The Secrets To Becoming A Top 1% Sales Reps(LIVE TRAINING)
Matt Ryder, CEO of Seventh Level, walks through the NEPQ 3.0 sales methodology in a live training focused on the commitment phase. He works through scripts with participants to show how top 1% reps close deals differently.
Hey guys, what's up? Matt here, CEO of seventh Level. This is a little bit of a different podcast. What we're going to be doing is taking you through an actual training session that we do for our 3.0 members. So it's not our advanced inner circle sort of entry level programs is our mid, you know, more flagship kind of program called NEPQ 3.0. So I'm going to be diving deep in a couple of different things, but really specifically around the commitment phase and then just the entire NEPQ process as I've been teaching this to them in my school, sort of weekly deep dive in every single part of it and I kind of go through each phase one by one. So it's a little bit of different content for you. I hope it gives you some insights and context and what it's like to be a part of our training programs, but also what it's like to have one of our trainers in your business if you're someone who has a large team. So we hope you like it. Make sure you like, subscribe. If you're on YouTube and all that kind of stuff, hit the notification bell. But we really hope that you guys like and get something out of this program. A little bit of a debrief before we kind of get into some of the questions. So over the last few months, those who've been here for that long, we have been going over the NEPQ process from kind of top to bottom. Last week we went over the present state presentation phase and this week what we're going to be covering is the commitment phase. It's a pretty short phase, so I'll cover it quickly. The sort of if, ands, whys, not to do's and not to do's. And then from there we'll go through questions that pertain to the that and then the entire process.
Right.
So I'll start with a quick recap of the process itself because I can see an awful lot of new faces.
Right.
So hopefully most of you guys know this because you've gone through your portal like good little boys and girls. However, I will assume that you have not. We've got the essential stages of any pq.
Okay?
These stages are the stages that the prospect needs to go through in order to tickle the boxes that you guys are going to require for to have the highest likelihood of getting a sale, right? Which is these are not to do in one call or 10 calls or like whatever. This is just the journey the prospect has to go through in order to put them in a buying state. So you mold this. These phases to the process that you use, or you manipulate your process a little bit to make it work. But the best thing to do in the beginning, when you're starting this, is not to change too many things and add too many variables as so to be able to not figure out what's working and what's not. So stage one, so is obviously connection phase. The point of connection phase is to kind of get the overarching goal and just sort of disarm the prospect. Get them to not feel like they're in a sales process. That's really important because everybody hates being sold, but everybody likes shopping with a friend. So that's kind of it, right? You want to figure out, like, what's the overarching goal? Like, what are we here for? What are you looking for? I'm here to get better at sales. For example, the next is situation, and that's really for their prospect to explore their current situation. It's not actually massively important for you as a sales rep, right, to understand that information. Because although it's interesting, if it goes too deep, it can be ultimately unproductive. I'll give you an example. I'm selling sales training. They start talking about the marketing, I don't care.
Right?
That's just going to be of detriment to me. Same way as if I'm selling marketing and they start talking about the efficacy of their sales team, it's probably going to be a detriment to me. So I don't really want to go too deep into it.
Right?
Those are problems that I cannot solve. I never want to talk about problems I can't solve. So the situation phase, what are they currently doing about the thing that they're here to talk about? Like, what are you doing to get better at sales? What are you doing to get more leads? What are you doing to protect your family in case something does happen to you? What are you doing to mitigate yourself from the rises in energy costs? Make sense? Then we go to problem awareness. What are the problems associated with that goal? So what are the things that you're seeing? I don't know how. I don't know what. You know what I mean? Like all the problems that are associated with them not being able to achieve that initial outcome that they're looking for. Now, it's important to denote that that initial outcome is not something that we're going to dive deep on. A lot of other sales training methodologies teach to dive deep on problems and solutions. Very early to try and really kind of borrow down there. The reason why I don't think that's optimal, not that I think it's bad, but I think it's optimal is because it's very hard to get the appropriate level of trust and vulnerability from a prospect that early on sales. So if I, and if you say take fitness for example, and I'm selling someone over the phone, like I've done roughly 11 to 12,000 times in my day, I've made about 11 to 12,000 fitness sales. Like if I was to speak to someone over the phone and they were like, yeah, I need to lose five to ten pounds, I can't see them.
Right.
Maybe they have to lose 150, but they don't feel comfortable telling me that over the phone. And then I dive deep on why 10 pounds is going to be life changing to them. And then I end up anchoring everything off a goal that is ultimately meaningless. Make sense?
Right?
That's not their fault. They're not a liar. Buyers are not liars. It's just bad salespeople asking questions too early. If I walk into an elevator and go, hey Miles, what's your relationship with your mother like? That's a weird thing to do and say, but if we get stuck in the elevator, maybe we get there. Okay, so problem awareness, really, that's what we're trying to discuss. What's the problem? How long has it been a problem? What's causing the problem, and what impact is that problem having? All right, those are the, those are the real four main pillars that you're trying to get. Then from there we use the rationale question to then transition into solution awareness. That's a bridging question. It's not really a problem awareness question or a solution awareness question. It's a bridging question that, that, that sort of conversationally bridges the gap between one or the other. Because you don't want to have like these jarring Q and A level experiences in a sales process where you're like, you've been talking about one thing and then you realize you're off track and you go, so anyway, you kind of pivot because you realize that you're trying to make a sale. So that rationale question also serves a few purposes and it's a very important question for everyone to get right. If you were to not adapt an EPQ entirely, which I think is probably not a bad move for a lot of people, especially in the short to medium term, you would add in rationale question, you would Add in consequence questions and that would probably create a significant increase in sales.
Right.
Because of what it does. So the rationale question is structured in a way that gets rid of a few objections. So what it's designed to do is designed to sort of get the prospect to ideate on what would happen if they continued on the logical conclusion. Like, what's the slippery slope of what they do? Just so I can see the rationale behind why you might be looking for, I don't know, like a better sales system and structure to actually make more sales. What's the main reason for doing it that way, rather than just taking more.
