitments and then asking for permission and then routing everything back to problems. And then like it's a two minute phase of the whole process. Like, people think that. I think one of the big things is people get so caught up in features and benefits, and they're constantly interjecting their own solutions. If someone says they have a problem, oh, you know, I just really need to get more leads. Oh, that's perfect. Because we help you get more leads, like. And I hear that all the time. It's like, guys, you can't do that at the end. You know, you got. You have to do that, like, in the right place. You have to sort of allow them to come to that solution. Otherwise, like, you're just another guy at a car yard saying, look at me, I've got cars. Or doing the Grant Cardone, look at me, I've got fish. You know what I mean? I've got fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I've usually found, like, I've done so many calls. I mean, I have weeks where I do 55 calls. Like, I'm in the trenches doing this. That's hard day after day. And so I. I love playing with the little nuances of stuff in a call. But what I found is it. It's you. I find it about between 20 to 25 minutes. Like, I let them have that whole spaciousness, and I have, like, you know what I call C, L, A, S, S, Y, like, each letter of the classy closed stands or something. So in that ask phase, which is the A, I'm letting them go all the way to about 25 minutes into the call before I'm really transitioning to where I'm doing some of the talking. But what that allows is them to feel fully understood, and they've gone through their emotional journey as I've kind of asking them the proper questions. So then. And feeling fully understood and them basically giving me permission or me basically saying, like, hey, you've kind of met the criteria of what we're looking for. And transitioning is like, I know that they need all that spaciousness. If I go too soon, too fast, it's like, boom. I've created disconnection emotionally. And it can be done more quickly if your marketing is doing some of the closing for you as well. But I just. I'm intentional. If I have a full 45 minutes with somebody, that I'm letting them have that time where they're able to just talk and feel fully understood and seen.

Awesome. Awesome. And, like, so tell us a little about what you're doing closing at the moment. You don't have to say who for, but, like, what kind of packages are you closing and what type of offers are you closing?

Most of the packages I'm Selling personally are between 18 to $50,000 each. So that's my preference is staying in that range up to $100,000 packages. I love that mostly because if I'm going to get on the phone, I want the maximum commission that can be earned. So usually 6 smaller. I just feel like, hey, if I'm going to sell something, like just give it to me, I can sell it. The price point is irrelevant and I'm going to optimize what my earnings are for the time on the phone. Lower packages, if I'm going to be selling, let's say a 10k package, my commission on that's usually a higher rate to make it worthwhile the time.

So that's 10k is kind of a sweet spot because you can kind of get, you can get a few grand for that. You know, there's like a little sweet spot. It's not a very hard sell. You know, it's usually a one definite one call close. Sometimes when you're doing 50, 60, 70, $80,000 packages, there are so many logistical things that have to get worked out and cleared with boards or you know what I mean, move funds around. I can take 2, 3 calls to close that which like, if you actually do the numbers like you're probably better off just selling a, you know, a 10k package.

But my preference is not somebody who has to go to a board to get approval. Working with a business owner who has and you know them or their partners on the call and they'll have to go back to get approval is the easiest. And what I found is just taking an initial deposit and allowing the paid in full rate to be honored as long as they pay the balance within 30 days. So then it's still captured. I like a like the deal done sign, still deliver agreement first deposit, you know, first payment as a portion so that they then that gives them time to rearrange the monies to pay off the full balance.

Yeah, sweet. And then it's kind of like the business owner's problem. Once you've kind of ticked all the boxes, it's like, okay, now just get the money and deliver it. I really, really like that.

Classifying like the pool and giving them the option to, to close that out within 30 days so it doesn't take more messing around and following up. That's really, really good idea.

Yeah, excellent. And like how have you got like the offers that you're selling at the moment? Is it more business coaching? Is it like, like what kind of like what's the breadth of what you're doing right now.

The kind of offers I like to sell are tangibly measured outcomes. So.

Absolutely.

Business coaching, health or, like, weight loss kind of coaching that has core outcomes that are tied to it.

Those are ROI stuff. Like, dating stuff is hard. Like, it's. You know, it's such a different. You know, I had one.

Yeah.

I've had some weird offers come my way that I was just like, I still know. Like, that seems like it's just gonna be too difficult. Like, you can sell anything, but it's like, do you really want to? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

It has to be, like, as tangible, measurable as possible.

What's the easiest thing to sell? What do you think the easiest thing to sell is? I think it's sales training.

Really?

Yeah.

No, I think people value lead gen more.

Yeah, right. The reason why I like seeing isn't why I say that is because you can turn every objection into a learning moment. So that's how I sell it. And so when they give you an objection, all you have to do is talk to them about, like, okay, so what's your product? All right. Like, it's a 5K product. All right, cool. And how many times have you heard someone say, I need to go think about it. Probably like 50 times. I was like. And like, what would it be worth to you if you were able to overcome that? Okay, do you want me to teach you how to overcome it right now? Yeah. Okay. This is how you do it. And then you overcome their objection to them, and they want you to overcome it because then they have the keys to overcome, which means they don't get that objection in the future. And then, like, so they. They want you to overcome. It's why no one's ever said, no me, no matter what price I've quoted, I've quoted 10, 15 to 5. Like, it doesn't matter. Right. It makes no difference. They always go, yeah, sounds good.

I also have sold a lot for agencies, and I think that that's a pretty easy sell if they have a really concrete done for you.

Yeah, marketing is a good one if it's. If it's like, if they're rock solid. The problem. The problem. Hardest part with marketing is that there are so many charlatans, like, so many. So many guys who run an agency who are 21 years old in their mom's basement, and that's kind of the stigma that's behind it. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I guess, how have you find selling during the whole coronavirus and I guess during Just a time of, you know, dare I say it, enormous uncertainty. Like, how have you kind of found, I guess, selling to the demographics that you're selling to?

