Sales Management Secrets That Print Revenue

This meeting is being recorded. All right, what's up, Adrian?

Hey, how you doing, Jack?

Can you hear me okay?

Yeah, I can hear you.

Can you hear me?

Please ask because I can't hear you guys. Maybe it's just Adrian. Locky, can you say something? Good evening, gentlemen. That's better. Just unplug my headphones. Should be better. Say something, someone speak to me. Hello? Yep, perfect. Okay, I got you. Uh, nice. I think we've, we've met before, have we?

Who's that?

Sorry, Will, I haven't met you ever.

Hey Jack, no, this is my first one today. I've been watching your videos, so pleasure to meet you.

Oh, awesome, awesome, man. Perfect. So I think the plan for today, because Adrian has asked in the week, uh, you asked 2 weeks ago but you weren't here in the last one, is to review a call for you for probably around half the call. Alright? So I want to make that, at least 50% of this call is reviewing. That way we get some value because you've been here for a while, you've been asking, right? But, so that people can, if people need to bounce and just have a couple questions, we're going to do the questions first and then we'll get into it. But I don't want that to last any more than 20 minutes. So if it's just you two guys otherwise, and you're probably getting 10 minutes of a question, to really break something down and then we'll bang in Adrian's call. Cool. So perfect. Why don't you go ahead, Will? Do you have a question or anything?

Yeah. So I'm just starting on an offer. I'm relatively new to the high ticket space. I've been working in sales 15 years for a private equity company, corporate, what have you. I've gone through Jeremy Miner's Inner Circle a couple of years ago, so got my scripts, everything sorted. So it's really just possibly take advice on how the script works best for the offer that I'm joining. Yeah, um, to make sure I can get excited. The offer seems really good, seems quite stable. We've got quite a good sharp rate of 65 to 70%. Nice. Um, I've had, I've had 5 calls, I've closed one and got another one where I'm taking a payment this afternoon. Um, so it was just to run through maybe what I'm doing. I kind of want to become a regular to these classes. So this current situation.

Okay.

And in terms of the sales team at the moment, is there already someone who's performing at what would be considered a gold standard who's doing very well?

They're doing all right. Yeah, they're doing pretty good. They're making $10,000 to $12,000 a month.

Okay. Well, I would just, yeah, like in terms of if their close rate is high and they've kind of got a model for Gold Standard, I would be looking at, and we can have a look at your script, but I'd be having a look at their script and just understanding that it's probably been validated over time for a reason. And it's, it's not so much the tactical things, like the little ways that questions are asked. Sure, there's some of those that are important depending on the offer. Like if it's like, but if it's your standard fitness or biz op, then most scripts that are half decent and worth their salt are going to work from a tactical level, like the little questions, but the bigger issue where you run into big problems. It doesn't— we have small data. We can't tell now from 5 calls, but if just there's misalignment where it's trying to be, for example, too, like, too emotional of a call with an unsophisticated buyer in the script where they're getting all this pain when the prospects potentially, if you're selling something above, say, $10K, $15K, $20K, and you're dealing with a more sophisticated buyer who just has unfulfilled desire where they're like already doing kind of well on average and you're trying to— and what your offer does is take them to excellent. If the script is like fundamentally going for the wrong type of buyer, that's where you see big issues and it never works no matter how well you ask a question. But if it's just a matter of tailoring in and your script looks a lot like the guy who's doing really well or process is doing really well, then it's just a matter of tailoring at sort of the minor level and a few things. So let me send the link to your, in the chat to your script and we'll have a look and we'll just see how aligned it is. And then I also need to know, what it is you sell.

Yeah, of course, of course. So actually, I've got it on a link, I've got an email, but I'll pop it in and paste it for you. All right, this, um, so it's a trading offer. Yeah, where we help. Um, and what you just mentioned then about, um, sophisticated buyers and unsophisticated, whereas I say I know and feel more comfortable with the Jeremy Minor approach of what you probably, you know, go through problem awareness at the start. One of the things after watching more of the videos recently, and Matt Ryder's approach is kind of going for, cool, what are you doing at the moment, what are you doing to get better, And that's right. Leading them into, well, that's rationale.

That's what we do. So I have a private coaching client who's at Goat Academy. He's the, he's gone from 8th to 2nd place. They do about a million, $1.2 million a month. They're very, they're very, they're like $12K up to upwards of $12K their offer. And they have, but they have a mixture of unsophisticated, sophisticated. And then probably got 3 other clients in different. Hey, Peter.

Peter.

Yeah.

So Peter's, Peter's in that. And then I've dealt with, obviously I've had a bunch of other clients and management clients and coaching clients for trading. I actually did my last done-for-you client was a trading offer and it was more zero to one, people in pain getting out of pain. And it's just a little different. But I, no matter what we, what we sell, that's a universal thing that I advocate for as well as Matt is that it's not so much, especially this is the issue Peter had that's now unlocked it for him, is that we were going too much at the tactical nature of their, their current problem. Like they their, their trading strategy, like what they're doing now, as, as a means to try to sort of bring to light that it's not good enough in all these details. But at the end of the day, like, what we've realized works way better, and we did that from identifying from Gold Standard, is that they go into the call, okay, connection of what, what brought you to Felix, the founder, right? Get goal, connect, like, you know, in what you would call connecting still, but get goal, head into situation, which is specifically not like, oh, you know, kind of what are you doing at the moment for work, whatever. It's like, what are you doing to achieve that? Because you got their goal. Just making sure there's some intent behind it. I think that's what Matt Ryder talks about as well. It's just, you know, just going, okay, that's your goal. Oh, by the way, anyway, like, what are you doing for work? It's like, okay, what are you ultimately doing? And if it does talk about work, it's because it's the income source to get to the goal, which will lead us to that it's not working. Right? But we're not gonna go in and say, like, oh, walk me through what's your stop loss right now and, and like, okay, that's not working. And once they kind of admit— this is something Matt talks about as well. I saw Dyla with Matt as well. It's like pretty quickly we've established that if you have a goal and you're still trying to do something to get there, it's probably not working. So we want to talk about, okay, what are you doing to solve the problem?

It's good you said that because a lot of it is what almost kind of what are you doing at the moment from a trading point of view and what have you done to get better?

Yes.

The thing that we do is so it's a $7,500 Option 1, where you get the founders kind of WhatsApp or $6,000, which is you don't get the one-to-one with him, but everything else in the program. So it's a year long, you get a— it's an algorithm for trading so you can get, you know, more consistent repeatable returns.

