Trainers and Pitching from Stage - CIFC Episode 150
Matt Ryder talks with Anthony and Jeremy about dog training, sales coaching, and pitching events. They share practical advice from their work in sales and training, drawing on real experience in both fields.
Speaking of. Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to the episode of Coffee is for Closers. We're back with Pat.
Hello.
That's back from his American tour.
I'm back.
Yeah. So we can all be thankful that it's not just me carrying the load.
Yep, I'm back. I did things in America. I had a wonderful time.
We can talk about it.
Yeah.
All right, let's do it.
All right.
Ex Special Forces sniper turned entrepreneur, I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast. And I'm telling you to that coffee down.
We're back.
We're back.
All right.
What'd you do in America, mate? I went there to. I went to teach two different schools. So I did like two three day seminar type events as well as I went to learn. I was a student for the first five days, which was really cool. It's been a long time decoying. So, like, a decoy is the person who gets bitten by dogs. It's teaching a dog to bite. I'm a pretty good decoy. I'm like, certainly very competent in Australia. One of the better. But I've never taught it before. And I'm trying to upskill people in Australia.
Okay.
And I've taught heaps of people to decoy, but over a period of years, you know, like, instead you come, you're in the training, you. You presented an opportunity. We go, okay, I'll show you how to do this thing. But I've never actually been like, okay, this is a course on how to do it. So I went to a course of a really good friend of mine, Sean, and he, like, I just kind of was there to take notes on how he runs a course because I'm doing that here in Australia, teaching it.
So. Yeah.
Is there a grant cardone of the dog industry?
I don't know if there's a. I.
Don'T know if grant.
And I don't mean that in like a negative sense. I mean that in like a. Just an overwhelmingly large figure that is incredibly successful at what they do.
Yeah, there's. There's three in. In MySpace.
Okay. Yeah, they start using MySpace.
That's why they're so big in the protection sport, but also real world pets and like across dog trainings. Like, because the thing is with dog training, it's a huge. It's a huge spectrum. So, like herding, I don't know about.
Right?
Like, I couldn't teach a dog to herd sheep. Like, I could help. I can figure it out. I know how dogs work, but that's so far outside my realm.
Okay.
But protection sports is where I'm at. Like dogs that bite people because that sort of translates to a lot of real world application. So then like under protection sports you get tracking and, and detection and biting and all the things that a dog would be employed by an agency to do.
Okay.
And we there' civilians that do that for fun. And then all those skills are transferable to pets. So it's the. Probably them, probably there'll be people that would argue this is incorrect, but that like it's probably the most broadly usable skill set because you get drive channeling like getting a dog to express itself fully, go mental, like show all the power that you can. And then capping that and being like, but now sit and wait until I tell you to do that again and display the same amount of power. And then as well as like, you know, inherent dog skills like detection and stuff where like if you teach it incorrectly you can't help the dog because like you do the detecting. So like you can get yourself kind of stuck.
Okay.
So in that space there's three people who are the king dingalings.
Okay.
And they've got, they're independently very successful themselves. So the first guy's Michael Ellis. So he, he. Yeah, you, you'd have heard of them or you would have heard me talk of them. Mike Ellis is a mondo ring guy. So mondio's like it means world. It's a, it's a sport that he was very instrumental in bringing to the US and he's an incredible teacher and like a super nice dude and you know, great on the tools. Like really good dog trainer but, but is magician at teaching. Like he's where I developed a lot. I spent a lot of time studying him as a dog trainer and then studying him as a teacher. Then there's Bart who I spent. So I went to Mike Ellis's school. Like I did a week long thing there. There's Bart Bellon, who is an nbk. It's Belgian ring. He's a Belgian guy. Was Belgian champ. That makes you world champ because it only happens in Belgium. Okay. And that game is only played there. But he's incredible. And there's another guy, Ivan Balabanov and Ivan's igp. And so that's, that's formally Schutzh. That's formerly ipo. It's called IGP now. That's the, that's the sport where they just bite the sleeve, right. And it's the most Stylized. It's the fakest of sports. Like, it's not. People get upset at saying that as well, but it's the, it's the, it's ballet.
