Sales process and maximisation training with Matt Ryder

Alrighty. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, Hello. What mic does YouTube use? All right, sound settings, microphone input. There you go. There you go. All right. All right. All right, let's do that. All right, guys, we're going to be going over the sales maximizations. So let these people in. Alrighty. Share my screen. What's up, team? All right, guys, what we're going to be doing to go over today is sales maximization. Okay? So we're going to be going through sales process, how to optimize it, what to look for and kind of stuff like that. All right? So focusing heavily on the sales process side. I used to run these sessions and I was running seventh level all the time and they're always pretty useful, pretty handy. So I'm just going to get up a little mirror board real quick. But overall, do you have any questions? How did everyone go with their. What they were supposed to be doing over the last last few weeks? Ben, I know that you got your stuff done. Is that right? Ben, you there? Oh, I'm talking to nobody. I was sitting here talking like an. And I'm on. So there you go. Look at me. All right, guys, today we're going to be going over sales maximization. Okay. I used to run these sessions at seventh level. They always went pretty well. Okay. So we're going to be going a sales process, you know, how to. How to kind of optimize it, what I would be looking for. And then from there, you know, we can go through some Q and A and stuff like that. But. But there's a whole bunch of things that I think that people don't really take into account. So what I want to do is I want to. I want to actually go through like, what. What are the data points that you should be collecting within the sales process and then like, how can you. How can you optimize it? But what I did want to do through is like, has anybody sort of done. Anybody go through. Finish off the goal setting, finish off the scripting template, you know, from the rest of the high ticket course you guys are on? No. Yeah, Ben, I know that you did a bunch of stuff either. Ben. Yes. Yeah. All right. What did you do?

I did the. The goal setting, the heat map and the scripting template.

Okay. When you did the heat map of the. Of the show rates, right? What did. What did you. What did you find?

Friday afternoons were trash.

Okay.

Got a. A much lower show right there.

Okay.

Like early morning Mondays too actually was worse than other times, which was interesting.

So.

So I started blocking out Those times for, you know, follow up or content creation or whatever other things that I need to do.