And sure, so it's just creating a logical stream of acceptances in the call. This is something Matt Ryder talks about. No, few other people at all talk about it. I do. It's just that you want to create a narrative that ties the current problem to the solution. So if you know that you sell— like, for trading, for most of the trading clients I've had, the narrative you want to create on the call or get clear on the call is that all the people that get results with trading have a coach, right? Or they have a great strategy, and, and then the coach is a sort of a mechanism just to make sure that they get a great strategy, right? Because, for example, once you head out of problem awareness or Or you in the stage where you're talking about what have you done in the past to actually fix it or to solve the problem? If they go, well, I just think it was I had a really bad mindset. A lot of salespeople won't see that as an issue. They'll be like, oh, okay, well, he's maybe we can give him a better mindset. But they oftentimes see they can pretty much DIY with that. Do it yourself with a mindset. What you want to bring around is an example, just as a tactical example, is you would say, okay, help me understand if you had such a good strategy, and you had the algorithm, an algorithm providing you with the right plays? Like, what would it matter how you felt that day in terms of your mindset? And the person's like, oh yeah, I guess I wouldn't. I guess I would— I just— I, yeah, I don't have a good strategy. I don't know what I'm doing. And you go, okay, that, that makes sense. And I guess, like, what do you feel like you need ultimately if you're just like— let's say you, the founder, and I sat down and really mapped out the perfect strategy. For you to actually, you know, go from sort of where you are now at the $3,000 you've made in the last 12 months to, you know, you said you wanted to ultimately replace at least half your income. So getting to the $50,000 in the next 12 months, like what type of, I guess, training and support do you feel like you'd actually need to get there? And then they're going to start like, now you've built a bit of a gap where they have awareness that like, it's my strategy. You've seeded the idea in the narrative. That's what you want to kind of get in. And if you ever watch Matt's calls, he does it all the time. It's just ninja. Most people don't notice it when he's— if you ever watch that Indian objection handling one where the guy's like randomly talking, he goes, yeah, it just goes back to that point about when you're a salesperson, right? About congruence between speech and action. Like in order for us to get our prospects to commit, we have to, you know, commit to ourselves, right? And like, you know, ultimately I'm assuming you want to be the top rep at your account, right? And the guy's like, yeah, he's like, obviously like I think we all know that the best reps have like a coach, you know, and then the guy's like buying it hard. He's like, okay, okay, moving on. What do you feel like you need? And the guy's like, yeah, I need someone to review my calls. He's like seeded it already. So it's just something that you want to notice. We'll look at your script, but something from a, I think those big pillars you're picking up on from Matt Ryder is like the direction of how we deal with problem is like, okay, what are you kind of doing to get better? And then we're going to kind of get to a point where it's, oh, it looks like I mean, it's not, it looks like maybe it's not working. Why do you feel that is? And you want to sort of see where your angle is. It doesn't want to be pasted in there, but you can see how you can sort of inform the prospect where you're like, okay, and do you have, like, I guess, do you have a certain strategy where you come in in the day and you sort of know ultimately what you want to do and when to, I guess, when to stop loss? Like, you know what I mean? And the person's like, yeah, but I don't know, not really. You go, oh, why is that? And they're like, yeah, I just don't have like, I just don't have anyone telling me. Yeah. Okay. And do you feel like if you ultimately, you had, I guess, like a sort of a more certain strategy from ultimately from people that have gotten results like year after year in the markets, not just a great year like everyone did last year, like, like 10 years in the markets, do you feel like ultimately that would probably help you actually solve some of the problems of the past? And the person's like, yeah, it would. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And you're just like, seething the idea. Does that make sense? So this is a big thing in trading is that you need to know the narrative that you're trying to build on the call and having a very siloed agenda, but the prospect doesn't feel it. You don't wanna go, oh yeah. And you jump on the call and you're like, oh yeah, you gotta have a good, like, obviously you're not gonna just like slap it in there. You gotta find where you can have it. And it really mostly comes when they've already laid out some kind of deficiency where they're like, Yeah, I'm just not really sure, you know, that could— Matt Ryder's a bit more heavy style. He's like, well, that could be a problem. And then the person's like, oh, why is that? He's like, well, you know, ultimately, as, as we all know, and then you just like start putting in a frame, or you'll put a story. You go, can I share a perspective on that? And the guy be like, yeah. He's like, I used to be a fat kid, and ultimately it was purely because I just didn't know how to eat healthy. There was nothing wrong with my mindset, right? Like, I just didn't know what healthy was. So ultimately, I feel like when, as soon as someone actually could show me, like, you know, this is what you have to eat and this is what you don't, it was pretty straightforward from that point. Like, I've never had a problem doing what I need to do. I just needed to know. Does that kind of make sense? And the guy's like, yeah, actually, yeah, I feel like if I had the trading strategy, I had the fitness coach, and then they just, it just starts seeding it. So that's the big pillars. We'll look at the script, but you just want to look at standard. They're not that different. Like, Matt's style and the raw, like, the pure Jeremy in EPQ, is like connecting goal, situation, what are you doing to solve the problem slash get better? Oh, okay. How's that going for you? It's like I probably not got them there. That's why you hit a rationale question. You go, well, just so I can see the rationale behind why you might be looking for maybe more, I guess, like more of a strategy and professional help. Why not just keep sort of, you know, keep doing what you're doing with the XYZ DIY, like the way they say it. Custom, like, why not just do that? And then they'll just lay down on it. They'll go, oh, because it's, I just don't have much certainty of it. Like, I don't know, or whatever it is. Or if they're doing a $200 a month Discord group, you know, you just go, oh, like, why not just sort of, I guess, be more involved in the Discord group? And they're like, well, because no one's getting results that I can see in that. I don't even know if the coaches are like actually getting like real results. You're like, oh, alright. Okay. And then you can go into ideal criteria. If you wanna go really low friction, you you just go straight into ideal criteria where you go, what do you feel like you do need then? My style, if you ever watch the Navidah review, the $88K a month review, we do, we do objection finding. It's on my YouTube. It's objection finding, which is like, okay, well, have since, like, I guess with that awareness that, you know, you feel like the Discord group's not gonna work for you and you ultimately, because you need this and it doesn't have it. With that in mind, have you been out there looking for ways to actually get some outside help with a process and a plan? And then the person's like, no. Why is that? Oh, I just thought everything was a scam. Objection finding. Now you're gonna start solving, pre-handling objections. Or they go, well, I just didn't know. Like, oh, why is that? And they go, I don't know. I just thought it was a scam. And so you can address it and go, okay, well, ultimately, once they agree that it was probably a poor mindset, you can go, what have you lost? In the last 6 months by not addressing what is a reasonable concern that there are plenty of scammers out there, as we've, as we've become aware that there are coaches that do help their clients, right? So what have you lost by not identifying a coach you can trust and ultimately, you know, getting the help? And he's like, well, I guess, like, I've lost a lot of time. You go, okay, well, you know, can I make a suggestion to you? Go ahead. Well, the time's passed regardless. Right? It's like, what would you have earned potentially in that time if you got the help? He's like, well, maybe $20,000. So, okay, so $20,000. And what will you continue to lose if you don't get that outside help with a personal plan from someone you can trust? And see what I'm doing here and then what type of mindset shift you need to have moving forward. But what I'm doing here, last piece, is that I'm addressing the customer at the stage of awareness. I'm not saying, what will you lose if you don't work with us? Yeah, I'm just saying, what will you lose if you don't change that mindset and get whatever we agree is what you need, which is like a coach or wherever they're at? So I'm addressing them at their level of awareness. Only, only the very next pillar for the phase is, what do you feel like you need from us to get there? And then they start buying into us. But we have to get them— the reason why I do objection finding is because we have to get them bought in on coaching. Before we go in and get them bought in on your offer. And then, and then, and, and sort of that, and then, then you hit the thesis, uh, in the presentation, right? So, uh, let me see real quick. We'll finish it off. Uh, just send me the script. I just wanna have a quick look.

Yeah.

Um, I'll copy and paste over to you, but Matt Ryder.

Okay, cool. Um, but does that, that kind of answer, do you have, do, if you don't wanna show me your script, you don't have to. Does that kind of give you a bit more clarity?

Yeah, it does actually. Yeah. So the key things actually that I was looking for today, this has been great about identity setting.

Okay. Yeah.

A bit of the challenges I've had is when you get into solution awareness is kind of like looking to the goal. That's the idea, right?

Cool.

How can we help you with it? You know, so they get them viewing into their criteria.

Yeah.

So that's it. The one thing that I found as well from the, again, limited calls that I've had, they— I'm not saying they've been all over the place, but with the scripts that I've got in my head that I've been jumping around and kind of don't— I don't want to go with like the Josh Lyons idea of like kind of scriptless selling, but the idea of just having a conversation and actually— and then so trying to tick off all the, the stops, but okay, maybe going a bit back and forth, you know, where the conversation is going with us.

Yes, the problem with using multiple scripts, I was just saying, yeah, the scriptless thing is for like when you're dialed, unless you really sort of take so much time to learn it and depending on your learning ability. But especially when you— I used a script for a long time. And it got to the point now I just couldn't use one. It would actually, like, hurt me. But I got to that point naturally. I would just say the issue with using multiple scripts is you lose the uniformity potentially. Like, they may work, but depending how divergent they are in who they're speaking to and why we get things, it can be an issue. My emotion, the emotional pattern that I like to keep uniform with your demographic is in simple plain English. You come on the call, you disarm sales resistance so that really anything can be trusted, so that it calms them down. We get the goal. The reason we get the goal first from a high level, it doesn't, I don't try to choke and loop and say, what's the emotional goal though? And like everyone comes to us to make more money. Like I just let them say what they want to say. Typically, it goes well if you ask a good goal question. Like, you just go, okay, what, so what is it you're hoping to really get from the call today with potential outside help, whatever you say, right? You get a goal from a high level. From there, what are you doing right now to get there? The situation is off the back of the goal, so it relates. Every phase is related. They're not unrelated, and they, they make sense being in that order. What are you looking to get? Okay. It seems like if, as long as it's not a trash answer, it's like, it's not a story like, well, everyone wants to make more money. You say, what do you, what's your goal? So you get an internal goal. From there, what are you doing now to get there? And then you can either ask the two truths, like, do you like, if you do the full on an EPQ, do you like? Okay, cool. Cool. If you don't ask that, I don't use it either, but you just say, okay, how's that going? Asking details about it. Right? And what I tend to do is I ultimately— the rationale is a backstop. If they don't lay down on problem, on it being deficient, the rationale is there as a backstop to get them to basically say it is. And I go, just so I can see the rationale behind why you might be looking for outside help, why not just do that? Why not just do that? And then they'll say, well, the problems are this. They'll lay down on it. And then I win the— I win not trying to have a heavy agenda of like just crushing what's the main problem you're having right now. I just get it naturally, either in the conversation, that's why they're here, or the rationale will pull it out. And no one ever says, oh yeah, okay, I'm gonna DIY, see ya. I've never had it once in my whole life. Uh, and then from there, okay, we've established the problem. Now what I like to do from that is get the goal again, which is success metrics, right? Is I go, okay, it's like second loop without choking at the top of the call. So I go, okay, let's just establish some success metrics for you. Like, What do you feel like you need to be earning with trading specifically? So ultimately, you know, you can get goal they said they wanted before. And then so you can spend more time and not work 9 to 5, whatever it is. Okay. And they say that and I go, okay, how much do you make now? And they're like, okay, I just don't say, if you don't mind me asking, I just say, how much do you make now? Straight off the back of it. Like just quick when they, as soon as they answer what they want. How much do you make now? Like 5K. Okay. So if we do the math on that, that's like you want to 3x your income. I like to do that, right? The reason why we do that, I go a bit further. I get how many hours they work a week so I can actually go, you're actually 5xing your hourly rate, but you can just get 3x in your income. And then what, why this, why we do this here is because I'm about to go into objection finding, which is okay, before me, were you looking for ways to actually, you know, get better skills and get a better strategy so that you can hit goal? Money goal and goal they said in the top. And then they'll tell you, and what we've done is by getting success metrics just then of like the $30K a month, a $200 a month Discord clearly will like look like it doesn't cut it.

Yeah.

So it's like, okay, well, ultimately, were there other people in that community making the $30K a month? And if they say yeah, then you go, okay, what held you back from getting those results? And they might come up with some limiting belief, like they had more money to play with, you know. Okay, ultimately, if you identified that— if, if you identified ultimately that, like, you know, uh, everyone that was getting results at the level you were looking for had more money, what did you do to address that? And I suppose pivot to a model within trading that you could get to $20K, $50K a month with the, with the capital that you had. Like, I didn't do anything. Done. And you're like, what have you lost?

What will you lose?

As soon as they kind of admit it, but you're not looking to choke too much. It's collaborative. And then from there, we've agreed these are what we've got is the first objective of the whole sales call done is an admittance of a problem that they can't solve on their own or as good as you. That's the first thing we need to do is create some kind of unfulfilled desire or pain depending on the sophistication. And then from there, we go to ideal criteria and then whether you do North Star or not. I get all their dreams, goals, and then you can hit COI. If you hit COI and then you pitch, but that's that. Okay.

I appreciate that.

I'll put my, put the script in the chat. If I get one last question, if that's right. And sorry, Lachlan, I know you're—

Real quick, go ahead.

The success I've had, I've noticed, is they kind of give me a lot of problems straight away. Oh, well, actually, at the moment I'm doing everything manually. It's taking a lot of time and I'm not pretty much—

Perfect. Lay down. Sweet.

Because it's rolling and it's kind of almost just rolling.

Yeah.

The way I look at, the way I look at a script is I'm, if I'm doing it right, I'm going, fuck, and I'm skipping questions because they're already saying everything. I don't repeat shit.

Cool.

