The Secret to Building the Perfect Sales Call Structure

Hey guys. What's up? Matt and James here. Welcome to the episode of Coffee is foreclosures.

How we going, guys? Hope we're all having a good day.

Exactly. Exactly. So today what we're going to talk about is role plays. Different things that you can do as a sales rep to help your structure just get better. Really, so you can make more sales. So if you like this one, make sure you, like subscribe, hit the notification bell. All that kind of good stuff on YouTube or wherever it is you're listening to this. But cue the intro.

If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat, will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode. You listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this, you listen and review.

Put that coffee down.

Yeah. And for reference, we are talking about role players in the sense for you to get better at sales more, not role play like the type you like to do.

Yeah.

So comment below if you'd like to see that as another episode. Maybe we can work something out.

Yeah, I have to get the 8K camera out for that one.

Yeah.

So we can zoom in on you.

Nice.

Well, anyway, if it's your first time here. Copies for closers.

Is that your first time here? I hope you've enjoyed it and we'll see you.

I will see all your future successes. No, so what we do is we talk all things sales. We run a business called Sales Sniper where we do done for you, sales for people like Ryan Serhant and Jeremy Minor Bradley, a few other choice people that you've heard of and some you probably never haven't, some you probably never will. Okay, so how do we develop salespeople? Like what are things that you can do to get better? Role playing being one of them, however, doesn't want to be the only thing you do and you want to do it in a very particular way. And there's some ways that you can make things better.

Yeah, I think like the first thing to do is actually recognize what your lowest hanging fruit is. Whether that structure, objection handling tonality, etc, etc, etc.

Right.

Then as you go in and you organize someone to role play with or maybe you join the closing code and do some of the role plays there.

Wait a second, the closing code, what's that?

Oh yeah, that's right.

We've got.

Maybe you want to talk about the.

Closing code program that we have 40 minutes little program that we have where you actually get six role plays a week. Right. $50 a week, $25 for the first week. Actually we actually role play with a coach. Plus you get access to essentially what is a version of our staff portal. Yeah, that's what the closing code is. The link will be in the description wherever it is. You're listening to this or watching this. If you want to sign up that first week, 25 bucks, cancel anytime and there you go. So that's the way you can role play. All right guys, it's been fun. Thanks very much for tuning in role plays.

Right?

Yeah. So the reason why we developed the closing code actually is because we were such a big believer in role plays that we wanted to develop a role play group for our sales reps and have one of our senior members run, run it. So we were like, well, we're going to be doing this anyway. The more people that are in it, the better. But we have to pay people for it. And you know, and we're like, well, we have a staff portal as well and we can build that out. So let's monetize these things that we use to make our staff as good as what they are and then that, that can be like a good little cycle to get people one in to come work for us. Because if someone does really well in the roleplace, probably going to offer them something.

Yeah.

Flag them to be offered a position. The second thing is that like we just like developing sales reps because. And it's, it's super cheap for a reason. Like we don't really make money on it, but we probably don't lose money on it. But again, it's a great, it's there.

To pay for itself.

It's a great position for us to be known as the guy who has the greatest sales training course for the cheapest money.

Yeah.

Like if you're looking for bang for buck, it's about as good as it gets. And then going up from there like a good stepping stone. Things like any PQ for the guys who like they're just starting out, they don't have the money to put 4 or 5, 6, 20, 15 grand on sales training. So they can come into the closing code. They can do that for three or four months. Then if they like it and they want to go more in depth, they can go into something like an NDPQ or a 3.0 or 3.0.

You get access to closing code as well. So sign up for that.

Yeah.

If you want to do a Little pitch on that too.

Yeah.

You know, NPK 3.0, we do tonality training. We do. Objection. Handling training. We do role plays. You get access to the NPK portal.

Yep.

And then I do a session every single week as well. Of Q and A. Yeah. So there you go. Which is something I don't do in the closing code.

