She Outcloses Every Guy on the Team (Here’s Why)

Again, hola. There was someone else in the waiting room that I just let in. I'll just put a post. Hopefully people know that I'm back, but I'll put a post in group too.

Must time.

Yeah, I've been off a little bit, so.

Todor! Hey guys, how's it going?

Staying out of trouble?

Hey, hey, hey, you guys know each other?

Nope, we do now.

Ah, you do now. All right, uh, okay, uh, is it Todor? Is that right?

Todor, yeah.

All right, good to meet you. I don't know, have you been in one of my trainings before or no?

Likewise, Laura. No, I have not, first time, but I've seen your interview with Jermitt, like a while back.

Yes.

From the Fit2Sell, so it's pretty inspiring.

Nice. Well, good to have you here, and Mikkel and Ahmed. So we'll dive in. I'll just give you a real quick brief, I suppose, on kind of how I run my trainings. So I can help with anything kind of sales related. Like I've been across B2B, B2C, coaching, all sorts of things. I was one of the trainers for 7th Level for like 2 years training my C clients and stuff like that. But I'd say where my, I don't know if you call it my superpower or my area of expertise or what I really enjoy is helping to, helping sales reps to develop like their emotional intelligence. Behavioral influence and being able to adapt in real time on sales calls based on the person that you're speaking to. And the analogy I like to use is I certainly did this. Maybe I was just a manipulative little kid, but I'm sure some of you did this. Like there was a party you wanted to go to as a teenager, or you wanted to stay up late and you're like, I gotta ask mom or gotta ask dad. Like if you could, if you could tell that they were in a bad mood, Would you ask them? Or would you, would you wait? Maybe go ask someone else. Like, I would wait if I could tell my mom was in a bad mood. I'm like, alright, well, I'm not asking her whether I can go to a party on the weekend today. I'll see how she is tomorrow. Because I knew intuitively that the mood or emotional state that she was in would influence the outcome I would get. And it's the exact same in sales calls. Okay. So if we've got, if our prospects are in like lower level states, the outcome, the behavior will be no. The decision, the decision is a behavior. Even a think about it. If they, even if they're like, oh, I'll sign up tomorrow. Like in the moment, the decision is no. Yeah. So our goal is to, through the conversation that we have, ensure that they're in a, like a state that is conducive with a yes decision. Now, ethically, of course, if this is something that you genuinely believe and they genuinely believe will help them. Does that make sense, guys? Like why that's important? So level 1 is like, cool, I've got my process and I can have a consistent conversation with everybody I speak to. But the reality is you'll only convert so many people that way. Like you, you, you're not going to see like 65, 75, 85% conversion rates like I have just doing that. You'll be— you could probably get to like 50, 55-ish percent or whatever, like just understanding sales process. Okay, so with that, you can ask me questions, we can role play. Oftentimes a role play with anything you're struggling with is a better way to get feedback. Or if you have a snippet of a call recording that is like ready to go, the you can drop, hey, here's the timestamp, here's what I need. We can do that as well. But yeah, we'll kick it off. Just pop your hand up like the emoji hand up or whatever if you got feedback you're looking for. Toto, how can I help?

Thanks, Laura. That's a good perspective that you bring and I appreciate that. I'm doing at the moment sales on— I'm selling health and fitness to executives on LinkedIn. So my funnel is actually both organic and ads. And it's a fairly new gig. So I do have at the moment, so it's like a 2-call close. So my problem right now is like with all my organic connections, I've scraped their numbers and I'm basically doing dials. So first set call and then like a full call. So I have like a couple of recordings just with my opener and like objection handle right after the opener, 'cause it's pretty tough. Like I'm calling those typically like USA executives. Like director VP level or higher, and they're pretty— yeah, I mean, a lot of rejection.

I apologize, I'm a bit unwell, my brain's a bit slow today. Did you say that you are like, what is it you said you were selling? I missed that piece.

Help companies cope.

Yeah, and then are you like, so you're getting, you're finding leads through LinkedIn and then what, cold calling them or?

Yeah, so Well, kind of outbound. So one is organic, so connection requests. So they're still seeing the landing page, which is my personal page. So it's not fully cold, but one way is they accept the request and then 50% of those have numbers. So I dial those and then the other, I DM the ones that don't have a number, but the other process is LinkedIn ads. So they actually opted into a lead gen form. With a name and a number. So those are a bit more expensive to get.

But yeah, just so can I ask, with the ones where you call them, are you having a DM conversation first and you get to a point where they provide their number, or are you able to get their number off like LinkedIn? I don't use LinkedIn that much.

Oh yeah, yeah, you can. So a lot of those guys, because they're in sales themselves, they have their numbers because they're expecting that. It's typically their office numbers. So roughly 40% And 40% of those guys will have their numbers as public information.

So I'm basically just dialing their numbers.

Yeah, got it.

Okay, cool. And then, yeah, yeah, got it. So they're like, you know, they haven't— it's not completely cold, but they weren't necessarily expecting you to call them.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's correct.

Sweet. Got it. All right. And so then you said you've got like a couple of maybe clips of your opener. Are you looking for some feedback on that, or how can I help?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So the, the opener, feedback on the opener, and, and even like the objection handle. So I'm still fairly new into this process. Should I, um, I don't know if I can play them from, from my Close CRM, or I can, um, yeah, you can try, you can, you can try to, to do that.

You might need to go, um, actually, do you, how do you have it? Oh, because it's gonna be in the CRM. Um, see if you can click yes. Yeah, see if you can click share screen. Although it will show the contact details of the person, so you might want to have like maybe something up in front of it or whatever, you know, if that's going to be like an issue. And then when you click share screen, there is a little thing down the bottom that says also share tab audio. So you kind of need to share it as a tab, but you should be able to have like maybe another tab in front of it. So we can't see, I don't know, I can't promise you that you're not gonna give away the identity of the person that you were talking to.

That's all.

Otherwise, if you are concerned about that, we can just role play it and yeah. And then next time you could, or actually what I can do is I can come back to you. What I would recommend you do, download the call from Close. So it's a file on your, like on your computer instead. And then maybe upload it to Google Drive while you're sitting there, upload it to that, and then you should be able to screen share and just play it from Google Drive. We don't know who you're talking to. Does that make sense? Just a privacy kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, okay, do that and then I'll come back to you. Okay, let me know when you've got it sorted. Just pop in the chat once you've got that sorted. All right, Mikkel, how can I help?

Yeah, I was just actually like curious in terms of Just doing a role play and seeing if I'm actually doing the emotional intelligence in the correct way. Just doing any kind of role play through, yeah, alignment, objection handling, whatnot. It doesn't really matter. Just to see if I'm actually doing it correctly.

Doing emotional intelligence correctly. What do you mean?

Yeah. Like whatever, like I know there's a lot of different ways prospects can react, but just to see if I'm actually handling that specific Prospect in the correct way.

Can you give me an example of like a, like, is there a specific challenge that you feel like you're having with it?

Just make sure that I'm actually doing it like I can actually read them in the correct way. That makes sense.

All right. Matthew, can you be a prospect? Yeah. And then what is it? What is it you sell? What are you selling, Miguel?