But what I like is just to make sure is depending on how open your connecting question is, if you get a ton of this big story with, I want this, I'm right here right now and this is my problem, you just, that's why you want a verbal cue when they're speaking. I don't go completely quiet. I like to go, right? So that if I need to go, oh, how's that? I go, in what way? Like, I'll just, I interject like Matt does. I go, oh, why is that? If I need to stop them there, because I know the 80/20 of like what they're saying is right there and they're going to talk themselves out of it or talk about something else. So I just know, okay, goal, he said a goal, he said situation, okay, there's problem, or he looks like he's talking his way out, he's talking back to what he wants. Oh, okay. And I guess like, uh, when you said, uh, constrained, like in, in, in what— sorry, in what way? And the person's like, well, and then you get a bit more of the problem you wanted, and you go, oh, okay, that makes sense. And then you can go to your next thing. Cool. So you kinda just need to make sure it's a great thing if people are laying down problems straight off the call. I would just say if they, all they are doing is saying problem, then you probably wanna go, okay, just for context, like, where, what are you actually looking to achieve? Because we do need a problem is only a problem in context to how different it is to the goal. So I kinda probably wanna loop on that and then I'm happy. I don't need to know so much about whether you have a green trading or a blue trading fucking screen or any of these details. I don't, I'm not gonna need to like ask about that. That's all just, I'm just filtering out that when they're talking. I'm just like, my main things, did I get goal? Did I get problem? Oh, I just got problem? Ask goal. Got everything I need. Move on. Does that make sense? So I don't need to get stuck in the script. Okay? Good stuff. I wish I could, I wish I could go deeper into it because it is a fantastic question. Alright. Big Locky, go ahead.

A lot of value in there. So just for context, Jack, I've been applying for a few of those roles that you forwarded from Better Fortnightly as well, leaving that marketing one. Like you said, gotta put food on the table. Currently on a solar offer at the moment. I'm not sure if you've had much experience with like solar or more like the done-for-you stuff. Biggest—

Well, I do done-for-you services myself, but I haven't sold solar as a rep.

Yeah, so that's what I meant. So the biggest issue I'm having at the moment, like you're from Australia, typically biggest thing I'm issuing is like, look, I just look, we're gonna get a quote from a different one. Got a few quotes here, just wanna know what you've got. Just like price shopping around. Government rebates play a bit of a factor in.

Yes. Yeah.

You mentioned before, to be a bit more of a sophisticated buyer, cause a higher ticket price.

Yeah.

Big investment at home.

Yeah.

I'm looking in 2 ways. I'm finding most calls end up in follow-up, and then it's also how to follow up correctly. And then also just, I don't know if justify would be the right word I'd use, but helping to sell the fact like, okay, we're more expensive than most other quotes.

Yes, that's what Dialer is. Same thing. It's the best. I like selling things more expensive than the competitor. It's way better sale. Otherwise, yeah, just for many reasons. But have you seen the Dialer demo that I did?

Yeah, I'll watch that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. What I would be looking at is how to print it probably maybe quite abstractly, maybe exactly like it, maybe not. I would be looking to follow the principles of that if I was selling solar is that if I know that I'm going on to these calls and these people are coming at the end of the call, almost all of them at scale are saying, I'm gonna chop around. Then fun, and you're dealing with sophisticated person, ding ding, fundamentally the device that you need to win on is superiority of the offer or the mechanism and the way that you do that. So you need to create superiority in your explanation and, and you do that from two prongs. One is obviously the superiority of the offer by explaining why the status quo doesn't work as well or isn't as beneficial long term, whatever it is. And if it's not cheaper, there's only, if there's, there's 3 things with every product, fast, easy, and cheap, but you can only have 2. So if everything else they're doing is cheaper, then yours is faster and easier. So you have those 2, you know. So what you'll do in your explanation, like I do on the demo call, is like, like connection. Hey man, what's up? Alright. Um, also what's brought you to the call? If it's remote, like what's brought you to the call? These things. Right? You can maybe ask a few situation questions. Like, you hear me on the demo call, I'm like, okay, uh, what I know— ask one question. I just go, what dialer do you use now? Right? So if they're not existingly— if they're not having solar now, then you may want to just confirm. Just go, okay, like, what, are you fully, um, connected to the grid? Or whatever your connecting question is. Like, are you getting— are you already in solar? I'm already— I'm on— I'm completely connected to the grid. Okay. That makes sense. Personally, what I do, if it's a demo and a lot of these deals are gonna come through with follow-up, that's fine. They just come through because you're better. Is, it depends. Maybe you can one-call close. We just need to see how deficient that is. But what you do is go straight into old way, old result, new way, new result. You start to go just for context, would you like to lay out what we do? Well, okay. And you just don't bore them. They actually want it. They make their own bed wanting the fucking pitch. But you do, you met, you fucking, you, they made their bed. They want the pitch? Cool. I'm gonna tell you why you're, you're doing it to shop around. I'm gonna make you not wanna shop around. Yeah. You go, so the issue with most solar companies is current approach, old way. And the problem with that is consequences. So what we do instead is new way. And the reason why we do that is the result. And you go into like a, it's much longer drawn out than that. It might be a couple minutes. For each thing, right? And, and because a lot of the time with, uh, B2B guys go wrong is they assume it's something like B2C where they need to go into all this detail, but you're not actually going into all that detail with B2C prospects to actually know it because you're not going to change the product. It's a course, it's the same thing, but it makes them feel like it's custom and like you're converting them and there's some friction, but But B2B, unless you have one of these enterprise softwares where it's like custom workflows, we need to know what you're doing to see if this niche product can work for you. If solar doesn't have that many conditions that make it a DQ, then you don't need to do all this discovery. You don't need to do all this detailed discovery. You just go, okay, what are you looking for? What's potentially got you looking to, I guess, like lower your rates, not look into solar? Lower your rates. That's what they want. What's potentially you're looking to like lower your energy rates? And the person's like, well, these things, right? And you go, okay. And you could potentially ask if you know all these people are getting competitors, okay, what have you been doing now to actually ultimately lower your rates? Just so I understand. But I wouldn't even probably do that. I would just go, okay, would you like to lay out like for context just from a high level? You do this a lot of time with very high-end B2B. Just go, you just give them a quick mini pitch. You just go from a high level, these things, because if everyone's the same, like on dialer, like everyone's the same, they're all the same. They all just have a low pickup rate. Does it matter if some of them are double dialing and some of them are triple dialing and some of them are not and some using GHL? They all think that it matters. They go, oh, I'm using GHL. I'm like, Twilio. It's all Twilio. It's all the same. It doesn't matter. So I would just say, um, you, you do that, you do the mini pitch, you'll see how glad people are with you. A lot of reps are just completely scared of pitching early because they think the prospect's gonna kind of go, cheers. Shopping around. But if you have a killer old way, old resort, new way, new resort pitch, right? And you sound nonchalant and professional about it, you go and you just get straight into it and you lay it out. You go, does that make sense? And you just, in that, in that pitch, you just sound like you know fucking everything about solar, right? And you just know what the other approaches they're gonna go for. And you put in, you seed, just like I said with Will, you seed in the pillars why the cheap options don't work. Yeah. Most people out there trying to go for solar, they go for fundamentally the most discounted approach. And the problem with that is it causes these problems, right? Because at the fundamental level, you don't, you don't say the new way is ours is more expensive. You go, because the problem with the cheap approaches is it has these mechanistic problems. Like, it causes this breakage and that, and then this breaks and fries, and you don't actually get much meters on the dollar because fundamentally the tech is wrong in this way. So what we do instead is our tech is this and it causes this benefit and this benefit and this benefit, right?

Yeah.

You explain, oh, and then it, it sells them away from looking at cheap as actually cheap because you end up paying more in the long run, whatever it is.

Yeah.

And once you get to the end of that, you know, does that make sense? And then you can do what I would do personally. Once you've sold them on this, on the thesis of how you solve it at the end, I like to then go, I used to do this before the pitch, but it doesn't work. I learned to do it after is then you can do a screen share or whatever of the numbers if you have a calculator because now they just need to justify it. Or if you have some kind of demo, you can do a demo, but it's not software. It's pretty straightforward. If you need to do a demo, you can. That's in before this, but you pretty much go straight into the numbers and you show the two next to it, which is like status quo. Or then if you need to sell them on the idea of using solar, that's different from selling them on going with you. It's different awareness. You need to work out if they're, if your target market is like not even knowing if they want to do solar, which is more cold, then you need to sell them on, uh, normally green, like fucking normal energy and solar. If you, if you know that all these people are like pretty cooked and they're like, they're just like ready to go and they're just like picking, they're right at the, at most aware. That's where I would have status quo pricing our pricing and maybe yours is more expensive, but in the end you do like a 2-year fucking thing and it shows how much more you get back. Whatever you make, your offer is more superior. Does that make sense? Basically it's cool. Now, if you were, are you supposed to close them on the call? Is that the goal?

Yeah, typically these are all phone calls. So a lot of the time, the main issue I've had is like all the products, because everyone retails the same product the same, it's more just the actual company differentiators.

Whatever that is, like, it all comes down, they don't get the company, they get the product. So it's like whatever superiority that greater company does is at the end user level for the customer with their service.

Yeah.

Whether it's like the service in the box is the same as everyone else, but the service is better. You want to seed that narrative in your demo pitch. And then if you're only on the phone, you say you're only on the phone, you're not on Zoom?

Yeah. All, pretty much all phone based. No Zoom or video.

You can, you can just cut away the calculator side by side if they can't see it, or you can explain it. You go, typically what this runs is this and it causes that. Like, it runs at this price for most people and then it breaks down here. Ours, it's this. It's, it's not cheap. That's what I say with Dialer. I always go, I go, our phone numbers, most phone numbers on Twilio are $1.50. Dialer is 9x more expensive. I go, it's, I go, Dialer is not cheap. The phone numbers are $9. And the reason for that is that they're actually tier 1 numbers, but I don't even need to tell them what the benefit of tier 1 numbers is because I just did it in my demo telling you why tier 3 numbers cause you to never get any pickups. And so you're already cooked. So I'm like, okay, so you get tier 1 phone numbers. They're not cheap. They're $9 and they come with full spam monitoring and rotation. Because you know how I said before that if you're dialing 100 people in one day with one phone number, you're gonna go straight to spam. Well, what we do instead is we provide you with 3 phone numbers on auto rotation, right? And if you call the same prospects back, yes, that old phone number that called them will be the same one that calls to increase the pickup rate and ultimately so your phone numbers don't go in spam. So they're $9. They're not cheap, but typically clients don't need to keep recycling them like you do every month, buying a new phone number for your reps. And the guy's like, fuck. And you just sold him on this new way. So you kind of need to convert them with tons of matter-of-fact conviction why paying more is actually paying less. And then at the end, what I do from there is I go, cool. And I make it quite clear.