You did quite a bit of role playing there as well, right?

Yeah. So like I sort of run any PQ 3.0 and jam your runs in a circle.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

So it's a good sort of stepping off point. But I think role play is a great thing. One of the things that I get the guys to do in the NEPQ 3.0, role plays, because again, it's a little bit more advanced than the people who are in the closing code. And there are really good sales guys in the closing code too. But I look at it as like a stepping stone program. But some people just like the role plays because they're experienced and they don't want to do anything else. Yeah, but I get people to sell things they don't sell. So let's say the person is a coaching consultant salesperson. I'll get them to sell water filtration systems. So the reason why we do it is one, because I do that and I can sort of chop and change between anything pretty seamlessly now. But the only reason why I can do that is because I've taught so many different types of selling that now I can do it. But also I use the exact same process. So I understand the process so well that it really allows me to just be able to kind of step into anything in anywhere. Now. It. What it forces me to do as a salesperson when I'm selling things that I'm not familiar with is it forces me to rely on process rather than just knowledge of the industry or default back to things that I would just ask because I have a knowledge of like sales or because I have a knowledge of marketing. And I'm selling marketing, all that kind of stuff. So it really takes away the technician side of things because you know, nothing like, so, you know, sold water filtration systems to a guy, like, trying to teach him how to sell it better. And he was like, that was amazing. I was like, I know nothing about water filtration systems, but the only reason why I'm able to do it well is because, you know, I just rely on the process. So it really makes people think outside the box and kind of go deep into the things that really matter in Selling instead of just getting caught on the hamster wheel of like, just entrenching themselves into being able to sell one thing.

Well.

Yeah. And if you can sell any, like, water filtration, mortgages, life insurance, whatever that is. Coaching and consulting. If you can do that off the cusp, like what you are selling your crusher. Because you understand. You have to understand the structure to such a high level.

Yeah.

To be able to replicate that in any instance.

Right. Yeah.

So that's like on Fridays, I do a role play with all the inner Circle and 3.0 guys.

Yeah.

And that is, like, it really lets them see what they're not good at.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I. So, like, I've been doing some of those role plays for probably like a year now. For the guys in the closing code, I just finished up and had one of our other guys jump on that. And what I would get, like, I'd always ask the questions to the guys to see, like, okay, well, what exactly are you looking feedback on for? Right. That way I can listen out specifically. Like, if they want help with tonality, then I'll listen out solely for tonality as opposed to structure. They just want general. I just listen general and give them advice. But I always sit there, take notes. It's really good when you've got someone that knows what they're looking for to actually, like, solely pinpoint what you're doing well and what you're doing wrong so that you become aware of problems that you didn't know existed. So you can go ahead and work on them.

Yeah.

And then when you've, like, found like, that lowest hanging fruit, then you just do role plays solely to get better at that one particular thing. You know, spend 70% of your time working on the lowest hanging through. Then spend another 30% of your time just working on general so you feel like you're doing more than what you actually are. And then once you've nailed that part, pick something else. Spend 70% of the time on that.

Get better. Get better. Get better. Yeah.

It's so easy.

Yeah. I think the. The biggest thing that I see for most people is that the first five minutes of the call sucks.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

That's probably how it's where I give most feedback. Most of the time when we go through a role play, the guys don't get past the first three or five minutes because there's just a lot of feedback that needs to be given in that time because they're just for most people. I think I've said this a Lot of times. But most people are not listening to the prospect. They're thinking about the next thing that they want to say.

Yeah, process.

Yeah.

And when you don't know your process well enough and you're constantly thinking about the next thing, then you miss out on most of the key information you're going to get from a prospect. And it's like when you, when you're talking to someone who clearly isn't listening to you and they're just waiting for their next opportunity to talk, that's what it's like. That's what most salespeople that I listen to, that that's what their biggest problem is. So their inner monologue is too loud. And so that's really exacerbated when you're selling something that you've never sold before. So you're not comfortable doing it. So you can't fall back into your word tracks that you've done tens and hundreds of times that kind of get you out of sticky situations. So because you have none of those developed for that product. So like it makes it very, very obvious that the person doesn't really understand the information that they're trying to get out of the particular phase, especially in the beginning.

