What Elite Sales Managers Do Daily

This meeting is being recorded.

Hey Connor, how are you?

Yeah, I'm good.

Surprised to see you.

Yeah, yeah, first one of the year.

Gotta get on that discount coaching, bro.

Yeah, bro, it's a good one.

It's good stuff. All right, Holden's coming in. Sweet. Perfect. Just let Holden in. How are you guys finding the, um, how are you guys finding the sort of the videos, the coaching modules and stuff? Because, um, it's pretty extensive with like what Matt has on his, uh, on his membership.

Um, do you mean in relation to you, Jack?

No, no, just like Matt's stuff. Like, because, you know, obviously you get the— you don't just get the meats, do you? You get like some form of education, do you not?

Yeah, we get access to a Notion module. Yeah, yeah.

How do you find that? Is it beneficial at all, or, or anything you, you would want to see more of, or anything like that?

Uh, I haven't seen it in a second, probably about a week, but last time I checked it, I think it was just the structure of it. There's a lot of knowledge, it's just navigating around it.

Okay, well, I think Yeah, go ahead.

I, I've just heard that, um, it's pretty good. I've heard that, um, saying that the Patreon's a bit better structured according to Matt Ryder, and that the YouTube one's a little not as structured.

Yeah, um, that makes sense. The Patreon, but, um, and, um, go ahead.

Yeah, there also seems to be some missing from the Patreon when you compare it to like what's Discord, YouTube. There's like a bunch of videos that are unlisted or I can't access them.

Okay, cool. Okay. Um, I can at least say for the fact that if you're ever in a situation where there's a lot and maybe it's even a matter of structure, it really comes down to like, um, the way Matt structured it potentially is not that it's a rote 0 to 100, A to Z. It's like you go in and you should be able to identify your problem. And I think these meetings are good for helping you identify what your constraint is. And then you can go to the education for it, or, you know, potentially before you discuss it on a meeting or outside of a meeting, then you can go to the education, try to find what you're looking for, and then the knowledge will be there and valuable, and then you can confirm it on the meetings. But, but cool, I just wanted to get an idea on that. Perfect. So let's let Philip in and we'll get, we'll get cracking. But Connor, you were in the waiting room first. So why don't you ask the first question?

Well, mine's pretty specific because I, um, so, um, I've got an interview coming up with one of your private coaching clients on Thursday, um, because you probably know who he is. He's stepping into management. So, um, okay. Yeah, if you— I wouldn't say his name just because, um, and I've gone through his interview process and I know just because you've been coaching him on management Yeah. Like, would you have any specific advice for, I'm hopeful, you know, in going through that?

Pretty straightforward, man. The way that I teach managers to interview is the primary objective for an interview is to assess two things. One is the commitment level and the other is the aptitude slash trainability. The experience level, I always get across to managers that it's not as important because, uh, so many people BS their experience, uh, or they'll wrap a label. They'll say, I was on an account that was at a million a month, when like that doesn't mean anything for the rep. But managers can maybe fall for that, uh, they can convey they sold something very expensive. You just don't know what they're willing to say. Whereas I always tell sales managers, just like anyone, uh, interviewing someone, is always go and look for show, don't tell. Right? So as an interviewee, you can reverse engineer that. It's like, and you honestly want to be doing this in the right way. You don't want to be BSing because they'll see through that in other aspects. But like, uh, if someone said to me, okay, you're going, uh, like they would ask me on an interview, they would say, okay, let's say that we sat down and we hired you, and then, uh, I gave you the script and I gave you some leads, and I, and I went away for 3 months. When I come back, like, what would I see? The tell version of that for an interviewee would be saying, oh, I would be, I would be so good, I'd make so many sales, I'd make sure you wouldn't even have to look out for, like, I'll do all this stuff right, right? And it's, and it's just like a bit— I think the fundamental problem with it is that it just assumes that the interviewer is going to believe you because you're telling them that you'll get this result. Whereas the show version of that, you could do in two ways. You could say, well, I would do it much the same that I have done in previous experience for other accounts where I did this, this, and this. So if you can use experience in that case where you would say, not experience like, oh, I've sold these things, but more specifically with a follow-up, you'd say like, um, I regularly, uh, met my dial KPI every single day on, on other KPI, on other accounts. If you sold another account, if it's a closing role, it's like, um, I regularly ensured that I could, that I was maximizing my show-up rate with other accounts because I always made an effort to contact my prospects before the call. I always, uh, I had a clean system in the CRM to ensure that our follow-ups didn't get left by the wayside. And see, these are like actual things that have happened. It's showing. And in other cases, you don't have experience doing it, but you would, you would be just tactical in the way that you explain it. And you would say, oh, okay. Um, so if someone said that, like, I left you for 90 days, what would I come back and see? I'd say, well, I would make sure that outside of getting any advice off people that are doing that well already within your account, I would make sure that my inbox and my SOP for reaching out to all of my leads was a system and wasn't just random. I would also make sure that I go into all of the, uh, suppose like dead leads to do dead lead recovery and essentially all the hustle muscle work inside of the CRM and not just essentially, um, you would see at the end of it that I'd, uh, I made a systematic, systematic effort to reach out to all of the dead leads, all of the no-shows that salespeople aren't trying to get in contact with. And I would just make sure I have a system around that. So when you came back, you would both see my process and the result of not just meeting the regular targets, but exceeding them. And the way that you would convey that to the interviewer is not in an excited way. You just make sure you're saying it in a matter-of-fact way. Okay? Does that make sense? So it's just a bit of an example, but you don't want to tell them how good you are. You want to show them and let them assess how good you are based on your process for anything with the manager. You know what I mean? So if you haven't done it, like experience is always going to trump it because they're like, okay, this worked. But if you don't have the experience, you should get clarity on what you need to do. And that's where like getting education around the right way to do something even before you've done it is important. So say with— if Matt has the education around it, you should understand, like, you know, if you— like, you— I know he has a great process around getting referrals, right? Just because it's what I use. So if someone in interview asked me how I did referrals and I don't do refer— haven't done referrals, I would say this is the way that I would do it. If I had done it, I would say— because I have— I would say the way that I do it is this and explain. Instead of saying, oh, you know, I'm actually really good at it, like, I get all of my clients to like get referral, like get referrals off them all, you know, like follow up and stuff. See, it's very wishy-washy brief. It's not very tactical and doesn't explain that you would actually do it and show that you have laser focus. So I think those are the things. If you can show clarity of thought in your interviews, okay, clarity of thought, that's very important because we look for intelligent people. They don't have to be smart. I dropped out of school, right? But just clarity of thought that they would push. And the other, and that's gonna give the interviewer a sign that you have aptitude and you're like, okay, this guy's not stupid. He'll be able to be trained. 'Cause the biggest concern for a manager is that they're gonna bring you on, maybe you even have a good commitment level, but you're just not, you just can't pick it up. Like I'm gonna be reviewing your calls, I'm gonna be giving you the call review. You're gonna need to go work on it before our one-on-one. Then on our one-on-one, we're gonna role play. I'd like to see the hockey, like eventually you don't have to be great in the— after the first meeting, but I just want to see you getting better, right? And then I know that I, I don't have to cut you loose early. I can, I can expect you to get into KPI within those 50 calls, right? So they need to see the aptitude. And, and, and like, I was intelligent in school, but I dropped out. Why? Because I didn't care. So if you don't have commitment, you won't unlock your intelligence, you won't unlock your aptitude. So the interviewer needs to see that you want it in a calm but very hungry manner. And that's shown not by saying how much you want it, but how much you're willing to do. And that's kind of answered. If you ever hear a question from an interviewer that sounds like it's questioning your attitude, you just want to be honest and show what you would actually do. That will test to show your commitment, and then the aptitude will kind of come through in the clarity of your thought and the intelligence of your answers. You don't have to be genius, you just have to be honest. It should come out. When you don't try and you're just doing the right thing, it's way fucking easy to go about job and life. Uh, you'll get the job. Everyone else is capping, telling you stuff. And like, I've been able to tell within like 2 minutes I'm not gonna hire this person just because they're BSing. Whereas another guy would just try to— will be humble, probably a little shaking on the interview. The amount of guys I've hired with no experience is insane, and some of them were shaking on the interview. But I'm like, I see past it. I'm like, it's just a moment for him, but that's not what it's gonna be like in 2 weeks if he gets the position. So I can see past it and I can kind of see like, um, through that and see like, this guy just really wants this job. And I can see he's intelligent when he answers other questions and he gets away from the nerves a little bit cuz he's deep in answering a question. And I can see, put 2 and 2 together and be like, this is gonna be a good fit over some guy that's just chest beating and telling you how good he's gonna be and trying to show off. So really try to be honest because, uh, it allows me Last thing I'll say, if you're a 6 out of 10, but you're honest, I'm hiring you over an 8 out of 10 that's being dishonest because he's not an 8 out of 10. He's making me think he is and he really thinks that I can't see it. So just try to be yourself. Just try to be real honest and show, and if you really want the job and you have done the work to try to make yourself an easier or better trainable salesperson, you'll do well in the interview. So how to do well in an interview is really done before. Does that answer your question?