I go, cool.

Sweet. What do you, do you feel like that would work for you? I just like don't think, I was like, do you feel like that would work? And they're like, yeah, every single person, this is crazy because Matt's product is sick. It's like 90% close rate. I'm just like, yep.

Yep.

What do you think? And they go, okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And then what I, once I get, I'm not asking if you would buy now and asking if you think it's good, if you would do it.

Yeah.

Right. And then once they say yes, I choose to, because it's a demo, Matt taught us, we tried to do the one call close thing. It works way better this way. With follow-up is that you go, okay, cool. Typically what we do in this situation is we go away, book a call from here, and then on the next call, a little bit of a longer call, it's like 30 minutes, we just present the proposal to you and then we discuss next steps and we do a second call. If you don't do that, if you're gonna try to close on the first call, then what you can do is you can either try to get them to commit, right? Leverage incentive-based pricing depending what your offer can do. If, if you just have no tools in your arsenal, and there's no actual incentive for them to buy there and then on the call. You can try with a superior call, but it helps if you have levers from the offer. And then you close them in follow-up. And what you do is you go, you either send over a proposal, you lead the proposal though, but you have to get conditions of satisfaction. And then I'm gonna review Adrian's call. You have to go, okay, at the end of the call, you say, sweet. So what are your thoughts on this? Okay. Typically what we do in this situation is to get this set up, we do these things. How do you want to proceed? And if they're like, no, you obviously make sure that you go, do you feel like it's gonna work for you? If they ultimately like, I'm gonna shop around for other pricing, then you can do it. Okay. Ultimately, is it more important for you to get the money to make the money in the short term, save $100 in your first month, or ultimately save $50,000 over the next 5 years? Just so I understand. That's what I would do. Ultimately, because it's like whether or not you want the quick money, which typically doesn't lead people the right way. Not to mention that we're not just trying to save money here. We're looking at solar. So do you want the better service? Right? And then you kind of get that. And you get at the end of the day, but what I like to do is I'm not intending to close with these B2B deals. I'm not trying to close you from objection handling. I just like to make your objection look stupid. I'm just like, do you ultimately want to do that? And I'm like, I get it. At the end of the day, potentially you want to look out there. Like, obviously I can sit here and say that no one will, but you probably want to look around and see if you can get the same service for less. Is that right? And the person's like, yeah. I'm like, no problem. Let's play pretend for a second and say you go out there and you look for that and you ultimately identify because ultimately you want to get results in the long term as well as seeing if you can save money in the short term. If, let's say you go out there and you identify that, you know, there isn't any other companies that provide the service that you feel like it's gonna work for you like we discussed that is cheaper, what would you do from that point? And they're gonna go, oh, I would wanna buy from you. Not a problem. And then when are you gonna speak to those companies? Just so I understand. Over the next week. Not a problem. I can mark that in my diary and then provide the support to you in the meantime and provide you the, what we discussed today. Would that help you? Yes. Then I'm going to relentlessly fucking follow up forever with you until you decide what you said. Like, you said you were gonna find something good cheaper. And if they say, yeah, we went with this company, I'm like, they're not. If you want shit, you can start dealing with it in email. These people close over a week. And if you have the power, what Matt does to make it so much easier is if you move forward within the first 7 days of the first call, you can waive like 25% off some of the buildout or any fees. Your company should be doing that. Waiving some, you just increase the fee and then just waive it. You just have some fee that's usually $1,000, it's $2,000, you waive the fucking fee. If you move forward in 7 days and incentivizes them to get their act together. And then they'll close on things. So they do save some short-term money.

Yep.

That's the whole fucking game. Cool. Yeah. There we go.

Send them over when you're finished.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I'm gonna do, Adrian, do you have to jump on a sales call straight after this, Adrian?

No, not straight after.

Okay, cool. I'll do a, because we only have 20 minutes, I'll do at least 30 minutes with you because we're gonna do 30 minutes. So I'll do, I'll stay 10 minutes after. All right.

Yeah, that'll be cool.

Yeah, because I just kind of dragged that out, uh, because there was such good questions from everyone.

Oh yeah, no, listen, man, like, you crushed it.

Me?

Yeah, appreciate it. Oh my God, you killed both of those, uh, questions for sure. And this might, like, the actual call might actually help Will. Um, I can't remember if this person already did trading, but it's a trading offer and it would speak to exactly what you were telling them.

Perfect, let's do it. It'll give me a chance to play out some, uh, practical of what He's talking about— so is that in WhatsApp or Slack or Zoom? And what are we talking about?

Yep, it's in Zoom.

All right, give me a minute. I'm just gonna go bathroom and then— ah, there it is.

Cool.

I'm just gonna go bathroom, guys. Take 1 minute and then I'll be back.

Masha, you said like you're doing B2B solar.

What was that? Sorry.

You doing B2B solar?

B2C, it's more battery installs. So B2C solar and battery.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I thought I misheard you. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think, I think Jack might have said something about B2B, but the principles are pretty similar.

You just want to, yeah, bro. Like I just heard that as I was coming back. You just want to create mad superiority because I had this with a buyer's agency client and the perception in the industry that is that it is all the same because they all get qualified by that buyer's agency training. Um, even Henderson got trained by them. Like, it's everyone's— yeah, that one. Everyone gets trained by them, and like, they are— and then you hear the pitch and they're like, oh, and it's like everyone does the same. And the prospects come on the call with this narrative that like, well, everything's gone up since COVID They have some fundamental beliefs that like they like to just sort of dismantle the authority of the buyer's agent, say you're like everyone else. They try to commoditize you a bit. So big, big narrative that Chase does so well managing that account. Now, uh, he's a top closer I worked with, and I manage— I, I work with the, the team with consulting as well. And Chase, just a killer at coaching the setters and reps from the start in understanding that there's a few key things. One is that, uh, the set— the people need to have frame and just grounded in, just infinite conviction in that they are the expert. And then what they do is better. And the way that Chase does it so well in many senses is he creates great connection to make it feel custom, right? There's a bit more discovery, but also the presentation and the way that he just, he just, it's, it's the presentation is just one device in of many in the call to display superiority. I don't know if Chase's offer is cheaper, but it's not cheap and they have no problem. They're at $1 million a month. There's definitely cheaper. There's 100% cheaper and you don't wanna do a race to the bottom. So I'd 100% choose any closer making bank. And I have a lot of closers making quite a bit of money and none of them sell cheap stuff. So I'd say it's a great thing that it's expensive. Run it. It's premium, you know, and just like, just effectively dismantle it by going— most people out there trying to get into trading, they're using essentially something like YouTube University or they're moving back and forth between strategies. And the problem with that is that it doesn't have consistency. So even if there was an interest going into this story, and this consequence, you know what I mean? You go into it and you go, so what we do instead is we do fundamental foundation redesign from the beginning, right? And then you just go into why they need that and why it will benefit them if it was trading. And it just sells them on what is the objective of the presentation, which is the simultaneous explanation of why what they've tried in the past hasn't worked and why this will be different. And it doesn't really matter even if they haven't done it yet. Even if they haven't done the DIY, it's when you say most people out there trying to achieve X, they're making these mistakes. It may not even be what they've done yet, but it is what they will do if they do what you think will be the DIY, which is YouTube University. You know, you need to know how to dismantle it in their minds. They're like, fuck yeah, I was gonna do that. Oh yeah, that's not gonna work. Oh yeah. Okay. Well, that makes sense. I'd rather spend the money and save the pain and they're saying all this in their head when you're pitching in this manner. But most people pitch and they just pitch features. They're like, oh yeah, we're gonna give you that and that. So you get this, this, this, this, and this. And it just doesn't have much of a, a narrative, a semblance, like it's not very uniform with their, how they're feeling. It needs to address their current approach and the problems that will happen or have happened already. And that will create resonance. And all sales are based on resonance, right? Cool. Let's get into the review. So, um, I was instinct. I've literally done 150 core reviews in the last like 4 months. And literally, as I looked at your Fathom, I went Command+Space to hit Loom because I do them all on— I Loom them all. And I just went to hit Loom. I'm like, I'm not going to Loom it. It's already on Fathom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not sure like where you want to start.

Wherever you said last time.

So I don't know where, um, like the most value would be, right? Like the top of call is kind of like everybody knows discovery, but you can actually, if you wanted to jump right into say like the gap, because the gap might, you know, give the most value to like everybody else.

That said, like I'll say this, every single client I bring on one-on-one, I always do the discovery and even the top guys are losing, losing shit. And it's not necessarily the very top. It's like probably a couple minutes in. All right, let's play it on two speed. Let's rip it and I'll try and move through it.

It sounds pretty good.

Hey, what's going on, brother?

Yeah, I can hear you, bro.

Go for it. I can hear you, but I can't see you.

Yeah, I see that. There you go.

Is that how you pronounce your name?

Yes.

Yeah.

Ah, gotcha.

Okay. How you doing today? Good. How you doing, brother? I'm trying to stay out of trouble. What'd I say?

Right.

Aren't we all? We are. Well, I know the book is called Good Connection.

You don't spend too long getting friendly friendly, but you do do some resistance. I like the balance. It's good.

Correct. Yes. I, I've, I've came across on YouTube and I was like, you know, this might be a good, uh, time to learn more about investing in stocks and trading. So I was like, yeah, this might be right up my alley.

Why is that? What was now the time?

Well, I just, I hear, I wouldn't do that. I just go, okay, what are you doing now to get there? But it's cool. You grabbed onto it. It's not a killer. Like, you're like, what is that? Like, it's fine. I just, I just go, I just think I just, again, from Matt, it's like everyone wants to, everyone's here cuz they wanna make more money. Mm. So when they tell me the goal, I don't probe on it. I'm just like, okay, what are you doing now? As soon as they gimme the answer, that's a good enough answer. Like that answer, a lot of reps would be like, oh, that was a story. He's not telling us, he's not telling concrete. I'm like, whatever, but just like, obviously just go situation, get problem. It's probably gonna come out there implicitly and then you hit success metrics anyway. So like, I just don't, I just don't touch it, but it didn't do anything poorly. Like he's gonna, he's gonna respond. It's okay.

Gotcha. Okay. How you doing today?

Right on, y'all. I was like, yeah, this might be right on, Matt Ryder.

Is there anything really that you should do now for you that makes it better?