So.

So the conversation goes off the rails very quickly and then once it's off the rails, it's really hard to get back.

Yeah.

You win or lose the first five minutes. Yeah, most. Majority of the time.

Yeah. I think the first few minutes of a call, like if you're listening to this and you're doing sales calls, really dial in that first few minutes for any pq. It's like the connection phase in the situation phase, which is like, what are they here. Here to talk about and what problem are they here to solve and then what are they currently doing about that problem to get that solution that is such an integral part of the sale because it sets up the rest of the conversation so well that if you don't get it right, it's like, you know, if I'm shooting at a thousand meters, right. And I, my, my. If I'm shooting at 100 meters and my barrel is off by a millimeter, I'll miss that target by a centimeter. Right. So it's like goes from here to here, which isn't a big deal, but if it's, if that same barrel position at a thousand meters is a one, it's a one meter miss, which is obviously a pretty big miss. Right. So we need to keep that into account where we, at the beginning of the call we have to be very precise, Very, very, like, very, very targeted in how we do things. And then as the call progresses, like, we can sort of allow it to take some. Few more, you know, peaks and troughs.

Yeah, like, it's. It's okay to go off.

Yeah.

Off track as long as it's productive. Well, it's okay to go off script and off structure provided you get into the right place. There's just many different ways you can.

Go about, but it's rarely productive to do it off, like, at the beginning.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And so, like, that's what a lot of the stuff we do in role play. So, like, role playing specific sections of the script is really important. Role playing, like, a lot of people will role play, like, and the prospect will be quite easy, and it's like, they'll give you a lot of things. So you want to have difficult prospects. When you role play, there's no point doing anything that isn't harder than a normal sales call.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So you. You want to, like, all of your, like, when you're very first starting, have your prospects just be totally normal so you can just get used to doing something in the same way that you would go to a gym. You wouldn't load up max weights when you first start. And you kind of, you know, you got to challenge yourself, but you got to get in there smart.

I always, like, ask people's experience, like, you know, how much actual experience do you have? And then you relay that to whoever's playing the prospect, like, okay, it's pretty new. Go easy on him. Yeah, right. If it's someone more advanced, it's like, big or whatever that is, Right?

Yeah.

It's funny, like, I see a lot of guys as well, they probably sell better in person, and they come onto the roleplays because they get so nervous. They're in a group full of 30 people being cheap, judged, and critiqued and given feedback that they suck way worse. And I always say to them, it's like, hey, man, bro, if you can't bring it here, how are you gonna bring it on sales call? Do you have any, like, tips to get comfortable enough doing that in front of people so you can actually get good?

What I always say is, like, you're here to learn. So, like, if you're gonna, this is the best place to do it.

I'd rather up on a role play than when there's a thousand dollars on the line.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, just like, no one's gonna judge you for being like, Especially if you're like, okay, I'm new to this.

She always does. Only Judy can judge me.

Exactly. So, like, why do people listen?

It's unbelievable.

I don't know. People are bored.

Yeah, that must be it.

The moment Covid's gone, this thing's gonna tank.

Oh, for sure.

I hope it does.

Stop doing it. Anyway, back on track.

I don't know.

Yeah. So when you. When you start role playing with somebody, like, you want to kind of the degree of difficulty, I think, should be ramped up harder than a normal sales call. And then from there, like, you want to make sure that you role play the entire process and then the objection handling as well. But really you can work on certain parts of it and just kind of go over and over and over again to, like, really smash out the first part of the call, have the person, you know, give you different bits of feedback and be a different type of prospect for different, you know, stages and try and war game that. And I think, like, then you get the objection handling. You know, you want to go through four or five different objection handling cycles to be able to make sure that, like, you can. You can just. You can keep pushing hard enough to where you get the sale, but, like, it's just you. You want to. You just want to, like, be two or three levels above where you are.