That was something very incredible insight, actually. That was super helpful. I've also gone through his— he's already put together like for other guys, like, um, well, he made it for a few other guys, just like an interview prep for other roles. So I've gone through his own, his own tips for other people to land offers.

And so, um, I have no idea who you're talking about because I, I, um You've already coaching, so yeah, it doesn't matter.

It's all good.

Perfect, man. It was a good question though. I think it'd definitely be valuable to people, but cool. Jess, do you want to ask a question?

Yeah, I do. First of all, Jack, I wanted to say that I implemented the no-show advice that you gave. So I brought, yeah, revived more leads, which really helped. And also, sorry, I just forgot. Yeah, so I did that, which really helped. What I wanted to ask you specifically is in regards to doing solo core reviews. And also you mentioned dead lead recovery because I'm trying to work with the CRM because no one's really touched it.

Yeah, yeah, yep. Okay, cool. So in terms of solo core reviews, primarily you want to be doing gold standard if there's anyone doing better in your account, right? So if you're not the top rep, you should be really listening to this. Uh, for example, with one of my one-on-one coaching clients the other day, I got him to send me 2 gold standard calls because he's like 4th in the leaderboard. There's like 15 reps in this account, and he sent me the 2 calls from the top, the 1st and 2nd best closer. And we— and I really identified pretty quickly what's happening, but I was able to do that. And I think he's listened to the calls, he's pretty good, and I don't know how well he was able to identify, uh, what it was that was, that was doing well. But basically what I could get out of it is the, the process, like the tactical questions they ask, they can help but if you're already doing pretty good. But if you're somewhere in the middle leaderboard, you're trying to ramp up or you're struggling, uh, listening to gold standard calls can be a bit risky because you might not be able to identify what they're doing well. But if you can focus your attention on something when listening to great calls, it's listen to the— the broader you can go, the better. So don't listen to the tiny little questions he's asking. Look at the direction he's going, and that's dictated by really like what are the sort of the phases he's following. Right. And, and you might hear, for example, some accounts, like for example this one, they come in very light goal, right? Very light in the way they ask it the first time. And if the prospect doesn't give an emotional answer, then they'll loop on it, right? And then from there they go into, uh, they pretty much go straight into situation. And in this case, in this account, they don't really get much problem, right? They don't really go for heavy problem. And this is like Matt talks about, you don't need to go into all the tactics, like all the little details and nitty-gritty details about how bad their problem is and all the pain. It's more so what are they doing to solve the problem. You can hear that in the questions. Like, you need to think about like, what's he trying to get here when you're listening to the calls, right? Like, what is he trying to do? He's not really trying to spend time asking how painful it is. He's more so trying to clarify, um, what the guy's doing to solve the problem. And I identified the reason for that is because he's really just as soon as possible, within about 6 minutes, trying to get the prospect to essentially say, I've tried everything, it doesn't work, therefore I need something else, right? And that's, that's good logic. Instead of spending all this time getting all this pain from this, like, maybe it's potentially more sophisticated person, he's, uh, heading very more efficiently going, okay, like, you have this goal Where are you at now? As soon as you hear something in, in, to the degree that you're not there, like, oh, I'm, I'm trying to get to retirement in 5 years and my trajectory is just not heading there. Oh, why is that? These reasons. Doesn't go in all this pain, just goes like, why is it made important to you for you to fix it now? Maybe get a bit of rationale behind that and then really looking to move into like, okay, what do you, what's your process now for trying to get there? And then getting like either a rationale question will eliminate that DIY. Or just hearing it somewhere that the current process is not working so that they, in that call, after about 5 minutes, they spend really two-thirds of the call in ideal criteria, getting all this like nitty-gritty of what the person needs, right? And then they pitch for like literally like more than a third of the call. It's like a long pitch. See, I could hear that on that call by listening to two gold standard calls from that account. And that's why I was able to convey that to the client, and then the client can cut out some of the fat he was doing. Well, he was doing a bit of the opposite. He was, uh, going way too tactical into their current approach that hasn't worked, like, way too, way too long, uh, and not doing ideal criteria. I said, you need to— as soon as they— it doesn't really matter why, almost doesn't even matter why it's not working, it's just that it isn't. Just don't spend so much time in there. They don't— they get, they get sick of it. Like, don't stop asking about their strategy. It's a trading offer. Like, don't spend all their time asking about all this strategy. Half the time they don't know, they're going to give you the wrong info. And like, yeah, and like, it doesn't matter. They've admitted it, it doesn't work.

Mhm.

That's all, that's all you need. Just get a rationale and try to get them to solve it and then move on. So say if you, if you can sort of identify that, that direction on the call from reviewing other people's calls is good. For reviewing your own calls, I really think that you have to be— it helps, it definitely helps, but listening to others is way better that are doing better. It— listening to your own calls does help for when you're probably already quite good and you're looking to optimize. Like, I listen to my PSO calls, uh, so that I can optimize like marketing and stuff like that and just see pain points. And like, oh yeah, this guy said the same thing, how did I go saying that? But it's really just performative, uh, benefits reviewing, like how I said something. Like what I sound like, because I know what I said, I know the direction I was going, I know my process. It's more you go back and listen to your calls, and maybe in the beginning you might cringe a little bit at how you're coming off, and you'll see your low status. Those are the things you might miss on the call. Uh, so listening back to them can help you kind of see how you conduct yourself. But I really just think listening to Gold Standard is, is the, uh, the way to go, right?