It's a bit of for like people, the Instagram automation.

Instagram automation, BizOp. Okay. And then where are the leads coming from? Like, how are you getting their phone number?

Through VSL opt-ins or they like, they have, they buy a low ticket course. So they're aware of this and then go on call with us.

Yeah. And this call you want to role play? Would this be like an outbound because they've opted in or is this the actual sales conversation?

Yeah, this is the actual sales conversation.

Yeah.

Okay. Is it Zoom? Or phone call?

Zoom, yeah.

Okay, cool. You have everything you need, Matthew? Someone's got some background noise. It might be— I don't know if it's Ahmed or maybe it is you, Mikel.

Like, oh, that's good. There's complete silence right here. There's nothing going on.

Okay, maybe it's Ahmed. Can I just— I'm just going to mute you, Ahmed. Might be you. All right, it's gone now. Okay, so yeah, when you're ready, just Yeah, just to get a sense.

It's a BizOp.

Yeah.

E-commerce, is it, or does it really matter?

Yeah. Instagram automation, was it?

Oh yeah, Instagram automation. The thing doesn't really matter in that sense. It's basically, yeah, just like a BizOp.

Okay, cool.

All good, man. I'll just take a type of call. Yeah, man, Matthew, I can see that you booked into my calendar about possibly getting some help when it comes to Instagram automation. Is that correct?

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Awesome, man. How can I help?

Uh, yeah, well, I was just— I saw the, the, the, the sales letter, you know, the VSL.

Yeah.

And I thought, you know, a lot of there resonated, so I just wanted to hop on a call, see what you guys like do and like what was going on there.

Cool, man.

What really resonated with you in that VSL?

Uh, yeah, so I like that you were talking about how, you know, the auto— like there's like automations you can put into a business. Where this way, you know, I don't have to, you know, worry about messaging people or, or just the nuances of like the little things daily in and day in and out.

Yeah.

And I guess like with that, like what's like the kind of, the kind of outcome you're looking for by possibly having that in place?

Um, yeah, I would say like I would like to not have to DM as much people if I, if I could, but I'd like to be able—

wait, wait, sorry, pause for a second. I just want to make sure we're going the right direction. So Matt Ryder would have a job now and he wants to learn how to start a business. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. So you've got a job at the moment, Matt, and you want to, you want to kind of be able to learn how to, I guess, sell Instagram, sorry, automations to, I guess, business owners so that they don't have to do the thing that you're talking about. So you've got a job.

I'm selling the, the, the, the Instagram automations, or he's selling Instagram automations.

Okay, you're just like, you have a regular job, my mistake. Yeah, so you basically have a regular job, you're just looking to see, okay, can I even make money through Instagram, through like email marketing, whatnot, having something like a ghost page basically.

Oh yes, okay. Yeah, so you just imagine you just be someone who's like, you don't even have to know that much about Instagram automations. I find with a lot of biz ops, they're just kind of like a way to make money. I don't know how it works, I need to make money. So like, Yeah, so you've got a job now and you, you, you know, you want to make more money, that kind of thing. So yeah, just pick up from there, like, cool. As far as looking for—

yeah, so the outcome I'm looking for is I'm like, I'm, I'm pretty happy with my job that I have now, um, but I at least want to see like how I may be able to make a little bit extra money, like, you know, doing the, the XYZ.

I see. What do you do for work now, like, currently?

Uh, yeah, so I'm a I'm an executive for a tech company.

Nice, man. How long has that been the case?

That I've been there? Uh, 15 years. 15 years now.

Nice, man. And like, I guess, what's behind you wanting to explore other routes rather than just continuing with what you already have going? Because 15 years is like, that's a decent amount of time.

Yeah, uh, I mean, I like to be able to potentially make money like, you know, outside and sides. Like, I have a cap where I'm at now. Like, to be able to make more money, I'm gonna have to work either double the hours or get promoted, which I'm working on, but I don't see that happening in the next, like, you know, year or two years or three.

Okay.

And where are you capped at currently? Like, how does that look, uh, financially?

It's about $220,000.

So, okay.

And, and being there, like, what makes you feel like you potentially need more income? And that—

what would that even look like?

I don't know, who doesn't want more? Who wants to make more money?

Yeah, I mean, we're not here to make less. It's more to understand, man, because I don't want to give you something that might not specifically work for you. So when it actually comes to what's behind you even looking to do something else, like, what's even behind that, man? Because you, like, a lot of people would be quite comfortable making $220K a year.

Ah, it's just not me. Like, I want to keep, I want to keep making more money. I just look with everything going on right now, like I said, it's just going to take way too long to have to Yeah, I mean, yes, well, money is one thing, man, right?

Like, what are you going to do with the money? Like, is it just going to sit in the bank account sitting there collecting dust? And what's like, what's behind that?

Let's, let's, let's pull it up there. Who was paying attention? Me. I know you were. All right, Ahmed, what, what are a couple of things that you feel like Mikkel did well?

He's pretty leaned out throughout the entire call. His tonality is a bit neutral. He's asking him the right questions. Why is he comfortable? Why is he not comfortable with his current position?

Yeah, I'd agree. Yeah. Julia, I actually know I saw you duck away for a second. Maybe, Toto, were you paying attention?

I was, yeah.

Yeah. Cool. Couple of things, 1 to 2 things that you feel like Mikel could maybe improve.

Oh, as far as like feedback. Maybe I felt that it was challenging a bit too soon.

What makes you say that?

Well, pushing back and like probing into the money, but I think it's still—

What makes you feel like it was a little too soon though? This is good.

Well, it was like within like a couple of minutes into the call, but I guess it's not bad. I think it's like I'm fairly new, like maybe I need to be more forthright into my game. So for me, it just—

well, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna say like you hit the nail on the head there. Like I would agree with you, and I think that like intuitively, you know, that it was a little bit too soon. But what I've noticed is you're maybe not able to articulate like why, like why you know it was too soon. Because is it time that makes that too soon, or what is it that could make that too soon. Matthew, what would you say? Oh, you're on mute.

Rookie mistake. So we don't have like a solidified, really tangible problem on why he's actually doing that. Like, why am I looking to possibly—

you're searching for it.

That's my opinion on like, what would be, uh, what would be a factor that might influence, like, whether it's appropriate or not to really kind of probe and challenge on, like, why someone wants something. Like, whether I might do that sooner or whether I might, like, do it a little bit but find that more out later. It's going to be, like, the level of, like, rapport. Yeah. And, like, how would we describe Matt Ryder as a prospect? Was he really relaxed, really open, or was he— was there a little bit of, a little bit of a guard up perhaps?

I was guarded.

