The CORRECT Way To Setup Outbound Dialling In 2025

Hey guys, my name is Matt. Over the past five or six years, I have run outbound teams for a ton of companies and I've also gone in from anywhere from billion dollar companies all the way down to companies doing $10,000 a month and help them structure sales outbound processes. And in this video, what I'm going to teach you is all the things that are happening in your business right now that you don't know about that are potential massive compliance risk, fines, risks and also taking away from the efficacy of what you're doing. And I'm going to do this specifically for outbound dialing and I'm going to explain to you the tools that are available to you. Things that you're supposed to be doing that you're prob. Like how do we find these things out is through trial and error, but also by going out and doing the research. So I spent the last eight months of my life building a call center. And so I've had to go deep, deep, deep into the compliance world. And I'm going to tell you all the things right now that are happening in your business or most of the things in your outbound department specifically and calling your leads that you may or may not be doing that could be causing you a potential significant risk so that you are now armed with the inferior should be to change that. All right, so if you like this kind of stuff, make sure to subscribe and notification bell all that kind of good stuff. And I will see you after the intro. All right guys, so I have been asked to come in and have a look at the outbound processes, sales processes, businesses all the way from Bradley, Russell Brunson, some of the acquisitions, clients like Gym Launch and nci. I've helped businesses like Clean Health. You know, there's a large number of businesses. A lot of the common faults are very, very the same, like whether you're a small business or a big business. And some of the things that small businesses do well, big businesses don't and vice versa. What I'm going to focus on today is the things that people just don't know that are going to cause you a huge headache if something were to get found out. Now what are the odds of getting found out? I have no idea. It's kind of howling is a priest of string type question where like it just takes someone who's pissed off in order to be able to, you know, just kind of go through the relatively simple process of having you find and then potentially sue you. I'm working with a customer at the moment of mine that before they came on with us, they got $100,000 lawsuit because stripe sends a notification on their behalf to a client, I'd say. Oh, but that's Stripe's thing. Well, no, because it's client communication between you and the client, and Stripe sending that on your behalf. You can turn those things off if you want to. Also, Stripe is a much harder business to sue than you, I would probably assume. And so what, what, what they did, it was basically, it was a customer in Florida. They got sent a hey, your payment failed, where we're going to redebit it type thing. And so what that did is it ticked a bunch of boxes. First of all, is in Florida past 8pm so there you go. There's your first FCC tick, right? Then from there it was soliciting payment and something to do with debt as well, like debt collection. And so it ticked three boxes, which meant the fine was going to be around 150,000. So he sued him for 100,000, basically saying like, hey, I'm going to go through and put all these fines through if you don compensate me. Which is not blackmail. It's actually just like, you know, technically you harass them. You're God damn right. Right. So anyway, they settled for like seven grand because it's just easier that way to settle in lawsuits, which is a shame. But like, that's what those slap suits are for. In the same way that back in the day we used to form like, my back, my back, right? And they're like, I'll settle at a court right now if you give me 100 bucks type stuff.

Right?

