She Makes Sales Look Easy (Men Hate This)

Hey everybody, just finding the humans in between the note-takers. It's almost more note-takers than humans. Okay, I think we're good. So put your hand up if you got something that you want to go over with, with me, you know, any feedback that you are looking for, and then I'll just like, I'll go around the room and I'll get as much feedback as I can to as many people as, as possible. For anybody who hasn't been on my trainings Yes. So I guess what I sort of focus on teaching is what I'd call like the sales equation, focus being on the EQ. So it's the emotional intelligence aspect of the sales conversation. It is being able to read a person's state. It is being able to influence a person emotionally, you know, behavioral influence, because at the end of the day, people buy when they feel like buying and don't buy when they don't feel like buying. So we need to know how to understand who it is that we're speaking to and how to adapt in real time in a sales conversation to have the right conversation with this person, um, rather than just like pushing through a process or a script or whatever. So we'll dive in, Mikel.

Real quick. And yeah, I just wanna review a, just a tiny bit of the call where I wanted to understand like her level of commitment and she gave me like a 7 out of 10 and then she mentioned, well, it depends on the day and I tried to clarify on that, but I just wanna see like your thoughts on that.

Okay, cool. Play the clip.

Yeah.

So right here, I ask you a bit of a cheeky question if you're open to it. Is that something you actually want? You want to get to that level or you just want to—

Sorry, pause. Can you put it on just one speed so it doesn't sound like chipmunks?

Yes, sir.

Hey.

Can I ask you a bit of a cheeky question if you're open to it? Is that something you actually want? You want to get to that level or you just want to—

Say what?

I do. I want to be able to do—

Can you repeat that before the cheeky question bit?

Yeah.

Uh, um, I want to be that 75-year-old that's lifting a kayak over her head. I, I want, I want to be able to at least maintain or get back movement that I had at my younger years and maintain that. And I know over time it's gonna get less and less, but I just, at where I'm at, where I was I know that my body can do better, and I don't— I know if I don't start working on it now, I, I'm gonna lose a lot of— I'm gonna lose what I can get right now. I'm gonna completely lose it if I don't, if I don't work on it. Does that make sense?

I don't know if I'm making sense in that aspect.

Okay, can I ask you a bit of a cheeky question if you're open to it? Is that something you actually want? You want to get to that level or you just want to—

I do.

How come you ask that question?

Well, I wanted to do the want versus need, but she didn't. I based it on the language she was giving me, but again, she gave me all the right signals for actually showing that this is something she really needs.

Okay, so, but again, I just want to understand your thought process. I'm not saying at this point you're doing anything right or wrong or whatever. Like, based on what she said there, what was it specifically that made you feel like it made sense to ask the question that you did?

I think it's just like her words she chose. I want to do these things. I want to be the woman that when she's 75, she can lift a kayak over her head. I want to do these things. But is that actually something you need though?

What's the reason that you want to feel like you need to feel like you need to shift it from like a want to a need?

It's more how they speak to themselves on their goals. If they just want it rather than if I actually like it, then I need to become that version of myself.

Okay. Can I ask your perspective?

Yeah.

Does it really matter if I say want or need? Or does it matter? Or what is it that really matters?

Action.

Yeah, exactly. So like, rather than focus on getting someone to say different words, like, I just want to make sure that they're committed to doing the things that they need to do to have what it is that they want. Yeah, that's it. So I'll show you here. We use like the the map of consciousness just as like a visual, visual, um, present now. Ah, what am I doing? I can't drive. Can you stop? Oh, can you see my screen? Can you stop screen sharing for a second, Miguel?

Yeah.

Okay, can you guys see that? So this is the map of consciousness by David R. Hawkins. Um, It's just like different emotional states on a scale, low level on the left, high level on the right. Do not confuse this with good and bad. If I lose a loved one, like, it's appropriate for me to feel a level of grief unless I'm a psychopath. It's just, is the emotion I'm— emotional state I'm in now, like, conducive or— yeah, conducive with the behavior that's going to put me in the position that I want to. So now the word want, like without making assumptions, I'm not seeing this like cold call, she's speaking quite neutrally, which is nice, but like want, I would actually say like need is, is desire because need implies emotional attachment. That's why a lot of sales reps show up from a place of desire because they're emotionally attached to the outcome. Now what emotional attachment means is just as a simple example, if I get the outcome I want, I feel positive emotions. I feel the way I want. If I don't get the outcome that I want, I feel negative emotions. I don't feel the way that I want. And so I'm disempowered because my emotional state is dependent on the outcomes I'm getting, as opposed to the sales rep that's able to put themselves in a position where they're like, look, I'm committed to getting the outcome that I want, but regardless of whether they, whether I get the outcome or not, like like that doesn't influence my emotions. I'm okay. I'm just going to focus on, alright, if I didn't get the outcome that I want, what do I need to do next time to put myself in a position in order to get it? Sorry, one sec. I think the delivery dude, Sarah, hit the doorbell. I just heard the doorbell. That's all. So getting something delivered. Okay. So does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. That really makes sense.

Yeah, and so like this is kind of need. Even if someone's saying want, if there's like a craving, an emotional attachment, it's like they might be using the word want, you know, like a lot of sales reps like, oh man, I just want to be like the best. And it's like, well, that to me implies there's some need there. It's not just a want. The same as somebody could go like, you know, I really want to put myself in a position where I get X outcome. And the way that it's delivered is like, all right, that's kind of in their mind like it's important. And so again, to your point, it doesn't matter whether in my mind, in my opinion, I don't really care if someone's saying I want something or I need something. There's a big difference between what we say and what we do. So for someone like that, it's like if someone is articulating to me why they want something and why it's of importance, it's like, okay, well, hey, I appreciate you sharing that with me. I, you know, I can, like, this seems important to you. Now, as I'm sure you know, there's a difference between what we say we want and, you know, putting ourselves in a position where it's actually possible. So, I mean, can I ask, like, are you, do you feel like you're at a point where, you know, you're willing to do the hard, the uncomfortable things required to put yourself in the best position possible now, you know, maybe get the help that you feel you need right now so that You know, you can be that 75-year-old, you know, version of you throwing kayaks across your head. So do you see how I'm shifting the conversation now away from saying to doing?

Much better. Yeah. Much clearer on that.

And if they're, you know, it's just like as simple as that. You can just have some ways of being like, cool, thanks for sharing. Sounds important to you. You know, as I'm sure you know, there's a difference between like talking about what we want and actually doing the things required to get what we want. Or you can say, like, you know, as I'm sure you know, there's a difference between people that I guess talk about what they want and people who actually get what they want. Like, what's typically the difference? You know, it's, it's the commitment. And so can I ask, do you feel like you're at a point where, you know, like, you're willing to sort of, yeah, draw that line in the sand or, you know, actually commit to doing the hard, the uncomfortable things required, get the help you feel you need, put yourself in the best position possible to be that 75-year-old version of yourself who's throwing a kayak over your head, as opposed to, I don't know, I'm just being like most 75-year-olds that are like— insert whatever it is that she doesn't want. Yes, I am. Okay, what's your definition of commitment? Do you see what I mean? So now I'm shifting them from desire, I want, into willingness, which is like, I'm committed.

Yeah.

Makes sense. Yeah, I either do one or two things. Either I put it on a scale, like 1 to 10, how committed are you? Or as you just did, it's like, okay, well, I actually committed. Yeah. Okay. What is your definition of commitment? Well, that would be this.

Okay.

So you're actually willing to do that to get there? Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Yeah. Okay. So it wasn't that I would like— it wasn't that what you did wasn't right. However, just outside looking in, it felt a little bit to me like if I put myself in her shoes, she's talking through quite calm, calmly that like, hey, here's what I want. He's sort of, I guess, why, like, yeah, here's what I want. And then I understand your thought process. However, the, like, you know, then a follow-up with like, is that what you actually want? It's kind of like, what do you mean? Like, I just said that's what I want. Like, are you, like, what do you mean? Are you questioning whether I want that? And I've just said that I want that. Yeah. So I know what you meant, but it might not come across that way to the person that we're speaking to. What you actually wanted to know is like, oh, you want that? But like, are you, are you committed to it? Makes sense. Are you committed to making it happen for yourself? Okay.

Yeah.

Does that help?

Yeah, that does help.

All right. Awesome. Okay.

Can I show more or a tiny bit more?

Yeah, you can show a little bit more.

All right.

Because it comes down to a point, I was a bit— here it is. In terms of me, us, anything else, not even like your mother or anything, like in terms of you, how committed, like on a scale of 1 to 10, are you to becoming that?

Oh God, you know, it depends on the day, unfortunately. I would say I would say 7. I would say a 7. Like, I want it to get done, um, and I really want to start doing this again. I, I mean, I— my next run is, is a 15K right now, so I'm, I'm working on— so I'm, I do want to keep running. I do want to keep a level of activity and exercise and flexibility.