What's the, what's the, what's the shooting? Triple gun.
Yeah, it's like that ipsc.
Yeah, yeah, it's a triple gun.
As opposed to totally.
Actually going through and clearing a house.
Totally.
So gun looks amazing. I don't know how good it is.
At killing people exactly, but like, if you're, if you're a coach, so you can get people who are real world gunfighters really in the army that will do triple gun for fun and their skills will get really high and they'll implement many of those to their real world. But there's plenty of things that you just would never do because that's stupid. We had that triple gun guy come out and teach and he was like, you know, dump mags between things. And I was like. But I was like, I was like, man, I'm only carrying two pistol mags. Like, I'm not sure. Shit ain't dropping. Like, because I fired three rounds here and I over there, I'm only carrying one mag with.
Drop it like, like if you have.
A moment when you change stages. Ye. Because they'll carry like 15 of the things.
You know what I mean?
So I saw a photo of me in the gan, like fully, like kitted out at two mags on me.
Yeah.
Because the rest of my pack.
Yeah.
Well, I used to carry six M4 mags. One on the gun, six on my pouch. And then most of the time if I carried a pistol, I just carried the one magazine in it.
Yeah.
Because I was like, I don't have space for this crap.
The first, the first, the first time I went out, I carried everything. Grenades. Oh, yeah, fully. Because I. Because I had an SR25.
Right.
But then, like, I was after that, no pistol. That. Because I had a Mag 58. I had a 338 and I had no, I had a Mag 58 and M4 and a SR25.
Yeah.
I was like, man, I'm gunned up.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't need more guns.
Yeah.
If I have to use a pistol, I might as well just fucking jump on a grenade.
I, I, like, I'm dead. Like, I bounced back and forth because I used to do a lot of like, prisoner handling. So you need a pistol for that.
Yeah.
So that's why I had the pistol. But I was like, I'm not carrying an extra magazine. Like a couple of times I carried an extra magazine, but it was only at night and it was on the back of my helme to be a counterweight to MVGs. That used to drive me insane, the idea of carrying a weight on the back of your helmet. Like, I remember being like, hang on, I'm carrying this thing just for the sake.
I cut my toothbrush in half to cut down on weight.
Yeah.
I'm arming and arring about how many bullets to carry.
Yeah.
And you think I'm gonna put a weight on the back of my helmet. Are you fucking kidding me? To counterbalance.
I feel so dumb because I literally never had that thought.
I was like.
You carried the weights. Yes. Three weights, cut it down to two.
Yeah.
Have a front heavy helmet that dragged your ella.
Well, that helps me walk up hills.
Yeah.
You just let gravity do the work.
Yep. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah.
Lean into the hill.
Let the hill do the work. Exactly. Yeah.
So, yeah, I carried. I used to carry a magazine on the back of my helmet.
I was like, that makes total sense.
Yeah.
It's too late. Can't go back. Can't change it now.
Change it. I had all that weight on me unnecessarily.
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah. They're the OGs of it, like, and they're.
Are they. Are they enemies?
Nah. Well, nah.
Publicly?
Nah.
Like sort of private friends, but public enemies.
Like, I think that the thing is, because they're balance trainers, they're people that use tools like they're on the same team, but they do things kind of differently. And I've like learned from them all. I'm a student of bart, like, but I did Ivan's course. I didn't certify and stuff because it, it. There's a whole story behind that.
I've heard the story.
Yeah. But I won't go into. But they've. People get upset at this and this. If this get. I'm sure these people are going to share this into the dog training space. And people come at me again.
Right.
But for the most part they're very similar. There's some ideological differences, but what actually happens on the tools is very, very similar. So there is no one like Grant cardoning it, but there are plenty of people in the space who are big names that no dog trainers have heard of. Right. So that's one of the interesting things. Like in the.
It's a couple of big YouTube tick tocks.
Totally.
That are like have huge reach.
Yeah. So. So like probably in the YouTube.
Look how amazing they are. Yeah.
So in the YouTube space is Zach George. So Zach George is having this big war with Ivan at the moment, right?
Yeah.
But like Ivan, you can say what you like about Ivan as a person. There's people like, because he's, he's a polarizing character in many ways.