So this is happening in today's world and something we need to be aware of and in the digital age and what we're all dealing with is like, you can't hide. If somebody wants to, they can ruin your through just opting into your funnels. That's all they have to do. And then go through a series of things where maybe you haven't ticked every box and you haven't quite understood the wording of what you're supposed to be doing. And you don't have processes in place. They could get your business easily find in the seven figures. It would not be difficult for me to go through almost any business and find seven figures worth of fines within an hour or two. So what I'm gonna do is explain to you some of the things that you can now do in order to mitigate that, whether you're a sales guy doing it for yourself or you're A business owner or no matter what, these are things that you should be aware of. So the first thing is dnc. So DNC is the Do Not Call list, okay? The DNC is it readily available. And everyone who's calling their leads is supposed to be registered for the API. Now, I'm going to talk in American terms. A lot of the rules are very similar in Australia, so I'm just going to go and go over like American. And again, you know, what I say is gobbledygook. I'm an idiot. Don't listen to me. What? This is not like compliance or legal advice. This is just me talking shit, okay? But basically the dnc, the Do Not Call, this is a registry, a national registry that you can go on to where telemarketers can't call you or are not supposed to call you. Now how that works is it works through an API to where you register your phone number there and then from there, like we're supposed to, as telemarketers, like do a scrub of our leads that come in or our databases to make sure we don't call people on the Do Not Call list. Now, Matt, they opted in an OSMO call. Yes. Fantastic. Now, if you are TCPA compliant and in some states, GDPR compliant, which means that you have all the boxes ticked with the right wording, then yes, you can call those leads. Now, there are limits to how much you can call them, okay? But also that tcpa, that ability for you to call them, it lies with the prospect, not with you. So they can at any stage revoke their status of I want to called. They can say that through please don't call me again. You could probably argue that ignoring your calls is probably a way to do it. It would depend on the court case. You know, it's very much at the behest of the prospect. Because what we're trying to do here, what the telcos are trying to do, is limit harassment and people do harass people on. Like that is a thing like, you know, I've been involved in businesses that will call people 10 times in a day. Like that's not okay. You can't do that. It is harassing people, right? And so the Do Not Call, this is a national registry. You have the API. If you're doing opt in leads, okay, then it's free, or I think it's like 22 bucks a year or something like that. Now, at that you have access to the API, it is recommended that you scrub your old leads, okay? Because that tcpa, it doesn't really like last forever, right? You know what I mean? If they send an email or a text or tell somebody and you don't have the proper procedures in place, you're better off just kind of scrubbing leads when they get to a certain age. And you have to be seen to be doing that because if you do get fined, they're going to ask for your procedures around the dnc.

Right?

Now, in my system, we do that for you as a part of it, right? So people come onto our dialer, okay, which is dialer IO. It's all being. The website's being built, but right now it's SDR call center. Then we do that as part of it, right? And then if you're doing cold calling, then really you pay about. I think it's $22,000 a year to have access to that DNC. Because if you're cold calling, you must DNC scrub. It is a requirement. You also have to register with the FTC that you are cold calling people, which you are allowed to do. Okay? I'm not saying that these things aren't allowed to be done, but there are rules and regulations. Like, you're allowed to drive, but you can't drive like an idiot, right? It's the same sort of thing. Okay? The next thing is the Call Reassignment Registry. Now, what is that? I never heard of this. Okay, so you know when like you have a phone number and then like you change phone numbers? Well, if you've opted into something in the past and it's under like Devin's name, and Devin no long longer has that phone and you call them, you're not calling Devin anymore. So now you're doing an unsolicited B2C cold call, which is not allowed, right? And that person's on the DNC list. Now you're triple fucking yourself, okay? Because you're doing an unsolicited B2C cold call to a person do not call list, that's probably 50,000 bucks for the fines, even up to like, getting close to seven figures if they really want to double down, triple down on you and make an example out of you, okay? The Call Reassignment Registry is available to everybody, is a national registry. You are supposed to be doing it. But the mere fact that you are calling leads, it is implied that you have this process in place in your business. So I would ask you, do you have this in place? If you don't, there's a tremendous amount of risk and liability that you're taking, right? Like you can use systems like Air Cool and Close and they're relatively cheap, but they don't do any of this stuff for you, which is fine, right? Or you can use alaware or whatever, but like, it's a tremendous risk because it's one fine a year. For example, like on my system, I don't flag my shit too much in this video, but like one fine a year would like, pay for my system five times. Right? We want to make sure that we're doing this. The National Call Number reassignment Registry, okay? So you have to be scrubbing your list regularly for that, right? And then that way when you're doing your outbound dials and all that kind of stuff, like you're. You're seen to be doing the right thing. The next is a procedure in place for do not call. Now on my system, do not call done. It's. It's just a drop down. It's done, right? If someone asks you not to call them again, you are not allowed to call them again, flat out. You're not allowed to. If they re opt in, okay, and ask to be called, then you can do that. But like, if they say, hey, would you mind not calling me again? And then seven other people call them, that's an escalation of fine. That is astronomical. And all it take takes is that person to screenshot it and submit it to the FCC or FTC website and it's insta fine. Because then what they can do is go, okay, now show us all your core records. They can then do a comparison. They go, hey, you called that person too many times. You called this person too many times. You've done this. Here's $27 million of the fund, right? And you laugh. It's been done before. It's the easiest way to shut a business down because most of you are not doing it. And if you have no procedures in place for these things, and they're like, ignorance is no excuse. If you do not have procedures in place for these things, you are doing the wrong. Okay, Makes sense. So, okay, so the next thing, okay, that we're supposed to be doing is that. And that could potentially cause fines, is we have to have limiters right on the core cadences. Okay? Every state is a little bit different. But you cannot just be calling the living bejesus set of people constantly and expect to not get in trouble. There are limits. Most of them are seven times in seven days or three times in a day is the absolute maximum. Okay? So if you're calling people 10 times in a day, I don't care how much they've asked. Like, if they've opted into 37 different funnels, you can't do that. And a text message is considered an attempt. Right. So text and voicemail and dials are all in the same realm. So if you sort of dial someone five times, text them twice and leave three voicemails, like, you know, I mean, those voicemails will say separate. So two more dollars. So you've got seven attempts plus the text you like, nine attempts. Anything over the three, okay. Is going to be a $10,000 fine per attempt.

