The Difference Between Sales Training & Sales Coaching - CIFC Episode 128
Pat, Marco, and Jeremy break down why sales training and sales coaching aren't the same thing. Training teaches methods and tactics. Coaching fixes what's broken in how someone actually sells.
That's very military, isn't it? I wonder the roots of that, because when you teach a military lesson.
Yeah.
It's the what, why? Standard.
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Like, that's the way that every military lesson opens up.
What, why?
And the standard you'll be at the end feel like that. Because I've heard you frame that multiple times. Every time I feel like I'm back in my uniform and I'm getting told, during this lesson, you will be taught. The reason you need to know this is by the end of this lesson, you will like.
Exactly.
And it is.
It's quite dictatorial. It's to set the tone that I am the boss here.
Yeah.
Which in the army, they're 100% doing.
Yeah.
So the military has teaching things down pat.
Oh, yeah.
Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Coffee is for closes, myself and Pat. Today we're going to be going over the difference between sales training and sales coaching. The pros and cons of both, and I guess how you can utilize both in order to get better at sales. So if you like this stuff, make sure you like subscribe notification bell and then we'll see you after the intro. If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this, you listen and review.
Marco Chief of excellence has said that there is some confusion on the difference between sales training and sales coaching. I looked blankly at him and nodded and said, yes, boss, because I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. You evidently do know that there's a difference.
So I think what. So what we're trying to say is, like, there's, I guess, like there's elements of when you should train. So, like, if we relate it back to sport, like, if you're training, you're not necessarily being coached. Like, you're just kind of. You're going through motions, you're going through repetition, muscle memory, you know, I mean, there's coaches there to make sure that you're on the right track. But, like, if you're going through, like a weightlifting cycle, like, there are times when you just have to do reps.
Okay.
And then if you go through. But if you go through a technique phase where you're getting coached, like, that session will be very different. It will not be tiring. It's there to be technique based. It's there to improve the 1% so that you can drive the ball forward. So it's like the coaching is there to improve small incremental things. And the training is there to provide you the volume so that you can use those small incremental changes in order to make significant process. And so we have a couple of different products and services amongst the seventh level Sniper family.
Right.
Because it is sort of essentially operates as one large business instead of the two segmented businesses, but just because of geography, they're run independently financially, but they're fairly intertwined.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? So we have sales training. So things like our boot camp, which is like a sales sniper thing, we come in and we're doing sales training. So we're getting repetition, we're teaching activity based things like, hey, this is how you go out there and you just make things happen. And then we have sales coaching, which is more like all the NAPE Q 2.0, 3.0 and like inner Circle. So that's kind of where you're looking for like that real nitty gritty feedback. But you're not just getting, hey, here's what you go and do now. Let's just practice going and doing that. So like, if you come in inner circle, right? Pat, if you decide to buy Inner Circle, which I think you definitely should.
Okay, I'm sorry.
Oh, fantastic.
You take credit cards, right?
Yeah, I do take venmo credit cards. PayPal cash app.
So.
So you come in and like we'll present you with all the trainings that you have to do, which is like, okay, these are the modules in which I need you to go through so that you're at a good enough baseline level to where I can provide you with feedback that's going to be very beneficial. Because it's very difficult for me to provide feedback to someone if we're not talking the same language. So if someone comes in and they're brand new to sales, like we don't specialize in that. In seventh level, like we specialize in making existing salespeople much better at sales.
Okay.
We don't specialize in teaching people who have never sold a thing the basics of how to sell. That's not really what we're designed for because we are a true sales coaching company.
Okay.
So what we do is we take everything they say, how they say it, when they say it, and we give them very precise feedback on how to do all those things better.
Okay.
But with sales training, like what we provide at Sniper, which is more of a boot camp style, it's just more like, okay guys, this is. These are the things that have to be done. Let's Go out there and do them. Sort of like, bit more of a cheerleader style camp, you know what I mean? Like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.
Yeah, yeah.
So you've done a ton of. We, we've been through, like, all the courses and stuff that you've done. Probably haven't even scratched the surface of all of them, really. Because you were a serial course doer for a while there.
Right.
Like.
Like, as you can tell, I did lots of fitness courses.
The difference between training and coaching within those courses, especially within. Which do you think, as a training course, did you find value in? Before there were ones here I really.
Like Straight line persuasion.
What is that? Like, I know that. Yeah. So what, like, why is it called that? What's the.
Because it's essentially giving you. The reason why it's good is because it gives you a concept of a sale as a straight line. So you've got the phases that you take someone through, but you're looking for the most efficient method possible to get them from here to here.
Okay.
And so, like, for me, as a concept, that works really well. I was like, all right, cool. Listen, I don't remember all the stages that you.
Right.