I.
But he might be one of the most amazing dog trainers to ever walk the face of the earth, right. And multiple time world champion in his sport and multiple time national champion. Zach George has a YouTube channel, right. And like, like the issue with Zach is that like he, he provides a lot of value to average pet person that gets on YouTube and is looking for basic advice. But then lately he started sort of redirect. Like he's trying to control the narrative a little bit of the industry and that's where a lot of people, Ivan especially has taken offense to that and like, hey, like you just continue making fun, cute videos for people. Leave training actual dog trainers to, to the real deal, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's fair.
Totally right. And. And it's, it's been kind of ridiculous because if you look at like as a professional, when you look at the Zach's work, it's not even, it's not Dr. Like, it's just nonsense.
Right.
Whereas like Ivan is legitimate magician. There's on his course, there's like some of the video where you watch entire start to finish sessions with the dog. It's like it's like watching Michelangelo Sculptor David.
Right.
And then you've other guy like getting bitten by accident on like on like. It's just nonsense, right?
Yeah.
I think I find, I find the same thing. Like, like Jeremy, like I have a unique Jeremy. When he's in the living room and you ask him questions, the answers you get are incredible, you know, because like he has to temper his answers for the people who's talking to.
Totally.
Right.
Which you have to do as a coach. Like I, I coach beginners very differently than I coach. Like I just had a guy reach out to me, he's doing really well and he wants to like, you know, go do a bit better to get them to a really good income. Then I was like, hey man. Like, he's like, what do you usually charge? And I was like, what? Doesn't matter what I charge, man. It matters what it's worth to you to get there.
Yeah.
So I was like, you want to get from here to here? What's that worth to you? And he gave me a number and I was like, it's worth a little more. But like you know, so you, you temper, you like the nuances that you give people. But like when we're just sitting in the living room and you ask him a question, you're like, hey, why do people do this? And you go, well, yeah, and then he'll give you like this 10 minute like monologue of exactly, like, you know, he's like, well, how are they sitting? You know, it's like, well, okay. And then what are they like, Let me see the video. And you see the video. Okay, see that right there, that person is apprehensive. As soon as you said that word, like you needed to stop and go back and ask them about it, you know, and he can look at a group of five people and at the same time and he can just go like, that person scared, that person's happy. You know, read. You can just read the room and go. It just knows how to handle people. It's really interesting. And when you look at someone like that, he's a true master. And then we get people who like did six months of our course.
Yeah.
They're sales coaches.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, it's so laughable.
Yeah.
That it's like, well, was the best.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Because like the moment people get into your thing, you're not any better than your content.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Right.
And when you're not any better than your content, it's like our con, like my content especially is sort of like verbose, somewhat nuanced truisms, but it's not, it's not like nitty gritty, you know, we're like, because if you, if you ask me something, I have to ask you three or four follow up questions to get enough information to be able to answer it. If you just ask me something and I answer it, it's a answer, you know, like if I ask you, like, hey man, my dog keeps barking whenever the mailman goes by. You guys do this?
Yeah. Yeah.
What a throwaway.
Yeah, yeah.
If you go, well, is it more at night? In the morning, are you at home? Does it happen when you're not there? Yeah, like, do they do it for anyone else? Is it just that guy?
Yeah.
You know, like there's so many questions you have to answer before you go, okay, well, let's try this. But it probably won't work. And then we have to try something else, you know, so. And it's the same with humans. And so I think like one of the things where I asked the question was because, like, we can gleam a lot of insight from all the other industries. And I think one of the things that lacks an industry that I'm in and probably I think in every industry, to be fair, is, like, a lack of understanding of what other people are doing that's good and what other people are doing that are bad.
Yeah.
And I think, like, the. There's always a couple of people that are in the space that absolutely crush it. It's very rare. They have conflicting styles.
Yeah.
Like, very rare.
Yeah. And, like, I think it's more ideological, like, how they feel about it. So, you know, like, to. To, you know, again, I don't want to get myself canceled. But one style is you have to connect with the dog and. And really be with the animals, another living creature, and work together. And the other is you have to make the dog think that, like, the outcome is still the same.
Yeah.