Yeah. How do— can I just ask, uh, Jack, when you say find out what he's doing or what direction he's going in, like, yeah, Yeah, what does that actually like mean specifically?

So, okay, so if we look at a standard like off-the-script B2C call, we're looking at like, God, we look at like connecting phase, situation questions, problem awareness, like that would you consider the direction, right? You could even get a little bit deeper than that. It's like in situation, how long does he spend asking about it and how, and then how quickly does he get into problem? Right? What does he spend more time in problem getting 3 problems, or does he move through and just get to what are you doing to solve this big problem? Does he spend time getting how long is it going on? Like, how long is it going on to me isn't like a big question in problem awareness. It's important, but it's, it's more so part of the problem itself. It's more so like, what is the problem? How long has it been going on? You know? Um, but it's not like what's made it important for you to fix this problem now. That's like a bit it's a bit of a direction change because you're kind of ending the phase. You're just— let's talk about like the importance of solving it. You're probably not going to come back. So I look at the direction it's going as it, as it pertains to moving to each phase on call. So do they— does like, for the example, this with this client, they go— they literally ask about 3 questions in, in connecting about how long have you known about this person, what got you attracted to them. Oh, interesting. What's got you interested in that? Then goal, right? Then situation, not very long, not very long in problem. Ideal criteria is quite a while. And then, um, then they pitch and they spend the rest of the call like literally doing this long-ass pitch. That's like a direction and speed of phases. That's what you should be listening to for gold standard for other people and looking at your offer and looking at your process and going like, what am I doing now that doesn't align with that? What is the most significant difference between mine and theirs? Like, I get too much in the weeds with problem and, uh, not enough on ideal criteria. Those big levers are what's gonna give you, uh, a big change. And then, you know, changing little ways that you ask questions can help, but it's not as big of a difference. You wanna look for— everyone has their own style, sure. But it's usually like that, that direction and what's discussed and what's not discussed as much. Is if it's working, which is validated by the fact that the rep is doing very well in their gold standard. If it's working, it's because it matches the avatar. Like the avatar, like for example, if you're, if you're selling to more sophisticated people, they have unfulfilled desire and not so much pain, which is like, I'm already doing well, I want to do better, and I can't really work out how to get to that next level. That would make sense that you would have that process where you don't spend forever in problem. You're more talking about how we're gonna get you to the next level. Right? That's, that's that the process matches, not like the way you go, you sound confused in the way you ask the question. Like you can't, you could try to ram your like super like emotional problem, like low, lower ticket, high ticket, B2C, any NPQ style on some sophisticated person. It doesn't matter how well you ask the question. If you're asking the wrong questions, those, that's gonna be a problem. That's why when you review the calls, of gold standard, you want to work out what are they focusing on in the process. Like, what's the— what's spent more time on, right? And then with your process, you need to look at it and go, what is my biggest marked difference between mine and theirs? And really try to, uh, taper in on theirs. And then when it comes to— when you're near that, then you can review your own calls against gold standard and go, like, again, like, how do I sound compared to that? And a bit of the frame thing. It's like, some reason a lot of salespeople just don't pick up on how they're coming off, how they're perceived. And I think that's a big benefit of listening to your own calls. Okay, you know what I mean?

Thank you. Yeah, cool.

Um, any other questions on that before I go to the follow-up one, or the, the, the other question you had?

Uh, not on that. I think I spoke with Saxon about it before. Um, but that really helps. Thank you.

Okay, cool. And then just real quick, What was your second question?

So the question I mentioned was dead lead recovery. If anything, if just to give context, Jack, so pretty much it's CRM optimization on a, the CRM hasn't really been touched and I want to leverage it. I know we spoke of no-shows, but you know what I mean?

Okay. So, so yeah, you just want to, you want to really look at, if you look at all, if you're a closer, and you go into the CRM and you look at all the leads that are really— it's really all of them, but you probably want it— the first step you want to do is obviously look at all the type, the statuses of all the leads that are in your CRM and start to really triage the most important one, the most lucrative ones, right? So in some cases, like if your account allows you to do your own outbound setting or like from opt-ins, that could potentially be far more lucrative than like a 40-day-old no-show, right?

Mm-hmm.

Even though they're not, they haven't been set yet, you really wanna work out what's the criteria for what makes one more valuable. Because even though an opt-in hasn't yet been booked, they, they, you know, oftentimes for a B2C account, like the opt-in is actually way higher leverage than calling your no-shows. So for example, I've had, I've managed accounts where the first activity, once a closer finishes their bookings or gets a no-show, is to not follow up with the no-show like crazy because they just didn't come back, was to, uh, set their own appointments.

Okay, right.

So that's like the— that's like your, your opt-ins. That's like top of funnel, right? And then you can start to work down to like, you know, they had a conversation with a setter but weren't booked and they're not going to get followed up with. That's next. So you should have activities in your day where you come in and you go, okay, here's my bookings. No-show, Actions on no-show. Call opt-ins. No opt-ins, call day 2s. No day 2s, call day 3s. No day 3s, call day 4s. Then you don't call day 5s maybe because the pickup rate just drops to zero. And you go to people who had a conversation with a setter before but haven't been spoken to in a week. Right? If there's none of those, move to your next activity, which is all, uh, 7-day-old no-shows. Or more, between just around, like within 7 days, say. If there's none of those, go to your 14 days. If none of those, just go to your 30 days. If none of those, go to your follow-ups, like dead lead recovery where the closer just has a fake follow-up after 7 days or something, and then call those, and then call the next ones. You should just have a list, which is just an order of priorities based on which ones are the most lucrative for your time, right? And after a while, if you could actually systemize it, if you really think about it, if you marked in your end of day journal or something like that, that at like 12 until 1, you only called, say, opt-ins and day ones and day twos. If you booked one appointment out of that, you could literally work out what your commission per hour is for that activity or that lead source. So you could say, whenever I call opt-ins, day ones and day twos, in that case, maybe that guy was just a day, was just an opt-in, but it's still like, it could have come from the other one if you did it enough days. But often day 1, day 2, uh, you made a sale there from calling someone up and you booked them in for yourself and closed them. You can work out, well, that gives me this.

Mhm.

And you know, that g— that like every, like every hour I do of, of op— of, uh, my own self-setting gets me like whatever it is, you know? Uh, and then whatever, like you could do 2 hours of calling no-shows and, and book 2 people in and none of them buy. You just need to do it a bit more. One of them buys. Okay, cool. You work out that it literally took you 2 hours to get 1 sale, right? So if you've got $1,000 commission, how much— what's your hourly rate? You get $500 because you did 2 hours for $1,000.

Okay.