It's been a while since I've gone through it, but I was like, okay, conceptually, without having to be coached on this, I can put this together. It's simple enough to where it's like, okay, like, I don't need coaching on this. Which. Which is why it's somewhat effective. The downside to that is if it's so simple, you don't need coaching. There's not much nuance in it, so it's really only going to work in very specific situations. And then you'd need the coaching to help you kind of nuance that around different styles or even different types of prospect. But Jordan Belfort's like a savage. There's a phenomenal video which we can link up there, which is him using straight line persuasion on a prospect. He doesn't even know he's being filmed.
Right, okay.
And it's. He's a savage. Like, there's a reason why he made so much money, you know, it's because he's really good at sales.
Okay.
Like, the dude straight upgraded sales.
Yeah.
But, like, his methodology, I think, is like a good. Oh, I've never really sold before, or I've never. I've just sold in this kind of random ad hoc manner. This is a good procedure for me to go through. And it's nine, nine, seven, right. You can buy it for 500 or a thousand bucks, you get access to all of his videos, a ton of video content. It's kind of Iglo piggoty in the way that it's put together. Kind of seems like, you know, someone who's enjoyed very fruitful life has put that together.
Right.
That's how I'll say it. But there is a ton of information and a ton of good stuff in there. So that was probably the best in terms of that. In terms of, like, coaching. When I learned any PQ from Jeremy, that was the best. But any PQ is not a good program if you don't get coaching. So with all of our things, we offer an element of coaching.
Okay. Right.
Whether it's like an inner circle, we offer group and one on one. In 3.0, we offer a group and one on one, and in 2.0, we offer a group.
So that's interesting that. Imagine if someone signed up for seventh level, right. They're doing any PQ and they.
Yeah.
For whatever reason, don't make the live calls and they don't get feedback.
Right.
So there's like, what's involved within that? There is an opportunity. There's the group calls.
Right.
There's the coaching session.
Yeah.
They can watch them afterwards.
Right, Right.
And then we have accountability coaches that are there to kind of like, help guide them, you know what I mean? To make sure they're going through it. But there's like a point to each one. So everyone wants a script.
Right.
And this is where, like, the sales coach in me, like the sales coach in me dictated how those programs have to be laid out.
Okay.
Because, like, I know any PQ is a. Is. Is the best way to sell, but it's also the hardest to adapt.
Okay. Right. Yeah.
So do you mean hard to adapt? Like, if you have something else or even if you're coming from a. Like a blank slate? It's hard.
I think it's probably to do with your personality.
Right.
Like, any PQ really resonated with me. And I was like, oh, yeah, sweet. I. I understood why it was put together the way it was put together. Very quickly. I was like, ah, this all makes sense to me. But that moment of, ah, this all makes sense can take people 12 months.
Yeah. Yeah.
Or it can take people two days, you know, so. But you need to have that moment of, like, oh, this is. Oh, wow. And you go, this is clever. And it's not until you can understand why it's so clever that you'll be able to Use it really well. And so, like, when people sign up, I have an adaptation video of how to adapt this. I'm like, guys, you don't walk into a gym and do squats in a certain way. See Another way on YouTube, load up your max and then go for it. Like, there's a way in. Like, if you're doing a new style of anything, you need to learn it and then adapt it.
Yeah.
Whereas people just go, this is the greatest. Jeremy makes a ton of money. I'm gonna do everything like he does. And they shit to bed because, like, they're just trying to change everything about themselves too quickly. So I, We. I. I had a. I saw that problem and I tried to fix it through, like, a series of implementation videos and talking about a lot and making sure it's like, it's a key talking point when people are onboarded, when people are being coached in the portals, everything. Like, don't just throw away what you're doing. Adapt this slowly so you don't have a drop in income.
Yeah.
Because a new way of doing it. Like, of course, even if it is superior, you won't be as good at it.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So when I laid out seventh and I was like, okay, this is how I want this to work. It's like the end result is you get a script. Because, like, if I just gave you a script, it's just words on a page. It doesn't make a lot of sense if you don't understand why things are being stacked on or how they're being stacked on. And so. But in saying that as well, I have to teach you the point of the phases. So the first thing we do is, is sort of go through a background of selling. Like an actual. Like a history lesson in selling. These are the different sales techniques that have been done over the years.
Right, Right.
All through the Model 1, Era 1, Era 2, and we're in Era 3.
Right.
According to us, this is not official documentation. This is just our interpretation of it.
Can we. Can we expand on that a little bit?
Yeah. So ERA one is like just bamboozling idiots. You know what I mean? So it's like when the guy sold the Eiffel Tower five times.
Right, Right.
Because people were just morons back in the day.
Okay.
And. And more than that, people were morons. They didn't have access to information. Right. Like, that would be. The collapse of that is like people like.
Hang on a second.
