Successful Sales Recruitment

Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Cobbies. Today's podcast is about like recruitment, placement, training, how to be successful when you have a sales rep placed into your business, whether it's internal or external. And also how to vet offers as a closer.

And how to finish each other's sentences.

Yeah, exactly. Do the intro. If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode you listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and review. Put that coffee down. All right. Yeah. So today we're talking about, I guess like recruitment, placement and then like how to vet offers as a closer. I think we should talk about from the perspective of the closer first because a lot of our, a lot of our listeners are closers. Some are business owners just looking for some sales savagery for their own internal sales crew. But yeah, yeah. So how do you, how do you vet offers? See a very exclusive deck of cards from a very old Jerry's Nuggets? Look them up, Google them.

Well, they're not, you know, 1980s from France, but they'll do.

They're not. They're actually from a, A no longer in business. Very, very old casino. Interesting. Okay. Very rare deck of cards. They only got rare. Funny story. Then they got rare cuz David Copperfield bought. They're such good cards if you feel the stock. When they went out of business. David Copperfield bought all the cards. If he bought like 17,000 decks and that, and this is what he uses. There you go.

That'll race the show. Exactly.

He just dogecoined it.

He just did the meme cards. Right. Anyway, onto something productive. Thank you for listening. Recruitment. Where were we at?

Yeah. How do you vet offers? And like I think why a lot of people are placed into offers that probably aren't worth being placed into or why they as commissionally sales reps. Why they fall into the trap of like I guess not believing the hype. Because like I think people, a lot of people just see the good in their business. They don't see the bad. And sometimes they judge themselves.

Perfect.

Yeah. I was obviously fantastic. Yeah. But, but like if you only, you know, like it's. This is a classic example. We had someone come to us and they're like, we did half a million last month from just organic. Right?

Yeah.

And we were like okay, but we're like, we actually said like, that's not necessarily a good thing. Like we were like. Because if you did that much from just organic. Right. But it was like that was the first time they'd done organic. Like, that's not replicatable. You just busted your pipeline. All you did was get every single bit of low hanging fruit.

Right.

Now we ended up in negotiations with them and then sort of, I did a bit of due diligence and then sort of ended up not, not going forward. But what happened to them? Literally the next month they. Yeah. And they had to let go of the sales staff that they had because they had absolutely no consistency.

Yeah, no, no. And we've also had occasions where they've said they're doing half a million dollars a month, just round figure. But it also turns out that they were covering the ad spend for all of their clients as a marketing company and then charging the ad spend to them, which is.

Yeah, that person actually has a 2 comma club.

Yeah.

Which is when I realized how farcical that little thing was. Yeah. Not that I think there's anything wrong with the 2 comma club, but it's, it's not easily manipulated. Not necessarily a representation of how successful a business is, let's just put it that way.

Yeah.

But yeah, like this, this guy, he was doing probably 30,000amonth of actual revenue.

Yeah.

And then he was doing like another a hundred thousand a month of ad spend from his clients, which qualifies for which because it went through his amex, he got heaps of points. So well played. Definitely a good way to do. But like he got a 2 comma club because he's a millionaire anyway. But so that guy comes to you and it's like, look how much money I'm making. Because we were like, yeah, we try and stick to businesses that are doing at least 100k a month. And he was like, yeah, I am. And then after like a five minute cursory chat, we were like, no, you're not, you're not. You're just not doing that revenue. You're. There's that much money flowing through your business, but that's not revenue because it's a direct cost. So if you were to class that as revenue, then your profit margin would be like four.

Let's say if he's got, which case.

You can't afford a sales guy.

If he has say, clients on average paying 10k months in marketing, it's probably more like 4. But yeah, if he has 3 people not pay his bill, he's.

Yeah.

Think about what a terrible risk.

