Sales Expert Reacts to INSANE Outbound Calling Advice

Hey guys, what's up? Matt here in today's video, I'm going to be going over just some advice that people are giving out there on the interwebs, telling people how they should dial, when they should dial. And then I'm going to be going over what I think of that as someone who you know is pretty deep in the world of like dialing and when and how you should do it and what the most effective mechanisms are to be able to dial leads. So here we go.

What do you think about triple dialing?

Yeah, you got a triple dial. So there's two types. You have your five minute call which we track on the new tele tracking sheet and then you have your bulk dials. Your bulk dials. Is anybody who didn't pick up in five minutes or you were busy selling a pol policy or something so you couldn't get to the five minute call. So everybody else becomes bulk dialing. Bulk dialing. You're going to call them, triple dial them three times in a row every single time you call them. You're going to do that three times a day for five days. And if you don't want to do that, take inbound transfers, please.

I'm assuming he's saying don't triple dial three times in a row and do that three times a day because that would be three, six, nine times and then times three times in a day, which would be an awful lot. So triple dialing is one of those things where people do it like they think because it works, it's actually massively detrimental to what you're trying trying to do. Triple dialing is like the number one reason why you get spam flags. These people probably have like terrible contact rates and like I'm no issue with them personally because it's just calling people, but I think that the way that they're telling people to do it would be a tremendous, not only compliance risk but also you would burn phone numbers like crazy. The easiest way to get spam flag is being, is like, is triple dialing. So 1, 2, 3 in the TCPA like there are some states have hard minimums and maximums and all that kind of good stuff. However, generally three times in a day is sort of like the rule. So like in Florida, Florida for example, expressly three times in a day, a lot of them are like what's reasonable? And it's sort of like not really said, but it's like the feeling of the prospect. What I can say though, that if you triple dial people three times, like that is A lot of dialing, that's nine times a day. And they're saying, do that every single day for 10 days. You have 90 times. What are you doing? Like, I get that that's what you want to do to make it work, but it's absurd. It's harassment. Like, the reason why they do is like, yeah, but they're going to think it's an emergency and their kids dying and they're going to pick up the phone. What a shitty way to start a rel relationship with a potential customer to go, like, I'm gonna trick you into think your family's dying. So you pick up the phone and.

Be like, hey, you want to buy some? Of course they're not gonna want to buy off you.

Jesus Christ. It's so obnoxious.

The triple dial is actually the key. Call, call, call, right? Then if they don't answer, we wait two hours, call, call, call again. Two hours, call, call, call. We do that three days in a row now. Sometimes they answer after the third dial and they're like, why are you calling me? Because you asked me to. I've got your quote. Are you ready? Do you've got a minute right now? And then we get into it. The hardest part of buying leads is getting a hold of the customer. But once you get a hold of the customer, you can make it work.

So the hardest part for a lot of people is actually getting a hold of the of the leads. But it doesn't have to be that way. Like a dialer. We're getting really high contact rates because we build a system that's designed to work within it. So the issue is, right, with the tcpa, which is the Telecommunications Protection act, right. It's designed to stop people from harassing their leads. There is some pretty strong legislation. Like it's really like 8 to 9, right? But in some states it's 8 to 8. In some states it's $4 a day, some it's 3. We generally just cap everyone at $3 a day. You can go outside of that, but it's a really good rule because, like, it also includes like text. Let's just say you can get away with four times a day or something like that. For most places, five, five times a day, which is a lot, right? When you think about it, imagine someone called you, you had five missed calls on a day from someone. It's an awful lot, right? So we build that in. And what that does is it maintains number health. People think spam flagging is like some sort of like black Art thing where no one knows it's super clear like and it's not even tcpa, but it's like what is that carrier? What is their representative being like Orion or TNT or something like that? What are they saying is scam like behavior? And this dude, I'm sure he's a lovely man, but that is going to promote, that is promoting exactly what they are trying to stop, which is causing that person, whoever is taking that advice, they are going to have significantly reduced contact rates because of it. I would happily argue with this person about it because I have millions of dollars a month being done with people as high as 80% lead to contact rate without having to do any of that. Because I built a system that's designed to work within the system so you can actually get good rates. Triple dialing. I've spoken to like some of the heads at Orion and TNT and Haya and triple dialing is the number one behavior that gets a number spam flagged the number one and for some reason everyone's using it. But it's because they're just burning through numbers deciding that that's the best way to do it. Let's have a look at the next one.

If you aren't triple dialing, please do it. Meaning call people back to back to back. So if I call Cody and he don't pick up, I call him immediately again. He don't pick up the second time, I call him immediately a third time right away. Most people don't pick up numbers they don't know. Now if someone calls you again, what's the thought process? I mean I call Cody once, he looks at it and goes red. But I call him again, he's bound to go like who that is, right? Maybe pick something, maybe don't. Did I call a third time? What's probably going through your head? Someone needs you. You know what I mean? I'm trying to play the psychology of this thing and for me, what I like to do, I like to dial aggressively. Most people like when you're dialing leads. The goal is what most people say to book appointments. My goal was to get people to pick up because I can't book appoint if I don't get people to pick up. So my deal is let me get as many people to pick up as possible and then when they pick up now I can work because until they answer, I can't do anything.