Right.

So, and again, you are allowed to contact and call your lead needs. And you know, the rules are a little bit different when you're like doing a booked call.

Right?

That's a bit different. Although there still are communication limits. Like you can't send someone seven reminders in a day. You're not allowed to do that.

Right.

Because they're not a customer. So it still falls under the TCPA rules, which I suggest that you have a look at and sort of get to know each other.

Right.

Again, if your system doesn't allow for these things, then you have to make sure you build it in and that there's an accountability measure and metric and way to audit it. If you can't audit it and you don't know what's going on, then ignorance will not be allowed. Where if you have procedures in place, if you ever do get looked at, they're going to say, show me your procedures and what you do. If you're doing mitigation, but it's like there's human error involved, they're actually going to be pretty cool with that. If you're doing nothing, that's on you and you're going to get hosed.

Right?

Because like you should, as a professional, as someone in business, you should know the limitations and boundaries of the things that you're doing so that you don't break the rules.

Right?

I think that's a fair enough assumption.

Right.

If you don't know what a speed limit is, you shouldn't be allowed to drive. That's a fair concept.

Right.

The next thing is understanding the state. By state regulation, okay? Every single month, the states release the individual days of where telemarketing is not allowed. Right. Certain states allow telemarketing on public holidays. Certain states don't. Like, you have to understand that. And you should have someone in your organization that is actively out there looking for things and then putting mitigation factors in place, like, for Example, every month I go through and look through all the states, right? And then I go, okay, September 12th, you can't call Utah. So in the dialer, in our dialer, in our, our system, we take out Utah. No calling Utah that day. Now, if they've done a book call, that's fine. If they're a client, it's different. Clients don't fall under tcpa, right? They're a little bit different. There's still rules and regulations around it. But if they're an actual paying client, like, they're. It's a little bit different, but there's still regulation. So, like if you're just out bailing a lead magnet or ever, and it's in Utah, it's a no cold day, they just take a screenshot of every single attempt, submit it, boom, done, good to go. That's a problem for you, right? So you have to be aware of that. We also have to be aware of the state limitations based on time. Like Florida, for example, is 8pm Most other states are 9pm, but it kind of fluctuates and rotates. So you have to have something in place to where you're not calling people outside of those times, because you cannot call and solicit anything that you're selling outside of those times. You can't call people at 10pm you can't do it. If you do, it's illegal, right? It's considered harassment. And the whole business can be sort of shut down and massively fined due to these things. So your system or something should limit that. So if you've got people calling EST and then MST and then pst, you have to be able to sort of have the limitations in there to where they can still call people at 8pm or 7:30pm PST, but not then accidentally call people at 10:30pm EST, because that just pisses people off in some. And you know, in some countries, like Australia, it's really hard to do because mobile numbers all have the same phone prefix. So you just have to work within a more confined time space of like 12 to 8, right? Instead of having a much, much bigger time frame that you can call from. So it's just something you have to do. So but you should really be aware of those things and you should make sure that something in your system, like my system, just does it, we pre program it, it can't be altered.