Yeah, it's a big risk, but it's a big reward at the end of the day because you can. You're basically spending other people's money. Right. So it is a bunch of ways to do it. But anyway, it's like, yeah, it's, it's. It's a really interesting thing. So it's like a lot of closers just don't have, like, I guess the business acumen or just the experience to be able to actually ask all these questions and just dig past the surface. Like, there's one guy that's been trying to get us to do their sales for eight months.

Yeah.

And it's because we can't figure out their business that we haven't said yes. Everything they've said looks phenomenal, but it's very confusing business model. And like, I won't say yes unless I understand it.

Well. I won't say yes unless we would buy it.

Yeah.

Assuming we had the need. Right. Obviously not going to buy a fitness coaching course because I need that for.

Yeah. Because we're fat.

Yeah. So, you know, and like, why would I buy it?

Right.

Is this. I'm never going to implement it, so to be throwing money down the drain. But if I was in fitness, would I buy it? If the answer is yeah, it's like, okay, we'll sell.

Yeah, sweet. It's also. So I think that's one thing is like, being able to dig deep into the numbers, which I think, like, is something that needs to be taught by recruitment and placement agencies.

Doesn't exist.

Yeah. I mean, it might do, but we just don't know about it. But I think, like, from what I've seen, like, because it's very easy for a business owner to kind of bamboozle somebody. And if your sole aim is. Is just to place a lot of people right, then you're going to say yes to pretty much every business that comes your way.

Exactly.

Who can afford it.

Yeah.

Right. And then you're going to put people in there and especially if that person has to pay for training in order to be placed. That seems like a really, really dangerous cocktail of like, I can make a lot of money on both sides of this deal.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like when a real estate agent on both sides of the deal, they have to declare themselves on both sides of the deal. I. I don't. Because there's no regulation in this industry. They don't have to declare being on both sides of the Deal.

Yeah.

And so you end up like the person, the two people in the middle, which is the account holder and the salesperson are essentially being like commoditized and thrown into this ring together of when one, the salesperson might not be ready. But because they've paid money, there's an obligation on behalf of that, of that, of that trainer to then place them. Right. And then once the people have paid like there's then an obligation to then put a salesperson into a business of where there might not be a good. Which is essentially why we started the done for you.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean now we're sort of moving into other realms. But like phase two. Yeah, phase two commences. But like it, it seems like a really, there's a real dangerous precedent being set to the moment that I think like seven figure closers and all this bull, man. Like there's so much out there when it comes to like the efficacy of salespeople. And I don't know of anyone or any organization that's genuinely testing people to see if they're any good. Yeah, like, like testing as in listening to multiple core reviews.

You have to be at this level.

Giving you an objective standard that's not how much they've sold. Right. I've used a recruitment company before. I won't say their name. It was, we got guaranteed people who had all sold apparently over $1 million in coaching, which at the time, because I was selling like sounded good. We were selling like $600 products. So we're like, man, if you're selling, we just didn't even think of the fact that that's $25,000 business coaching packages, which is like what, 40 a year.

Yeah.

And just like a couple of months. It's terrible.

I would not believe based on the quality that they ever achieve that.

Well, there's no time period.

First of all, could, could have taken them 10 years.

There was no time period set for that. It wasn't in a 12 month period. It was just these people have sold a million dollars worth of coaching and consulting. Yeah.

It had to have been because they'd all had under 12 months experience. So.

Yeah. But like then you look back at it, you're like, man, like Marco sells a million dollars every month.

Yeah.

Like if these guys are doing this over a year long period, that means they're 1/12 as good. Yeah, potentially.

Yeah.

Because if you're selling 30, 25, $30,000 pack, like if you were to come to me and say this guy sold a million dollars worth of $1,000 packages in the last 12 months. I'd be like savage.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well played, sir. That is a very, very effective salesperson. Maybe not really good, but really effective. And there are differences.

30,000. That's a terrible salesperson.

Terrible. Absolutely terrible. Yeah. If you, if you sell thirty thousand dollar packages and you only sold a million dollars worth of that package in a year, you stink in sales. Or you had no opportunity.

