The Objection Handling Matrix: Part 1

All right, guys, welcome to another episode of Coffee is for Closers. Today is a great one. We're going to be talking about objection handling and the sales sniper proprietary system of the objection handling matrix. So going to be a good one today. How you going, James?

I'm good, guys. How is everyone? Not that you're going to answer, but I hope you're having a good day.

Yeah, we'll just take a good two or three minutes of silence, just dead air, just to let everybody answer now. All right, good. Now that everybody's left, we can just talk. We can start to get raucous objection handling today, right? Yeah, man. So it's the. It's the. It's the one thing everybody wants to learn about and probably the last thing they should learn about. But that's okay. We give the people what they want.

Seems like it's easier just to not have to handle objections in the first place, doesn't it?

It is. It is a much easier way of going about things.

If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within of the first episode you listened to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and review.

Put that coffee down. Yeah. So what we're going to do today, guys, is talk about the objection handling matrix, which is a design of my own. I don't know if anybody's ever done it before. I'm assuming they have, but as your sifu, I will repurpose it. This is my Dragon 100 billionaire objection handling matrix.

There's a lot of that going around right now, isn't there?

There is a bit of that going.

Repurposing of content speaking, inspiration.

No, I've never seen this anywhere else, but I'm sure somebody had to have thought of it. Yeah. What it is, is essentially, if you can picture a grid, we have an X axis being the horizontal and a Y axis. And then on the. On the Y, on the vertical, we've got three main types of objections being, think about it, money and partner. Those are essentially what they break down to. And on the top, on the. Going across the horizontal axis, we've got smokescreen, logistical and fear. Okay. So it's essentially like we're trying to categorize and then subcategorize objections so that we can have a more concise way of. Of dealing with them. Yeah.

And a nice, easy Visual be like, okay, so for this, I've identified this. I've now trained and learned how to handle it in a very specific way. So I handle it in the right way based off where that objection stems from, as opposed to just taking a random crack at it. Yeah.

And having some consistency in what you do so that it all kind of makes sense. Today, what we're going to cover in the podcast is the X axis, which is the smokescreen logistical interfere. So what we're going to do is we're going to go through those categories and kind of explain how and then maybe give some examples of how we would sort of handle some of these objections or a lot of the do's and don'ts. When it comes to identifying an objection, whether it is fear, it is logistical, those are the two ones you really want to make sure you get right or if it is just a smokescreen. So I think first things first, we'll kick off with the, with the smokescreen objection. What do you think, Jimmy Jam?

Well, I mean, that's going to be the shortest aspect because really, if it's a smokescreen, it's one of the others and you just haven't done your job well enough in getting to the real objections. So let's go into detail.

So a smokescreen objection is basically exactly what James just said, which is where the person just is lying to you because they're just not interested, so they're too polite to say no. It's actually a really rare objection, I find. Like, I cannot be rare for you. I mean, I can't remember the last time I had it. I think that the whole, the whole point of a sales call is to build desire. Like, I don't think. Think about it. Objections are very common either because we. Anyway, I'll talk about that in a different episode, but at least they shouldn't be very common. But a smokescreen is basically like you're going through it. The person is either unqualified, they're not your client, they're not interested, they don't want what you're selling. You got fish and they want beef. It's just kind of the way it is. So just, we have to. We have to be able to identify that and then basically do what we can to try and make sure that we've identified it. Because they're going to come up with a think about it. Almost always they're going to go, hey, man, sounds pretty good. What I'd love you to do is just put that together in an email and then Go ahead and shoot me through that and I will never open it. And then you can follow me up for a couple of weeks if you'd like, and I'll just not return your calls. So is everyone happy with that process?