Do what?

Click on you when you ask, but only a 7 though.

Yeah, yeah, but only a 7 though. What's missing from being like that 10 out of 10 version of yourself that commits fully to making the change for yourself?

Knowing my personality.

What does that mean?

I'll be all gung-ho and then I'll slowly, I'll slowly get off, get off my regimen and then I'll go back to it. Um, so it's just, it's just knowing my personality, knowing, knowing that, um, it's hard for me to stay focused and prioritize. Uh, that's, that's really it. Like, I just, I know that I don't always prioritize what I need to do and I'll get lazy. So yeah, that, that extra 30% is because of that.

Yeah, I think—

I mean, we're not asking if someone's like, like, you know, whether you're perfect or not isn't necessarily a definition of like how committed you are. Like, like we are humans. Committed, at least committed in my mind, is like hand on heart every day did I kind of show up as the best version of me. And, you know, like we all know that, look, I mean, some days maybe 70% was like the best that we could give. You know what I mean? Like, if, you know, yes, she might be committed to this outcome, but like, I don't know, imagine she's got kids. If like she's got a some like some ability training scheduled for herself and then the school calls and a kid's broken her arm and she sits in the ER all night, like, I'm not questioning her commitment. It's like ultimately there are sometimes things in life that, that are more of like a priority, but it doesn't mean that like I'm not going to kind of get myself back in a position where like, I'm, you know, I'm doing the things I need to do. I know you. Yeah.

Like shifting the perspective on it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I want to like, and again, I don't, I don't, you know, sometimes people can be a little bit hesitant of being like, oh, like I'm 100% committed, committed because they're questioning themselves a little bit. And so, well, cool. Like, I mean, if I have her accountability, Um, you know, I can just get curious about that because at the end of the day, the program, for example, that requires somebody to be absolutely perfect every single day, like, is that feasible? Or is it more about like being as consistent as possible?

Yeah, so it's basically, it's basically building trust and saying, look, I'm not expecting you to wake up being committed there. I'm expecting that you do the best you can actually do to get to that point.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just like, I'm willing to, I'm willing to do the things that I need to do as consistently as possible to put myself in the best position that I can. And, you know, there are times where maybe we do fall off track, but committed is like as quickly as possible getting ourselves back on track. And, you know, depending on what's in the program, this is a conversation I can have where it's like, ah, okay. So, I mean, I don't know. I just want to make sure I'm understanding, like, like, is this a question of commitment or is this just a case of like, well, look, sometimes I have things in life or there are days where things when things don't go perfectly to plan? Oh, well, yeah, it's more like that. Okay, cool. Well, I mean, we're only human, I suppose. Like, I want to separate those two things, you know, as of right now, when you think about that thing that you want, like, based on right now, like, are you committed to doing everything that you can in order to get it, knowing there's no guarantees in life? Yeah, yeah, I am. Okay. And then let's talk about the other part where sometimes maybe, you know, we fall off regime or this and that. Like what tends to happen there? So we can look at, all right, well, what do we need to do to ensure that like that doesn't get in the way of us getting where we want to go? Because now it might be like an accountability. I can use the structure that we have to just solve that problem. You know, okay, like when that happens, like, how come? You know, it's like, okay, well, you know, I mean, that's pretty common when clients reach out to us. Like, what do you feel like you might be looking for from, say, someone like us to ensure that you know, you're able to be consistent as often as possible so that you can like X, Y, and Z. Makes sense? Boom. Yeah, like, yeah, the path of least resistance. Yeah, I always like, I'm like, if I, I want to work with them and go, all right, well, let's be a team. And rather than me blame her, go, okay, what was wrong? What do you feel like was potentially missing in like a plan, structure, support? That made navigating those obstacles like harder than they really needed to be? Because that's the whole point of this, is to get someone there faster and easier. You know, it's like, oh, well, when work gets stressful, it's like, okay, like, like, you know, I mean, I imagine that's going to happen sometimes. How do you feel like, how would you maybe, if you're working with someone, how would you maybe want them to help or support you through those times to ensure that like you still continue kind of progressing towards your goals? Or or worst case, like, at least we don't regress. How can we help? Do you see what I mean?

It's okay. I'm just smiling right now. It's like, you're so right. It's all right.

Okay, cool. Well, um, did you get what you need? I'll move on.

Yeah, definitely did.

All right, without a doubt. Looks like there's— Adam had a maybe a realization as well, which is good. Um, all right, Timothy, how can I help?

Yeah.

Yeah, a couple things here. So sometimes I find it difficult, like, like an industry I'm currently in, right? I don't know, I do okay, I do pretty well, but I think I could do a lot better when it comes to like objection handling. I don't do very well when I have to interject and like interrupt people just because, you know, I was a chaplain for a long for quite a while. So it's like just sitting and listening is just kind of what I do. So that, that aspect of objection handling is hard for me to like interject and stop because I just, when I do it, I feel like I'm being rude or, or something. So how do you—

okay, well, let's, let's role play it. Are you open to role playing it with somebody so that I can sort of like, yeah, kind of I want to kind of notice or try to identify like, okay, what's making it hard and then how can we make it easier for you?

Okay.

Yeah, sure.

Um, can, can someone be a prospect for Timothy? Just, you just need to give him an objection and then maybe like, I don't know, talk a bit.

Yeah, I'll, I'll be prospect.

What's the—

what's your—

yeah, so I sell debt relief, um, and so it's anything like, I want to think about it, or credit impact is, is mainly the one. They don't want their credit going down.

Sure, sure.

So just get it.

Yeah, maybe, maybe just give it quite straight, you know, and have a think about it. It ends up you're a bit worried about what impact this might have on like your, your credit file, and then what therefore impact that might have on your ability to like, you know, borrow finance, etc., like longer term. And then I just— yeah, just, I know, you just, you guys do that and I'll, I'll watch. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I just kind of want to think about it just for a little while.

Yeah, that's not a problem. I mean, I think taking the time to think it over is a smart move. It's an important decision. You know, just to kind of help me understand a little bit better though, normally when people say they want to think about it, it's really just one of a few things. Like sometimes they don't understand fully like how the program works. And we could talk about that for sure. Other times it's, you know, they don't want to stop using their credit cards. And then, you know, even sometimes they're just a little worried about the credit impact. So I guess out of those, which one do you think it mainly is for you?

Yeah, I mean, I say that it's none of them.

Okay. I mean, it's none of them actually.

I'm lost. There, I don't know what to say.

All right, cool. Okay, well, I already— I want to help you out. Okay. The first thing is, if someone says they want to think about it and I tell them that that's a smart move, what potential problems do you see with that?

I guess maybe it's just strengthening the idea that they should probably go and think about it.

Yeah, why? Because I just labeled them as smart. Does someone want to be smart? Do I want— would I want to be perceived as a smart person or a stupid person? I don't know, right? So what I'm subtly implying is like, well, if you don't go away and think about it, you're not a smart person. So you are— I completely understand where you're going with that, is like, I want to defuse the objection, but going that way about it is affirming that you're kind of putting an identity label on them and then affirming that behavior. It makes it really tricky then to overcome it. So Adam, just role play with me real quick and I'll just show you how I've always dealt with think about it. It's worked very well for me. So Adam, just shoot at me, you want to think about it.

Yeah, I mean, I just, I just want to go over and think about it realistically.

Yeah, okay, yeah, hey, not a problem at all. If you want to take some time, go and think about it, like, you're welcome to do that. I suppose before you do, like, what is it that you're hoping to go over in your mind, just to see if I can help?

Yeah, I mean, it's just because I don't want my credit to be impaired from this. Like, I mean, like, if I can't take financing out later on, then I might be quite screwed.

Okay, so I mean, that makes sense. I can appreciate why you might be feeling a little bit concerned about that. I don't want to assume anything though. Like, what is it about the idea of potentially impacting your credit score, finance long term? Like, what is it that concerns you about that?

Well, I mean, I just rely on that, you know. It's like, it's always like in my back pocket just in case I can't pay everything with my paycheck. I need to work on my credit score and use that to get funding. So I see where you're coming from.

Can I offer you a perspective though? Just something you might not, might not have thought of.

Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.

Have you, like, have you considered what, what impact the, the debt that you have now and the way that we're managing it now might have on your credit score and ability to access finance longer term if you don't do anything to get the help you feel you need to, like, to better manage it?

I mean, it's— it is a thought that creeps around my mind, but I've never really gone too deep into it.

Because, like, because what might happen given the level of debt we have now, the way that we're managing it now, you know, problems with managing it now that I don't have because we're at the end of a call that I have no context on, right? Yeah, like Like, what might happen if things continue the way that they are and, like, don't change?

