The biggest scam in sales
Matt Ryder breaks down why most sales dialers fail and what actually works. Peer-to-peer routing matters. Carriers monitor behavior and enforce compliance, and most vendors ignore this entirely.
In this video, I'm going to break down the exact reasons why most dialers don't work. But most of these companies are in it just really for the cold charges. And I'm going to break down why it is so difficult as a sales rep and as a business owner to actually get your leads on the phone. Okay. So I'm going to break this down in its entirety. It'll be. There'll be some technical knowledge in here, but if you're someone who calls leads like this one's for you. Oh my God. So the way that the dialers work is that there are software platforms that leverage different carriers or networks to the use of APIs and other things in order to be able to make phone calls. Now, not all networks and carriers are created equal. And the infrastructure in which the dialer is built on is extremely important. And most of them are built up infrastructure that is not really fit for outbound because there are different types of dialing. So you've got like inbound, you got outbound, you got like B2B, B2C, stuff like that. And most of the dials that are out there are built for, you know, inbound calls or more B2B, low volume stuff. The moment you get into high volume dialing, you end up with a whole bunch of shit.
Right?
Because parallel dialers are going to put you in jail. Like, they're just not the way to go.
All right?
And the entire dialing industry has like just duped a bunch of people into believing stupid, okay? And I was one of those people. So you don't feel bad for yourself. But these businesses, like, you know, wave dial and Alaware and like, all these things that have like parallel dialing and power dialing and like, and all those things is fine. And I have those functions on my dialer. But we don't really allow most people to enable them simply because it's not a good idea. So I'm gonna bring in the breakdown. So first things first. Why does it work when you call on your phone? You ever wondered that? Me too, because I used to get a 2% pickup rate when I was dialing on clothes. And I would get a 30% pickup rate or a 20% pickup rate if I'm dialing on my phone. The reason is because it behaves like a phone, not because of number verification. It's not because it's on AT&T. It's because it behaves like a phone and it has peer to peer routing. So we're going to break down peer to Peer routing, What is that first? Okay, so you might have heard the one T1, something like that, like a T1 line, right? So you got T1 is like a traditional landline system where you actually like, you have really high quality routing. So what I want you to do is I want you to picture an airline. I want you to picture American Airlines and Spirit Airlines, okay? If you're not in America, Spirit is cheap, American's more expensive, premium cheap. Okay? So Spirit Airlines, if you're gonna go to la, to New York, you're gonna go like you're gonna have 10 different stop offs, five different layovers, right? Your luggage is gonna get lost and overall it's gonna be a bad experience, but it's a cheaper, okay. And so with American Airlines, you're gonna go from la, New York, that's it, done, good to go. Your baggage is gonna get there and you're done, right? But you pay a little bit more money. So that's peer to peer, okay, One or the other. Your phone has peer to peer routing, okay. And that's an arrangement with the providers and the carriers and you have to pay for that. Contractual arrangement. Most VoIP companies don't pay for that. Like Twilio, for example, most of the dialers are track, then monitor every single number, okay, that comes into their system. And it's going to track it and it's going to look for like low pickup rates, it's going to look for low talk time, it's going to look for excessive voicemail, it's going to look for things like voicemail drops, it's going to look for things like pattern dialing. So raise your hand if you power dial or auto dial or whatever. And it's dialing once every 15 seconds. Well, that's a pattern. It's pretty easy to pick up. And so they're going to be like, well, I seriously doubt that Grandma is dialing once every 15 seconds. That's an ATDS system. Most, almost all scam call centers use ATDS systems. Also in your marketing, unless it's expressly consented that you are agreed to be audible charges six or nine bucks per month per number. But like our hard costs because we have spam monitoring included and ours is like four bucks a number. But like Airco's hard cost is probably like 10 to 30 cents a number, right? But they're charging six. It's like that's a pretty spicy markup. It's pretty good. Good for them, happy for them. But they're not giving you access to Any of the peer to peer contracts, which is one of the reasons why you get like echoes. You get delays, you get stuff like that, right? Because like you have to have ha servers. There's a whole bunch of things that you have to have in order to make high quality calls and have all the data go with the call. So when your phone receives a call, it's going to score it