Yeah.

I like when people are specifically trying to work on objection handling, they're more experienced. Get them to start objection handling it and then say, stop, start again. You know how to use the same words you did?

Yeah.

Not like, can't use any of the same words. It's just like. And why do you think that's important now? It's like, you can't say that as a phrase.

Right? Yeah.

Well, that's something.

Start again, start again, start again.

So I don't know if it was Will that developed it. Yeah, maybe that, that game, we used to play it a lot, and we still do play it.

Oh, yeah.

When we have, like, our team meetings, which is where you have to ask a question which is like, okay, has that had an impact on you? And you go back and forth in different ways. In different ways, but you can't say it again.

So, like, has that had an impact on you?

Yeah.

Is that affecting you in any way?

Yeah.

And then, like, you know, I would say, say when he would say one, but we can't say the same thing more than once. And so, yeah, like, it's a very. It's a conversational flexibility exercise which I highly recommend you try it's very difficult, especially when you first start. It gets a little bit easier as you get better at it. But it sort of keeps your mind thinking because sometimes you have to ask a prospect the same thing four or five times. You can't ask it the same way. So you have to ask it in different ways so they kind of have that moment like, oh, okay, I understand what it is you're saying now.

Yeah.

Because some, sometimes it's. You don't articulate correctly. A lot of the times people just don't listen.

Yeah.

Or comprehend what you're trying to ask. So it really helps.

Yeah, exactly. So those are some of the keys to role plays. You know, some of the places that we recommend doing role plays. First of all, like I wouldn't recommend you role playing with like if you're a new sales guy and it's just like the two of you and you're brand new, don't like, don't the two of you just go and start role playing with each other because like it's not going to be super productive. You want to same as in the gym. You want to role play with someone better than you.

Right.

So they can actually give you some sort of feedback that makes sense. Whether it's a coach or not is one thing, but someone who actually has some experience. So one of the best ways that you can do that is you can go to someone on your team who's successful and offer to do like their, you know, back cleanup for them. Right. So be like, hey, if you can do some coaching with me or if you can do some. Yeah, I'll do follow ups for you if you can spend, you know, two hours a week doing role plays. Me and give me some feedback. That's one way. The closing code is another way. I'm not gonna lie. It's super cheap.

Yes.

$50 Aussie per week. Like you're not gonna find cheaper than that anywhere. I priced that for a reason. It's an absolute no brainer. And you'll get access to a role play literally every day. Like you see it's six days a week. There's probably three or four days a week that work in your time zone on depending depending on where you are. So like if you want to role play with a coach and other people who are trying to get better for an hour at a time for 50 bucks a week, let's say you come three times a week plus you get the portal, you're paying like 17. A role play session.

Yeah, we have a lot of Guys that don't actually role play, they just come on to listen other people do it. Yeah, yeah, it's I. One of the, the biggest things is like as a warning for when you do role plays, if you're just finding people because we get heaps of people post up in our groups, like, anyone want a roleplay partner here or there? Just be careful who you're getting feedback off because if they're giving you bad feedback, like you're going to teach that to you and learn bad habits. Yeah, like, yeah, that meeting with that, that YouTube superstar the other day and you went, and he's like, why would I implement any of this? None of it makes any sense. Yeah, same thing with sales. Someone says, oh, you need to set an agenda. Like that's bad advice.