So you get $500. So you— and then you can rank which ones make you more money and then prioritize them and start, uh, and start like prioritizing what is the— because it's a gold mine, you want to identify where are the parts of the gold mine that are going to give you more work for your sweat, and then, and then go into it.

Yeah, thank you, Jack. I guess what I was trying to do is be a hero, and like, because status, like, no one— it hasn't been touched, and it, like, even with statuses and stuff. So I was like, okay, I'll go in and fix everything. But by the sounds of it, no, just focus on one thing at a time.

Yeah, you just want to do what I said, really. You just want to go in and, and hit, uh, new leads hit day ones, day twos, day threes, hit no-shows, hit follow-ups, get referrals. Like, just, just in the beginning, start wide. And for your account, you'll identify— because I can't see in your CRM— you'll identify where there is money and where there is no money. And when there's no money, just, just move your efforts to, I think, because 1 hour of work on something that's lucrative could be more higher commission per hour than 4 hours on something that just doesn't But you don't want to get, you want to hustle muscle, definitely lean towards hustle than being too smart for your own good. But you definitely don't want to just push a wall when you should just be doing the right type of follow-up. Cool?

Yeah. Thanks, Jack.

Perfect. All right, sweet. Let's go to Holden, bro. What's going on?

So a while ago, you, I'm with Committed Coaches, just so you have some context. Um, you said the center of gravity for sophisticated buyers, getting them to admit that they can't do it without you.

Yeah.

Yes.

In a way. Yes.

I'm just wondering.

It's the first step. It's the first step. Yeah, go ahead.

But what's like the center of gravity for like an unsophisticated buyer, right? That's like overweight, wants to lose the weight. Because I just want to make sure that I'm focusing on the right part of the call.

What's— what's the pain? Then it's just pain, right? But it depends. It's like, okay, so it's pain. But that's just the first step. You really want to look at— imagine 3 diamonds, the unsophisticated people. The first one is pain, right? Only once pain is prevalent in the call can you achieve the second diamond, which is, uh, limiting beliefs removed, right? Because you can't— you— no one's like— what do they say, uh, you need to be cured of your stubbornness through disappointment. So people won't question their limiting beliefs until they're in enough pain. So once you get enough pain, then you can head into phases like objection finding and start asking like why they haven't done anything about it, why they haven't done anything to get to their goals. Whereas if you try to do that as soon as you jump in the call without enough problem or pain, then they won't admit it. They'll be like, oh yeah, but there's like loads of scams, right?

And is it their current pain that they're actually in or the pain of them not achieving their goal?

No, the current pain they're in. To be motivated to make a change. Yeah. And then, and then more so like the pain they're in right now. And then the unsophisticated people, it's more going to be the— you don't go so much into quote-unquote pain, but sophisticated people, it's more about what they're not going to achieve and the FOMO of that. So you can call that what you want, pain, whatever you— but with an unsophisticated person, you want to get the dissatisfaction with their current situation, right? The reason for it, which is the cause, and the effect is the pain. And then you can start removing limiting beliefs. This is like the second diamond, right? Which is, why do you feel like, you know, like, what, what have you been doing to solve the problem? Nothing. Why is that? I lost motivation. Okay, can I make a suggestion to you? Should we really rely on motivation as opposed to a process that we can rely on? Like, you know what I mean?

So they bought a supplement, and the marketing more or less told them like This is going to solve all that problem.

If you're— if we are talking committed, by the way, that process, that, that process is very simple with committed. It's just you, you get problem up to the degree they're willing to admit it. Then don't try and fight these like 67-year-old people on problem. They just literally don't admit it, that they haven't— they'll like just circle around it forever. All you do is pivot to solution and you just go, okay, let's just like say like, where do we want to be? Like, where— how do we want to look? What do you look like when you stand on the scale and you look in the mirror? Like, how do you feel? I feel so good. I look like this. Okay. And what do you feel like that person does differently? Yeah. That's really allowing them to be where they are. And like, you know, what do they do differently? And the person's like, oh, they never cheat on their diet. They never do this. They never do that. That's them admitting what they're not doing now and taking accountability for it in a reverse manner. Right. So do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

They just, they're just a little bit stubborn when you admit problems sometimes. If they do admit it, great. If they don't, you just have to reverse engineer it with solution and get them to lay out, like, uh, reverse engineer it with desire and tell them, like, let's have a look at, like, where you want to be, what that person does differently. And they're going to tell you, uh, what they're not doing now. Then the big thing is, you'll see with, like, Godwin, what he was doing is you really just need to, um, you need to connect with them so deeply on an identity level, right? And you need to identify what type of person are they, like Is it the grandma that wants to grow old with the grandkids and be there? And that's where you can be like, okay, well, you know, I understand, you know, you as a grandma, like, you're kind of the, I guess, the matriarch, right? Like, you got to overlook everyone and make sure they're taken care of. And oftentimes you're putting yourself second, right? And the person's like, yeah. And you're like, okay, and can I ask a, you know, a personal question? Yeah, go ahead. 'Are you open to the idea that for you to really be able to put your family first for the next 20 years, that you might need to put yourself first for, you know, a short period of time and actually, you know, like put yourself first? Are you open to that?' And the person's like, 'Yeah, yeah, I am.' And then you question it. You're like, 'No, but seriously, I get it, but are you really open to it?' And you slow down and they're like, 'Yeah, I am.' Yeah. Okay. Well, why do you feel like you are though? And then get them to start rationalizing why. Oftentimes with the female older prospects, in that case of that avatar, you need to really connect with who they are and get them to put themselves first. Cuz it's oftentimes why they don't do it. Or with their partner, if they're gonna, if she's like worried about being more attractive for her husband and she's older, you need to get her to like put herself first that so that the family can be taken care of and all that good stuff. Yeah. So you need to connect with them on an identity level. And you really need to focus on massive emotional pull on the North Star dream outcome, especially if you run into stubbornness. And then you'll find that your calls, like I saw for months and months and months, Godwin and other guys doing really well, their calls are 30 minutes and they barely get objections. And you got these other people like 50 minutes with all these objections and they don't make a sale. It's like a 5-pay. You know. So you really want to make sure— Matt's the guy, like, yeah, how he talks about it is like, it's really not a lot about the problem, it's more about the pull of the dream outcome and connecting on an identity level and start labeling and doing stories and stuff like that, as opposed to really trying to do the— that, that's— there is a way of selling fitness where they're just like hard accountability and you're like, you know, making like admit all this shit, and it just doesn't, it doesn't work that well on committed from what I've seen.

Yeah, cool.

Thank you.

Yeah, do you have any questions on that?

No, it's pretty clear. I'm gonna go try and, you know, get better.

Okay, cool. Uh, awesome. Philip, you have any questions?

Uh, yeah. Okay, can you hear me?

Yep.