Okay. All right, perfect. And that's exactly what you're, that's exactly what you're trying to find, right? Right. Yep. Alrighty, I will. I was trying to find an old, an old mirror board that I have, but looks like I don't have it anymore. That's all right. Okay, so sales process. All right, does anybody like map out their sales process? Like when it. Does anybody map it out? Like, do you guys have a map of what you guys do, how you guys do it, yada yada yada? No. Okay, cool. All right, so share my screen and we'll kind of go over like how I do it. All right. Hopefully there's a lot of screen sharing going on here. Okay. But generally speaking. Oh, I don't want a template. Okay. All right, sweet. How do I copy? Control C, control V. There we go. Generally speaking, what we want to do is we want to start to map out just how many touch points there are in the process. This is coming from. We want to know where is the lead coming from. That's the first thing that we want to establish because we are probably going to have different entry points. Let's just say we do YouTube organic. This would be the lead entry point. Then from there we're going to go. We don't have to do too much detail. We're going to go, cool. This is like a link tree. Then we've got. This is going to be like an application. Now if I'm doing an application, actually what I'm pretty sure I can show you. All right. Yes, we can. All right, so I can show you this. All right, so I ran, I don't know if you guys know, but I ran the high ticket sales component of ClickFunnels for like just under a year. And this is the. Here it is. Before you guys ask, no, you can't have this mirror board. Okay, so. Okay, here it is. All right, so basically like what the first thing that we need to do is figure out, like where are things coming from and what do we want to do with them. So the first thing is like, okay, like what are the products that I'm selling? The products were at the time. There's the drop cell of 2K, 10K, 2550, 150 and $250,000. Okay. So like these are the things in which we were selling. Right. And then it was my responsibility to come up with kind of like how to sell these things. And then like how to give, how do I give proper targets, but also like, you know, as a salesperson, I want to have a good understanding. So what I wanted was $2.5 million per month in revenue. Right. And then I sort of had a pretty good guess that it was going to be around like this many 25k sales and this many 2k drop sales. Right. Like on average. And so it's going to be like 98 sales total, 40% close rate. Because they were pretty, like when the leads did come on the sales call, they were pretty qualified. 245 sales calls, 62% show rate, 390 calls booked. Now where are those calls coming from? We've got 100 from non application outbound, 40 from triages. So people who book themselves a triage, 50 from appointments from applications that we outbound and 100 from applications that book themselves. Because the applications can book themselves in two different ways. One is from triage and then one is from just straight application that bypasses everything. And so in order to do that, in order to do these two, we need to have 700 conversations. 1,000, $10,000. 4,250, no applications. Right. And we need 750 applications here, which is one out of every three book purchasers saying that like, you know, like booking. Okay. Which I didn't think was unreasonable. All right. And then from there. So I mean, we need 5,000 buyers. Okay. So 5,000 buyers on the front end would equal 98 high ticket sales. Those are kind of because like we're, we're pushing them into. It's from a book funnel. So it's not like it's going to be a high conversion rate. It's because we're sort of like crowbarring it in. Okay. But we have to understand all these steps. Okay. And this is how you should map out your sales process. And you as salespeople should have a map that sort of is similar to this. So first of all, we've got the lead generation mechanism here. So we've got linchpin. Russell had a book called Linchpin Book. Right. And then it was like, okay, cool. So now there's going to be a whole bunch of people that purchase but don't book. And there's going to be a whole bunch of people that do the application, okay. From the application, a hundred of them are going to go straight, okay. They're going to bypass here and they're going to go straight to a sales call. These ones are going to watch the vsl. We're going to outbound them, we're going to convert that many of them. These are the downsells. Okay. Didn't purchase outbound dial pickups. All right. Conversations. Right. I'll just scoot this along. Right. Then as you can see from those conversations, 15 sent to a sales call, 30 sent to a triage. 60 like attempt to buy the drop sale. 5% purchase it. Right. 70 show up to the triage, yada. And you can see that if you don't account for all these drop off points, then it's going to be difficult to map it. But then also if you don't account for all these drop off points and then there's no way for you to tell a month later what the actual numbers are because I don't know that these were going to be correct. Right. It's just a best guess. Then from there what I can do is I can start to then map out, okay, cool, what are the actual numbers that, what do I actually need? Right. And so, and then you can sort of start to go, all right, cool. Like what is the application process going to look like? What's the straight to strat, what's this criteria sent to the outbound list? What's the dialing cadence going to be? Okay. And then from there like what's the avatars of people that we're going to send straight through, etc. Etc. This is when someone opened clickfunnels accounts, a different sales process again. So as you can see, like when someone comes from a different lead source, okay, they're gonna have a different sales process because it's a different lead. All right. And this is what we ended up having like as like actual. Right. And so we ended up needing 600 calls booked. Okay. 391 held and 115 sales. 101 and 25. Right. And this is all the numbers that we had to figure out. So it's like, okay, 250k rev, 125 cash, 25 sales, 25% close rate, 100 calls held, 150 booked. Cool. So now like I know exactly that's going to give me 1.78 million new rev with 555,000 in new cash. Okay. And this is exactly where those leads are going to come from. Right. And it's extremely straightforward. And now like I have a plan. I can segment these, I can UTM a landing pages, I can UTM all the calendars. And then from there like I can have different reps on different ones and I can make it really clear. And then I can Have a look at the actual numbers in which I get. And then that allows me to start to problem solve where in the process it's going wrong. Okay? Which is kind of the key thing. It's. It's being able to problem solve where in the process things are going right and wrong. All right, so I'll give you an example. Put your hand up. If you guys track show, right? Like shows or no shows, right? All right, wait, one guy. Okay, cool. You guys are all fucked. Right? So like, shows and no shows. Does anybody here track cancellations, reschedules and no shows? Right? So sweet. If you don't track those three things, like, they're completely different problems. All right? A no show is not a cancellation, is not a reschedule, Right. A no show is someone who just doesn't show up, doesn't say anything, go. All right, so going at those problems in the same way is. All right, so a no show can be for a number of different reasons. Number two reasons, but they're all different reasons. So what you want to do is you need to see the distribution of shows. No shows, cancellations and reschedules. And then from there you go after the one that's affecting you the most. No shows are the most difficult to fix. So if you've got like, you know, if it's 30% this, 30% this, and 40% this, you know, like no shows, like, well, that's the biggest one. But like, let me go after the reschedules first. Okay. Reschedules