Yeah, one or the other.

Yeah.

I mean, combination of both usually, right?

Because you should have got more than that, man. Like I did, I saw. I mean I sold for barry for what, five months if that. I made four and a half. Yeah. I made 88, 24 thousand dollar sales.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know what that is in terms of money.

No, borderline.

That was my ticket expense. That was my first high ticket account.

Yeah. And like the regulations, it's so you can get away with saying things like replace your 9 to 5 income within.

20 days or my favorite at the moment. And I know this is going to directly piss people off, but it was just like saying that you do sales for people like, oh, that rides me, man.

Yeah, you just like you're piggybacking off someone else's success utilizing their name.

And if it's not even like if I was going to say like we do the sales for Bradley. So those of you who don't know. But if I didn't, it'd be like me doing an ad go, I do sales for people who do sales like Bradley. Yeah, it's. I just, I don't know, I just, I don't like selling dreams.

It's verbal manipulation.

Yeah. I don't like selling dreams. Right. And if I were ever to start a recruitment replacement agency, right. I would not sell the dream because like I think that's a good idea. We should seriously consider it might fit.

Into like phase two. Phase two?

Phase two. Yeah. Like, but I would just. I just don't want to sell dreams is gonna be a rant episode. I don't want to sell dreams. I don't want to commoditize salespeople. And I like, I want to give like business owners at different levels, like expectations and like actually tell them like you like, you can't do this like, because. So if I was gonna do it, I would hire someone specifically who was a well being director and he was just there for the well being who had complete oversight over every single account that was taken on. They had to vet them to make sure they were due. Someone who was really experienced by the name, I don't know, like, like a Sean, Like a Sean Ray type person. Right. So we'd speak to him. We don't. Not him specifically, but someone like that. Someone with a lot of experience.

Sean, if you're out there.

Yeah. Hit us up in the DMs if you're a Sean Ray like person. So yeah, just someone. Yeah. So much like a well being director. Right. Someone who's here to look after the sales reps and to make sure that like there's a level of oversight of where like the salespeople can't just go banana sandwich and sell everybody into everything. Which the sales guys are going to do. Right. Which I think they should be doing. And that's fine. And then from there it's about like. Well, no, no, no, like that, that doesn't pass muster. Like we need to make sure that there's a, there's a. You know. But again, I could have some mitigation strategies in order to mitigate that even being a problem in the first place.

Yeah, yeah. I mean it really comes down to the, the product selection as in what clients you take on to recruit out to.

Yeah, yeah. But I just really, I hate the like sales is going into a real biz op phase at the moment.

Yeah.

And I think it's like an evolution of every single industry.

Well, it is in the coaching aspect anyway.

Yeah, yeah. Like, because it's a really, it's a really fast growth industry and I think that there is a lot of money to be made and I, I've made it like I'm fully like this table was eight grand. Think three years ago I could afford this table. No. Because I didn't have $8,000 in my bank account.

So.

So it's like, I think there's a lot of money to be made in a relatively short period of time. But like you have to one, be very good at it because it's a meritocracy. So if you're not very good at it, you have to have a mechanism.

To get very good meritocracy. For the people who probably have never heard that word before.

Meritocracy is a system in where only the best. It's a. Sports. Sports is a meritocracy. Yeah. There is no, like, there is no discrimination based on anything but how good you are at something.

Yeah.

Like that's what a meritocracy is because no one cares. Like if you're black, Asian, Latin, trans. It doesn't matter if you're good at sales. People Want you in your organization. Like that's just, that's just the way it is. At least with every organization that I've come into contact with, I'm sure there are, there's probably fucking coaching for white supremacists out there somewhere. Right. But like we haven't dealt with them. So. So like it's, it's just a meritocracy. Right. So the cream will rise. Now if you're really good at that. The thing about that is that if you're not good at it, like you won't get paid any.

Yeah.

