What It Takes To Be An “Expert”: Two Guys Who Managed to Do It In Separate Industries Discuss

To tell you the truth, we weren't even, like, that good of friends in the army.

No, I hated you.

Yeah, that's fair. Don't think you're the only one, if I'm honest. If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode you listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this?

You.

You listen and review.

Put that coffee down.

Hey, guy.

How's it going?

Pretty good.

Me too.

So this is our first attempt at doing this. Hello, everybody. Yeah, And I guess we should probably start because I think we're planning on putting this on both of our YouTube channels.

Right?

Yeah.

So for you people on your channel who are watching it, my name's Pat Stewart.

Hi.

It's my best mate, Pat.

Yeah.

Thanks, guy.

Yeah. And who are you?

I'm Matt. So me and Pat have been friends for a long time. I do sales. Pat does dog stuff.

Yeah.

And so what we were planning on doing, we. I think you just. You said at some point, for a while, you've been listening to the podcast, you do your own podcast, and we're like, we should do a podcast together. And I was like, that is a lot more. More work than I'm willing to take on at the moment.

Y.

And I'm proud of myself for saying no to something.

Yeah.

Especially with the enormity of our success.

Yeah.

So instead of doing a podcast and being on the hook to do that on the regular, we decided that we're going to just sit down and discuss our lives and where we're at.

Yeah.

Probably every quarter or so, as often as needs be.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it's been cool having you back in Sydney because you left to go to Perth.

I'm talking about that period.

Yeah. How long were you going forward? Over a year, year and a half.

Like 18 months.

Yeah. Yeah.

And. And you're back and searching for a home. Yeah.

That's a whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

We don't need to get into that too much.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I went to Perth. The main reason was because the business was new and it was doing all right, but, like, the Sydney lifestyle was just getting a little bit on top of us, and I was like, I need. I need time to breathe. And obviously, like, when it comes to business, if you want to grow it, you want to reinvest. I didn't have the excess funds to reinvest and live in Sydney. So I was like, well, I can go to Perth. I can buy a giant house for, you know, I just do a song and a dance and then someone will give me a house. And then so I could set up an office at home. And that gave me the ability to be hyper aggressive over that 18 months. And then we literally 35x the business over that 18 months.

Yeah.

That's pretty awesome.

Yeah.

And then I was like, oh, I got money now. Come at Sydney.

Sick of this place.

Yeah.

And you kind of dodge covert altogether.

Right.

Because what Perth have like two cases throughout the whole thing. And that was recently had one.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. The whole time there was like one community transmission the whole way through. So I mean, really, like, if I look back at it in retrospect, it was like the biggest. It was the greatest decision ever.

Yeah.

Because we got a great house. Which you still own or renting out, making money.

Yeah.

And we got to. We like literally had no disruption.

Yeah.

There was a four week period where like the Westfield was closed. Like for those of you in America, the Westfield is like just a shopping mall.

Yeah.

Everything else was open the whole time.

Yeah.

Don't get me wrong, everyone's still panic. Bought toilet paper.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

But you know, you know, whatever.

So taking a step back, we were in the army together. Didn't actually really work together ever in the army.

No. And like we. To tell you the truth, we weren't even like that good of friends in the army.

No.

I hated you.

Yeah.

That's fair. Don't think you're the only one, if I'm honest.

So I remember I was in Afghanistan and I got home and you and Tindall Ryan, who I went to school with, enjoy the army with, had become friends while I was in Afghanistan. Like you got to the unit while I was there and I live with Ryan. And when I got home, you were at my house and I was like, just some guy. I was like, who's this dude? Who's the at my house? This is amazingly good looking dude in my home.

Right.

But then when he left the army, we've been, you know, in touch and been good friends since. And recently we've both sort of started doing something silly. We're in completely different industries. Stayed pretty like tied in together. I mean, you were my PT for a while while I was still in the army.

I can't take blame for that though.

We both have similarly ruined bodies in many ways.

Yep.

From being in the Army. Thanks, Army. But also a lot of cool stories. So you get that with the ruined body.

You do. And sometimes they even tell yours.

Yeah, exactly.

The great thing about the army.

Yeah.

Other people tell your stories exactly. Especially when you're in the room with them and you look at them with that, like, are you gonna do this? Is this gonna happen, man?

Stealing chickens in North Korea.

Exactly. So. But recently, I think that the thing that we should talk about today so that people can actually watch is instead of it just being us talking shit with each other, is recently, in spite of us being in completely separate industries, I train dogs and people, and you do sales. And train people to do sales. We've both decided to push into YouTube and try. And for me, it's not really about. I do have a goal of monetizing YouTube. I want to get money from it, but it's not like I expect it to be a revenue stream.

Right.

Like, it's not going to do anything other than buy something. A microphone or something like that.

Right.

It's not. It's not like I'm expecting to buy a house or get rich from it. Why have. And considering you're now super rich, why have you decided to try and do YouTube?

Well, it goes back, right? Because it's. It's the same reason why I did the podcast. Just because I idolize you, Pat. I just kind of want to be, you know, at least a. At least a month behind you at all times. But no, so it's a very similar reason. So, like, I think what me and you have managed to do in our industries independently, which is why we've been able to, I guess, connect on this stuff so well. One, we both love gear. This is a gear heavy enterprise.

Yes.

Which is fantastic.

Yeah.

And secondly, like, you know, this is.

Probably a $10,000 interview.

Yeah.

I said I wouldn't come on this.

Just in equipment to do this.

Yeah.

And.

And, yeah.

So, like. But we've managed to grab authority in the space relatively quickly. I think there's a couple reasons for that. One, I think, on camera, natural kind of charisma, I think, is one thing. Natural storytelling ability, which is. Which is a good one. Which translates well to seminars like you were doing and sort of some of the online stuff that I was doing. And so podcasting really lent itself to that. And both of our podcasts have done well. Yours does extremely well. Mine's younger. Mine does well for how long it's been going on. And then from there, I do video podcasts as well. And Then I started doing a lot of educational content on Facebook and then putting that onto, like, all the different social platforms, which was the play that I did that nobody else was doing and nobody else was willing to do. And that got me, like, the market share that I have today, which is pretty significant considering how long I've been in the space. And then for me, like, YouTube was the next step for that. And the main reason I'm doing YouTube is one, because I like the creative endeavor, and I think it's interesting, and it gives me, like, an outlet to be able to kind of be a little bit more me, you know?

Yep.

The second is that I can, like, liquidate my content so I can use the content that I put out there, which in turn makes me money in all the other programs. But instead of, like, I can make money from the advertising because, like, you know, people say, like, the lot. You can talk long enough to where everybody knows you're a fuckwit.

Yeah.

Or you can talk long enough to where everyone goes, oh, this dude knows what he's talking about.

Yeah.

I've spoken so much over the last year that people have made their mind up, and hopefully it's the latter. And so, like, the more that I do that, the more brand equity I get. And then by be able to monetize that content, I'm essentially getting paid to put people into my funnels.

Makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that was the main driver behind it. And I think, like, to be honest, it's funny, like, I don't make any money off YouTube. I'm sure I do through coaching and people kind of coming through the funnels and stuff like that, but it's hard to track that. But it's like, the most important thing to me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, constantly checking the analytics and almost. It's almost like that dopamine hit it is big time.

Yeah.

And I think you and I both. It's a challenge. Like, it's a new thing you have to learn. Right. Like, it's. Because it's very different as a social media platform to anything else. It performs really differently. People interact with it differently. You know, when. No matter how long we speak for now, this is probably already going to be the longest video that I have publicly available on YouTube because people's attention spans are short. And when we watch this, we'll see that after 30 seconds in, you get, like, a 70% drop. But it's cool that you get that analytics.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it's a different beast. And it's. It. I'm having a fun time learning it.