Right?

You just can't call people too many times. You can't call them at the wrong times. It's all set within the tech to Limit that so that you know you're doing everything you can. Obviously someone could force through a manual dial or something like that. But like you have all the things in place to where like you are as a business are doing all the right things, right. Which is important. That needs to be done on the at.

Right.

Because I just don't think that the fines are worth it. Like if you were to make 5 less sales a month, but you didn't get fined, like it's, it's worth it over the course of a year, right. The risk mitigation is definitely worth it. So spam flagging is one of the biggest issues that everybody faces. And everyone's like, why am I getting marked to spam? I'm doing all the right things. Like, well, you're not. You don't know all the right things to do. Also, spam flagging isn't being done because you're breaking rules. That's not what it is. Like, you can call a billion times a day on a phone number, as long as it's the right amount money of, of dials to the right amount of clients, stuff like that. It's just that, like, that will be perceived by the algorithm as being a potential bad actor. Now put yourself in the position of the telco. So you've been charged with putting like this person's phone number on your network. They're paying you and all of a sudden you start getting 30,000 calls a day. I actually had it happen recently. I got a second phone number and that number was obviously on some sort of like spam list or whatever. And the moment I turned it on, it was a call every 40 seconds. Seconds. Every 40 seconds. I got a phone call, I turned it off, called them, was like, hey man, what's going on? They reassigned the number. It's, it's fixed. But like, that's a problem. And Australia has very bad, very huge problems at the moment with that issue because, like the telcos here are a bit behind, right. Which is causing all kinds of issues for people doing outbound dialing. So you're charged with, you know that person. It's going to be your ass on the line if they get a thousand spam calls a day. So what they do is they hire companies in the independent companies, companies like Orion and tns. And these companies are charged with figuring out what to look for to prevent those bad actors. Now, unfortunately, you look exactly like a bad actor. No, you're calling leads, you're doing high volume, you're not warming phone numbers up. Which means that you just get a new phone number and smash it to death. The moment you get it right, I know you've done it. Probably don't have limited in place. You're calling people five or six times a day, right? Guilty. You're probably calling people on weekends. You're not allowed. Probably call people after things. But also you're just doing a very high volume of outbound. Now even if you were in all the restrictions there, you're still doing a really high volume of dialing from probably a relatively small amount of numbers. So who else does that? Scam call centers do that.

Right?

That's why scam call centers would never set up on my system. It's too transparent.

Right.

Like you can see everything. They can see everything. That's why we get such good numbers with high pickup rates and high contact rates and all that kind of stuff.

Right.

And why we're allowed to do certain things because like it's too expensive to set up because call center is set up on crappy systems and they burn them down constantly.

Right.