one to three and ours will score as a one because we have peer to peer routing. So all of the information is getting straight there. The luggage isn't being lost, guys. No luggage lost, which is fantastic. Okay, nice. When you're dialing on like alaware or something or through ghl, you're likely dialing on something on the Twilio network or a different VoIP network. And those people have not bothered to get the peer to peer contracts and to get the extra service because it would hit their profit. So what happens is like not all the data goes with it. And what that means is that your phone will either flag it, block it, or it's just they're not going to pick up the phone. Okay. Or it's going to be crappy quality, et cetera, et cetera. And this at scale is one of the things that causes mass spam flagging because like people don't want to pick up your phone call and when they do, you sound terrible and there's a delay and they hang up on you quickly and that's a behavior that's tracked and spam is flagged. So there's that issue. Okay, Then from there you've got the behavioral issue. Like my phone acts like my phone. So it's got like a good ratio of calls to text. The talk time is usually pretty high. I'm not calling 50 people and talking to most of them for three seconds because I'm getting told to F. Right? What? And so like there's. They're not going to spam flag my number. But it's being under the same scrutiny. It's not like it's different, it's under the same scrutiny. And so like what they're looking for is does your number act like your phone or does it act like a scam call center? And chances are your thing, your business or what you're calling from acts like a scam call center. Okay, so what behaviors are they looking for? You might be asking, right? If you know what behaviors you're looking for. Comment down below. See if you can win the prize.
Right.
There's no prize. But my adoration and undying Fealty. Okay, so what behaviors are they actually looking for? Like, what are the things that are like and who's looking for what? So there are like, say, let's go through the major carriers, Sprint, Verizon and T Mobile, okay, they have different companies like hi, New Star, Orion, tnt. These are companies that are being independently employed by those carriers to protect their customers, which are your leads. And they're trying to protect them from scam call centers. So what they're doing is they've set up behavioral analysis which is going to track, then monitor every single number, okay, that comes into their system. And it's going to track it and it's going to look for like low pickup rates. It's going to look for low talk time. It's going to look for excessive voicemail. It's going to look for things like voicemail drops. It's going to look for things like pattern dialing. So raise your hand if you power dial or auto dial or whatever. And it's dialing once every 15 seconds. Well, that's a pattern. It's pretty easy to pick up. And so they're going to be like, well, I seriously doubt that grandma is dialing once every 15 seconds. That's an ATDS system. Most, almost all scam call centers use ATDS systems. Also, in your marketing, unless it's expressly consented that you are agree to be automatically dialed from an atds. Like, you can't use that anyway. Or at least you can't do cell phones. So have fun figuring out how to filter for that. Children. No. God, please no. And so like, they're going like, okay, if you're on an ATDS and you're pattern dialing, chances are you're a scam. Prove me otherwise. And how you prove otherwise is by like not breaking any other rules and having a high talk time, which means that people are happy to talk to you, which means that they're probably not going to spam flag you, but that's probably not you, let's be honest. So if you're, you're pattern dialing, the other thing is like, is it excessively dialing? So if you're parallel dialing, for example, not only is it on a pattern, but it's extremely high volume. And then you've also got a banner rate to worry about. You're like, matt, I use a parallel dialer. What do you mean abandoned rate? Well, abandoned rate is the thing that the FCC regulates. And if you are parallel dialing and you have any more than a 3% abandoned rate, which means that you hang up on 3% people or more, then the FCC is going to be very angry at you. And also these parallel dialing companies like Wave Dial and Bearworks and all this shit, not saying that they're bad products but they're using it irresponsibly because you should not be using it. If you are scraping leads, you cannot parallel dial them. Unless you have expressed the consent commission that you are going to actually use in atds, you cannot use them. And these businesses that scrap scam on people because they say, well just bang in a parallel dollar and we'll do this for you and this for you. And it's like, because you know it's bullshit and you know that they shouldn't be using it, but you don't say anything because you want their money. And actually because of the cold charge markup that you have and the number markup that you have, it's actually more successful for you financially if it doesn't work, isn't it mate?