Yeah, I suppose. Like, I, I have a different, like, I have a big team. Like, I mean my, my marketing team is, is large. Like. Yeah, you know, we have a marketing team today and I've got like a chick who does clubhouse and Instagram. I've got a guy who handles YouTube and Facebook.

So. And then let's just reset the stage a little bit because since we're talking clubhouse at the room I. We're in the roof of my house, my business is me. I have two kennels outside, but I have two dogs, so I can only have another two in. I'm as small a small business as can be. I employ nobody. It's just me.

Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about the.

I've got 32 stuff, right?

Yeah.

So not everyone's full time and that includes, you know, some bas and stuff like that. But I would say like core, like full time, highly paid, like staff. There's like 12. And then we've got like, you know, another like, you know, 15 contractors that are full time contractors. And then we have like virtual assistant stuff and stuff like that. So it's a, it's a big organization. It grows relatively quickly because, like, I just keep throwing people at things to, to make life easier. And so like, you know, my, my, like, I have a, we have a branding strategist and all that kind of stuff that we, that we employ. I actually like, required so much from my marketing company, they had to start a new division to make three hires.

Wow. Yeah.

Okay, so.

So they love you as a client.

Yeah, they love me. I made my own package. He was like, I was like, I started off at like two grand a month and it was like the basics. And then I was like, hey, you're doing a good job. He's like, yes, sweet. I was like, so I'm going to pay you 10 and this is what you're going to do? And he was like, okay, I need a month to sort that out. I was like, all right, cool. Set the bill up and we'll go. Sweet. So, but like, that's like, for me, that's like, I have to do that because that's what gets me to the front the fastest.

Right?

You know, and like, I'm, I'm in a, it's a cool position to be in because like, the more I do that stuff, like, I can say that publicly and I can go out and buy a Lamborghini. I mean, I, I can't, but I, if I could, I'd Go out and buy a Lamborghini tomorrow. I could put a little over YouTube and makes me more money.

Yeah.

You know, so it's an interesting, like, arena. Not that I do, like, the life coaching or any of that stuff, but, like, because being good at sales, like, what is the only outcome of being good at sales?

Yeah.

Making more money.

Yeah.

And so you. It's important to show lifestyle stuff.

Yeah.

Like, you need to be showing that spending money. Look how much money I have because of what I do makes that money.

Yeah.

And I try and do it in the least douchebaggy way possible.

Yeah, of course.

Like, I'm. I'm like, you know, like 60, full douche. And I try and stick within that.

Don't make jokes while I'm sipping my tea.

You know, I can't control this humor. One of the things that I try and do, and I'm sure, like, I've known you for a long time and, like, there's no difference between on camera pat and off camera pat.

Yeah.

And I think I'm the same. And it's just like, that is one of the reasons, I think, why we've been able to be, you know, I think, like, it's moderate success for both of us.

Yeah.

I mean, but like, you know, it's still early days. Really.

Yeah.

Because we're, you know, say, less than sort of five years seriously into these careers, you know, And I think, you know, YouTube is a way that we can future proof or at least a video medium. I don't know, like, in five years might be going, remember YouTube? But, like, we can transition. You can move through those different platforms.

Yeah.

For me, it was just at the end of last year, I was talking to a guy, it was my mechanic, and Remy was with me, and Remy's my dog. And we're talking about how we're making jokes. Even though Remy's super social and whatever, this guy was kind of scared of him. And we're making jokes about how he could bite him. And then he. He saw, like, it was with my new car and he saw the ball there. He goes, oh, I just grabbed that ball and throw it. And he won't bite me. And I was like, oh, that's not how it works. It's like when he's been told to bite someone, he's biting them no matter what. And he goes, what? Like, even if I block him or whatever. So, yeah, that's part of the things I'm training for. And I wanted to show him this video that I have of you know, in, like, dog bite work, there's the big sleeve, right? Like what we call a barrel sleeve. The real obvious, like, this is the thing. And people have it in their mind that that's what they're going to do with the dog that's going to bite. Like, I'll present something and the dog will bite that, right? Especially if people have seen that, they're like, that's what. And with a lot of dogs, that will happen, right? Like, with the overwhelming majority of dogs that are trying to bite, that's what will happen. But I was like, that's not. This is not gonna happen. He'll go under that. If he. If you offer him something like that, he's been trained to go under it because he knows that's a trap, right? And he's like, what do you mean? And so I was like, oh, I've got a video of it. And I had a video on his Instagram. So my dog has an Instagram. You remcode the dog on Instagram? And my Instagram's operant canine, right? And I knew it was on one of them. Couldn't remember exactly where I'd posted. I had a feeling it was on both.

Yeah.

And so I was, like, scrolling and like, 10 minutes later with this guy over my shoulder, like, waiting to see it. I was like, oh, well, you just have to take my word for it. I just couldn't find it. And then so it got me thinking. I was like, man, I can't even find my own content. Like, the stuff that I have here within Instagram and Facebook, like, and I don't. I'm not a big user of those things. I'm not big on branding, marketing and stuff. And as you say, like, that's a big part of business, and it's a part that I'm pretty bad at. And I don't like to present myself as anything other than I am.

Right.

So I've never put a lot of work into it. So anyway, what I realized is it's totally unsearchable, and all my content was invisible to people, right? And so I was like, no, I need a better search mechanism for this. And so YouTube was the answer. And so it was that, like, I. I could name that video and I could then find it. And I just. It just occurred to me that if. If my. If I can't find my own content within the platform where I know where I put it, the chances of somebody else finding it are zero. And. And I feel like everything that I put out in the dog training space is probably what in, you know, in content terms people call like, evergreen content. It's as relevant yesterday as it will be tomorrow. There's no huge advances in dog training happening, right?

Well, it's the same as what I do because it's just human behavior. Yours is dog behavior.

Yeah.

Yours is manipulating dog behavior to get an outcome. Mine's manipulating human behavior to get an outcome.

Exactly. And so I don't do current events. So, you know, I want my stuff to be searchable and find it out. And so YouTube was the answer to that. And then the more I looked into it, I just started thinking like, you know, Facebook. I did a sale on my online course. And even doing that online course was a big challenge for me, like, even just deciding to do it right. And I'd put all this content into Facebook and, you know, pretty good content. Because what I do is when I do Skype sessions with people or zoom sessions, I. I record them and I just record my end so I'm not recording the other person. There's no, like, issues there about how I can use that content. I'm only recording myself the. From the webcam initially. But if I say anything cool or relevant I thought would be good, I'd put it into social media. So it's like, hey, here's like, here's a taste of the type of lessons you can get, right?

Yeah.

So there's heaps of pretty good, like, high quality content that Facebook.

Yeah.

And Facebook was showing it to people. It was all going well and I'd get really good engagement. And then the second I was like, hey, guys, I've got an online course, they're like, no one has shown that to anyone. Like, and that. And a friend of mine, John, in the States, he, you know, he's a, he's done a couple of lessons. Really nice guy, a good, like, supporter of what I do, wants to see me do well. He shares it for me, right? And then he contacts me a couple days later. He goes, dude, something's going on. I was like, what do you mean? He goes, like, my mom only has three friends on Facebook. It's like humans. His sister and, and she hasn't liked my post and she likes all my posts. Right. So he checked from her account and his post wasn't there of sharing my stuff. So I was like, you Facebook, like you, I provided a lot of value to your platform and a lot of like, I kept people on your platform. And we both got a good win out of that. They saw that I know what I'm talking about. And maybe book sessions from me or went to seminars or stuff like that. But then the second I was like, link in it, I. Yeah, of course I did.