Okay, cool. Uh, so I am in like home remodeling sales. Uh, the leads are from like canvassing, like door knockers. We mostly do like, uh, uh, like roofs and paint and coating and this kind of stuff. Um, so I go through my whole pitch, uh, like my whole process with the company. I do like an inspection and then a report, and then I pitch them. And like 9 times out of 10, I get a lot of like, okay, wow, you guys seem really good, everything seems real great. You know, I didn't even know that this was a problem, you know, so you're the first bid that I've gotten, and so I'm just gonna need to compare bids. You know, like our company, the process that we're like really pushed hard to do a one-call close model, and like even like manufacture a certain amount of like fake urgency, like there's a deal today, you got to move forward, you know, and yeah. Like a lot of times if I really push that, then people are like, they feel like, what are you doing? This is starting to not feel good. And then, yeah, I'm just, my close rate is not high enough and a lot of got to compare bids kind of thing.

Okay. And how long is your process, the inspection?

I would say the inspection part is probably like 15, 20 minutes. And then the pitch is probably like another, it ends up being like another 15, 20 minutes.

And you do those separate? Or is it the same? Back to back?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all, it's all like I'll be at a house for like an hour or sometimes even like more.

Yeah, so your discovery is 15 minutes, your pitch is 15 minutes. What about this report? What's that about? Is that—

what is that? I mean, just like, you know, I'm like taking pictures of their roof. I'm taking pictures of whatever kind of things I see. I talk about like the issues that it's going to cause and I'll like talk to them about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. And then after the pitch, just walk me through the duration and what phase you cover. What do you do next after the pitch? You just try and close them?

Pretty much, yeah, yeah. Like, I go through the pitch, I talk about the, the company, and, and then, like, and I don't really reveal price until, you know, after the pitch. And then, you know, uh, the goal is to, like, throughout the time that I'm with them before, have a certain amount of price conditioning.

Let's start, but potentially the epistemic problem. What's, what's your discovery process? Walk me through the questions that you ask them. How do you approach the And you do this in person, you say? Sorry, this is all in person, correct? So yeah, walk me through the questions you ask.

Uh, yeah, so I'll be like, how long have you owned this home? Sorry, it's like 4 in the morning. Uh, it's— I'll ask them like, how long have you owned the home? Like, what kind of work have you done in the past? What's your past experiences with contractors? What was good? What was not good?

Um, uh, you know, like, super important.

I mean, like, I will, uh, it's— the discovery is more like trying to find things wrong with the house and, and like, like that. I mean, that's inspection, you know, like, yeah.

What are those questions? Not the questions like, what's your background working with companies that do it? Like, what do you, what do you ask?

Uh, I mean, it's, it's more like actually looking at the house and taking and like, okay, how come you haven't handled this before? Like, how long you, you want, you want, you're like gonna keep avoiding this? And like, and then I start, I talk about like issues that are going to happen with the house if they don't, if they don't take action, you know. And at the end they're like, wow, this is, thank you so much. This, now I'm really gonna take action on it, but you know, I gotta compare bids, you know? I'm like, fuck, I'm, you know.

If, look, I can't tell because you're just telling me the questions. They sound okay. You wanna make sure you're executing them well. That like the questions when you finally got to like the problems you're asking to raise their awareness of the problem. The only other thing you could be doing there is just using a bit of like, aware, raising their awareness that everyone else in the street has done it because they're all responsible, right? And it's an identity thing. That's where you get the identity sale with selling that stuff, right? But you want to be, look, if you're doing indeed doing all these things correctly, then you should, what are you doing to objection handle when they say it? Like what do you do? Anything? You say, okay, cool, go shop around for prices or what do you do?

No, no, I'll like end my presentation and like, before, I'll be like, okay, like, based off of the, the what we went over, like, the process in our company, you know, what sort of questions can I answer? You know, how do you, how would you feel good about moving forward? Like this kind of thing.

And they're like, just stop that. Cut that. Don't ask the prospect at the end of the pitch. Sure, you can say like, okay, that process that I walked through, do you have any questions around the process specifically? You can ask that. And see, I say process twice. So I guess that, that process of how we'd help you solve X problem and get to X outcome. Do you have any questions around that process specifically?

Mm-hmm.