Calls for the newer people to the call. Right. That have just signed up in the last week or so. Why do you recommend that? Like, maybe not adapting an APQ in its entirety is recommended in the short to medium term.
Like, why?
Why only bits and pieces?
Yeah. So you're learning a methodology and you're learning a skill set. And skill sets take time to learn and adapt. Like throwing out what has been working. Like, like, let's say you're closing at 10%, it's still 10%, right? So if you then throw away all the elements and then start something new, even if it's far superior, your lack of skill set and understanding of that thing will cause you to close even lower or at the same as what you do now, which will mean that you'll become disheartened and frustrated very quickly. But in reality, like, that's just part of the process. So what you would do is you would assess, I think, some of the gaps that you have in your current process and what gaps an APQ can fill. So maybe you use highly assumptive languaging and you go, like, I cannot wait to help you pick the best policy for you and your family today.
Right?
Like, that would be a highly assumptive thing to say because, like, you don't know that you even can do that. Like, if we're talking about reality, what if they just don't tick the boxes and you can't do it?
Right?
So you'd say, hey, it looks like you're possibly, hey, it looks like you, you know, scheduled the quarter day to look at possibly getting some more protection for your family in case something does happen. How can I help?
Right?
So even just adopting a more, A less assumptive, more neutral languaging would be. Could be, maybe, might be, should be, you know, possibly. Maybe those things, they reduce sales resistance and they make the conversation easier, right? Then if you looked and realized, oh, I never really ask consequence questions, consequence questions that drive urgency, right? They create the juxtaposition of the want to move forward and the possibility of failure.
Right.
What happens if you don't do anything? You don't get a policy in place and God forbid something does happen to you over the next two days, two weeks, two months, two years, two decades, and you know, your wife is left with a mortgage that she can't pay, what happens then?
Right?
And just like the sheer asking of that question is going enough to make them think about what happens if they don't, which it gives them more motivation to move forward, right? I've got a gold medal I'm running towards and I've got a line I'm running away from. I will run faster, right? If you want to look at it in that way. So just adding that would be beneficial. You know, if you don't have any structure whatsoever, then what you would want to do is listen to a bunch of calls, figure out what subtle subconscious structure you do use, and then make sure that you're asking problem awareness questions, you're asking solution awareness, you're asking some consequence questions, and then from there you're presenting your pitch in a way that's concise and makes sense.
Right?
So. And you would just adapt more and more and more as you go. But would I recommend, like, hey, I've been making 20k a month for the last 5 years. I'm just going to throw everything away and do this. Like, I've not hit a level of arrogance yet where I would recommend that. I'm sure I will in the coming years. However, at this stage in my life, I'm not there yet. So that's an important thing for everyone to acknowledge. Don't just throw your shit out like it's a bad idea. If there's stuff that you do that works, keep doing it until you can figure out a better way to do it. Adapting what we do, I believe that we have the best method of selling. However, like, whatever makes you money is what you should do. So let's not get on our too high horse. So we've got the rationale question, right? So that's designed to kind of get rid of diy, have the person kind of tell you in very clear terms why the logical conclusion of what they're doing would never work. Just so I can understand why you guys want, I guess, a better process to get new recruits in and be able to actually hold those. Like, what's the main reason for wanting to stuff up your sales team that way or your HR department that way, instead of just like going through the traditional methods like what a lot of other companies do and just accepting the churn rate is. That's just what it is, you know, so like that you can kind of adapt it to whatever you want.
Right.
I only just said that because I was just training a recruiting guy. So then from there we got solution awareness and solution awareness, like for me personally, in my sort of style is where a lot of the selling is done because I very much like the future pacing and like the, the talking about goals, wants, needs, desires, all that kind of stuff. Like that's I think like where the highest level of persuasion can be, can be done. So what you really want out of solution awareness, what is the goal?
Right.
So you want to really dial in on that goal. So you take that goal like we talked about before in the fitness of 5 to 10, and then you would kind of ask if that's really what they want. And you try and stretch that goal. The key is to stretch it far enough to where it's kind of just out of reach.
Right, right.
But like not so far that it's unattainable.
Right.
Like if you're speaking to a company that wants to, you know, increase their lead, or you're speaking to a guy that just wants to protect his family through an insurance policy and you're like, you know, and then you start future pacing him on leaving $100 million for his kids, it's just like it's not going to happen. So like it's such a large goal that it becomes unattainable and then like the steps required in their mind are so vast and many that like there's just, it's just too terrifying to even start make sense. Like if someone, if I'm dealing with a super large weight loss client, like for example that needs to lose 400 pounds, I would reduce that to like 60 or 100.
Right.
Like get a really good first milestone that's going to be within the like initial engagement period that we're going to be talking about.
Right.
So it needs to be difficult but achievable can't be really easy because then it lacks urgency. So if their goal is like, you know, let's use a sales training goal, I want to get from 5 to 6k a month. Like that's just not enough. Like it's not enough to like tangibly change anything.
Right.