Like, I think it can be really hard for people to even imagine that you're in this world we've got our phones and photos and everything. I was talking to Boosh for the. The podcast that just came out. You would have seen it has a like cool intro of us doing cool guy army stuff at the start because we're talking about sniping. There's a thing with photos and I was looking for an appropriate photo for it of me to put in. And James, we both kind of remark like, oh, there's not many photos. And it's like. But that was. It's not that long ago. But that's a time when photos were like, you had to have a camera.
I have a whole operation where I think that's like two photos of me.
Yeah.
And for starters, culturally, it was not like you. You don't take photos of that. It's just not something the cool class is not.
Not worked out well for me.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
I mean that there's a lot of evidence.
Yeah.
That recording like your all day every day is a bad move. But like phone cameras, it's really. It's a 10 year old thing or 15 years max. And then even the first five years of that, the quality was junk. So the idea that it, you know, there should be. There should be a photo of that photo, it didn't happen. It's like what happened in a time before there were photos of everything, before everyone was walking around with their photos. So then, you know, go back 100 years before there's even an interconnected nature of anything. You're not even be able to drive down.
Yeah.
So it's easy to bamboozle people who are very intelligent because they just don't know.
Yeah, right, exactly. So like that was kind of the old era. So. And that was just very, you know, it's just sleazy, slimy stuff like ada. Attention, interest, desire, action. That's like the first model of sound. That is the first recorded model of selling. Okay, Attentorist. Interest, desire, action. Attention, interest, desire, action. So you get their attention and you figure out their interests, you figure out their desires and you get them taken. Action. Okay, that is the oldest sales model there is.
Okay.
And like it's. It's valid.
Yeah.
It's solid.
Right.
It makes sense.
Yeah.
Then from there it moved on to like BANT and a few other things which I can't remember the acronyms for, to be honest. But in era two, you have more Boiler Room selling.
Okay.
Okay. So if you've ever seen the movie the Boiler Room or you've seen Glenn Glary again. Ross.
Right.
Or you've seen Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, it's that type of selling. So in like the sort of 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s, we moved into a very aggressive form of sales which is like shaped the world of as to how salespeople are perceived.
Okay.
So during that era it was very much feature benefit, right. And it was quite pushy. So it was sort of like, you know, like that's where like you know, like the silence. Everyone knows like when a sales guy's being silent, they're like whoever talks first loses type thing.
Right.
Which is a total load of shit.
Right.
I can talk about the how silent should be used and the benefits of it and why it's important in a non sleazy way. But like that's kind of error too, right? And then era 3 is the post trust era. So it's like now as salespeople we have to deal with the fact that a bunch of jocks in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s just bamboozled a bunch of people with it lies and shitty sales techniques that were hyper aggressive and just designed to make money. So now if you say you're a salesperson, people hate you immediately because that's what they're picturing. That's what's been ingrained in today's society.
Yeah.
So in order to, in order to combat that, there's been different sales styles that have been done. One is like say consultative selling.
Right.
Concentrated selling is a very, you know, it's, it's, I guess it's probably the most serendip. But like that is designed to be like a doctor Frame. So it's like I'm the doctor, I ask you questions and then I present you with solutions.
Okay.
And because I have, I'm a trusted authority, like, which again is very hard to translate for a salesperson because they're not, they're just a salesperson that's like, that's one way, that's more of the Dan Locks type of selling is very consultative.
Okay.
Again, not a bad way of selling, but requires a lot of cases, a certain level of charisma that is not going to lean itself towards salespeople. Leans itself more towards entrepreneurs.
Okay.
So like so B2B thing, it's probably much better.
No, it's a guy selling his own stuff. I think that that's really where that comes into play.
Okay.
Like if I'm selling my own stuff, I have, I can sell completely differently, which like one of the problems that I've always had or like I've talked about it enough now to where it's not usually a problem, but when we hand over in a new account where we're doing the sales and we're handing over from the owner, they'll give us a bunch of sales calls and be like, hey, work off these. And I go, I can't even have my guys watch these because if they do, they'll, they'll start contaminate. They'll start trying to be you. And we can't have these guys be you. Otherwise they'll, they'll just steal your business.
Right.
You know, like, you can't do that. Like, they need to sell like salespeople, not like business owners. It's very different. And they won't have the back end knowledge to back up the bravado.
Yeah.
Because they're not a marketing expert or they're not an Amazon expert.
Right? Yeah.
Like, you don't want them going down that road.
I think that's the tricky part. Like, you know, not being in the sales part. But I spoke to Luke this morning about, you know, the whole process of, of selling for someone else and when you aren't the expert and, and I've always wondered, like, when someone gets really. But how, like, you have to deflect that because at some point you have to be like, yeah. Without saying to them, like, I don't know, I just sell the product.
Yeah.