And they say, this, that, and the other. You want to keep them contained within the offer. That's all they really need to ask questions about, right? Don't fish for questions. Say, is there anything, is there any questions I could answer for you? It sends their brain off looking for problems that don't matter because your pitch covers the only things that matter, right? So don't, so just make sure you solve for that. The other thing, it really can come through that, but you get, do you guys feel like, I guess based on that, if we were to help you get, do that and solve this problem, do you feel like that, do you feel like that would help? Do you feel like that would be the answer for you? You covered that. And then from there, when you go for the order, when you ask for the order, if they say they're going to shop around, then you, then you start needing to go into two-prong. One is you can go for the more direct approach is, are you ultimately looking for the cheapest option or the option that's gonna get you the best result, right? You can go for that or you can go for the less, if you want to play the long game, right? Which typically works like a lot if you execute it well, is to ask them, okay, is you play a hypothetical and you do conditions of satisfaction, which is you go, okay, it's no problem. I hear you want to make sure you get the best price. Obviously assuming, right? Like just so we're clear, assuming that you get the same level of quality, right? Like, I'm sure you wouldn't be wanting to pay less to get less, and then your house wouldn't be as safe, whatever it is, right? The person's like, yeah, yeah, of course, I want to get the same thing you, you, you, sir, you're selling, but for the, for less price. Okay, let's play pretend for a second and say, you know, you do go around and you, and you, you see other, other, I guess, companies, uh, and and ultimately, you know, they offer something less and it is cheaper. Like, what will you do from that point? And the person's like— and then you'll see if they're like, no, I would come to you, then you can, uh, then you can book a follow-up and go meet up with them again and try to get the date when they're actually going to do it. Because a lot of these people are not going to do it. They don't have the clarity over when they're going to go to speak to other companies. They were never going to. And that will tell you that it was not really an object— it wasn't really a real objection. You'll say, okay, and, and just roughly so I know, just to put it in my diary, uh, roughly when would you be looking to speak to other companies, uh, to identify a cheaper price? And they're like, oh, um, uh, and they're just going to make it up right there and then because they're never going to do it. They're like— and you can actually get them to start doing it. They'll be like, oh, okay, we're gonna call a few companies, uh, next month. Anyway, okay, not a problem. And just so I understand, like, what do you feel might be the reason why you would take a month to speak with those companies, assuming that like, you know, it's a phone call away type of thing for those other companies. And the person's like, oh, well, you know, and then you can go at that point, if they're like, I don't know, that's where you can finally get it out. And we both admit that it was like BS, it was value. And go, okay, can I make a suggestion to you? Yeah, if this ultimately, you know how you said before XYZ reason these things are important to you? This is important for you to solve? Yeah, yeah, I remember. Okay, well ultimately, if you feel like that's the case, suggestion I make is that, you know, it's only a phone call away and those companies, you know, potentially you can have a discussion with those people this week and then next week we could have a discussion of it if you found someone and if you did and it was cheaper and it was the same service, then ultimately we can, you know, shake hands and part ways. But if you weren't able to identify someone, then we can have a further discussion. And then from there, that way you're actually, you know, God forbid, moving closer to solving this problem, right? So you actually create like more of a long-term plan. It's just like real estate. Like you're not gonna one-call close a lot of people in real estate, right? But what you can do and what separates people, 'cause everyone's trying to sell my parents' house. They all knock on the door to try to sell my parents' house. And it's just like all of them are so needy for the one-call close, they don't create a plan with the person and get the, the sale on follow-up. And Matt would even admit it, that the 90% close rate doesn't come from one-call closing. It comes from incredible follow-up. And that comes from if they don't buy on the first meeting, then it's being in their corner and helping them and being a bit of a planner saying like, go speak to those companies this week, we'll speak next week. And they either won't speak with the companies next week or they do and don't find something as good. 'But at least you've got it in the books.' And they say, 'Yeah, we'll speak to them.' Okay, great. So, okay, cool. Now what I can do so that it helps— don't go, 'If can I please say—' What I can do just so it helps is I can just put it in my diary 7 days from now, uh, just to, you know, make sure that you're in the best position. You've either found that company or not. We can have a further discussion. Would that be appropriate? Yes. And then you can go and— I would go back to these people and follow up and just go back and say How did it go for you? And you can just close these people in two because your company's saying you need a one-call close or nothing. I'm sure they have some story behind it. I would hope they at least have some story behind it, some excuse. But ultimately I could have, um, half, like I could like not close as many people in the first, first meeting, but close almost everyone on the second or third. And as long as it doesn't clog up my day speaking to new, new people, it's a net benefit overall. You know, um, you really have to, you have to consider it because if you're working in commoditized, uh, offers, like I have clients that are in like say real estate, right? Education services, different real estate offers. And potentially these people think they're gonna go shop around, but the difference maker is how well you conduct the discovery, how custom it feels compared to every other company. Doing the same thing. And then the pitch needs to feel custom, which is old way, old result, new way, new result. It needs to feel like it's— it sounds like it's for them. It doesn't just sound like what our company does, right? It's like going, most people out there trying to get goal they said they wanted, they're doing these problems or things they're doing right now, right? And because of that, they face these consequences, which is what they're going to face. So what we do instead is new way, and the reason why we do that is new result. And you do, if you can do that in a clear way, there's like maybe 2 to 3 pillars of what you do for the people, right? That feels congruent based on discovery. It's lock and key discovery and pitch. And then when you do the presentation, you just ask if they have questions over the process only, not random questions. Then when you go for the order, you have a process for objection handling and identifying, is it value? Is it, is it just, um, they want to do, uh, competitor analysis. If they do, yeah, you can try to handle it and say, you going for the cheapest one? Or they go, no, we're going to go for good. We're going to try to find— it's easy. It's too easy to overcome trying to battle that. So what I've found with all the clients I have that, that they do have a commoditized offer is to have had a great call and then have even better follow-up. Because most sales reps suck at creating a follow-up sale. Is going, what's the plan for you next week to go and identify the other companies? And what happens if you don't find them? What will you do then? Because what it will tell you is if they're tire kickers, because even if they'll say, if we don't find anyone, uh, you know, sort of doing it every day, if we don't find anyone in 2 weeks, we're just going to keep looking. I'm like, okay, how long will you look for until you decide that it's more important to solve the problem than it is to find something $200 cheaper. And the person be like, yeah, that's a good point. I'm like, yes, just I make is like, yeah, fair enough. Like, have a look for 2 weeks and at that point, like, call it if you can't find it. Because ultimately there's, there's a way up of like, find, like, saving $200 and, and ultimately solving this problem, right? Mhm. So you're meeting the person in the middle and then you can meet them in a week and close them. Because if they've got no one else to go to, they're going to go to you. And then you get to the real objections on that second meeting. Then they're going to come out and say, 'Oh, we're just thinking, is it actually going to do this?' I'm like, okay, you could have said this on the first meeting. You're not going to say this to them, but they're going to come out with all these little rationalizations. That just means they're like one inch from buying. You say, yep, we do this, this, and this. Yep, we do this, this, and this. They'll ask you questions. You don't have to ask them if they have any questions around broadly everything. And then you'll close them. And it's closing from tension over time, not pressure. On one call. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So that's the process. I, I'd have to be here for an hour to listen to all your process, but you just want to make sure your discovery is solid, it's lock and key with your pitch, your follow-up is not just smash pressure, it's, it's asking them questions that basically get them to admit that they, they were just never going to do it. Mhm. And then following up, uh, every week, always, forever. Like Ryan Serhan did, followed up every week for 6 years and closed 2 $1 million deals and made like $500 grand in commission. So he got paid, or whatever, more than that. I think he got paid— he followed up with one person for 6 years and then closed, and he got $1 million in commission or something like that because the property was like fucking $100 million. So he got paid— is that $1 million over 6 years? Do the math. What is that? He got paid $300 grand a year to get told no every week. You know, so it's just follow-up. It, it, it'll— it does have its benefit. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's helpful. Yeah, because—

yeah, I'm good. Thank you. Yeah, nice. Yeah, cool. Perfect. Um, awesome. We still have, uh, 10 minutes. Any closing points?

Would you put that grandma, like, identity frame after you future pace them?

Uh, it's a good question. So I would— it's, it's, it's with identity, it's not pasted in. Uh-huh. It's, it's weaved in where you can. Now, if, if we're sort of thinking, okay, Jack, but is it like right at the top of the call, right at the end of the call? It's typically you start doing it after you've tried to get problem, because that way you're not, you're not like taking them out of pain and putting them back in problem. So you head into the call, like logistics, like have we got this address right? Oh, what are you really looking for at this stage of your life? Get goal. Okay, what are you doing now to get there? This thing not working. Why is that? Problem, right? Once you get enough pain and problem, then you can start being pretty obvious with asking where they want to be. Like you're, you're doing a second loop back onto goal because you're not going to spend forever on goal and and then go problem. You just get like a light goal, just enough so that we can talk about something you don't have. Problem. Then when you come out of problem and pain, then you can start going like, what would life be like? What does that person do differently? How important is that to you to be that person? You know, like, and try to find your way in when they're talking about their goals. Like when it comes to getting to this dream outcome, like why is that important to you? They're probably gonna give you a family answer. As soon as you find it, ask him like, why is it important for you to be that person? As soon as you get family, uh, with the older types, you really want to, uh, double down on it and say like, how would he feel if you got that goal? How would she feel? How would your family look at you? And just cook and try to give the call a ton of real estate with identity. Just try to increase the surface area that identity is talked about. In the call and make it a bit of a narrative, you know, like it just keeps coming up like, oh yeah, well, just goes back to that point you said, Holden, right, about, you know, like if I was to sell you sales coaching or something, I would say like, oh yeah, well, it goes back to that point you said, right, about congruence, which means like you said that you felt like, you know, you ultimately had some issues trying to get clients to commit to higher price points, right? It's like if you're able to commit to yourself with sales coaching, then it's easy for you to do it with your prospects, right? Yeah. And then now it's gonna make you like uncomfortable to object on the price at the end. Yeah. In the call. So it's like you're gonna do it with the prospects, find a way in. What type of behaviors connect with the winning identity of someone that's at their weight goals with someone that buys? Which is, for example, like, ultimately you want to be there to, to, you know, to be there for your family. So you ultimately feel like if you can be there for yourself, it makes it easy for you to then serve your family better, right? And now there's like this gravity and weight on them being there for themselves and putting themselves first, which is very much inclusive of— it very much relates to buying it. Like, committing to yourself in coaching means committing to yourself with your weight means committing to your family, and it all just ties in. So finding, finding it where it's, it's organic in the call and making comments about it and getting and asking them and, and getting confirmation really after problem. Okay.