Yeah, exactly. And so that is the factor that would tell me that it's a little bit too soon to go probe, probe, probe. Now what I liked is that you were unafraid to go, he's not giving me the information that I want, so I'm going to keep going. But just, that's the EQ part where it's like, okay, I need to be mindful that if I push this too far too soon and I try to go personal with him, or what might feel personal because that's what he's indicating by the resistance, is like, I'm feeling a little bit uncomfortable, then I can, I can break rapport rather than like, like build it. And, you know, using your EQ then and even your IQ to go, well, you know what, I can, I can get more clarity on this later when I've, when I've built a little bit more like rapport. Does that make sense? Now I would agree with the ups. Your process was great. Like, I really liked a lot of like what you did. Well, that was really good. And then the reason I pulled you up where I did is that's where I kind of saw the first most obvious thing that could be like a challenge for you that might cause you challenge. Does that, does that make sense?

That really does make sense because again, it is like going into an elevator. You wouldn't ask someone all of a sudden, hey, what's your bank account balance right now? Like maybe that will come up later on. And that's usually what happens in like the Desire to Stay, whatnot. That's where we go in and dig deep. What would that actually mean and allow you to do? But for me, it was more to get something. 'Cause I felt like, yeah, I need more money was too vague, but I didn't wanna go too deep. So I still wanted something, but I can see that I went too far, yeah, too far down.

Yeah. Just think about it. You can get that later, can't you? When I'm about to maybe go into like future pacing, I can say like, hey man, like earlier you had, Matt Ryder sort of started to mention that, like, you know, you're capped where you are, you want to make more. I didn't think to ask, like, how much more are we talking? And now by that point, I've probably got more reports, or I can contextualize it, like, just to, just to make sure that we can actually help, like, we can get you where you want to go. Like, how much more are we actually talking? Yeah, you know, so you can get that stuff later. So I think, like, where you had enough, so to speak, for now, right? Is like I can go for, all right, cool, we've got, we've got, he wants to make more. We've got, what other really useful information do we have? He can make more in his current role, but it will require a promotion. It'll take too long. So the, it'll take too long is interesting because I want to know why has he decided that that's too long. There's got to be a reason that's too long. Okay. And then also he said the, I can't remember if I've said this already, but the, yeah, the capped the capped part. Did I say that? Capped. I can make more, but it'll like, it'll take too long. Okay. Like that, that kind of thing. And so it's like, all right, great. Like I've at least got, he wants to make more money. I've got like a rough kind of outcome. And then you did get the problem, right? Too, is like, like I'm capped where I am now. You got kind of two parts of it capped and I can make more, but like, it'll take me, it'll take me like a long time. Cool. Now I'm just going to, I can just probe and clarify into that. So it was a good question. Like, capped? Like, what do you mean? And okay. And so, I mean, a lot of people wouldn't be, you know, wouldn't we, would be all right being capped at, you know, $220K a year. You know what I mean? Can I ask, like, what's, what's the reason that, I don't know, I guess you, you don't want to be capped at like $220K a year. Okay. And then a moment ago you said that, like, I guess with time, with promotion that you're working on, like you could increase that. So I guess like, what's, what's really driving you the need for you at this point to look at potentially getting outside help to learn like Instagram automations and like increase your income that way rather than, uh, I guess to your point, just, just working on getting the promotion over the next year, 2 years, like you said, and I guess making more money that way. I go on and just do that. And then that will get me, I'm thinking, will get me pretty much everything that like I need at that point where I've got like the I've basically got that, like, that kind of why I want to do something like now, and then you can just get more clarity on it a bit later. The specifics later. Makes sense?

Yeah, that really makes sense.

All right. So yeah, I always tend to go for— and like, look, some people are super open, super engaged, and like, you can, you know, you can just, all right, may as well get this stuff quicker. But when they're a little bit like that, at the beginning, in the first part of the conversations, I at least just go for overarching goal and then think about it like just before you go in a future pace, I want more of the specifics. So a specific outcome. So rather than more money, it might be an additional $20K a month. And I want a timeframe. How soon do they want to be able to do that? So you can get that later.

Hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that really makes sense.

But otherwise, dude, that was, that was pretty strong. That's pretty strong. Good job.

Thanks.

My pleasure. All right, Toto, how are you going with your recording?

Yes, sir, I'm ready, I'm ready.

All right, let's have a go at that then, and then Ahmed, I'll come back to you.

Okay, but just be clear on your general recommendations for him is to basically go wide first and then again specifics once rapport is built, correct?

Yeah, yeah, exactly, because the prospect's indicating to you like resistance is just a It's just discomfort. That's all it is. And so, like, uncertainty creates resistance. And if you think about it, Michele's been talking to Matt Ryder for all of, like, 2 minutes. And, you know, Matt Ryder doesn't really know who Michele is. He doesn't really know how is this conversation going to go. Like, he's got his guard up because he's trying to figure out the situation a bit more. And so just the more of a conversation that we have, Mikael has more of an opportunity to put him a bit more at ease and he's going to, it's going to be easier to kind of like open him up. And what I don't want to do is kind of trigger his guard too much where Matt ends up saying something like, hey man, like I'm here to find out about like what you can do for me, Instagram automations. Like, you know, well, I don't, what's with all the questions. And now I've got to backpedal. So Mikael did the right thing by like, I would ask once, maybe ask like a second time, like contextualize it higher, you know, increase my, you know, more curious tone, right? To be like, hey, I'm safe. I'm just, I'm just really genuinely interested in finding a bit more out about you. And if I still kind of get a little bit of like pushback there, I'll just move on and go, all right, cool, noted. I can get that later anyway, it's really not a big deal. It's not gonna break anything right now. Like, if I keep going, it'll break.

So basically, for the first 10 minutes, keep it wide, maintain a curious tone until the guards are down, and then start the game.

Yeah, yeah, like connection situation is really just like, I want to get the guard, I want to get that guard down, like I want them to drop their guard because, yeah, that's the most important part. Number one is just let them, help them drop their guard. Before I get to like problem awareness, you know, get the guard down. Lots of curiosity, lots of interest, and just get them relaxed, get them talking. Okay, the more they start to talk, the more comfortable they'll be. Like unconsciously they're opening up to you, and unconsciously it's kind of like, all right, well, I'm opening up to him, it means it's safe to kind of keep opening up. And they'll just— it just creates some momentum.

Gotcha.

Okay. Is that clear? Good question. All right, cool. Ready, Toto? I'll make sure you've got audio on type thing. Yeah.

Yeah. So there's, well, there's two calls there, two, they're a minute each. If I, like, they're kind of unique. One is where the person is somewhat interested but asked me to call back later. And the other one makes, but it's not an excuse, but he says his wife's health is much worse. So he's focusing on that. So I was just a bit shocked of how to, well, I think the EQ would be very helpful in that case.

Okay.

Yeah.

Let me play this.

This is Michael. Hey Michael, this is Todd. We connected on LinkedIn.

Can you hear that?

Yeah, I can hear.

Yeah, yeah, we can hear you too.

Can you go back to the start though?

We can demonstration. What can I do? This is Michael. Hey Michael, this is Todd. We connected on LinkedIn a while back. How have you been? I'm good. I'm about to get on a demonstration. What can I do for you, sir? Oh, good, good. Well, I've only got a couple of minutes here as well, so I'll keep this brief. I work with busy executives who want a simpler and a more efficient system for, you know, managing their health, their energy. I guess, does that resonate with you or something you've noticed at all? Uh, not really.

Pause.

Okay.