So that like it just doesn't work, you know, so you want to be able to push that Gap far enough and then from there, like, what are the, what are the tangibles that happen when we achieve the goal? Like, what are the outcomes? How is it different? Like, and that, that is ubiquitous across industry. Whatever it is. Like, there is a, when we solve the problem, achieve a solution, what are the differences? And then from there, if we can attach an emotion to the difference, that's when it starts to get super juicy. And that's when like salesmanship comes into play. Because if you're talking to someone who's like middle management, then like the sale might be like the recognition, like the outcome might be the recognition of them bringing in this initiative and what would that do for their career? Like, and that's why, like, there is always a sale to be made and there is always an emotional component. Because humans have to biologically feel something to do something. Like, it's just the way it works. You feel like putting your left shoe on first, you feel like eating pasta. Like it's an emotional response. And then you have an action that's associated with it. Then from there we move into consequence. So consequence of the solution. Awareness is like pushing the ball forward and future pacing out. And the consequence is the, is the opposite of that. So it's the, what happens if we stay in the same place, we keep doing the same things, we get the same outcome or potentially gets even worse or like, what are the actual ramifications of that? And how you talk about that is going to be dependent on what you sell. Like, if you're talking like more business business, you're like, what are the possible, have you considered the possible ramifications of not, you know what I mean? Whereas if you do more B2 more more B2C, you're like, well, like, what happens if you don't do anything? And there's a lot of tonal cues and all that kind of crap, but like, we're just talking about straight process here. Then from there, now that you've got the initial outcome, the situation, what they're doing about it, the problems associated with it. If they solve the problems, what would the solution be if they get that solution? Like, what happens if they don't? Then we have a really good area that we can play in. And then we go into our presentation, right? And then we go into our commitment. So our presentation wants to be no more than about 10% of the total sales cycle. The reason why from like a, like a scientific standpoint is because like, it's very easy to drop out of emotional state like, of like, more Creative emotional thinking state, but very hard to get back in. So like, let's just say you have a video editor or a songwriter and you tap that songwriter on the shoulder and go, hey, man, like, what software system are you using and how much does that cost? Thanks, bro. 21 minutes before he gets back into the state where his brain is like fully in that creative brain. That's the average human response, 21 minutes. So if you go from like this emotional sales process of which like all sales processes are more emotional than not, because you're digging into wants and needs like it's just what it is, then from there to go into a highly logistical pitch that is very numbers and detail focused, takes them out of that. And then when you ask for the money, you really want that emotional on your side. But by having a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation, you are doing yourself a massive disservice by all that good work and goodwill that you've put in throughout that sales process, you've now undone all of it.
Right?
So you need to figure out a way to keep the presentation, like not super detailed and logistical, but still provide all the information, which becomes the tricky part, Right. So you got to constantly remind them of the things that they're talking about throughout it. Now, our first pillar is all about a roadmap. So what we do is we kind of lay everything out. We do yada, yada, yada. Because you know how you said that like you were struggling with X, Y and Z and I think that was causing you to be, I think you'd said somewhat frustrated. Was that right? Yeah. Well, what did you mean when you said that? Ah, okay. Like that makes sense. Yeah. So what we do is we do this and that's designed to really kind of stop that frustration and make sure that you have a really, really good plan moving forward. Does that make sense? Okay, perfect. So then we do the presentation, do all that kind of stuff, and then we go into the commitment phase. The commitment phase is really, really simple, really, really basic. And it's really just about like getting that person to go through a series of questions that get them more bought in on the presentation. So the way that I would finish my pitch, go, does that make sense? You know, and then from there you can do like the investment, whether you do the investment, top or bottom, whatever, it's up to you. And you go like, okay, cool. So in order to kind of do all this and be able to actually put X, Y and Z together so that we can solve the problem of X, the funding required Is going to be this, right? Would that be appropriate? Or do you feel like this could be the answer for you? So that's our first commitment phase. Now we're not saying do you want to buy? Do you want to do it? How do you want to move forward? Do you want the red or the blue or the black or the white? The one of the two. We're not option closing them because they're not morons. Option closes, work on 4 year olds or people who are going to buy anyway. Not that the puppy dog close the option close, the Benjamin Franklin close.
Right.
Those things all work, right? You can buy the book 101 Ways to Close. Right. Or A Thousand One Ways to Close.
Right.
But they're just like, they just work on people who are going to buy. Like they, they don't aid in the sale. They might not detract either. But I don't think they move the ball forward in any meaningful way because you're just asking for a sale. And I don't believe that asking for a sale is really any good in any environment. So the way that we do it is we go, do you feel like this could be the answer for you now? Because I'm asking it that way. The likelihood of them saying no is astronomically low. They might say yes, but okay, they'll go, yeah. And then as soon as they say yes, I interrupt them. I don't want them to finish the thought. I interrupt. They go, so do you feel like, do you feel like this could be the answer for you? Yes. Okay. Would you mind, do you mind telling me why? I've started talking. The moment they go, yeah, right, right. Like the moment they open their mouth, I go, do you mind telling me why? Because then what they're going to do is they're going to immediately redirect into thinking about the pitch and going like, yeah, well, you know, I think that that like that structure that you'd mentioned of being able to have access to all this, this and this, I really feel like that would, that would really help and go, okay, well that makes sense, I guess. Is there anything that you feel like, I don't know, is like the sort of key to the castle for you into making sure that you can actually. And then you insert what they want, they go, well, then they're going to think more deeply about the presentation and they're going to think about the pillars and they're going to think about what it is they feel is of most benefit to them.
Okay.
And then so they're going to Explain deeper. So what happens when they explain deeper from an emotional level is because it becomes their argument. Like, if I. If I'm really. If someone says something hyper productive and I push and I. And I challenge them on that, you know? So one of the ones I used to do all the time is I used to do, like, I used to push back on people. They go, no, I think I really need to do this now. I go, you don't have to. Like, no one's going to make you do this. You might be that New Year, New Me guy that everyone talks about. That'd be cool. New Year, New Me. They go, now, I've done that before. It never works out. I just really need to do it now. All right, calm down.
Right?
So, like, they're like, just by me, like, pushing back on the tiniest bit. It makes them dig into the idea even harder. It's a phenomenal tactic that works everywhere, not just in the sales. I've done it at, like, reception desks at, you know, at, like, hotels. And they do something like, whoa, you don't have to do that. That's crazy. They go, no, no, no, no. I'm definitely not really like, Mr. Boone, I'm gonna make sure that you get everything like, whoa, super helpful. Thank you so much. Label them as helpful. Come back next day, ask for something. You know, you've been so helpful. I wonder if I could ask you a favor. Oh, yes, of course, Mr.