Yeah.

You can't have a link.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was. I just got. I just got angry with it, and I was like, you know, you guys are all, take very little give. And then when I looked into YouTube and it's like, you get. You get a cut of the ads. I was like, oh, my God, this is like, why am I doing this?

Everybody know about this.

Yeah, that's what it was for me. So then I get onto YouTube, and what had been happening was my YouTube, like, profile is probably nine years old, because I think I made an account to watch a video that was, you know, an 18, like someone's restricted video or something.

Right.

So I was like, okay. So what I had been doing was a lot of my online courses, just private links from YouTube and a lot of, like, training videos that I would send to people. I would just film it and it'd be too long to text. I just put in YouTube as a. As a private link. So there were. I had quite a lot of videos that were not publicly available.

Yeah.

And a few little ones that I just put in there, and I'd never gone back to check on those. Like, it was irrelevant to me how many views they got. Like, I just, you know, and I would get notifications that people had commented on it, and I was like, good for you. Like, that's like, whatever.

Congratulations.

Yeah, congratulations. Thanks for commenting. So it turns out I had over a thousand subscribers without ever really putting any work into it, because people have been there.

Right.

But it's like, you know, over a long time.

Yeah. Yeah.

But then I think, see, like. And YouTube's interesting as well, because it. It's the same as when you look at someone else's Instagram or someone else's Netflix.

Right.

Like, whatever. It's a really different experience because it's showing.

Right. Yeah.

So my YouTube currently is just YouTube studio setups. That's all it is.

It's just RGB lighting.

Yeah.

But prior to that, like, a few, you know, prior to start of last year, it was tech reviews, you know, like, it was just stuff that I would want to know. And, you know, like, my garage door broke recently, and so I just googled the model number, and there's the video on how to fix it. Right. So that's the kind of stuff that's all that my YouTube was. Right. So I decide I'm going to look up some dog training things because I know dog training stuff comes up in my YouTube. None. Because I don't watch dog training content, Right. Like, I make it. I don't really watch it. And the stuff that I watch is not on YouTube. It's like, you know, I'm buying it from the very top end people. So I go looking, thinking that my video, that's this really technical explanation of how to teach a very technical thing. And, and, and with a lot of precision and with a lot of thought and a lot of understanding and a lot of new once.

Oh, Pat.

It's got like 500 views, right? And it's got this stupid title that literally was probably just the, like, the file name that I called it, right? Like, no work, no description, nothing. And it's got like 500 views. So I'm like, okay, there's 500 people that are interested in that. But then I look up other how.

To tickle your puppy.

Yeah, like, no, not even that, but like, other dog training advice things. And there's like 5.4 million views. And I'm like, oh, no, there's not 500 people that are interested in this. There's 5.4 million people that are interested in this. So watch the video. And I was like, oh, no, that's bad advice. Like, I was. I was thinking, that's not. That's not how you should do that. And there's a lot of. It's highly stylized and it's. It's not. A lot of it's not true. And one of the things that really pisses me off in the dog space is like, I can read a dog, right? Like, I know what's going on. And a lot of the times when you see people like, watch me train this dog how to do this, I can read that the dog is confused by the progressions in the behavior. So you can see, like, that dog knows that, and he's confused by the fact that you're trying to reteach it.

To him right now.

There's not that many people that can see that, but I can see that. And I was like, this is fake. This is you leading people down the garden path here. So not only is this, like, not very well presented factually, you're not. You're giving people false expectations about what.

Would actually be done.

Yeah.

And then just one of the interesting.

Things about your original course that you did with Val.

Yeah.

So Val's. It was like, to be honest, it's probably the most Comprehensive. I've done it. It's comprehensive and best. How to train a puppy tutorial. And it was like the greatest thing ever. And it just, like, it just didn't hit the market.

Not. No one wanted it.

I remember. Were you talking about. I was like, dude, it's fucking genius.

Yeah.

So, I mean, like, I shouldn't say no one wanted. We said sold. You know, a couple thousand of them.

Right.

But in the, in the reality of the market, no one wanted. I made it free just recently because. But that's the thing. It's about that perception of value. Like people.

You.

I couldn't convey to people how good this is. And to the average dog person, they. For the average pet owner, they can't tell the difference. And then what was annoying me, one of the reasons I made it free was that when I looked at the analytics of who was buying it, all the email addresses have, like, atdog training business.com. and I was like, it's not for you.

It.

You're interested in that because you're interested in me as a trainer. Mostly what I do now is train other dog trainers.

Yeah. They're almost doing it as like a thank you.

Yeah, yeah. And. And, And I was like, no, it's not for you. It's for your clients. Like, and, and so. But it was filmed over 12 months. Like, it's really how to train a dog. And if there's no. Suddenly the dog's a year old, it's. You watch her grow up. And at this age, this is what you should be teaching. And at this age, this is what you should be teaching.

Yeah.

So we just made it through, put it on YouTube, and we're like, yeah, you have it. But. So that was the key catalyst for me was that I just wanted somewhere where my content could be actually found and used. And then when I looked into it, I was. I've always had it in my head that because of the podcast as well, is that people are probably digesting my stuff in their car. Like, I was like, you don't need to see it. I'm explaining it to you. Like, if it's just me standing in front of a shitty whiteboard and the sound is, okay, like, that's good enough, but. But it's not. It's not good enough.

Right.

And so I've learned that now.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, okay, I have high quality knowledge that I want to pass on. I have to develop the skill of creating high quality content so that people can look at it and go, yeah, that's worth digesting.

Yeah, well, it's funny on the perception because like my editing is on my videos is quite good now. I don't do it like I have a guy that does that. I have a full time video editor who works. I run two companies. I run seventh Level, which is in the States, which is a, like a B2B. Sales training.

I'm guessing that's business to business.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I hear that on your podcast.

Yeah. From the bum training. It's very niche.

Yeah.

So we do more like, like I've got a meeting tomorrow with like a big agency in the States and I've got a meeting with Brad Lee tomorrow who runs a program called Lightspeed VT which runs like all the websites for like Tony Robbins and Grant Cardone, all those guys to take over their sales and then provide training for a lot of their affiliates. So like do all that kind of stuff through 7th Level, which is a US based company, which makes it much easier. And then all the Australian stuff is run through Sales Sniper. Well, still US stuff anyway, it's just different. So yeah, I lost myself my own narrative there. But yeah, it was, I'm sure it was very informative.

But you're going somewhere.

Yeah, yeah.

Business to business.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know, whatever. I'm tired. I've had a long day.

It has been a long day.

I got to get up at 5, I got to go to 4:30 tomorrow. I have a 5am meeting. Yeah, that's one of the hard things about working with people in the States.

Yeah.

You know, it's just like Tomorrow I've got 14 meetings.

Yeah.

Every meeting is an hour.

Yeah, it's a big day.

Yeah.

So it's a big day. Actually my operations manager called me today and he was like, we need to talk about your diary. Just like you're gonna kill yourself. I was like, nah bro, I'm a killer. Don't worry about it.

Never stop.

Never stop. And you can stop when you're dead.

No retreat, no surrender.

Exactly. Burn the boats. Yeah, yeah. But you know, YouTube is a fascinating medium and I think like the perception. That's right. My, my video editor is really good and I was really, really like stoked when I got him. I was like, okay, now we can, now we can take it to the next level because now I can start doing things like again because I know those first 10 seconds are so important. So I start doing like Will Edward sequences, which is all the quick cut sequences. So now at the beginning of Every video that I do, I film a quick cut and then that guy puts it in there. And it's all designed just to get people to be like, oh, what's this? This is different. Because anyone else you go to in my space, it's just a. It's a talking head video.