are incredibly simple to fix. Most of the time all you do is you boil it down. There'll be like one time frame that the reschedule is the highest. And what I mean by that is, like, you're going to send out reminders. The reminders are going to be at like 24 hours, 48 hours, 24 hours, 12 hours, 3 hours, 1 hour, boom. And the reschedule, let's just say it's at the three hour mark. Usually you can find that data and then from there you just remove the rescheduling ability for that particular message. And that will decrease your reschedules, right? It does. Like time and time again. I've done that exact same thing. You just find out what's the message, which does that. And then from there like, okay, cool, we just removed the ability to do that. And they go, okay. And then you get like a 7% higher share rate just because you've not given people the opportunity to do it at that time. Okay. Cancellations are almost always due to online Reputation, right? So like you need to go through and like Google the business that you're working for. If you're a sales rep and you need to go through, opt in, have a look and kind of see what happens because that will play a large role. So and if you, and if you're not a business owner, that, if you're a sales rep but you, you can then contextualize and you can get some emails and you can kind of get ahead of it and be like, oh, hey, just, you know what I mean? You can, or you can bring it to the attention of the people that can fix it and then from there you can, you can fix it, right? But like if, if, if, if you Google the business and on Reddit it's just horrendous, right? And Reddit is like a cesspool of humanity, right? And so like you can be great at your job and people will shoot you on Reddit, like it doesn't make a difference. But if you don't know that, right, then what you do is you're going to try and fix it through like, you know, because you don't know the difference in your no shows, your reschedules, your cancellations, you're just going to fix it through like adding things to your process and then you're going to have this monstrosity of a process where then again you have like people whose entire job it is to just like call people and send them videos to make sure they show up to calls, which is ridiculous, right? So like you don't need that. Like you just have to make sure that all the kind of boxes are ticked. So cancellations are due to that. Also a lot of cancellations or reschedules are because you do not understand the avatar that you're selling. So you're opening up stupid spots. Like if you're selling like mums, don't have your sales calls open at 3, 4 and 5 o' clock in the afternoon, they're picking up the kids and making dinner. Like that's not the move, right? So again, doing like what Ben did, which is doing the heat map of when people shop and when they don't to find those consistent areas because you may, you have a problem, but actually what you do is you just have a cluster of times where like nobody turns up, right? Let's say it's five and six o'clock in the evening. Let's just say for an example, right? If you sell pts like personal trainers into something, ain't no one turning up at five o' clock, six o' clock in the afternoon. And if they do, they're broke because those people should be busy. They should be having personal training sessions at that time, right? So all these things come into account and people just don't think about it. And then what they end up doing is they try and add process and they try and add all these intricacies into, into what they're doing that are completely unnecessary. Or they try and like, skill set their way out of it and they buy a $10,000 sales training course. When in reality, all they need to do is just have a look analytically at what they're doing, right? So everybody get a piece of paper out and I'm going to tell you what you need to start tracking, okay? Like as a sales rep, in order to get the most amount of efficacy from what you're doing, all right? The first thing is you need to know where the sales come from, right? That's number one. Like which lead source provides you with the most amount of sales? Right? Now if you only have one, that's an easy one. But you might have 5, 6, 7, 8. I know, I said 5. So weird 4 life, right, where you have 5, 6, 7, eight different, like lead sources. And then like, you know, you guys aren't really looking at that, okay? So figure that out. Then what I want you to do is I to want, want you to go through and like mark down in a mirror board on a piece of paper, like lead source. 1, 2, 3, 4. All right? Exactly like what I did, like in that mirror board, okay. And actually do it. I don't want to see blank faces because this is going to make you money, right? There's a reason why, like, if you're like, oh, I'll do it later. That's why you're not in the 1% jam, right? There's 99% in the top 1%. And I'm in that top 1%. And I can tell you I did this every single time. So if you're like, no, do it. Be like, all right, cool. Stay broke. Cool. Good for you. Okay, so it's. Okay, so it's, it's source, incredibly important. Then from there you're going to mark the exact process they go through. What you want to map out is every friction point where they can fall out, all right? Like if you're sending emails and texts, you should be, you should be collecting the response rates, right? If you're sending emails to people and nobody opens them, the subject line sucks. That's the only problem. The Subject line sucks. Okay, right. So there, there is a way to problem solve everything that you're doing, but you have to like look at it in that way, right? So like an Facebook advertising, okay? I figured this all out on my own. Like the Facebook ad stuff. Like people had figured it out, but like this particular component I figured on my own. Like I wasn't the first one, but I figured out that my headline and my and the photo was the click through rate. That was the percentage of people that clicked on it. And I was like, oh, that makes sense. I would just try and optimize the click through rate. This is years ago. Then from there it was like the percentage of people that clicked onto the ad, okay, was like the link click rate, right? That was the body, that was the actual copy, right? And the cta. So those things had to be on point. Otherwise like, so if I had a good, good click through rate, but I didn't have good body copy and I didn't have a good cta, they wouldn't then click onto the website. It would just read the ad, right? So that means that like I could have a great headline and copy, I could have a great headline and a great thing that gets into click it, but I could have a body copy and a cta, which means I wouldn't get the result. So a lot of people just throw the entire ad out. That's say it with me, that's. I can also have the opposite. I could have a terrible click through rate, but an awesome rate from the small amount of people that do go on there. They, they click on. I'm like, oh sweet, that's a really good ad. I just have a terrible photo, a terrible, you know, creative at the front, whatever it may be, right? And so like I need to be able to do that. Then from there it's like what should my opt in rate be, right? You know, like if it like first of all is the, is the opt in box above the fold? Like you know, standard online marketing 101, right? Is it easy? Is it complicated? Like are the colors shit, you know what I mean? Like there are so many ways that you can dive in and sort of figure out everything, right? But going back to sales, okay, what we want to do is we want to go, okay, like I'm going to send a text message and an email. What's the open rate? What's the response rate? Because there are ways to get, you know, higher open rates, higher response rates. So you want to try and optimize everything. Because if you do optimize everything. Like the hour that you take to map it out and then like the hour every three days that you have a look to look at the data and optimize it will probably save you like tens of hours a month in