Well, I'll get into a worse situation, you know. Like, my credit score will probably go down.

And then what?

Oh, and then I'm not really going to be able to finance a lot of stuff anymore.

Yeah. So I can appreciate your concerns around the impact on your credit score. Like, I get that. I suppose it really depends on what what you see as riskier at this point. Is it like potentially in the short term take like a small hit to your credit file so we can put the right plan, the right strategy in place to get on top of the debt so it's not a problem for you over X amount of months, and then we can shift our focus to like repairing your credit file, etc., and put you in the best position possible moving forward to access finance if and when you want it? Or Is it you just keep doing more of what you've been doing, like hoping and praying that somehow you figure out a way to get on top of the debt?

Well, yeah, it's—

I haven't figured out how to do that in the last 2 years now.

Yeah, it's riskier to keep on doing what I have been doing.

What makes you say that?

Well, the way I'm going right now, I mean, it's got me on this call, right? I'm I'm not able to deal with the debt. I'm in a bad situation, so I need some kind of help. But I don't know, it's just, it's just a lot to think about on this.

Yeah, cool. We'll pause there because otherwise I'm just gonna go on forever. So if we back it up, the first place that I start, and it might seem similar, but I'm not affirming the behavior. I am reminding this person that ultimately you have a choice. If you want to go away and think about it, like, you're welcome to do that. It's your life. It's your goals, it's your finances, it's not mine. I haven't— did I say it was— did I say that it was like okay or necessary? Or I'm like, no, you've got a choice. Like, if that's what you want to do, like, I'm gonna hold a gun to your head and like be like, you can't do that. Yeah. And then I sell the exit a bit where it's like, before you go away and think about it, like, what is it— I really pace this out— like, what is it that you're, um, I don't know, I guess like, what is it that you're sort of hoping to go over in your mind, like, just to see if I can help? Now for me, like, you know, if I ever got to think about it and I asked it in that, like, exact way, like, I'd always just get the thing. Well, it's this. Ah, okay. Yeah, now something I didn't do because it wasn't really the purpose here, but I should make clear of this, is what I would typically do when I get that thing is I would go, ah, okay, well, hey, can I ask, like, besides maybe some concerns that you have about like what impact that may have on your credit score, because like I get it, makes sense, you know, do you feel like, like based on what I've gone over, like does this actually feel like it would help you to solve X problem, get Y result, or how do you actually feel about like what we've gone over, you know, like, as in, would it help them with the debt or whatever that problem like is? Oh yeah, for sure. Like, I want to make sure that they feel good about the process. I'm not dealing with any kind of value objection. And if that door is shut where they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm just afraid of my credit score though. Like, yeah, cool, it all makes sense to me. Yeah, definitely would help with the debt, yada yada yada. But like, I'm just, I just, I'm afraid of my credit score. And then once I've got that tied off, all right, cool, well, let's talk about that. You know, it's not uncommon people get on calls like this. Like, it's a pretty natural concern. 'Right, like, I get it. Um, like, for you personally though, what is it that sort of concerns you the most though?' And cool, now let's like talk about that. And the reason that's important is that like I don't have a lot of leverage unless I've got pretty— unless I've got strong buy-in on the solution. But it helps a lot with my conviction too, personally, as a human. Like, if I feel like this person is convinced to me that this can help them, then I'm like, all right, sweet, well, let's figure this out together. But if I don't feel like I've been convinced of that, like, I feel like I've got a bit less conviction when it comes to helping them to overcome whatever obstacle is here. Like, you know what I mean? They convinced me, I'm like, all right, cool, well, now it's kind of my duty to do whatever I can to help you overcome whatever concerns that you have. And like, let's get you the help because you've just told me this, you feel like it's exactly what you need. Yeah, makes sense.

Yeah, 100%.

So personally, I'd be like, just copy what I did and then like practice, like practice that. Okay. And then notice what I did with the debt thing. It's like, okay, like I'm not here to argue that like doing this won't impact your credit score. The reality is, basically what I understand of debt reduction or whatever, like it will. Yeah, but it, but it's kind of like, well, we've got two options. You like, what, where do you like the trajectory that we're on right now? Where do you suppose that leads in relation to your credit score? Like, sure, yeah, not great. It's like, cool. So I mean, either way, like, there might— there's impact to credit score, but like, what do you feel is riskier? You just keep doing what you're doing, your credit score ends up effed for like way longer, or we take the short-term little hit? Like, it's— we're talking about strategy here. This is strategic. Yeah, it's like we take a strategic little hit now to get rid of the debt so you're not freaking out and stressed, you can sleep at night, all that kind of thing. Okay. And then we should focus to like repairing it as quickly as possible so that, you know, it's like it never happened.

Right.

Clean slate moving forward. So I just get them to see like it's not— that's the thing. I'm not arguing that, but like if you genuinely want to change your situation here, like you have to be okay with the fact that there's going to be a hit. It just depends on how you want to go about it. Do you want to go about it like strategically, like with us? We're cool. We take the short-term hit and then we fix the problem and you're sweet. Or do you want to just like, I don't know, hope and pray you figured this thing out that you haven't been able to figure out in the last 2 years? Keep drowning in debt, yada yada. It's like, nah, okay, cool. Yeah, you're right.

That's how I'm doing it, right? It is brilliant. Is, is that the framework that's in the, in the, um, in the classroom that you used, or is that just, I don't know, based off on your own experience?

It'd be pretty similar. Yeah, it's probably pretty similar, as in like, like from Matt, for example.

I'm just trying to see, like, because what you did was like incredible. I want to get to that point, but I'm wondering if they're like, how do I learn?

Yeah, it's always a framework. Like, I can't remember what Matt specifically says to do with like, think about it. He might suggest you go, yeah, cool, no problem, what's your time frame on getting back to me, just to see if I'm available.

But even after you got the objection, like how you— I noticed it was just a lot of like clarifying and just asking the right questions back.

Yeah. So I think the first part is like, yeah, we think about it. Like I don't do the whole calendar thing because I think it's just unnecessary time. It takes us way longer to get to the point where I know what you want to think about it. Think about when I've found that based on the way that I do that, the way I pace it out, like 99% of the time, you just immediately give me the thing that you kind of want to go over in your mind because I make you feel safe to share that with me. I'm like, great, I've got that. Um, and then it's like, ah, cool. That concern aside, this is actually feel like something would work with you, for you. Why? Like, you sure? Cool. Shut the door on the value. And then from there it's like, well, I'm just like, because I'm not emotionally attached to whether you do this or not, um, I am committed to helping you. Right? But like, my concern isn't whether you get our help or not, it's that you get the help you feel you need. If that's with someone else, so be it. I just don't want you to do F all and, you know, you're screwed. I don't want that. So I'm like, cool, like, I'm just, I'm just curious to understand your thought process because language equals beliefs. So if I get curious about your concern and I'm like, okay, you know, tell me more about that, like, what is it that, you know, I don't want to assume anything. I can make assumptions like you know, but like no one really cares about their credit score. Like, what concerns do you have about your credit score decreasing? Like, is there a particular reason sort of for that? I want to understand your perspective, and then that will help me as well to understand how you're looking at it. Yeah. And then if once I understand what— how you're looking at it, well then I can think about, well, how do I want you to look at it instead? And then I just ask you questions to take you from the way you were looking at it here to the way you were looking at it here. And because I went about it in the way of questions, it was like you arrived at that conclusion on your own.

So then kind of zooming out, it's after you get to the objection, it's like, what perspective do they actually have and what's their concern and why do they have that perspective?

And then, yeah, okay, exactly. You know, because like the perspective itself isn't wrong, it serves a purpose, doesn't it? And so that's the biggest thing. If you don't— if you separate the person from their perspective, and I'm like, oh, this person has a wrong way of thinking, and go, no, they're just a person with a way of thinking. Like, people are not their thoughts. I am not my thoughts, I'm not my emotions. They're separate to me. Yeah, so I can, I can— the way that I, I've thought about like the whole reframing process is I, I start with like, okay, well, if, if a lot of people have concerns around impact to credit score, for example, I can go, okay, well, I'll start with What perspective do they— do I want them to have? And the perspective I want them to have is, okay, it is smart to take a short-term strategic hit to my credit score now in order to put myself in the absolute best financial position possible as quickly as possible. And, you know, longer term, that's what I want their perspective to have to be. And then I have a think about, all right, well, what might that perspective be at the moment? Yeah, and you can make some pretty educated assumptions. You know, why might people be fearful of their credit score being impacted? And that's going to help me understand a lot, like the ways that they're looking at it right now. And then it's just to connect the dots in between with questions. So if this is the perspective they have right now, this is the perspective I want them to have, like what are a series of questions that I can ask to help them go from here to here? And then once you've kind of got that, well, then you can start to refine it and it might become, okay, cool. Well, If that's working, yeah, it's working pretty consistently. Then how am I to be able to help them to go from this perspective to this one in less questions? Can I get them there faster? But you've got to start with something that works and then you can refine it and focus on efficiency. So that's how I always think about it is because that's all sales is. We're not asking questions we don't know the answer to. Right. So if that's the case, I go, well, what? What do I want them to say? You know what, right? And then I just go, okay, what, how, like if I was to reverse engineer that into questions that get them there, what would those questions be? And then you just play around with it a bit. Okay. That's what's helped me the most. And that's where now instead of being like, what do I say? You start to approach sales from a place of like, how to, how to think. And that's what creates autonomy as opposed to dependency on the coaches you're jumping on calls with.

