Session 1 - Objection handling Course

All right, cool. Okay, I'm just gonna pin myself. Um, okay, uh, next thing I'm gonna do real quick is go— okay, so, um, the way that this will work is— and then we also have special guests, okay? So I have people coming in. Um, those times are just being filled out at the moment, but we're gonna have like Cole Gordon, he's gonna be speaking on like how to find your top offers. We're gonna have like Shane Hetherington, he's gonna come in and speak about like leadership in sales. He ran like a good chunk of the Sales Sniper crews, right? And then we're gonna have like Rode come in and talk about tonality, and Laura coming and talk about EQ. Just a whole bunch of people, um, that I really respect, like what they do. Um, and, uh, yeah, we're gonna be going over that. And then, uh, the foundation of what we're going to be doing, okay, in terms of learning the sales is the objection handling matrix, okay? Um, so I'll post that inside of the group, okay? All the communication will be inside of that group, and then I'll upload all of these recordings to the playlist, okay? I'll also stream these into the members-only area of YouTube, right? So if you do miss it, don't worry, there'll be multiple places in where you can get it, okay? Um, and, uh, you know, like, there's, there's, there's all the memberships will get access to all this stuff. Right? So, um, if you're one of the people that just signed up for the Level 1, right, I see you. You know, I'm just kidding, guys. All right, all right, you cheap fucks. Right now I'm just kidding. I'm struggling out here, guys.

Come on.

Okay, um, and like, the whole point of this, guys, is to just give a ton of value, right? I, I really— I love sales. I'm very passionate about it. Um, I don't do tons of sales training stuff anymore, although, you know, here I am. Um, but I have no interest in having a, uh, a large, you know, a large cumbersome program. And I think that, um, people can learn a lot just from getting high touch, some volume stuff going through and learning different types of sales. I don't think there's any one particular type of sale that works for anybody. I think that, um, I think that sales is just a, you know, I You know, you have to find your own style. Okay. Okay. So what we're gonna be talking about today is like objections overall, right? I'm gonna break down kind of where they come from, what they are, but then also like how, you know, fundamentally where they come from. And then we're gonna be going over like the baseline, like the baseline hierarchy of importance of how you should be thinking about objections, um, and then some of the basic dos and don'ts. So my, my point today is to sort of COVID as much as humanly possible, and then from there just, um, give you guys an opportunity to walk away from this session knowing kind of how the overarching structure works, and then from there have some, have some good takeaways, and also go over, um, uh, from a personality standpoint how you can figure out, um, you know, how like how you can figure out what you should be doing and how you should be handling certain things because your personality and your, whether you're really forthright or whether you're more leaned out will play a large role in how you attack sales. Okay. So, the easiest way to, so objections are just concerns, right? And they are completely reasonable and valid. And one of the largest problems that I see within salespeople is that they will default to objections that are sort of outside of their control. So a lot of them will go to fear-based objections and they'll go to all these kind of like weird things, right? And in reality, it's sort of just like coping mechanisms for people who just couldn't sort of overcome objections. You know what I mean? Like, oh, like that person had a bad mindset. Oh, that person had bad fear. They're a bad lead. All right. So there, the first thing you must realize when it comes to getting good at objections is there is nothing that you can say or do that will make somebody do something. You cannot make them buy. You don't have that kind of power and authority over them. And so like what that does is you, like, that's what detaching from the sale is. It's not that like you don't need the commissions, it's that You cannot make them buy, right? And as soon as you kind of realize that, then you stop, um, getting frustrated with people. Frustration is the main reason why people can't overcome objections, because they don't know how quite how to articulate themselves. They think that they can— they think that they know what's best for the person, Okay. And then from there, you think that like through some sort of verbal wizardry, you can, you can make someone do something. That's just not the case. Okay. So we'll break that down into a couple of things. First of all, like you don't know what's best for them. I like, I guarantee you, you just don't know. You might have an inkling and you might have a passionate thought, but you don't know. And you have to release yourself of that. Otherwise, handling objections consistently is very difficult. Because there's always an element of venom behind what you say, and there's an intent behind what you say. Whereas if all you're doing is curiously going through and asking questions, okay, then it's, you know, it's, it's quite difficult for you to sound— right, it's quite difficult for you to sound frustrated. It's like, oh, okay, well, like, help me understand that so-and-such. And so you, you don't end up in this, like, combative environment. And you can get away with asking a lot of quite pointy questions, but because the intent is not designed for you to go, I know what's best, I need to get you over here. Okay. Like that doesn't go over with people. You're looking at people's life through a 45-minute keyhole and you have very little context over what's going on. And so the thought that you know what's best for them after such a short period of time is a very egotistical way of looking at the world. Okay. And so once you let that go, you start to sort of like loosen up a little bit and you start to connect better with the prospect. And also you stop putting an expectation on yourself that like you have to close every deal because the outcome is very much out of your control. What you're looking to do in sales and objection handling is become consistent. Okay, I've used analogy a lot, but if I'm shooting a gun, right, because I used to be a sniper, right? If I'm shooting a gun and a random gust of wind comes and moves the bullet off course, I didn't do anything wrong, so I have no adjustments to make. So I have— if I then make an adjustment off that and the gust goes away because it was random, I'm going to miss. Now I've done something to miss. And that's a lot of the time, the kind of feedback loops that people get into. And so they don't, they don't know how they just need to do a thing consistently. Your whole job is to minimize variables. Okay. So the way that I teach objections is to sort of ignore a little bit of what the prospect says, right. And follow a process. Now you're going to listen to them, but a lot of the time you're listening to way too much of what they're saying, because they're giving