I think it's been exploding in this particular market. As a matter of fact, what I'm seeing is one, people are becoming awake to the fact that if they had not solved a particular problem before, coronavirus. It's like coronavirus is accentuating the need. Or in some cases, it's people coming to. Becoming awake to the fact that they were incongruent and there's something that they really had a passion about making a reality. And they're like, dang, I should have launched this six months ago or a year ago, and here I am in coronavirus, and I can't keep going down the path that I was going. And so, in a way, it's created an additional sense of urgency. So I found it, like, it's awesome. I think this is, like, an amazing time, especially for people who are selling solutions online or related to business. People needed it more than ever. I would even argue relationship coaching and health coaching. There's so many things, if I can tie it to the personal nature, I just find, like, those of us who are able to sell what we're selling now, we're so fortunate. This is what people are buying right now.

Yeah, I think, like, there's a couple of demographics, like, couple industries, like selling fitness, online fitness right now is really good. Anything you're coaching coaches. So, like, if you're a fitness business coach or a business coach to business coaches, or where you're teaching people to go online, or you're coaching people who can possibly take advantage. I've seen a couple people, you know, like, people that we know, like, people you know, with health services, like brick and mortar health services that are, like, those businesses are super struggling. And there's a couple other industries that I think have really been hit hard, like building industries. Anyone who's coaching builders, like, that seems to be a bit of a tough gig at the moment.

People who are coaching Solano owners whose salons are shut down, who are right now crushing it with their best months, who coach dance studios, who cannot even have students come in having their best months, people who coach gym owners, who have brick and mortar gyms, who are having their best month.

What is it that you think that they've done in their marketing that's allowed them to do that? Because, like, I think you have to totally change what you're offering.

You have to change. And it's a distinction that I've heard it's like you've got to sell them the life raft versus the yacht. So what is it that makes them have a quick win right now that's super relevant to what they believe is they need and then you can use that as an upsell from there. But those, those short very solution based options or if you're selling a 12 month thing, for instance, give them the first 90 days. Like hey, go 90 days in. If you don't get everything that we're promising that you say you're going to get that we, you're what we say you're going to get in these first 90 days you're not committed to the 12 month agreement. Like just giving that kind of assurance for people who feel a sense of uncertainty.

Yeah, I think, I think what I found is that yeah being able to like offer it has to be real solution based and be like this is what you're gonna do. Like I recommended for a lot of people to like cut the 12 month away for a while, come in with like a shorter program. It doesn't even really have to be that much cheaper, but it's like a six week program that would be the same price if they were in your program for six weeks. A bit more expensive but it's that, it's that mental commitment of like this is for six weeks, this is to fix a particular problem and this is how we get out of it. And then on the back end of that you can upsell people into your 12 months because hopefully they've, they've got on the life raft now they can get on the yacht. Right. So yeah, I think it's been, it's been very interesting to see the adjustments that have had to be making marketing. I don't think from a sales perspective there had to be many adjustments made because like another way that I sell probably you sell it's a very emotion based sale anyway. So like you know, it's very digging into pains and stuff like that. And so that's going to work always and forever, right? It doesn't really matter what you're selling like, but you really have to be selling, I think a product that's appropriate for the person that's going on. Because some of those 12, 15 month business coaching packages were just not appropriate for some of these people who are bleeding, you know, because like who gives a shit about a six month plan when I just need to figure out how to keep the doors open like or how to keep the lights on for the next three months. Like let's like, let's talk about that. And how do I, how do I, how do I slash my budget and afford to pay you but also still save money? How do I keep my employees on? Like, what do I do, you know, quick wins. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

And the thing I found different though about in selling in this environment, I'm really big on like proactively overcoming objections with models. So an I sell using an iPad typically. And so I will, I've created particular models. If I hear an objection over and over and over, I will proactively draw that model out when sharing about the program or what it is that I'm selling. So I've hit it at the past so that later on when it comes up it. All right. It eliminates it coming up or I can reference it.

So are you. Okay, so this is a big one, right? That we talk about all the time. Because I'm like a four. I'm a phone sales guy. Like I am.

And I've done that before too.

Yeah, yeah. I do almost all my selling over the phone. There's a couple reasons. One, I'm super fidgety, like even now, like I'm playing with cards. Right. Like I'm doing these ones, you know, I mean, one handed cuts and all that kind of stuff. Right. And so, and I also walk around a lot. It helps me think. Right. But I think Zoom selling would be the go if you're good at it. So what do you think of the differences between selling on Zoom and selling on the phone? And what do you think of the advantages, disadvantages, and what would you recommend for a salesman such as myself who's looking to come into the light and we know, put my beautiful face on video. I think the fact that I'm so attractive is probably going to be, you know, a big win for me.

Probably lose a lot of deals that way.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, just. Just the pure intimidation. Right.

I don't want to distract you.

Yeah. So like what do you think are the real key differences between selling on the phone and selling on Zoom? And what do you think are like as the advantages, disadvantages of doing either?

I used to prefer selling over the phone and primarily because I felt like I'm a big note taker. So I like, I want to be here taking notes and not have the person noticing or having to be mindful of that. So I actually liked selling on the phone because I also didn't want them to feel uncomfortable. But I think especially in this day and age that zoom is like the platform Everybody's moving to. I think it's even more beneficial. I learned at first when I learned how to sell using my iPad and drawing, I was not converting as well as I did on the phone. And I had to pause and tell myself, vanessa, what you're good at is connecting and just be present to connecting, not worrying about what you're drawing. But now that I have sold so much drawing and because I proactively create models in the selling process, I feel it creates a wow factor with the prospect for them to be like, wow, this is a really professional company. And also it is. It keeps their attention and they're not just having to listen because the brain for most of us, we're visual and so. And I even show my voice because I'm like a big proponent. I'll give you an example. Can I share my screen? Would that be.

Yeah. Would that be appropriate?

Let's see if I can pull.

Me and Eli are right into the neutral languaging at the moment. So all of our messages on FL Facebook, or would it. Would it be appropriate if I messaged you on Facebook? Yes, I would. I would be open to that.