Yep.

And that's it. And so I got videographers in to do walk and talks. Like, you know, like when you did like that stuff. So stuff that might. So me and, me and Pat went out and I was like, hey, can you be my videographer for the day? And I was shooting these sort of advertisements for the seventh level business and the marketing company had split, tested against the actual founder of the company. And they did a talking head. And I was like, I don't, I don't like this. I'm gonna do it my way. Did the walk and talk and the ads like 10, 10x performance.

Yeah.

And just because of an interesting visual background and people just don't realize, like, it's the, the visual interest is so important in keeping engagement.

Yeah.

And so like little cuts in and out.

Yeah.

Going to black and white every now and then, going to color. Like all they do is just go, oh. And they stop people from being bored. Even if the content's good and if the audio quality is crap, they just will not watch.

Yeah.

You can have like, you can upload in 480p and people will watch it. They won't be super impressed. But if you upload in shitty audio, so man, they're. They're gone.

Yeah.

You know, I think the, A big part of the success of the podcast I do is the work that Glenn puts into the audio. And when we started it, I was like, ah, good enough, mate. Like, this is fine. We'll just record it on our phones if, like, if you want to do Pocket, like, that's fine. And he was like, no, no, no, no. And he put so much work into it and it is like pristine.

Yeah.

Like, when I came and did your podcasts, it was one of the first in person podcasts I'd ever done because our podcast is always done over Z. I've been in Perth now. We just got the office fit out and I just had the podcast room sound treated nice. And it's. You have to come in there. It's dead.

Yeah.

Like, there's no echo, which is great. And so then we'll have an in person podcast, I think makes a huge difference. I think Joe Rogan described it as like, when you do a podcast on Zoom. It's like biting into a, like a chocolate egg that's hollow.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, there's just something missing to it, which I can see having done one of these kind of things now. But when I came into your studio, I was like, oh, this is. I gotta like. Because we had like hundred dollar mics from Amazon, USB mics. And I was like, all right. And I think like, literally the next day I went out and bought a Rodecaster. Yeah, I went out and bought a better camera. I went out and bought like, not these ones, not these ones, but like the, the bigger versions.

Yeah, the ones we have at this.

Yeah, the ones you have at the studio bought the exact same. And I was like, yep, let's go.

You know, and we've been blessed that we, we did spend quite a lot of money to get started. But our Patreon, we, we. We've never taken a cent out of that other than bought equipment for it. Like, everything is just. We put it straight back in. And we're very lucky that so many people contribute to that Patreon. There's a lot of money that comes in through it, but it all just goes back into it. And we tell everyone, we're like, we, we show them like, hey, we bought this. And, and like, you know, I bought. I've got a Canon R5 with a, you know, three and a half thousand dollars lens on it. We showed everyone like, hey, this is what we got. And it's to make content for you.

Right.

Like, those guys, they pay for this.

Camera that's filming the same reason I bought the Mercedes. I was like, thanks, guys. Two hundred thousand dollar car. I was like, you guys did that? Well done.

Yeah, your guys, not my guys. Well done. Let's get me a Lambo.

You guys can do it.

I've asked for a Lambo, the Patreon, a few times.

You know, it's funny on my YouTube video the other day, because it was the vlog, which we can talk about vlogs because they're a whole separate beast.

Yeah.

But I did your studio tour and how jealous I was. And someone commented, oh, yeah, well, I bought that because I'm in Pat's Patreon.

Perfect. Yeah.

I was like, yeah, well played, well played.

My brother's in the cars. He's got like three Lamborghinis. And after I made all these jokes about you could buy me a Lamborghini, I was so tempted to get like a video film of me turning up, like, to that anonymous Patreon supporter, you're the best. I love you so much.

When you set up your only fans, you'll get one. You know, I've been approached to. I, I honestly, like, I had a guy, he was like, hey, you should do only fans. But like, you know, just do it for sales.

Yeah.

And I was like, it's the same as Patreon. It's just a platform.

Right.

Because you can.

Yeah.

It's just a way for people.

It's got a stigma.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

This is a great. Only fans.

Yeah.

The casting couch and a half, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Or the lighting.

Yeah.

We can change these colors. We can get to any. She doesn't work up here.

Oh. Yeah.

But, yeah, I think, you know, sort of back to the content. Something that's been really interesting to me is having to learn all of that. Like, it's. I've enjoyed learning it and I'm sort of. I've got a long way to go and I can't afford to employ an editor, nor do I want to. I'm enjoying sort of putting it together even though it costs me a big chunk of the time that I kind of don't have. I'm up here. I'm up here till midnight, clicking away and then I'm up at 5 o'.

Clock.

But I think that there's this space for nuance within. I think both of us hit that within our industry in that there's a. I think there's a real stigma and it's not unfounded amongst ex Special Forces dudes that they don't leave a lot of place for nuance in a lot of their life.

Right.

And there's a lot of.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

There's a lot of my way or the highway and a lot of confrontation where it doesn't need to be. And I think one of the reasons we get along so well and why our content, though it's on completely separate things, is along, like the topics is completely different, but the way that we present it is along similar lines. Like, I watched your video today on the review of the Thousand Dollar Book.

Right.

And I was ex. Like, I had it in my mind that it was just going to be you ship mouthing this book and making a joke about how terrible it is for a thousand bucks. But then it was like, oh, there's actually some okay content in here.

Yeah.

Like it.

You.

There's room for nuance. And that's one of the big things I have missed about not being able to teach Live over the last 12 months is like the storytelling aspect and also sort of shocking people when you say like, this is how I do it. And then when someone asks a question like, why don't you do it this way? When you go, well, here's the 15 reasons why. The way I, the reason I do it this way is not arbitrary, right? Like, this is not just because that's the way some guy taught me and now I pass it on, right? I'm not a six week expert, you know, like, that's the classic army. Like you, you did a six week course and the guy who instructed you on that course was a, he did a six week course and that guy did a six week course. Like, there's no, the depth of what you know is not there. It's good enough. And that's very typical of army. Like, it's still very good. I'm not shit mouthing army stuff, but.

Yeah, I mean, you can ship mouth armies if all you want. Um, we've been out for long enough. But I think like, I think it's a symptom of like, there's a lot of money in teaching people how to do things. And so like, I know sales guys who have done sales coaching with me and were terrible and are now sales coaches. And so it's like, okay, like you, you shouldn't be that because you never actually were successful doing what you're supposed to be teaching. And so like, for me, like, I, like, I don't consider myself a sales coach, but almost all I do is coaching. But I predominantly coach my internal team to replicate what I was able to do. And I was able to earn like, you know, around $100,000 a month of personal income just selling. And that wasn't selling my stuff, that was selling other people's stuff. And so I was like, okay, well if I can do that, and I figured that out relatively quickly, then I can just teach people how to do it and then I don't have to do it because it's, it's a lot of work and it's very demanding. But if those guys don't need to make that much, if they can make 30 grand a month, you know what I mean? But they're actually producing 60. I make 30, they make 30, everyone's happy, you know. And so that's sort of the business model that I went for. And it's only until I was still earning 80, I was still making 60% of the revenue for the company until December when I pulled out of selling. And now I only sell our stuff.

Yeah, Right.