you 10 different things at once. And you're trying to handle all of them at once and you can't really do it that way effectively. And so what we want to do is we want to like let that ego go. Just understand that like there, you don't know what's best for them and that you can't wizard them into doing stuff, right? What you can do is learn a process that creates consistent and predictable answers from your prospect, and then learn how to probe on the answers that give you the best chance of being able to get them to convince themselves to do something. Okay. And if you make 10 sales in a row, you are the same sales rep as if you then make 10 no sales in a row. Congratulations, you closed the 50%. Okay. If you're a 30% closer, which would be good. Okay. 7 out of 10 say no. So those nos shouldn't affect us and you shouldn't be frustrated at the people who say no. Sometimes they just don't have the money. And a lot of the time when someone has like a fear-based objection, it's just a lack of value proposition. Okay. All right, cool. So first things first, hierarchy of objections. There are many different types. Money, logistical is always the hierarchy. That is the most important objection because it is the objection 90% of the time. Okay, so like if they want to go away and think about it, what do they want to go away and think about? Anyone want to type in the chat? Right, they want to think about spending the money. If they want to go and talk to their partner, what do they want to talk to their partner about? Spending the money. Okay, okay, so if it's a timing thing, it's going to be around, do I have the money right now? Okay. So it always comes down to money. That's, that's the most common objection. And it's the one that I think people spend the least amount of time on. Okay. And so the first principle is that we want to like just remove the objection. Okay. So money aside, right? Do you feel like this would be the answer? Okay. So money aside, now when it comes to objections, when it comes to sales in general, people use a lot of extra filler words. I want you guys to really practice over this next 8 weeks of using as minimal words as possible. Every single word is an opportunity for you to fuck up the intention of your word. Okay, so if I add in random words, right, it adds a layer of complexity to that sentence of which the interpretation of the meaning can be muddled. If I say money aside, do you feel like this would be the answer? It's a very clear and easy question to answer. If I say, okay, so what I'm hearing you say is that money right now might be an issue. So if we were to, I guess, remove that, right? And money was not the issue, do you feel like what we're doing would be the best for you? It's like, it's fucking word salad. Okay. And like, it's, it's just all it does is like, it leaves tons of variables open for interpretation and people can take the meaning that they want. Okay, if I say, why is that important to you now though? And if I say, why is that important to you now though? And if I go, why is that important to you now though? Okay, first one, neutral, you pick the meaning. Second one, tangible, that you will, you will say. Last one, you will answer in terms of time frame. Okay, like you just will about 90% of the time. Okay, and so the slight inflection, pacing, and pausing and tonality shifts that we do within a sentence will have a large impact on how that person derives that, like, the actual answer. Okay. All right. But we want to— we want softeners, Matt Ryder. Maybe, possibly, likely, etc. Well, maybe, you know, that's the answer. Okay. So one of the— if you guys have never been involved in coaching before, I am not a big fan of definitives. Okay. So I'm going to answer this question because it's a good question. Softeners. Okay. Like possibly so neutral words. Neutral words are only good if you're a, or neutral words are best if you're a forthright person. Okay. If you are someone who is leaned out and very like passive as a person, okay. And maybe it's soft-spoken, you will sound like you don't know what you're talking about. Forthright means— okay, I'll give you an example. Uh, raise your hand or put, put a me in the chat and be honest. Yeah, and because there's not a good or a bad here, okay? There's no good or bad. Put a me in the chat if you will, uh, tell someone to get out of a line if they cut. Right, right. Me. And again, isn't it— it's not a good thing or a bad thing. Okay. If you would, then you're probably more forthright. You're probably someone who is more pushy in general. Okay. So neutral language is likely to be good for you. Put it— no. Okay. So put a 1 in the chat if you're someone who would never do that. Now, again, that's not a bad thing because if everyone was like that, it'd be horrible. Okay. So if you're like that, then chances are neutral language will make you sound like a pussy. Okay, which means that like when it comes down to like pitching, uh, you sort of might not sound like you know what you're talking about and you don't have the confidence and conviction. Okay, and so there's a, there's a slider there, you know. Generally speaking, more definitive terms towards the end is probably better, right? Like being much more confident and forthright towards the end. Okay. But if you're putting in, you don't need to put in like qualifiers like that, you know, maybe, possibly, might be when you're in objection handling, because like the veil, the whole point of those things is to like, hey, I'm not a sales rep. Right? Like, I'm not a sales rep. Okay. You've pitched, you've asked for money. Right? So like that's gone. And now we're in a very tactical sort of, uh, part of it where we need to get them to convince themselves. And so we have to go through a very, very precise series of questions. Okay. So you remove the objection, money aside, this could be the answer. Okay. Uh, the reason why we do that is because we want them to go back through and want to start a process of reestablishing value. Okay. All right. So the reestablishing of the value is the, one of the key components to all objection handling. Because you need that person to start thinking in terms of like, what are the things that I need, whether it's software, whether it's like coaching, whether it's, you know, like, you know, widgets. Okay, what is it about what I've presented that we're gonna— we're gonna talk about the benefits of that, but you're gonna tell me which elements are most important to you, and you're gonna tell me why. Okay, because if we don't do it that way, then we're going to end up having a lot of quite odd conversations. I will actually roll back real quick though. Okay. Now this is a lot of this stuff is, um, if you guys sell things that have financing or payment plans, okay. If you pitch and say, and there's payment plans available, there's financing available, there's flexible payment terms available. If you say that when you pitch, it will be very difficult for you to overcome objections. Okay, it's very difficult because if I say to you, if I go, Mark, uh, Daniel D, okay, if I go, so like, unmute yourself, right? If I go like, if you just pitch me and go, hey man, like, there's payment plans available, how do you want to proceed?