Like, to be honest, that's not a bad way of doing it.
Really.
I think honesty, man, is always the best policy.
Okay.
Like, I've tried to. I think I always say this a lot to salespeople in sales trainings. Best thing about being a sales guy is if you're good at it, you never have to lie.
Yeah. Okay.
Like you can, you can be the truth sayer. And being, being the guy who can always tell the truth is I think it's great. Like, is that gives you free 100. You know what I mean? And so, like, I'll go, oh, hey, man, like, I'm not the guy you want answering that question. I'm the guy who is trying to figure out if you should speak to the guy who can answer that question.
Okay. You know what I mean?
I was like, but you don't want the answer for me. You want the answer from that guy.
Yeah.
They're like, yeah, yeah. And I was like, sweet, Then ask that guy.
Okay.
The way you do that is by getting through me.
Okay. You know? Yeah.
Like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
Yeah. Right.
So I think just kind of like laying it out There. But then era 3 is the post trust model, which is like the NEPQ era, Right? So it's like now you're dealing with, like, every single time. You cannot be perceived as a salesperson.
Okay?
You just cannot. Because the moment that you're perceived as a sales guy, the context of the entire conversation is done. Because true buyers hold their cards close to their chest. They don't want to give you the leverage.
Okay?
So, like, the people who go into a house who are just in the process of starting to look around, run around and go, oh, my God, though Johnny would be here, little Sally to be here. It's gonna be amazing. It's incredible. They put their name down. Yes. It's in the budget. This is fantastic. And they call him and go, right. The person who's just looking around quietly and, like, inspecting the moldings and looking for cracks and doesn't say much isn't going to give you anything is the person who will buy that house because that person doesn't want to be leveraged. Like, you wouldn't go into a car yard and go, oh, my God, do you have it? I've been looking for this car for two years.
Yeah.
Yeah, you have done it. How much money you want for this car? Is there room for negotiations?
Can I write a blank check and you just fill it in for me?
No, there's not. Okay. I'll take it.
Right.
Like. Like, you know, so. And don't get wrong. There are those people in the comments all the time. It's like, yeah, okay.
I'm that.
Oh, yeah, I'm that too.
I got no game. Yeah, I got no game. I get so excited. That's why I can't play any kind of cards. Whatever. I wear my. I wear my hat on my sleeve.
Yep.
I got, like, definitely, definitely have bad cards.
Oh, God.
We should definitely all go all in. I'm terrible at it.
And I do the same.
I like it all excited. If I'm gonna buy something, I'll be like, oh, look at this. I'm totally that guy.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that's. But that, like, most sales guys are, to be honest.
Right.
And you're the closest thing to a sales guy who doesn't do sales. You know, I used an APQ on my wife the other day. Worked a treat, really. So this is a random aside. You can cut it out if you want. Boosh. But we're looking at that in your house, and obviously we've moved a lot. That's something we can probably say. We've Moved a lot of times. And obviously moving kids is not great.
No, right.
Just for them as well.
Yeah.
I mean, but this place, we have an option to rent it and then buy it, and then stability. I can actually finally create some stability. I just got to put my big old fucking balls in the line for it.
Right.
Because it ain't a small. It ain't a cheap house. But anyway. And so, you know, we're in a rental at the moment. It's a nice house, but it's got some problems that we don't particular like about it. And so she's like, oh, but should we just wait, you know, do this? And so I was like, yeah. I was like, that makes sense. But like, what is it that we're really looking for in a house? And so she kind of pulls it out. I'm like, okay, okay. I can see how that'd be good.
Right?
And then did she see. No, she doesn't see the change. Because she doesn't see it ever.
No, she's never seen me do it.
She's never seen it before.
So I went, okay, well, I guess, like, what happens if at the end of this lease, they sort of. They do some of the things that we're worried about. The construction next door continues, and then, you know, at the end of the day, we have to go into another rental anyway because we haven't put ourselves in a position to. We're ready to buy. Action. She goes, oh, my God, that'd be terrible. I was like, so, what do you think we should do? She goes, I think we need to take this house. I was like, I think that's a good idea. That's. I think that's. That's a smart choice. Well done. You know, like, that took about five minutes, but it was just going through that. And then she goes to me two days later, she goes, you didn't sell me into that house, did you? And I was like, no, no, no.
I just asked you a series of questions.
Yeah.
With a particular timing and tonality.
Yeah.
And you wanted to buy that house.
And then a day later, I told her, I sold you hard enough. I was like, remember when I said this? She goes, yeah, that's called a consequence question.
Yeah.
She's like, you son of a bitch. I go, do you still want to do it? She's like, oh, it's the right.
It's the right.
It's the right move. So, yeah, anyway, aside. So with the new model of sharing, so, like, if you're perceived as a salesperson, it's really terrible. And a lot of the times when we're in sales coaching sessions, that's the first thing we fix.