Well, I just, I hear from like my friends and all them like, yeah, cause like, why is now a good time?

It's just like, I go, why is that if I was going to do it at all? But so getting it at the time, look, you might get a lay down answer.

Great.

So I was like, yeah, this might be right up my alley.

Why is that? Why now the time?

Well, I just, I hear from like my friends and all that, like I want to, you know, get more to just training more, you know.

It's like, well, now he's giving you worse answer than he gave you before because now he's just said the reason why I want it is because my friends want it. I'm like, uh, whereas at least the first answer was okay. I would have ridden with that and just get the situation. But it's fun.

Now, for that makes it a better time than say in the past.

Well, honestly, like in the past I've never like gotten into trading or anything. I never understood the concept of it until like now. Like I've done a little more research and like I'm like, this is definitely not, definitely something I want to do.

It's just like, yeah, mastering it there. Well, I would just like—

So it doesn't sound like you've started yet. It's more like you're trying to start now.

So we're in a situation and it's like, what are we, what, from what we got there, how is that going to be used later in the call? Like what he just said. Like, it's, we're not gonna really use it. And unless you are gonna go, okay, uh, in 3 minutes we need to do objection finding or something, rehandling. Uh, what do you, are you, are you gonna remember? If you are, that's fine. It's completely, are you gonna remember to say, uh, okay, before me you mentioned you haven't done anything before. Why is that? As long as you can do that and hit like random, uh, trading scripts, right? As long as like, okay, you asked like, uh, cool, like, what are you looking for here? That's where you did it. Like you said, like, what are you looking for? And he goes, oh, um, yeah, my friends wanna, whatever he said when we paused. He goes, um, yeah, okay, I don't, I haven't started before. Yeah, okay. Well, like, that where I need that information is here. So I'm not gonna say it now. I'm gonna have to say, okay, I'm gonna ask deeper from there because if I go before you be looking for ways to make income online? He says no. That's basically the same as him having said it earlier in the call. So now I'm going to have to ask this question and go, before me you mentioned you weren't looking for any ways. Why is that? As long as you can remember and do it. Otherwise what you're going to get is like I said when you asked this question, because he already said it before. The reason why he said it is because you, uh, maybe unnecessarily probed on, on that goal. So I just have, you can do it, but you have to have, you have to have certainty in yourself's process that, you know, most of the time when you say this, they say something like that, not like way over here. And then like, oh, fuck, like he said it now, I can't ask it later and it's just gonna be like weird. Like he's gonna say, like I said. So I just like to have certainty of where I'm going. But it, on my tonality, it comes off like, I'm okay. And I guess, like, I suppose, and it sounds like it's unscripted or unprocessed, but they feel like they have a wide berth to kind of speak. But I'm, I don't go in too many directions. That doesn't mean, like, last thing, it doesn't mean that I would say what you said is wrong, but you should say it a lot on your calls if you're going to do it. So, you know, you have a lot of certainty of your process on every call. You probe like that. Why, why is it a good time for you now? Is the first probe you do off the back of the first answer to goal. And then you'll know what they say and you'll get this certainty in your brain that, oh yeah, I don't need to ask that later because it always comes up here. So just making sure that you're uniform with it. I just don't, I just don't do that.

So I don't normally do that.

Yeah.

Just give people like an idea of like where I'm coming from. So I just try to have a conversation that's in front of me. Like I honestly don't care what they say at the beginning of the call. I'm going to direct it where it's going to go. So when you say like, oh, when you're going to ask him like, oh, did he do anything else? And what stopped you? Like I get a little bit further. Yeah.

I get that. I would say like if you're at an elite level, like maybe with like PSO, I don't have any process. I don't have a script, but I do, even I then know, I generally know where I'm going. Like I do have a process. Matt Ryder has a process. So to say I'm just having a conversation with him, which means there is a justification why I would randomly probe off like what's just at the front of my head. Unless you are at such a level of unconscious competence that you just, you just feel like I'm going to probe on that because you know you're going to use it later. It's just, you just have no certainty over your process, you know. You just have— you don't have any certainty of like, are you going to use it later? Because then you're going to think randomly that in objection finding you got some friction, but it's because like a minute before you pissed them off because you're repeating stuff that you didn't think you said but you did say lightly, you know. So it's just, you just have to have some kind of uniformity to— and some, some semblance of like the conversation. And I agree, most guys lean for too far the other way. They're too rigid, too heavy autistic agenda. I like your, I like your vibe that you're more relaxed, but just make sure you're kind of being aware of everything you're saying has to benefit the sale in some way to give you some kind of information that you're gonna use later to not either repeat yourself or ask a deeper version of it. Okay. You said you before you didn't, uh, you hadn't tried anything. Like, why is that? And just use it. You know, maybe you do just ask before me, were you looking for ways? And he doesn't say, well, like I said before, he just says no. But then it's just less efficient. Cool. Uh, any— are you going, Will? You saying—

yeah, I got a call at 1. I got to go, too.

But, man, I'll see you next week. That's all I had to say about this, dude. I, I, I'm pretty much like— I'm pretty much on your side, 100, almost 100%, in the sense that I like the fact that you're more laid back. Because some guys are just so rigid and they don't listen.

Yeah. How long have you been at work? 2 years.

2 and a half years.

Yeah. You like it?

I do. It's just, um, the schedule is very— it's very harsh, you know. Um, you know, not having— not having time to— for yourself. It's strictly just work. Um, like long hours out of town, you know.

All I'm looking for now when I hear that is, okay, what shifted for you recently? Like, how— I just say, how long has it been going on that you felt like you got these mad hours? Uh, 3 years. Okay. What shifted for you recently that made you feel like— because you know how you said before that you just started looking into trading? Like, what shifted for you recently to actually start, like, looking into trading as a potential means to, I guess, get some of your freedom back? See how that's a custom question based on what he said? And that would make it quite okay for— you know how you probed and said, why is now a good time? Like, I was like, how long you've been going on? Okay, what shifted for you recently considering you mentioned that you just started looking at trading, which is what he said before. So just make sure if you are gonna randomly probe, it's fine. You can do, you can have no process as long as you use what you, what they said, if, where you can, it would just help lift the call.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay.

And like, long hours. Those guys are just basically ticking boxes and they have an amnesia for what happened just like 2 minutes ago when you could be using it.

Yeah.

Like, the questions are in order for a reason.

Expect us to, like, work next day. And which is not a deal. I won't do that for the rest of my life, you know.

Sure. I mean, like, how did that impact you? Like, having that happen? I don't know, like, how often it happens. It was just, like, one time here.

It depends on—

Yeah, that's really crazy.

Come on, you know, that sounds like it could be trouble. All right, yeah, that's from Matt Ryder.

Yeah, okay, gotcha. Yeah, I mean, like, that sounds like it could be trouble.

Is anyone aware of something that's happening in his language that they want to be aware of? It's a skill thing. It's not— it's just— it's just—

we can't really hear it, like it's lagging.

Oh shit.

Oh man.

You guys can see it right where it's highlighted. It's right here. Let me optimize for video. How does that, is that better, guys?

You lose time with family, you know, you, um, you don't have yourself time, you know, to, it just, it takes a life out of you.

Is anyone, can anyone tell what's going on here in terms of, in terms of like you lose time with family? Um, what, what, can anyone identify something? I just want to see what happens. Don't give you the answer. Does anyone identify something in this language pattern? Right, it's going to be a— it's going to be part of an objection later. And why objection finding, once again, in trading is so important. Um, I, I think he keeps saying like, you know, you know, just trying to get you to, um, agree to his objections, pretty much. Yeah, bang on.

Subconsciously.

Yeah, fire, 100%. I know I didn't really describe it that way, but I agree. Yeah, he's, he's trying to external— I would say he's trying to externalize the discomfort, which has caused him to probably not do anything about it, which is probably why, not to judge the prospect, but I've just done so many calls. Him saying you, you, you is probably an indicator. I'm just trying to reserve judgment, but done so much pattern recognition at this stage with BizOp trading and like other offers. But is that he's kind of going you, you to not really, and he might be like, have a go. I don't want to be too doom and gloom about it. He kind of shifts it. And then when you go and then you match that up with the fact that he said, oh, I just only started looking. I haven't really looked into this, but he's had the problem for like 2 years. Math, sales math that, right? So you're gonna have potential objections over either coaches or some kind of cope over why he hasn't done anything about it because it's been 2 years. And if he says, oh, I wasn't confident, ultimately that's why we're here, right? That's why we booked the call. You're like, yeah, okay, so ultimately what held you back from potentially looking for outside help in the past? And he could say, oh, they all wanted money. And you go, I'm assuming you understand you're looking at better skills and you can start pre-handling the objection. But that's all I'm seeing right now just by that you, you, you. So if anyone didn't pick up on that and didn't really match it with what I said before about what I said before with how he said he's like a couple of things now in a row, which is I've been doing, I've had this problem for like 2 years and I just started looking into fixing it and you, you, you. Does that make sense, guys, a little bit? Do you feel like that clicks, Adam? Yeah, sorry, I, I came in a little bit late, uh, properly late. I joined, I had to run, I missed that bit, so I can rewatch it. But did you go over how to like deal with it when people externalize? No, not yet, I haven't done it. I, I liked it. What I, I don't like to choke, like that's for a lot of people what I just said there would be like, damn, you're being really like hard on him, like kind of thing. I wouldn't deal with it. A lot of, some people go, me? You, you're the one with the problem. I wouldn't say that, right? I just go, okay, okay, it makes sense. I don't wanna put too much agenda on the call. We're like 3 minutes in, we just met. So I'm like, I'm like, right, okay. And what I'll do if I need to ninja it, I'll ask a follow-up question when they say, well, you know, you, you know, it gets really hard for you to pay the tax and, you know, you really have to do this and you really have to do that. And I go, okay, and I guess for you specifically, like, how have you felt like that has affected you, right? And I'll just like get them direct and they'll go, oh, well, I— and then you gotta cook it if you want to do anything, but you really don't even need to worry that much. You just go, okay, yeah, I know it's that. Like Matt Ryder would just say, don't even touch it. Just go, yeah, okay. And then you'll get it in about 3 minutes in objection finding. You'll get there eventually. You'll see it. You go, what held you back from committing in the past? And they'll go, these things. And then if they don't say, can I make a suggestion to you? If they really need it, you go, can I make a suggestion to you? Yeah, go ahead. Um, you mentioned before that ultimately you've been feeling this stress from work for the last like 2 years, is that right? I know he said that, but I want to make it sound collaborative. Uh, 2 years, is that right? And you're like, yeah, okay. And you mentioned that you only just started looking into trading and really outside help in general, like when it comes to making an income online, in the last sort of like 2 months. That was that, right? Yeah, okay. Well, ultimately, like, if, if you'd had the problem for like 8 months, like, what fundamentally held you back from actually getting started on like even looking and doing something? Or you can say the reason why is because, and you can just kind of potentially reframe it depending on how much you've got. But I don't like to throw them down, say you, you have the fear when they didn't say it yet. I like to ask them, give them an opportunity to tell me they have the fear. Like you would have seen on Navid's call in that 88K Month call review if you watch that one on my YouTube. And the guy's like, oh, it's fear. But he made it real, he made it real obvious open lane for the prospect to say it. He didn't jump in as soon as the guy said, I haven't done anything before and go, oh, that's because you're afraid. He just kind of waited. So he didn't choke. He waited and just take your time, man. 12 minutes, they're gonna tap and you're gonna get them to say probably something along the lines, I was afraid. I thought there was, everything was a scam. Whatever it is. But go ahead, Adrian.