So, uh, has anyone got feedback? One thing that you feel that Todd did well, one thing you feel like you could improve on? Yeah. Who said yeah? Is that you, Ahmed?

Yeah, that was me.

What would you improve?

Or what do you feel like he should— first of all, he should say where he's from. He said he's tall and we connected on LinkedIn. He should say which company he's from. Second of all, if the client is busy right away, you should maybe lead with, I didn't catch you at a bad time, did I? Or can you maybe spare 5 minutes right now?

Potentially.

Anything else? What do you feel like, what do you feel like Todd did well?

The tonality in the beginning, it's pretty relaxed.

That's pretty decent. Yeah, pretty nice.

Instant connection with us.

Cool. So yeah, I think, Todd, I would say that like right now, and is it cool if I call you Todd? Because I heard you say that, I'm like, oh, that's way easier. I'm going to pronounce that correctly. It's the North American way of saying it. So yeah, I would agree if the context here is that you have connected, like, is he aware that there's been a connection? Did you talk at all or like Or what? Has there been any to and fro on LinkedIn with this guy, or you just found his number?

Oh yeah, yeah, it's very cold. I might have DM'd him because I had some automations maybe like 6 months ago.

Uh, yeah, okay.

And then let's say we can assume he's either ignored me, um, or chances— or small chances he might have responded he's not interested.

Okay, so I think like just a bit more context. So suppose that we connected on LinkedIn like a couple months ago, and I don't know what your LinkedIn looks like, but maybe my LinkedIn is like my name and like kind of what I do, right? It might be like, if I role play it with you, like ring ring.

Hello, Tadora speaking.

Oh, hey Tadora, it's just, it's just Laura, Laura Bruce with, you know, XYZ. I don't know if you recall, but like a couple of months ago, we we connected on, on LinkedIn. Like, hopefully that, that rings a bell.

I'm trying to remember. It doesn't, it doesn't really.

No, that's not a problem at all. Like, like I said, it was a couple of months ago. Right. So pause. So just a bit more context on like, and you should have that, I imagine, like in your CRM, right? Is like, like lead with that because like, especially if some time has passed, I need to jog. And if there hasn't really been to and fro, like I've got to jog this guy's memory. If you just go in, like your name, you're kind of setting yourself up for like, I got no idea who this dude is, you know. So I don't know if you've got like, yeah, what you do or— yeah, pardon?

So the assumption, I assume most of them don't even remember me.

That's okay. Get them to say that. And then put yourself in the best position to be remembered. Like, I'm not sure if this rings a bell, but like, you know, we connected on LinkedIn a couple of months ago. You know, I'm the guy who you know, it sort of helps busy professionals to X, Y, and Z. Like, is that ringing any bells or I don't know, am I just talking nonsense at this point? Like, oh no, like I apologize, like it doesn't— Oh, not a problem at all. Look, I just, I had a couple minutes between like appointments and yeah, I mean, I was curious. You know, did you, like, was there maybe a reason that you felt like you did want to connect? Was it just that, like, that there was an opportunity to do so, or was there a chance that maybe you did see what I did and felt like there could be of, like, interest? Because that's what I kind of, for me, what I'm trying to suss out is like, Like if you sent me a request to connect or whatever, and I looked at your profile and I saw what you did and went, ah, okay, that seems cool. Yeah. Okay. I'll connect with this dude. Did I do that? Or did I just go, oh, I've got a connection request, connect. Because if I was the first person, then that gives me a way to start the conversation where it's kind of like, oh yeah, no, I did remember that. Like I did. I do remember kind of. 'Yeah, no, I did.' 'Okay, cool. And, you know, was there a reason that you, you know, did you feel like you might want to connect because you kind of resonated maybe in some way what I did, or was it just the fact— was it just a connection kind of thing? No big deal if it's— if it was just that.' And so that's kind of— and there might be more effective ways that you could kind of word that, or what sort of feels comfortable for you. But if they do say that, like, they saw what you did, 'Yeah, cool,' now I can kind of probe, like, 'Oh yeah, no, I did see that. Yeah, I thought it was interesting.' 'Oh, did you? What Why's that? Okay, now, so I think that would be the biggest thing is just like the context. And then if they don't remember anything at all, like, look, hey, not, not a problem at all. And then you can kind of go into the, you know, like, I'm not sure if, if this kind of resonates with you in any way, but I suppose, you know, a lot of times fizzy executives, professionals, they reach out to me because they're sometimes, you know, with, with like running a business and this and that, sometimes they find that, you know, they struggle a little bit to kind of keep the health and the fitness plate spinning. And over time they start to find like, you know, maybe that starts to have a bit of an impact on things like, like focus, concentration, energy levels, and, and, you know, it kind of spills into there. Into their business. But yeah, I mean, I don't want to assume anything. You know, does any of that resonate with you and, and, you know, what you might be experiencing or not at all, you know, rip-shredded and crushing it kind of thing? Okay. Does that help?

Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

So just that a little bit. And then I'd say like, you know, you definitely sound like neutral, but I'd say you sound a little bit too friendly, too, a little bit like almost like uncertain. So I can be curious and certain. I don't have to be like curious and uncertain. So what I mean by that is if you listen back to that again, like go back to the start, we'll just play it real quick. You don't need to hear much.

This is Michael. Hey Michael, this is Todd. We connected on LinkedIn a while back. How have you been? I'm.

What did you notice about your tone?

You're friendly.

Yeah, so I wanted you to talk again because do you notice the difference between your octave there and your octave there? Hi, Michael. You raised your whole octave, which can, is it like, can, can come across, it can either be or it can just come across as like a bit uncertain. So I can use a curious tone, but I can say, I can sound, I I can still sound certain. So instead of like, hey Michael, I could, I can say, hey Michael, you notice the difference? Hey, is that, is that Michael? Yeah, Michael, it's just, it's just Todd here with XYZ. As opposed to, hey Michael, yeah, it's just, it's just Todd here from, you see how like the octave thing, so bring your octave down, you'll sound more confident.

Got it.

Okay.

But keep the, keep the upward inflections. Cause that denotes curiosity.

Yeah. Good points.

Yeah. It's just the one, it's one thing I noticed that sales reps do sometimes is in aiming to be curious, like we sound uncertain and it's not about that. Like you can be curious and certain and that's, that's really what you want. Oh, so you're saying use your current octave and just upward inflections on the end.

I'll give that a try. I'll give that a try.

Yeah, with that, does that help?

Yeah, yeah, it does.

And then I'll just, I'll just go around to the other guys, and if you want to play another call, we can, we can do that as well. We've got time.

Okay, yeah, let's, um, I do, but yeah, let's spread it out.

Let's make sure I get to everybody. Um, wait, Ahmed, you did have your hand up, but it's gone down now. Did you have something you wanted to go over?

Yes, um, it's very basically a two-part question. Uh, first of all, how to— I basically have to prevent trust objections because I'm getting lately— I've been lately getting a lot of these.

Excuse me, give me an example. How do you know that you're getting trust objections?