Okay.
So people come in, they're like, hey, how are you? It's Matt from xyz and I just really am looking forward to talking to you today. And I just want to know how. Hey, did you see the local sports ball game? Did one team run faster than the other into the other team's area? Oh, I love when they run faster into the team's area.
Right.
It's the best one. They put their ball into the other team's net.
I know. It's sports ball, am I right?
Sports.
I love sport. So, yeah, like, they did do that and then immediately you go, yeah, you know, so, like, for me, like, when I. I have a very different. A lot of people in the. In the coaching consulting industry, they teach setting a frame of authority at the beginning. Hey, Pat. So looking forward to having this conversation. At the point of this conversation is going to be about figuring out if this program is really a good fit for you. At the end of that, I'll ask you if you want to be a part of it or not. There's no obligation to say yes or no, but it will be a yes or no. Is that okay?
Yes. Yeah.
Except what if it's maybe.
Exactly.
Right.
That's very military, isn't it? Like that. I wonder the roots of that because, you know, like, when you teach a military lesson.
Yeah.
It's the what, why? Standard.
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Like that's what. That's how. That's the way that every military lesson opens up. What, why? And the standard you'll be at at the end.
Yeah.
And like, I feel like that because I've heard you frame that multiple times. I feel like every time I feel like I'm in a back in my uniform and I'm getting told during this lesson you'll be taught. The reason you need to know this is by the end of this lesson, you will like it.
Exactly.
And it is.
It's quite dictatorial. It's quite. It's. It's to set the tone that I am the boss here.
Yeah.
Which in the army, they're 100 doing.
Yeah.
Right.
Like that is exactly what's happening.
Yeah.
And I wonder what influenced that, like, military blueprint lesson, because that's the same in every military all around the world.
Right.
It's not anything.
It's a very effective.
Yeah.
So the military has teaching things down pat.
Oh, yeah.
Remember when I did my Olympic Lifting courses. I went, okay, guys, so in this lesson, what we're going to learn is the reason we're learning this. And at the end of this, you will be at this standard. And I go, and I will do everything. And I like this. Do that methodology. So I will show you, explain it, and then you will do it with me. You understand? And they. I literally. I did my, like, courses all that way, and then I did my testing at the end and they came to me and they go, I've never seen that. This is the Olympic Lifting Committee in Australia. Yeah, we've never seen that. Taught that well. Like, where did you learn that? I go, oh, that's just how the army teaches morons to do stuff.
Yeah.
I was like, because if you're going to teach a person with an IQ of 80 to use a machine gun, you better be simple.
Well, you know what? Like, it's actually even more in depth than that because I've done a lot of research into this myself because that's really what I love to do is I'm. I'm a teacher, right. And I teach through storytelling, but has to be framed in the way that you teach. And the way the military does it, and it's not just us, it's every military all around the world, is to make it so clear, but so linear with no resistance. And so that it becomes like the neural pathway is established so much more effectively than in. By giving people choice. And when you have choice like you do in the real world, then like you. The neural pathways start branching all over the place and get all these different options. But because the army is able to just go, no, this is the way you are doing becomes so linear that you become. Performance under stress is increased through the roof. And we do the same with dogs, right? Like, it's. The whole point is to create a neural pathway where it's the only decision.
Lizard brain.
Yeah, well, it's not that, like, it's not that like, I chose to do this. It's. I found myself doing this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's. And that's the idea of training people for combat and whatever. But I think it's that authority of stance. I'm very curious how much that, like the military is responsible for that creeping into sales or vice versa.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
People been selling shit for a long time.
That's true.
You know. Yeah. So that's all designed to set. It's designed, in my opinion, my controversial opinion, to make salespeople feel like they're in control of a situation which they're not in now, but you as a prospect, you then know you're going to be asked to make a binary choice at the end. Therefore, all of the information that you provide me is in context, that there will be a binary.
Yeah.
Whereas I start a sales call, hey man, how can I help? That's it. Now Jeremy starts at a different way. He usually goes, hey, listen, the point of this call is to find out more about you, to see if what we do could help. Is that okay? And they go, perfect. So again like there is a little bit of a frame there just to kind of set up the context of the conversation for me. Because they've gone through a marketing funnel.
Yeah.
Then I kind of, I kind of know what they're there for. So I like and I, and I'm a sales guy who likes to sell in very condensed time frames. Like if I book in a sales call, even if it's for 80 or 90 grand, it'll be 30 minutes. That's it.
Right.
And I set that time 30 minutes. Because if I have an hour, I'll just fluffle around.
Okay. Right.