Okay, the on a call, the smokescreen objection is the equivalent if you're walking through a supermarket minding your own business. Then a person trying to sell a charity comes up to you and they say, hey, do you like starving kids in Africa? And you're like, the bank's closed and I've got to get there really quick. It's like, no, it's not. You just don't want to talk to them. So you're too polite to say, hey, I'm not donating to your charity. I have absolutely no interest, and you're pissing me off by getting in my way, coming here and taking my time out. Just let me walk past without having to feel guilty. Right? But because most people aren't assholes, they don't say that, so they make up something else so they don't have to sound like an asshole.

Yeah, I don't do that. I go the other route. I was walking by an anti whaling thing one day, like they were against whaling, of which, like, I'm against. I don't want to see whales being killed. But they were just annoying me. And so I walked past them, they were like, do you want to help save the whales? And I was like, how dare you? My family was built on whaling. My granddaddy was a whaler, my daddy was a whaler. I'm a whaler. And God be it, my son will be a whaler. I usually, like, the person I was with was like, so embarrassed.

I like to be. I like to take the piss like that a lot. But typically, if their approach and everything was really good and it wasn't just like one of those pain in the ass ones, I'll sit there and be like, okay, I'll give you two minutes to pitch me. And then when they run through stuff, I'm like, ah, you did that all wrong. And then the main thing, I was like, do you believe in this product? And they're like, what do you mean? Of course I believe in starving kids in Africa. And then my question is, okay, I tell you what, show me how much you donate and I'll match it right now.

Oh, savage.

And none of them ever donate to the charity that they're trying to sell. So I'm like, okay, so you don't believe in it if you don't Believe in it. Why don't you buy it? They're like, I'm like, have a good day sir.

Have a good day. I have sufficiently rocked your worldview. Enjoy. Yeah, so it's, it's just one of those things like you sort of haven't done your job. It's usually going to be a case of like there just haven't been pre qualified properly. You're not going to get this in a triage environment where you have taken someone through a two step close or whatever. You're going to get it when someone's like, you're booking straight to Cole. They're just what you're slinging, they ain't catching. It's just, it is what it is. So the key to identifying it is step one is identify the objection. Hey, just send me the email. Perfect. What would you like on the email? Always ask for detail. I would like this, this and this. I was like, okay, cool man, I can take you through all that stuff now if you'd like, like we're on the phone, we can just go through it. And if they just continually put up objections where they just don't want to have to make a commitment, they don't want to have to put on the conversation, they're just someone who's like, please just leave me alone. Then just call it out for what it is. Hey man, if you want I can continue to go on this road with you, but if you just, if this isn't for you, you can, you can just tell me like that's totally fine. I'm perfectly happy with you just saying oh this. And I just don't think this is for me. If it is and it's just something that's like there's something holding you back. I'm more than happy to take you through it. Which one? Which one is it buddy? And sometimes they'll tell you, sometimes they won't. Sometimes they're just so petrified of fear that you can give them 25 outs. And they're so terrified of confrontation or what they perceive to be confrontation that they just stuff you around. But really you just got to identify it. Once you identify it, then just give up the ghost and keep them in like a long term pipeline. It doesn't mean that they're not right to buy, they're just not right to buy now. And they just might not be in the position to where it's beneficial to them to buy and it might not be beneficial for you to sell them. So I think it's a. It's a good one to be able to kind of get out.

Yeah. It seems like the smoke screen is sort of like a level of commitment from the person on the phone. You know, they're not committed to the process you put them through. Most of the times, it's probably the salesperson's fault for making them feel uncomfortable or pressured into taking the call in the first place.

Yeah. A lot of the time, like, I think that's probably just a bad. Like, a bad marketing process for people. Like, why the fuck am I on this call? No one made you do it. I don't understand how people can feel pressured to book a call. I do not. Like, yeah. Chris and Bolt say no, man. Like, it's funny. Like, marketing relies on people's politeness. It's really funny. Yeah. So, like, you know, it just is what it is. Unfortunately, there's not much more we can go into it than that. It's gonna be a short one. That's why we have two other ones to go through today.