Like you will not make a dime if you're not good at this. There is, you cannot just walk into a business and just start selling. Like there's not any, there's not many order taking opportunities out there where you can be at sales and actually, and actually make a living. Yeah.

I mean like working in like an Optus or a Verizon or something like that where people have made up their mind. They've come in saying, I want this phone. They're coming to. You say, what plan can you give me? Oh, these are your options. Pick one. Right.

Yeah, that's. Yeah. I'm talking about more in the realms that we're talking about. Even like an insurance. Right. There's.

Yeah.

Because you know, people are shopping around. So if you can sell, you'll win. Same as in like real estate. If you can sell, you'll win. If you can be the guy that can get people to commit to you, then you'll get the listing. And then selling the house is the easy part.

Absolutely.

Selling the house is the order taking, getting the listing is the sales. Which is why like Ryan Sirhant, who's on the podcast we're filming tomorrow.

Yes.

Is, is a great, very, very successful person because he's excellent at sales. He's very good at selling himself. It's a, it's a real complicated one. Like there's just, there is no easy way to do it. But if you are good at it, you make a lot of money. But it is a process driven activity that given the right systems and coaching, most people can become good at it.

They can. Yeah.

Like that. And I think like, you know, there's a lot of proof in that. Like Ryan, Ryan for example, he's really come up very, very quickly, very quick. You know, and there's a lot of guys who are getting paid really, really good commissions and doing really, really good work. There's guys that are in our groups like Closing Code and NEPQ and all that kind of stuff that have gone from making one sale a week to making eight sales a week just because of a better sales script structure and a couple weeks of training. Like it really, it really can be like that. But you're not going to walk in off the street having no experience, go into a role, do a six week course and then be a savage. It's not going to happen.

And speaking of Ryan, like stay where I've been doing weekly interviews with him mapping out his entire journey from start to finish on how he can be getting to a million dollar a year closer from zero experience appointment setting. And we're going to put that together in like a four part series for a mini documentary over the next six months. So that's, that's going to be really exciting and it's basically just going to be instructions on exactly what he did to reach that so it can be replicatable for everyone. So I'm looking forward to finalizing that. It's going to be a lot of fun. Very good resource.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's just I think like all this stuff, it drives a lot of people but into the industry. But I think what it really does as well as the big disservice is the fact that people become very entitled and very disenfranchised very quickly. Like people just don't realize like you cannot walk onto like the Lakers and go put me in the game. Like it, it just doesn't work. And like the level of entitlement that some people come in with is shocking. And I, I want 25 comms in a 5k a month retainer. It's like yeah, you, are you on drugs? Like what are you, what are you saying? Yeah, like you suck at your job.

Yeah, it's like okay, how about I'll give you 50 because you're not going to close the deal anyway. Right?

How about, how about you every single time you don't close someone and I'll give you that deal. Oh no, I don't want that.

Well done.

I would take it. Yeah, I would, I would take it.

I think as well. Like just to further your point with like the rapid growth of this particular industry, coaching and consulting, it's watering down the quality of salespeople because with, as the industry grows, the need to service that growth so people get into more sales training and stuff like that at a poor level just to push people through, to be able to recruit out as needed, you know, and that leads to a, a normal like attenuation of skill set to service that need. And that's why we find people that are always terrible at their job.

Yeah.

Time takes time.

You know, it does. And I think that's why, like, with this internship that we're running, like, we've negotiated with a couple of our accounts to be able to give them sales calls. Because I think one of the key things that I found in the industry is there's a huge lack of, like, a lot of people want to get better, but they don't necessarily have a lot of opportunity. And if you look at, like, you need opportunity. If you look at, like, surfing as an example. Right. Surfing can be related back to sales really, really well. Because, like, every time you catch a.

Wave makes you work.