like no shows and like speaking to people that are useless. Right? Because then you can start to optimize everything. Okay. Then from there you want to know like what's the sales process? You want to map that out. So have you got a one or two cold close. So let's just say you're doing a triage. Okay, so what are the outcomes that can happen? They book the triage. What are the outcomes? Outcome one, they can show up. Outcome two, they can no show. Outcome three, they can cancel. Outcome four, they can reschedule. Right. It's also if you're outbounding, what are the outcomes they can pick up? They cannot pick up. Okay. Those are the two outcomes. When they pick up, what can happen? They can tell you to off, they can have a conversation with you. Right. Or they can tell you to call back later. Those are the outcomes, Right. Essentially. So like the tree is getting bigger because I want to know when I how many people do I need to dial? How many are going to pick up? How many am I going to actually speak to from that? How many do I speak to over two minutes? How many do I offer the next step to? How many accept it from the people that accept it, how many show up? How many reschedule? How many cancel? How many no show. Right? You can see, because if I'm getting all no shows or all cancellations, then I can solve that problem because that's a really oddly weighted stat. It can't be all just cancellations. That makes no sense. So I'm clearly doing something or there is something that's making that happen, right? Like, because they wouldn't all cancel, it's like, okay, what happens? Holy. Don't YouTube a name something like that. Right? Okay, well let's, let's try and figure that out. Right? There's plenty of things that you can do to take down or like counteract it with good stuff. All right, so like super standard. All right, Then from there it's like, what's the next phase? What's the next phase? What's the next phase? So, and you want to have like what are the possibilities when you get to the sale, it's like how many people are you going to sell? How many are going to put into long term farming? Right. And how many people are just A straight no. Right. Of the people that you sold and didn't sell, how many objections did you get? Hold on a second. All right, how many objections did you get? And like, were they weighted in a particular fashion? Okay. I think one of the more interesting things that you can track is a lot of people will, like, they might track objections that they get and don't overcome, but they don't track objections they get and do overcome, right? If someone gives me a money objection and I overcome it, I, I kind of want to know that. Because if 75 of all people give me a money objection, right. I might want to have a look at that. I might overcome it, right? But like, what can I do in my process to try and help that or fix that? Or is there a particular marketing angle or is there a marketing source that gets significantly less money objections? And why is that? You can see how that would be helpful, right? Like if I can figure out which leads, give me no objections and just like lay down and I'm a sales rep, I'm gonna really try and optimize to get on that calendar, right? Just like, just that one. I'm not even tell anyone. I just want to do that, right? Like, I don't need to tell anyone what I'm doing to be like, oh, hey, I just want to work these leads, you know, try that out, right? So this is how you optimize like everything that you're doing in order to get the most amount of stuff. And then when you find the friction points, then you figure out why the friction points are there, why they're dropping off, right? And then how to kind of maximize pushing people through the entire way. Okay. All right. Now Matt, that you're going into, for sales perspective, if you're actually, I guess, the business owner, when you go and look through what objections you get that you don't overcome, and then you compare which ones you do. Is there a specific process that you look back in the marketing, obviously, looking for what maybe friction points cause those objections and like, what, what are you doing to kind of address those earlier? Or, or do you. Well, so like, for example, like if I'm getting partner objections, right? Like, like, okay, so I'm talking actually mainly as not the business owner, right? So for example, I used to get a lot of sort of like value and trust based objections with something that I was selling, right? And so I did all the stuff and it was like, that was the big heavy one because we were selling something pretty expensive in a pretty short period of time from a Pretty vague, right? And it was, you know, I mean, and it was to builders and you know, it's a pretty tough niche to sell and stuff like that. So basically I was like, hey, I think I need a webinar that I can send them that goes over specific parts of the portal that's quite problem specific to them. I laid out the three buckets. I went to the business owner, he goes, nah, it's too much work, dude. I was like, all right, you lazy, I'll do it. So I did my own webinar, right, as the sales rep of going over the portal and by going over specific parts that solve specific types of problems for the like the three different avatars that I was seeing. And I didn't want to overwhelm them, but it was like, it had some case studies, it had some, you know what I mean? And it was just like a 10 minute long video, like basically just like a loom video that I created that I would send them in between the first call and the second call. And then I created my own custom templated emails which went through and I basically had like problem one, problem two, problem three. Those are like the buckets that I had. And then the problem one emails were different than the problem two emails because like they would go over different things, right? Because like some of them, like for example, I used to get a lot of, a lot of sales calls of like father, son owned businesses where the son wanted to ramp it up and like come into the new age and technology and all that kind of stuff. And the father was like an old stick in the mud, right? And so like that was a really specific problem bucket that I had. And so I created like testimonials and around that specifically, right? And so I had like, I knew from my first call who I was dealing with. And then I would have a specific like nurture sequence in between those calls for those people. And my close rate skyrocketed because I just thought about it more. Now that's something that everyone can do because like I was just a sales rep and I just did it. I didn't like ask permission to do it, I just did it because like I can do that. What's wrong with that, right? I logged into the portal, went through, looked at specific problems. Like a lot of it was like finance and admin. So I go like through all that stuff, you know, just kind of overview, touch on it. I didn't want to show them everything because that would overwhelm them. And then, you know, my show up rates were higher. I went from, I went to like, I had like 80 show rates. Cool too. And then I had really good close rates. I think they were like 50 plus. Like once I had all that in place and that was pretty decent sales, but it just created a much more bespoke process for people that was much better thought out than something generic and like what they had in place. You know, the problem is like most people are just too lazy to think to do that. But like I don't want to have to work stupid hours. So like I, for me, I just don't understand the mentality of not doing it. I really, it baffles my brain because it's so much easier just to do it. Then you get more show ups, you get more people buying, then you can work less and make more money. What I mean. But people are more than happy to kind of just grind it out. I guess maybe the thinking is the hard part. People don't like thinking. I don't know. But that's just kind of the, kind of the way it is. But does it, does that make sense? That's perfect. That's perfect.