But if I had 30 minutes, it's like time to get down to business. And if you get down to business, then it's like now I can, I have a process that has to be super tight and I'm like, I'm on a timeline and I perform better that way. Right. And so for me, like in that, in that area of sound, like the, when I talk to people, like I don't, I don't like some people that get real stiff and rigid, you know what I mean? When they're on calls, like I'm hyper conversational in sales calls, like I'm quite neutral but very conversational. And so that means the person doesn't ever feel like I'm on a script. They don't ever feel like I'm selling them anything. I'm just asking questions and then being engaged in times where I should be engaged and using my tonality, not necessarily what I say, but how I say to, to invoke emotion out of them, the emotions that I want them to feel. And that's how you get a good result. And that's what like that post era trust requires in order to be a high performing sales rep because you are under scrutiny. And the moment you break that veil, the moment they think you're there to sell them something, every single answer changes. And so like in sales coaching, in those coaching sessions, like the first thing we try and do is. Is break that habit. Like, no, no, no, let's. Let's make this more conversational. Let's use your tonality. And so like, I don't give them a script first. We give them like, this is. This is what sales used to be. This is what sales needs to become. So break these bad habits. Because all the time, I don't know if it's the same with dogs or whatever, but removing a negative has a better result in the early stages than adding a positive.
Right?
So like if I remove a bad behavior that has a. That will have a better outcome than adding in more positives.
Yeah, yeah.
Like if someone's got terrible, like they solution drop a lot, they index sales because like, oh, that's perfect. We help exactly with that. Immediately that person's like, you're selling me something.
Right?
So if you just remove that, that person has a much better chance of buying.
Right.
Rather than me, like adding in countermeasures.
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, for sure.
So I work on that and then from there I get them under a structure of any pq. Now, I wouldn't get them to change their script. What I would get them to do is like rearrange or alter their script to be in a particular order, which is connection, situation, problem, solution, consequence, commitment, presentation. And it's in that order for a very specific reason. And it all builds on top of each other. And you can't fuck up, move the orders around. People try to. It pisses me off.
Yeah, right.
Don't do that. Okay, that has been moved around many times by Jeremy. The one that we're on now. That's the best one.
Yeah, yeah.
Right, so we do that. Then from there it's like, okay, now you're using a structure and if you were just winging it before, like 90% of salespeople are just winging it. Just putting them on a structure is better. And then we train the structure. So practice it. Go through your portal and then go through in your Q and A sessions and you ask questions more specific to you. So you get the coaching, but then you train, train, train, train.
Right?
You get much better context understanding. Then from there we take them to NDPQ 3.0. The upgrade from there is more advanced stuff in the portal that they can train on and then much more coaching. So they get a daily role play. They get a tonality session. There's two sessions on each phase. So phase one, two and three and four, and then phase five, six and seven. So there's those two sessions per week, so they have a better understanding. We basically. It's like Bible study. That's how I kind of describe it. We take the NEPQ black book and we go through those phases and we understand the questions and how to input them into your script. We don't write your script for you. We teach you how to sort of build your own from the resources that you have. And then we coach on that.
Okay.
Then from there we have objection. Handling training, tonality training and role plays.
Right, Right.
So because the role plays are there for like guided training.
Right.
So you're not doing crazy and having your arm dislocate when you're lifting.
Right.
And then you've got the lowest hanging fruit is like, once you're on a structure, get your tonality correct. And that's a big one. Because how I ask a question is going to have a big result in how it's received. And then. Objection. Handling training. The reason why that's important, because those are the two easiest things to get good at. Like, if I can get you 25% better at handling objections or just get you really good at handling money, you'll make 25% more sales.
Okay?
That's it. Right. So we coach the shit out of that to make sure we can get quick wins. Once you've got all that, then I'll give you a script in inner circle. Jeremy will write it out with you.
Yeah. Right. Okay.
So you've got all the foundations to where now a script is actually a massive benefit to you. Whereas if I give you the script over here, all you're gonna do is get it, do it badly, and then you're gonna go, oh, that doesn't work.
Yeah.
You know, so, like, we have to kind of like toe the line between, like, what training do we give you and what coaching do we give you?
Yeah.
I think that, that in all training, that incremental understanding of things and like, I always refer to it as like foundation skills.
Right.
Like when. When things get rickety, you always gonna. The house of card will collapse, but the foundation will be left. And that foundation has to be super strong and ready for the next thing. And so we see it in training, no matter what it is, whether it's sales training in dog training, when I do it, or. Yeah, anything at all. Everybody wants to rush to get to the end.
Yeah.
And it's like, but you're going to up. And if one of those up points is at the bottom, the whole thing falls down. And you may as well. Not know the rest. Yeah, I'm teaching a bunch of people to decoy at the moment, right? Which is getting bitten by the dog. And, like, last week I showed her this, like, particular, like, quite very advanced technique. And someone's like, how come you're only showing her that now? Because the dog needed it for six weeks. And then she even goes, if I. If you'd said that six weeks ago, I wouldn't even have anywhere to put that. Like, I don't even know. Like, I'm overwhelmed by the fact that I'm even being bitten at that point, let alone the angle of the dog's neck relative to its body.