Right.

Okay.

So that was a good question because you were like, you were asking, how do I think about this moving forward? Not just this case example.

Right. Yeah.

Good job. Thank you. So does that help you with a bit of a— so just, just have a practice with some of those. And then where you use the coaches is you go, okay, here's what I'm trying to accomplish. Here's what I've come up with as some potential way or some potential ways that I could accomplish that. Am I on the right track? 'What are your thoughts on that? Like, would you do— is this— is, you know, would you do something differently? Or, you know, have you got some feedback for me?' And you use us as the coaches to refine it. And that's where you practice how to think and problem solving. And you're just using us for feedback as opposed to 'give me the solution.' Sure. Doesn't teach you a whole lot. And that's certainly, I feel like, how I got where I— what I always sat down and was like, 'Cool, how do I solve this problem?' And I lent on my coaches and my mentors the feedback.

Right. Okay, that's very helpful. Thank you so much.

Hopefully that helps. That should— that's just— that was me speaking to Timothy while speaking to all of you.

All right. Are these posted somewhere, these recordings? Or—

yeah, yeah, they all get uploaded into school.

Oh, okay, cool.

Yeah. Adam.

Yeah, so first of all, that was unreal that they're like— that taught me a lot. But, um, I was wondering, see, with the map of consciousness, um, on here, I'm trying to figure it out, and I, I just kind of needed some like guidance on it a little bit. Just with like the— when do you know someone's in a certain part of it? Because that's something I keep on failing on, and I ask them like say a grief question, like, rather than, uh, like, pride or something like that?

So I think, like, you gotta start at certain levels. It's like someone who's like, hey, like, I'm new to sales, um, how do I, uh, identity sell? It's like, well, you don't. You start with knowing how to get from the start to an end of a sales conversation effectively, you know what I mean? So it's like, just start at one level, and I would say that Um, you know, if you want to understand like how to do this more, because I guess the challenging part is this isn't a sales resource. Yeah. It was a resource that I found where I was like, okay, that makes it much easier for me to articulate to people what I'm doing and how I do it. Like it's a resource that exists, you know, like there are a number of them, but it's just a good visual way for me to do it. But it's not a sales resource. So I look at it through a sales lens. And, you know, interpret it through a sales lens. That's what I teach clients like, like Matthew here is here, like, you know, but I would say guys to start with is just focus on low-level states. These like the bottom ones and high-level states. Like I'd say the, like, you know, these are kind of the common ones that we're focused on in like a sales conversation. The reason being is like, even if at best you can sort of figure out whether they're in a low, like it's low-level state or high-level state. All right. Great, that's useful information because the high-level state is empowered. Low-level state is like disempowered, or then, and then negatively charged, like emotions. Now the thing is, like, these negatively charged emotions aren't a problem depending on the direction they're facing. So for example, if somebody's primary emotional driver for solving this problem is guilt, they have feelings of guilt, but it's like I just, I feel guilty that I've let this problem go on so long and I haven't done anything because now I see that it's impacting the people I care about. Then I don't mind that that guilt is there because it's a, it's an emotional driver to do something. So that feeling of guilt might be what's going to put them in that state of willingness where like, because of the guilt, the guilt's the reason that I want to do something as opposed to guilt is the reason I'm not going to do something. Do you see what I mean? So it's like the negative emotion itself isn't the problem. It depends on, is it, is it going to be the reason they do this or is it going to be the reason they don't do it? And I just want to make sure that they look, they're looking at it as a reason to do it. Okay. Yeah. And if they're looking at it as a reason to do something, well then by nature it's like this is going to be more likely the state. It's just the, um, you know, the emotional driver that, that's kind of like pushing them might be like this one. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, no, that, that makes sense.

So just start with that and notice that, like, all right, like, you know, I want you to— sometimes it can be helpful to imagine, like, the best version of them. How does that person think, act, carry themselves, and talk? Because all we can do— and at the end of the day, even if you know this shit inside out, like, I'm still making an assumption. I can't ask you, hey, just on, like, this scale Which state are you in? Like, it's an assumption, all right? Like, I can only, like, gather as much behavioral intel as I can and then make an educated assumption about roughly, like, where they are, but I could be wrong.

All right, no, yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, so just— that's where I would start and go, okay, well, what does somebody who is more in, like, a survival, like, paradigm and, and you know, like, you know, they're disempowered. Like, how did— how do they talk? What language do they use? How do they, like, carry themselves? Okay, because, um, that's when you'll notice, like, if this— this is the behavioral response for these, like, low-level states. Yeah. And so, like, in apathy, it's abdication. So it's like, oh, well, I mean, I guess the reason I haven't done anything is like, I don't know, you tell me, what am I supposed to do about that? Like, it's not in my control. Like, yeah, I'm miserable, but like, I can't control that my boss is a dick, or like, my wife left me, or like, you know, no, that's my fault. Like, what could I have done about it? It's like, okay, that's disempowering. Yeah, you know, like, are they consumed with this, with this, like, stuff? Or this person, like, wants this result so bad, but like, they've never actually done anything to get after it? Or so, yeah, I think if you can try to understand just that bit— what is it look and sound and feel like to talk to somebody who's in like kind of low level state versus like high level state, that's a good place to start. And then the way that I think about it is generally, um, like people have a different predominant emotional state in different areas of their life. Now, like, here's the thing. Most people aren't booking sales conversations in when they're like 100% happy. With this area of their life. They generally like booking in because there's something about maybe this area of their life that they are unhappy in. And so naturally, a lot of the people that we speak to, at least in the area of life that we're talking to them about, oftentimes it is low-level state. Not always. Like, for example, with the mobility offer, some people are like happy with where they are right now. However, when they think about and look at that area of their life, it causes them some type of negative emotion. It might be worry. Or concern. Okay, you know, yeah, so that's why, you know, yeah, does that make sense?

That, that makes a lot of sense, yeah.

Okay, so yeah, I would just start, I would start with that and, and, you know, listening to their language. Is that, is that empowered language? You know, is that, is that language that indicates to me, you know, this person is sort of thinking, etc., who they need to be to get where they want to go? Or like Is it disempowered language? Okay.

No, that makes a lot of sense, actually.

Yeah. All right. And then you can just start with observation because a lot of sales reps, we just get in a call, we get to the end. But like, you know, a good place to start is just being very intentional about besides just having a conversation with this person, like, I'm going to pay closer attention to like their facial expressions. I'm going to pay closer attention to their tone, to their language. Like, I'm just gonna pay more attention to that and go, oh, that's interesting. Like, I hadn't— I haven't noticed that before. Yeah, I wonder what's behind that. What might that person have to believe to say that? How might they be thinking about this in order— like, that would cause them to say that?

And then just reverse engineer it, and then you're able— yeah, I feel like tons of reps, you're able just to have like a little bank there that you, you rely on.

Yeah, yeah. And then you'll start to build that awareness and build that intuition to where, like, within, you know, oftentimes within a person literally turns on their camera and I'm like, ah, cool. Yeah, I know exactly where we're at.

Okay, I can't wait to get to that point.

Um, all right, did that, did that help? Yeah, yeah.

What, what was that guy's name again? The, the, the This is David R. Hawkins.

There is also Frederick Dodson.

Okay.

Has done some kind of like very, very similar like kind of version of it, his own like perspective on it. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that even came from somewhere, you know, just an evolution of like, I don't know, someone.

Yeah, no, because it is interesting. I like that part of just humans and just psychology, everything. So I'm going to read up on it.

Yeah. And like, look, the most, like, it all starts with self-awareness. Like, it's like a high-level state, there's awareness of self and awareness of others. In a low-level state, there's not even awareness of self. How can I be very aware of others if I'm not even, I don't even have self-awareness. And so sales reps, like, developing that self-awareness will then allow us to develop awareness of others. So, you know, just start with yourself more, and the more it'll just— it just kind of goes hand in hand, you know?

Yeah, no, I, I like that. Yeah, cool. Thanks, Laura.

All right, appreciate it.

Pleasure. Um, Paul, how can I help?