Because as they get busted so you're, you look like a bad actor. So they're just going, hey, listen to them. It's just not worth, worth it. They don't care about you and why should they? Right? So to them it's not worth having your numbers go through because the likelihood statistically of you being a scam caller is very high because of the behavior of how you're dialing. Even if you were within all the rules, it's. It looks odd, right? Because there are thresholds they have to put in because they have to do it through software. They can't do it any other way. So what they do is they have thresholds, like 50 to say, I'm just going to say it in numbers, I know the numbers. But it's like $100 a day per number. If it goes over $100 a day per number, that's no longer going to look like a standard phone number. Like me using my personal phone to even call leads or to call my parents or call my friends and family. It looks very different. It looks like I am just dialing on an auto dialer non stop. Okay. So they're going to go, that looks dodgy. I don't see that registered with any business in particular because you can go through a registration for that. It's lengthy, it costs some money and you know, not all businesses are going to pass it. And you also have to then transparently go to the FTC and tell them exactly what you're doing, right? But once you do that hunky dory, right? We do it for a lot of our clients so that we don't have to have seven fucking hundred phone numbers in constant rotation, right? So once you do that, it's like you're just marked as spam. Now what happens? The reason why spam flagging, how it works, and the reason why a lot of people get frustrated by it is because like you start up a new number and it's like, yay, we fixed the problem, guys, we got a new dialer and it has 20% pickup rates. And then six weeks later it's back down to shit. It's like, yes, guys, guys, yes, of course. So the first thing that happens is as soon as you hit certain thresholds, they're going to spam flag. The first one to spam flag is always going to be AT AND T. So AT and T is like half the country. So you're going to go from 20 to 10 pickup rates almost immediately, right? The next thing you're going to lose like Sprint, Verizon, T Mobile. Then you're going to go down to like 5% pickup rates. Then it's going to be a trajectory all the way down to one, right? Because you then you only have the carriers that are like nobody's on, right? And you don't want those people anyway. Then what happens? If you continue to just blast through that you get what's on called an FTC flag. The telcos and those like analysis. These companies like TNS and Orion, they alert the FTC saying like, hey, business X has 47 numbers that are just fucking toxic spam flags. And they just keep downloading fuck out of everybody. So they go, okay, cool. The FTC hits a button and then on your end it sounds like it's ringing, but on the customer's end it's not. It just goes straight to voicemail. That's designed to stop scammers and just go straight to voicemail. The other thing they do is that, that they brought in is where you have to hit a touchdown number to connect. And what that does is it prevents power dialing. So power dialing, which is the only really power auto dial, is really only available on most dial. I have like five different ones that I can use on mine. It doesn't really affect me at all. You don't have access to the touchstone when you're power dialing. It's only when the core connects, right? You can't fix it. It's A very, very clever mechanism for them to stop power dialing. People go, oh, but I'm just trying to call my leads. It's like, yes, but like understand the system that you're working within and work within it. Like be smarter, you know what I mean? So what we did is we set up, not only do we register numbers for businesses and all that kind of stuff so they can get much higher pickup rates because you can actually call these companies and get hired, pickup operates and speak to them. You can also get things like branded caller IDs. But also what we did is like a number rotator that makes sure it works in the thresholds and keeps the numbers nice and healthy and fresh and they're not being used too much. That means spending a lot of money. So not only did we have to build a custom rotator that does it at the right times that we want it to do it so the numbers don't get used too much, but also meant we had to spend a lot of money on a lot of numbers. Like, like thousands of numbers, right? Like there's an investment cost there, not only. And then you have to have the text to be able to do it and the people to be able to run the tech and that has to be able to be up, update and all that kind of stuff. And then from there it also looks at things like pattern dialing, right? So if you're dialing, like we're going to dial them, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like that. And there's a particular pattern to it, right. Which a lot of you probably wouldn't have. That's actually more due to like stopping call centers. Because on my system I can pre program when they're dialed because the agents don't really have a choice. Like if your SDRs come, my system, like we just tell them what happens and happens in front of them. But I can set it up for every six hours or whatever, right? So that that's to stop call centers who have more advanced software. So then you have to do like off pattern dialing, right? There's all kinds of stuff. And again, it's because these things are difficult. So most crappy call centers that are doing scraped leads and doing dodgy cold calling are not going to get through to people, which is a good thing, I think.

Right.