Right?
Like, and you just couldn't. There would be nowhere to put it. It would just be noise, but that you would smile and not at.
That's a good coach, right? Because I get asked questions all the time and I consider myself a good sales coach. Like, I'm. I think I'm one of the more nuanced people on the planet when it comes to the explanation of sales. Like, I think I can do that really well. And so, like, when someone asked me a question, like, I have to sort of. You have to, in real time, figure out how. How they need to get that information.
Yeah.
Because, like, if I'm talking to Anthony about me and Anthony can talk in fucking gibberish.
Yeah.
Like, when me, Anthony and Margo, every single Friday, we spend three hours reviewing calls and we are fucking ruthless. Like, I would never want that to be out because we are three people who are very good at sales. Very, very good. And, like, we've all done the thing. Like, we're very good at it. And when we listen, the smallest things piss us off like you wouldn't believe. Because it's the three of us in an environment together. We're like, what the fuck? Like, you know, it's like, now he should have inflected that part of the word. What a fucking idiot. You know what I mean? Like, but it's all just. It's all just a bit of fun, right? And then we provide them with very, very detailed feedback. Hey, I need you to do this, buddy. You know what I mean? But, like, in the time, it's like, it's so frustrating when you. When you know exactly what has to happen, but it doesn't happen. And when three people independently have the exact same opinion as to what needs to happen, who all sell differently, and you're like, this is probably accurate advice. Yeah, but we spent a lot of time. And the way we talk about it is it would be gibberish to most people because, like, we're talking in highly specific jargon, but when we coach people, it's like you have to sort of the hard part is like, especially when I coach in a group environment, like, I have to explain things in ways where everybody can understand it.
Yep.
And it's like there I could be on one of their trainings for one of their businesses. I'd have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. Yeah. So, like, it's not that we're that much smarter than. We're just really good at this one thing, which is why we coach it, you know, so that is a really difficult thing when it comes to group coaching in particular, where it's like you have to. That's a particular skill set. Group coaching is a real skill set.
Yeah.
And that's why I don't let many people do it.
Yeah.
Because like, you can be a great sales guy. Doesn't mean you're a good coach. Like, Marco used to be a bad coach. Great sales guy, bad coach. But over the little last little bit, I've been coaching him on how to coach people for about the last year and a half because like, sometimes he'll say stuff and I'm like, bro, you are like going, you're explaining fucking too much aeronautics to a three year old.
Yeah.
You need to just chill it out and go concept. Once you get buying on the concept and you can go specific use case. Once you get the specific use case, you can give them really detailed feedback. Like you have to. They have to kind of understand your thought process and then from there. And that is the key thing actually. Like, if you want to get someone good at sales, you don't teach them what to say. And I get that a lot. Hey, do you have any like word tracks that you can use for this, this and this? And I go, no, don't worry about the specific things to say. Worry about the idea that you're trying to espouse.
Yeah. The sentiment of the whole thing.
Yeah. Like that, that's it. And that's really what we try and do in a coaching environment. It's like, I can't do that in a training environment. Training environment is like, once you have the coaching, go out and implement it and do your reps and listen to your portal. Sean Jones is one of our clients at seventh level. I'm sure he won't mind me telling people he makes about 100 grand a month. Right. It's like me saying, oh, no, don't tell everyone I have a giant dick. Oh, no. So embarrassing. Like, I'm sure Shaq hates that.
Right?
Yeah, I hate it too.
Right?
It's the worst.
It's the worst. So. But like, I go to that guy, he logs into the portal nearly every day for 30 minutes.
Right, right.
He's been making that money for a while. He's been a client of us for about two and a half, three years. We actually use his services at seventh level. He sold me into it. It's fucking beautiful.
Right?
So great guy, but still making great money doing his training. You know, he has voxer, he has inner circle, gets his coaching, but logs in there 30 minutes, probably three times a week.
Yeah.
And just goes through his training regime.
Yeah.
I mean, that's how that dude stays sharp.
Foundations.
He just keeps his foundations going. So it's not like he. He could basically not pay attention at this point during a sales call. And it's just automatic.
Yeah, yeah.
That. That's. That's like elitism at its core and is. You know, Bart, my mentor, has this way of explaining. He says that real experts work on the ABCs and that the beginners want to work on the X, Y, Z. And he says, but what they don't realize is that the X, Y, Z doesn't exist without the abc.
Yeah.
Like, butchering his.
Right.
Sniping is just foundation skills.
It's just foundation.
It's foundation skills.