Thank you.

Yeah. All right, cool. Let's kind of go through, let's go through. Ben, let's kind of have a look at your sales process. And then I want to sort of tease out information from you, right? And sort of go like, okay, what about this? What about this? What about this? To kind of show you guys like what you may or may not be thinking of when it comes to kind of mapping out. Because I'm a big fan of like probably over detailing everything and then you can kind of chunk it down over time. But if you kind of think of everything, you're like, oh well this could happen, this could happen. You know, I mean then you can start to create a little bit map and then even if you just like manually track everything for, for a while, like you kind of get a pretty good idea. You don't need to set any sort of automatic tracking stuff up. Like I never did. I just always use like Google Forms and stuff. And chatgpt these days can make you Google forms. You know that you can make your JSON files that you can export into Google Forms. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's fucking dope. Alrighty, Ben, let's go through your sales process.

Sweet.

So where do you want to start? Start at the beginning. So how many lead sources do you have?

See, we get leads either Facebook, YouTube, email campaigns, and Instagram ads. Those are the main four.

Okay, cool. With. With your, like, Facebook and all that kind of stuff. Do you. Do you have like, webinars? Do you have like, long. Is it. Is there. Is there multiple types of advertising, like. Or is it just like, straight kind of. Like, is there ones that have applications or ones that have, you know, like, are there differences?

It's all the same. So it all is just one ad that funnels to a landing page. And then the landing page has a form, and then obviously, like, it has different income levels. And then those leads get routed based on the answers on. On the intake form. And there's always like 10 to 20 different types of ads running.

Are those being UTM'd at all? Like, are they. Are they tracked independently so you could see the specific lead source from that lead?

Yes. Yeah. So in ghl, whenever the application comes in, we see which ad it came through. So we have like a 10 million Facebook funnel. There's like a no BSL ad funnel. There's like an Instagram ad funnel. And then the organic stuff comes in and it's different colors, like email, whatever.

The majority of the actual lead volume comes from.

Oh, Facebook ads for sure.

Yep. And then where would you say the majority of the sales come from?

Majority of the sales come from Facebook ads of people who are making 250 grand a month or more.

Okay.

But are spending less than 50 grand a month in ad spend.

Do you have any filters in the CRM set up to be able to see whenever the those leads come in?

I don't personally, but I know that the operations team does.

Okay, cool. It's good to have that personally, just so you know, like, I don't know if, you know, uncomfortable as. Yeah, so it's always good to have that. Now, do they do what happens to the people that fill out an application and don't book?

We have SDRs that attack those lists.

Okay. Have you bribed any SDRS to give you the good stuff?

Always trying to. Yeah. We've got. They've got the system set up so it's even tiered the. Those type of bookings. So it's. Obviously, it goes to the top closer first, then second, then third, based on availability.

Okay, makes sense. And have you. What's the, like, what's the one where the sales come from? Sorry. So the sales come from mainly Facebook ads for like. Like Avatar. And then is there a show rate for each. For each one. Like, is one of them particularly better or worse than the other ones?

Good question. I actually looked at this last month. Not. It varies much more by rep than it does by lead source. Although the, the 250k plus with 50k plus in ad spend, like the really big whales, they actually like 20 less than the other types. Okay.

And they're better leads you would think.

Theoretically, but in practice, no, they're actually worse. They get routed instead of tier one.

Yeah, right. Well, they're busy. Right? Yeah, busy people have money. Yep. So like that seems like a terrible idea. I would, I would just have a different sales process for those people.

Like what would you recommend?

Well, I mean I would like. So what is it? The two cold closed now, one cold close?

No, it's. Well, it's a little weird. It's like it's a one call but really the, the executive team really pushes the seven day money back addendum. So it's almost like we're closer setters, so. Or setting them up to meet with a strategy team with like a minimum deposit that's fully refundable. If they don't like the strategy call.