And funny, going back to where I was saying with the charities once, the guy actually did donate to the thing that he was selling, and I still pay for Mind Australia to this day. 35 bucks a month. I'm not kidding either. I was like, okay, I'm a man of my word.

I will.

I will sign up.

He probably just uses a fake credit card. Probably charges straight to his own PayPal, maybe.

Who knows?

He probably been paying that guy for years.

Well, he deserves it because he got me.

The guy's got 800 people on $35 a month paying straight into his. I do always wonder that they just need to have taps. They just need to go, hey, five bucks now. Tap.

That makes so much more money anyway. That's besides the point.

No, I want to go deep. I want to go deep on charities. Mindset of giving to a charity, the.

Mindset is appeal to the slight little bit of human decency that people have, which is not huge. You'd think in this day and age with the amount of wars and, you know, people can't even. When a pandemic is coming. People can't even be assholes and not buy all the toilet paper.

The whole weird thing. All right, let's move into the next one now, just quickly.

On smokescreens, even if you do successfully overcome that smokescreen, that prospect is the guy that hangs up during credit card details.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

That's when you know that you've hit a smokescreen and that you've. It's Actually kind of like a win, I think when whenever somebody hangs up on a credit card detail, that person has no intention of buying, they don't even want it, but that you have removed every single logical and emotional reason for them not to. So the only way to proceed that makes any logical sense in any emotional sense is to buy the product. But they are so not in that space that they get 14 digits into a credit card and then hang up the phone. It's a really psychological phenomena that you only really experience as a salesperson and you probably don't even think would happen. But I reckon I've been hung up on credit card details no less than a hundred times.

So.

It happens. The first few times it happens, you just think the person's like, oh, the first time happened. Are you okay? What happened?

Oh, I used to take so much. I used to take that so personally. But no longer.

It doesn't, it doesn't matter. I can feel it coming too half the time, you know, because you haven't.

I mean, you probably wouldn't get it.

Now, but you would have early on.

In your sales career. I think it's a very beginner.

Hasn't happened to me for about a year.

Yeah, that's funny. Anyway.

It is a good one now. It's one of my favorites. I always post it up hung up on credit card because if you can't see the humor in it, then I don't know, you're not going to be in the sales game very well that way.

I have actually once selling for a gym, I had a guy hang up on credit card. I'm just like, fuck this guy, you know, this guy's a dick. And he called me back. His phone actually legit went flat. He called me back to pay the next day.

Once, maybe twice. Like, yeah, most of the time it's pretty malicious.

So if, if it does happen, don't not follow it up because there is that chance.

No, definitely follow it up. And I followed up super politely. I'm like, hey, is everything okay? Like, I know you wouldn't hung up on me. So, like, I'll just keep trying until you let me know that you don't. That you're okay and then I'll call them. You want to hear something that I did that was really vindictive? This was years and years and years ago in sales when I was doing sales for the gyms and I had this chick and she had scheduled four appointments with me and then either no showed or canceled, like at the time of the appointment. Four times, and I was so fucking sick of it. And the last time she did it, she just ghosted me fully gone. And then her name was like, Amanda or something like that. And then six months later, this is how fucking I kept that in the back of my head. And I sent out a message going, hey, Amanda, congratulations. You've. You've. You've won 12 months free training at the gym. And then she was like, oh, great. And I was like, just confirming this is Amanda such and such with a different last name. And she was like, oh, no. And I was like, oh, sorry, wrong Amanda. Good. Good to know you get my numbers. Good to know you get my messages, though. That was like. That was the most petty thing I've ever done in sales. So there you go. It was when I was selling fitness for eight hours a day. And I used to get really, really emotionally tied into the sale because the way that I saw was super combative. So I was always having to go through, like, mental and emotional boxing matches with people to get them to sign up. These days, like, I have no fucks to give about the outcome of the call because the way that I sell is far more chilled and relaxed. So it doesn't bother me anymore if I sell someone. If I don't sell, I'm like, oh, cool, that's cool, man. Like, whatever. I just do my process and go from there.