Navigation, shooting, field craft, judging distances, those four things done to, like, excessive levels.
Ad nauseam, so that they happen without, like, thought. I always use the same example. I say, you, you're the same. You do your AI, you do your basic infantry stuff, and you're like, I can't wait to not do this anymore. And then you get to the unit and you're like, can't wait to be issued my jet pack and my. My laser beam. I was horrified to find out it's just more of the basic infantry stuff. Until you can do it with your eyes shut. And it doesn't like. I think that's one of the things about, like, military training. You see, like, guys with their blindfold on doing the gun stuff, and you look at it, you go, what a whack job. Like, why the would you. And you're like, yeah, but it's. You're never going to do it with your eyes closed.
You do it at night or you're.
Going to be looking at the people who are trying to shoot you while you're fixing the problem over here. Like, that's the point of it. The point is not to be able to do it with you blindfolded. It's to be able to do it without looking because you will be very much looking somewhere else.
Right.
Like it. And I think that foundation skills of anything I'm curious about though, like one of the products that you sell here is sales training for other companies. So you train other sales teams.
Yeah, yeah.
Where's the blurry line there between. Between training and coaching in that regard?
That's how it's actually a really difficult task to train other people's sales teams because, like you don't know it's the sales team or if it's the marketing. I think we've gone over that before. But when you're training sales teams, the first thing you have to do is an audit. Like you have to understand the lay of the land, who's who in the zoo. Because like, especially if you're bringing in a new methodology, you're going to get some serious resistance and pushback. So you have to create a plan of assimilation. Like you have to sell them into it and you can't just do it with a rah rah sis boom bah. Like there's another sales trainer I, I can't remember his. Andy, something like that. He's a real like domo, God bless him, wear super tight pants, Seems to be very enthusiastic. Right.
Like those two things connected.
I think so. I mean, he's very enthusiastic and they might have to do with how tight his pants are. If I had pants that tight, I'd be jumping around. He jumps around a lot, but he seems like he's a very fired up dude.
Okay.
And he's very much like, like that sort of, I think more boiler room sales team.
Right.
I don't know what his method is, so I can't comment. But I've seen all of his stuff and it's very much like that. Yeah. Now, we just came in and redid the sales for a bank, right. And they were very much appreciative that we didn't do that because they've done it before with other sales training companies and they've come in and gone like, we're going to teach you guys how to be fucking killers that make a million dollars a year. And we just didn't do that because it one we don't think like kind of act like that. But we came in, we're like, hey guys. So the point of us here is to do X, Y and Z and really focus on giving your clients an amazing experience or your prospects an amazing experience so they can become customers and ultimately get them into something which is a benefit to them. It's like, does everyone here feel like the product in which you're selling benefits your customers? Yes. Perfect. Then you have an obligation to be good at selling it because. And if you don't believe in it, you guys should probably leave because, like, this is not going to work. They were like, oh, this is different. We're like, listen, as a byproduct of that, like, you guys will make more money, the business will make more money, but the importance is, like, more people get access to your quality products and services. Is everybody on board for that? Sweet. All right, perfect. This is how we're going to do it. And that was my talk. And I talked for 10 minutes and that was it.
Right.
And then the boys took over and they did all the thing and they had great feedback and all of kinds kind of stuff.
So let me play devil's advocate because you talk about how you don't, like, set the frame, but you very much set the frame, but in a. A totally different way.
Yeah.
Like, the frame is not that sort of binary. This is how it's going to go or beat it. But it. It is more of a. Like, we are working together. We're in this where.
Okay. But group and individual are very different.
Okay.
So, like, sales on a stage is the opposite of sales in person.
Okay.
They're extraordinarily different.
Okay.
So like when you sell from stage, and I'm by no means the expert.
Eli, but you put this into. Because there was a group and you were like, yeah. So you put that into.
I paid Eli a while ago to teach me the basics of selling from stage. For those of you go to just, I don't know, say Eli weld into your phone. I'm sure it will come up, but he was like one of Tony Robbins top dudes. And he. He's. He's a true savant at like, understanding group psychology. Okay. And how, like, I remember at Funnel Hacking Live last year, he would do it was actually, I was like, I always knew he was good at what he did. And then I watched him break down each speaker and I was like, oh, you really get this.
Yeah.
Like, you don't.
Like, he's in the Matrix.
Like, not only do you know how to do it, but you know how to explain it and deconstruct it on a deep level.
Okay. Right.
And I was like, okay. And we actually paid him to train Jeremy to do all of our stage pitching. Right. So, like, dude's legit.
Right? Right.
Don't come to us if you don't know how to steal from stage. Go to Eli.
Right.
He has a great podcast. I think it's called Sales as Influence. I think we can link it, I'm sure, somewhere. But anyway, so, like, I watched. Would watch him decode.