Trust objections are usually like, I'm not— I'm so— yeah, that's also— that all sounds great, but I'm not entirely sure I'm gonna get the results that I've been promised here. And I'm curious about how to—

how—

what to say to that, first of all. Second of all, how to prevent that from happening in the first place.

Um, so I mean, it depends on where it's coming from in the first place. Now, what I mean by that is there's essentially— it's a value objection, right? Because why would I invest my money into something if I was— I'm like, if I wasn't sure I was going to get the outcome? Like, that's fair enough, right? And so, but it is a value objection might be, it could be built in like trust. So I think of value as this sort of 3 beliefs, really. The first is the belief that the company, the brand, can do what they say they can do. The second is that the process and the deliverables that you kind of laid out, like here's how we would help you to get the outcome, there's a belief that they can see that that would work. And then the third is belief in self, that they can do it. So think about fitness.

I think it's usually—

what do you feel like? Pardon?

It's usually the first one. It's like, I don't trust you guys to act.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so if that's the case, there's nothing really you can— there's very little. I don't want to say nothing because that's absolute, but there's very little that you can do or say in the sales conversation to convince them you can do what you say you can do if they believe otherwise. In reality, the more you do or say to try to convince them, the less they will trust that you can do what you, you know, you say you can do, right? So in my opinion, the most effective way to take care of objections you're getting like that is before the call. So are these, um, I'm gonna guess, but I don't want to assume that these are direct-to-sales calls. Are they booking straight from like ad to sales call, or is it a two-step? It's a two-step.

It's a two-step.

So the initial stage, I would be looking at like what are they getting in between the first and the second call, because really that's your opportunity to take care of that. They should be— we should be providing them with material that is of value, but it does satisfy their part, that part in their mind of helping them to go, okay, it looks like these guys can do what they say that they can do.

And then the material they get between that is, um, is a video, is a training, some training materials. It's about 70 minutes long explaining the entire pro— what, what they're usually missing and what they should fill up, because it's a mentorship program for it, for a business. Yeah, what exactly is missing and how to fill that up. And in between, there's, there are like some mini testimonials about people who have been somewhere and have gone into another place.

And then, well, the second part to that is all of that is great, but you want to make sure that there's compliance, as in they're going through it. So those are the two parts I need to make sure.

They do go through it. If they don't go through it, we rebook the call.

Okay.

And so then how often are you still getting like that kind of, I just, I'm not sure if you'll get, you guys can, you know, do what you say you can do, even though they're going through all that?

On around maybe 30% of the calls I'm having.

Okay, that's interesting. I would review that then, like, like maybe review— I would review that, be reviewing the client journey, because if I've got— here's the pro— like a breakdown of the process, here are like examples of people that were in your position that had the same problems that got the result, they're actually reviewing that. I think it's odd that you would be getting that kind of objection like that often. So I'd be reviewing like the quality like of it. Now with testimonials, so to speak, the worst kind of testimonial is like, this company was so great, I made so much more money, and it's just kind of like that. Like the best kind of testimonials are more case studies where it's sort of like, you know, I— this was the problem I had when I reached out to this company, um, this is the result that I have this amount of time later, and here's how they helped me to get that result. Because that gives like insight into the journey and it makes more sense rather than just someone sharing numbers. So I don't have time to like look at all in at that in depth for you, but I think it's odd that that's, you know, you've got things in place for that, they're reviewing it and you're still getting a lot of that. Like, I just, I think I would do a bit more of a deeper dive and find out what you can find because that's 30% is very high.

Yes. What about, what about, what about scenario B if they're not sure whether the deliverables are worth it? Or maybe use—

yeah, yes, that one can be a symptom of like the sales conversation, um, but it can also be a symptom of the person. Like some people are just a little bit unsure, or, um, or on the trust one as well, maybe they've had like a bad experience. But I doubt that 30% of the people that you're speaking to have like feel like they've been scammed before or believe everything is scams. But there can be that as well where someone has just like kind of got this belief I don't trust anybody. There is that too, right?

Because I'm mainly selling to engineers and they're usually a bit of the skeptical types. Ah, so, so I get a lot of that.

Okay. And then, yeah, the other can be like, it could be, look, I mean, dude, there's a lot, like, you know, I think a sales call review would be helpful for you, but it's like, it could be that we've not created enough doubt. So they're looking at this stuff and going, I don't freaking need that. Like, I don't actually think that would be any that helpful. I don't think it would be that worth it. Like, we're not created like a gap in their mind where they actually believe that they need this or that this is what they need. They might be like, I think I need something different, you know what I mean? Um, it can also just be, um, yeah, it might be hesitancy.

Have you got maybe 3 tips on how to prevent that?

Like, yes, get, get like, well, firstly, you do have to respectfully, like, you've got to get out of them, like, okay, like, what help, like, you know, the rationale kind of question. Okay, what's Like, what's the main reason that you're potentially looking for maybe some type of outside help with solving this problem so you can get this outcome rather than just, I don't know, whatever the obvious alternative might be, like kind of figure it out on your own or whatever. And you got to sit there and you have to have them answer that because it's like, we're not here to just make friends. Like, what's— what are you looking for help with exactly? Like, I need to understand, like, what's the reason that you're looking for help? Okay, get that. And then in ideal criteria, what do you feel like you need? Because that's your pitch. They're telling you what they feel like they need, and you're just steering them to your pillars. So that way, when you get to the pitch and you're like, this is how we would help you, and you ask, is this the right answer? Why would they say anything other than yes? Because you told— they told me, they gave me it 5 minutes ago. I just made sure to steer them in kind of the right direction. All right, so we can unpack this a lot more, but like, I gotta, I gotta get around, right? So yeah, I think like the easiest place to start is process. And so I would look at the pre-call stuff and go, how can I have this by just like, like, what, what's not working about this? Got to be something that's not working because that's much easier than changing your process in the sales conversation. So I would start there and then I would move to have a look at the sales conversation and like, am I getting them to admit that they need help? Am I, are we having a conversation around what they feel like they need from someone like us in order to solve this problem, get the outcome they want, why those things are important. When I'm pitching, am I making sure to talk about those things, and am I tying it back to— because you know how you said you had this problem, you know, that's, that's how we're going to overcome that and help you. Can you see how that would work? Am I getting buy-in? Okay, right. If I don't get buy-in, am I pulling up? Yeah, and like Am I getting curious about any hesitation? Like if I'm, if I go, can you see how that would help you? And they're like, I mean, I guess. Are you pulling up and going, I guess. I mean, you don't sound so sure. Like, what's behind that? Like that, just those little things. Go back, look at a couple of recent calls where you got that objection and look at that stuff.

Yeah.

What did they say even when you're like, you know, I sent you some new material ahead of time. You know, how much of that were you able to get through? Oh yeah, I went through it. Okay. What were your thoughts on what you went through? Are they giving you positive feedback or are they giving you feedback like, "Uh, I mean, it didn't really tell me too much. I still don't really know what you guys do." That tells me that the resources aren't effective and like there's still kind of resistance there. Now, if that happens every now and then, that's fine. You know, people are people. But if it's happening a lot, it tells me, "Ah, okay, there might be— we might be able to use that feedback we're getting about the reason they maybe didn't find the resources particularly helpful to make better resources." Okay. Yeah, thank you. All right, cool. Hope that helps. Um, all right, Julia.