I'll one up you that this is funny. And you're aware of it because you were there at the time. We had a gym together. We'll do some sales. This guy booked in no show, you know, super keen. Booked in no show again.

Is this the guy across the road?

No. That's a funny one. This guy was a tattoo artist. We called him.

He's like, sorry, he was so rude, man.

Yeah, I remember. I had the conversation with him. I go, does this happen to you often as a tattoo artist? Like, how valuable is your time when someone books in and they don't turn up for you to tattoo them? And they've booked out six hours? He's like, oh, yeah, I never really thought about it that day. So he goes, look, I'm really sorry. Let's just do it. I'll book in a session with you. So, you know a third time he knows, doesn't answer the calls later.

Just imagine the mindset of, like, being like, yeah, and then just not turning up, like, yeah, what a dick.

And because he agreed that that was an asshole thing to do anyway, so a week later, I called him off a different number and booked in eight hours to get a tattoo done with no deposit.

Tom Petty.

And then he called me, he's like, hey, where are you? I'm like, oh, it's a dick move, isn't it? I'm the guy from the gym. Single head asshole.

That's some Tom Petty shit. That's what happens when you're in your early 20s selling fun.

But sometimes like you just gotta get a win back to kick your head.

Again just for content. Fuck. We used to do a lot of selling. It was an overwhelming amount of selling that we had to do. And we were told, we were taught such a bad way, such a bad way of selling that it just made us bitter. Which is why as soon as I discovered the ADPQ and Jeremy miners method, it just changed my, my way of being because I could sell in such like a more zen out place. It was relaxed and calm and like I haven't had an interaction, like a negative interaction with a prospect in such a long time.

Yeah, and you're not that typical pushy salesman anymore. Where the type of sales that we were taught to do once they created.

They to be fair, they created those problems.

Exactly right.

We just didn't realize it at the.

Time because you are that guy that people hate to be on the phone with when you're taught to sell in that way. I get that now.

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that was a long time ago in the sales game. Which brings us to our next, which is the two next ones that we need to go through is logistical and fear based objections. And I'll talk real quickly about the idea pitfalls of identifying each because and then we'll go into each one. But this is the one where if you make a mistake, you'll piss somebody off. And it's not even if you're like, you can be nice and polite and all that kind of stuff. But as someone. This is where most junior salespeople miss out on all their sales and why their follow up game sucks. Because they assume that all objections are mindset objections because they're taught that from like shitty coaches. So many people just ram mindset down people's throats and like sometimes there is a genuine logistical objection and you have to overcome that together and you've got to both be on board and you've got to get the right amount of buy in because if you treat it as a fear based objection and you come to me when I'm ready to buy, I want to do it. I just have to like, like, let's say I Had to run it by James. Like I had to. Like we had that agreement. He didn't even know I was in the call. If you then try and beat me over the head with a mindset bat, I'll just tell you to fuck off, dude. I have to do this, you know, and be like, okay, but like, why do you always make decisions like that? Like, are you happy with where you are? And it's like those questions are fine to ask as long as they're asked the right way. But you have to be able to identify a genuine logistical objection because if you handle like it's a fear based objection, you're going to lose that. So every time. Which is why I think it's the main reason why people are not successful in follow up sales is because they're bad at identifying logistical and they're bad at identifying fear.

Yeah. And they push people to the point where they don't want to do it now because you've come off cross as an asshole. It's like money from a logistical. Sometimes people don't have checks cleared and they're like, no, we need to take a deposit today. It's like, well, no, I'm waiting on a check to come in. I'll have the money there. You can send me the payment links and I'll pay it when the money arrives in my account tomorrow. But if you keep trying to push me to take a deposit today when I've told you that that's not an option, give me the link, I'll pay tomorrow. Sometimes that's actually true and it happens and depending on the.