Hi, thanks so much. So I'm a newbie to sales. Um, I'm transferring from being a financial professional to buying residential real estate. So my interactions are in person and it's a variable type of offer, right? No, no two situations are exactly the same. I'm going through the process of establishing rapport, going through discovery, trying to ferret out the objections, then going through our process or trying to get tie-downs along the way, and then ultimately going for the close with the offer and trying to get them to say, okay, here's my lawyer who will represent me in this transaction. And I'm finding that when I get to the offer, I'm getting hit with some objections that I didn't anticipate. Right. I mean, it could be a price objection, but it could be uncertainty about the process. It could be, I'll think about it. It could be, I need to ask my wife, you know, even though you would think that one should have been ferreted out long before they ever met me. Okay.

So wait, quick, quick, quick question. I just want to make sure I understand exactly what you're doing. Do you mean just like real estate or is it like wholesale? Wholesale?

No, it's like, it's like real, real estate from, from people who need to sell.

So like wholesale, like they're kind of in a situation where they're like, I've got to get rid of this. Yeah.

They're kind of in a situation. So this is, this is in person, right? I mean, they've, we've qualified them, they filled out a form, though somebody spoke to them on the phone, you know, and established that they're for real. But then, no, I'm going out, I'm going out to a property and I'm establishing rapport.

And, uh, you know, I just want to make sure I'm clear, like, what's, what's the question here?

The question is, what can I do better in discovery so that I don't get hit with unanticipated objections when it comes time to close?

That's a big question. I don't know, because I don't know how you're running your discovery, right? I don't know what you're doing well. I don't know what you're missing. What I can make a suggestion though on, on like where to start, uh, if you would like.

Sure, I'm open.

All right. I would start, I would start with, like in sales, you know, there always feels like there's a bazillion problems that we could solve. Start with patterns and then start with the most common patterns. So for example, like, I don't want to deal with anomalies, red herrings, like, oh, you know, like randomly every now and then someone says this random objection. It's like, okay, cool. Leave that alone. Start with like, what am I getting most commonly? And then start to understand. Then we can go, all right, cool. Well, like, what might I be doing or not doing that is allowing that objection then to come up at the end? And, you know, we start with that. Okay. Now I would say, look, how you said you're new to sales. How new are we talking?

I'm sorry, could you please repeat that?

Yeah. You said you were new to sales. How new?

Um, I mean, I've been studying on my own, but I'm, I've just been going out in the field for a few weeks.

Yeah, look, dude, like, honestly, a lot of what you're seeing now are probably more just symptoms of you haven't been doing it for very long, you know? And rather than focusing on like, how do I prevent those objections, I would be focusing on like, do I have my process sorted? You know, here's like a guide for, you know, start to finish of the conversation. And do I, have I kind of memorized that process to where like, I don't, I'm not having to think about what do I say next? Like, I kind of know where, I know where I'm going to take the conversation. If I were to wake you up in the middle of the night and tip cold water on you and be like, recite your process, like you would be able to do it without looking at it. And then am I, am I consistent? Like I'm having a pretty consistent conversation with like everybody. You know, until those things are sort of taken care of, then like it's difficult to problem solve things that are happening at the end because we don't really have a, you know, we don't have a solid way to look at it and go, all right, cool, what might be causing that? You know, if I'm doing different things every time, it's like, well, I don't know, it's too hard to diagnose. So I would start like, make sure that that is all taken care of. And if you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that heart is taken care of, I'm having pretty consistent conversations every time, I understand my process, it's in my head, like I'm not having to think on the spot or anything like that, like, all right, cool, then we go into problem solving. But otherwise, the solution is just get better, you know, just get, get to the point where you feel competent in your current process. Otherwise, it's all just symptoms of that.

Okay, so that makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I've got the process down pretty good, or the script. Okay, but sometimes I encounter people who will start to talk up aspects of their house, right, which, which I don't really think are talk-up worthy. But when they start talking it up, it, it, it's like a flag to me that they're not really going to be ready to take my offer because they put a different value on certain things than I do. Would you recommend just like agreeing with them and then try to pull them back into the script? Or is there something else that you would do along the way?

I mean, it depends. I mean, I think that's natural because no one wants to get offered or paid less for the house than they would like. So I wouldn't necessarily look at that like in a negative light. I would more so approach it with like curiosity, you know, like, and if I haven't seen or inspected the house yet, like I mean, I don't know for sure. So I guess just get curious about that. And then the next layer to that would be I can start to ask questions that maybe create a little bit of doubt and sort of bring that, bring that pride a little bit down, so to speak, so that I can kind of reset like expectations. But, but again, just start with like one thing at a time. So, you know, it's like, all right, is the one thing that I feel like it makes sense to focus on right now, the people that are talking their house up, like, is that maybe what's causing the most common objection I'm getting at the end? If so, Cool. Focus on that. Or is it maybe just having a look at some of my conversations and going, all right, what might be leading to that in the first place? You know, reviewing those and kind of reversing it back. But like, just pick one thing to begin with.

Okay.

All right. So like, what's the most— what's the— what's the objection that you hear most often?

Oh, probably that I've got to think of, I've got to think about it. But my concern there is that they're going to pull in others, though, other competitors.

Yeah, maybe. But so then I would start with that, like, as in, you know, how competent do you feel that you are in taking an objection from I need to think about it to understanding exactly what the concern is?

I was certainly listening to your discussions earlier with the other two gentlemen who were role-playing, and I'm working on that. I think I need more experience in that and asking them what they need. Certainly it's pretty easy to say, oh, really? What do you need to think about, or what's really concerning you? That's like an automatic. But then based on the answer that they give to that question, then I've got—

that's where the real pattern— yeah, that's where the real pattern lies. So it's kind of like, because the think about it is not a lot of useful information. If we're getting think about it a lot, it does tell me that we are potentially— we might be giving them too much to think about, or, you know, something off there. Like, you shouldn't get think about it very often. But if I am, then I want to get beneath the think about it to find out, like, okay, well, what's the actual objection? Because that's going to shine some light on the pattern. And then from there, we can figure out, okay, how do I solve that? Okay, so I would start with like, for example, how I went over with Timothy. It's like, okay, if I'm getting— if think about it's what I'm getting most often right now, I need data, I need to figure out what's going on. So I'm just going to focus on getting really, really competent at taking it from think about it to here is my actual concern, um, and then that is data. So start to record that and then jump on the next call and it's like, cool, so here is what I'm getting kind of beneath that, and then you'll start to see the pattern, and then the pattern is what we want to focus our attention on.

Yeah, I really like how you said earlier, you know, in that conversation, oh, let me see how I can help you. I thought that was good.

Cool. All right, all right, I'm gonna jump on. I want to squeeze in if I can. I hope that helps. Um, Mark, how can I help?

Yeah, so, uh, question, and like B2B I, I came from B2C for a long time, last like 3 or 4 years. Is there like a different mindset that you got to go about it in B2B? I get a lot of like business owners who are like just reluctant to open up about like how big their like gap is and their income level that they want it to be or whatever. The— usually that's the pain point that we shoot for is like their gap in the income level, um, but they're kind of reluctant to to like admit how big of a problem that is or like to connect a real desire in B2B, right? So like, how can I break that wall with them? And like, what track, I guess, or what line of thinking do I need to like, go from like, it's not that big of a, you know, it's just a surface level issue to like, I know, like, you got to do something about this now. I know that's like in the scripting, right? But yeah, I need to think about it at like a high level to kind of break that.

It starts at the top of the call. Like, I, I, I, my focus in the top of the call is to get them to like lower, you know, to lower their guard. Because if I don't do that at the top of the call, it just becomes harder and harder through the remainder of the call to get them to open, you know, to get them to open up. What might help is if you open a role-playing for even just a couple of minutes, I can have someone be a prospect for you. A bit like that prospect and I'll just have a, I'll just observe how we might be going about that now. Yeah.

The first part of the call.

Yeah. Just the top, just take it on the top, be your normal self. Um, you know, like Matthew, I think Matt's got his hand up. So you tell me if this is right, Mark, but it just sounds like a bit of a matter of fact kind of business owner, you know, they're keeping their cards a little bit close to their chest. Kind of a bit curious as opposed to here's what's going on. And yeah, you're trying to figure out like, what's up? Does that sound right?

Yeah.

Like there's not too much buy-in before they get to me at all. They're more curious about the process than anything.

So, okay, cool. So yeah, so there's a little bit of resistance there. Um, Matt, you can, you can do that, right?

I always can do that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Just kick it off when you're ready, Mark.

Hey Matt, so appreciate you jumping on, man. So from what I saw, you booked a time to see about adding like another revenue stream to your business and to like possibly escape like the client work grind. Is that right?

Uh, yeah, yeah, somewhat.

All right. So just so you're aware, like the way we usually like run these calls is, well, it's pretty straightforward. It's just really about understanding like what you're doing now and kind of like the results you're getting and like compared to that and like where you might want to take your agency, right? And now, are you with me on that, Matthew?