You want to. You want to be able to utilize that. Because you can only catch maybe 10 waves in a session, and you can only surf a few times a week. Right. At best. But, like, if you could go onto a wave machine and you could do 50, 60 waves a day in an hour instead of having to paddle back out and wait. Right. You would get good at surfing very quickly.

And you can't get good on the practice board sitting on the stand before you. You have to get into the waves to get good.

Exactly. And the cool thing about. About sales is that, like, role plays are almost identical to the real.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, they really are. Like, they. There's not much difference.

The only difference that I found for guys that are consistently doing the role players than they get onto the live sales calls is the fear of it when it's something there. So, like, they can take all that experience into the live sales call, but if they still have that fear and hesitation that they wouldn't have had in that role play, it's the one thing that needs to be overcome when they get that opportunity. We've seen, like, you know, Ryan had the same thing. He figured out how to get over it. Like a lot of our guys, it's.

Just after like, 20 or 30 calls, you should sort of think dissipates quick. Remember the first time I did a personal training session, I was nervous.

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I remember the first time I did a sales call myself. Yeah.

Literally.

Please don't enter. Please don't actually. Hey, how you going? This is James from.

Yeah. Remember that? You were sitting next to me. You actually shoot yourself.

Yeah. Physically.

Yeah.

And I appreciate you cleaning it up. That was really thoughtful.

Yeah, well, you know, you do what.

You got to do to do.

But yeah, like, it's just. It's a rapidly growing industry that's Constantly evolving. And sales is, you know, one in every eight positions is a sales position. So there's tremendous growth opportunity within it because the one thing that's always going to be needed is sales.

Yeah, no, that actually reminds me. I think we had a. You ran a. Like some sort of course and you asked me to get up and do a live sales call in front of everyone. And I'd done sales calls prior to that with zero structure. Just me picking up the phone froze. I was like, I have no idea what to do. It just like that happens. Right? So that's why the role plays are so critical to avoid situations like that. But. But you go it. You get over it, just spit it out. And then you never have the same fear again. It's just like, oh, yeah, I did that.

Well, the thing about sales is that you're just talking to people. So, like, whether it's people you know or people you don't, it really doesn't make too much of a difference.

The point is that fear, like, if you're afraid to get on the phone, like, you just get rid of it by doing it. You know, man up, get on the phone, make it happen, get good at it.

Exactly, exactly. So what are some things. Now I think we've talked about a few things on what are some things on the other side of that coin? So, like. Well, I guess, like, yeah, some things that closers. There's some little sneaky things that closers do to make themselves sound better. The first is offers made. Yeah, that's the first metric that you. So if you're interviewing salespeople. Right. Then like a lot of salespeople and I don't know, I think it might have been traffic and funnels that started this little thing. But yeah, who knows? Anyway, I know of a couple of salespeople in particular that love this metric. So basically, what offers made is, which is. It's really stupid, is you only count.

Way to justify yourself for the reason why you didn't get them by not offering in the first place. It's basically a way to justify why you couldn't. Objection. Handle them into getting a sale by saying simply, I didn't offer them because they weren't a right fit. Like bull. Make them a right fit, pitch them, find the pain point.

Yeah, well, no, the real thing is, like, there are some instances where you can do that, but you have to have a time frame. So like one of our bigger. The guy. One of the guys that I coach, we coach a bunch of people in their business. They have seven minutes.

Yeah.

So they have seven minutes. Decide whether they're a no offer and if it goes outside of seven, you can't no offer them. Because you should be able to figure out the only metric that is suitable for a no offer is they do not benefit from your product or service.

Yeah.

That's. It has nothing to do with money.

Yeah.

Nothing to do with time. Partner. If their partner's in the call. Right. This is another great question to ask sales people. If you show up to a second call and you said they wanted the partner on the call and the partner isn't on the call, what do you do? If they say reschedule the call, don't hire them because that's a terrible attitude to have.

I would reschedule that call. If you got to the point where you've pitched them and they won't make a decision and you're going to follow up.

Well, that's a follow up, right?