Here's an example. Here's all the models that I draw. I draw in this. And it's a little messy, but I'm just pulling up a call I did today. So the.

For the. For the people listening, there will be a YouTube video that will be linked in the description. So you can go.

I've drawn this model to paint the picture for long term because I want to seed in their head because I want to have a conversation with this person for this particular client at the end of 12 months. And I love renewals because it's easy money if you set this stage up front. So I do this, then I walk through. In this particular scenario, the client is like, not, don't go launch month method, go evergreen. So I draw this out, then I draw out the model. Attract, convert, attract, convert, serve. And then draw out what is the funnel around that. And then I walk through the logistics of the mall. There's a very specific methodology I use.

So you drawing this live or is.

This a. I'm drawing this live. Like. Like this is one of my favorite.

That would fuck me up.

I'd be like, I'll say, well, when there's people like you who are trying to launch a course online, trying to solve this issue, you're going to say, oh, my gosh, I've got to get the lead gen piece. So you might go over here and invest in Somebody who can teach you Facebook ads. And then you're saying, oh, wait, I need a funnel. Somebody's told me I need one of those webinars. Okay, so let me pay somebody to teach me what I do with webinars. But then stuff's not working right. And then you realize, oh, man, I probably need to dial in the copywriting on this.

Okay, so just so everyone can understand, I'll just explain. She's basically got a circle with like eight segments, and she's essentially building a massive knowledge gap is what I. Yeah.

And I'm sharing, like, and then, like, mindset. And then what about whenever you need to hire people and you don't want to spend all your money hiring the wrong people because then you're not even running a profitable business. And then strategy. And I just, like, map out all these things that I know that they're going to need in building their business. And I go, this is going to cost you money, these, all these things. And you're going to have. You're going to have somebody who says, okay, well, I'll teach you. I'll teach you ads. But when it's not working end to end, guess who they're going to blame? They're going to blame that your funnel in your webinar doesn't work. And so it's. You don't have a cohesive A to Z solution. So we help you save the money you'd waste on all these different providers. And instead of having an incoherent system, we have the team and the tools to support you in all of that all in one place.

I love it. I want to buy. I'm so easy to sell. I would have bought off that presentation. I don't care what it is. Yep.

Where do I pay?

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so what's the rig that use and what's the setup? It's an iPad attached to your computer.

It's an iPad. I personally like to attach it with a cable. It's an iPad pro. So I'm drawing notability and using the.

Art function cue to the weekend when Matt goes and buys an iPad pro. Because, you know, I was speaking to Chris and you know Chris, and that's how he used to sell his program, like, when he was selling it. Obviously we sell it now and we sell it really well. But yeah, I was like, man, that's a really powerful. Because, like, the way that I sell it's so emotion based. So emotion based. Right. Like, I. A lot of people cry on the phone with Me and I think that probably so like. But the logic side rarely gets covered. So like with me and James can tell you I can sell a program without knowing any of the logistics. And I usually, like, if I'm selling a new program, I'll hop on 20 minutes before the first call and read the outline of what it is. And I'm like, yep, good to go. Like, so. And then that's. And that's probably. Yeah, it's a good and a bad thing. Right. But I think like something like that you would. You pick up. You can still take them down the same emotional journey, but during that whole sort of presentation, problem awareness type stuff, you can, you can bring in more of the logical people, those type C personalities, you know, that aren't necessarily going to respond really well to that and going to be a little bit uncomfortable. You can sort of take them through that logical journey as well. And you can tie off both sides of the brain because essentially to get a. To get a really high close rate consistently, you do have to tie off both sides of the brain, especially when you're selling expensive products.

There's types of buyers. And what I love is that it eliminates the types of buyers who are, you know, I need to think about it or can you send me the details of what's in the program or blah, blah, blah, like those kind of like delayed decision makers. It just helps like, well, let's address it here and map it out. And they see and it's like, okay.

And if you're recording it too, like this was being recorded and you can be sent this call and then you have every like, you know, everything. Like there's nothing that we can't go over here.

I don't recording. But I'll say, hey, you're welcome to take a screen screenshot.

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I guess that's also like your IP as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess for.

My clients that I sell for, I'll create the models that will sell their stuff. But I. It comes from like, what are the most common objections? And I need to proactively.

Yeah.

Hit them at the past.

Is that. Is that part of the services that you provide as well? Through the costly clothes, you help people kind of create those muddles and do that kind of stuff.

Yep.

Amazing. All right, cool. I'm sure we'll be sending a few people to you because I'll just get my clients to pay you to develop the model so I can sell it easier. That'll be that Sounds like a really good idea. That way everybody wins. All right, cool.

Why don't you tell us a bit about classic closes?

Yeah.

The classic close is a system that works through the framework of a sales call, but also the inner work, the mindset stuff. So we kind of start with the mindset and then I go and break down every single part of the classy clothes. So the C stands for creating context in the conversation from the get go. And the L is the leadership for taking that leadership position. A is ask. So it's how to ask the questions in the right way. Like, what are the questions that are going to prompt the responses that you want? S is how do you serve? So there's a way to where I, you know, the matchy matchy. So in a way they kind of feel like, oh my gosh, that's what the roadmap looks like. And then the solution. S is the next S is solution. And then the Y is the yes logistics for after the yes. How do you not lose the sale? How do you get the contract signed? The money on the call? Like for me, SL is not done with a verbal yes. Like I need. And there's a sequence that I even teach for how to do that because of the psychology of like, even when somebody has said yes, they could like, literally all the internal stuff of like excitement and fears all coming up at the same time. And they could be in the middle of signing a contract and be like, you know what? I'm feeling nervous. Can we pause this for a moment? And I just teach like the methodology to go through that as well.

Yeah, great. Whenever I'm taking credit card, I always give them like three pieces of information that I have about them. So I tell them the information. Okay, so your first names, this, your last names, this, your email, Is this your phone number, is this. What's your credit card number? Okay, great. What's your address? So like, they feel way more comfortable. Just kind of like, well, it's guy already has so much information about me, you know?