Yeah, payment plans.

Yeah. So like, yeah. So what you're going to do is every time that person's going to go, what payment plans do you have?

Yeah.

Okay. Or they're going to go, hey, like, what's the financing? And then what you're doing is having a logistical inane conversation about something that we have not established they actually want. Does that make sense, everybody? So when you pitch, you pitch like your full price. Okay. You also need to pitch the full price if you're selling something like coaching or whatever, or something that has already like software that has like a paid-in-full discount.

Okay.

So it's like, hey, there's like annual pricing, whatever. Pitch the most expensive version in the total number. Okay. You know, so like if it's a 3-pay and it's the 3-pay is $10 grand, but the 2-pay, but the 1-pay is $8,000. Don't pitch it at $8,000, okay? And then go, hey, you know how you don't have money? Well, I'm going to charge you more because you don't have enough, okay? There needs to be a paid-in-full incentive, okay? Not a payment plan, you know, interest, okay? If you guys got questions on that, let me know. I can do like a separate video on it, but you want to make sure that you do the most important one. Is it like a rose marinade type thing, uh, price at the top? Uh, so the way that I would do it, uh, in order to give yourself the best chance, okay, is, is if, if whatever payment structures you have, the most expensive version, okay, like, so if it's 3-pay, 5-pay, whatever, you say the most expensive number, right, as a, as a, as a one-off. You just go, hey, it's $10,000 out, like, you know, yada yada yada yada, like, like, how do you want to proceed? Okay. Then from there, you would go through because you want to establish that value. Then from there, when you, if they give you a price, like a money objection, you can go, okay, money aside, you feel this is the answer. Why is that? Yada, yada, yada. And then you can start to drop. Okay. But if you don't establish the initial value first, okay, if your price is $150K presented monthly delivers well, absolutely it does. That's fine. And if that's how you want to sell it, that's good to go. Okay. So it just depends on like, there's obviously nuances to everything, but if you're saying things like you want to try and avoid giving, you want to try and present things in a way where the most predictable outcome is either planned for or something that is easier to work with, because if you say, you know, there's payment plans available. If you present it as a monthly payment— hey, it's $120,000 divided over 12 months, how do you want to proceed? Because that's how it's done. That's totally fine, you know what I mean? But as long as you have ways to, to move things down, it makes it a lot easier, right? Because you can go, hey, is it the upfront amount? If I broke that up, would that help you out? Oh, what? Also, if you don't— if you, if you don't present paid in fulls, you're never going to get them. Or you have to massively incentivize them. So you can play around with it a bit, but you want to avoid inducing objections early that mask the actual concern, which is like, hey, you know, like, so what are the finance terms available? Oh, okay, cool. All right, well, I'm going to go away and have a look at that, just do my calculations, you know. And then it's like, now you've spent 5 minutes dealing with bullshit. Okay. All right. So, okay, so we'll go like, so money aside, do you feel this could be the answer? Yes. Okay. Why is that? Now, one of the important things there, okay, that you guys want to note is that they are going to say yes almost every time. If they say no, you've done something drastically wrong in the sale, right? So like we're way off base. Okay. So they say yes. Now you might hear them start to trail off. You guys know when someone has a but coming?

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Interrupt them immediately. The moment you hear the yes, you interrupt them. Okay, why is that? Now this is a practice thing and it sounds easy, but it's actually not easy to do. Okay, it's a very, very important skill set, especially in objection handling, right? Oh, like, why is that? Okay, so you, you interrupt them, right? So the sun is gonna kill everyone. All right, so, okay, because the way that humans work is that they haven't finished that thought yet. Okay, like they, they truly haven't. I promise you, you think and speak in real time, okay? Unless you're like Jordan Peterson, who seems to form his complete sentences and then talk, okay? So, um, you do that. So you, you cut it off because there's a but coming, but they haven't got to it yet, okay? So you cut that off. Now, it's not— don't always do that. Sometimes if the but— if you can tell the but's going to be positive, okay, then like, like let them ride with it, okay? But generally speaking, in objection handling, especially at that time, you go, why is that? Right. Then what they have to do mentally is they have to go back up and they have to go, well, I guess this, right? And then you go, what is it specifically though that you feel like is kind of the key to the castle for you? Okay. So then ask them a question where they have to dive into their memory and think about what do I find most valuable? Okay. What is it about this thing? Okay. And then from there, cause they're reestablishing value. Then from there you go, okay, like why that thing? So again, establish, get deeper. When somebody has an idea that's really good for the outcome that you want, you want to probe and ask questions about it because it strengthens the idea. Okay. That's just how human beings work. Have you ever seen a debate? No one changes their mind. Okay. So if you can't change someone's mind, right, which is because it's very difficult to do so, you have to get them to take themselves through a process where they are the ones convincing themselves. And they do that by having an idea and then you strengthening it through pushing back on them a little bit and through probing them. Okay. Makes sense to everyone. Okay. So once you've gone through that step, Okay, then we go, okay, so what are some ways that we can come up with the funds to where you can get— and then you say the exact thing that they just said they need in order to get the outcome that they want, whether it's a feature in the software, whether it's a feature in the program, whether it's accountability, whatever it may be. Okay, you get them to go, okay, so what are some ways that we can come up with the funds to where you can, you can actually get that? Okay. Now if you hear that tone, it's nice and light. Okay. What I'm not doing is going, okay, so, so how do you, how do you get that? Okay. It's like, it's too much. Okay. You're, you're not trying to like induce a massive amount of emotion here. What you're trying to do is get them to happily continue the conversation and just take you, take them down the line. Okay, you can get to emotional stuff later, but at the moment it's just not required, right? This is a normal part of your day. You're not surprised or concerned by it because it is totally and reasonable that they would have a concern about spending money given the fact that most sales cycles are fairly short, right? This is a legitimate and normal and reasonable thing. Okay, it doesn't mean it's like the way that it has to be, but you know, you guys get what I'm saying. Okay. Then from there. So once we, and then once we asked that question, so what are some ways we'd come up with the funds? We're now on the same side of the table. Okay. The best thing that you can do is be on the same side of the table. Okay. It's two people trying to solve a problem because we've gone through, had a call, established the needs, the wants, all that kind of stuff, done our presentation. Said, hey, this is how we solve your problems. This is the investment required. This is the funds required to solve your problems. Okay, you have a concern. Okay, but if the concern wasn't there, do you feel like this would be the answer? Yes. Why is that? Okay, perfect. What is it specifically? This? Okay, why that? Oh, that makes sense. Hey, what are some ways that you think that we can come up with the funds to where we can actually get that? So you can. And it's like, oh, and then you start thinking and talking. Hey, would you mind if I make a suggestion? Yeah, sweet. Well, you know what a lot of our clients do, yada yada, is they do something like this. Like, would that work? No? Okay, cool. Okay, is it the upfront amount, or if I broke that up for you, like, would that make it easier? Oh, you can do that? So see how it's like easier to roll a ball down a hill, right, than push it up? So if I start at the payment plan and I like— I'm never pushing it up to a PIF, right? But if I started the PIF and I established the value, okay, then I can go, okay, well, if I broke it up, like, would that help you out? Now, the reason why I like to start off with the most expensive version is it sounds like it's harder to go like, well, you know, it's $150K if you pay for 12 months. It's like, you know, it's like, yes, it sounds like it's harder, but that's the overall value anyway. So like, I'd rather have someone agree and establish the value to the entirety of the program. Right. There's a sales call with Cardone where he hops on and says like, oh, I guess it's only $2,500 a month. And he said, no, you're not making a $2,500 decision. You're making a $30,000 decision. Big boy decisions, big boy results, right? And I was like, that's a really good way of looking at it because it's like, I want them to be bought in on the entirety of it, not just like the fact that they can break it up, right? That's like, that's where financing breaks reps. Like, you know, like where you can break it up over 3 years or 2 years or whatever, like that financing element, it breaks them because people start to sell based off not the value and like the actual sales call, but they based off like the fact that it's like ridiculously affordable and so like a no-brainer. That's not selling, that's being a checkout chick. Okay, so like, because if we can then break it down and go, oh, okay, like, if I could break it up for you, like, would that help? Now the issue is if I then have to go, well, if I break it up for you, it's not 20% more expensive. So you, the broker that doesn't have the money, yeah, it's more expensive for you, brokey. Okay, so like, that doesn't seem like the best framing for me. I never liked that, so I always just went with the most expensive version. Right. Then from there allowed me to drop to a payment plan. And that payment plan was the same cost, right, that they already knew about. So I never got the objection, well, I'm just going to wait till I can pay in full. Right. Because that's a really annoying objection because my process from there is then to get them to do the payment plan and then say, oh, I get the first payment or the, you know, whatever it is. Then I'll offer them the paid-in-full incentive after I get the first payment, right? Oh hey, did I mention that you actually get a bit of a discount for paying in full? No? Ah, shit, sorry, man. Yeah, so you paid this much, but if you want to pay the rest off, it's only this much more. Do you want to do that? And then I just sit there until they do it, or they don't. Either way, it's fine. Okay.