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I hear you. That makes sense.

Now, because the mastermind is a bit different than most groups, affiliates in there are spending millions and I just want to see like where you're at with the agency side. And the offers you're running now, just to see if like we can even bridge that gap for you. So if like towards the end of the call, if you feel like this isn't too advanced for where you're at, and it sounds like it could simplify things for you, we can talk about next steps. Does that sound fair?

Uh, yeah. Can you— yeah, that makes—

I, I—

yeah, that makes sense.

That's like pretty much the opening.

Okay. Is that, and that, I know I put you on the spot, so you might've been like, wow, you know, is that, is that pretty close to how we conduct ourselves and what we say at the top of the call?

Yeah. Like the owner of the company wants to talk about how elite the mastermind is and everything up front. He kind of wants that in there.

So just me from the outside, like looking in, I would say that like if you're struggling with some resistance at the top of the call, getting them to open up, it's probably just a symptom of how we're starting the call out.

Okay.

So the question, some of the questions we're asking, the things that we're saying, and then even our tone. So the big one with tone, a lot of people shit on tone, but I just think that, I don't know, they're just having fun shitting on tone. But it's like, like our tone is what allows us to influence how somebody feels. And it's how I, I say to you like, hey, here's what my intention is. And so if my intention is to get them to feel like kind of cool, calm, relaxed, and to open up to me, like that's how I want them to feel. And so because of that, I'm— for me, there's a lot of like curiosity, a lot of like inflections. Sometimes there's some humor, like, you know, Matt Ryder, for example, starts his calls off with like, can you hear me? Can you see me? You know, I'm not blinding you too much with like my head, am I? Like, yeah, there's no glare in your eyes, like something like that. They always like get a laugh out of that. Sometimes they're bald too, they take that off, they're like, oh, I got the same hairdresser as you. Breaks the ice really quick, you know, that's what I'm looking to do. Whereas if I go in and my tone is just like very matter of fact, hey, looks like you booked on, you know, booked in about like some extra income, right? Okay, like, you know, here's the purpose of the call. Like, you know, even that was quite, I'd say quite vague. I would start it off a bit more like this. Now I don't obviously understand exactly what you do in depth, but I'll just role play it with you now. Hey, hey, Matt, can you hear me? Can you see me?

I got you. I can hear you.

Yeah, well, firstly, it's good to meet you. My name is Laura. I'm XYZ, cool sounding position here in company. And it looks like you've booked some time on my calendar about some possible outside help with insert kind of high level what they might be looking for, like making more income or something like that. Is that, is that, is that right?

That's right.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I suppose just so I understand, because I mean, everybody comes to us for that. Do you know what you're looking for, like specifically though, out of adding an additional income stream to your business?

Yeah, I like that a lot. Say it again. Sorry.

I was just like—

I know what you're saying.

An additional stream of income in your business because like everybody comes to us for that. Like, like I guess more What's, you know, do you know what you're looking for? Like, like specifically?

Not really. I saw on your ad that like you guys had access to like some offers that were better than most. So that's kind of why I'm here.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sweet. So pause. So notice like my tone, like my inflection. I'm just going to show some interest in you first. Like, like, you know, like, why are we here? You know? 'Oh yeah, like, what was it specifically, you know, how come that stood out to you,' or yada yada yada. Yeah, and like, 'Oh hey, before I forget to ask, I believe we might have sent you over like a couple of resources, just a bit of, you know, who we are, what we do, just to bring you up to speed, make sure we're on the same page today. Like, did you get a chance to, to go through that?' Yeah. Yeah. Did it bore you? Yeah.

Do what?

Did it bore you? Did you hate it?

No, it was interesting. I liked how you guys said that was interesting. Yeah. How you guys had like the proven like database, like, and you guys like vet things out. That was pretty, that was pretty interesting.

Okay. Why, why, why did that interest you?

Uh, cause I'm tired of spending money on shit offers.

Are you? How can we do that?

I don't know. It's, you gotta spend money to test them out, so.

Okay. Yeah. Cool. Okay, cool. So I'll pull it up. We'll pull it up there. So just focusing that top of the call, like just lightening up a little bit because they're going to, you know, we're control— we control like the pace, we control the energy. And so if you're like, oh, they're like pretty flat and not really opening up to me, but like you're kind of carrying yourself a little bit that way, well, they're just gonna— they're just gonna get a read of you and kind of match that. And so what I want them to almost think about is me is not like that I don't know nothing, but I don't take myself too seriously. Like 'Hey, looks like you booked my calendar about some possible help with this.' And I want them to be like, 'Oh, okay, like, all right, this person doesn't sort of take themselves too seriously, and I'm just showing interest in them.' And like, the quicker I'm kind of like, you know, 'Oh really, why is that? How does that stand out? Ah, in what way?' Like, they'll just start to open up because I'm pretty quick at the start, which means that they don't almost consciously have time to really think about what I'm asking and decide whether they want to answer it or how do I answer this. They just unconsciously answer it. And then that act of opening up is almost like telling their unconscious, like, oh, it's safe to open up because you already have. And now, like, they just, they just, oh well, you know, now I've opened up, I may as well keep opening up. So just start, just try that and see what happens. Yeah, I want to appear warm and friendly.

Yeah.

So it's just a I'm not overexcited or anything. I'm like, hey, Mark, can you, can you hear me? Can you see me? Okay, well, firstly, good to meet you. My name is Laura. I'm insert position that makes me kind of sound important in the company. And, you know, looks like you've, you know, looked on my calendar about some possible help with XYZ. Is that, is that right?

That's right.

Oh yeah, cool. Show interest. See what happens when you lighten up.

All right, thanks.

And then report back.

All right.

Will do. Appreciate it.

And they're just humans. Like resistance at the top of a call is typically just uncertainty. They don't really know how the call is going to go. They didn't know who they were going to be speaking to. They didn't know what you look like. They didn't know what you were sounding like. Like they, like, there's just, there's, there's uncertainty at this point. And so like any of that resistance is just a mask where they're like, I just, I don't feel their nervous system is like, I don't, I don't feel safe yet. And yeah, they might be a businessman. Right? But like, they're just— they're still a human. They're like sussing it out. And so I want to be like, hey, it's chill, it's safe.

Cool.

All right.

Do you think a Loom video will help before— beforehand?

Um, I mean, maybe. Like, probably something that's easy. And certainly if you've got the capacity to do that, like gaps in your calendar, is just— I used to endeavor to give people who booked on my calendar a quick call as soon as possible to when they booked.

Yeah.

And, and just being like, you know, had a couple minutes between appointments, like just checking, you know, so you booked in about some possible this, like just wanted to make sure to get the invite, you get everything, you know, just so we're not having to sort out anything kind of last minute. And then, um, you know, hey, like before, before I go, um, just real quick, like, like what, what are you sort of hoping to get out? Like what are you most hoping to get out of conversation with me? On Thursday, just so, you know, I can make sure I'm just prepared. Ah, really? In what way? What do you mean? Yada yada yada. Like, I just do a really light discovery and build some rapport, and then that way I get them looking forward to the next conversation. And like, then when we do get on the Zoom call, it's not the first time that they've like— like, they kind of— there's a— there's some familiarity already. Yeah. And I get to kind of without saying it, be like, oh cool, my intention is just to help, you know, I've shown interest in you. And they're like, oh, okay. Yeah, that seems all right. That's what I would start.

Okay.

That'll, that will be all right. And then, but, but remember, so, so that same energy and thought process I just talked about there, take that into that initial call, um, with them. Yeah. That was just in the quiz, pal.

Yeah. Okay, thank you.

Because that's what my goal is there, is just to like get them a bit more comfortable. That's why I'm giving them that call. And if it works, then the show rate's way higher and they're, you know, they're quite— they're more comfortable when we get on the Zoom call.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, thank you.

Pleasure. Um, all right, uh, Alexander, I got a little bit more time before I gotta go to my next meeting, so I might as well stay. I don't know what else I'm gonna do for them.

All right guys, how you doing? Hey, how you doing? My name is Alex and I'm out here in Mexico. I actually work at one of the Hard Rocks over here in Riviera Maya. And actually, this, what I want to ask, it goes a little bit hand in hand to what you guys were talking about. And it's this resistance that the clients have sometimes to the type of sale that you might want to be doing. But since ours is in person, It's not like a call. And well, you know how tourism works, and I bet that whenever you guys have gone over and, um, on vacation, you always get bombarded by packages, by tours, all that type of stuff, right? And what I sell is just a package for one more vacation with a 50% discount on a frozen rate. And basically, by the point that I meet them at the lobby whenever they're leaving Basically, our sale, it goes just like the energy, like you were saying right now, like, hey, how you doing? You do a little discovery, see how they're leaving the resort and all that stuff. But most of the people, of course, they have this resistance to buying at that point, right? Because they've been sold to so much that whenever they get to you, they're not even willing to listen.