It's a fine line to walk. You know, you have to be able to, you gotta be able to chunk it down the right way.

Exactly.

So that people understand what you're doing. Don't ever use the bullshit. Oh, this is to hold your place. Everybody knows that's a, it's, it's so stupid. I'm very honest when I say that. I go, hey man, the reason why I want to do that is because it's an emotional commitment. It's a commitment to you, it's a commitment to me that you're driving forward and that you're doing that like when you go to bed tonight, you're doing the most that you can do to get the outcomes that you want. Now there's definitely two ways to proceed. We can do it that way or we can do it the way where, you know, we do it your way and we do move forward. It's just one of them allows me to know that, like you're truly committed to the process. That's really all it is. There's no fake scarcity or anything like that here. It's just I know that if you give me your credit card details today and we start moving forward, even if we take that payment tomorrow, say, fine, I know that, like, yes, sweet, I can tick that box and this guy's good to go. He's going to start asap. Other than that, like a lot of the times what tends to happen is it can get pushed out by a day, a week, a month, or even a year because stuff just kind of gets in the way. And when you're motivated to do something, sometimes it's best just to kind of jump in rather than just walking into a cold, like one step at a time, get to your balls and then kind of run back because it's cold. Right. So you want to be able to identify that. So like with a logistical objection. So first of all, one of the main ways that you identify if it's logistical or fear is the open wallet test. If somebody is not willing to put down a credit card number, even if there's no deposit, they're not willing to do something, some level of commitment, chances are you're dealing with a fear. Because even if it's like, ask a business partner, like, hey, would you mind if you explain, do you mind if we sort of put some sort of commitment down today? We don't have to take any money. What we do is just grab your credit card details. We schedule a deposit for 24 hours. That gives you enough time to do XYZ. If anything happens during that period, you can always back out. That's obviously not a problem. That just kind of lets us know that you're committed to the process and you know that you're doing everything you need to do now. A lot of the time, if it's a genuinely just objection, that's perfectly reasonable. It's fine, you can get a small deposit or you can get a credit card number and you can process it the next day, whatever. But that open wallet test, so if they're like, no, no, no, I just really want to wait, I need to check a few things out. A lot of the time when you ask that, it'll go deeper. And then, so you need to start to think, oh, okay, is this actually a fear based objection? No, you know, and then you've got to handle them a different way. So with logistical. Let's go into that. So what is a logistical objection? Logistical objection is Someone who wants to do it. So the first thing you have to do is identify that they want to do the program. There is just a obstacle in the way that is stopping them from committing to doing it.

What are some of these obstacles?

It could be money. They might not have the cash for it there. And then sometimes we have to send people to funding. Like I've gotten commitments from people, like I take a credit card, I'm going to schedule a 10% deposit in two weeks time. In between now and then you're going to get the funding. Basically you're going to make it work. And sometimes they come three times, sometimes they don't. But if they don't have the cash, that's how you have to do it. The other thing could be a partner. So it could be like a time a partner. The third thing could be, it can't be fucking anything. A genuine logistical objection like, dude, I really want to do this. There is, this isn't, this is in the way. So how can we overcome. So the first, first thing you have to do is establish this is, with any logistical objection is establish the want to do the program. So hey man, if you had the money, if your partner was here, if you had more information, would this be the right move for you? Yes. Okay. Do you mind telling me why? Sweet. Okay, so we do that, we establish the want. Now we're on the same side of the table. Once you're on the same side of the table, then it's really just about walking them through a problem solving process that ends in a highest level of commitment. And that highest level of commitment is whatever the highest level commitment you can achieve without pushing them to the edge, to where they think that you think about the sale more than you think about their best interest.

And that's a tough one to do. Is there a way that you can explain that as in how you do that or is it really just a. You need to be in that moment to feel what it's like and it comes from experience to make that call. Or do you have like a hard rule of when is too much, when is enough.