Yeah. So I always do before address. I do not wait for credit card. I go over a credit card as quickly as, okay, let's do it. I will pause and say what makes it a yes for you? So it's just like nailing their own reasons.

Yeah, but, but, but why though? Yeah, that's, that's how I do it. Yeah, I do a little like intentional stuttering and then draw it out. Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, but, but, but why? And they're like, oh, yeah, this I go, all right, cool, let's do it.

All right, cool. Yeah, I'll let you buy.

Yeah, yeah. All right. Are you. So are you doing. Do you get most of your clients to set you up with the triage method? No, no, you get straight to salespeople.

One of my. Actually two of my favorite clients, we just go straight to the call. But we set up their funnel in preparation for the call and in a very specific methodology where we are pre selling the program and people are basically applying so that it's not a, hey, just sell this free call. Sell the free call. Sell the free call. It's just a different twist on that. And so it just allows us to go straight to the strategy session.

So it's very marketing based. If someone's got a super strong brand, super strong base, you know, that they can provide, they're doing everything that you say. That's a big thing, right? Like with me, I hate when I tell, like, accounts come to me and they're like, how do we get more sales? Like, oh, you need to do this? They're like, no, I just mean, like, can we just pump more leads? I'm like, well, no, I don't really want more leads. Like, let's just do this. Add some webinars, add some trust building, add some this, add some this, add some this. And I, we brought in a new client just the other day, and he's like, what do I need to do to make this the easiest sale possible? And I go, do this. And he goes, okay. And like a day later it was done. And I was like, I like you. And that's like 40k for six months. So that's an expense, an expensive program. All right, cool. And if you do do triages, do you do them yourself or do you have somebody else do them for you?

I do not enjoy triages. Personally. I know in some cases it's worth measuring the metrics to see if it makes a distinction in the closing. But I found that I could always outsource or somebody else doing the triage and just get me with closing calls. So it's my preference not to.

I love it. What are some tips that you have for sale? I just got some rapid fire questions. What are some tips that you have for, like, time management of sales reps? Like, like burnout. Like. Cause I had a call with a guy the other day and he's like, he's killing it, right? Like, he's closing at 80% for a fitness offer at like five grand. The marketing is phenomenal. Like anyone who can't afford it, they kick off the calls. Right. Like they don't even allow to get on. Um, so that's some context there. But the dude's doing 10 calls a day pretty much back to back at 45 minutes. And I was like, woof, bro, you're gonna fitness doing that many fitness offers. I was like, you need to schedule in some breaks. I told the business owner, I was like, you need to give him a paid week off every 12 weeks. I was like, cause that dude's good and if you want to keep him, you, you better be one paying in bonuses. But to like give them some time off because otherwise that dude's head's going to explode.

Yeah. You have to honor your own rhythms. Like, I know for me, I do not enjoy taking a call before 10am Like I can do it, but it's not super fun for me because I have my routines in the morning and I've done calls all the way to really late because I have Australian clients. But I start to realize like, okay, I am basically shot after eight and my sleep's to going, going to be screwed up. So those kinds of things building in a break for lunch, take a walk, move. What? I have an aura ring. I don't have it on me right now, but that'll prompt, hey, it's time to get up and move your legs. Little things like that. So self care is huge for salespeople because we're driven. We're driven by. At least I am by winning. I love winning. And so I can go on that adrenaline of winning for a really long time. But to sustain it, it's better to intentionally build in patterns that honor my own daily rhythm of how I feel. When do I feel best in the day. Although I put in quite a few calls in single days. But by Friday I don't want to be doing calls. Like after two it's completely shut off. So those are some things that I know. Just honor my best schedule. And I just. Everybody's individual.

What do you think? Is it. Have you found there's like a least productive day to do sales? I always found that I had the most amount of reschedules on a Monday.

Yeah, Mondays aren't fantastic.

Yeah.

Because people have forgotten they booked it. I actually, if I have to do triages, I will schedule them for Monday, Tuesdays so I can close them.

It's exactly what I did. Yeah. So. And then I'll do triages again, possibly on a Friday, because sales calls sometimes you can get like after A certain time people just, they're not mentally in the space for sales calls. So I can do a triage then get them booked in for. Yeah, I never like to have more than like three days in between a triage and a sales call. But I think, yeah, I think that like if marketing is done right, you can just go straight to sales call. Like the only thing is the show up. Right. What are some things that, that you would give as tips to help with shop rate?

Exclusivity of them realizing, like we only take like almost push them back on a thank you page video after they booked. Like, hey, you know what, if you're not going to show up or if you're not ready for this or if you're not ready for that, where it's like, I really believe in kind of pre selling the program through the process. Then I say, then proactively say, go ahead and cancel the call. Pushing them away. And then I've just found like it shows. Like they almost feel like I've got to show up. I'm proving myself in this call. Like I'm being evaluated for the program. I love that posture a lot more than the chasing of the prospect. That works.

Okay, and do you do your own follow ups or do you have someone follow up people for you?

I schedule follow ups so I don't have anything that's like, I hate homework. So there.

We're not scheduled there now.

Yeah, it's like, when is it? Like even if they're like, hey, I'm not ready, I'm moving three months. Okay, let's choose a date. When.

Okay. Sweet. That's easy. That's really good. Yeah, I find like getting everything done there and then is just, it's way easier just to reiterate that last question.

These are questions from our team that have directly asked specifically for you so that they can get better themselves as well. Well, I think what they mean by those follow ups is let's say if you've scheduled that call two months down the track with that person that's moving, do you have someone, your team, that will follow up with that person specifically to say, hey, are you still right for that call? It's two weeks from now. How's the move gone? Are we still on? Do we need to reschedule, et cetera, or can I book you in for another time? Do you have someone on your back end managing that process for you in case that person needs to reschedule or whatever?

No, we built automation campaigns that have that specifically nurturing up to that, leading up to that.

So you book them and then it triggers a series of automation.

Perfect answer. Thank you.