Right. Yeah. So wait, quick question. Are they— they've stayed at like a hotel or whatever, and they are— it's the end of their stay, they're leaving, and then you're sort of initiating a conversation with them, is that right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, let's say—

okay, and then just understand that the aim is to what, like, uh, kind of get them committed to their next stay with the hotel or something like that?

Yeah, basically you tell them that they're gonna get a frozen rate, uh, then they can pay it off within the next 2 years. The only thing that you ask from them is an reservation of price point, right? $399, which is what we ask for. And basically a lot of them, they are not even willing to hear you out because you, to approach them, you do a little bit.

How are you starting the conversation? Like, role play it with me. I'm leaving the hotel now. How do you, what do you say when you approach me?

Hey guys, how you doing? You already did your checkout, right? All right, perfect.

What's your, what's your reason? Yeah, I just, I just, I just checked out. Yeah, we just checked out then. All sorted. Perfect.

What's your room number? And that way I always know what everything—

role play it.

Perfect. All right, check it out.

All right, perfect.

Uh, Miss Laura, right?

Okay, perfect.

Uh, I can see that you stayed, uh, for a whole week over here at the resort. How was everything during your stay?

Oh yeah, it was good. No, we loved it. It's very relaxing. It's exactly what we needed, you know. Service was good. Yeah, no, it was good.

I'm glad to hear that you liked it. We actually love to hear that. And do you think that you'd be doing anything like this type of vacation within the next few years?

I don't know, you know, just kind of, I don't know yet, haven't thought much about it.

Yeah, and of course, whenever people are leaving the resort, it's a little bit hard to think about your next vacation, right?

But let's pull it up there. I'm just mindful of time. I've got one suggestion for you. It certainly wasn't bad by any means. I thought what you did well was that you started out with like, how was your stay and how was everything? My recommendation would be don't treat that like it's like just something to do so I can get to my next question. Like, stay there a little bit.

Okay.

Because like, spend a little bit of time to almost be like, look, my main intention is to ensure that you enjoyed yourself here.

Okay.

As opposed to, oh yeah, cool, glad you were happy. Do you think you'll be traveling again at some point? And now I'm shifting away from that into like, a completely different conversation.

Of course.

Yeah. So if you just take a bit more time to show interest, if they're like, oh yeah, no, it was great. Like, ah, I mean, I'm glad you didn't hate it. Right. What did you like? What did you like? Yeah. Okay. And like, is this a trip that you had planned for a while? Or like, what, I guess what brought you guys here? What was the purpose of the trip?

Yeah.

Have you stayed with us before? Was this like your first time? Ah, interesting. I mean, look, I mean, there's 1,000 hotels in this area. I suppose what was the reason that, you know, I guess ultimately decided to stay with us?

Okay.

Yeah. Why is that? And, you know, I mean, did what you were like hoping XYZ was like, like, did that kind of match up with like your expectation now you've actually stayed here? Or, you know, so just spend some time there. And then get curious about like, you know, I mean, I know you're only, you're only just wrapping up your, you know, this holiday, you know, even just like, where to from here? Like, you guys heading home, you know what I mean? So what I'm saying is like, just spend a little bit more time.

Spend more time on the questions.

Showing interest in them. Yeah, 100%. And then it's like, from there, like, you know, you can maybe, I can get curious too about like holiday behavior, you know, like, you know, is this something that they have booked for a while? Are these the type of people that kind of schedule trips like in advance? Was this like a last-minute thing? Like, what type of kind of holiday are they? You know, have they like— have you guys like, you know, if you've got more trips planned in the future, or is it more like, no, you know, we've just done this one, no idea what we're going to do next? And, you know, cool. Now you can start to transition into that conversation. Okay. And then I can be like, well, hey, I don't know if this would help or not, but like, did anybody kind of like make you aware of what type of deals you are able to access moving forward should you decide that you might want to like visit again? Or like, did anybody kind of fill you in on what you get to access now? Because, oh, no, I don't think so. Oh, I apologize. 'Well, I mean, if you'd like, I can just kind of go over some of what you are able to access again. And look, you may not want to, but should you decide, you know what, wasn't half bad staying here, we might want to come back, well, at least, you know, you can get, you know, what benefits you're able to access. They don't just kind of, you know, go to waste. Would you want to know what those are?' Okay, sweet. Yeah. So, and then cool, like, share a bit about them, and then I can just inch them towards, like, potentially instead of it just being another bombardment.

Option, just get them to like, yeah, I get what you're saying.

Yes, inch it forward a little bit more. And that's how I would do it. Like, hey, I don't know, like someone might have told you about this already. Did someone fill you in on, like, I mean, because you've been a guest now already, like what type of deals you might have access to the next time you stay, if you ever stay with us again, you know? Yes or no?

No?

Oh, okay. I mean, you know, well, I mean, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want you leaving not knowing what kind of deals that you can get. Do you want to know at least what you can get in case 'You do want to stay again? Okay, cool, here they are.' And then I can go towards like maybe them locking in those deals now. That's the direction that I would take it. So the thing I would start with more is, yeah, more time showing interest in their stay and their holiday, just like build some rapport there. And then you can transition into, um, and just treat it very like, 'This wasn't really my intention. I just kind of, you know, you guys are on your way out, I just want to check, did someone fill you in?' rather than pushing into that part of the conversation. Make it feel a little bit more like— give them a bit more of a sense of like control, even if it is false control, so to speak.

Yeah, I totally see what you're saying. And yeah, it's just amazing pressure.

And then they can be like— they feel like they're in control, so they can be like, oh, uh, yeah, I mean, yeah, okay, yeah, that would be good. Yeah, okay, well, what kind of deals could we access next time?

Because, uh, there are— because obviously there's the time variant because we have transportation all that time, uh, all the time out here. But for what I've done and for what I can see and for what you're saying right now, there's been a lot of times where I've done it that way. And now that I'm like— that you said it like that and that I can consciously see it, I can totally tell that the times that I've done it like that, and every time that it's subtler, every time that they do have that sense of false control over you, that's the times that it works the best, and that's the times where they're more interested in it.

Yeah.

Okay.

People don't like to feel like they're being pushed through a process or anything like that. So if you just treat it like you're just— this is just customer service, and then I'm inching them one step at a time until I get to that point where I'm like, well, hey, and look guys, it's completely up to you, of course, but if you feel like there's a good chance, you know, you would like to stay again and you know, you'd like to save money on your next, like, stay. Do you feel like it might be helpful if, if we sort of got that set up and, like, locked in so that next time you stay you do get access to the best possible rates rather than, like, kind of waiting and booking it later where, you know, you might end up having to, like, kind of pay a lot more? Yeah, like, is, is that something that might help you, or, or like, or not? Yeah, yeah, keep it simple like that. Okay, perfect.

Thank you so much, Laura.

Pleasure. Let me know how you go with that. I'll let you know. Matt, you did have your hand up and I realized it went down. So do you still have a question or you're just on mute?

Hello. There I am. Okay, so question around— there's a lot of people kind of getting into we'll find it in situation or find it in solution awareness where they're just highly skeptical, right? Because they're just like, man, you know, there's— one guy was like, he's like, there's so many charlatans out there who say they want things.

Like charlatans? What's that mean?

Yeah, so I asked them, what do you mean by charlatan?

Yeah, just, just here.

And he's just like, they say one thing And then behind it, it's not like, it's not, it's not actually what it is.

Yeah. Okay. Is that like, I guess just so I understand, is that an experience or is that an experience that like you've had or gone through or, or what's causing you to say that?

So there's two people. There's the ones who have gone through that. Maybe they have like three mentorships, breaking the fourth wall here, or there's the ones who have never done it. But are nervous of doing it because of that reason, like investing.

Yeah, yeah. So I think with that, like, it depends on where it happens. If it's like, I don't know, this is right at the top of the call, obviously I'm like, cool, got to build some rapport. So I just mentally note that I'll bring that up later when it makes sense to do so. And then I want to identify like, where is that belief coming from? Is it a belief based on like lived past experiences? Yeah, is it like, you know, they've gone through a number of things and, and maybe they, you know, what they thought they were getting was different, you know, and how many times? Or is it a case of like, oh, I did one thing, it didn't work out right, therefore that person was a charlatan, and therefore that means there's lots of charlatans out there? Or is it the person that's like, oh no, I haven't done anything, I just, I just know that, that there's lots of people out there like that? Yeah. And I'm like, how do you know? And so I want to put— because those, those are all different people to me.

Yep.