If you're going down the line and you're getting very agreeable statements and they're sort of working with you on the. Going deeper and talking about it. And if they're like engaged with you, then chances are it's going to be fine and you can sort of go down that road. As soon as they start sort of pulling back a bit, then you can see that like, okay, there's a bit of resistance happening here. Their word usage becomes more short, their tone changes. Then that's when you want to just schedule the follow up.

Okay, so you're basically looking for like non verbal cues as well as tonality.

Yeah, tonality. Body language and like the shortening of sentences to just answering the minimum they can answer at the time.

How long do you think it took you to be able to distinguish that of when he's pushing them? When's not like as a salesperson in their career? Like how long did it take to develop the skills to actually know, oh, I've pushed this guy too far. Those little changes and sentences that I've noticed equal this.

Well, it's hard because I didn't care until like 18 months ago.

Echo.

So I didn't really care about that because I was just. The way I used to sew is just they either buy or they hang up. Yep, fair enough. Which is probably, I would say, the most common form of sales out there. It's like the cardone way of selling. So like the cardone way of selling is pitch early objection handle.

Yep.

That's also like Gulliver Ja's way of selling. Super effective. It just creates, in my opinion, it creates like a more transactional client.

Yep.

Because you're sort of objection handling, which is why let you take example. You take one of the. I won't name the business. Take one of the businesses that we recently took over their sales team. So one of our services is like sales team management. So we just take your existing team and then we manage them. Right.

Make them better.

Yeah, they had like 15,000 ex leads of which had all booked in calls and all this kind of stuff and like they were doing auto dialing on that. So because they had like 18,000 people. Because their sales process was so aggressive and they used to. Their objection handling style literally was mandated. You objection handle until they hang up or buy.

That's it.

And they created so many enemies that like they had 15,000 leads that were all literally worthless.

You know what's something that I've learned recently and was teaching some of the guys is finding out what it's like to be on the other side of the phone. Because you would fucking hate that process. You wouldn't feel good. Why would you want to deliver that process consistently to other people?

Yeah, it's weird, right? I've never experienced having to be objection handled because I've never had an objection because I don't get on the phone unless I want to buy it.

Yeah, yeah.

And most people Don't. Objection. Handle. It's bizarro. That was hilarious. Trying to stifle a yawn.

I will not let you win. That's funny.

Yeah. So I went to giftology and then did a sales call with them and they just. I just wasn't really happy with what they provided. It was just like, kind of like mundane. So I was like, oh, okay. She's like, okay, so I'll send you an email. It's quite funny. The psychology was like, she went for the email, which is like, okay, all right. You could try and close me, but no, I'm didn't. Yeah, she didn't even try. So I was like, okay. And then I like, don't even know if I got the email because, like, it just didn't seem. I was like, I can just buy the book or they can charge you two and a half grand to do it for you. And then you got to pay for the gifts anyway. And to me, they just sounded like every normal, everyday gifts. It was just sort of the timing of it. It wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I thought they're going to be like, really bespoke. They research the person, they get them like a crazy gift, but that's not what it is. But anyway, just better off buying Mount blocks or Hermes bike. It's for people. People love that shit. The Hermes bank. Notice you don't know they're about four grand for a fucking throw rug.

Yeah, right.

It's a good point. Sort of going through and being. Being the prospect. But I haven't really. If I'm going to do something, like, if I do my own research, I get on there and it's basically like the salesperson would have to unsell me.

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Or the price would have to be stupid.