You know, it's really important that you have an understanding as to the limitations and what you're working within and have your mitigation measures in place. Because like spam flagging is a huge issue. Like I'm working with A business at the moment. And like their pickup rates are so low they're like less than 1% that they have 30 in house SDRs. They hired three of our guys and our three guys talk to more people, people than what they're 30 do every day. So we're actually building out a system for them so that they can have access to that. They'll probably only need 20 SDRs from the Internet because again, if your contact rates are high, you actually need less leads, less staff, and you can have a much higher ROI just from the simple fact that you're going to talk to an awful lot more people. Which is the main reason why I built this over the last, you know, six or seven years, whatever it's been since like 2019. I've been doing outbound. I've been doing outbound myself for about 12 years before that, just using my phone call elites. And I have persistently and consistently seen the exact same issues. The moment you get into any sort of volume, any like sort of volume at all, you start to hit these limitations because you don't understand what you're dealing with. And none of the systems out there are designed to work within or counteract or mitigate any of these things. None of the systems have any good compliance measures in place. Like my dialer is HIPAA compliant, for example. Like, not many of them are. Like, I think it might actually be the only one. Maybe Dow Central has some HIPAA compliance in there, but they're certainly not because like you can't do safe storage abduction, right? Because they don't have firewalls. So like compliance equals complexity. Because you have to work within a regulatory system, which means you need certain things you have to have, you know, like for some things, if you're doing HIPAA stuff, like if you're doing medical, you do need to have a secure isp, for example.

Right.

And even if you're doing like financial stuff where you're like getting financial, like deep financial information off people, technically speaking, you're probably looking at financial services which probably require secure ISP as well. You know, even online fitness businesses, stuff like that, you are taking like some medical information there. So it's not hipaa, but it works under a different set of rules and laws. And so, you know, these are, these are real risk points. And so like those cheap dialers, like, I think they're good and they serve a purpose, but we have to realize what they're for and what they're not. If we are going to be doing high volume outbound Dialing, these are things that we're going to come up against. And so we have to have some mitigation strategies in place to be able to make sure that we can keep the business going. Because you know, the risk is just not really worth it. And over the course of years, every single time I've been in an outbound team, I've seen just pickup rates go like that. So what is the natural conclusion is like, well, more people, more leads, more DY styles. The answer is break more of the rules. When you break more of the rules then you just go into the realms where they're going to make it harder and harder and harder for you to actually get through to people. It's a self fulfilling prophecy or a self licking ice cream where you're acting like a bad actor. And the more rules you break, the more rules you have to break to get the outcome that you're looking for, the more of a bad actor you are. You know what I mean? And so the higher likelihood you have of going into a bit of a death spiral or a fine spiral where like it's just going to end up, you know, shutting the business down. There was an Australian business that got $2 billion worth of fines because they accidentally called everyone on the do not call list instead of calling no one on the do not call this right? And it was $2 billion. That ASIC, which is like our version of the SEC, finally right now they shut the company down and they didn't have to obviously pay it because like they couldn't, but they had to liquidate the whole company, which is a real problem, right? Because like it was an honest mistake. But hey, they still did it, you know, 200,000 calls or 2, 2 million dials at 100 at $10,000 a pop. I think it was a 2 billion. Yeah, but yeah, so like there it is. So you know, you have to be able to understand the constraints that you're working with. And if you are doing high volume outbound, die. You have to understand that you are allowed to do it within certain constraints and you have to play ball and you can't just go rogue and do whatever the you want because you're like, hey, they're my leads and I'm going to make some money, bro. Like it's stupid. You are putting your entire existence at risk because like you can't be bothered looking at some regulation. You just think the odds of you getting done are low and which they probably are until that one person wants to fucking you over and all they have to do is go through and go, ooh, the wording on your funnel is wrong. I'll opt in. Someone will call me. I'll go, hey, would you mind not calling me again? Very softly and sweetly, right? And then from there, you get called 10 more times. Screenshot, screenshot, screenshot, Screenshot. Submit. Fuck you. Your business is now bank. It's a very easy thing to do. On that note, I'll see you in the next one.