Thank you.

All right. So this is all scripted as well. So you guys don't have to worry. This is all like all scripted out for you guys. Like it's totally fine. Okay. So, but what I wanted to do is kind of go over and be able to kind of show the process. Okay. And that's like, and then that's just like one objection. Then you come up with it and you go, okay, cool. So you establish it and you go, okay. So if we broke it up for you, like, would that help? Yes. Okay. Do you want to go through that? I always ask that little bit of extra. They go, if I broke it up for you, would that help? Yes. And do you want to go through that? Yes. Okay. Hey, it's totally normal. I normalize it. It's totally normal. A lot of people that are coming to us for XYZ, you know, the paying that in full is just like not an option for most people. So it's totally fine. So what we generally do for people is this, and then I offer a 2-pay. And then I will listen if they're like silent, I can go and we can do some other ones if you want. You know what I mean? I can do a 3, whatever. Okay. Like drop, but I don't want to go to like a 27 pay straight away. Okay. I want to kind of drop down nice and controlled. If I get to the chance where I've offered 2 or 3 options and they're like, ah, I'm like, hey man, I can't hit a target that I can't see. Like, where are we at? Is this way out of the realms of possibility? Or like, we need to, you know, just, if you just help me out, then I can help you out. Because at that point, we can drop the veil and we can have a normal conversation with somebody. They need it, they want it, they want to figure out a way to pay for it, they understand the value, right? And now it's like, we just have to figure this out. Nick, you got a question? Yeah, real quick, do you ask for their cash on hand before— to— no, before, no. This is a real dangerous game. Um, we— I need to establish that they that they are really bought in. Yeah, like after that, I'm saying. Yeah, like for sure.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So I'll be like, okay, cool. So can you help me out with like with what cash you have on hand and what you think that you can put towards this? I don't want you not to be able to eat. That's ridiculous. So like, what do you actually have? And then like, you know, what do you have coming up? And then maybe we can figure this out, right? You just want to have a really genuine, open, and normal conversation and normalize it and be as normal as possible. It is a very unpleasant thing for everybody to have to talk about not having enough money to do something. Okay? And so you don't want to make anyone feel bad about that. So you want to normalize it and just be really cool and go, "Oh dude, it's totally normal. Like, don't worry about it." You know what I mean? It's an important part because a lot of the time, like, people take these posturing frames, right? And it's just such a load of bullshit. Whereas like, you have to— sort of play the ball that you're given, you know? And so if someone needs to be smacked down a little bit, you can smack it down. Someone needs to be built up a little, you need to build them up. But if someone needs like empathy and they need you to like be understanding, you can't make someone feel bad. If your goal is to like win the argument, you're gonna— you're not gonna make a lot of sales. You, you like, even if you know you're right, it just doesn't matter. Right? It, it just has no bearing on the conversation, right? That's a real young man's thing, right? And I need to be right. Look at this guy's mindset, he's a fucking idiot. Okay, it's like, no, no, like everyone has, you know, where there's a lot of decisions that's gone behind everybody to be in the place and where they're in, and you just don't know. Like if you have shitty parents that like hate people with money, you will like spend a very long time destroying any opportunities to make money, right? It's just kind of the way that it is, like, you know. And so, you know, just be empathetic with people and just be real with people, okay?

And then from there, okay, so, um, yeah, Brody, dude, can you just walk me through that one last part? So after, if we broke it up without help, do you want to go through that? Yeah, perfect. Normalize it. That next part there, are you offering your preferred pricing structure or are you framing it as though, okay, in terms of breaking it up for you, is there a preferred way that makes the most sense that you can get the help you need? Are you giving them the honors or taking it?