Yeah. And if that's the case, I just say it. I just say, dude, I'd love to do it. There's just no physical way that I can afford that right now. But at the moment I can. Like, I'm all in. Like, what can you do for me? And it's just like, I don't need to be overcome. Like, it's not a mindset thing. I'll smash through the wall. I just need to figure out how to make it work, which is what I actually, you know what? I was. Objection handled. When I went to site. This is ages ago. Isr. This is ages ago. Before we had any money. They put me through a sales process and it was okay. I was sort of. I gave them Objectives to see how well they overcame them. But they just went straight to follow up, which was a bit weak. But they didn't really try and close me very hard. But the guy followed up with me for ages. That was good. He was that good. But yeah. So identify the logistical. That's basically. And then we've gone through logistical. Some ways that you can handle that and some of the knife edge stuff like just make sure it doesn't spill into fear. Now, fear based objections are the fun ones. That's when it's like, it's fun to overcome fear based objections because it is like a block or a mindset thing or it's like someone's decision making process is broken to the point where it's held them back and we get to help them identify that and actually start to move forward in a more productive way. They're my favorite ones to encounter. And I actually did a core review just the other day of a sales call that I did for Jeremy's program. Shout out to Jeremy Minor if you want to get sales trained by him. Let me know, I'll sell you into it. The guy had a mad. He came onto the call straight away and was like, okay, I just want to find out what the price is and what the investment is and how it works. I was like, no worries, man, we'll go through all that. At this stage though, it might be more appropriate to find out more about you and what you sell to see if what we do might even work. Would you be cool with that? And then he was super closed off the whole call. Really nice guy, good dude, super closed off. And then I went into like. I basically decided to pitch early because what I was doing wasn't really getting through to him. So I was just like, okay, I'll pitch early and Objection. Handle. Because I can be a bit more. More fluid and raucous with how I. Objection handle than what I can do in a script. Yeah. And so I went through to him and basically like, okay, I just want to think about it. I always think about it. And I was just like, okay, well, okay. So you saying you need to check your finances is two objections. It's a logistical objection and it's a fear objection. It's all around money. So you're saying you need to check your finances, but if I was to ask you right now, down to the dollar, how much money you have in the bank, you'd probably tell me. Yep. If I was to ask you how much money is coming in next week, you could probably tell Me under the dollar. Right? Sweet. So really we don't check our finances. It's just a really roundabout appeal to something that we can't do right now. Way of giving a money objection. But because it's presented like that, it's a fear based money objection. And it's less logistical because otherwise you would have just told me, I really want to do it, I don't have the funds. That's a logistical objection which is easy to overcome because we can get funding and we can do all that kind of stuff. So what I'm going to do is the fear based stuff. And he was like, okay. And so I was actually walking him through this pretty much step by step because it was a sales training call. I could do this and I could kind of break the fourth wall and I could take him through it. So I was like, okay, so now what we have to do is I have to establish the want to do it. So I was like, if you had the money right now, would this be the answer for you? He's like, yes. Can you tell me why? So now we get on the same side of the desk and he's like, okay. I'm like, so you see what I did there? Now I got us on the same side. So now we need to find a way to move forward together. He's like, okay. And so I was like, now it's just a perspective shift. So now we have to take you away from making decisions based off where you are to making decisions based off where you want to be. Because there's a level of fear that's stopping you from making decision that you have said is in your best interest and give detailed as to why it is.

Yeah, absolutely right.

Which is really important. He's decided it's in his best interest. So if he's decided that, how can he not move forward? Doesn't make any sense. So it's got to be fear based because he's like, oh shit. Like, what if it doesn't work? What if I don't get it right? What if it does work with some people? Well, what if this works and I make more money and I'm still fucking unhappy? You know, you get that in fitness a lot, especially with chicks or like with single people actually. What if I lose weight and I still don't get a partner? What if it's me and not how I look?

I think that usually stems down to particularly in fitness is it's not necessarily all the fear is I'm afraid that even if you give me everything I won't actually do it.

Yeah, but then even going deeper than that, what if it works? And what if it's just me and it's not the fact that I'm 40 kilos overweight, which is why I don't have a partner, why my life isn't where it wants to be, why I don't get promotions. That's a, that's a real thing with a lot of people.

So you come to that, like, self realization that there's something drastically wrong with yourself. And facing that gives you the fear because it's easier just to continue with your life and never address it. Because then a problem.