Nice one. What do you think was it, and I hope you don't feel interrogated, what is it that you think kind of took you from I guess, being, you know, a salesperson, selling fitness stuff, selling your own franchise to then like, what are the steps that you think you took? Was it a pretty natural progression? I totally agree what you said when you said sales is teachable. It is the most teachable thing, like any. I had an, I had an argument with it. Not an argument because I talked circles around him, but I was on a webinar that I was kind of like helping somebody out and they had someone coming on saying sales can't be taught, it's a natural thing or you can't do it. And so I just sort of talk circles around him. But I totally, like, I was terrible at sales. Terrible, straight up horrific. Like I could not sell anyone. And the only reason why I became half decent at it was because I had to, because I really wanted to eat and I had my own gym and I couldn't pay anyone to do it. And I had leads coming in. So I was like, I better get good at this. So I paid a mentor to teach me some stuff that made me somewhat okay. Then I just got better and better. And then as I got better, I was like, well, I should just do this more because it's the most income generating thing I can do. So then I just started analyzing everything I was doing to try and make sure that the words coming out of my face were economical. Yeah, because I think the thing that I said to a guy, I was on a coaching call the other day was like, your calls are too long, so you need to listen to your calls and figure out if what you're saying actually provides any value. And if it doesn't, just stop saying it. Because going from like, when you take someone down that emotional journey, like you're talking about, the longer that goes for like the less impact the emotion from back here has. So the more you can condense it into say like 30 to 45 minutes, like the much more power and the much more certainty they have at the end of the course. So like economy of words was, was a huge one. Like, like, like for me personally. So what do you think was some of those things for you?

Really? I'm a geek about language. So I used to have like in my network marketing days, my, my team and even in the coaching space, people would say like, can I just have a doll? And I just pull the string and you say the words. Because it just flows and it sounds so it's smooth and it works. And what I had them do, like in that scenario is I would go to trade shows and I would put them at the booth with me and I'm like, you're going to talk to 200 people today until you say it so many times. So it's that repetition thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you're right. Like I call it 007. What are the key seven questions that are most crucial for you to say in a, in a sales call that I just found? Like, are those guiding them through the journey without.

Funny. I have six questions that are the six questions. Yeah, I do. Yeah. So, yeah, that's funny.

Sounds like missing one.

Yeah, it sounds like I'm missing one. Yeah, exactly.

I'm like, I have one too many.

Yeah. Either way, I don't think, I think it'll be fine. I think, I think, I think we're both doing okay. Yeah. Yeah, that, that, that, that's really cool. I think like sales is one of those things. Like it's, it's beautiful when you can do it right. And once you hit it. Like I saw this amazing. I put it up. I'm sure if I put it up my Facebook, but I put it up in this, in this sort of group that I'm in where it was like, you know in the Matrix one, when Neo, when he becomes Neo and all of a sudden he can just do everything. And it was like when the sales training finally kicks in and you can overcome every objection and he's fighting that guy one handed. Like I was like, that's exactly what it's like. It's what it feels like when you're in that zone. Like right now I feel like I'm in a really good sales like head space. Like I haven't had a no in weeks. Um, I can sell. I sold people into programs who didn't even know about the program and they just hopped on the phone with me to talk about something else. Um, and I sold them into it and I was just like, you just kind of feel in that vibe where like no matter who you talk to, so it feels really good and you feel like everything is a bit of a sale, you know. And then you start talking and thinking that way, which is really cool. But yeah, I just think like when certain, there are certain key concepts at the moment, they click. You're just like, ah, that's, that's I get that now. Like, I get. I understand the importance of getting the emotional drivers. I understand the importance of creating urgency during the call. I understand the importance of pre. Handling certain objections conversationally. You know, like stress and partners and money and stuff like that. Like, once you kind of get those things and you can handle them smoothly, like you said, it becomes a whole different ball game because it's just you talking to somebody. There's none of that sales pressure. You know, it's just someone talking to you and leading you down a path. But you don't feel like you're being led.

Yeah, like, the mental image that's in my mind in the journey is it's almost like a dancing. You're dancing with a partner and you know you're leading it. And you know that they're scared to go in that particular circle. That's like their little area where they're fearful of going. But you know you're going to elegantly glide them around the room because you know you're going to end up at this. End up in this particular spot in the room. And it's just that confidence, but it's almost like a dance partner where you can't push harder than they're ready to receive. So it's. There's a feeling that you're filling out with that person, but you know precisely where you're guiding them and going. And I would say, like, I didn't even. I personally did not specifically see that theme of sales for myself. I was in a partnership with a gal and we were selling a $30,000 a month product program for three months. And she had like the curriculum and I. Not cheap and it wasn't cheap.

90K. Nice one.

And like you're going to talk to 200 people today until you say it so many times. So it's that repetition thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you're right. Like, I call it 007. What are the key seven questions that are most critical, crucial for you to say in a sales call that I just found? Like, are those guiding them through the journey without.

That's funny. I have six questions that are the six questions. Yeah, I do. Yeah. So, yeah, that's funny.

Sounds like.

Yeah, it sounds like I'm missing one. Yeah, exactly.

I'm like, I have one too many.

Yeah, either way, I don't think. I think it'll be fine. I think, I think, I think we're both doing okay. Yeah, yeah, that, that, that, that's really cool. I think like, sales is one of those things. Like it's it's beautiful when you can do it right. And once you hit it, like I saw this amazing. I put it out. I'm sure I put up my Facebook, but I put it up in this, in this sort of group that I'm in where it was like, you know in the Matrix one, when Neo, when he becomes Neo and all of a sudden he can just do everything. And I was like, when the sales training finally kicks in and you can overcome every objection he's fighting that guy one handed. Like I was like, that's exactly what it's like. It's what it feels like when you're in that zone. Like right now I feel like I'm in a really good sales like headspace. Like I haven't had a no in weeks. Um, I can sell. I sold people into programs who didn't even know about the program and they just hopped on the phone with me to talk about something else. Um, and I sort of into it and I was just like, you just kind of feel in that vibe where like no matter who you talk to, so it feels really good and you feel like everything is a bit of a sale, you know. And then you start talking and thinking that way, which is really cool. But yeah, I just think like when certain, there are certain key concepts at the moment, they click. You're just like, ah, that's, that's. I get that now. Like, I get. I understand the importance of getting in the emotional drivers. I understand the importance of creating urgency during the call. I understand the importance of pre. Handling certain objections conversationally. You know, like stress and partners and money and stuff like that. Like once you kind of get those things and you can handle them smoothly, like you said, it becomes a whole different ball game because it's just you talking to somebody. There's none of that sales pressure. You know, it's just someone talking to you and leading you down a path. But you don't feel like you're being led.

