The HARSH Truth About Sales In 2025 (And How To Win)
Kaden and Joshua discuss what's actually working in sales right now. They cover team management, training methods, and how to build a sales culture that sticks, with practical advice for insurance and fitness sales.
It's the oddest phenomenon because I've never seen it in any other thing that you try to get good at. It's a little bit of study and a lot of practice. And a little bit of study and a lot of practice.
Dude, you're spending 10 hours a week learning how to make money. Take nine hours of that. Being very honest is super vulnerable, and being vulnerable to a stranger is not something that people just do.
In our team, it's really. I think we've done a couple of things that have allowed us to do really well.
Number one, whereas you see someone who's, like, just kind of, like, doing his thing in the gym, like, they're not doing anything. They're not really going to get a result. They're just kind of, like, spinning their wheels. And that element of, like, really precise practice is what makes really good sales reps. But you can't do that for long periods of time. Like, you can't do that five days a week. And I've had this conversation with closers. It's like, hey, man, if you come in here and you don't close at 30%, like, you're fired very quickly. Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Coffee Is for Closers. It's me and Kidon. Hello. Kidon and Hedges. Sankhes. Kidon. Sankhes. I believe that's how you pronounce it. Right.
That's a new one. I've never heard that one before.
A whale's vagina.
Exactly.
Scholars maintain the real meaning was lost years ago. So we're back. Episode number two. I'm in the home office. So is Kaden. Or as our friend Jeremy would say, you're in the Utah office, I believe, today.
Yes, exactly. The Utah office. It's not my. It's not at my house. It's professional.
No, this is. It's the Utah headquarters.
Yeah.
Of Sniper Insurance. Speaking of, we have a logo of which will pop up on the screen now, Right. If we. If we touch our hands, it'll dock. Yeah. So that, that, that. That seems fun. What we're going to do is talk about today what me and Kaden have brewing. We went over sniper insurance and kind of what it is, but we have a few things and we just wanted to kind of keep people abreast of the situation. Speaking of abreast, this is a fantastic product that I bought. Is it a. Is a. Is a mouse pad of my wife.
Look at the breasts.
Right?
That is awesome, bro.
So that's the. That's the pad how good is that?
That's pretty dope.
Chef's kiss. Right? So that they're lovely. First of all. How dare you. All right, so me and you have obviously been working together for a long time in different capacities and we've always got along and I think we've always kind of run a little. A good, a good little operation and so. And when I left seventh level, I started working with a business called Committed Coaches which is. Has to be the fastest growing fitness info space. It's madness. I came in and they asked me to be sort of like a head of sales. It was like I said yes and then realized it was way too big a job for someone to do in Australia. And me, and me and Rudy had a chat. Rudy Sanchez, who is no like no relation to you, although there probably is somewhere. Right? Exactly. And so you know, but it's a crazy business and like I think that like 20,000 sales calls a month. Right. And you know, the, the lead generation is wild. Every lead is a buyer lead, which is crazy when you think about it. And like it's all fitness and it's selling everything from supplements to like upsell supplements and selling fitness packages and selling combinations of the two. There's hundreds of sales reps and Kaden, you run. Is it the worst team or is it the best one? I can't remember.
Yeah, the worst one. Of course. That's why we wanted to talk about it.
Exactly.
We're just getting demolished by everybody.
Yeah. So run me through. So, so I brought, so I started doing that and then I realized it was really difficult to manage because it was really high growth. And the idea that I came up with, which I don't even know if they would still credit me with this idea. However, it was 100% my idea. I came up with a plan I implemented and I recruited most of them was. Was the, the sales bring in. Just bring leaders to run their own teams. Sort of like an insurance model, you know. And knowing that you come from insurance, I was like it works there. We're not, it's not like it's less dodecahedron shaped. Right. Than insurance. You know what I mean?
Yes.
Because it's just like a commission, like a management override, like that's it. But you know, but, but essentially it's like instead of trying to like it's impossible to have a centralized management that, that has such a huge growth path without having enormous salaries and if you do that then all of a sudden you're just going to kill the growth TR of The business bogged down with like fixed costs. And like, I knew that because I'd done it with sales sniper and I was like, this is essentially sales sniper, but more niche down, which is smarter and with better like lead pathways. And I was like, oh, Kaden, you should come over here and do this, because I think that you would crush it. And then Kaden came in and then you sort of ended up just kind of explain like how did you work the insurance and this and like where, who went where and why?