But one is, like, you have to do it, and the other is you have to make him think that you're doing it.
Right.
So, like, it's the same thing. It's just how you feel about it that is allowed to be different, but what you actually do has to be somewhat the same. I think, like, there's.
That.
There's something to that level of expertise and nuance. So, like, when I got really good was spending a lot of time with Bart, and it was that he was running these schools, but I would organize the school so I would not only be at them, but I would be picking him up from the hotel, taking him to and from going to dinner every time. All of that.
Bits and pieces.
That's where you learn everything. Because I'm in the school, I'm seeing all the answers, but I'm seeing at multiple schools, people ask the same question and get different answers.
Right.
And then it's like, you know, and then you say, but how come. Because last time you said this and this time you said this, and it says, well, that person needed to hear it said like this in order to. In order to get them to the same point. They needed to, like, they're here. So the path to here is different than the path to here. Even though they go in the same place, they can't take the same journey because they're at different places.
Yeah.
And then it's like, oh, okay. But if. Like, if you're a student in the class, you heard this answer, you didn't hear this answer. So that's the truth to you now.
Right.
And it's not until you hear it multiple times and see it from multiple perspectives that you can really get It. And I think there's that, like, there's that magic in the level of nuance that most people, most experts just don't get, you know. And like, for example, on the weekend, I'm helping someone get a new dog, and I told her, like, you know, imagine yourself, you've just won a big championship and that you're standing there getting your trophy. The dog's healing next to you. Like, what is. What does the healing look like? And I was like, you know, does. Is the dog's got a kink in its back as it's looking dead up at you, or is it forward and its shoulders are, like, staunch like that? And. And she's like, well, I don't. Like. I was like. Because that's difference in bloodline right now. You can teach either one of those things. You can make it look however you want it. You can teach it. But when the dog defaults to who he is, that means we go shopping in different places. And that's the sort of conversation that you don't get. I imagine it has to be the same with. When you talk to Jeremy.
Yeah, I was at dinner with a.
With.
With Cole Gordon last time I was in some of his crew. Mitch. Phenomenal guys, right? Run a great business. They're very good at sales. Like, oh, I will give them that. They're very good at sales. And I was sort of explaining why, like, you know, we're talking about seventh level, and it's sort of grown really quickly. And we're probably like, the biggest sales training at least in the. In the industry that we're in. Like, we're the biggest by a while. And we sort of eclipsed some of what they've done in a few things. And they're, like, talking about why. And I was like, well, I was like, to be fair, man, it's just we have an unfair advantage. We have Jeremy. I was like, that's.
That.
That's it. You know, we're. We. We think of things a little bit differently. I think most people in the industry, but, like, we have Jeremy. And they were sort of like. And I was like, dude. I was like, you know, you're really good at sales. Like, there's no doubt. But I was like, how long are you in sales? It was like two years. I was like, okay. I was in sales for 15.
Yeah.
Full time. Actually 14 full time. I go, but throw me out of the picture. You know how, like, people become obsessed with sales. And he was like, yeah, like, I got obsessed. And it's like, yeah, dude, you're really fucking good. You're very good at sales. I was like, imagine that for 22 years.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, Jeremy has done 166 sales training courses.
Yeah, right.
As a student.
Yeah, yeah.
He's obsessed.
Yeah.
The only thing he listens to is audiobooks. On persuasion.
He.
He reads four books a month. They're all on sales.
Right.
Like, because there's millions of.
That's amazing in and of itself that he can stomach that. He loves it, you know, like, obsessed with it.
Yeah.
Because, like, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good at what I do. And I find it, like, you know, because there's so much repetition, because no matter the style, no matter what you're into, like, probably 60% of dog training is dog training. Like, it is what it is. It ain't going to change. There's flair on top of that, but it just is.
Yeah.
And when you read someone else's book or go through their content, you got to sit through that.
And it's.
I find that, like.
Oh, so Jeremy's job is. He's the chief Product Officer.
Right.
That's his job. So every 12 months, he has to produce me a new course from Wodego. So we just reshot our entire training portal and we filled in every gap that there was in, like, the learning, and then we extended it. And so, like. But we also. But every four. Every three months, we have to release a new product which is like the 50, like, top 50 obliteration. Like, I could never write that. There's four objections, like time, money, think about a partner. To him, he wrote 52. He wrote a detailed response to each one and. And some context behind it.