Yeah, like the mental image that's in my mind in the journey is it's almost like a dancing. You're dancing with a partner and you know you're leading it and you know that they're scared to go in that particular circle. That's like their little area where they're fearful of going. But you know you're going to elegantly glide them around the room because you know you're going to end up at this, end up in this particular spot in the room. And it's just that confidence, but it's almost Like a dance partner where you can't push harder than they're ready to receive. So it's, there's a feeling that you're filling out with that person, but you know precisely where you're guiding them and going. And I would say like, I didn't even, I personally did not specifically see that theme of sales for myself. I was in a partnership with a gal and we were selling a $30,000 a month program for three months. And she had like the curriculum and I. Not cheap and it wasn't cheap.

90K. Nice one.

And we got on and we, we were, we put this team together, we had a quarter of a million dollar lunch like in six weeks with went from concept to like, let's do this together too. And I did like, when we looked at the ratios, I was closing way more. And I was like, this is actually really easy for me. And I had somebody who was even like, can you come and coach? Like, would you be interested in coaching for my company? And I was like, no. Like that's not as fun. Because I always found when I was even selling my own stuff, I loved closing it. But then I was like, oh my gosh, now I gotta coach them. Like that didn't feel as fun for me.

It's the worst delivery sucks. It's why I'm a sales guy.

Well then it's like as time went on, I'm like, that's really my jam. And here's the thread of how it's shown up.

Yeah, it's cool. I was yet very, very similar as well. Like, you know, I've done a little bit of marketing coaching that was sales, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I still, I do sales coaching, but my sales coaching is like, it's so specific in how it's done. It's like four one on one sessions and then like call recordings. That's it. It's just like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Like set the script, set the frame, figure out what's going right and wrong. And then a call recording every two weeks. It's like there's, there's no like delivery. I don't have to make a portal. I have to do any of that crap. You know what I mean? I don't have to do business coaching. To me seems like the worst job ever. Like I couldn't, it would explode my head. Having to deal with people on a daily basis like that. You know, people didn't do this.

It's just.

Ugh, shut up. That's why I like dealing with salespeople because most of the time, like, they're so driven to become better because everything they learn is a direct reflection to their income. And so the better they get in those small things. Like the guy I talked to you the day, I mean, he's closing so well, but he's going from 50% one week to 80% the next week. And he's going bang, bang, bang, bang. And his calls are way too long. So it's like all we got to do is get you up to 70% every week, which you're obviously capable of, and then take your calls from an hour to 35 minutes. And for a 5K offer that's reasonable, then you're making the same money in literally half the time.

Yeah.

And it's like, then you're only working 15 hours a week to make the same money that you're now doing like 40 hours a week and making it consistently. Yeah. And then your head's not exploding. You can actually talk to your missus at the end of the day. And you don't just want to not talk because that's the worst when you come home from a big day of sales and just like, I'm not talking to anyone. What's the biggest single week you've had in terms of revenue generated and closing? Like, actual numbers?

Revenue generated.

You take so many calls.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

I mean, like, I personally sell, not counting my team, like 3 million a month. So it's.

That's loco numbers. You're crazy, lady. That's fantastic. And how many calls. How many calls a week are you taking?

I'm basically doing, like, for one of my clients, I'm available 20 hours, so however many calls they can get me in that time. And then another client will give me between three to ten calls a week.

You're right. So you're probably doing at least sort of 25 sales calls a week.

At least. Well, if you put in like I told you, I've done up to 55.

It's crazy. I think the biggest week I've ever had of sales calls, like high ticket sales calls, was something on the, like, probably 15, 16 of actual calls booked. Yeah. Like I. Just. Because of the volume, like maybe that's the difference in being in Australia as well and being in the, like the amount of people in the US is obviously far higher. But. Or maybe it's just because I need to get. Get better accounts. That's probably. But yeah. Also I was doing triages for all them, so I ended up doing like End up doing like. Like 20 hours of triaging to get yourself 15 sales calls? Yeah, it's a bit of a nightmare, but, yeah, my. Yeah, from. From that. I think I did 15 calls and closed 11 of them. That was my best week. And that was a week that was like 400k or something that week. Um, which is pretty good. Good close rate, but, man, 3 million a month. So we got. We got a new standard, James. We got a new standard. We got to get up there. I got to start selling these 40k programs that.

I want to join our team.

Do you want to join a lead. Our team? Jesus. I think I should step down. Awesome. Okay, so final thing. What is the objection that you got that you're never gonna forget that's stuck in your crawl?

Oh, my God. There was a girl. She said, okay, so I'm not going to be able to make a decision on the call. I need some time. And I said, okay, say more. And she said, well, do you know human design? And I was like, yeah, actually, I do. I do know human design. And she said, well, I'm the type that. It says that I can't make a decision that's on. On right away. And I said, well, I'm curious. What type is that precisely? It's just like, I don't know. And I was like, oh, my God. You're gonna, like, rule your life by this human design, and you don't even know what type you are? It was like, oh, my gosh. How creative can you get with an.

Objection that's like saying, I'm not gonna eat bread because of the blood type diet. What blood type are you? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure some of them can't eat bread.

The equivalent of, like, reading your horoscope then adjusting your day so you read.