Right.
Like, there's, like, People love labels and shit anyway, once you start learning how to persuade people, you can get what you want almost all the time. And then from there, once we get that little bit of commitment, we can go, all right, man. Like, I don't. I don't really have much else for you from here, and only if you feel like it's appropriate. What we could do is go ahead and organize your payment. We could do that with X or Y or Z. And then from there we send out, you know, that gives us the permission to be able to actually start the process of being able to. And then you insert what they want. Would that be appropriate? Or how would you like to proceed from here and so. And then from there? Like, what that does by saying, would that be appropriate? Or how would you like to proceed from here? Is it. Is it. Is. It opens many doors. One of the things that I really, I guess, disagree with in, like, sort of sales culture is that, like, it's. There's, like, a weakness. Like, you, like, big ask for this, right? Go ask for, like, be aggressive. Ask for the sale. It's like, well, yes and no. I think it's good to be confident, but I think, like, you don't need to be assertive like that. Like. Like when it comes to asking for a sale, like, that's. That's not the play. I don't think, and I can justify why is because, like, if you do an option, close, be like, all right, so, like, what works best for you? We're going to do this one or this one over this month. This month. Visa or MasterCard, you know, Amex or diners, right? So, like, they can choose, but then the next question is always going to be like, okay, so, like, let's do it. And I can still go, no. So, like, I just don't see the point. I just feel like it's like kabuki theater, right? It's like, it's all pretend. So what I would do is, like, I like to do it, and I like to invite conversation. Because if you invite conversation, the conversation never has to stop. There comes a point where, like, they're going to run out of steam a hell of a lot faster than I do when it comes to handling concerns, especially if you know how to do it. So, like, by giving them outs. So if you give someone a binary, a yes or a no, you have to backtrack from the no and then move forward. So you're constantly doing three steps back, four steps forward, three steps back, four steps forward. It's a really arduous and combative way to get a sale if they do have genuine concerns, right? Which. It's fair enough if you're asking for $15,000 or something to sales train someone for six months. Like, it's fair enough to have a concern. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to get that sale. But having a concern is fair enough if you have a $450,000 SaaS solution. Fair enough. There's change management to think about. There's tons of stuff to think about, but we can work through it. So you want to continually take steps forward, and you don't want to take steps back. So by going, how would you like to proceed from here? They can say anything. They can go, yeah, you know, it sounds really good from here. What I'd love to do is just kind of, you know, make sure with finance that this is actually going to work, and then just, you know, run it through my business partner and then just sort of take the time to think, to see this is what we want to do. I go, yeah, man, that's not a problem. And like, I guess if money wasn't a concern here and say finance was on board and you guys had the budget, do you feel like, do you feel like this would be the answer for you? Okay, cool. Do you mind telling me why? All right, perfect. And like, I guess, you know, and what are some ways that we think that we can come up with the money or do the budget allocation so that you guys can get the trainings, that you can actually stop, you know, churning these people through at the rate that you are and potentially have the problem get worse.
Right.
And you can, you can go through your process then from there you can resolve that money concern, you can move through, agree upon payment terms, right? Because like you're, you're not even asking for the sale, you're just discussing it, right? And you go like, okay, cool, so monthly payments of, you know, 4700, that works in your guy's current budget? Well, yeah, you know, yeah, I guess it does. I guess it does. Alright, cool, man. And how would you like to proceed from here? Well, you know, I just really need to make sure the partners are on board and then we just have to make sure that it's in the corporate strategy. All right, cool. And if your partners are on board, you know what I mean? You just go through your partner objection.
Right?
You go through your board objection. Because you guys have access to a lot of that. You just memorize all that stuff and you just go through it, go through it, go through it, go through it seamlessly until you get down to like, you know, a point where you've handled all logistical questions. There is no longer any logistical hurdles that are in the way of getting this sale. And so now it's mono, A mono. And you can then start doing other stuff. Hey, you know, just between me and you and kind of off the record, what's really holding you back? Well, they tell you, right. You know, so. And then we have processes for that. So like, you know, by allowing that door to stay open, you can address all the concerns. And maybe the concern can't be addressed on that call. Maybe you have to book a next one. But at least like you've done the work to understand the true concern, to get the best next step.
Right.
But if you are constantly asking for yes, no binaries you're having to take, It'll take you 45 minutes to get to that point, whereas we can do it in 10. And we're not being combative because it's like, how do you want to proceed from here. And they proceed with a concern. Perfect. How do you want to proceed from here? Like, they're choosing the path, but like the path that they. The path that they can choose get narrower and narrower, but they feel like they're in control. Hence it never gets combative. You don't lose sales because you're just bullying people into doing stuff, which you can do. And it does work. It's just not as effective over the long term. Does that make sense in terms of process? Broken that down. Happy Larry.
Right.
The commitment phase. Pretty simple, pretty straightforward what it's designed to do. Overall, NEPQ a little bit more complicated, but still super learnable. And now I will go through questions. All right, Nathan.
I kind of just wanted to, since we're on this particular phase, just kind of go through my script with my particular opportunity to make sure I got it all dialed in correctly and then get out of your hair. Share my screen or how.
Yeah, go for it. How would you do that?
How would you like to proceed?
Yep, you can share your screen if that's what floats your boat.
So just as a refresher, I'm an Etsy coach. I sell an Etsy coaching course program to help people get their shops to where they want to or launch a new shop. Most of the time just to fix up their shop because they suck at it.
All right, so just go up a little bit. Have you got the pitch there?
Yeah. Like three pillars and stuff.
Yeah.
Or a few things may be able to help you with the situation and solve so many problems. Of course, our biggest. One of the biggest problems where I see soloists have. Don't say that. Oh, who, who, who, like, who cares about the biggest problems? I see those have. Talk about their problems. Okay, right. Like, so you want. It wants to be like the best. A good pitch. Sounds like it's custom.