Yeah, but that, that seven minute, that shouldn't exist if they've been triaged.

I agree.

Yeah, yeah. Well, no, yeah.

Unless like there's, there's obviously someone else triage. There's rare circumstances. But in general, like, if someone like one of the things that really got me riled up about this metric was I was listening to a sales call and it was about 45 minutes in, the guy said he didn't respond have any money. So he no offered him.

Yeah.

And I was like, well, hang on a second, dude, that's not an offer. That's, that's you not attempting to overcome a money objection because like, oh, he's not willing to invest in himself. It's like, well, right now, but why don't you just try and sell the guy? Like that's the literally the job. And so that to me was where I was like cracked it and was like, no, this isn't the thing. I refuse to have this in my business. And offers made is like, you hear guys go, I converted 40% or 50% of offers made. And they'll say, I converted 50%. And then you have to ask them, is that as offers made or of total calls that show up in the diary? Yeah, right. And if they go of offers made, you go, well, it's not a real metric, man, because that's just you converting only people, 40% of people that you.

Chose to pitch that you deemed worthy.

Of, that you deemed a sale. So you should really be converting at 90% of offers made. Right. If you're going, you know, if you're going on those metrics because like I just pitch anybody that can benefit from the product or service. If they can buy now, great. If I have to pipeline, that's great too. And the thing about no offering is you will never sell that person because you've now basically insulted them. Yeah, right. By saying the worst example I ever saw of this was when we first started selling for Vince and he sent me a recording of their current sales guy who is a guy named Richard. Right. And this couple, they were like fully going to do it like and they just wanted like 72 hours to think about it. And he just offered him, he just said, well we only want to work with action takers so at this stage I'm going to reverse the offer. And I was like, what? So now you just never speak to that person again. Stupid. Who's clear. I hear that all the time. And what that person's clearly a target market for you. They clearly can do it. Maybe they don't buy today, but you know, that's what a pipeline is called. And that like that pipelining is so important for you having consistent sales. It's not even funny.

And then another one also, if you're converting at 40 to 50% of offers made, you have no right being a sales coach. Let's just put that out there now.

Depends on the offer. But yeah, it depends on the offer.

Does it?

Yeah, I mean I have offers made. Again, there are so many metrics but like I hate the metric offers made in general because it takes out your, the business's ability to make any actual decisions based off what's happening. Because you're leaving it in the state of a highly emotional person which is a salespeople. Salespeople are very emotional. Right. And then you're getting them to give you a lead quality metric that's not reliable because it relies on them having to fail to. Well, it relies on them having such a high level of self awareness that they can go, I offered that person, I should have sold them. And I didn't.

Yeah, yeah.

Instead of going like nah, the leads, bro. Like you know, I mean like which is why a triage is so good. Because it's totally unemotional. Because no one cares about the pass through rate.

Yes.

If I let them through, sweet. If I don't, that's fine. And we can have a decision around do we let them through or do we don't how much opportunity have, how strict are we going to be? We can actually make some decisions on the business based on the lead quality.

Yeah. So like for the business. A couple things that you also want to look at, right. Is ask the potential person what is your opinions on follow up and how do you create a pipeline.

Yeah, that's another. That's a really, really good one.

What do you, what are your referral?

If I was going to be a placement agency, I would train all of my sales staff on referrals and follow ups and I would have a KPI of which they have to hit. That's just me.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. It's quite interesting, isn't it? You should maybe look at doing that.

We should, yeah. So follow up is key. Like the guys who don't follow up don't make any money.

Yeah. And also like you're burning leaves. Right. So you need to understand what is the process that they have for referrals, what is the process they have for re engagement, what is the process that they have for genuine follow ups and how do they go about it. You'd also ask how many sales have you made in the past month from fall, what was your commission last month? Selling what? How much we getting paid? Like really go into the numbers of what this salesperson saying, because if they come to you with I have a 40% close rate, it's like, okay, what were you getting paid like per sale? A thousand dollars. How many sales did you make? This many. It's like, oh, so you're converting at 40%, you only made six grand. It's like how many opportunities you have? Used to get like 30 leads a month. Hold on, something doesn't add up there. Sorry, 30 leads a week, something doesn't add up there. Those numbers don't work out. So 40% close rate.