No, I'm gonna take that 'cause I wanna drop it quite precisely. I'm gonna offer like a 2, a 3, I'm gonna drop. I'm also gonna get a bit of a gauge as to like how they react. So if I offer a 2-pay, and they go, I'm going to go, what about a 4? You know what I mean? So like, I'm going to, I'm going to kind of play the field a little bit there. But if I go to 2 and they go, oh yeah, like that could work. I'm like, are you sure? So I'll push back a little bit. Are you sure? And they go, yeah. And you go, okay, like, how do you want to proceed? Right. You know, and then I just reestablished it. Okay. So 2 payments of XYZ would work within your current budget. Yes, it would. How do you want to proceed? Now, Mark, before I get to you, the difficulty is during that exchange, they are going to give you other objections. Partner, think about it. Timing. You ignore all of them. That is a difficult thing to do. And I know it's a little bit antithetical for most people. You literally ignore them. Okay. Like you keep going down your pathway, right? Kali, I wasn't expecting that. Yes, you ignore what they're— the reason being is because the— from the thousands of core reviews I've done on objection handling, most people will get sidetracked halfway through and never resolve any of them, right? So just once, like, it's, um, objection handling is far more dictatorial than the rest of the code. So like, I would just straight up ignore things that I don't want to talk about in objection handling. Just ignore it completely. I will like, it didn't exist, didn't happen. Right? So if they're like, if I'm dealing with money and they start going, oh yeah, you know, I'm like, okay, so money aside of this would be the answer. Yes, it would. Why is that? Yada, yada, yada. Okay. So what are some ways we can come up with the funds? But yeah, I could probably come up with it. I just need to go away and check with the partner. I'd be like, okay, so like, you know, I would just go back through and I completely ignore the fact that they said partner. In my head, I've noted it because I know that that's going to be their next objection. Okay. But I'm just going to keep ramming them down because at the end of it, I want— so this, so this payment plan, this payment structure would work within your current budget? Yes. Okay. I'm not asking them to do it. I'm saying it would work. Okay, and they might go like, well, I'd have to check with the finance. Okay, well, based off what you know right now though, like ballpark figures, obviously you can go and dot the i's and cross the t's later, but based off what you know, you know, do you feel like this would— this could work? They're like, yeah, you know, I'd have to just check things. Go, okay, well, do you know how much money you make? Yep. All right, well, do you know which one you have? Yep. What do you think it'll work? Right, I'm just going to keep asking that question in different ways until they go, oh yeah, yeah, I suppose it'll work. Okay, what do you want to do from here? Right, because now it's the next objection. Yeah, I just have to go away and speak to my partner. Okay, when you go to your partner, like, what do you need to talk about? Does that make sense? Like, I'm just fucking ramming them down because I have to resolve that line. And I— if they— even if they give me other objections, I'm going to do money first anyway. Right. Because money is like my backstop. Okay. So if they go, yeah, hey Matt, you know, this sounds really good. Whatever they need to do, just kind of go away, speak to my accountant, my partner, just kind of make sure that like, you know, my chakras are aligned and just make sure the finances and all that kind of stuff lined up. So what do you want to do from here? Like get back in 2 weeks, send me an email and stuff. I'll be like, yeah, money aside though, do you feel like this is the answer? I ignore everything and just go money aside.

Right.

The reason is because It's money wrapped in a bunch of shit, right? And so like, I'm just gonna handle that thing and like, I'm gonna go through and I'm not gonna get sidetracked at all. You know, go back through and listen to a bunch of your old calls, guys, and hear yourself get 50% down through a money objection and then go over here and then get 30% through a partner objection and then go over here and then get 25% through a money, through like a timing objection. Then go and do this fucking, like, fear-based smokescreen bullshit reframe thing for 30 minutes to then have them go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but like, I just need to figure the money part out, right? And it's like, fuck's sake. So like, your backstop is money. Nothing else matters until you've established the financial parameters of the deal. Nothing matters. Because without that, there is no deal. There's a deal at the end of the day. Okay, uh, Brody, was that— was that— does that make sense? Did I answer that?

Yeah, yeah, it does. I was wondering, just after Mark's question, could you go through line by line again one more time, just through that sequence, just so I've got the back end? But, um, go Mark first.

For sure. Uh, Mark.

Yes, thank you, Matt Ryder. First of all, thank you for doing this training, man. It's amazing. And I have a question on what you just mentioned. Sometimes when I do payment plans, I frame it as if it's like a special case where I ask them, okay, like, what are the highlights for you? They tell me the highlights. So this is not if this will work for you, it's how you can make it work financially.

Yeah.

And so I can ask you, like, how motivated are you to follow the program to get the results? So they say like a 10. So they say, okay, in that case, I feel I can trust you. We can possibly do like a payment plan. Would that work? What do you think of this approach?

I mean, I think if it works, do it. I just think that you just want to have a way that is like replicatable. And I like, I always err on the side of the truth, right? So like for me, I've never done like last, you know, action taker discount type stuff because like, you know, if they're going to come back to me in 2 days, I'm still going to give them the price. I'm just not going to do it. I just like to have a really, um, like, and I'm not saying that you're not being honest, so I'm saying, right, it's just like, I, I'm just super straightforward with how I do it, and I don't— I, minimal fluff and talking, the better. Again, because when, when you've asked for money, it's, you know, you're— there's a— it's a very interesting dynamic shift, okay, to where the veil has been broken. And so you want to be very precise with your language. Right now, again, if it's working, I'm all for it. And if you can pull it off consistently, I like— my objection handling is so boringly monotonous. It is the same every time. Like, it doesn't change for people, nothing. I can do it asleep. It's the same, right? And Brody, like, I'll go over that whole sequence again, right? I'll just answer these two questions. But I think if you can structure it in a way where it makes sense. But I think I would have a look at, you know, if it's going sideways in any of those interactions. And then if you have to make a spontaneous value judgment on whether or not something will work on somebody, like, it's a difficult one to do consistently, right?

One of the features that you can use all the time, right?

Yeah, exactly. Got it. Thank you. Yeah. All right, uh, Joe.

Oi oi, mate, how you doing? Uh, question is, so there's this new, um, like, financing thing on our offer where it's called Split It, where like essentially They don't need to have a good credit score and there's like no interest involved. So it's like the same price if they split it over 12 months. So I know when you were saying earlier about, you know, going for like a 2 pay first before going into the others. Obviously if I do a 2 pay, I can't do split it for that. So I'm literally like half of my commissions. Would you, with the split it considered, would you recommend just asking them like what they can commit on a monthly basis and then going into Yeah, so this is an interesting nuance, right?

To where like, there's a what's right for the business, what's right in sales, and what's right for your bank account. If you have a, like, I would still pitch the full price, right? But like, if they couldn't afford a genuine PIF and I got more money through putting it through Splitit, I'd probably put it through Splitit. Right. But I would do it as like, hey, this is the other way that, you know, this is, this is the way that we can do it. Right. Like, would this work for you? And that would be my payment plan option. Right. So paid in full because like, for example, like a wire paid in full is better than a credit card paid in full because there's no transaction fees. Yeah, that. And also there's no chargebacks. Yeah.

Right.

And then so like wire paid in full is best, then credit card paid in full. Then, you know, whatever the, you know, best option is from there financially. And like, you should definitely do things that benefit you financially, right? Yeah, I mean, so if you don't get trailing comms, you know what I mean, like 2 pays and 3 pays and stuff like that, then don't do that. Um, so yeah, I would, I would go paid in full price, establish that value, you know. Hey, is it the upfront amount, or if we could break it up, would that help you? Yes. Sweet. Well, we do have this pretty cool thing, you know, it's called Split It, and what we do is we actually break it up for you over 12 months. Like, would that help you out? Yes, it would. Okay, perfect. All right, make it make sense. All right, cool. Sean? All right. Hey, Matt.