All right, so how would I word that as far as. To them? Because I was just going to like the generic script or whatever.
So, like what is that pillar? It's. They have like what is that pillar one. It's the course pillar and there's three sub pillars. Is that or is that just like how you've broken it down? The course pillar.
That's just like the three step formula.
A combination of Anthony and Jeremy's presentation stuff.
Okay.
One of the biggest problems I see those have is that they're trying to build shops that they don't actually know the steps in order to take it and maintain a profitable shop. So what we do is we take a Step by step through it shows a compensation functionally. Step by step. Modules, Training platform. The most condensed, most robust version. Information. We're not gonna lie. I don't like it.
Okay.
I think like, it's okay. It like it's fine, but like, I just don't think it's gonna like, speak to them very deeply.
Right.
Okay.
You know, so the way that like, I like to structure it is like not super different to how you structured it, but like the way that I like to have the feel is like I could do so many things for you.
Right.
But like, this is what you need, you know, like, it's a very, like, it's very personalized and very like besides spoke. I like that. So like, if they feel that way and they feel like it addresses their specific problems, you know, and it's. And it's made for their specific problems, then like they're going to have a more. You're going to be able to carry the emotion. So pillar one is all about information.
Right.
One of the things that I think you'd mentioned is that you just weren't quite sure exactly what to do, when to do, how to do. So what I've done is I've created a course. Now, I don't really expect you to go through the entire course because to be honest, like, maybe you do over time. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to really kind of cherry pick the things that I think that you should go through first because I really respect your time and I want to make sure that you're just not running through a portal all day, but in that portal, like, and in that course information. What we're going to go through is we're going to give you a really, really robust structure of how you can assess where you're currently at and then create the educational roadmap to where you need to be. And what that really means for you is that you're going to spend less time kind of searching the Internet for like, information here, there and everywhere. And you're going to spend less time doing a more effective, highly targeted educational program for yourself where you can do it in your own time so you're not pigeonholed to any sort of, you know, schedule on that. Because, like, I think you'd mentioned that you, you know, you didn't have tons of time, but you still want to learn stuff. And so what I want to do for you is create that educational journey that doesn't actually take you away from your kids, take you away from Your family. Does that make sense? They go, ah, yeah. And then I go. And that kind of brings me to pillar number two, which is all about coaching. Now, it's all well and good to give you a portal and give you a PDF and give you a tap on the bottom and say, I'll see you in 12 weeks. But a lot of us need that kind of accountability to stay on track.
Right?
And so what we're going to do is create a coaching program for you over the next six months that gives you access to specific skill sets, specific Q&As, yadda, yadda, yaddA, yadda, yadda, because I think you'd mentioned this. So what we're going to do is this. Does that make sense? Now, the last one is accountability. Now, before I go any further, I want to make sure. Are you open to actually being held accountable? Actually having someone hold your feet to the fire so that you can. You can really do xyz. Because if you're not, like, this just isn't going to work. But, like, is that something that you're open to? Yes. Okay. Do you mind telling me why? Ah, okay, that makes sense. All right. So pillar three is all about accountability. I'm going to hold your feet to the fire. And you've now edified me as the person that is here to hold your hand through this and get you to do things that are uncomfortable or even previously uncharacteristic. So if you're okay with that, then we can talk about the investment and how that works. Would that be okay? Perfect. All right, cool. So that, you know that structure that I put together, does that make sense? Yes. You go through all that, the investment is this. How do you want to proceed from here?
Right?
That makes sense. Like, so it's a bit more like, a little bit more conversational. Like, probably hitting a lot of the same points that you're hitting, but writing it in a more conversational manner where you hit the emotional points and give them the outcomes that it gives them. Like, I don't care what you're giving me. I don't care. And neither do you. Like, did any of you guys know that you had 52 sales coaching sessions a week when you sign up to NDPQ 3.0? Like, maybe you did, maybe you didn't. Who gives a sh.
T, Right?
If I tell you to go knit in the corner for 45 minutes a day and double your clothes, Right. You better start knitting, boy.
Right?
Do you know what I mean? Like, the mechanisms on some level are irrelevant now, obviously, we can't just like sell magic beans, right? Like, we have to provide a solution that works and that's essential. And the better you get at sales, the more, the more of a necessity is to really make sure you're selling something good because you can do some serious damage.
Right.
But like the detailed mechanisms are relatively irrelevant in most cases and can be handled elsewhere. But like the overall. So the way that you kind of structure it, I think should be a little bit more conversational, a little bit like pulling.
Right.
So if you want to take like the recording of what we've taken today or whatever, then like that might be helpful. Or you can just probably listen to the podcast. So yeah, that's really kind of how I would do it. Especially for what you're selling, because you're selling sort of like a much more emotional coaching service to small business owners who are either side hustling, looking to transition, whatever it may be.
Plus it's high ticket, so more emotion the better, I'm sure.
All right then from there, do you feel as though it might be maybe you're what you're looking for? Does that feel as though it might be maybe. I guess it's a lot of neutrality. Let's just simplify that. Now.
That was, that was, that was going to be my point of feedback when you scrolled up is, does that feel as like it might be, you know, what you're looking for?
Should I throw possibly in there too?
Yeah, yeah, throw, possibly could be.
Throw them all in there. But just make sure you indicate to yourself that those are optional and not. And I see, and this is important, I think, for everybody because there's certain parts in the script where you'll see something is doubled or like an alternative way to say it. It is not there for you to say that thing. It's there as an option for you to execute one or the other or that there's a ellipsis like that. Like make sure it doesn't make more sense as an OR statement. It's almost never going to be an and statement because number of people I see butcher a rationale question by having all of the possible variations in one go is astonishing.
Yeah.