The outcome of what horoscope says but not knowing what. What month you were born in? Yeah.

I don't know. It's that one.

Yeah. Yeah. That's ridiculous. You get some. You get some crazy people.

That has got to be, like, the best objection I've ever heard.

You know what I think? I think this is for the best. I would. I'd like to wrap it up here. Right.

She ended up buying, but, yeah, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna go ahead dead on a human design.

Exactly.

You ask, like, where else does this show up? Right?

Yeah, exactly. I've had some great ones. You get some really? I think when I used to have. I used to have a really, really pushy Style of sales. There was nothing classy about it. It's definitely changed a lot over, over, over time. But like. Cause I use. Cause I came from a fitness sales background. Like I learned from all the fitness sales guys and it's a real beat em up style. Like it's basically, it was basically five minutes of selling and then lean in hard to the objection handling. That's how I used to sell. So I would like, I do all the discovery, goal, motive, everything in like five minutes and then pitch and then objection handle and close. Right. That's what I would do. And it got me really, really good at objection handling. Like don't get me wrong wrong. Like now I can. You can really talk circles around people if you're really good at that. But the better you are, the less objections you get. So it's like, you know, if you're really good at objection.

There's some people who sell like I actually call it selling by inspiring because I found it to be as important to touch it in on the pain to get them to the peak of their, their why and like that you being their advocate to see a picture that's even higher than and what they can see for themselves. And what I found is like if people feel really seen around that and like you are their advocate, then it inspires them. Like it takes them like out of the logic and not just pain. Because what I've seen some people do and especially like health and wellness and that sort of thing, if you beat them down too much, they actually lose faith in themselves and they're. What they're really saying no to is the fact that they don't trust themselves.

Yeah. So you get them out of the buying pocket. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, I used to do it all the time. I've got, I've got a bunch of sales calls recorded of me doing like fitness sales. And I listen to them. I'm like, man, that's rough. Like was that.

You're an absolute dick.

Oh yeah. As an asshole. Total asshole. But it worked. I mean I was selling a couple of hundred memberships a month. You know what I mean? And these are $400 or it's 250 over the phone. But it was like I had, I just had a massive list of leads and I had to. It was like, how do I get this in the fastest possible way? And I was closing him in like 18 minutes.

It was just like, what do you think is like. This is a, this is an interesting observation because you came from fitness sales. I did too. What Industries of people having backgrounds, do you see make the best salespeople?

Fitness for sure. For me, people with a fitness background have usually there's a couple reasons why. First of all, you get every objection on every single, every. I need to think about it. I need to the time, I need to chat to my partner. I don't know if I should. Like, man, you get every objection because overweight people are overweight for a reason, right? Like, and so every single fiber of their being causes them to be overweight and so it's stopping them from doing it. Right. Like, so you're essentially like, you're selling money to broke people, you know what I mean? Like, it's something that they don't even think that they can truly achieve, right? And, and usually you have to do a high volume and it's like a low to medium ticket. But it took. But people consider it expensive for what it is. So if you're selling group training for $100 a week, people that explodes their head sometimes, you know, I mean, like how expensive that is. So you have to learn how to set frameworks. And it taught me about price surprise. When people are surprised about a price, it doesn't even matter if it's valuable. They're surprised and then it takes them back and it takes them out of the emotion, puts them too much into like a logic framework and then it's really hard to take them out of it. So you have to find ways to like disguise the price during the call so they have some sort of like understanding of where it's going to be on like a subconscious level. So I learned how to do that and pre handling objections, but really just the fact that you can be on thousands and thousands of sales calls, like, I have not been doing sales that long, really, like a few years, you know, in terms of like really intense sales, probably like five years. But man, like in those, in that time, like, I've done tens of thousands of sales because I was. I had to sell a couple of hundred people every month. So like, I just don't know what. There's not many other industries that you can get that volume of lead, that many objections and have to really dig deep on every single call to get people to overcome the things that they have to overcome to get them to lose the weight that they need to lose. Like, and you actually help people. So when you, when they do it and you get them into it, there's actually like a level of satisfaction from actually getting that person to take action on something. So it's a really good segue, I think, to doing stuff. Um, what have you found on timeshares? People who can share timeshares can share fitness actually.

People who've been like bartenders because they don't have any fear of talking to people. And then also people in network marketing.

Yeah, network marketing produces some killers for sure. Yeah. I think it's such a highly competitive.

Industry and you've heard no so many times. Actually I look for people who've actually had success in network marketing because if they were successful in that industry, I'm like, oh, it's transferable. Come on, come aboard.

Yeah, for sure. That's where Jeremy got his. He made $3 million commission doing network marketing. And I spoke to him about that. I was like, how the fuck did you do that? It's like that seems like a crazy amount of commission to make. Like I can only imagine.

Yes, it's your whole downline. You're earning from your whole downline.

Yeah, yeah. He sort of explained and I was like, that makes sense. But I was like, man, that's.

But it comes. What you have to do is you have to be really good at getting recruiting people and then having them replicate your system. That's why I had like basically a classy closed structure in network marketing that I could. I taught all my team how to go through this little formula that got them to buy. Get people to buy big packages of stuff.

Yeah, for sure. And like again, it's a teachable thing. Right. So if you have a system like Jeremy's system of that NEPQ system, it's highly learnable. It really is one of the most learnable sort. Now to get it really good at it with the tonality and the pausing and the stuttering and the this and this. That's hard. But the actual like system itself, just.

Practice and get better at and Exactly. You know, when you're in sales, you're a student of it forever. Because I, you know, you and I met in another sales training program and I'm always reading books, learning stuff because I'm like, if I pick up one little tweak, that that'll end up being a multimillion dollar tweak.