I think it just depends on what people are looking for. You know, with, with insurance, it's. Insurance is always going to be a good career. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I think committed coaches, you know, it provides a really good long term opportunity. Insurance, the big difference is, is what you build, you own, you know. But with that said in insurance, in typically, you're going to be a little bit more of an entrepreneur.
Okay.
Right. You need to be a little bit more organized. You need to be better at managing your diary. Whereas with committed coaches, yeah, let's say you're just somebody like you're just a sales rep, but you just want to get in and just sell things. You don't want to do shit. You don't want to worry about anything else. Committed coaches is.
It's the best opportunity to high ticket. Like.
Yeah, like, it's one of the best opportunities that I've seen just as a whole.
Yeah, like, I mean, it's like, like, you know, the commission structure goes up to as high as like 22%, I think, which is like high ticket numbers going back to 20, you know what I mean? But because of how they get leads, it actually makes sense. So, like, it's not like, usually it's like, whoa, scam alert. But because of how they get leads, which is sort of, you have to kind of come in to realize because it's sort of like their proprietary, you know, like, kind of like, like way of doing things that I don't want to have Rudy call me up after watching the podcast and scream at me, which would be totally fair enough.
But like, masterful though it is very already, like crazy. And I was just chatting with him a couple weeks ago and he was telling me that he could double that tomorrow if we had the sales reps for it. It's. I've never been in a business where.
The restraint is sales reps. Always.
Yeah, normally it's backwards.
Yeah, yeah. And so, so run me through. Like, like, give me the rundown. Like on your team, on the Sanchez on the dirty. The dirty Sanchez.
Yeah, on our team. You know, a lot of it depends on where somebody's coming from. I think that's one of the big things that allows, you know, why people that come to me have higher success than going a lot of other places is you have to understand their background before it's just like, hey, go do this, you know, and so try to tailor that as much as possible versus giving people like a cookie cutter path. But yeah, but really all it is is getting people plugged in and, you know, keeping the onboarding simple. I think we've all onboarded places where it's just like, here's all the information. Go drink from a fire hose. And then, you know, they just give you a script and say, go sell. And it's like, well, what? What the fuck am I selling? Right? And so in our team, it's really. I think we've done a couple of things that have allowed us to do really well. Number one, the culture is a. Is a really high value for everybody in it. Right. And so when we do onboard the wrong people, because I don't think you can ever stop that. I've never really had to fire anybody. Like, the, the. The culture kind of pushes them out.
Yeah.
Because if you come in and you're just a whiny little bitch, like, yeah.
It'S not gonna go, no, and it's.
Not even gonna be me. It might be me sometimes, usually, but it'll also be everybody else. You know, you're just gonna get ganged up on, gonna get. Gonna get ganged up on until you're like, yeah, these people, I'm out of here. Yeah, Right. But what that does is, is for the right people. And, and really, all the right people are the ones that, like, just want.
To put in some work.
Yeah, yeah. Like, sales is weird, man, because it works on a hockey stick. And I think you were the one who told me that. Where, like, everybody wants it to work right away, but for a lot of people, the majority of people, me being one of them, you come in and you have to do the work, and you don't get compensated super well for it if you're not good. Right. But once you get good, the, The. It's a hockey stick, your income just skyrockets. Right, but most people quit during the flat portion of the stick.