And then would you like bring them back down with con— like, consequencing pretty hard? Like, what happens if you're never able to be this person that you said that you wanted? And then you said—

see, identity, identity with, with, uh, committed coaches, identity consequence is going to be way more than like health. Yeah, I found like the— maybe it's an American thing, just maybe it's just the age demographic, but like they have way more consequence of identity-based COI than they do of like health-based COI. Yeah. And it requires them— it requires them when you go on the weight one and the health one, it requires them to then make another step in their brain of going, if I'm not healthy, I won't spend time with my family. Whereas if you go at like, you being— you just say like, you being in a position health-wise where you just can't spend time with your family, it makes them feel— what do old people not want to be? They don't want to die alone. Yeah. So if you, if you do identity-based COI, which is you won't be the family person, then it's going to help them a lot more see the importance of committing to themselves. Yeah.

And sometimes I've been asking like, you know, let's say you lose the weight, who'd be the first person you'd call? And sometimes they just say like, oh, I wouldn't call anyone, I'm doing this for myself. And then would you— it'd be better to go into like, who would that person look like in the mirror?

Yeah, who would that person be? Like, what— how would you feel about yourself? Yeah, yeah. How would you feel going around? Like, what would you do? I would go to— I would actually start horse riding. I've always wanted a horse ride. Okay, you love horses? Yeah. Oh, what horse would you ride? Yeah, I wanna this horse. Okay, what color is it? Oh, black. Nice. How would it feel like, you know, maybe getting a photo of you, you know, riding? Like, where would you ride it? Oh, in Colorado. Like, imagine that. Like, how would that feel? Dude. Yeah, they don't want to let go of that. Yeah, I don't want to let go of that. Go to consequence. What happens if you don't? They don't let go of that. You need imagery and identity, and then, and then you're, you're going to be gold. You, if you do this 20% better than you're doing now, you're definitely going to make more sales. Yeah, right.

Thank you. Because I feel my biggest thing is like, I get people at the end, but they don't say like, money aside, do you feel like this would do it? And like 50/50 is like, yes, I think this is the other 50 say no. And I think it's because I'm not hard.

Yeah, yeah. A big one is, a big one is just like, you got to make them feel that ultimately if they don't commit to themselves, they're losing what they want. Whereas a lot of the time I hear calls and committed, and it's just like, you're for— it's like they're trying to force them to do the right thing and lose weight. They don't care about that. That you— they need to feel like they're not getting what they want, not they're not doing the right thing. That's the difference. Um, Big David, what's going on? What do you, you got any questions? You got 5 minutes all for you.

I've been trying to join for the last hour, man. Ah, shit. Um, okay. Yeah, um, just to give you some context, I'm currently working on Darcy. I think you know Darcy, his offer with the cybersecurity career change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I'm currently working on that at the moment. I'm setting But I'm slowly transitioning into End to End really soon. Nice. And I've been listening to a lot of the calls, a lot of the calls from some of the closers as well on the offer. And the question I had was, I also watched one of your videos is like probing, like how you probe. And I found like probing really, like I'm good with doing probing, right? But the part I get stuck with is probing and staying on track and being productive in the full account.

Okay. So are you saying like you feel like you get, you get to a point where you can't assess whether it's relevant for you to probe?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, well, that, yeah, that's really just gonna come down to you only probe as a means to achieve the objective of the question, which is, for example, if I say, Um, what are you doing now to, to actually get the skills so that you can get to $50K a month? Did you sell a biz op, or is it— it's, it's cybersecurity. Okay, what are you doing now so that you can ultimately get the skills to, uh, increase your income? And they're like, oh, nothing. Why is that? These reasons. Okay, and I guess like, how long have you been, I guess, not doing anything about that? These reasons. Okay, and what do you feel like it's going to take for you to go from research mode to, I guess, doing mode? This? Yeah. Okay. And what do you feel like you've lost in that time by not ultimately, you know, sort of doing what he needed to do to go from research mode to doing mode? Whatever it is to go from research mode to doing mode is probing and clarifying. You should be going off what they said, not asking new random probes. Right? Okay. You can go as long as it's relevant. If I go, once I get what is it, how long has it been going on, and why is it the case, there's no, there's no new different probing questions to ask. You should just be going into like, okay, once you've got those in problem, what is the problem? How long has it been going on? How's that felt? Why? What's changed? That's pretty much all you need in that phase. But there is, there is situations like in objection finding. Well, you're gonna ask a lot and you're, and you, you're really good. You've got, but your logic for whether or not you've asked too many probing questions is have you achieved the objective of the question, which is to what you need to know the objective. So for example, it's like, uh, in objection finding, it's identifying things that have held them back from committing to solutions like ours in order for me to identify the objections you will have to a solution like ours. So I've gotta work out what has he done in the past? Why hasn't he done something? What aversions does he have to continuing? And for him to essentially overcome those, I need to create some consequence. If you do it my way, at the end of objection finding, what have you lost? What will you lose? And what type of mindset shift do you need to have moving forward? Like you would've heard in that Navid review. So again, it really comes down to where in the call we're talking about. What, what the objective is of the question. And if their answer, like, if once you know the objective of the question, like identify their problem, you know what a good answer sounds like. Is it an in-principle agreement, like an explicit answer, like I have this problem and yes, it's impactfully painful? That's like a perfect answer. Is it a mediocre answer? Because that one doesn't need any probing, by the way. That the media, it's a mediocre answer. Well, you know, I've just been feeling like a little bit stressed. What would you say in that situation? Well, what— there's no perfect answers, many you could ask, but what would you potentially— if I said I'm just feeling a little stressed, what would you say?

So what makes you feel like you're feeling stressed?

Okay, and then I give you, um, oh, um, I can't— I really struggling to pay the bills. Um, yeah, I'm just really struggling to pay the bills. What can you do with that that would probably help a lot on your offer? It's real simple. It's two words.

I got two questions. Yeah, go ahead. I got two words. Okay. Why is that? Why is that?