But I just spent a year training people and, like, putting all the time into them. Time into them. And then reviewing my calls, reviewing my stuff and explaining. And through the explanation is where I sort of was like, oh, okay, I know exactly what I'm doing and why, because I had to do so much coaching to get the guys up to scratch. And I think it's probably in a similar way to what you're just saying. Like, I can articulate why I said something in a particular way. It's like I said this. If I want to say a sentence like, why is that important to you now, though? I can say it neutrally. Or I can go, why is that important to you now, though? Or I can go, why is that important to you now, though? And so the subtle nuance would dictate how you answer the question because of a social cue, whether the pause before or after. And so I can dictate how you answer by how I ask. And then I can bring you down a pathway much easier and quicker. And I can do that with every single question that I want to ask. And I can do a sale for 50 grand in 35 minutes.

Yeah.

And so, like, teaching people how to do that is a very lucrative thing. But there's a lot of people who are out there who are actually quite terrible at it.

Yeah.

But it's easy to bullshit people who don't understand. But I can listen to someone and go, oh, that's not going to work.

Yeah.

And I know the exact reaction that person's going to give you, and I know where they're going to try and go. And you're stuck.

Yeah.

You know, in the same way that you can do it with the dog.

Yeah, that's exactly it, mate. And so that's. That's what I'm kind of obsessed with in my life at the moment, is that nuance, the NFL. I feel really drawn to it, and I feel really compelled to make public my feelings on that and teach what I can in it, because I feel like it's. It's drastically missing in a lot of the world at the moment is people just like, no, this is how it is. And you go, yeah, in that framework. That's how it is. But if we just change one thing within that framework now, it's a different thing. And so it's really important to understand how we got to this point. And. And in dog training, that's what I like. It's one thing I really enjoy doing. It's one of the things coaching's funny because I had never considered myself as being a coach and, and I've always kind of said, you know, those who can't do, teach.

Yeah.

And well, that's what's happening here. Like I coach people who are much better than me, but they might just have like a, a little problem and they can't, you know, they're caught up in it and they can't see why is the dog doing this. And, and maybe it's just a external set of eyes. I don't know the dog. So I'm not making excuses for how he acts. You know, I don't, I'm not picking up the template of past behaviors and applying it to this behavior. I can take it for what it really is in this moment, that kind of stuff. But I really enjoy it. Like I really, really enjoy it and I try to apply it to so many things and in personal relationships, in dog training and all that kind of stuff is really understanding. How do you get to here?

Right.

Like, I think it's a powerful position to be in because like, like teachers and sales all the time. Like I gave up about a year ago that I could convince anyone to do anything. But like, because I can't make you do anything, I can't put a gun to your head and say like, give me money. I mean I can do that but like it's not going to work and I don't have a gun here, you know, but so all I can do is present a series of things that get you to convince yourself there's all Dale Carnegie line. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. And when it comes to money, like they can just charge back.

Right.

That's why everybody. Credit card pay on credit card guys. It's pretty safe. You can just call your bank, get the money back, right?

Yeah.

There's a seven day built in cooling off period with everything you buy, even if they don't say there is. And so like you have to keep that person in there. And so I was like, well if I just realize that I can't convince them, then I don't really need to do anything. I just need to stay calm and realize that. Yeah, cool. If what I sell is good, then I just got to keep talking to the person until they figure out it's in their best interest.

Yeah.

You know, so how do I keep talking and not sound like an idiot? And I was like. So I created all these things like loops and frames and things that you say at the beginning it's kind of like playing chess, really. And so my goal is to have the person not realize we're playing chess until I've pretty much already won.

Yeah.

So a lot of people look at it as a chess match. I look at it as the opposite. I'm like, how long can I hold this person off?

Yeah.

Thinking we're playing checkers.

Yeah.

But we're playing chess.

Yeah.

At that I get to the end and it's like, I've put you kind of in a box.

Yeah.

Where you're like, this is the only option.

Yeah. Yeah.

But it's like it.

They put themselves in a box.

They put themselves in a box and every single door is open.

Yeah.

But there's only one they're gonna walk through.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's how, like, I have like a 90 close rate. Like, my close rate is extraordinarily high. And it's because, like, I've just put together enough puzzles now.

Yep.

To where I can go, like, you can probably fix nearly every dog, you know, like.

But yeah.

Yeah. Within reason. Just like I can make nearly every sale within reason. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

If there's a dog that's like, totally. Or if someone who, like, I'm not Tony Robbins and I'm like, I can't intervene with someone's life and fix some sort of deep seated issue within them in an hour, it's not going to happen. Nor do I want to.

Yeah.

Like, that's not really my place. But it's funny, like, when you go into the nuance, because I remember when I was a personal trainer, like, I don't know if the, if the lack of nuance is a symptom of, like, it's lazy and easy to be controversial. So nuance is boring. Or if people just don't react well to nuance. Because I remember, like when I was a pt, the guy named Charles Pollock, when he died a few years ago, he's a phenomenal coach, but he used to talk in hyperbole because the people he were talking to were fucking idiots.

Yeah.

Right. Like this, like, you know, PT, I was a PT. Shout out to all the PTs out there. You're great. But 90% of PTs are just people who couldn't be bothered going to university.

Okay.

They want to make a hundred grand a year at the beach. That's the goal. Right. So, like, you're dealing with people who aren't particularly interested in a lot of things, but the ones who, like, they know they can make money and they need to learn things, right? And so, like, he used to say, yeah, don't eat carbs. Like, just flat out, you can't eat carbs.

Yeah.

Now what he meant is, like, minimize the amount of bad carbohydrate that you have. But then you'd get these mindless monkeys that just, like, literally destroyed themselves because they took it literally, you know, so he's spoken hyperbole to get the point across because, like, 90% of people would then assimilate that as, oh, cool, I'll reduce to, like, a moderate amount. And there's all these morons who would just kind of take it literally. So, yeah, like, whenever I heard that, like, I was like, oh, that's a bad teaching, but he's a great coach. And I was like, it took me years to put together. And I was like, oh, he's like, he's doing that on purpose. Like, and it's. It's to get a point across because he knows, like, it's hard to sink in. So if he says something outrageous enough times, then people follow it to a degree in which is reasonable, you know.

So, like, we fight it. Every example that you've given is. Is 100 applicable to my industry as well.

Yeah.

You see people just like, no, this is how you do it. Because the big boss man says so. And. And you can put in. You can put into, you know, the big boss man. You can. In every sort of space in dog training, there's. There's a. A head guy, right? Like, yeah. And. Or girl. And people take what they saw them do as, like, that's the gospel. Because that's what they did. And they go, yeah, but there's. There's a lot of factors that led to that, and that's what they did in that moment with the sun coming from that angle, you know, like, and all these little nuanced things. And then they just. You see people wrecking themselves by not eating any carbs and crushing dogs by doing the wrong thing or letting dogs go completely wild by not. Not implosing any discipline. Like, you know, I put a video up recently that was in our Patreon of. And I showed I wanted to build power in my dogs. I let him steal stuff from me. So, like, I was. I was doing something on a tree, and I had the Frisbee in my, like, hanging out the back of my pants, and he ran over and grabbed the Frisbee and stole it, right? And it's like, that's not by accident. Like, he didn't. He didn't steal that Frisbee. I set up Frisbee to be in a place where he could see it and steal it to empower him because I wanted him to feel strong in that session. That's the. The emotional state I wanted him to be in. Now, if you saw that and then you hear, okay, Pat lets the dog steal the Frisbee in order to make the dog feel a certain way. And then just before you go onto the trial field, do you let the dog do that to make him feel a certain way? Do you go, well, no. Like, that's the. Now he. He's not going to do anything you say on the trial field, like, because you just. That's the wrong mindset. I want a total mindset of compliance when we're in the trial field, but when we're learning a new skill, I want him to feel free and powerful.

Right.

So, like, it's nuance. There's a right and a wrong way. And I think as coaches, it's our job to explain that to people rather than just saying, do it like this, because it's too hard for me to explain it. And I don't believe you have the capacity to understand it. There's enough people doing that. There's enough of those people.