Listen, it makes sense. Like I get it right? Like you want to people, you just trying to think of things, of ways because you want to be able to get a result, right. But like here's the tcpa. So here's a couple of good sites so you can look at like tcn. Okay. So in the TCPA is like a lot of people will be like, oh, it doesn't have to do with me, it is, it's, it's got a lot to do with you. There's a whole lot of information and you can kind of like you can download it here. So when you triple die you break like the stir shaken stuff, stuff and so which is going to dictate like the health of your phone numbers overall. So the TCPA allows for multiple calls per day. Like they have like an AI driven spam flagging system. What it's doing is it's reading the behavior of each number and if that behavior ticks certain boxes then it's going to go ahead, it's going to start to block and the deliverability is going to go down. So generally speaking you want to sort of max out about three attempts a day, maybe four. And it's not even a fact of like, even if you take compliance out of it, the businesses that are paid to monitor these numbers don't want you doing this. And they're what's going to dictate, dictate whether or not you go through. And then from there you've got like state specific restrictions. And so what you want to do is sort of build a system that is like the most conservative possible because that will allow you to have the highest possible contact rates. Right. That's just kind of how it works. Now these guys aren't doing anything, you know, mean it's just not very well thought through and it's very anecdotal evidency and it's not based on like large swaths of data. And it's like, you know, a lot of the time like they don't say, you know, emergency, but what they're trying to do is trick their client into thinking that there's an emergency. And if you're doing that and if you're doing things specifically to trick people, like with local presence dialing, for example, if the idea is to trick them into thinking that you're somewhere you're not, then it's ID spoofing. And so a lot of the time like the intent of it has a lot to do with it. And then once they get your call records like your kaputs.

So when I have a brand new lead, I'm calling them. If they do not answer the phone, I triple dial them. So I am literally calling them over and over and over again. If they don't answer then then I'm going to triple dial them two more times a day. So in the afternoon and then in the evening, that's my process to get a hold of that. Then I send a text message out if I do not get a hold of them again. So it's a lot of steps to go into them. But obviously if they're answering the phone, I'm saying, hey, this is Jeff. Got your information that came across my desk that you're looking for some help in this area of insurance. And then I'm walking them through the steps. I'm building some trust up with them over the phone as well.

Now mind you, all the stuff that I'm saying with TCPA is assuming that they're opt in leads. If they're not opt in leads, the laws are super stringent. You cannot triple dial. You can't attempt to contact someone who's a non opt in lead 10 times in a day. You can't do it. It's super illegal. And to go on TikTok and brag about it is like the weirdest brag ever because it would take a 10 second cursory Google or ChatGPT check to be like, hey, if I have like an age lead that never opted in for anything specific to me and it was three years ago, can I call them ten times a day? They're going to be like, no mother. That is harassment. It's too much. It also doesn't fucking work. Like you just said, brute forcing your way through everything is dumb, right? A little bit of nuance helps. And I just hate that people teach this stuff because it's just saying this guy.

It's just I have an individual in my office, their only job is leads. They don't take any walk ins, they do no service, they take no phone calls. Our leads process I think is what makes that lead worth buying. We have a 33 touch process in five days. Remember that they've asked for the quote.

It's like, remember they've asked for it. It's like she was wearing a tight dress. It's so fucking crazy to be like, just remember she was asking for it. Your honor, they asked for it. I'm sure he's fucking good at what he does. I have no doubt. But like they need $IO 33 times. It's like go through like reasonable and not excessive is like kind of what the point of this is.

We do a triple dial. You get nine calls a day the first three days. That's 27 calls in the first three days. And then on the fourth and fifth day, we call three more times each. After 33 calls. If they haven't answered the phone, we'll email and text them and say, listen, you haven't answered the phone. You asked for this. We have the quote. When you're ready, give us a call. We're not going to keep looking.

I like that end bit. It's like, hey, if you don't want to do this, it's totally fine. I think one thing that you got to remember is that like, first of all, I can see millions of dials a month on our system. 91% of all successful calls are on the first three dials. And after six dials, it's a 0.05% chance of having a successful outcome for that dial. 05% past six dials, there's no point, like still keep dying people if you want to. But like, statistically there's very little point. 33 is ridiculous. It's to the point of obnoxious. It's because you have a shitty system. You have a shitty phone system that allows you to do stupid things which causes you to be perpetually spam flagged. And then you buy these bullshit number verification things. And so number verification doesn't really do anything. They say it does, but like, if it did, then I would use it. I know that sounds weird, but like, it's just an expense and like there are ways to. It's all about deflagging the number. It doesn't mean you can just do whatever the fuck you want on the number. If that number still acts the same way, it will get flagged again and again and again and again and again, right? And then you have to go through this massive paperwork process, but everything is like super documented for you. So if you are doing shitty practices, it's going to be extra easy to get you fined, right? And then that company had to like vouch for you that's doing the verification. And now you're still doing shitty things. So they're just going to fucking dump you. And then you're just going to get spam flagged anyway. And then you have to get new numbers and then get them verified and it's a whole fucking thing. And that's what they plan on. That's what they do. That's what the business model is. So there are ways to keep your numbers from being spam flagged. If they do get spam flagged, there are ways to, like, organically reduce that flag, which is what we do, but we just try and make sure the numbers behave in the right way and that you don't fucking harass clients. All right, guys, I got to go. Bye.