Are they under the categories of time, money, partner? Like, so they're. He's not even thinking in that.
No, he doesn't.
Like, the subsets of this, they're all different.
Peasant.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, okay, so what. What, he. He's like, okay. Like, he thinks back on his 22 years, he's like, okay. And also, he's trained so many people. People now that he's like, he just. Okay, what are all the objections that we're hearing? You know, I need to pray about it. I need to speak to my cmo. I mean, to go and speak to the board. Can you find me some testimonials? Can you do all this? Whereas, like, my. Like, for me, I got good at handling four objections and funneling everyone into the same four. So for me, I just take that and I funnel it but that's a skill set that I have. It's super difficult to teach.
Yeah. Yeah.
So like, for 90% of people, it's better just to teach them how to address it word for word. Yeah, that's a, an easier way of doing it rather than the way that I learned how to do it. So. But just that, like, he has to produce one of those. So what he does is he listens to things over and over again and then he listens to his own courses over and over again. And then from there he's thinking of ways of like, oh, I like that, but it's wrong because of this. And that will induce this. So but if I twist it like this, I can use that. So he's just constantly, constantly, like, we just got him like, there's last three courses. He's done three courses this year, I think. And it's like February or it's March. Sorry. And they've all been on public speaking.
Okay.
Because he's doing tons of keynotes.
Yeah.
And so like. And for an example, like Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins are like goaded when it comes to online events. They might close at 5%.
Really? That low?
Yeah. But I mean, you're talking about thousands of people. No, no. They make a ton of money. 5 to 7% of the room would be phenomenal.
Okay.
In a virtual environment.
Okay.
We have never closed less than 50.
Wow. Right.
So people are like, oh, you got this way. Well, we'll stick to our way.
Things are going okay.
If we have a thousand people on the call. Like at our last one, we had 1200 people on the pitch, 458 buyers and 400 decline financing.
Okay. Right.
So from 1200 people, we got 848 to buy.
Wow.
Just 400 got tonight financing. So, like, you know, like, like that's 2/3 of the room.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's like. And when we worked really hard. That's a 90 page script. 93 pages, I think it is.
Yeah.
We work really hard and there's so much like layering of. And when you sell on stage, like, it's so different. About two weeks ago, I did a. I did like us. I went to Adelaide. I did like a stage, you know, for like 80 people.
Yeah.
It wasn't a lot. I wasn't selling anything, but I was just going through. And I was sort of doing a talk about sales and business and stuff like that. And it was funny because I like intentionally layered through some of the stuff that I was doing to see what Kind of reactions I would get in emotions. And when you do stuff on stage and like we do this in the, in the, in the, in the five day challenges is like we have to sort of. You sort of have to acknowledge that you'll piss off a sect of them by overdoing certain things. But like you have to lay certain foundations because you honest can't ask anyone a question.
Yeah, yeah.
So. And like when we. We recently, me and Anthony, we went to current Ray's event and if you've heard of him.
Yeah, yeah.
He's like the OG of Australian coaching.
Yeah.
Like he's the first I ever saw.
Yeah. So really interesting. So he recently went through a basic. A complete mental breakdown. No shit. And physical breakdown.
Really.
He had a stroke. Like serious depression. Like, like classic, like diagnosed severe depression, which is like contemplating suicide 24 hours a day.
Wow.
That was for about 18 months. Had a stroke, whole thing.
Right.
But no one ever noticed he was gone because he had that much content. Backloaded.
Yeah. Right.
So they Weekend at Bernie's the motherfucker.
Right.
Well, actually that makes sense because do you remember when I was looking at content here, I was looking at stuff of him and I was like, something doesn't add up here.
Yeah.
Because I was looking at all of these things and I was. I remember saying at the time, I was like, these numbers don't align. Like, he's not got the right traction here for the amount of traction that he's getting there. And like, I was like, something's not right about his content. That's interesting.
Just repurposed for 18 months.
Yeah.