Um, hello.

Hey.

Can you hang on a sec? I'm just on the phone. School holidays. Um, I wanted to ask you a random one. You know how you like have a call with someone and, you know, it feels like a good call and they give you a think about it and you're like, yeah, cool, whatever, and then they ghost you on follow-ups. Do you, do you ever write like something emotional to them in the follow-up to get them to like an NLP, um, an NLP? Like in She Sells, I talk about sending—

I mean, I mean, you can, but like, would you rather focus on how to like, solve, like, fix the problem after the fact, or would you rather focus on how to prevent that from, like, happening in the first place?

Yeah, this is what I need. Like, I just need some, like, um, you know, some, like, a reality check.

Like, it's like, like, because it's like, let's say, you know what I mean?

I am trying to, but yeah, that's okay.

That's like, I just, I guess I'm asking is, like, are you cool if we talk about that? Because I can we can talk about that, but I'd rather you just get less of that actually happening. You know what I mean? Like, right. So can you give me an example of like, now with the think about it, like the thing with think about it is even if I can't get them across the line, I want to at least like truly understand what held them back from moving forward. Because if I don't do that, like I don't, I've got no plan. I've got no real strategy for how to follow up and get them over the line after the fact. Okay, so you've got to sit there and you've got to get clarity. So I'll show you what I mean. Can you give me a think about it? I don't know, think of a recent person that maybe gave this to you where this happened, and I just want you to be them. Okay, and I'll just go from like, all right, cool, next steps from here, XYZ. Um, I guess, how would you like to proceed from here?

Yeah, look, it all sounds really good. I just, I just have a way go away and have a think about it.

Yeah, okay, hey, that's cool, no problem at all. Um, can I ask, before you, before you go away and, and think about it, like, I guess, what is it that you're, um, hoping to go over in your mind? Like, just to, just to see if I can help.

Yeah, I just want to make sure that I, you know, like, want to actually do this. I just want to, like, go in and, and mull it over, that it's the direction that I want to take.

Okay, so when you say like, I just want to make sure I actually want to do this, like, what do you mean? Oh, you're on mute.

Laura, can you repeat that?

Yeah, what do you mean you want to make sure that like you actually want to do this?

Yeah, like I'm just, you know, weighing up a couple of strategies. You know, this is one, and I just want to make sure that like this is actually the road that I go down, because when I commit, I want to like 100%.

Okay, all right, now pause. I need a quick bit of more context. What are you selling?

Property.

Yeah, okay. And so like, um, is it, is it like maybe they're thinking they might Uh, there's a certain type of property.

Yeah, so we do, um, do you know, like subdivisions? Yeah, people like chop off their backyard, build a house, sell it.

Yeah. Oh, okay, cool. So they're like, do I want to go this property strategy or a different property strategy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's education and mentoring to do that type of strategy.

Okay, so firstly, I would say that like if you're getting that at the end of the call, you haven't effectively like got them to sell you or justify you on why this strategy as opposed to all the other strategies out there. Because if you do that and they sell you on why this strategy and why not these strategies, then like you're not going to get that objection in the first place. They're not sold on the strategy. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And do you like at the end, because they will tell me, like I ask all the questions, I mean, why not just double down on what you're doing at the moment? Like, why look to do something like subdivisions? And they go, oh, because it's not big enough, my— the rent's not covering the mortgage, whatever. Do you ever at the end say, oh, but you know, like earlier on in the call you said—

well, let's, let's, let's go that— let's go that direction, um, then where you were kind of like, I just want to make sure like this is the strategy that I want to do. So from there, right now I've kind of got some uncertainty about like the strategy itself, so I haven't got the buy-in that I need. There's like value here, so I've got to loop back around. Yeah. Okay. Well look, I mean, that's not a problem at all. I mean, I should probably ask then and be real with me because at the end of the day, this is your life, your goals, not mine. You genuinely believe that like if you were to get help implementing a property strategy like this, that you could get to where you want to go, or how do you feel about the strategy itself and and how I've broken that down for you, because really that's the most important part.

Yeah, no, no, yeah, no, it's good, it's good. I just, I just want to, I just want to wait. Um, I think it's really systematic, you know. Michael seems good, like he knows what he's doing, you know, XYZ, XYZ.

Okay, so what's it just What's behind the hesitation then?

It's just how I make decisions.

Yeah, what do you mean?

Sometimes they'll say, oh, I need to— I'm talking to other companies. Like one guy, he's like a tradie and he's like, I need to get 3 quotes. He didn't actually mean quotes.

There's gonna be a few, we're not gonna be able to go over all the scenarios, but like what I want you to make sure that you're comfortable doing is getting to like, okay, what's the actual concern here, and maybe we arrive at like, you know, I mean, in this instance, and maybe it becomes a— now here's the thing, like, people might disagree with me, but with property, it's not an investing $5K, $10K in a personal development course or something like that. Like, it's a, like, it's a commitment, it's a mortgage, it's multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Like, Thank you for saying that.

It's okay that it's not a one-call close. You're going to encounter people that are at different points of the buying process. So it's your job to understand whether at the buying process you might encounter some people who are like, I, we, this is, this is the strategy we want to implement. Now we're just looking for the right person to help us implement it. But you might encounter some people who are like, Julia, there are so many property strategies out there. Like, we're not 100% sure what strategy we want. And so at the end of the day, that's where there's kind of a couple of sales being made. We've got to sell them on the strategy itself. Then we've got to sell them on getting our help. Because at the end of the day, if you come to me and you end up going, look, we've decided that like, I just don't feel like this subdivision strategy is the right strategy for us. We're going to go a different direction. Okay, good for you. I don't care what you do. I just care that it's right for you. And like, at the end of the day, what you're telling me is I don't feel like this is the right answer for me, and therefore there's no sale to be made, is there? Now, if you are— if the alternate strategy is one where I'm like, oh my God, like there's big red flags or like issues with that, cool, we can have that conversation. But if you're deciding to go with established homes over subdivision, it's like, I can talk to you about that. And if I'm not finding any red flags or anything, it's like, oh sweet, well kudos to you for making a decision. All right. So, um, yeah, does that make sense? And then I've got a few minutes, so I'll have to jump to Phillip in a second. Does that make sense?

Yeah, because there's a real push for a one-call close. And then in the back of my mind, I don't know if it's a limiting belief of my own, I'm like, it makes sense that they need to say, think about it, because they're remortgaging their home and, you know, borrowing.

There's a law involved. And so it doesn't mean that I'm not gonna aim for that. And I— but what I'm at least going to try to do is get the highest level of commitment that I can. So for example, is there anything that needs to happen, like, to know for sure that you can help them? Like, do they need to go through some kind of like pre-approval, or like, I don't know, or is it just they pay the money and off we go? Like, like, I imagine you need to know that they're approved for finance or something like that. Can you guys help them obtain the finance, or they need to obtain that on their own?

Yeah, look, our founder is like, we don't want to be like pushing them to go and get pre-approval with a broker before coming in because it's like a roadblock.