Yeah, exactly. And so you want to work of a philosophy. So once you figure out the philosophy, let's say Dan Locke's consultative selling is your philosophy. Or let's say using more traffic and funnels, whatever, you know, we train half of them. Let's say you're using the straight line persuasion model, right? Like you want to find someone who's adapted and implemented that effectively so that you can role play. Because if you come to me with like, say you're selling like pure straight line persuasion style, like I'll understand what you're doing, but I disagree with the methodology somewhat, right? So I'll give you feedback that will change the methodology because I would, I would give you feedback along my methodology, right? So now needs to say that like I think it's, I've done all of them, so I think my way is the best way. But obviously it's my way. So who doesn't think that their way is the best way? If I was talking to Jordan Belfort, I'm sure he would say his way is the best way. Right? But you know, a lot of ways, any way done effectively will work, right? But like, so you want to make sure that you kind of got that methodology. And like for me it was NEP Q. So I'd done, I'd done a fair few sales courses. Most of them were down more of the hard selling line. And that's how I did things. When I learned any pq, I was like, oh, this is a much better way of doing things. And that's kind of where I went. So now like I have an understanding of those hard selling methodologies but I know the pitfalls. So I can give feedback to someone wants to use that style and how to make it better. But normally I'm going to go, hey, listen, this, this is a better methodology. Just learn this way of doing things. So find someone who has a similar selling style to what you want to have at the end of the day and who you think is successful and then pay them or do something for them for them to be able to teach you. Because like salespeople, their best time is spent selling. Like it took a long time for sales sniper to make enough money to where it bet it made sense for me to go take care of that.

Sales car off sale.

Yeah. Because me and Marco don't sell.

Yeah.

And we're the best sales guys in Sales sniper. So it's like for us to not sell, we still sell, we just sell different stuff. But we're not like on the phones like traditionally selling. We're selling more B2B or we're doing our own services and stuff like that. Right. So. And we coach our guys and then we coach people. So it took a long time to get that. But generally speaking, those salespeople you're going to be learning off like they're successful salespeople people, so they make money. So therefore you're going to have to figure out an exchange of value to be able to get enough time in their diary to make it make sense for them to actually teach you. Because essentially like if they teach you and you're on the same like sales team, they're just training their own competition. Right. So that's kind of, it's kind of the way it's broken down. So come up with a unique value proposition or pay someone like us or go to seventh level and go, I actually want to invest in myself for sales training. I think of crazy. Some stat where it's like the average sales guy in the US only invests like 77 a year into their. No wonder they don't make any money.

Let's see. I remember you said this the other day what the average wage was for.

Oh, in Australia.

Yes.

Well, it's different. Right. In the states it's around 40 odd thousand a year.

It's low. No wonder they're only spending 77.

Made like double that last month. Yeah, more actually, but anyway. But I also spend a lot more money.

Money.

So if you took that 77 a year and multiplied it like I was probably spent, I don't know, over like a 15 year sales career. I must have spent 3 or 400,000 at least on.

At least 77 a week on coffee.

Yeah, well, because I'm closing, bro.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Which is Also an investment on closing. It is for closers, apparently.

Yeah.

Did you know that I can subscribe here?

Yeah.

And cologne as well?

Well, yeah.

Sales Panther.

Sales Panther. 60% of the time. You close every time. Using hashtag salespanther Comment hashtag salespanther. If you're still listening and if you're.

A cultured man who likes to smell good, maybe we have something interesting coming.

Maybe we have a shop, maybe we don't on the way. We'll see. But those are our top tips for follow up. I don't really feel like we need to go any further into that. No top tips for follow up. Those are our top tips.

Get role playing.

Right.

Get role playing, guys. Get out there. Challenge yourself on the role plays. Make sure that you're role playing with people who actually know what they're talking about. Create a value proposition for someone or join something like the closing code or one of the NEPQ programs. And make sure that you put yourself in a position to where you're actually like when you get into a sales call, you feel comfortable enough to where you can handle most situations that you're dealing.

Yeah.

And if you need to buy a sexy police outfit to do it, then just do it. Get it done. The role playing will make you better.

Exactly. All right, guys, thanks. Make sure you like subscribe notification, but all that kind of good stuff. And we'll see you later.

Bye.

Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.