So anyway, we went to his event and he's like, I just want to see, like, how's this guy do it? Like, you know, he's not in our, like, he's a business coach. We're not in his demographic. He's definitely for solopreneurs. Like, that's really where his wheelhouse is. I would say zero to 3 million. You know, like, we're just way outside of his wheelhouse. So. But I was just there to kind of see what he had to say, to be honest. It was really interesting. And me and, you know, me and Anthony were just. We just analyzed it from a sales perspective. It was really fun to watch. And he did a lot of things really well. They actually called me afterwards and they're like, hey, what'd you think? Trying to sell me. I was like, oh, do you want some real.
Did they know you?
No.
Okay, so you were just a random call.
I was like, you want some real feedback? I was like, yeah. I was like, well, I'm outside of his wheelhouse, but I can tell you what I think from a sales angle, what he did right, what he did wrong. And they're like, yeah, we have the same feedback. That's exactly what we thought. So basically, like, what he did is he came out and he very. He made himself very endearing.
Right.
By talking through his struggle. I think he overdid it a little bit because, like, I think the key is you. You want to have come up, right? But, like, you have to create, like, your hero's journey.
Yeah.
But you can't spend too much time in, like, the pity party section. You have to kind of, like, talk about it, but breeze over it. You know what I mean? And so I think it kind of went back into the mindset space too much.
Okay.
Which kind of creates transparency when you talk about a thing in the same way. Too much.
Yeah. Right.
But maybe I only. I noticed that. I don't know. I was just like. I'd say 10%, knock it back a little bit, but then from there, like, he did a lot of things well, and he positioned himself well, and, you know, the action is the whole thing. I could see the whole way.
Right.
So. But then when he pitched, this is where he fucked it up.
Right.
First of all, the back of the room stuff was garbage. Like, they didn't have salespeople. You can tell it wasn't. But also, they haven't been an event in a while, and he just got off a stroke.
Yeah, sure. This is the comeback tour.
Yeah, exactly. So, like, it wasn't set up properly, administrationally, I think, to make sales. And then from there, what he did is. What he did really well is he goes, okay, everybody, hands up if you want to learn the skills to make more money.
Right.
Now, the interesting thing about that is, psychologically speaking, it should be difficult to not raise your hand.
Right.
Because of the way that it's set up. Because it's like, basically the first question is, who is here? And who is committed to achieving their goals? Raise your hand. Of course I am. Right now, who is willing to take the action required to actually make that money to achieve your goals? Totally. Hand up.
Yeah.
Now, if you're. If you have your hand up, stand up.
That's a step I'm not sure I want to take.
I'm wearing shorts.
Right.
So if you have your hand up and you're serious about this and stand up.
Okay.
Right now I'm sitting there, arms folded yeah, I'm sitting down, but I'm one of 20 out of a room of 500.
Okay.
That are sitting down.
Right.
Me and Anthony, I'm like, this is always interesting. And you can watch people as they become more anxious as to what's happening next.
Right.
Now then from there, what he did is he went through some testimonials and.
Leaves everyone standing at this point.
Oh, yeah, you gotta leave him standing.
Okay. Yeah.
I'll tell you what he did and I'll tell you what he should have done.
Right.
So then, then from there he goes through and then he like reaffirms that, like you, you, you know, points people out, codifies them. Well done. You're standing up, you're going to take action, do the things required. You one of the few, the proud, yada, yada.
Right.
Well, that kind of. And then from there he gets them into this frenzy and then he's going to start his. His price drop.
Right.
So he gets everyone to sit down.
Okay. Right.
So he lost the momentum that he just built.
He told everyone to sit down. And then he went through his price drop. And he didn't do his price drop correctly. He did like one price. He did the actual price.
Yep.
Which is 4, 9, 9, 7. And then he did the. But it's usually 6, 9, 9, 7. It's like, well, is it? Motherfucker, is it? You know, I mean, so what he should have done is it's 6, 9, 9, 7. But for you, for those of you here today, it's 4, 9, 9, 7. And for the first 50, it's 2, 9, 9, 7. That's what he should done.
Right.
Because he's gonna. It's selling him into a 40 thing where he upsells him anyway.
Yeah.