Absolutely. Yeah. It's a skill. Like, it's anything skill based, you know, like, if you're like, you're supposed. But the thing is, because we talk for a living, everyone talks Right. Everyone talks all the time, so people think they are supposed to be good at it. But like what they don't realize is that they actually suck at speaking to people in general. Like they're not good at it. And there's a weird thing that I've talked about before, but like Covid made a group of Gen Z, I think they're Gen Z's, right? Like the 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, they made them socially retarded. And you can see it like at bars, like if you go out, you know, I mean like they just don't know how to pick up women. Right. Like the girls don't know like how to flirt without being like raucous. You know, there's no like subtlety in communication. And that combined with dating apps has ruined sales. And it's a hot take. But like, like, you know, a lot of the time, like when you're young, you, you learn how to deal with these intricacies in communication by like having to put yourself out there in person. And that teaches you an awful lot about like what does vulnerability look like and sound like when it's real? You know, what does concern sound like and look like? How, how can you tell if I go? If someone says, you know what's really important to me is the A, the B and the sea, the sea is the one you ask about, you know what I mean? But like they don't hear that and so they just go A, like are they just word vomit something? Because like they just don't have that innate ability because they were locked inside and their mating practices are swiping.
They never had to listen to anybody. Yeah, that's crazy. In real time. And so they, you know, it's generation that's been brought up where they can just read, read a message and think about it for three hours to figure out what the person is meaning. And then you have a real conversation and it's like you have a half a second to hear the words they just said. Yeah, but you, you have to be quick at, at listening to what they actually meant. What, what's the important piece out of the words they just said?
Exactly.
Usually it is not the fucking words.
No, exactly. Because like there's a level like being very honest is super vulnerable and being vulnerable to a stranger is not something that people just do, you know. And so like I just think, you know, the big, the big thing is that these kids suck. And so what they need is they need volume and they need an opportunity to like where it's not crazy high stakes. Now, the beautiful thing about committed coaches is that, like, there is a tremendous volume and because of how they get leads, like, it's not. I'm not saying it's not high stakes because every lead is valuable and you to come and like, you can't be a douchebag and just like, not do stuff. However, it's not. They're not spending 400 bucks to get that person on a call. Right. So. Because when they are, and I've had this conversation with closers, it's like, hey, man, if you come in here and you don't close at 30%, like, you're fired very quickly. So do outbound. Do outbound to start. Like, give yourself an opportunity to it up for like a week or two, then come in and take some calls. Because the amount of pressure that's going to be on you, you're not going to like, yeah, right. And it's like, how much of my money am I supposed to spend on you figuring this out? Yeah.
How much am I supposed to trust? Like, I trust you, but do I. Do I trust you with my wallet?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No. So, you know, I think it's like, it's one of those really unique opportunities that allows people to come in and actually get better without getting booted in three weeks because they haven't cracked the code. Now, the other side of that is that it can be tough mentally to do 25, 30 sales calls and not get a sale.
But say it's gotten easier, though, and committed, because, like, we've introduced a few different things that have made made the pathway to success, like, significantly easier, which has been really good to see. You know, I. I have people literally on my team that were like struggling 6 weeks ago that will do 10k in comms this month.
That's fantastic.
You know, and I mean, that's really what brought me into Committed originally was as you and I were figuring out the insurance thing because you've always been, you know, you've been helping me with it for the last couple years. And so, you know, where we were previously at an insurance, we knew what it was like, that people had to be pretty good to see success. Right. And I needed a place where I could put people and develop them.
Yes.
And so I think it's a beautiful.
It's a really good system. And like, hey, if they're doing well and they want to stay, that's fantastic. Or if they want to then transition to more of a longer term career. Right. Which might be more like that Insurance, because you get the renewals, and there's a lot of really good things with insurance. But I think that, like, you know, the barrier to insurance is, like, contracting, you know, so you've got it. You've got to get your licenses and all that kind of stuff. And so for. For us, like, right. To be able to have a couple of areas. So someone can come to me. Someone can come to you. And we train these teams, like, you know, for committed, I'm doing four training sessions a week. Four or five, I think. And then, you know, like, you're doing sessions and then for. For our insurance guys, like, that's all relatively new and starting, but we'll be doing plenty of insurance. They'll have access to all the portals that we have and, you know, like, all that kind of stuff, like the full pathway. And so. And I have a specific portal for committed coaches as well. And, like, his fitness sales is like, my jam. I. I love fitness sales, you know, Joshua, I put you in that slack. Who? I put you in that. That thread. Oh, yeah, yeah, dude.
He sent me one of his calls, bro.
He's a killer.
He's so good. Yeah, I watched that call a few times.