There are for sure.

For me, it's like, no, I'm the guy that's going to break it down to you to the most difficult, boring.

Degree and relatively for free. Like, I remember when my marketing guy came on, I told him two things, and I was like, if you know who I am, you have to be able to get better at sales for free. I was like, that's the goal. I was like, I have a free Facebook group. We live stream in there six days a week for an hour with roleplays. The people on the role play pay to be there. A very small amount, 50 bucks a week, which for sales training is. What's that called?

What's that called?

Closing code. You guys can sign up.

Will there be a link in the description?

You laugh, but I set up 60 people a month. There's a link in the description. Yeah, so we do that, but you can just watch it for free. So you can just be a part watching coaching sessions for free.

Yeah.

And then, like, we do a lot of stuff. And then I have the YouTube channel. I have the podcast. The podcast is not pitch fest. Like, we don't really do any pitching. It's called invisible selling.

Right.

Which, like, which is. It is. I do it on purpose. You probably do it by accident. You Know what I mean? It's more like I give away so much that it's like the law of reciprocity. It has to come back. But I was like, we have to do things that are good. Like, I don't want to do teasers. It's like I want to explain something, explain it in depth, give it to people and they can utilize it. And then if they want, like way more than that, then they can pay. You know, we have different levels of paying, but it's a difficult space to be in because like, there's that dichotomy of like, there has to be an element of like clickbait.

Yeah.

And then you've got to give detail and it's like, how do you. Which is why the podcast is the perfect bridge. Because it's like people can come in from YouTube or, you know, you. So you can be a bit More theatrical on YouTube, give the content, make it sort of infotainment and then from there, like take the concepts that you break down on YouTube and potentially go into far more exhausting detail in the podcast. So if you're in the ecosystem, like, you'll get all the information that you were require y for free. And like, that's one thing that's great about YouTube as well is eventually you can monetize that.

Yeah.

You know, which is not easy.

Yeah.

Like, it's a, you know, we're going back and forth sharing screenshots, like, yeah, 4000 hours. It's a shame that you can't do the privately viewed hours. It's all publicly viewed hours.

Yeah.

Oh, if I had my privately viewed hours because I have so many online courses and like, you know, just yesterday I put a 45 minute video into our patreon. Like, I'd be over it in an instant. Yeah, yeah, that's life. That's life. But yeah, it's, it's fun to learn the new system and, and like relating to what you're saying then especially on our podcast, one of the things that I have never once, and I'm proud of having never done this, I've never once stopped myself and thought, no, I'm not giving that away. There's not a single thing that I've, I've did. Like, you know, I've got an online course, 500 bucks. It's a pretty fun seminar. Oh, you can find on my website, operantcanine.com hit the online courses tab. There'll probably be a link in the.

Description, affiliate link, but.

So I've got that. But that'll happen. Everything that's on there, there's nothing new.

Right.

Like, if you go, if you listen to all 180 episodes of the podcast, you'll hear it all.

You'd piece it together.

But.

Yeah, but what is. What it isn't is curated. Like, it's not step by step, do this, then this, then this, which is on the course.

Right.

But I've never once been explaining something and gone, oh, nah. Like, I'm not giving that away. That's never, I've never done that. And I, you know, like, I just don't. Especially in dog training. That's one of the reasons, like, to go back to what I was talking about there. Like, I, I want people to do well with their dogs. Yeah, exactly.

Right.

I don't want, I don't. I can't imagine anything worse than someone who has an interest in wanting to train their dog, has a dog that wants training or, And. And therefore will probably be a problem for their life because the dog desperately needs training. And, like, the good. The dogs that enjoy training without it are a big problem.

Right.

So I can't fathom a person who's in that position and is like, oh, well, I guess I'm not going to train this dog because I don't have any money.

Right.

I'm like, no, I will give you all the information to train that dog. Like, I'll give it to you. Here it is. It's all there. Yeah, you. You need to be able to do that. Right. And eventually you'll. You'll be after some finer detail. When you have some money later and you can buy that from me, you'll have a question, specific question. When you have money later and you can buy that, but until then, I'm giving you everything for free.

Yeah, but like, that's the thing. Like, I'm in the exact same mentality. And like, we're the ones.

Yeah.

Like, we're the only ones who do that.

Yeah.

And like, I was so specific when I talked to him. I was like, literally, man, the second thing I said is that I'm going to make Grant Cardone sell me his jet. That was the second thing I said. And he goes, so you want a jet? I go, I don't. I don't think you heard what I said.

I want that jet.

I want that jet and I want him to have to sell it to me. He just was like, okay. And I was like, we're not. It's not a joke, Charlie. Yeah, shout out to Charlie. I'll probably make this into a podcast.

Yeah.

But yeah, Charlie Valor runs a Valor Media. It's a podcasting agency. They do a really good job.

Yeah.

Any other wants to do a podcast.

Charlie's your man, so they do yours.

Yeah.

So they, they edit it and upload it and do all the stuff and make sure it's all good to go and do all the tracking and help us out. They also run the YouTube channel. They do a fair bit of our copywriting as well. They do our emails. So, like, everything's kind of linked up.

Yeah.

You know, and it's all kind of one big.

Yeah.

Mesh. But yeah, it's a man. It's interesting world. It's it. But it is funny though, like, because I've watched your progression over the years, I actually feel like I'm a couple years behind you in terms of like the authority play that you've been able to grab. Because I was still kind of training people when you were starting.

Yeah.

It's a personal training.

Yeah, maybe. Certainly. Like, they're different businesses and money wise, like, there's not that's just not the same.

One in every eight people in employed on the planet is a salesperson.

Yeah.

So in terms of, like, scalability of.

A business, except for real, one in every eight.

Yeah, one in every eight positions is a sales position.

Right. So you're talking like retail or like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just such an enormous sector, though.

Yeah.

And like, because the returns are instant and very easily, like, I guess there's a there's an easy thing go. I spend money on this and I make more money here. Like, it's really easy. So it's a very simple industry. It's just it's just easy.

Yeah.

Like, selling well is not easy, but it's not a difficult industry to be in because there's so many people.

Yeah.

And so, like, the, the pockets of opportunity are enormous and you can just keep growing and growing and growing and growing. And there's no, like, there's no shortage of people to sell, you know, and there's no shortage of things to sell.

Yeah, yeah.

And if you're good at doing that, you literally never have to worry about anything again. Because if you have a skill set that can make somebody else money, the only real problem is that people just see you as a dollar sign. And so, like, you get treated as such.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and so people like I get people youe know, I get five scams a day trying to get me to sell their shit.

Yeah.

You know, I run A fucking crypto Forex, you know, macrame course. You know, it's just like, what the fuck are you talking about? I had some guy the other day, you know, he told me he runs it's an investment coaching business. And I was like, what do they invest in? Like, motorhomes. I was like, you what? They go, yeah, we teach people how to flip motorhomes.

I don't even know what to say about that.

That's exactly what I said. You know, I had a guy come to me was a. Is a Ponzi scheme. And he was like saying everything but it's a Ponzi scheme. And I go like, you know, I'm not a dumb guy. He's like, oh, no, you really great at what you do. I was like, you run a Ponzi scheme. He's like, no, no, no. I was like, hey, dude. Like, like, I'm not for this, but if we go any further, like, I'm just gonna report you to the fcc.

Yeah.

Because they're in the States. And he was like, see you later. So, like, that's the real hard thing is there are so many scams out there. And so it's tough. Like, I can see from a consumer point of view, and it's probably the very same in the dog industry. Like, there are so many charlatans.