So, like, it's just people, you know, so you got to do it that way. So, like build some urgency. But he sat them down. Then from there he got them to. If you're gonna take action on this shit and stand up, that's really hard to do. It's really hard to muster up the courage to stand up in a room of people who are sitting down and say, I will do something. It's much easier just to stay standing. So, like, he went from working with human psychology to working against it. And the problem is it's a high risk, high reward maneuver. If everybody stands up, you've knocked it out of the fucking park. But if five people out of 600 stand up, it's a problem. Then, like, how do you get the rest to stand up?
Yeah.
So do you think he made a sequence error? Do you think, like, he actually made a mistake and, like, oh, I shouldn't let them sit down.
Right.
Because, like, I teach live events not to that many people, potentially.
Yeah.
But sometimes you just present your information in the wrong order and you're like, oh, like. Because he's not using a slideshow, I imagine.
Right.
It seems to spit and hot fire.
Yeah.
And every now and again. That's how I do it. Every now and again you're like, oh, there got no point of reference for what I'm about to say. I forgot to set them up.
Yeah.
Do you think that's what he did?
I think for sure. Like, listen, like, he was. You could tell, like, strokes, you know, they can. He was sort of struggling to find his words a little bit. I think it could have been a sequencing error or it could have just been like a. That's how they've done in the past. Yeah, but he was so good in the past that maybe it worked anyway. Sure, sure. Whereas, like, Aaron Sansoni, who's one of our clients, we went and watched him.
He.
He is good stage right. And what he did is he. He gets everyone the same, Right? Raise your. So it's like small commitment. Raise your hand, bigger commitment. Stand up.
Right?
Then he goes, like, after more edification and more this and more testimonials and like, anchor price. You got an anchor price high. It's 10,000. Would this be worth it to you? If this was $10,000? Stay standing. If this was 10 grand and it'd be worth it to you, stay standing. Perfect. Because for you guys, it's not. It's not, it's not, It's. It's not 10 grand. Now, if you're standing and you would pay $10,000 for this, move into the aisles. So you're like, you're getting this buy in. It's a flock mentality, right? Move into the aisles. Five people start moving. Everyone starts moving, Right. Start moving them in. And I'm in the side because I'm there helping himself, pushing people in the aisles. Me and Anthony just kicking people into the aisles, Right? Get in, go. Right. And then he goes like, all right, now if you're in the aisles, go to the back of the room. Like, go to the back.
Right?
And gets everyone to go to the back. So now essentially he's got a series of people who are sitting that are like, that are. And everyone else who's standing is now towards the back of the room. So what he does Is he grabs a chair, walks over to the back of the room, right in front of them, stands up on a chair. So now everyone behind him is dead to him. Yes.
Right?
So it's like now we're othering people.
Yeah, yeah. Right?
And then he stands up like this big daddy and he just starts talking to him again. And then he anchored. He price drops again, right? So you know, it'd be worth this. You guys said worth this. It'd be this, right? And then from there, he starts doing things like. Which you might like in dog training. When I say go and not before.
Yeah, yeah.
So he starts, like, he starts creating a rhythm of. You do what I say when I say it, right? And he goes like now when I do it and when I say go and not before. And there's. And when I say go and not before, not before. And then he does a price anchor, a final price, and he goes. The first 20 people will receive a free partner to come along to the event with them and a bottle of moe, right? This is fucking genius. The bottle of mo is genius, right? And then from there he goes. We have 40 spots. There are 300 of you standing. You have 15 minutes. And when I say go and not before, you head to the back and you sign up. Go like that, right? And these people. And then all of a sudden you just hear a fucking bottle, right? Champagne.
Fucking like they've won the Grand Prix.
Oh, mate.
I was just like, I got to spend thousands of dollars. Pa. Pa. Good for me.
Great, man. It was great. And there are some things that could have been done better logistically around the sales to get more, but from a stage presentation standpoint, he nailed it. And it was interesting to see, like, him who's like a master of it. And like, Kerwin is obviously very good at what he does, but like the. You can see the level of polished, like, stage pitching, which is different than stage presenting. Yeah, like, stage presenting is one thing, but pitching is a whole different thing. Like the master, the goats. Like Myron golden, okay? Myron golden, black guy in the US Just fucking like can't even really. As a coaching program where he can't even really explain what he does. He's just so good at it.