If it feels read to weird, you got to reword it, you know. Do you feel like this could, this could be the answer for you? And so like I think, like I was saying last week, like you can convey neutrality and intent through like a multitude of different ways. Like what you've done here is you've done might be maybe right. So but you could lose those words and say it in a neutral way. Does that feel as if it's what you're looking for? So I'm asking it curiously. So I don't, I don't know. You tell me.
Right.
So my, my tone has given the underlying intent of the question. So all the pre written scripts are in Inner Circle. Jessica. Sorry. We give the, the outline here, the generic sort of script, and then from there we fill it in in sessions. So the reason why we have done for you scripts in Inner Circle is because if you haven't done 2.0 or 3.0 first, you will completely shit the bed. Like, if I give you a script like it is the worst thing I can do for your sales career because you'll absolutely butcher it. Without the underlying fundamentals or having built a script on your own. The idea is you do all this stuff, build a script, it's pretty good, but not amazing. Come in Inner Circle, we'll write it for you. It'll be incredible. And you know how to use it. We used to just sell Inner Circle. People just butcher it. It just didn't. Didn't work.
Right.
Like, I can convey my intent by the word choice, which is what you've done here. I can convey my intent through the, the like inflections. Up or downward, Right. If I ask a question with a downward inflections, it sounds very concerned and curious. But if I ask it with an upward inflection, it's just curious. I can use body language, right? If I say, why aren't you better at sales? And if I put my hand on my heart, say, why aren't you better at sales? Like it comes from a different place. It feels very different. The intention is different. So it feels different. Then you've got the pausing, right? So when and where I pause. So if you go up to that question, like you've got the ellipses there, so you've got the pauses in there, does that feel as though it might be maybe what you're looking for? Like I had, I just naturally had to make my tone quite neutral because I'm using all the other cues. And then the last one, sorry, it's gonna be pacing. So speaking fast and slow, right? Like when I coach, I speak quite slowly because I have to be understood in my day to day. I talk much, much faster. Much, much, much, much, much, much faster. And when I sell, I do a combination of both. There's a few reasons for that. First of all, it's to convey intent. Second of all is to sometimes Create confusion on purpose. But the problem becomes, if I do everything, if I do all those five things, like, it will be so overwhelming that I will sound like a weirdo. Does that feel as though it. Though it might be maybe what you're looking for? Like, dude, calm down. Like, Ro, we're in a sales call. Like, we're not. Like, we're not in therapy, right? So, like, you've got to be careful if you overdo it. So, like, like that, like, you'd have to know. All right, cool. I can ask it that way. But I got to be like, real neutral tonality when I say that my pacing has to be consistent. You know what I mean? Like, I can't. I can't do any of this stuff that I would look at doing. And that's why everyone up that, do you like what you're doing?
Right?
Everyone goes to, do you. Do you like what you're doing now? And it's like, well, bro, calm down. Like, don't do everything that makes sense. Like, again, you can say it, you can write it exactly like that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you are aware of the things that you can't do if you're doing that. So what I would say from more of a beginning or learning standpoint is like, pick the things that you're going to go on. Like, pick the things I'm going to do. Neutral language, and I'm going to do pausing. Those are the things I'm going to work on. Sweet. Then from there, you can manipulate that question to kind of be appropriate. Say it out loud a bunch of times. Say it to people. If they get weird responses and they're like, okay, like that, then chances are you got to tone it down a little bit. Or if you're getting really vague answers, then chances are you got to tone it up a bit. If you get super vague answers and your intent is not being conveyed clearly enough, you know? So, like, that's when specificity of, like, wording. Because one of the things is the word choice, right? So maybe what you're looking for is just a very, very vague word choice. So the way I do is, do you feel like, do you think this could be the answer for you? And so, like, that's pretty simple. It's very clear. But I say it in a very neutral way. I do a little bit of double speaking of pausing. I can razzle dazzle, right? And then you know from there, like, they know what I'm trying to say, and it's conveyed in like a normal way. Okay. So why do you feel as it is though?
Okay, in what way?
Okay, but besides that, what specific parts of the training program do you feel like, cool again? I think like for what you're selling, you could just be like, you know, I think you could again make it more casual and conversational.
Right.
Like, I don't know, like it depends if that reflects how you speak in normal day. But if you have like a. If you have quite a, I guess professional day to day speaking, you know, someone like me, right? No, so like, you know, like I'm very casual and very like non professional I think would be the technical term for how I am as a human. But like Jeremy is different. Right. So Jeremy would like get away with saying things that would sound weird coming from me just because of like how I am as a person. So.
Yeah.
Do you feel like this program would be the best possible. Yeah. Why that? So do you feel it? I think that's a bit. It's a bit, I'm gonna use a cool word, duplicative.
All right.
It's a bit duplicative to have that in there. Like you've already asked it, you've asked it again, then from there you're asking. So it kind of feels like you're like. It kind of feels like you're doing something, you know, like they're gonna catch wind that you're a filthy sales rep trying to take their money.
Right.
Okay, well, I have some company today. It looks like we cover all the basics. We possibly looking for where the next day would be. If you think it's appropriate, we can go to yada yada yada, get the ball rolling and get with your one on one coaching. So what I would do is in that I would say get the ball rolling so we can. And then insert their emotional driver. Not even the outcome they're looking for the emotional driver, whatever that driver is, and start you on the path to financial freedom so you can spend more time with your kids.
Right?
Like whatever that like the outcome from getting the thing is put that there because then that starts thinking the more like emotion solution based thinking instead of like tangible. Because like if you tell me one on one coaching, like for me with my schedule, I immediately think, right, like, how am I going to schedule this? So like it gets me into my, into my logical brain, takes me out of my emotional brain.
Right?
Which is why you probably weren't told the times of the sessions when you were sold. You probably weren't told how many there were either. Because if I tell you the times and how many, it's just going to cause problems.
Okay.