Okay, that's okay. But whatever. So, but yeah, like, so if you've got a high quality of lead, like someone who ticks your box in your avatar, but the sales process that you have doesn't, you know, I mean, doesn't gel with them. Yeah. Then like it's because like the sales process is wrong for that for the flat avatar. So they're showing a low percentage of the time. It's because like busy people, especially like successful busy people, their calendars fill up. So also what ha. I don't know if everyone knows this, but in 2023 the Google calendar rules changed, right. So that it doesn't auto accept the invite, they have to press the button. So like what is there in place to ensure that that happens? Or can I immediately call those people right. The second they book in and say hey, don't forget to like add this to your calendar. Because if they don't, it's just gonna like get like if it doesn't add to my calendar, if I don't get something to be like, hey, press this button to add to calendar, I'm for sure gonna no show like 100% of the time by mistake. Right. So like for you as a sales rep, those no shows, that would be my gold list. Like I would be hunting those people left, right and center right. Hey, I saw that. We probably, you know, you're a busy guy, we probably didn't give you many options. Hey, I'm more than happy to be like fully accommodating when works to Catch up, right? Yeah. And so like that's a, that'd be a great resource for like high quality lead flow that you can just hop on the phone and close. Like it'd be super simple, right? But you should change the sales process for those people because like, different. Like I think one thing that people do wrong is that they treat good leads and bad leads the same. Right. So good leads require very little in the name of like follow ups and like, you know, like nurture sequences, stuff like that. Right. So, and I, I can see it like on dialer, I can see when a business has good leads and shit leads, right. One of the things that affects pickup rate is just good leads and bad leads. And I never would have thought that before beforehand. Like I said, well, it's just unknown people calling unknown numbers, right? But like my, sort of, I, I think that good leads probably opt into less, right? They're probably more, you know what I mean? And they're more switched on. And so like, for example, like I've got businesses, exact same system, 10 pickup rates, exact same system, 25 pickup rates, no difference in like lead flow setters, nothing. Like that's just their leads are way better. Like, sorry to tell you, that's just the way that it is. They're just way better at marketing and they produce just a much higher quality of lead, right? Much higher levels of intent. Even though it's an unknown number calling someone, like, it's not like it's Brandon, so they can't pick up or not. But it's just those people just pick up more, right. For whatever reason. Right. And so, you know, those things play huge roles and then. Okay, cool. So in your sales process, like what is, I would want to know, like, what's the show rate? I guess you're already doing the show rate per time of day, which is a big one, right? And you figured out Monday mornings, Friday afternoons or so. For me, I'm doing like, I'm gonna do like referral calls Friday afternoon. So everyone that I've sold, I'm just gonna start smashing them for referrals. And especially if you're selling those kind of business owner type SMB types, right? I would be smashing them for referrals nonstop, right? Like I smash people for referrals. I smash them. My follow up is relentless, right? Like I, I had a really, really like quite large intro like two days ago, like, because I asked for referrals. So I got intro and then replied no message. No message, no reply, no reply. And I just said like, hey man, like, I'm a, I'm a fucking pretty relentless sales rep. Like, this is not going to stop. So you can run or you can just like buy tired. It's up to you. And then the guy who introed me was like, you should probably just book in. It's just going to be easier, you know. And so. And they booked in. Right. So like. But I'm like that, I'm very like transparent and like I'm a sales rep. Like, I'm going to chase you. So you can be chased if you like that kind of thing or you can just give in and we can have a chat. It's up to you. And then when I ask for referrals, I ask for referrals constantly. Right. I mean. Oh, it's a weird message. Okay, cool. Yes. Okay, then what I want to know is like, what's the show? No show. Reschedule, cancellation. Right. I want to know, like the distribution of that, Are you tracking that at the moment?

No, just no show.

What's your show rate.

Team wide? I think it's like 58%. Mine's higher than that. Like 10 higher or something.

Okay. Alrighty. And then. Okay, so you got about a 65, 70 share rate.

Yeah, I mean it's kind of skewed because like you have, we have everybody's double booked throughout the whole day. And then if you, if those don't show, there's another sales calendar where we kick off bad leads. You can go look at that. And then there's also a hot transfer board as well. So like you really should have a really high show where you have like four opportunities per hour to get someone on the phone without doing any outbound.

That's wild. Yeah. What's, what's the process to get people to show up?

There's a bunch of like automation. So as soon as they book in, they get like an automated text that says, hey, can you send me over your socials? And then if they don't send their socials, like 30 minutes later, there's a text that's sent that says, hey, if you don't send me these, pretty much I'm going to cancel the call. Which is interesting. And then from there there's like a VSL that gets sent and then there's like reminders like 24 hours out the morning of and then like an hour out.

What do you think the true show rate is?

Like if you didn't account, like if it was just one to one, I don't know, probably like lower than 50% maybe.