Okay, right.
Like, he can because he teaches it, but, like, not to the level that I've seen some people teach. Eli Wild is probably the best breaking person I've seen break down stage pitching. It's phenomenal. He. We hired him at seventh level to come in and redo the, like, redo our 90 page script with Jeremy to where like we added in certain things for certain reasons and we, we move certain stories around because like he sort of started to create this emotional crescendo up and down hypnotic type state over the five days where you take people in and out of certain emotions on purpose with anchor words and all that kinds of stuff. This is like quite hypnotic the way we do it. But he's really good at breaking down how and why. He's phenomenal at it. Shout out to Eli. But yeah, so it was super interesting to watch that stage presence. It's very entertaining to watch, dude.
I think there's, there's something impressive. More so about Jeremy though, that he's doing that via zoom. Like.
Yeah.
Because you know as well as I do talking to people is very different to talking to people that are in a camera lens and even that's very different to talking to a camera.
Yeah.
With no one even behind it. You know what I mean?
He's got no camera on at that point either. Like, we turn camera off because It's. It's a 45 minute pitch.
Yeah. Right.
So it's too much for him to be on camera for that time. He needs to be able like drink water, wipe his face.
Yeah.
You know, so it's camera off. Just. It's a fucking PowerPoint.
Yeah. Right.
And that PowerPoint is long and everyone's like, just get to the like thing already. But we just.
So he's narrating the PowerPoint as he plays it.
Yeah. And we have testimonials and we have like seven price anchors and price drops.
Do you ever consider just like hit and play like on a time you did it especially well.
Yes. Yeah. We would like to turn into an evergreen.
Yeah.
But it's like we would have to specifically do one with the intent of making it an evergreen. Where we're very careful what we say, but like, we do it so well. There's always people going, this isn't live. There's always people. And I go, I'm flattered you think we're not doing this live. And people are like, put up a 1 5. You know, I mean, they're like, oh, it's bullshit. Like, this is all fake comments. Like, because it's so polished now. Like, you know, so I would love to do it as never.
Well, I remember the like, first couple of times you did it here and it was like, we got a challenge. It's a whole thing. Like we got. And now it's like, oh, we're doing a Challenge.
Yeah.
Like, it's just. It's all together.
Yeah, It's. It's a good system. They're phenomenal ways to, like, kick up revenue and end up, like, spending a ton of money, but you get so much back, and then, like, you can rest your ad accounts for, like, a month afterwards and go upsell. So, like, the way that Marco has it, he's got it so dialed in now. It's such an impressive feat of marketing to be able to do that consistently. The first time we did it, we got this fucking challenge consultant, and everything he said was fucking trash.
Oh, really?
Trash?
We paid him, like, 50 grand. He wanted 100. It was like, the first payment. I was like, all right. Anyway, like, nothing worked. All the conversions were shit. And then we just went, you know what? If this is what the whole industry is doing, let's just do everything our own way.
Yeah.
And then we did it our own way, and it works way better. And now we, you know, we spend 150,000 on ads. We get 12,000 leads.
Yeah. Yeah.
We, like, our Facebook groups now got 57,000 people in it.
Wow.
Yeah. Like, it's a big group. A lot of people come in from the challenges, and then they stay. And even they don't buy or they. Even if they don't attend the challenge, they stay in the ecosystem.
Yeah, yeah.
You come. You keep working at them.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's good, though. It's interesting. But we probably got to go.
Yeah.
What time is it?
Time passed.
Oh, yeah. I got to go. Yeah.
All right, guys. If you like this kind of content, make sure you, like, subscribe. If you listened all the way to the end, good for you. You did it.
Yeah.
Good for you. Join the Cult Babies closing code.
Right.
Join the Cult babies closing code. 50 bucks a week. What's it to you? You've been listening to this podcast for three years. You would have made a million dollars by now.
You have to have. That's what the. The old intro used to say.
Exactly.
I've been listening. I think it probably has worked out.
All right.
All right, guys.
Bye.
Put that coffee down.