He's so good. I've been training him one on one for 18 months. And the calls are like. Our training calls are like 15 minutes, and they're so d. And now he goes, struggle with this. This is what's happening. I go, well, let me go. Okay, do this. And he goes, yep, sweet. Comes back next week. He's like, all right, cool. That worked.
And that's actually one of like, the big things that people up when they're.
New is too much training.
That. Too much training.
It.
It's. It's too much studying. It's. It's the oddest phenomenon because I've never seen it in any other thing that you try to get good at. It's a little bit of study and a lot of practice. And a little bit of study and a lot of practice. Yeah. And when I first got into SAY because I think it's easy to fall into the trap, but you do a lot of study and almost no practice. You know, it's like, study, study, study.
Because you can't be rejected when you do the real thing, right? I actually. My last sales training for committed, which is at the end of last week or something, I think everyone was like, I said, guys, that you've got to stop coming to these sessions for the full hour. I said, like, this is a. Some of you come to Mine you go to like everyone else's and you're on these training sessions for eight hours a week. I was like, it's overload. You are not getting better. Like, like, just come. I said the when, when I was running seventh. And you would have seen this as well, right? The most successful people, you barely ever saw them. And it was because they would come in, they would have a question, they would ask that one question to the person who they knew could answer it. And they go, this. And you go this. And they would go, okay, bye. Then they'd go out and sell, right?
Like, money making activity.
That was it. And it was like, dude, you're spending 10 hours a week learning how to make money, which is like, that's. Take nine hours of that and try to make some money.
Well, even if you want to practice or even if you want to study and you're not going to, because some people, you know, it's like they're either going to study or they're going to go sit on their couch and jerk off. Like, it's not like they're going to go do money making activities.
Some do both, right?
Some. Some do both at the same time.
I've heard whatever gets you there. Whatever gets you there. That's what you need from me. That's what you need from me, right?
Yeah, maybe they're doing it right now. You know, if you, if you need to hear my voice to get you there, I'm good with that.
Yeah, it's fine.
Um, but I think a lot of them, you know, they just don't know how to practice and, and how to drill. Like, it's just like a sport when you're growing up. You know, you just need to make the drills. And if you're studying for eight hours a week, you could probably study for 30 minutes and do an hour of drills and get way more out of that.
Yes.
Like, that's all I did, bro. I just, I, I did drills two to three times a day for 15 minutes. And people are like, it can't be that simple.
Well, it is. It's because, like, it's the simplicity that makes it work. And so I remember, like, when sniper was at its peak, and this is actually why we called it sniper insurance. And hey, maybe there'll be a fucking sniper fitness. We don't know. We don't know, right? Maybe. But like, the, the training that I did with that team was like, difficult and very specific. And it's like, that's what that was, the secret sauce. It was like Never did we do generic. It was like, hey, today we're going to work on how to take back the conversation from alpha type personalities, right? And then it was like, the reason why we do this is this. The theory behind it is this. I'm going to show you how it's done and then we're going to break it down step by step, and then we're all going to go through those drills together. And we had, like, really good. Like, you know, you have to be good at sales to be good at role playing. You know what I mean? So, like, to. To know when to push, when not to push, like how to be like a prospect, but, like, not go so far and not because most people are just way too easy, you know, or like impossibly hard where you can't break through. And so it's like sake, right? So we had like, like Will Odoms, for example, the goat of talking a lot. Sort of like Whitney. Yeah, Whitney's a fucking savage role player, right?
Yeah, she's so good at role playing. Yeah.
And so, like, you know, it was like. And then what we would do is we would do drills where it was like, say that again, say that again. And then we'd change people, like, summarize the call. Okay, now you're going to switch the product to window dressings. And they would have to sell stuff they couldn't. They never sold. Which meant you had to, like, perfect the sales process, not just, like, how to sell that one thing. Like, I had a meeting with Everest. You know, Everest, the guy who's come in from Barton, and he's doing. He's like, been one of their, like, top. Yep. So I had, I had a good chat with him, actually, because he came onto the sales training and then reached out to me. So I booked a meeting with him and it was like, really interesting how some, like, he has, like, what I would say. And I told him this. I was like, you've made a super specific, extremely effective sales process for this, you know, I mean, like, you have. You have lasered this thing in. I said, like, you know, I don't think they would be great for selling other things to other types of people, but I think for what you're doing, that is like, that's the way to do that, you know, like, it was fantastic. It's like, if you're going to keep.