Hello.

See everybody's beautiful and handsome faces. Uh, got a really, really— yeah, I mean, I love being me. I get to do whatever I want. Go ahead. So I've got a good question. So Usually when, for example, let's say when I give it, when I pitch the service/product, and then once they, once it's done, I ask, how does that suit you? How do you feel about this? Or you feel that this could be the answer for you, quote unquote, and then they say yes, and I ask why, and they give a reason why. And then later on, after they give the reasons, then they give the objection. Do you still go, oh, but money aside, But because money aside, would you, would you, would you want to do this when you already stated what they said previously? So the answer is yes, but that's where like having different ways of saying the same thing work. What are you doing? Sorry, my son. Um, so yeah, you need to have— so like, like if I'm going to go through and someone like, you know, does, um, right, if someone's like, you know, if I'm doing money objection, hey, money aside, right? And then I— and someone comes through with like the partner, right? Right. And they go, and I go, okay, well, like, you know, if the partner wasn't, you know, if your partner was on board. Okay. So I'm saying the same thing, but I'm just removing the objection. Right. Makes sense. Hold on one second. All right. Okay. So that's where, like, you just have to practice saying things in different ways. This was some of that conversational flexibility exercises that I talked about that we're going to doing during this program, okay? Like, it's designed for that stuff because if you don't get an answer, if you get a non-answer, you need to keep asking the question. And that's a very, very necessary skill set for sales reps to have. It's actually a necessary skill set for anyone to have because a lot of time, like, you'll ask questions and people just don't give you answers. And it's either because, like, if you ask a vague question, you get a vague answer. Right? So, and a lot of the time, the way that sales reps in particular ask questions, they are very difficult to answer because they say, okay, so what I'm hearing you say is that, and then it's like all this fucking nonsense because you're like, I'm a sales rep and you don't sound like a normal human. And so the interpretation is very quite difficult to figure out, right? Whereas if it's really clear and concise, then you can keep going, but you just have to have different ways of doing that. Like if I ask somebody, okay, so let's just say you go to your partner and they say no. What happens then? Okay, it's a very clear question, but they're still not going to want to answer it. They're going to go, well, I don't think that'll happen. Okay, what if it does? Well, you know, like, she's really supportive and she— okay, okay, but let's just say she's had a really bad day and she's like, no. What happens then? And then it's another blah blah, and then I'm like, okay, let's just say she gets home from work. You know Becky at work? Yeah, Becky, you should have been a bitch. Becky's been a mad bitch at work all day. Your wife's come home, she's had a bad day because of Becky. And she's like, no, you're not doing this. What happens? Like stamp the foot. What happens then? Okay, so like, because I'm gonna get that answer, whether I'm not going to do it. Oh, so she's like the decision maker for the business? Well, no. Okay, but if she says no, then you're out. All right. It could be trouble. All right, so like, I'm gonna get that answer, and that's where you just have to be good at that. And it's a practice thing, you know, where you just keep asking and asking and asking and asking and asking, but it's in a way where like you're not frustrated, and it's like there's an escalation to it that gets more definitive. Okay, right. Um, all right, let's go with, uh, Ron, then, uh, Sveta.

Hey Matt, thanks for doing this. Question is for Darren there. I have a martial arts school, so we do like a paid trial, low barrier offer. They do a month for $100 basically, and then 2 weeks in we present all the other offers. We do like a belt test for the kid on the first date, etc., etc. So how I've always done it is I have 4 options, Option A, B, C, D. Option A is 30% discount. Option B is a 20% discount if they put $500 down. C is $300 down, then they get a 10% discount. And then Option D is like nobody takes it, but it's, it's got that. So I'm just curious, is that— I do, I am coming into the objection like, oh, I got to talk to my wife, or mom's not here, or that sort of thing. Is there any benefit to like, how would you deal with that type of scenario?

Are you, are you, are you presenting them all like, hey, here's your options, ABCD?

Yes.

Yeah, right.

Um, the only thing is I've been trying to like pre-frame, like preload it, because now what we've been doing is I've been, I've been kind of giving them the pricing like within the first week. Hey, do you have the pricing? Just so you know, we offer, we do an incentive if you sign up on the day. If you sign up with the VEL testing, we give you a $200 discount off any prepayment.

If I came back the next day, would you give me the discount? Probably would. Then it's not real, is it?

But, well, no, no, I, hey, I'm, you want the honest answer or the one that I'm trying to present?

The honest answer, that's what I'm saying. The honest answer.

The honest answer is I'd be like, yeah, sure.

Yeah, exactly. So like, just don't, like, so the answer is like, you know, if it's working, keep doing it. Okay. Can you optimize it? Sure. That's a lot of choice, right? You know, generally speaking, If I come to somebody, uh, you know, don't give me choices, tell me what I'm supposed to do. Okay, now when it comes to payment, like, do you get things like, oh well, you know, I'll just wait until I have the full amount, or so I can get it?

The way I structured it is like the option A is the paid in full, which is actually my real tuition rate that I want. So I kind of, instead of discounting my rate, I just made the paid in full amount what I really want. And then made everything else that much more expensive. So I'm fine whatever I get. Like, I'm kind of—

Yeah, but like, do you get people going, well, I'll wait until I have the full amount because like they get a discount for paying in full?

I've had it happen once.

Okay, well then, you know what I would do? First and foremost, like, it's again, it's hard to say if it's good or a bad way of doing it. My sales intuition tells me that's too much choice, right? Okay. To give someone upfront. My gut is to, you know, only present one price and one way of doing it. You know what I mean? Just because, you know, when you're— people are now, they have to make more than one choice. Now they have to like initially go, okay, I want to do it. And that one, you know what I mean? And that price where it's like, the first thing is like, do you want to do this?

Yes.

Okay. And now how do we pay for it? You know? So I think like maybe breaking it up. But again, if it's working really well, then like, what the fuck? To be honest, like, who cares?

Yeah. Like, we close from the trial to that at about 50 to 60%, depending on the time of year. And of those closes, about 50% of them do the paid in full.

Then I wouldn't fuck with it too much. But if there's one that no one takes, just remove it because it's just nonsense choice. Okay. Appreciate that. Just like—

Yeah, just streamline it even more.

Okay. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Sveta?