Okay, sweet. It'd be an interesting one to check because I think what happens all the time is what I see is like a stacking of things. And like managers come in, people do stuff and they add more and add more and add more and add more and add more and add more. And ends up being a really shitty process. And like no one's even tracking the open rate of the emails, no one's tracking the response rate of the sms. So all these things are going out and they're totally useless. You know what I mean? And what I want to know is like, what's the minimum things that we can do in order to get a good outcome? I've gone into businesses that have like 25% show rates and then I've just like nuked everything but like one reminder text, that's it. And it stayed the same show up rate or it's even gone up a little bit and you're like, all right, cool, man. Like, clearly what you were doing was harmful. So let's just kind of like add one thing back into time. But like, you know, like, for you, I would, if that, if that process is, I would try and create my own completely independent one, right. That like tries to ensure that I have a higher story. Because you don't want to have to be, you know, um, you don't want to have to be like doing it that way. And then from there I just want to know the different, like how many no shows do I get versus cancellations versus reschedules? I really want to know that. Because cancellations, like is an online reputation issue almost always, right? Or the messaging is fucked up inside of it, right? Rescheduling is that you don't have good times available, generally speaking. So people are going to book times that seem convenient at the time, but like they're just trying to get a time, you know what I mean? And then from there, like no shows are. There's sort of an ethereal one, right? Like, yeah, but like a lot of the time it's because of that calendar issue, right? So yeah, there's nothing that's ensuring that they actually like do the calendar. So like I might just send myself about that calendar. Like, hey, it's been. I just thought you booked in my calendar. Just a quick reminder if you could for me just go in and hit yes to the Google Calendar. Otherwise what can happen is that someone, because it's not accepted, it doesn't block out the time on the diary, right? And then someone can get booked in over the top got it right. And it's like, okay, cool. You know, and then it's like sweet, right? All right, cool. And then from, from that, like do you know how many people you close versus how many people take that kind of money back? Guaranteeship?

Yes. So close rates are pretty low across the board. And I, from what you've said, my guess is because it's like a one call close. It's, it's that process that you don't like obviously and which I have no control over as far as like it's good and wide. So it's like a, I think it's like a 10 now average close rate across the board. What's yours? Sorry, what?

What's yours?

Oh, mine right now. Well, I was actually going to ask you this question because it was higher. We've got two charger. It's like. Yeah, yeah, it's like 12.

Something like that. How.

But yeah, so how. And they, we just throw it on the hot transfer and if somebody else had a no show then they grab that. But it's, it's. We, we lose a lot. There's a lot of people that don't get picked up through that.

You've got a solid process. But I was looking at some videos by Dan on YouTube.

Yeah.

And you guys got a solid, solid process.

No, Dan is, he's very, very numbers oriented. Which is helpful coming from a company before this where it was not that way at all. So. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were saying close rate. So mine right now is like 12. I've been trying some new stuff and been sucking because these two guys came in and they're blowing everyone out of the water. But their, their sales style is like totally opposite. They just pitch the whole time and they're closing at like 30%. And so I was trying to do some of that without losing my process and I think I did too much of their process and my close rate has dropped like 6% since I've been trying that. So I'm just trying to figure out how to problem solve that.

Just go back to what you're doing. Like don't ever try new stuff on prospects. Try it in role play scenarios. Right. And then get real comfortable with it and then have a chance to war game it first. Right. Like practice then. Yeah, like then do. Just go back to exactly what you were doing. Just revert and it will like straight good. Like good to go. If you go back up to 18. Right. That's pretty good. Then from there we can do is go, okay, what's one element. One element of what they do that I like. And then I'll add that element, right? It's like, is there like. Like, what is it about that style? Like, what's one, you know, factor? It's like, okay, cool. What they're doing is they're building extreme value or something like that, right? It's like, all right, cool, so how do I build more value? Like, how do I, you know, I mean, clearly it's not as important to, like, if they're doing no future facing, no consequence, right? Then it's like, okay, I can probably reduce some of that and then add to my pitch, you know, because, like, we don't shit on what's working. We try and go, okay, like, what's something I can do? But if you just try and change over because it's new, you'll shit the bed. And then, like, you'll take you three months to figure it out. Then, like, you're like, what the fuck's going on? So implement something that's working, you know? Right. Because if it goes like, yeah, just like, why not? Right, right, right. And then from there, like, from the people that you don't sell, how many do you end up reselling? How many do you end up selling over time?

It's like 50 of my closes are follow up.

Okay, all right. Do you know how long it takes someone to close? Usually.

It'S if they. If I ask them, what's your timeline on getting back to me on, like, moving forward? And then they tell me anywhere from one to three days, it's like 50. They're gonna do it. Anything longer than that, it's like 10 or less.

Okay, all right. And are you, like, staying in touch with them and kind of doing that stuff the whole way through? Like.

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to have a cadence where I'll, you know, ask them, okay, what's your timeline on? Like, getting that whatever logistical thing you need to do. And then I'll just like set a text or an email right there, say, oh, I'll ask them, is it cool, like, reach out to you or just want to get back to me? And then I'll like, set it to send within that time frame. And then I'll always, like, do that until they tell me to stop talking to them. At least I try to.

Okay, all right, cool.