Doing that, like, if that's what you're going to keep selling, just keep doing that.
Yeah, just keep doing it that way, you know, he was like, oh, what about this, I was like, man, I don't want to. I don't want to change your shit at all because you're doing really well. Like, I was like, you know, there are some things that I see what you're doing, and I think, like, oh, yeah, that's really smart. Like, would I do it in general sales? No, but for what you're doing, killing it, you know, I mean, so just keep kind of doing your thing. But yeah, like, that. That element of, like, that real precise sales training, it's like the difference between amateur and a professional is when they go to a driving range. If you're a professional golfer, you are going there to perform specific drills and practices for weak areas of your game. You know, if you see somebody's ripped and jacked when they go to the gym, they have a specific plan that they're going through, you know, Whereas you see someone who's like, just kind of, like, doing his thing in the gym. Like, they're not doing anything, so they're not really going to get a result. They're just kind of like, spinning their wheels. And that element of, like, really precise practice is what makes really good sales reps. But you can't do that for long periods of time. Like, you can't do that five days a week for two hours. Like, it doesn't work that way. And, yeah, like, you know, everything ebbs and flows.
I don't think people. I think that's one of the big things that when salespeople come to me and they're working with us, that, that we really. I try to get them to understand is, like, it's going to ebb and flow. Whether that's like, a lot of times it's how much you're working. Right. But it ebbs and flows on a. On a grand scale and a. And a granular scale. You know, it's like, absolutely. During. During the day, if you're just grinding it out. I'm not saying you can't grind for a while. Yeah, you just grind it out for 18 hours a day or whatever. Like, yeah, depending on who you are, you'll be able to do that for a while, but you can't do it forever. And it's like, when it ends.
Yeah, it ends badly.
Most people. Most people, it ends badly.
Yeah. And, like, you know, if you're bad at free throws, don't go out with your friend who's also bad at free throws, and shoot free throws together and coach each other, because you both suck at free throws. Like, if steph's Curry's there. Ask him a question. Hey, man, how you do free throw? All you can do is get. You're going to get better at doing the wrong thing. That's really what's going to happen. You're going to like ingrain everything. And so, you know, we'll have a link in the description down for like, if you want to. If you want to chat to us about some of these opportunities. Like, you know, I think, you know, they're. They're both really good. Maybe we even have like a. Just like a, you know, if you want to, you know, we just have a big call, you know, once every couple weeks or whatever. But we'll figure something out because we got a lot of opportunity, committed coaches. I think if you're someone who's in high ticket, wants to sell anything, what's the highest price? Now once you stack things together.
Stack things together. The highest price thus far has been 18 grand.
Yeah. So I think so high ticket, you know, but, you know, four to five, pretty, like, pretty consistently and, you know, really good commission structures and super, super high volume. And then me and Kaden are running the insurance stuff, which I think is great. It's a rare opportunity. You don't have to pay for leads. You know, everything's kind of just set and forget. Sit there, take calls. Right. Make sales. What do you take a hundred bucks over the phone and get 600 bucks commission? Right, Yeah. I mean, I think the.
With the way we've structured it, we really just have good opportunities that give people the highest chance of success without, like, you know, I. I mean, I think there's somewhat of a ceiling no matter what you do and how much? For sure, like, you know, you're not going to come in and be a multi billionaire the first year selling either of them.
Probably not, but, you know, it's unlikely.
There's not much of a ceiling. You know, you can really make it pretty much whatever you want.
Sales, man, high ceiling, low floor. Exactly right.
Exactly.
Higher the ceiling, the lower the floor. Right. So, you know, pick your poison. But yeah, I gotta run. I got another call. But look out for the link in description. Guys, we'll go through. If you have any questions, careers or duffel points, you can come to us. I'll put the. The links to contact us. And if you want to be a part of team sniper and team Dirty Sanchez. Team Dirty Sniper. Right?
Dirty Sniper. I like it.
Dirty Sniper. Yeah, let us know. All right, guys, thanks very much. Bye.
See you guys on the next one.