Um, yeah. And then the person that's tried like a number of different things, you know, can empathize, like what happened, you know, like what happened that caused you to feel like, oh, you're a charlatan, yada yada. And okay, before you, before you joined that mentorship though, like I suppose, did you Did you sort of see or feel like there were like clients and people that were getting results? Or like, you know, when you're inside of it, like, okay, so I guess in your mind then, if it, like, if it, if there were people that it did work for, yeah, then like, what, what do you feel was potentially missing that meant like it didn't, it didn't work for you? And then I can start to say, it's like, okay, I mean, can I offer a perspective? I can appreciate why you might be feeling the way that you are feeling. Like, I get it. I suppose, like, like, in your mind, if, if something was getting other people results, but maybe it didn't get the results that you wanted, does that mean that that person is a charlatan? Or does it mean that, like, it just, it didn't work the way that you, you had hoped for you? Personally. All right, well, let's, let's, let's look at that then. What, what do you feel like, why do you feel that that might be?

So there's, what I've seen is it either A, I can get them to hold on some responsibility of them actually not doing the work, and then like I ask the questions around there, clarify, and then like get them to go from a different point of view and commit to making different changes. The other one is, um, them just not having the support. Like, I start going through like, okay, what do you feel like was missing? Do you feel like if you had that, then blah, blah, blah. The ones that are the most tricky ones, like the ones I have a lot of experience in, is the ones who have not done anything due to that fear. Because there's two ways that I either do it, or there's one way I do it at this point, is I challenge a little bit.

Yeah, too much. Okay, so overall, let's role play it really quickly. And, you know, okay, you've said that like there's lots of charlatans out there or something anything like that. Um, you know, okay, lots of, lots of charlatans out there. Like, what do you, what do you, what do you mean by that?

Yeah, the people who like, they say that they, you know, they have like, they're making money, they're helping people, and maybe you see some testimonials, but those don't really matter. I mean, like, I think you can make those up. Um, but like, on the other side, you know, they're not— they're people just like grabbing money, almost like scam.

I'm not gonna say scams, but you know, like, that's what Okay, so I mean, look, I'm not here to argue the fact that, like, unfortunately there are some people out there who are not necessarily doing things that are in people's best interest, but I, I think both of us can agree that, that there are also people out there that are, you know, that are doing things that are in people's best interest, you know. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, no, I, I would agree with that. I mean, yeah, you probably appreciate that, like, some more like focus on the ones who aren't. I think you like— I think you can appreciate like just me being like, you know, kind of like more so having calls with multiple people, being able to like, yeah, yeah, sniffing it out first before I like invest into anything.

It's making sure that, you know, we, we work with people that are definitely doing things that are in our best interest. And, you know, I mean, that's smart. Um, I suppose those concerns that you have around like, you know, there's a lot of charlatans out there. Like, where do those concerns like come from? You know, as in, have you like— is that like— have you had one or more experiences where that sort of happened in the past? Or like, where does, where does that way of thinking come from, I guess?

Uh, no, no, no. I just like— you just see it all the time. No, like, I've never invested.

My first—

like, this would be my first time like really doing it.

Yeah. Okay, so can I ask then, how, like, how do you know that there are a lot of charlatans out there then?

I mean, you could just Google it. Like, if you read Reddit or you read, um, you know, some, some places have horrible testimonials. Like, in— yeah, there's all that stuff there as well.

Okay, and so then, um, well, I mean, look, it really depends on, on what you're looking for. You know, there's a saying that, like, uh, you know, you'll find what you're looking for. So it depends on if we're out there looking for reasons to do something or if we're out there looking for reasons not to do something. And, you know, at the end of the day, if somebody has a belief that most, if not all, people out there are charlatans, they're just out there, they're just like doing things that aren't in people's best interests, and I mean, there's nothing that I or anybody else can say or do that will convince that person otherwise if that is the belief that they have. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, for sure.

And so I suppose the— I'm not here— again, I'm not here to argue the fact that, like, unfortunately there are sometimes people out there who don't necessarily do things that are in people's best interest. But I suppose for me personally, I choose to believe that there are more people out there that are doing, you know, that are doing good. And, you know, there's evidence and due diligence that I can do to get an understanding of, like, okay, to me, knowing I can never know for sure until, like, you know, I suppose I work with that person, to me, does it seem like this person's, you know, they can do what they say they can do? Yeah. And so like, I guess what I'm curious to understand is like, you know, have you been out there like looking for people like that to where like, I suppose the evidence that you can gather, like you ascertain, okay, you know, it seems like this person can do what they're saying they can do, or do you feel like it's possible that that concern that, you know, there are charlatans out there it's kind of, you know, maybe, maybe held you back from doing that?

Yeah, I would say it held me back for sure.

Okay, and in what way? I appreciate your openness and your honesty, by the way. Like, I guess, in what way?

Yeah, I mean, like, I just— I've seen like the jillion of ads and bajillion of people saying they can do this, they can do that, they can do this, they can do that. So I mean, like, there's billions of people, and I mean, like, I'm just like, all right, well everyone's saying the same thing. So like, I just was like, all right, I'll just— yeah, not even hop on a call.

I guess like, I guess in your mind, like, what's, what's the only real way to know for sure whether something's gonna work for you or not?

Yeah, I guess like, do it. I just don't waste any money or wasting time or—

okay. And so can I offer a perspective though? Yeah, as long as I won't get mad at you, it's like I'm here to help. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want you to do that, like, like, like, because I'm here to help, you know, whether you work with us or not, it's not my concern. Um, it's, you know, it's just you getting where you want to go. And so like, if— oh no, I lost my train of thought. Um, what did you— what did I say before that?

Whether us or not, it's my concern.

Oh yes, you said don't waste time, waste money. Let's imagine I've got more context than this, okay. You know, now my best intention is to help, I suppose, like, have you considered how much time you potentially lost, how much money you potentially lost by not having, like, you know, engaged or just kind of put your hand up and got a little bit of help before now? Because maybe we've been so concerned that, like, God forbid we might shake hands and do business with, like, some kind of, like, charlatan? Have you, have you considered that?

Uh, no, I don't really think— I don't try not to think like that. I try to just not my personal—

Okay, so, well, so if you did think about it, if you did look back over the past 3 years with the struggles that you shared with me that you've had and X and Y and Z how much time and how much money, like, what do you feel like you've potentially missed out on in terms of time, money, opportunities because of that way of thinking of like, you know, allowing this thought that there's a lot of charlatans out there to prevent us from getting the help that we kind of ultimately feel like we need to get where we want to go?

Yeah, I mean, I guess I'd lost like, I mean, missed out on maybe like growing the business or maybe even um, getting it to where I want to be, you know, possibly.

Okay, cool. Pull it up there because I do have to get to another meeting now. But where I would continue is like, yeah, like I empathize, like, and it's like I'm not here to argue that there are like, you know, is it possible that there are charlatans out there, just people that are doing things not in people's best interest? Like, yes. Okay, like, are there also people out there, um, who are doing good things for people, but maybe the things they're doing haven't worked for certain individuals. Like, yes, and are they good people doing good things and yada yada? Yeah, it is. It's like, you know, you'll find what you're looking for though. It really depends, is this person looking for reasons to get some help or reasons like not to get some help? Because there's nothing I can do or say, nothing anyone can do or say that will convince a person that there are like predominantly good people out there, or if their belief is there are predominantly bad people out there. And so then I want to understand where does the way of thinking come from in the first place? Like, I want to understand how has this person arrived at that. Like, I'm thinking like, who's hurt this guy, you know? And then what is he concerned about? And like, I can empathize with that, but then go, okay, well, that way of thinking though, like if it's held you back from getting help because we're just so afraid that we might shake hands and do business with the wrong person, like what does that cost us then? You know? And so we're willing to kind of let that go then and look at it through a lens of like, you know, uh, reasons to get help and to do something, as opposed to like this skeptical lens where, you know, that's where I want to go. And I want to get him to just like committed to being open to looking at it through that lens.

Okay, cool.

There are more people out there that are like doing good things sense. It's not all like, you know what I mean? If I'm looking at the world through a lens of like, everybody's out there, there's so many people out there that want to hurt me, like, that's what I'm going to see. But if I choose to look at the world through a lens of, you know what, like, there are a lot of good people out there, yeah, then I'll notice more of that. Okay, it's okay to be concerned. Like, I don't want you to waste time or money either, but my concern is how much time, how much money have we potentially wasted though, just not having help? Having got some help before now, you know, like, right? You seem like a smart guy. You seem like a guy who could tell if someone's genuinely a charlatan or not. But yeah, all right, I gotta run. But that's the direction I start to take it, is like they get comfortable and then they open up a bit more and like, all right, cool, now let's attack this kind of way of thinking together.

That makes sense.

Yeah. All right, cool. I gotta run, guys. I hope that helps. And, uh, thank you so much, Laura. Aja, bye-bye.