Yeah, I was gonna say, because that's great feedback, and I'm sure that's because, like, you reviewed tons of sales calls, right? Um, so for this guy, it was 100% fear. Fear kept— like, it was brought up, but, like, we, we went through all of that, and I mean, like, this guy pip for $10K.

So this guy—

yeah, that's why I wanted to know, like, um, what do you—

why are you telling me that? Like, what, what are you—

because I feel like the real— I feel like the real, um area of improvement would be the gap, right? So because—

but you said he had fear, but then you said he bought. I'm trying to understand.

Yeah, he did, but that doesn't mean I can't get better.

Yeah, but you mentioned he had fear, so like, I'm just trying to understand, like, it just doesn't— I'm just trying to understand how that lines up with what I was saying. So, so you're saying the gap, but he bought on $10K, so why would the constraint be the gap if he ended up buying on $10K? All I know is from that call is what he was saying was indicative of fear-based language.

Right, right. So you're right. So when I target the fear, it's a little bit later on. So I guess like, so it's like there's two, there's two areas, right? So with me, when I say like I have like conversations that's in front of me, you're telling me like, hey, I have a process, I follow my process. I don't, I don't really do that.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And then at the same time, you're saying that If he's saying like you, you, you language, right? He's not taking ownership, then you would just target that right away.

No, I didn't say that. I said that he said you, you, you there and then what I would do after that is finish the rest of the phase, move on like I said, and then in about 3 minutes when objection finding comes up, then you address it. That's what I just said to Adam.

Oh, okay. Maybe I misunderstood.

Yeah. When he, cause he just said you, you, you, you're in problem.

Right.

You kind of tried to hit impact. It didn't really land because you asked it in too long of a question. And then you kind of went to like how long type of thing. And then he said, you, you, you kind of went back into problem because it should go problem, pain. But you went like problem, oh, just the impact. And he's like, yeah, with these things, tell the story. It wasn't in principle agreement. It wasn't yes. It was like, well, and then it was just kind of like, and he said, you, you, you, you to externalize it. All that tells me, I'm like, okay, cool. Like he's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see that in objection finding. In about 2 minutes. But it's, we'll just like, let me build everything else. Don't get, don't shoot your shot. You need other things before you get there. You need, you need, you need rationale to dismantle DIY. So he's bought in on that. He doesn't have another option. And then success metrics to get an objective measure before we do head into objection finding. Because maybe if you want to make an extra $1,000 a month, maybe having that fear is okay. Because you don't really need to step up that much. But if you wanna get to financial freedom, right? And you'll tell me that in success metrics, which is doubling your income and, and not having to work for someone else, that's 2x in your, 2x in your, in your income. And if you take in the fact matter that you're gonna halve your time, you're like 4x in your hourly rate, whatever it is. When we head into now objection finding, I now have all my shit in one sock, which is you are, have externalized responsibility cuz you're afraid you haven't done anything about it. Which is there's a reason, I just need to find out. And you have way bigger goals than your current effort. And then he's cooked heading in to— he's already cooked heading into objection finding. I know, I have so much conviction. I'm just gonna ask, I'm gonna go for my process, and I'm— if you don't admit it, I'm just gonna tie it back to the things you said and just go, well, just so I understand, you mentioned prior this, just so I understand that, and acts like just collaborative. Just go, okay, um, you mentioned you haven't looked For 2 years, is that right? Okay, and how long have you wanted to get to the $30K a month? Okay, what fundamentally held you back? Because ultimately, I'm assuming you understand $30K a month, that's the top 1% of income in America, right? Yeah, okay. Well, ultimately, like, I'm assuming you understand to get to that $30K a month, you ultimately have to have, like, a superior level of skills, right? Like, it's about the skills, right? And this is where you start setting the agenda. It's like, you have to have better skills, right? And like, I'm sure you know all the best traders out there, they don't have, like, random approach, they have a strategy. Right? So ultimately, like, if you felt like you, you felt like sort of overwhelmed at work and the way out of that was to get to $30K a month online and the way that you would get the $30K a month online is through a strategy. What else may hold you back from at least trying to go from research mode to doing mode with the strategy? And then they're just gonna be like, fear. I was afraid. And you go, okay, cool. So what have you lost in the last 2 years by not getting a strategy? And they're gonna go, I've lost this money or time. Okay, and what will you continue to lose if you don't get a strategy and outside help? These things. Okay, and what type of mindset shift do you need to have moving forward so that you can actually put yourself in a position to get a strategy so that God forbid you can get to $30K a month? And they'll be like, these things. You'll be like, okay, cool. Well, let's just do this just to see if what we're doing would actually work for you. Let's say you and I sat down and mapped out the perfect strategy for you to get to $30K a month so you can freedom. What type of training support do you feel like you need to get there? And now you're doing ideal criteria and it's the right place to do it. And you start building the gap there to answer your question about gap. You start building a gap there because now you've achieved the first objective. No one will, if you ever get objections or you're struggling and your close rate isn't fucking elite, it's probably just the highest level is that the first objective of the call is to get an admittance of a problem. Or with the, in the kindest way possible, an inability to solve it as well as you can, right? That's one piece. The other thing is in order to get someone to believe that your product is superior and that they need to do it your way and be bought in on your thesis for how you solve this problem, that's gain beliefs, winning beliefs that you want them to have. In order for that to happen, you need to have first, before inserting them, dismantled limiting beliefs. The only way you get someone to question their limiting beliefs is if they're in enough pain or unfulfilled desire. For a sophisticated person like me, I'm not going to say my life is shit, but if you can get me to admit that I don't have a current lead gen strategy to get to $300K a month, that's enough pain for me. I'm like, I mechanistically, I can't achieve it, so I'm going to be stuck. With someone at zero, then, then they just need to talk about the pain, which you're doing well, you're doing good, like overall. But what we want to do is go ultimately get them to question their limiting beliefs, which is a scam and all this other stuff, or the fear— that's the limiting belief. But the only way he'll do it, my friend, is if you have enough pain. There's a saying from Napoleon Hill: we— you need to be cured of your stubbornness through disappointment, which is everyone thinks they've got it figured out until you don't make money for a few months and you go, well, maybe Jack knows what he's talking about. And then you start, only once you're in enough pain, do you start buying coaching or listening, right? And because you had limiting beliefs that every coach was a scam, but then you're in enough pain and you see other people getting results, you're like, fuck, okay, yeah. And then you take your limiting beliefs away, right? So you need to get pro— you need to get problem, which is great, you've done it. But your next step to leverage it is to get, uh, some dismantling of limiting beliefs so that when you go into building the gap, that bridge from going to problem to gap, right? Before you start inserting what you feel like you need to get there, gain beliefs, you probably want to get rid of the limiting beliefs that he will have over those. So like I said to Will, before we go into this is what you should get from us, what I want to get is, are you in agreeance that coaching in general can help you, right? And if you have fear, there's no way that you'll believe. And then even though you ask them and you think you're going for the sales call and you're asking them 'Well, what do you feel like you need from us?' So you're pitching and they're going, 'Yeah, it sounds good.' They still fucking think that there's some— I just reviewed a call from the top closer at a very well-known— you would all know him— a well-known fitness guy. And the prospect was giving the objections in like all through the call and the rep didn't see it. He's a top closer on the account. And then at the end, she gave the exact objections. She said something about, 'Oh, I worked with this coach in the past and they try to force me to do that and this and the other.' And he just didn't even address it. He just went, okay. He didn't go like, with other people getting results, like, how's that made you feel about getting coaching in future? Do you, do you still feel like coaches can help you? And addressing that, but he didn't. And then at the end she's like, yeah, I just don't know if this is going to be right for me because of like what happened before. And then he tried to battle it in objection handling.

It didn't work.

That makes sense.

Cool. So I'll just say this, leading into GAP, I'll watch GAP now and just dedicate to it like you asked, but every phase is succeeded on the basis of the phase before it. It, it's a, there's a reason it's in an order and you can't have a good gap unless you have a good whatever's before in your process. If your process is congruent, if you're just randomly pasting in random people's scripts, maybe just skip anything because none of it has any congruence. But if you're, if you don't have a good gap, if you want to have a good gap, you need to have a good objection finding. If you're gonna do objection finding. Cool. If you don't do it, you say to have a good gap, you need to have a good problem. Cool.

Yeah.

Sweet. So let's, uh, let's quick bang it. Oh, we still have time and we'll go down to it. Do you know what, what a keyword might be or how long into the call it was?

Something.

20, 20.08.

20.08.

Yep.

I got you.

And yes, so remember, okay, so do you feel like, yeah, so right now, based on what I'm hearing, so right now you're looking for more knowledge. So if we have a system to implement like that knowledge, that would be useful, right? Okay. The second thing you said was the emotional part. So to be calm, you said to be calm. I'm assuming So I'm guessing like that's the emotional volatility, whether or not like you win trades, lose trades, you don't want to say revenge trade, right? You want to be able to weather through the storm without being so emotional.

Was it, was it, do you think it was apparent to both of you why? Or do you think you explained it enough? It's purely up to you. I'm not going to say you did or didn't. Like, you know, for example here, you want the knowledge. We have like a step-by-step system to implement that knowledge. Would that be useful, right? He's like, yeah. Do you think it's clear explicitly enough in the conversation prior? Because I skipped stuff. Do you think it's clear to him why knowledge is so important?