But when you go and like close for a buyer's agent, can you, can you guys help them get the finance or not?

We can, yeah.

Okay, internally, or like you've got a broker that you can connect them with type thing?

Yeah, we've got a broker that we connect them with, but yeah, now owner of the company feels like it's a mindset roadblock.

What is? Oh, yeah, like making sure that my thought is like you can just use it as a strategy. So say I have the conversation and like, like the objection is I just don't know if I'm, I just don't know for sure if this is the strategy that I want to go with. Like I just don't know that. Like I haven't decided that this is the strategy. If I decide on this strategy, and you can ask that, it's like, oh, okay, well, hey, that makes sense. And look, I mean, property is kind of a big deal, do you know what I mean? Like, like, I get it. Um, can I ask, like, suppose you, you know, suppose you kind of mull it over in your mind and you decide, you know what, subdivision, that feels like the right strategy for me. Yeah. How I guess, how do you feel like you might want to proceed from here at that point? Like, do you feel like you might want our help to implement that strategy, or how do you feel? Because now what am I doing? Now I'm basically saying to you, okay, suppose you were bought in on the strategy, which is kind of like not 100% inside my control or whatever, that's kind of your decision. A bit, I can help, but you've got to make that decision. If that decision had been made, would you move forward or would you still be hesitant?

So if it is—

and if they say, oh no, if I, if I, if I end up deciding that I want to go with subdivision, yeah, like I would want your guys' help. So it's like, oh, perfect. Now I know for sure the objection I have is they just haven't decided on the strategy and now I can nurture them and and just help them to come to a place where they either decide to go this route and then get our help, or maybe they pick a different property strategy. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So you just want to make sure that if you are booking a follow-up, they've got like certainty and confidence in us as a provider and then get like—

like, is the concern just you don't show on the strategy, or is the concern with us? Like, like, if you knew that you wanted to do that, like, do you feel like you would? Want our help to implement that strategy, or do you feel like you might still feel a little bit, like, a little bit uncertain about even just like getting our help? And then if they're like, oh, well, yeah, I mean, that is definitely something I'd want to think more about as well. And it's like, ah, okay, so it's not just the strategy, they've got other concerns. And I can go, okay, well, hey, I appreciate you being open and honest with me. Can I ask, like, like, what's, you know, what's behind that? Oh, well, you know, I mean, I only came across you guys recently and this and that, and now you're like, okay, cool. Now I understand what I need to do to move this person closer to a sale. So the lesson here, the big takeaway for everybody here is like, don't freak out. Just be real cool, calm, collected, and just get really curious about like, like what's kind of holding this person back? Because the fact that they don't show up for the follow-up call kind of tells me that now there's some resistance. They don't necessarily feel like you're on their team and like, all right, look, cool, what I can do if it would help, we can reconnect. I've got a couple resources that I think based on what you've said, you know, you're unclear on, I can share with you. And then, you know, I've got something else I can grab, we can go over that together. And hey, look, if you feel like you want to take some time to just kind of settle on a strategy, like, cool, totally cool. And if at the end of the day we talk another time, another 2 times, and you end up deciding this isn't the strategy for you, or you don't even want our help specifically, like, hey, that's cool. Like, at the end of the day, I just want to— I, I'm really just here to help. And if they feel that genuinely, they'll show up to every follow-up call.

Yeah, I probably just want some people to tell me because I'm following up with them and they're like not getting back to me.

Yeah, but just give them the opportunity, you know. Hey, can I ask, like— and, and, you know, you can be real with me. Like, I'm here to help. I'm not here to just be like a squeaky door, you know, like, would it help you if I continue to sort of provide resources, just touch base here and there to answer any questions that you have? Or, I don't know, do you feel like this isn't— this just isn't something that, like, you ever really want to do? And it's cool if that's the case. Like, I mean, I'm here to help. And just give them a safe space to be honest with you. The only reason they wouldn't be is they don't feel safe to.

Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

All right, cool.

I'll have time for Philip and then I'm gonna run, guys.

Um, thank you.

All good.

Philip, how can I help?

Yeah, um, I mean, honestly, like, the Julia, a lot of the stuff she was saying was kind of very similar to my question, but, um, yeah, just maybe to refine it a little bit more. So I'm, uh, in home remodeling sales. Uh, a lot of the leads tend to be, uh, we get them through door knockers. So people have like deferred maintenance on their house, like roofs and painting. And, uh, so the conversation that I have with them, a lot of times it's the first time that they're like really aware of the issue. And like price, prices are like usually $20,000 to $40,000 US to fix whatever the thing is. Um, I'll go through my process and, uh, a lot of times at the end I'll get a lot of like, yeah, we, like, I'll ask them like, how do you feel about the company? How do you feel about our process? You know, how do you feel? And like, I'll get a lot of positivity and like specifics. And then like, you know, I just need to think, like, I need to think about it or mull it over. Or like, I just left an appointment where they were like, yeah, everything feels good for X, Y, and Z reason. But like, they'll, they'll say like, I'm feeling like a lot of, I guess, like momentum from just maybe the way that I'm holding the conversation. And they're like, we just want to get out of the bubble of like this, just to make sure this is the right decision. And—

Okay, so I mean, that language is interesting. Obviously I'm not there, but like, what do you feel might be happening? What do you feel like you might be causing potentially if they're saying things like, you know, I feel like we've got a lot of momentum, I just kind of want to get out of this bubble. What might be— how might they be feeling?

Yeah, well, like, like, like I'm, I'm, uh, I'm taking them, like, I'm like taking them a certain direction they don't know, they don't feel like it's their direction.

Like, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So then I would start with that because like at the end of the day, like, like uncertainty and discomfort, like it creates resistance. And so Sometimes you might be like kind of leading someone in a direction and, and they can feel like uncomfortable. And so maybe a good place to start, depending on how often you hear versions of that, might be to just really neutralize it and slow down towards the end. Because really what I want to do is make sure that I keep them in a place of feeling like good, comfortable, etc., and I don't trigger any, any fear. Because once I start to trigger fear, then that's when we'll get the resistance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, okay. And a lot of that is like binary questions. So rather than a like, cool, so next step from here is this, does that, does that sound good? Or whatever. Like, that's just one example. Notice how I've just given one direction. Like they feel a bit trapped to be like, oh no, it doesn't sound good. Whereas like just a simple act of being like, you know, does that feel like— does that sound good? Or where do you guys sort of feel like you might want to go from here? That alone just creates a much safer space. I don't know if you're doing that, but just— I always go with the little binaries because at the end of the day, whatever objection is there is there anyway. I just want them to feel comfortable and safe to give it to me so I can deal with it. Okay, and if you're sensing that there's any like kind of nerves or you're sensing a little bit that maybe they want kind of out, just really slow it down. Like, right, like, um, you know, I'm here to help, you know. If you guys— if they're saying they want to take some time, hey, like, if you guys want to take some time, no problem at all. Like, you're welcome to do this. At the end of the day, like, it's your house, it's your money, not mine, right? I'm just— I'm just here to help. Um, you know, I guess before I go So I'm like, I'm selling the exit, you know, I just, before I go, before you guys go away, kind of take the time, like, like, what is it that, you know, I suppose you sort of feel like you might want to go over in your mind or whatever it is, you know what I mean? Like, sell the exit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And like, you're trying to slow it down, like, like, yeah, hey, no big deal. Cool. Yeah. Also, yeah, no problem at all. You're welcome to do that. And then I'm assumptive with it. Like, as in, before you go away and kind of think it over, like, I'm assuming you're gonna go do that.