Yeah.

And it's like, I'm not gonna name any particular. I think, like the big names like the Grant Cardone's and the Jordan Belforts and all those dudes, like, they're all good at what they do, you know, Grant Cardone's a genius at making money. Jordan Belfort was a genius at stealing money. But now he's, you know, he's, he's a good sales coach. But there are so many, like, little charlatans out there that just charge you 20,000 bucks to teach you how to have a normal conversation with somebody.

Yeah.

And it's just, that's why I was so concerned. And I was like, well, if we're gonna do this, like, we'll do everything. And if you can be bothered sitting down and consuming all the content and collating it together, then, mate, you'll have it all and go for it.

Like, if that's your thing, it's good, man. And you get to go to bed happy. Like, yeah, maybe we should look at finishing somewhere on this. But one of the things that has really made me happy over the last few years especially is that I have decided to never compromise on any of my ethics, no matter what, like, if anything. If anything doesn't fit or I just get a bad feeling or what I never, ever want to do. This is how I live my life now. And I. I'll never be in a position to feel not like this again. And, and before I sort of explain what I'm talking about too much, I will preface that. You know, in the Army, I was lied a lot. Like you. I couldn't tell people what you do. And I worked within the. The especially can't tell people what you do area within the army. And there's always that, like, what I tell this guy, you know, like when you're lying to people and especially when you're doing surveillance, like you are a liar all day. You are pretending to be someone you are not, right? It's it. And for me, some people love that. For me, it was the most stressful experience of my entire life. I hated it. And I think that's why I was good at it, right? Because I was like, I was constantly thinking about it, like, and, and it. Anyway.

But.

So I just decided I was never going to be in a position where I would ever be worried about anyone finding out anything about me, right? Where I'd be like, no, here it all is. Like, here's the whole lot. And I would, like, I. My phone never rings and I'm worried about who's on the end of it. And I never am when I get a message from someone I'm never worried about, like them saying, this guy said this, but I'm like, I don't care. Like, my personal ethics are the most important thing to me above everything else. And I make a lot of what I. I probably would have in the moment. From. An observer would say that's a terrible business decision, right? Because, like, I've missed opportunities. I've lost opportunities. I've. I've done. I've, you know, missed out on probably a lot, a lot of money in a lot of circumstances, but I've never once felt dirty about what I'm doing. And that, for me is the most important thing. And then I feel like that can slow you down, but it can never stop you. And then it's every. Everything snowballs out. Like, from there, everything just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And you never have to worry about someone pulling the plug out of the wall because you've. You're hands free at that point. Right? Like, there's. There's nothing to pull out.

Yeah, exactly. Right. I think, yeah, I think that that's. I mean, I've Known you for a long time and I think, like, you're definitely a straight shooter. I don't think anyone would ever accuse you being anything else. And yeah, like, I think that's a. I think it's the best way to be because.

Yeah.

I just don't, like, I couldn't imagine saying like, we get present, like I said, with a lot of opportunities. Like some of those scams, man, they're 50 commissions.

Yeah.

You know, $10,000, 5,000.

And it's not your problem. You're just the sales guy, you're not the scammer. Right. So you're legally clear of it if.

Well, I could, I could mentor gymnastics my way into being fully cool with that.

Yeah.

Oh, it's probably fine. You know what I mean? Like, and a lot of sales guys do. And I'm like, you can't sell bad stuff, especially if you're good.

Yeah.

Like, because you can, you can get people to do stuff. Like, I've had people sell their cars to do programs.

Yeah.

You know, and like, but it's a good program and they've gotten great results from it. So we're very particular about it. And like, I remember one day we found out that we were selling something that was shit. I was like, fuck that. And we basically like called everybody and we just offered them shit, you know, pulled out and does kind of stuff. And I was like, oh man. As soon as we found that out, we were like, we can't let the opportunity and the dollar signs affect. And the dollar signs are big.

Yeah.

Like, you know, some of our clients pay us well over a hundred thousand dollars a month. And so like, if I was to find out that that client wasn't legit, I would have to pull that immediately. And that's a significant hit to our revenue stream.

Yeah.

Which affects lives.

Yeah.

Because those guys are relying on that revenue, but they're also relying on me to do the due diligence, to make sure it's good. And so they trust me. And I go, no, this is a good product for you to sell. This is good. And so, yeah, like, I just, I think like from your perspective, it's just a long term business strategy. You know, it's like being in the market. Right. Like you can make money short term in the marketplace by shorting stocks and, you know, swing trading and all that kind of stuff. Or you can just invest in blue chip and you can be in it, make your 9% double every 10 years and you're happy, you know, and it's a Long term play. And I think that that play over the long term of just being like, we're only going to do things that feel right.

Yeah.

And we're going to do the due diligence and then. Yeah. Like it doesn't matter who's calling on your phone and what's going to happen. You're never going to get that jolt of anxiety and nothing ever like, and it doesn't happen. And you know, I think like, you know, we've been living by that for a while as well. And it's just. Man, business has been easy.

Yeah, exactly.

And.

And there's a thing, you know, I understand. Both of us understand behavior really well and you in people more than, than me and me and dogs. But there's a big carryover. It's, you know, when I often say to people, especially when I'm teaching him, like all the things that we know about behavioral science. A lot of those experiments were done on dogs, but no one gave a. About the dogs. Like, we're doing this to learn how to control mammal brains. Like, the dogs were just the vessel to figure it out. And you know, Skinner is kind of the original behavioralist of this couple before him. But the couple before him weren't using dogs. Like there were babies that were like really with.

Right.

Like giving aversions to things and all kinds of stuff just to prove how it worked. Right.

Yeah.

So anyway, there's this responsibility that behoves you when you know how to manipulate people like that. Like, and I think that you see a lot of the really good scammers and that kind of stuff. They're as good at it. At you, but their ethics are in the wrong place.

Yeah.

And so like for me, in the it, you know, again, to relate it to dog training, like, my dog will do whatever I tell him.

Right.

Because he's convinced that he is the most powerful being on the planet and he's, he. He can't be injured. So it behoves me not to tell him to do things where he could be.

Yeah.

Because he will do it. If I tell him jump off cliff, he'll be like, got it.

Like, yeah. Yeah.

So like when you understand how to manipulate beings like that, there's a. I feel like there is a big responsibility to be careful how you do that.

Do you know how easy to start a cult?

Yeah.

Like, let's do it.

Yeah.

Hey guys.

If you're feeling marginalized anyway. But like, it's super easy because like for us, like, like in my realm and probably in your Own too because like we've had some funny conversations about some of the comments and that kind of stuff that we get. But like people have like almost deified like, you know, and it can only be a small group. It only needs to be 30.

Yeah.

And like that's a good size coat. Yeah, it's a good sized cult. You know, you can have sex with a lot of random people's wives with a.

Quit a cult that size, ultimately all kill yourself.

Yeah, exactly. That's the dream. And again, if you're feeling marginalized.

No.

And so like, but I. We've had to have the chat because like people will work for me for free.

Yeah.

Like, and they'll work themselves to death.

Yeah.

And so like one of our, I guess predecessors, he shall not be named. That's. That was what he did. Like he basically got people to pay him. And then from there like, and all of my. All pretty much every guy that's ever sales coach for me has sales coach with me. They end up working for me because they like my style, they like it. The culture that I breed, all that kind of stuff. And that culture is really strong. And so like people come to me wanting to work for me and they're saying like, hey listen, I'll quit my job and I'll work for you for free for six months if you'll cheat me. I breed all that kind of stuff and that culture is really strong. And so like people come to me wanting to work for me and they're saying like, hey listen, I'll quit my job and I'll work for you for free for six months if you'll teach me. And it's like work for free. And like it's really easy. Like I could have 30 people tomorrow and I could have a free workforce and I could throw human suffering at things and make a lot of money off them. And at the end of the day they're going to go back to their families and they're going to be broke as.