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And so like it's just a goddamn scam. Then you have the idiots that do number verification. Number verification is one of the stupidest things that I've ever seen and I thought it was awesome until I figured out that it's a scam, right? The reason why it's a game is because like what carrier are you verifying on? Unless it's all of them. I say to you, sir, right, because what you're gonna do is give me a dashboard that says whether my thing is spam flagged or not, you're gonna say we verified your numbers. It's like on which carrier? Because they don't all play nice together and they all have different companies doing their monitoring. So if you're like verified on AT&T, it does not mean you are verified on T mobile. It doesn't work that way, right? And because they're all have different criteria as to what they're going to allow and what they're going to flag. And even number verification doesn't mean you won't get flagged. It doesn't mean shit. It just means that like they know the business that's dialing from, right? Which means it's just easier to if you break the rules. And so like unless you know the rules, which you probably don't, it's why you're watching this video. Like mate, it's not going to, right? And so you go, what they're doing is they're probably Getting you Metro PCs, it's probably 14 cents a year to monitor on Metro PCs because only broke my have that shit, right? So that's stupid. Okay. The next thing is that like if you just dial like crazy, right? And you use an automated system, like you're just gonna get spam flagged to buggery, okay? And so what you have to do is you have to work within a system that actually makes sense, okay? So what we did is that we automated manual dialing because legally for most people in most systems to be able to dial their leads a decent amount, you know, not obnoxiously, these triple dialing dudes, right? But like, you know where you're dialing leads and you're getting good pickup rates, like 30, 40, 50, 60, 70% contact rates where you're actually speaking to a good chunk of your leads. You have to work within the system. You have to. It's just kind of the way that it works. And the more of this shiny object stuff that you, you have, like, it's not going to work. People are more than happy to pay 50 bucks for a lead that they are never going to get in contact to. And like they don't give a shit about their core charge bill, but they want like a number that's a dollar instead of five. Like, but it's like, yeah, but one works and one doesn't. It's like the ROIS people make no sense. But I guess it's just, you know, just the way that it is, right? It's a funny one. And so in order to make Darling work, you have to have the behavior of an, of a phone. And you can't be automatically dialing everyone. Doesn't mean that you can't dial quickly because we've developed an automated manual dial where a human has to dial the lead, but we automatically queue up a lead journey, right? Which is based upon priority and speed to lead. And I think we probably have the fastest speed to lead in the game, especially for a non illegal trialer. But people on our system have anywhere from 10 seconds to one minute, right? If somebody's online, they're being called basically instantly. But we built that specifically for that. And that's one of the ways that we can get higher pickup rates because they're actually being caught quickly. And then we monitor the behavior of every single number, okay. And then we manipulate the behavior of the numbers to make sure they stay within the thresholds of what these companies want and we're not breaking tons of rules and laws and stuff like that. And then from there we monitor them for spam and we monitor them on, you know, on the major carriers and on the major apps and because they all have different reasons as to why they've spam flagged. And then we warm numbers up with software and then we cool numbers down with software because. Because that's how you have to do it. And so that is why dialing is a damn half the time. Because none of these people that make these dialers have ever called a lead.
Right?
So the dashboards they give you are stupid. And like, it's just an incredibly frustrating experience because it starts off really effective. It's like, yes, it starts off really effective because like they've scrubbed the numbers clean and given you clean numbers. The problem is you can't keep the numbers clean. Whereas I've got people doing $75,000 a day, 200 numbers in our system and only two of them are flagged on one carrier.
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And so like, but that takes a lot of wizarding and a lot of things to do. And that's what allows you to have, you know, 20% plus pickup rates even 10% consistently.
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Like if I call from my phone, some days it's 10, some days it's 20, some days it's 30.
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The highest I've seen in like a sort of week long basis was like 31%, which is a really high pickup rate.
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I think I could pull my mom ten times. I don't know if she's picking up three of them.
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You know, I mean more like more than three, because people are busy.
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But the key is like, you have smart dialing been done the right way on clean numbers and you work within the rules and you don't do stupid things and then you don't bring in dumb things like brute force solutions like mad power dialing and parallel dialing of which you have no business doing because you have no idea how the compliance works and you're just hoping that you don't get busted. You think the FTC is scary when it comes to like advertising? Wait till you see the FTC and the FCC and the TCPA come after you because you've dialed people for 400,000 times with a T line dial and even triple dialing. Anyway guys, I'm out. Bye.