Yeah, yeah.

Before you go away, like, like, can I ask, like, what is it you sort of want to go over in your mind? Like, right, just sell the exit, make them feel comfortable, and then I'm more likely to get the actual concern. And cool, let's just, let's just talk it through. The whole time, like, I'm empathizing and stuff and being like, yeah, hey, I get it. 'You know, we're not, we're not talking to, you know, deciding on a small or a large like Starbucks coffee, you know what I mean? We're talking about like replacing your roof. Yeah, it's a big deal. I get it, I get it, you know, like, right?' And they're like, 'Oh, okay, yeah, cool, cool, cool.' Like, so just, I think it's just putting people at ease at the end because like, you know, $40K, like, it's not a small amount of money to freaking 90% of people. And so just, just remember that and then go in from a place of like just making them more comfortable with that. And then the chances of them just deciding that they want to go with you because you make them comfortable is pretty high.

Yeah, yeah.

And then like, does that help?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then if you're getting like specific, like, yeah, and then, you know, we were just thinking about such and such, like, would you just address whatever the thing is that they said.

An example of what they might say: we were thinking about such and such, like insert something.

Yeah, you know, so I just wanna like— this all feels really good, you know, I just really want to make sure that you guys have, um, I, I just, you know, I want to see your track record, like things that you've done like in the area. If, if, you know, I mean, that didn't take some time to look at your reviews and stuff like that, you know, like that's really—

so, well, something with that, like I can obviously like probe into that or clarifying that, but like if that's legit and they just don't freaking know who we are, like to me that's just an upstream And it comes back to feedback I gave earlier where it's like, if I'm having a sales conversation and I'm pitching $40K to somebody who's never— who knows nothing about us, like, that's stupid. Like, like, you know what I mean? That's stupid because it doesn't have to be that way.

Yeah.

It's like, all right, how do I— or how can us as a, like, a company, how can we make sure that they're at least a little bit familiar with us ahead of time so that by the time we're having the actual sales conversation, there's a belief there that we can do what we say we can do. Because if there isn't, like, I mean, personally, I wouldn't engage with you to give you $40 grand if, like, I couldn't even recall the company name or hadn't checked reviews. Like, do you know what I mean? Now, what you can go for is, like, the highest level of commitment. So I can go, oh, for sure. Like, look, I mean, if I was in your shoes, like, I mean, I wouldn't want a company replacing my roof if I didn't know a thing about them, if I wasn't certain they could do what they say we can do. So like, hey, I totally get it. And then I can aim for like a highest level of commitment, like, and that might be like, I don't know, maybe a down payment or maybe a, like an authority to proceed type thing. We get the more information and off the back, we'll reconnect in a few days. And then if off the back of that you decide like, look, you guys aren't the guys for us, hey, no issues. Like we high five, we part ways. Like I'm not going to hold your feet to the fire. But if in a few days from now you've reviewed the material that I've sent across, etc. And you know, that authority to proceed just allows us to pencil in time with our guys because like we kind of book out a fair way in advance. If in a few days from now you've reviewed the material and you go, oh yeah, I still feel good, I actually feel even better, I feel like these are the guys to do the job, then sweet, we've already got your date penciled in and we can proceed. Like, how do you feel about that?

Yeah.

And they're like, oh yeah, that sounds pretty safe to me. I'm going to give them something that feels safe. But there's still a level of commitment. You know, even that is some commitment which will increase the chances that they move forward.

Yeah.

All right. So that was just one example, but you can have a think about some things that you can do to just inch them closer to the sale. So like if I was selling a coaching program, right, highest level of commitment is pay in full, then it's payment plan starting from like, you know, shortest payment plan to longest, right? And then it might be just a deposit. Then it might be credit card details and a scheduled payment. And lastly, it'll just be like a follow-up call, you know. Now, like, very rarely does someone who pays in full on the sales call ever back out. Like, it's very rare. But how often does someone not show up or not buy on a follow-up call? It's pretty freaking high. And it could have been the same guy, had he piffed, right? So it's like, that'd be different for you because obviously a different industry, but you can think about, all right, what are What are some different— what are some creative or different ways I could get someone to feel a little bit like they've made a commitment in order from sort of highest to lowest? And then I just aim to— before I part ways from the person, I just aim to get the highest one that I can because I know that the higher the level of commitment, the greater the chance that they will ultimately move forward.

Cool.

And then so like the— some of the— if this is like very common, like coming up, would you like prior to your appointment, like precede like some testimonials or this kind of stuff?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would be looking at like, okay. And like, as a set and like maybe the company doesn't do it or whatever, but like I would be going, okay, what have we got on hand that I could put together as a bit of a resource pack? Like, you know, and it might be like a, like for me, I don't freaking know anything about roofs and stuff. If you just rocked up and started talking to me about that stuff, I'd feel pretty overwhelmed. So if you were to say like, Hey, Loz, like, yeah, I know I've got you guys in a couple days from now, roof inspection, see what's going on. Um, you know, I don't know if you've got a trade background or something like that, or like how much you know about like roofing and stuff like that. And I'm gonna be like, I don't know anything. It's like, okay, no big deal. That's the case for most people I meet with. Um, look, what, what other clients have told me have been helpful, has been helpful in the past, and we've got like a, like a really little resource pack that, that just kind of brings people up to speed and I guess some of the most common XYZs and this and that. And that way when we meet, like, like, you know, it's just going to be a, you know, more productive, more enjoyable conversation. Like, it's, it's nothing too boring. Like, would it be helpful if I got that little resource pack across to you? Like, it's probably gonna take you 5 minutes to go through or something like that. Like, I'd be like, oh yeah, that'd be, that'd be sweet. Yeah, thanks. Okay, and if I get that across to you, you know, you feel like, you know, it'd be impossible for you to put 5 minutes aside, have a flick through before You know, before I knock on your door on Thursday, are you sweet to do that? No, no, I can do that. Like that, something like that, you know, just come up with something.

Cool.

Right. And just test it. But I always come from how do I like, I don't want to be like, here's some testimonials, watch them. So, you know, we do what we can do, what we say we can do. Think about how do I take care of those objections that they might have, right? But from a place of the thing I'm giving them is actually of value. Like I'm going to get value out of it. At the same time it's appeasing that part of my mind that's asking, are these guys legit? Cool. All right. Okay, I gotta run, guys. Was that helpful? Everyone got something? Awesome. Um, Todd, you can obviously jump back again or jump on another call, get the other one reviewed, but I just didn't get back to you today. All our hands up. Um, but yeah, hopefully I see some familiar faces again next call next week.

Yes. All right, see you guys.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.