Appropriate now and you like proceed when they ask for the. So when they ask for the price. Okay, cool. So the investment, I like funding, but I think investment works. But I think you should trial both to see what lands better. Do like 20 sales, call on investment. 20 sales call on funding, see which ones you felt landed better and then from there roll with that.
Right.
Okay. It's just depending on like the, on like the avatar as to like what words would use better. 100% speak good me.
Right.
Like what, like what will work better depending on the avatar. If you get someone with an existing store that's looking a ramp or you get someone who's looking at, you know, part time, it wants to go, like it just might work differently. And you'll learn to feel that out, I think over time because little things like that can make a difference. And at this stage you're looking for ways to not screw the sale up. You're not looking for ways to make the sale. Like I hope that that's been somewhat clear. Like at this stage they should already be sold.
Right, Right.
Like we're just trying not to undo it.
I mean I've what seems to be working because I've gone in between but seems to be working when they ask for the price. And this is how I was sold with the apq. Yeah, you with this program where I just, I just pop up the sales page and kind of do like a 10 second review scrolling through like. So this is blah, blah, blah then and then.
Yeah, that's, that's actually good, like compliance stuff.
Right.
This is what you're getting. This is exactly how long it's going to take. This is what it is. If you have a refund policy, tell them like you should say all that stuff. Like there's compliance. I'm not going to go into it because like I'm not going to be held liable for any doing crazy stuff.
Right.
But like there are regulatory compliance things. There are things that constitute verbal contracts, things that don't constitute verbal contracts. Now if your verbal contract does not line up with your written right, then both are invalid. Okay.
Right.
So just be aware of that. You see a little. I agree with the terms and conditions. I hope they match up, you know, whatever.
Yeah, it's, it's cool that. It's cool that you agree with the terms and conditions.
Yeah, like they have to agree with the terms and conditions.
Yeah.
You can't tick that box for Them, just so you know you can, but it's meaningless.
Right.
So anyway, that's a good way of doing it. Let's see how it works. That's all fine. Then you're basically. How do you want to proceed from here? Make this up. Sweet. So we made some adjustments. Make a couple of them, see how you go. And just think about the stuff that we talked about in terms of like the actual guiding concepts and principles. And then from there, I hope it makes sense.
I will tweak that for sure. Thank you, Matt.
No worries. Can you unshare your screen, please? And then I will go through tlb. I do apologize for swearing, too. No, you don't. You don't care. I mean, I want to be very clear that the Seventh Level Corporation apologizes on my behalf. However, me as a human doesn't care.
All right.
Anyway, I'm just kidding. All right. Tlb, is that how I should refer.
To you as Tina here?
Nice to meet you.
I sell engine repair for aircraft. Aircraft engine maintenance, overhauls, inspections, aog, that sort of thing. So I just started putting my script together this week. And earlier. We had earlier call with Will and there was some clarification that although sometimes I do B to C, there is. The process is B2B. How he explained it. And I reviewed your B2B in the, in the, in the portal. And so I guess I need some. I need some clarification around scripting versus proposal. Right. And proposal versus scripting. Because I'm typically, I'm doing a straight calling into. And I'm asking for the aviation manager or the director of maintenance. And so I have to use better word choice for, you know, my, you know. Well, probably all my, all my phases actually, at this point. So.
Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Like, you've been doing this for a while.
Well, I've been on. I've been in aviation for like 15 years, but I've been on the charter side. And then I've been in. I've been selling, not actually selling maintenance. I've been selling kind of a lot of the different aspects of aviation. So this particular call is for engine overhauls, inspections.
Okay. So I understand what you understand what you're asking, and I'm going to be a little bit annoying and just ask a few more questions. What's the sale? Are they coming to you as existing clients and you're managing the accounts and upselling, or are you maintaining the accounts or are you getting in new accounts?
We are getting new accounts, but we're also keeping we want to increase client retention, so that's really important as well. So it's a newer rebranded company, so the trust factor isn't really there in the industry right now. Although we do have people that have been in the industry for a long time that do have trusted reputations. So that's kind of like the objection right now. We don't really know you. Who are you? We've never, you know, kind of thing. How do we know you're not a fly by night type of.
Yeah, yeah. So you gotta address things in two ways. The first thing you can address things is through a process look. And then you can address things for a skills look, right? The hard way of doing it is going skills first. So like, if you're like struggling with some of those, like consistent concerns, what I would do is generate a process that is designed to somewhat overcome them.
Right?
To the best of the degree. Because what you want in a set, an ideal sales process, like when the client, when the prospect comes in, the calls, they have, the communication in between what things that they see, things that you send them, is all designed to make it easier. Not a lot of people think of it that way, but that's what it's designed to do. And you can create processes that like, do a lot of the heavy lifting for you, right? So like, if you're getting constant trust objections, we need to address that in the process, potentially extend your sales cycle, right? As in, like right now, if you're doing like a three call on average, maybe you do a four call and they're being sent things in between. That builds more trust, like marketing material.
And things like that. Marketing material.
And so you want to make sure they're not getting marketing material. You want them to get like they want to get off the MQL list and onto the SQL list, right? When they're on the SQL list, then like they get specific communication and information, so they get that stuff. So it's designed to build trust, right? So they get case studies, testimony, like, you know, they get information about you guys. Because what you don't want to do in your presentation is go like. So we started in 1994 with founders named Tim and Rick. And they love sheep, right? Like someone like no one cares, right? However, what I do want to make sure is that your company is reputable. You know what I mean? So like, that is a concern. But I don't want to get on a sales call with a company I don't think is reputable or at least I'm not going to go to the whole way through the process, then at the end of it go like, well, okay, like, I'm not going to waste my time with that many calls. So like, I should be getting communication, I should be getting information. I also want to know. You guys know a lot about me, right? So like, try and combat that stuff as best you can. The best way to do it, I think, is create a flowchart of like the ideal sale, right? So if you've had a sale that was like, man, that went well, reconstruct it, right. If they were a person who was like a referral doesn't count. I'm talking like basically coldly didn't know you perfect sale. Reconstruct that as best you can and then add to it.