Yeah. There's a lot of. You got to really dive into the numbers and what you want to do is you want to ask numbers, not, not in sequence.

Yeah.

So you don't want to go like what was your leads, what was your show up, what was your this, what were you want to ask them in random order? Because then people find it very hard to then track what makes sense. But if they know the numbers, they know the numbers. It shouldn't make a difference.

Yeah.

Then what you do is. That's why I always do this. I always ask them in random order. Right. And I might even ask them during different parts of the conversation so that they're like, they can't track the coherentness of what I'm asking. And then I'll go like guy the other day, he goes, oh yeah, we have two full time salespeople bringing on a third, they're booked out full time eight days in advance. Which meant like, I was like, okay, so it's like six calls a day per person times two reps, that's 12 a day times five, that's 60 calls. They said they had a 70% show up rate and a one in four close rate. That means, I did the math. They're closing at 1.75. So there's 17.5% close rate from calls booked. They do one cold close.

Yeah.

Right. So I was like, okay, if it's. I know the products, it was $7,000, it'd be a 10% commission. I was like, sweet. I know how much the sales guys are making. Yeah, right. I went, oh, sweet. Like you're bringing a sales guy, how much your sales guy making? And they go about five or six grand a month. I go, then everything you said is just a lie.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was like, it's not possible. It's impossible. It doesn't, doesn't work. Like, you just told me all your numbers and the math makes no sense.

The amount of times I've had that exact conversation with potential clients, they're just like, what do you mean? I was like, you literally tell me everything about your business and I map that out quicker. So either you're wrong with your numbers or you're just lying to make yourself sound better. So what is it?

Yeah, not obviously blunt, but just help me understand here. Yeah, so it's like if you understand what you're looking for when you're talking to a closer, like things you want to have, like, close rate is very circumstantial to the industry in which they're selling.

Yeah.

Like, I think everyone can have a good close rate. But like, if they come from a biz op, like, if they're doing over 20%, they're doing pretty well. Yeah, right. But if they come from like a coaching coaches offer, they should be closing at 60%. If they're not, there's something wrong. Like, in my opinion, anything. Like, I spoke to a really big coaching company the other day. They coach coaches that coach coaches that coach coaches. Everyone coaches coaches. And they had a 40% close rate and they were really happy with that. And I was like, well, I've done the sales for your direct competitor and we closed five. So I was like, clearly there's a big problem here. You just don't really care. Like, but to me, that's a huge problem. But if you guys are happy with that, go for your boots. I Don't care. Yeah, those guys were. I hated them.

Yeah. So like the other ones that you want to ask is you want to give like a case study of your niche. Right. And say, okay, like this is my niche. What do you perceive to be the major pain points and the main objections that we'd receive? Right. Because that closer is going to have to look at that and be able to understand your client. If they can't do that, they're probably not a good fit. That's really important.

This is an interesting one. This is a very interesting question which I don't know the answer to. If you were recruiting someone into a business, would you make them do the sales in the way that you like or would you allow them to do the sales the way that they like?

First, like to preface that, the other one that I was going to say is you need to ask him who they've learned off. Right. Because that is critical. Right. If they've learned off someone like let's say Grant Cardone, and your niche is.

Like heart centered entrepreneurs. Right. That's not going to.

Right. So I would first ask that to get an understanding. Then I would want them to sell in the way that makes them most confident, provided it makes sense to my business. And you need to, as a business owner, understand the types of sales and what's going to fit. Because you might have a system that works consistently, but that salesperson might not be able to fit into that system. Right. So I would re it. I would say it depends on the past experience and skill set of that salesperson and the past experience and skill set of your company and the results that it's achieved so far. Like if I had a system and I was closing at 90%, I would hire a salesperson that could come in and repeat that exact system.