Well, I can ask him why, but like in this step, like I was just asking him, like, what does he feel like he needs to succeed?

Yes. He gave me that side criteria. And do, like I said, do you feel that at this point he knows why he needs knowledge? Is it clear to both of you? Has he articulated in some way, either explicitly saying earlier, I need knowledge because, Or has he said the reason why I failed in the past is because I didn't have knowledge?

Both.

He said those things already?

Yes.

Okay, great. Then it's fine. You don't have to ask why so much, right? All you have to do, what I would do is when they go, when you say this, go, okay, so you feel like if you step ahead steps to get like knowledge, that would be useful? And he goes, yeah. And you go, well, it makes sense based on what you said before about XYZ, lack of knowledge. And I tie it back to the problem. So it's congruent and he feels there's this, there needs to be a clear picture of where they are, where they want to be, and you're emotionally connecting the dots. So I would just tie it in instead of moving straight to the second pillar. That's the only change I would make is just, just connect it back. It makes sense what you said. You also get free rapport points because they know you're listening.

Step system to implement like that knowledge, that would be useful, right? Okay. The second thing you said was the emotional part. So to be calm, you said be calm specifically. So I'm guessing like that's the emotional volatility, whether or not like you win trades, lose trades, you don't want to, um, say revenge trade, right? You want to be able to weather through the storm without being so emotional.

Well, I would say there is just to refine it. You don't have to go why. You could just say the next thing you said, whether or not you win trades, lose trades, you just don't want to revenge trade. Uh, you want to be able to weather the storm without being so emotional. So that you get more consistent results. That's what I would say is explain the end state benefit.

Okay.

Or the end state consequence. So you want to be able to weather the storm without being so emotional so that you don't lose money. Just say that to unsophisticated people, you need to paint the picture all the way to the end state consequence, the end state benefit of the benefit. That's the only way you would make that better.

You wanna be able to weather through the storm without being so emotional. Is that right?

Correct.

Exactly.

Okay, cool. And then the next thing you said that you wanna pick our brains, right? And I guess what you mean by that is, is that more so like the coaching and implementing like what you're learning today?

Yeah.

Like, yeah, exactly.

Like, like you said, like it's just more so like seeing how you guys maneuver through different trades and how you guys, when a problem occurs, how you guys solve it and just You know, going from there.

Okay. Okay. So let's say, right, that we are able to help you in those areas, right? And we can help you earn 5,000 a month, even 9 to 5, to actually get the time freedom that you want back. At that point, beautiful. What would that allow you to do?

The way you executed that, the tone and the speed, I know it's a bit faster, but I can tell it was done really well and everything was included. That was nice. Does everyone else see why that was good? David and shit. If you're still here, I can't see any of you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was fire.

Okay, okay. So let's say, right, that we are able to help you in those areas, right? And we can help you earn—

everything's included nicely, it's all included, but it's not long-winded. You want back at that point, like, pause that and then use his body language to do It's like that you wouldn't be able to do right now, which makes him think about what he can't do right now, which is like, it's prompting. It's fucking perfect. He's now thinking. He looks down, starts thinking.

Um, with the family more so of, you know, I do want to start other businesses and just work my way up, you know, but with, I can't do that with working a 9 to 5 and I want to have you know, different sources of incomes, you know, but I can't do that with a 9 to 5. And I think it's just having, doing the things I love, you know, to travel. Um, not saying like, oh, I wanna go spend thousands of dollars. No, like just to go, just to go to California for a day and just enjoy the beach and just do small things, go on hikes and stuff like that.

So, okay.

I think that's—

spend time with the family. Like, do you have a few kids?

No, I don't. I don't have kids, but I'm talking about like family members, you know, cuz I mean, I'm Mexican, so I have like a big, um, You know, you know, the culture for Mexicans, like they're all over the place, you know, spent time with them though. And yeah.

Okay. So like your brothers and sisters, cousins, things like that?

Yeah. All of them. Yeah. Like, yeah. And it's more like in Mexico and stuff, you know, stuff like that. And cause they're the, you know, they're less fortunate over there.

So that's what I would say. What you wanna do in the emotional pattern here is how would it feel to be able to help them? What would, by the nature of you making the money you want, you be able to do? Like, you know, Mhm.

And like you being able to like go visit Mexico and actually help them.

Cool.

So what does anyone else just understand from what type of impact you really wanna make?

David, did you see kind of in that little capture from where I said what Adrian did was really good, where he was like really nicely sort of explaining everything and he kind of said, what can't you do now? And then That's one piece. And then his second piece where he said, what would you be able to do? And like, how important would it be? Fundamentally, like, in— what do you think he's doing there? In your own words, there's no schoolbook answer. By going first, like, what is the issue? Like, what can't you do? What do you want to do that you can't do now? He said, what do you want to do that you can't do now? And he's like, I want to do these things that I can't do right now. And then he goes, okay, and what type of impact do you wanna make when you have the money? What is, what are the two themes of what he said then? What do you think they do together? Two themes. Yeah. Like what's the, okay, let's, let's treat one at a time. The first one he did, which is what do you feel like you want to do that you can't do now? What does that do to the prospect emotionally? He's starting to think about all the things that he can't do. Yep. And how does that make him feel? Like, not happy. Like, shit.

Okay.

Perfect. Number 1. And then what does it do emotionally by him asking, um, what, uh, type of impact do you want to make by helping your family? What do you think that's going to make him— how do you think that's going to make him feel? It's going to make him feel happy, but then it's going to make him realize that he doesn't have that yet.

Yeah.

It's gonna create separation because they're quite near each other. They're like in the conversation, it was so well, it was nice and tight. Yeah. It's like he's paying it to whether that's in your process by someone else, you wrote it, whatever it is, it's a mo— even if you're not following a script, like I don't use a script. If I was selling B2C, that's exactly what I would do. It's right there and then because if they're like, sometimes if they're like 20 minutes away from each other in the call, then it is just like quite different. But if you can pull the push and pull of the call, But they're quite related. They're not like two separate questions like, oh, what can you do now? Oh, what would be the first Ferrari you buy? It was like quite, they're related. It's like, what do you, what would you wanna do? What do you feel like you wanna do with having those skills? Like, what do you feel like you wanna do that you can't do now? Okay. Mm-hmm. Oh, whoa. Well, let's say like, what would it be like, like what type of impact do you wanna make? And he's like, I wanna make this. And you're like, oh, great. It's like, it was like pull, push, and then he's probably gonna do it again. If he does consequence again, he's going to pull him back down. So it just creates this tension in the person to want to change. So that's what he was doing really well there. Okay, bro, you, you, Adrian, you give me a gap, bro, it's fine. There's nothing to work on. Yeah, maybe just wanted confirmation.

So there may be more, but yeah, no, I just wanted to know, like, based off of, like, what you know, whether or not this is, like, a gold, gold standard.

Yeah, man, it's pretty solid. I'm not going to knock it. You're paying attention to the emotional patterns. There's some logic to what you're saying from a sales perspective, like where things are, the question after the question after, like where the questions are ordered. Like, so today, then they make sense being right next to each other, where some people just ask like piecemeal random questions hoping to get 10 out of 10 on every question, but they don't actually have a uniformity. Like, it's like a team. All the questions. They do, they work together and your questions will make sense that they're there. You're pushing and pulling, you're giving them something and then you're taking it away, etc.

Fields of like avocados and stuff like that. And if I can help in any way to help them plant, to help them just build a farm basically, you know, do that.

Just, this is the place to create, this is a time right now when someone speaks like this, guys, is to create a label of identity based on this. So it's like, ultimately, you want to be the, you know, you want to be the provider as a man, right?

Yeah.

And then you go, it makes sense, right? And like, I guess as men, sometimes we have to do what we need to do and not what we want to do so that ultimately we can provide, you know, that avenue for our loved ones to do what they want to do. But there's that satisfaction in that, knowing that ultimately, you know, we had the hustle required to do what we needed to do and commit. And we, we sort of build the world or our family's world in our image. And the guy's like, yeah, that's exactly what I want. And it makes it super fucking incongruent for him to have an objection at the end of the call about fear. Right? So there's little moments like this where you can start as an example of identity. Will was asking, he's probably watching it, uh, the callback is like, this is where you could probably start hitting identity. Yep. Right. And like, it's not in your script. But you do it right there because he's talking about who he wants to be and it's like, that's a perfect time to do identity.

Okay. So I do that a little bit later. See if he can smell it out.

Yeah. Gotcha.

And just help. I'm not here for just the greedy. And I just, like I said, I just wanna, I just wanna help the most that I possibly can.

And I couldn't see that. Like, where does that come from? If you don't mind me asking.

Um, beautiful, bro. I, I, true. Take it deeper.

Um, I truly believe that comes from— obviously I never really had this type of heart until like I truly got into the word and understand, you know, like what my purpose was. And I— he truly, like, I don't want to push religion on you, but like he twisted my— he twisted me around and he turned me around. It was like a complete 180. He gave me the heart that he wanted, and it took time. But this is, I believe, what I'm here to do on this earth, you know, just to help people.

That's wonderful. So being able to like, I'm not sure if you have any family members in the States, say, hey guys, like, come with me, we're going to travel to Mexico, right? And we're going to help our cousins out. We're going to like help them build the farm, right? Make it a real impact for them. At that point, like, you being that guy, how would you feel at that point?

Bang on.

I mean, that was my identity, but I could have done way better based off of the example.