50.

Pretty high. That means that, like, you're probably not pushing that hard, you know, Not a surprise. Yeah. So I would say, like, that's a pretty clear indicator that your objection handling can be ramped up a bit, you know, yeah, if. Half of it. But I mean, if, if, if you end up getting like, change your pitch a little bit, I wouldn't change both of those things at once. I would just change the one. So, like, don't worry about the objection handling for a bit. Go back to what you were doing. Let that normalize. Then from there, like, try and add in some of that value with that, like extended pitch out and some of that stuff. Then from there, once you're happy with that, maybe that gets you from 18 to 22, 24, something like that, then you're like, okay, let me now go a little more Pam on the objection handling. And like, that should maybe get you that 30, right? And that's really how like sales, you know, optimization, sales maximization should be done. It's like, let me try and get the best leads, then let me try and get them to show up, right? Like, let me problem solve that because there's no point being really good if nobody ever turns up, right? And then we track the things that are happening. Like if I'm sending emails and I'm not tracking open rates and like, you know, response rates. A really good thing to do if you want people to know people have read your email, is put in a random phrase to reply with, right? It's really common, you know, like, hey, if you read this email comment, flamingo penis or something like that, right? Like something super random, right? And then from there, like you now know. And then especially if it's like homework. By the way, don't ever call homework homework. Everybody hates homework, right? Just like, tell them it's some things that you need them to do in order to get a better outcome for the call. Who, who wants to be given homework? Anyone? Right? That has a great connotation, right? So, you know, you can call them and go, hey, did you manage to go through the stuff I sent you? Yeah, I did. Well, I don't think you did, man, because you didn't reply with flamingo P. Like, all right. Did you read the whole email? Like, yeah, yeah, I did. Are you sure? Yeah, bring it up. Okay, read it. I was like, you see what I did there? They're like, oh, yeah, I didn't read that. Right? And then like, you know, it's a pretty, it's a pretty easy one to get people to do that stuff, but you have to make sure those things are working. Otherwise we're just doing things and throwing it out into the ether for absolutely no reason, Right? So, yeah, but and then diagram it all out and then figure out like where people are falling off and where can I tick them up? Because right, if you can, if you can crack your show, right. And then you can definitely put in a bucket where you go after those leads that no show from. The ones that are like the top tier leads that'll you should be able to like just on a weekend for an hour, go through and book yourself four or five fire calls. You know, it's like pretty simple and straightforward. Yeah. And then incrementally make those changes and hopefully, hopefully our young Ben will become a man one day.

Hopefully.

One only hope.

What, when you said, you know, when you talked about that process, the seven day money back, being gay, how would you, how would you fix it?

I just, I don't, I don't like those things. I don't like money back guarantees. I don't think that they're required at all in the slightest. I think that like I, I don't think you would need it to sell it. And I think if you do need to sell it, why do you need it and sell that? Like, what's wrong with the value proposition? What's wrong with the positioning of the offer? Ultimately what we'll decide whether an offer is like easy or hard to sell and how complex you have to go with it is the offer positioning which you can't control. This is more like FYI stuff like, but people with great businesses, like you can go into some great businesses and like everything is. And you're like, it's just killing it. You're like, what is going on here? It's like, yeah, it's a great offer. It's like, and it's not like money back guarantee offer. That's what I mean. I mean like the problem itself is so well placed in the market that it's easy. Like dialer, for example. Like, I think I'm quite good at offer positioning and like I think I position that thing perfectly. And you know, we, we have done no advertising. Like I don't have a huge following. I've got 18, 000 on YouTube and 30,000 on Instagram. And I have literally filled people to the brim with leads with no advertising, no funnels, just a website that's kind of okay, right? And we only got a CRM like two months ago, you know, and like we're by far the fastest growing dollar that's ever existed, you know. And like the list of clients I have is ridiculous. And we have a thousand users and so like it's it's just because like. But the positioning of the offer is really good. So like we get tons of leads. The sales process is pretty like long because like you just kind of chase people because the software is like, you can't really crunch them. There's people involved and then from there like I just kind of chase people around. But like I've got two sales reps and me and like, you know, we're making two sales a day for a software with no, with no marketing. And like that's just because it's a really good offer. That's it. You know, so that plays a really like large role. And if you ever, you know, so if something's really hard to sell, sometimes it's like the offer just isn't placed correctly. Not that you can control a lot of that or it means that you shouldn't sell. It doesn't mean it's even not good. But it means like that they just. It's not. There's something off about how it's being perceived or explained or whatever. Right. Or it's like a commoditized problem or something like that. Yeah. So yeah. Alex Becker says he only invests in things that are no brainer sales, you know, like you're like, oh yeah, it's a no brainer. Yep. Sweet. It's an easy sale, you know. Alrighty. Cool. Yeah. That's it for today, guys. Hope that was helpful. Go through and map it all out or don't, you know. We'll see. All right, guys, bye. Thanks.

See ya.

Bye.