Yeah, well, unless you're the guy doing the sales.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is a real problem. Yeah. Like if you're the face. Yeah, if you're the face of the business.

Let me rephrase that. If you have sales staff that are closing at 90% that aren't you. Yeah, I would want to. Because like if you're the authority, you are selling in an authoritarian way. Now if you hire some random sales guy to come in, they lose that entire authority. So that process of what got people to buy in the first place is no longer there as a crutch to use. They cannot use that crutch. So close rates will automatically go down based off the fact that you're trying to get them to sell in an authoritarian way. And they have zero authority because they're not the personal camera. They're just a dude. Random dude on the phone who happens to work for you.

This is very true.

Yeah.

It rarely. I would. I won't say never, because I know one case where it worked out very well.

Yeah.

Yeah. It rarely works out unless you're really willing to put a lot of time into somebody.

Yes.

But then if you are a business owner, just so you know, you're going to create your own duplicate.

Yeah.

And that person will destroy you.

Yeah.

Like, most. Like, it's a really good chance. Yeah. If you. If you. If you create your own doppelganger. Right. Like, you better get that guy equity.

Yeah. You're gonna.

Because you've now created your biggest competition ever. You've created you.

Yeah. Who can be recruited by your competition and then decimate you because he's too well at what he does.

Yeah.

I've seen it happen before.

Put him into bondage.

Okay, maybe, maybe not.

Inside joke.

I missed it. That's. I know who you're talking about, but I don't get the bondage reference.

Well, the last. Anyway you can explain to me off camera. Yeah. But anyway, we're going for 35 minutes. Probably long enough now. There we go. That took you a while. Yeah. Jesus. I did not connect the dots there. Yeah, no, you didn't. That's right. We all get there eventually, right?

I was like, is there a story that I've not heard? But it's wordplay.

All right, guys, thanks for all coming. Make sure if you're watching this on YouTube, you, like, subscribe at the notification bell. Give us a comment down below of what you enjoyed about today's podcast. Make sure you slap, like, if you liked it, slap, dislike if you didn't like it. Go and check out the closing code, which is our Facebook group. Go and check out closing code as well, which is our program. 50 Aussie dollar dues a week, get access to 6 role plays, one of them with yours truly. And if you're listening to this online, make sure you subscribe, tell a friend about it, do this kind of stuff.

Also, if you like what we said today about the recruitment stuff and you maybe want to be recruited or you want to hire some salespeople, then we might have some options when phase two commences. You know, just drop a DM or something like that, and we'll potentially not.

Be able to help you.

Who knows?

All right, guys, thanks for your time. Bye. Put that coffee down. Coffees for closers only.

You can explain to me.

Yeah, but anyway, we're going for 35 minutes. Yeah. There we go. That took you a while.

Yeah.

Jesus. I did not connect the dots there. Yeah, no, you didn't. That's right. We all get there eventually, right?

I was like, is there a story that I've not heard? But it's wordplay.

All right, guys, thanks for all coming. Make sure if you're watching this on YouTube, you, like, subscribe. Hit the notification bell. Give us a comment down below of what you enjoyed about today's podcast. Make sure you slap like if you liked it, slap dislike if you didn't like it. Go and check out the closing code, which is our Facebook group. Go and check out closing code as well, which is our program. Fifty Aussie dollar dues a week. Get access to six role plays, one of them with yours truly. And if you're listening to this online, make sure you subscribe, tell a friend about it, do this kind of stuff.

Also, if you like what we said today about the rock recruitment stuff and you maybe want to be recruited or you want to hire some salespeople, then we might have some options when phase two commences. You know, just drop a DM or something like that and we'll potentially might.

Be able to help you.

Who knows?

All right, guys, thanks for your time. Bye. Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.