Yeah. Because my job doesn't pay enough. Okay. How long have you felt that way? Yeah. How long has it been the case? The whole time. Okay, well, what's shifted for you recently that's made you feel like doing something about this? Yeah, yeah, he's cool. It's cooked. He's— the objective of the call is to sell them into a new career path. All I need you to do is admit your job doesn't pay enough, it's painful, and it's important to solve now. What else do I need to get, you know? I don't need to spend so much time like, tell me about your day at the clinical, like, why is it— what else is wrong? It doesn't really matter. Your objective on that, that's like, it creates a tight call. Like all your objective is on the call is to go like, okay, I want to get this guy to commit to a new career path. All I need him to do is to leave his current job behind by admitting that there's a problem. Yeah. Right? Holding him back from getting to his goal. That's all you need. See, because I know the objective of the whole call is to sell them into a new career path. When I'm in problem, it's a bit clearer over how much probing I need to do. You know? And honestly, keeping it light. Yours was good. You made the right decision, right? You made the right decision around what to ask. But I can tell it's normal for like everyone is you're potentially leaning towards your questions being too long. You're doing full sentences. Yeah, that's the other thing. Which is like, when you say this, what do you mean by that? Or when you say stressed, how do you mean? So why? So you don't need to do that. Catch them when they're in the middle of saying it. Yeah, so just like rapid, like, oh, how so? You know what I mean? And what it's going to get them to do is they stay in the state that we're talking, and it stops them talking themselves out of it too. You go, yeah, oh, um, what's your problem right now? I'm feeling stressed. When you say stressed, what do you mean by that? It, it allows too long and he has to process the question. When he says stress, go, oh, why stress? And he goes, well My job doesn't, um, my job doesn't pay enough, uh, because, you know, it's just a low-paying job. And, and really, that's where you should be cutting in, because you could go, and really, but sometimes it's not too bad, and some weeks I get bonuses. You don't want him talking his way out of it. So as soon as you hear enough, because you know the objective of the question, you know what a good answer is, you know what an average answer is, you know what a shit answer is. As soon as you hear enough to achieve the, what you need from that question, Just move on. Oh, okay. How long has that been going on? Move on. You've got enough. Yeah, I mean, so it really all comes down to, to finally answer your question again, where— how do I know I've probed enough? Know what a great answer is to in that call. And the only way you know what a great answer is, if you know what the objective of the question is. What is a great answer for me to get to me to move on? Then I don't need to ask random other questions because I saw some guru doing it on YouTube and I feel like I need to ask that and add that to my script. Most of the time with anything, just like Elon Musk's design principle, the first step in making something more efficient or faster is removing. You don't need to ask as much. You just need to ask more small relevant questions. What is it? How long? How's it feel? Go. Yeah. You know?

Because something I've been doing with my selling calls is like listening back to the calls.

Just wait, Connor. I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I saw your comment. I'll tell you something in a sec.

Go ahead. David? Okay. I was gonna say I've been listening to my calls and listening to my questions and then asking myself, how could I make that question shorter to get what I need with my call reviews?

Yeah. It's oftentimes like it just with the timing of it and it's like, does it listening back and going, did I really get anything new from that? Was that and asking yourself, dude, another thing is when you get it, when you ask a question that's good, say, How is that benefiting this call? How am I gonna use that later? Yeah. As opposed to just play acting sales and going, oh, I know I'm supposed to ask this question cuz Jeremy says it, and then you don't even use it later. It's not even used in consequence. You don't even bring it back up. It's not even used as ammo to ask another question in a custom way. Like going, yeah, well, I know you said this before, and I suppose with that in mind, like you should be leveraging everything you're getting. And if you don't, if you find yourself asking things that just don't have any leverage, Yeah. Like for example, why, why I tell reps, I don't understand, no one's ever been able to give, give me a real good answer. Why you say, what did you think of the VSL? What did you think of the video at the top of the call? Like every rep asks that. Mm-hmm. But like, what if they say, I didn't, I thought it was shit. Okay. What, what are you gonna do? You gonna like not pitch him? Yeah. And argue over it? Yeah. Uh, if they say it's great, okay. Like, well, they have, they have more conviction now that they've said it. Like, like it, it doesn't do anything. You know what I mean? So it's just like, I just go, did you make the time to, did you take, did you actually take the time? Like make the time? Not did you get the time? Did you make the time to go through some of the pre-call stuff? Yeah, I did. Okay, cool. What is it that got your interest and you are hoping to get from this call? Yeah. Like I don't need to ask because either it's not that it's, it's just, it doesn't do any, I'm not doing anything with that. I won't use it later. So I don't ask it because there should be a currency on your questions. You should say less because the more you say, the less valuable it is. So don't ask shit that doesn't benefit. There's a cost to everything you say. So yeah, make sure it has relevance. Otherwise prospects can tell, you know, they can tell when you ask a question and you don't use it next, it doesn't have some kind of logic, then they'll be able to tell it lowers your frame. It doesn't benefit. All right. Yeah. Cool. But I just want to close off with, um, Connor, um, I'll drop my, my WhatsApp number here. You can go if you have any questions, you guys need help, like anything, uh, sales roles. Random questions for voice notes. If you're not a paying client, I might get back to you the end of the week, like just sending you a voice note, but it's better than nothing. Or you'll be on this meeting so you can just get the answer. If you want sales roles, stuff like that, I'm always open to helping people and stuff like that. So I always give people my number.

855-743-131.

It's in there. Appreciate that, man. I sent it to Holden. Let me just send it to everyone. Thanks, man. Yeah, you can just add me on WhatsApp and we'll chat and like whatever. Um, happy to help. Oh, I gotta be straight up with you, bro. Uh, what's his name? David. Is it David? Yeah. Uh, yeah, I saw this. I saw this when I was like 5 minutes ago before you jumped in the meeting. Sent me this. Uh, Connor, sorry, not David. What? And then David. Yeah, you see? Can you see my screen?

I can't see your screen.

No. Uh, can you see it now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How did you get that already, bro? I got eyes everywhere, bro. I got eyes every— I got a client today that, um, said to me, uh, oh dude, uh, this one sales coaching client said to me, he goes, hey, this rep, he's, uh, because he's a, he's a rep for one of my management clients, he's like, this rep, he's He's applying for another job. I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm also, uh, the job he's applying for is one of my clients as well. And he's a client. He's a client. He's a client. He's a client. And then he's, and then I, I told, I said, yeah, I don't care, dude. I know he's going for this other job. I'm literally coaching the managers for that one too. And then later in the day, uh, like an hour later, the, the coaching, the coaching client comes to me. He's like, oh, um, I just, I'm sorry for not telling you. I, I, I, um, I'm actually applying for this other job. I'm like, yeah, I know. And I know you know that I know. No, that's why you're telling me. And he's like, I'm like, just don't worry, bro, it's in Australia. If it's in Australia, there's a chance I, uh, I, I'm, I'm helping them in some way. Yeah, that's, that's exactly—

that's— I'm not going to speak too much, but wait, so how do you know? Wait, yeah, is it— how did you know? I don't know. I think, I think I know how he knows.

Yeah, no, no, I think so too.

Oh, are you in the group voice?

No, no, no, it's a screenshot. Yeah, yeah, it's a screenshot from, from— I mean, you would have seen it on the screenshot, but you didn't look. You didn't look up the top. It's from who sent it.

Oh no, I know.

I think it's all good, guys. You guys are good people. You've got nothing to worry about. Yeah, um, bring people along.

Yeah, man. Well, it's good because David wouldn't have got in here if I didn't post the screenshot.

I was like calling everyone. Awesome, I'll speak to you guys in WhatsApp or next week, whatever. Easy. Cheers.