It's exactly right. Like the benefits, like the reason why I signed up with Jeremy is because like I was taking people from triage to sales club. My show up rate was terrible. Like it was like 50% or below. And so I was like, what am I doing on like, but I'm closing 80% of people. So I was like, if I just get them to show up, then I can close them. So if I double my club, my show up rate, then I so. Well, essentially it was. I was applying too much sales pressure. Like, I didn't. I didn't even know that I was right. And so I listened to a webinar that, that Jeremy did and he talked about sales just. And sales pressure. I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. So I bought his course, which was like say two, two thousand bucks or something like that. Went through it and I was like, oh, this is awesome. Then I reached out to him on Facebook and I was like, hey man, let's have a talk. And then he sold me into some 30k package in like 22 minutes. I was like, okay, let's do it. Yeah. So, yeah, he's a man. It's been worth a tweet in gold because, like, I've then taught all my team that method of not applying sales on triage. And now everyone show up. Rates are like 80%.

Oh, sweet.

So, like it's. It's made a huge difference. Like, huge. Like, it's probably double.

I've had in my own company and I'm starting to now do placements for people who, who do triage. I've actually had people who are in the customer care role or in the coaching role. Do those do the triage. Why? Because they have a good feel for who is a good client or not. And they don't have that pressure component.

They're not salesy.

I don't even think trout triage has to be done by a salesperson personally.

Yep. No, I would agree with that. Yeah, that's kind of what we're trying to figure out. How do we. Because we have like three or four sales guys who are absolute killers. And it's like, how do we get that? How do we remove them from the triage? Because essentially, like, you can look at that as an enormous waste of time. Like, let's get someone else doing that. We could have one person probably doing all that and then pay them a full time salary. And then like, just have all these guys just open their diaries up and they can go from doing 10, 12 sales calls a week to 20 to 30.

I think it's. That's my preference is having every single function in a sales process to. There's a guy who actually wrote a sales book called the Machine who teaches that. And it's been my experience where instead. And I've had people I've talked to who are like, Vanessa, I need A new salesperson. I'm like, hey, what happened with your last person? And they're like, well, they just wanted to close. They didn't want to do all this and this and this and this. And I'm like, the best closer one, too close. Don't have them do all that other stuff. Hire each function so they get really good in their function. And if you have that machine set up, keep your closers closing. Don't be upset that they don't want to go into your Facebook group and mine for leads. I mean, that's just my philosophy.

Yes, Closers close. Like people who have experience doing it who are like me and you and who can close at a really high rate. And we want good commissions. We want to maximize everything. Like, I'm not doing your lead gen. I'm not doing your admin. I'm not doing your. Like, I'm not saving clients. The worst number. Number one tip for all coaches out there, do not have salespeople try and save clients. That is a great way to kill.

Your salespeople retention calls to get feedback of why they're leaving the program. The worst. A hundred percent agree with you. I'm like, it's not good.

I did it for a week. One of these guys, one of my coaches asked me to do it for a week, and I said, hey, man, if you ever want me to sell this program ever again, you'll never ask me to do that, because now I have to now detox all the shit things that I've heard.

I know. It's so hard. I did it for one of my clients. I did it for, like a year, year and a half. By the end, I was like, you don't understand. You have to protect me from client complaints or what? There's the bad experience. I'm like, otherwise, I'll go back to, like, selling my own stuff. I can't even get, like, I couldn't look at my own customer care email when I was a coach because I would get kind of sassy. I was like, no, I'm not the.

Right person for that role, bitch. What?

I'm like, I'm just so sarcastic, and I would want to respond to customers.

Congratulations. Your rate doubled. You want to go again? Tripled.

Oh, wait, you want to make how much money?

And blah, blah, blah.

You're thinking this way? No. Good luck.

Yeah. No, I'm just saying, I had a conversation. We had a conversation with an account the other day. You're like, hey, man, like, we got to remove all the salespeople. From Slack, we got to remove them from everything because like they're seeing, they're seeing behind the curtain with every coach and organization there's an element of unhappy people and most of the time it's not even the coaches fault. Right. Like that's just the way it is. Right. But man, like if they get, they see all that, like having them in the off boarding channel, terrible idea. Like those people should only see the greatest things about the program. They should only see wins, they should only see highlight reels. That's it. Because man, they have to come up to that call with 150% certainty, you know, in order to close those deals. And if you've got guys that are closing at 60, 70, I mean I think right now one of our guys, Marco is closing over 90%. Right?

How to know in two weeks he's closing.

That's the secret. I want to know is how you guys are not getting no's for weeks.

Well, we don't have nearly as many calls as you so that's probably an easier way. So you know, he's probably had 10 calls. Calls. So he's made 10 sales. You know what I mean? It's just a volume.

Granted some have been deposits and, and have fallen through after. But he hasn't had an actual no on a sales call.

But some have deposits are like 50% of the first month. Yeah, I mean so. But they forfeit that. Like that's the way it is. But yeah, so. But Marco's a strange man. He like loves cold calling. Like he loves it. He's a closer who loves cold calling. It's weird, he's just, he used to work for Grant Cardone. So he's an interesting, interesting character. Yeah, interesting character. Alrighty. I don't want to keep you any more time but like I really appreciate you coming on. I think this was an awesome conversation for anyone who's in sales or anyone who runs a sales team or a business coach. If you're out there, you're running a sales team, like listen to this podcast because like this is the behind the scenes of like what salespeople want and good ones who want to be kept happy. So like I really appreciate it was really good and just want to say thank you and where can people find you? What can they buy off you?

How do they sign up to class?

Closeyclothes.com that's our program around teaching sales. But if you're like, hey, I want to watch a webinar. I want to learn some things high end sales secrets dot com.

Alright, Perfect. And I just always say, be aware if you are going to opt in, you are probably going to end up being sold. So that's the whole point.

Yeah. I always say, like, when you're having people thank you for the way that you close them, you know, that you're doing something right. Oh my God, I love that. That was amazing.

It's a really positive experience when it's done well. Yeah.

It'S service.

It is. It's a fun game. All right, well, thanks so much, Vanessa. And we will. I'll link everything in the description.

Awesome being here with you guys. Bye for now.

All right, recording is stopped. I think. Put that coffee down. Coffee is for closers only.