Yeah, you're doing good at getting him to label it. And getting him to say everything, which is gold. What I'd say is let that they, 90% of it is what they say. Then all you need to do is wrap it in a little label at the end. Just go, okay, makes sense, like being that provider, right? Okay. And then you don't, so that, because what you wanna do is tell the prospect not just that you've heard, but you've acknowledged and you're giving it back to them. So there's an acknowledgement in that. There's two forms of rational, of like acknowledgement that you can hear him saying it and then you say it back, which is, I presume everyone knows about someone responding to you is more of an explicit acknowledgement, whereas listening is implicit. So I think if you can show him, uh, that's the only thing you could have done to take it from a 9.9999999 to an absolute 10. It's pretty much a 10. But this is what I would do is just give it back a little bit, right? But you do, you kind of go like you said, like there's a benefit to what you say here. That's wonderful. I'm not sure if you have family, but being able to take them out, you're giving an example back to him and showing you're listening. So you kind of do it anyway, but like, I like to kind of give it to him and just go, I like to kind of wrap it in a principle. Like Matt would say, like, uh, well, ultimately, yeah, it's like, if we want to be the, if you want to be the father, obviously they don't listen to, uh, what we say, they watch what we do, right? And he's like, they're like, yeah, he's like, so, you know, it always comes down to what we can actually do, what we can do to commit to ourselves. And he's saying we, which is him. It's a Trojan horse, because when you tell a story, people place themselves in the shoes of the protagonist. Like when you watch a movie, you walk out thinking you're Batman, because you literally like, I'm literally him. So when you go we, yeah, we ultimately have to commit to ourselves so that our kids can honestly watch us and model it, right? So that makes sense, man. You're able to help them live a better life and ultimately set the example. I think that's great. And you go, okay, and with what you're doing now, and you can hit consequence and pull them off it straight away because you don't want them sitting in it for too long thinking they've achieved it. You pull them off. Whatever you want to do next.

Of their inaction. People don't run fast and as hard as they need.

I mean, I feel like, I think, you know, so like I bring them down and, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're gonna do it.

Take this serious. Nice, bro.

That's probably the understanding of patterns.

Step right now, let's take this serious.

Right.

Okay. Because with your current skill set, see what he did, guys? Right now.

Yeah. See what he did? I just said it and then he did that, like, because it's already squared. That's perfect.

Yeah.

Does that make sense? Uh, David, he did it straight after I literally didn't know that was in the call. That was great. Exactly. Perfect. You pulled it at the right time. That's a timing thing, whether it's in your process. Did you have technically more questions in your script? Or if you have no script, was there maybe more things that are in some process for you to do and you just jumped to consequence? Because that would be the right, the right option. Or did you, is that right where it was in your, in your mind in the script? That was the only option to do next.

Yeah, that's literally the only option. Because again, I try to have the conversation that's in front of me. Cool. Cool.

Yeah. It means you understand the pattern. Alright. Some people don't understand the emotional pattern yet in sales and then they're like, they see more questions and they kind of go like, okay, and they're like, I don't know, just do some fucking more goal shit off the side. And they're talking about a goal that doesn't matter. If you get family, you're good. Just fucking— with the most men, if you get family, you're at the top of the goals. You can't find any better. But they'll be like, oh, what about, oh, snorkeling and shit? And they go off and it kind of fizzles and it's an emotion. And then the guy's like, so you said you want to do snorkeling, I better get that goal too. Uh, where do you want to snorkel? And the guy's like, well, I don't know, like, I think maybe maybe Belize, and you know, if I can get some time there, you're like, okay. And then you go to consequence, and it's like, not— it's still there, but you're not quite on the edge of family. Like, drop off— like, drop off the cliff with family. Just go like, family, like, bang out identity. I love it. With what you're doing now and the skill set you have with trading, how close do you feel you are to actually getting to the point where you can make the money so you can achieve those things? You don't even need to mention it. So you can achieve those things we just said one second ago. And they're like, not close. And you're like, and then it's just, again, David, like I said, it's the push and pull thing.

Yeah.

Right. Cool. Bro, I can't knock it much more. Maybe we can review more of it later. If you guys got to go, do you have any closing points?

Anyone?

Right.

Oh, sorry, Jack. Thanks again for the call, Matt. Fantastic stuff in there.

No worries. Any closing points for you, David?

Okay.

No, not really. I had a call to review, but it's too late. Next week. Next week. Yeah, you got it. You got it. You're first on the list. If you show up, I'll do your call. Adrian, any closing points from you?

No, that was really it. I appreciate the feedback. I just wanted to make sure like what I'm doing was gold standard.

How is your gap? Your gap is like 10 out of 10. It's not like it isn't bad. Look, at the end of the day, you make the sale, man. I'm not gonna think— I'm just— I just think maybe just how good your gap is. Maybe it works in that way. Maybe it needs to fit that way. But do you feel like you want to or need to improve upstream? I don't like to change what's not broken, but because if you make the sale in the end, what does it matter? But what do you think?

I, I, I don't, I don't, I, I can't agree to that. And the reason why I can't agree is because like I think I can always do better.

Right? Okay, great.

Specifically, I think I could definitely trim the calls. So like, for instance, between the difference between you and me, is that you can get to a process or where you want to be a lot quicker, a lot more efficient.

Okay.

Right? Like you, you trim the fat. Yeah. I'm, I'm nowhere, I'm nowhere near that.

Okay. Why do you think that is?

Because I haven't, I don't have as much experience. I haven't done this.

Okay. Well, like more specifically beyond that, what I would say is the logic behind that is like, if you are not cutting things out and I am, and you're saying it's more efficient because I am, doesn't that mean that I just have an ability to identify whether a question needs to be asked or not?

Oh yeah.

Okay. So that comes down to, I identify the objective of the question and know that it's already basically been like covered for. Is that kind of right? Like it's already been achieved. That's all that is. It's like, yeah, it's experience, but that's kind of, it doesn't, it's a story that doesn't help anyone. It's like, okay, what is it that Jack, because it might've taken me 2 years, but it could take you 3 months. If you get the right information, right? So I'll just say it's that. It's just, if you think I'm trimming, I'm more efficient, it's because I have the ability to identify the emotional pattern. And I think you have the intelligence to do it because that gap was an indicator. And you said it's not on a script too, it's what's in front of you. So that means it's here, which means you have the aptitude. The IQ level is that the, the, the aptitude you showed in gap tells me that you probably All you need to do is get your head around, um, what I need. What do I really need? I've done these calls now. I've done— you say to yourself, I've done like 30 calls, 50 calls, 100 calls. I know what I need to have. I know what I need to have heard to head into gap and close the deal. That's what I know. When I was closing BizOp, I was like, he has to have said these things basically in some way for me to know. Like, I need to get that feeling by about 10 minutes. To know that I'm good. So as soon as, if I hear it in 5, I'm like, done, right? You know, with PSO, I hear it in 6, always. I never pitch longer. I never take longer than 6 minutes to pitch in my own offer. I'm just like, okay, he said this. As soon as I hear the words I need to hear, all I need to hear is that I don't even need to hear big goal answers. I just need to hear a deficiency in your abilities to scale or be respected by your team or whatever it is and just like I hear like a slight deficiency. Whereas the last call I had, I still closed in 35 minutes for $15K, but they were talking about, we just want your systems. We just want your systems. We just want your systems. Like, he's, it's not, he's not gonna buy off that. He just doesn't know it yet. He's not gonna buy off that. So what I said was, what do you have now? And I'm like, sounds good. He's like, no, it's not. Why is that? These reasons. Okay, cool. Would you like me to lay out what I do? And then I pitched. So it just took me 3 minutes longer to pitch because I just needed to hear what I always need to hear, which is the admittance of inability to solve the problem as good as me. And once I hear that, I'm like, sweet, I can pitch. I'm good. So with your call, you've got gap down like a G. I'd argue the reason why I said, do you feel like you need to improve it, is because you need information heading into the gap to have a good gap. So you obviously have good information. Like you clarify, it's just taking you a bit longer. So maybe you wanna identify, don't change what's not broken, but sort of see, like, what am I, like, I already know that. Am I even gonna use that? Like, and just move on type of thing. But, what, it took you 20 minutes to get to gap? Yeah, it's a bit long.

Yeah.

Maybe, are you going into breaking down, what, what do you think the fat of the call is? Do you have any idea where you think you might be wasting time?

You ask people a lot. I let people ramble a lot.

Okay.

So more and more I've been trying to like cut them off and trying to do it the right way, right?

Yeah.

Without like losing good information or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So like before, I guess like I was too afraid of like, I thought like, hey, maybe they're just gonna gimme what I want if I let them ramble. Right.

But then like, and do they?

Yes and no. It's like 50/50.

But now they talk their way out of it sometimes.

Exactly. Exactly. So now I know how to navigate that and like kind of direct them back on path.

Yeah. That's why I like to verbal cue and go, okay, when they're speaking and I go, okay. And I'm just like, okay. And it just gets them to stop and I ask a question on it. And then they answer the question. Once they answer it, I just quickly redirect to another question and then they can't go back on that bullshit. You know? Okay. Well, let's like see this week. Are you, have you started doing that? Trying to, are you conscious in starting to try to cut it down. Okay, we'll see next week how, uh, if you've made any outsized, um, thing. I would just say though, depending if you're at 20 minutes and in gap, like, it might not just be them talking unless they're really rambling. It's the, it's the questions you're asking. You're asking too many and letting them ask too many. I would just say, because like, it's, that's like probably 6 minutes too far in that type of call. So unless you've got 6 minutes of, of rambling, if you do, then it's just rambling. But I'd say you're probably prompting it as well. You might be prompting it.

100%. So sometimes it's like, I feel like I don't have enough. So then I'll ask, I'll add even more probing questions and I don't necessarily need it, but I'm like, you know, like, why, why, you know what I mean?

Well, yeah. Okay. Well, let's just, you know, I think it'll probably naturally solve itself is as you start to do more calls and you'd be more confident that you don't need to do more. You'll probably start collapsing it. Once you get more pattern recognition, you're like, yeah, this is gonna be that and this and that. Not to get all assumptive, that's gonna lower your close rate. But like, just going like, okay, yep, like pretty clear. Like, let me move to this over here, which is the next first question of the next thing. And I know based on that, it's gonna tell me if he was good there. And like, you kind of know if you don't need to loop and stuff. Right. And it will probably solve itself. Just let's see next week. I reckon it will. I reckon some of these problems like literally go away a little bit just by the nature of you think being aware of of doing it. And then you'll be, you'll be able to identify and come to me and go, oh dude, I know exactly what I'm doing that I shouldn't be doing. It'll come, maybe become more obvious. Okay, cool.

Cool, man.

All right, man. Great. Really good call. It was really good. And David, thanks for showing up, man. Appreciate it. Yeah, can't be late.

I had problems with the laptop.

No worries, bro. Yeah, I saw you come in and then I let you in, but then you were gone and then I was busy talking to someone and I saw you were in the waiting room. I was like, fuck, I left him there. But we got there eventually. If you have any issues, just message me on WhatsApp next time at the time of the meeting. All right. Yeah. See you guys soon.

Easy.

Appreciate it.