Yeah, thanks a lot for the training. Can you hear me?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, perfect. So if we talk about gym membership, there is no option for paying full, there is only option for annual contract, uh, but you pay monthly, and monthly rolling that is more expensive but also paying monthly. What would you pitch? Would you try to make it up like Cardone was doing, because I think he had the similar case. He would sell membership for his course, but he will create that big number for the, like, pay for the year.

Yeah, so they're like month-to-month rolling memberships, is that what you're saying?

Yeah, so at the end of the day, they're paying every month, but there are two options. You either have an annual contract, so you Uh, you subscribe for a year, but you pay per month, or you don't have that contract and you can like, uh, cancel any time and you pay more, but again, um, annual contract.

Then pitch the annual contract as, and then your drop sell is the month to month, right? So you're like, your, your drop is a month. Yeah, I know if it's gonna be more expensive, like, but that's an easy one to It's an easy one to verbally maneuver. Okay. It's like, right, because there's a guarantee. It's like, okay, so the way that we generally do it is we do— it's a 12-month contract for this much over the course of the year. How do you want to proceed here?

We talk about the entire—

I, I would, yeah, I would, yeah, yeah.

Okay, got it.

Yeah, you know what I mean? And then that way it might— and they might go, oh, is it up front? And go, well, it can be. Okay, would you like to do that? Do you know what I mean? And then I go, oh, and go like, money aside though, do you feel like this would be the answer? Yes, it would. Why is that? Okay, this. All right, cool. So does it make sense? Like, what is it? All right, cool. Yada, yada, yada. Like, what is it specifically? Well, it's this, this, and this. Okay, so, you know, is it the upfront amount? Or if we, if we, if we did break that up for you, like, would that help? Like, oh, you can do that? Go, yes, sweet. Yeah, you can pay monthly if you'd like. Oh, that'd be perfect. Now you've got an annual contract paying monthly, which is fantastic. And then if they then have any more objections, like a trusting or whatever like that, you can go, what we can do is since you want to kind of remove some of the, I guess, you know, some of your burden, right? That increases our risk. Okay. You know what I mean? And so, but what we're happy to do for you is if you just want to do monthly, it's this much on a monthly basis, right? But then if you want to switch over to an annual contract, then we can go ahead and knock that back down. So which one will work better for you? All right, again, it's easy to talk your way through that kind of thing, but you just want to have a starting point. And the starting point is super clear. And at the starting point is the best possible outcome for you, which is a 12-month contract paid in full. That's the GOAT.

Okay.

And it's like 12-month contract paid monthly, right? And then it's like no contract paid monthly, right? So because now you have a a systematic way of dropping, okay, to where it's intentional, it doesn't sound desperate, okay, but like it's very, very intentional. And, uh, you know, but now you have an opportunity to potentially get a 12-month paid in full, whereas like if you don't ever present that, then you'll never get it, right? Like it's very difficult to get someone to buy in a lower amount and then get them to do paid in full, you know what I mean? Mhm. You know what I mean? And again, that's just whether or not that works well for your business, for your comp structure, whatever, whatever works best. Like, you kind of want to structure around that, you know, whatever is like the most financially beneficial for you as the sales rep, right? Like, that's how you kind of want, you know, structure everything around. Again, like, the business advice is different than the sales rep's advice, you know, so you have to kind of go between those two. All right, Nick. Yeah, so, uh, like a couple weeks ago I was here and I asked you, or I told you about how when I am at the end of the call handling objections, and if it goes on for quite a while and I get them to close, a lot of the times they wake up and they say, I want my money back, like the next day. And you mentioned that I should get them to tell me that they want to do it more. Like more than once. How do you, how do you do that? What is the way to do that? Uh, uh, be better at sales. No, no, no, the real answer is like, so throughout the process you can, um, you want to sort of get someone to, to tell you through, throughout the process multiple times that they want it, they need it, they need it now. Okay. And so the way that you do that is just through like little tiny probes. Okay. So it's like, hey, I want to lose some weight. Okay, how much weight? How much you want to lose that for? Okay, why now? Okay, like, and you want to like lose that weight now or later? Now. Why now? Okay, that makes sense. Like, it's that, it's, it's that casual. So you weren't saying that for when I'm after handling the objection and like right before they're about to pay? That's the way I took it when you told me that. The entire call. Okay, yeah, I'm kind of doing that already. Like, yeah, but maybe, maybe, maybe not very well. Um, you know, so if you're getting a lot of refunds, you're either pushy, right? Like that, like you just, you're just pushing people. So you have to have a look at like, well, if there's 10 people that I sell and 3 of them I fucking railed on them, Yeah, right. Chances are 2 out of those 3 are gonna— and I'm happy with that math, right?

You're happy?

Really? Like, are you? Like, well, no, I'm saying, yeah, that's the question you could ask yourself. Am I happy with that math? Because if I make 10 sales and 3 of them I know I was pretty rough with, and 2 of them refund, so I get 8 sales The math, maths most of the time, right? But you have to learn to break it up and go like, okay, like, like, and probably just find the line because I'm tipping you get no follow-up sales, right? Uh, no, that's not entirely true. I'd say about 10 to 20% of them are follow-up. Okay, because generally speaking, like, if you're getting a lot of refunds because you're pushing people quite hard If you push people quite hard, it's because you usually struggle to find the line. Right. And then like, which means you're going to have less follow-up sales than normal.

Yeah.

That's just generally speaking how it goes. Right. It doesn't have to be that way, but you know, so you just got to let, you know, first of all, like, you know, try and I would say, have a listen to see if there's like some venom or frustration in your tone. Frustration is the one that makes it get combative most of the time. Yeah, right. So if you can avoid that just by realizing you're probably not, you know, as smart or cool as what you think you are, you know what I mean? And then just go like, all right, cool, I'll give them a break. Um, sweet. As I do have to go in a minute, guys. Uh, so, uh, Nick, real quick.

Yeah, awesome. This has been amazing, by the way. Thank you so much. Um, I sell, uh, a Level 1 and a Level 2 course for PTs. I educate PTs. Um, so the level we sell it for, like but both combined, like level 1, $6K, level 2, $6K, and then I sell it combined like $10K, or paid in full is like $5K. But I want to know, like, what should be the incentive for paying for— like, is there a certain percentage of difference in pricing that it should be that's enough as of an incentive for people to pay in full?