Right.
I tend to make it overly complicated in the beginning. It's actually the opposite of most. By making it super simple, then making it bigger, you should actually probably overcomplicate your sales process a little bit. Like over extend it more than what you would think. So then you can cut it back because it's much easier to add friction.
Right.
If I talk about friction points as like places where people can drop off.
Right.
Or you know what I mean? So like, the more time and the more touch points there are, the more chances they have of dropping out. Now, obviously you're not going to sell, you know, a rebuild of an entire plane in one call. So like, you have to work within reason there. But like, what I'm trying to say is like, look at it from a whole process standpoint. Map it out. What is every single piece of communication that's received by the customer and client? What are the common concerns that I'm getting and how can I overcome that through process that when I speak to them, like, I don't have to worry about that.
Right.
That's step one.
There's none of that. There's basically like. I guess part of the learning curve with this is that it's not a. That's not one call.
Yeah. It'll be probably four or five. Whatever.
I mean, looking at it now, I think it's funny that I was trying to do it all in one call, but. Okay, so mat out this. Okay, got it.
And then from there like go. Okay, cool. Like in order to get this person to be in a buying state, like, and that's where you kind of have to. I think it's really good for salespeople to study marketing. Right. Because what is marketing designed to do? Marketing is designed to get people in a state where they would like to buy, right? They want something, they have a problem they want solved. And then from there sales takes over and takes them through the buying process. That's what it's designed to do. So if you understand marketing, sales is much easier. And if you understand sales, you're a much better marketer, right? So there are essential, there's five key things that people have to do in order to be ready to buy something. So the first is that they become unaware. So they're unaware, right? You can't sell an unaware person. Like there's nothing to sell them, right? You're just a grifter at that point, right? Then you've got problem awareness. Hey, the engine on my jet sucks, right? And maintenance cost me a fortune, you know, I mean, like, whatever. Then it's like solution aware. Oh, there are companies out there that can, that can actually like provide a higher level, whatever, right? You know, I mean, then we've got brand aware. So like, Tina is the lady for that, you know, I mean, then you have a product. So if I use it in terms of like sales, right? Unaware. I suck at sales. There's sales training that exists. 7th Level is a sales training company. NEP Key 3.0 is a sales training program that helps me increase my sales, right? So I've taken you through all levels of awareness. Now, if they're not brand and product aware, it's very difficult to sell someone. It can be done, but it's difficult and you're shortcutting processes. So if your marketing is handing over to you at Solution Aware, your process better fix Brand aware and product aware. So you have to take them through a process where they understand more. Doing that in one call. Like, you can't, you can't. Like, maybe you can, like, don't get me wrong, someone can, right? But in order to make it replicatable, scalable, repeatable, yada yada yada, then you're better off like really mapping out a process that gets rid of it. Otherwise you end up like, like doing things to solve problems. Like, so you end up writing a presentation or proposal that solves a bunch of problems that you shouldn't have. Do you know what I mean? And then like, so you're sort of underlooking one area overlooking another area. And then if you ever do fix that, that problem upstream, you've now created a problem downstream because your presentation is too big, because it's designed to solve a problem you no longer have. And then you're going to wonder why, oh, why isn't this working? You know what I mean? Like, and then businesses start tearing their hair out, and that's where they usually come to people like me, and I tear apart their entire business and then tell them all the reasons why they suck in terms of sales, right? So, like, it's just like, don't always try and fix the problem with skill. I think as sales reps, we always try and do that. We try and really go, like, how can I do better? How can I get better at Objection. Handling. It's like, I think the first thing you should do is, like, how can I make my process so good that it actually solves all the problems for me? And obviously, like, not all of you have the ability to change tons. But, you know, for example, when I was doing selling business coaching to, like, building companies, I created my own webinars, right? I had a real. There was a real know, like and trust issue. And so I created three or four different webinars that went through our educational portal, focusing on different things. One was finance, one was systems, one was hiring, and one was, like, getting off the tools.
Right?
So those are, like, the main avatars that I was seeing. So I went through the different parts of the portal. I showed the entire portal, but emphasized a different part. Then when a person came through as a part of my call one to call two process, they would receive that specific webinar with specific case studies that were most appropriate for their problem set.
Right.
So I just took all the case studies and testimonials that we have. I segmented them via a Google sheet on size of business, age of business owner, key problems. And then I could pick and choose things that had the greatest amount of crossover so that it felt like I was really speaking to them and that our clients were them. And it was specific and it was tailored and it was custom, you know.
Solving their problems, customer Personas, customer profile. Is that what you're referring to?
Yeah, sort of. But it was on a much more basic and simple level because I was just a dude trying to make it happen, right? So it's just like, what's the problem? What's the age? What's the size? You know what I mean? So, and then I would just send him an email with like, here's the webinar. And it's like, oh, wow, that portal is tailored to my problems that I just discovered that they had on the discovery call. Yeah. Sweet. It is. That's crazy.
Right? Right.
And then, oh, look at these testimonials and case studies that are exactly the problems that I have in the exact same size business industry. Oh, isn't that crazy and weird? Yeah, it's so weird, right? Like, what are the odds, you know? And then when I get them on the. On the sales call, like, I've solved the problem, you know, and then a lot of them weren't watching it, so I was like, well, that makes my life harder. So, like, how do I make them watch it? So I created a process to make them watch it, change my script a little bit, put in a process, some extra emails, another call, done, Good to go. Went from like a 40% show up rate to an 80% show up rate, you know, went from a lower close rate to a higher close rate. So process is key, but. All right, guys, if you're in 3.0, I love you or dearly, I do apologize, but we are well and truly running over now. And I love your work. So love you all. Enjoy you all, and I'll see you next week.
Bye.
Bye. Put that coffee down.