If you look at being overweight, like, being overweight can stop you from doing a lot of things. But if you can use that as a crutch and be like, well, I can't do that because I'm overweight. If you're not overweight anymore, now you have to face the fact that maybe you just don't want to do, or you don't do that. You can do these things. So it takes away a barrier that a lot of people use as a crutch. Same with, like, not being good at sales or whatever. Like, I just haven't found the right sales technique yet. And that's where my business isn't, where I'm at. If I just find that one thing, If I just find that one thing. And so what if you found that one thing? Go, fuck. What if it's the fact that I suck a legion, I'm not very good at delivery, or this or this or this or this. Like, what if it's just not going to happen for me? So fear of success and fear of failure are very similar. Creep in. So what we have to do is get people to sort of understand their own objections. And we have to understand it. So someone comes at us with, I need to check my finances. I'm thinking, okay, let's think about it. That's also money. Okay, well, let's identify it. And if it is money, which it always is, a money objection is a part of an objection. Is a money objection. I think about objections, a money objection. They're all money objections. Right. So once we identify that and we can chunk it down though, and we can go, okay, this all makes sense now. And we can start to do some perspective shifts. And we can do that through stories, analogies. We'll link to the lot. One of the last podcasts that we talk about that stories and analogies, we go quite in depth. So I won't touch on that again because you can just listen to that podcast. But, you know, you can start to really reframe the way that somebody thinks by allowing them to have a perspective shift from thinking of where they are to thinking to where are they acting like who they want to be. It's like that identity framework. Right. Are you the guy that does X?

Yeah.

And that's really how you essentially overcome a fear based objection. You know, that's. That's how you identify it, that's how you work through it. And there are slightly different ways to do it for think about it, money and partner, which we'll go through in depth when we go through the Y axis podcast. Yeah, cool.

So just as like a summary there, give us like the brief summary on the difference between smokescreen logistical and fare.

Yeah, for sure. So we have smokescreen, which is like, you know, you're selling fish, they want beef. And we haven't identified the prospect. Like they're not our target market. We failed. Yeah, we failed from a marketing and a sales point of view to establish enough need or want from the prospect to really want to take our offer seriously. That's what it is. So it could be a pipeline person, whatever. Right. Logistical is being able to identify the fact that there is actually something in the way which is a fair enough genuine reason, not an excuse, a reason why they cannot move forward entirely on that day. And it's up to us as salespeople to identify it and help them put in place strategies to overcome that and then pipeline that person to where we make the sale as soon as possible.

Yep.

Okay. And then a fear based objection is where a person has a broken thought process over making decisions around that particular part of their life, whether it be fitness, whether it be money, whether it be relationships, whether it be whatever, wherever you're selling, they don't have the necessary perspective and ideas and thought patterns to be successful in that way. And there's something inside them holding them back from something that they feel is within in their best interest. And you feel it in their best interest and will help them move forward. So it's up to us as salespeople to give them a perspective shift to allow them to overcome that fear. Because that's basically like 90% of overcoming objections.

Cool. Okay. Yeah. Awesome podcast. And you know, if you want to learn more about that, there'll be a link to be able to download our objection handling matrix in the show notes and any of the other good places. I think that's probably all we have for today. Matt, unless you've got anything you want to add on there. Sounds like a place to start.

Yeah. Make sure you check out the YouTube channel. It's Matt Rider. We'll leave a link in the, in the, in the description of the podcast as well, because I'll be doing an in depth video on the logistical, the fear, and all that kind of stuff. So make sure you check it out. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Make sure you leave a review. Check us out on Facebook under Sales Sniper, Inc. Check us out on Instagram Sales Sniper Official. And check us out on YouTube under Matt Ryder.

Awesome, guys. Thanks for listening and have a good day. I hope. Or have a good night. I hope all that yawning helped you get to sleep.

Yep, exactly. Put that coffee down.

Coffee's for closers only.