Um, It's a good question. It's probably going to be very market-specific, to be honest.

Okay.

Um, like, it's, it's kind of a hard one to answer. Um, I would say you want to have it like— you want to have an incentive that is enough to where I would— 20% would be the max. Yeah, I mean, I think any more than that, your payment plan price is probably just bullshit, to be honest. It's probably overly inflated. Um, yeah, sweet.

Uh, yeah, do this last little bit with me. I think everybody's asking about pricing and shit. Book a consult with Matt if you want to go through your pricing offer. Like, go— if we can go like actually through the objection handling bit.

Yeah, for sure. Just so I'll go through. So, um, okay, cool. So, uh, Brody, if you want to be the prospect, do you want me? No, George, just be like normal. So, hey Brody, so you know it's, uh, $10,000 How do you want to proceed from here?

Uh, man, look, it's, um, it sounds great.

Why is that?

Oh, well, like, it's, um, you know, it's, it's, it's from where my business is to, you know, where I want to get it to. It, um, yeah, it sounds like it could work. I just need to run over the finances.

Yeah, sweet, man. Money aside, do you feel this could be the answer for you?

Yeah, yeah, I think it could. Yeah, yeah.

Is there anything in particular that makes you feel that way?

Um, I guess for me it's probably the accountability, just like having, having the coach there to kind of speak to every day. Um, haven't really had that before.

And like, why would that help?

Well, I guess it's just don't feel like I'm really doing it alone then, you know, just actually have, um, have the support and, um, that guidance that, uh, so yeah, I feel like I've actually got someone to help me.

Like, makes sense though, I guess. Like, so what are some ways that I guess we can come up with the funding to where you can actually get that accountability and have someone, you know, kind of looking over your shoulder and just making sure things are happening right? Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know how. I'm not really sure.

Okay, was it the upfront amount, or if we kind of broke that up for you, like, would that help?

Yeah, it's—

it's—

you can break it out. It is the upfront amount.

I just don't care. Okay, well, do you want to— do you want to have that payment plan kind of conversation?

Sure, yeah.

Sure, man. Yeah, dude, it's totally normal, right? So, you know, a lot of guys that come to us for training, right? They're kind of allocating resources to areas of life that might not necessarily be, you know, like driving them towards being healthy. And so, we have to reallocate, you know what I mean? And so, what we can do for a lot of guys is we usually break it up over 2 payments. Right, they're 30 days apart of $5,000. Would that work more within your current budget or like are we kind of still way off?

It's probably still a little bit off.

Okay, well like obviously I can't hit a target that I can't see, but if you broke it up over 3 payments over 3 months, like would that, would that help you?

You do like a weekly?

Uh, I mean that's difficult for us because we do have to front load an awful lot of your education. Like with the coaching and, yeah, you're doing good and like, you know what I mean? But like, you know, I guess like just between me, you, no ego, no nothing, like what do you actually have on hand to be able to invest into your health and fitness?

I, I know maybe a few, a few hundred bucks a week maybe.

All right, cool. This is where like the nuance of the offer comes into play because I've got I don't know. Right, right. But I would say like, um, let's just say I had a plan that, that kind of worked, right? Because this is just like logistics. So, okay, cool. So like, you know, um, like $500 a week, would that work more within your current budget?

Yeah. Yeah, I think I could make that work.

You sure? You could, you could just keep doing what you're doing, man. Like maybe you don't need us. I don't know, man.

And then right now, like, it's funny that the exact role play is exactly where it starts to go into fear. It's like, yeah, I just, I just don't know. Just, uh, yeah, I think, like, I think I could make that work.

Okay, so $500 a week in order for us to look over everything, you know, get you back on track and get you going to XYZ. Like, that works within your current budget?

Yeah, yeah, that works.

All right, well, how do you want to proceed from here? And then it can go into fear, whatever it can go into, right? But the key is that you just lock up that— I don't know if I'm delaying, guys, I'm sorry. Um, I'm just gonna turn my camera off real quick. I think it's just fucking around a bit. Um, um, yeah, so, and then, and then from there you just kind of, you know, you would go through like your next series. But does that make sense as a process? It's quite quick, it's quite clean. It doesn't need to be anything more complicated than that when it comes to just a pure money objection, right? Like, there's— it's very—

I was just about to— if I, if I was to throw a partner objection in there, could you just quickly roleplay that last bit? So if it's like you're talking about money, you get this $500, you know, work within your budget, and then I immediately, before you've kind of rounded out that vertical, I just throw in Yeah, I just, I just guess I need to speak to the wife.

Like, so yeah, but I would just, you know, I'd go, yeah, man, like, that makes sense. But does this still work? Would this work within the current budget? Like, I would just ignore it.

Yeah, gotcha.

Like that, that, like, that's it. And then I'm just gonna make you say yes, and then I'm gonna go, okay, how do you want to proceed from here? Knowing that you're going to give me a wife objection, I'm going to go, okay, and if your wife was on the call, do you feel like, you know, she would think that this is a good move for you, you know? You go, why though? Ask him about why, why though? And then, and then I'm going to break them down to like a decision tree of like, uh, would you or wouldn't you? So if you ask her and she says no, what happens? That's the key decision point, because if you probe on that a few times and the real answer is he cannot move forward without her, then you have to speak to her, right?

And I'm sure you'll cover that on, on partner at that Are you asking again why though? So you're going, why?

Yeah, yeah, probing, probing, probing all the time. Yeah, good. Okay. All right, cool. Uh, Jeremiah, last question, then I gotta bounce, guys. Hope that was helpful, buddy. Hey, man, thanks for doing this.

Did you post any PDFs or anything like that as far as following frameworks? Because if so, I haven't been able to find them.

Yeah, the objection handling matrix is in the posts, right? But I will repost it, which has got the full framework available. Um, actually, let me just see.

Is it in Notion or—

uh, it's also in the Notion, yes. But I will— let me put it in the chat real quick. Thank you. Let me see if I can put it in the chat. I don't know if that's a function that is available. Oh no, it's not. Um, I will pop it in YouTube right after this, uh, and then I will put it— I will put it in the description of this video because this will be uploaded into the Objection Handling course, um, in the, uh, in the playlist. Okay, thanks so much. All right guys, awesome. We'll, uh, speak to you guys In a couple days. Bye. Thanks, Matt. Bye.

Thank you.

Cheers, everyone.

Thank you.

Thank you.