Yeah.

And yes, they would have learned a skill, but that skill is going to take a while for them to attribute. And I was like, like I have the conversation every month. I'm like, is everybody being paid and how much are they being paid and is this person being paid enough? Like I tripled the wage of one of our guys. He's on a retainer. Like he's an appointment setter. But like, you know, he's in a really bad situation. It's actually very interesting. He's a great guy. We're Actually moving him state because his parents are both junkies and he works for me for a retainer and then he gets commissions on top. But what he sells is pretty small. Sound like a training role. But I was like, I'll pay you. Like, I can't pay you a lot because you don't make me much, but I'll pay you to train. It's been going for like six months. And he's a hard worker. So I was like talking to him today. I was like, okay, talking about your family life, how's everything going at home, how much money you're making? And it hadn't really gone up much. And I was like, me? I was like. And I got 32 people. I can't be on top of everybody. And if they don't come to me like, dude, I can't give you more money unless you ask me for it.

Yeah.

You know? And so I was like, shit, you need to be making more than that. He's like, oh, yeah, it's okay. And I was like, no, no, no, you need to make at least double. I was like, congratulations, I'm tripling your wage. He's like, oh, okay. So he's like, oh, shit. He starts crying and stuff like that. But like, this guy's a great hard worker. He's a phenomenal dude. Never sold a thing in his life beforehand. Was really scared to just have interactions with people because his mom's a meth head and his dad's a cokehead.

Yeah, right.

He lives in the middle of the US like in some bum fuck town that no one cares about and everyone's on ice.

Right.

You know, and it, it's just like, that guy would have worked for me for free for three years.

Yeah.

And like, it's a really strange phenomenon when you do put yourself out there and you do go on camera and all of a sudden people start listening to you. There is a significant responsibility to have a good ethic about you because it is so easy to build an empire on the back of people who just idolize you.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, it sounds really up yourself, but you don't even need that many people. Like I say, if you have 10 people who think you're the best, they will do shit for you for free.

Yeah.

Until the cows come home. I know so many guys who are in the same similar position to me or not, like, sort of who just get three shit thrown at them constantly. And I was like, I will take nothing for free. Like, I will pay for everything. I won't Even trade services.

Yeah.

I was like, I will pay for everything. If you want something for me, you can pay me. If I want something from you, I will pay you.

Yeah.

If I want you to train my dog, I will pay you. I don't want a mate rate. Just do your thing. Because I want you to have the same level of value attached to what you're doing with me as to what you're doing with somebody else, you know? And so like, it is a, it's a really interesting phenomenon and I'm sure that you've had it as well. You're like, hey, I'd love to learn off you for free. Or, you know, it's big indulgence.

We call it shadow programs and people actually pay to just follow you around for a week. And it like just, I mean, they get, they're learning stuff from you. But I mean, it doesn't work for what I do because, like, I don't work in a facility, Right? So it really is only if you work in facility. But there are people that run shadow programs and it's like, oh, you know, like, come to my house and like, it's, it's dirty, it feels gross. And you know, there are people that do it. Well, I'll admit that There certainly are. People do. Well, it's not like it's a totally bad thing. But I hear people going like, oh, I'm gonna go do a shadow program with this guy and I'm gonna pay whatever. And then I ask them how it was and they're like, yeah, I just shadowed a dude.

Yeah.

Like I just followed him around and it like, you know, I get that say with decoying, right? So getting bitten by dogs, there's a lot of people. There aren't many people in Australia that can do that. I'm only like on the scale of like, terrible to excellent. You know, maybe I'm good at it, right? But I'm, I locally, I'm one of the best. Because there aren't many people that do it. But I'm not saying I'm especially good at it. A lot of people like come to me and say, hey, I want to learn to decoy. I'm like, it's a three year thing because, like, I can't teach you that in a week. I don't have the dogs. Like, I can't put you in front of enough dogs that you're going to be competent in a week. But there's heaps of people that will, right? And it's like, yeah, come and I'LL teach you how to catch this one dog. So I got, like, one dog in this house right now that I can teach someone to be bitten by. And like, for your audience, like, the decoy is the trainer. When you. When you're training an attack dog, it's kind of like sparring. You've got a coach who's on the outside of the ring and he's throwing out hot tips and trying to manipulate you. But the guy you're sparring with is the one that you're learning from, right?

Yeah.

It's the same with training a dog. Like, if you train your dog to bite, the guy who's biting is the one that's training him. And you have people say, like, can I come over and learn how to decoy? And I'm like, yeah, like, you can come and get bit by my dog, but he's one dog. And there's a lot of different kinds. Like, it's literally. It took me three years of doing it sort of with as many dogs as I could. And all over the world, I was like, yeah. Before I was like, oh, okay. Like, I'm at a point where I. I'm not. I'm definitely not going to set anyone's dog back.

Right.

But then I work at French Ring, dog, and French Ring is a whole nother thing. There's a dog that I work in the States I've worked in a few times. His name's King Kong the Tripod. He's only got three legs.

I thought I had a huge penis.

Well, you might.

He's a really good dog.

But that was my name in high school.

Yeah.

But so I've never once caught him where I've been wanting to. The dog outsmarts me every time.

Right.

And so, like, who would I be to Then People go, can I come and learn to deco? I'm like, yeah, you can come and get bit by my dog. And then go like, yep, you got it, bro.

How do you condense all that knowledge into.

You can't.

Right.

So that's the thing. Exactly. And there's no space for nuance. Like, yep, my dog who bites in this way, you can learn to catch him. Right. Like. But that's all I can offer you. I can't call you a decoy.

And you shouldn't.

You.

You certainly shouldn't call yourself one because you can get your legs broken.

Yeah.

Or you're going to get your face bitten by another dog.

People are going to overestimate the amount of osmosis learning. You can Do? Yeah, you know, like, just being around. I have guys because we're doing the office in Sydney. It's going to be cool. Fucking office. Like, I'm not going to lie, I've gone all out.

Yeah, well, next time we'll do it in there. It'll be there.

And we could be at the bar or the pool table or the arcade machine.

We'll have to wear wireless microphones.

Yeah.

We could just be wherever and. Yeah. And the guy was like, hey, I'll pay to, like, work out of the office. And I was like, yeah. I mean, if you want to liquidate some of my rent, you can, but what are you hoping to achieve? It's like, oh, just be in the environment. Get better at sales. And I was like, all you will learn is the inner workings of my company. I was like, if you want to run a company like mine, that might be a benefit to you. I was like, but other than that, man, like, I'm not gonna. You're not gonna osmosis anything because we're all doing our thing.

Yeah.

Like, me and Ben are in the office. I barely speak to him.

Yeah.

Like, one of my best friends is. We're two feet away. Haven't spoken to for three days.

Yeah.

We speak on slack.

Yeah.

You know, and. And I had another guy messaged me, like, literally in the car on the way over here, and he's like, hey, how much to fly out to you and, like, have you mentor me for two weeks? And I was like, I mean, for one, I don't want to hang out with someone for two weeks. I was like, that's just not happening.

Yeah.

So no money. And I was like, two. You would get nothing out of it.

Yeah.

This is not how training works.

Yeah.

I can't provide you with anything. We can't train eight hours a day. First of all, I. I wouldn't even know how to charge for that because I'd have to put my entire company on hold for a week, which would cost you probably over a hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah.

Of which I would feel bad charging. You know, Like, I'll be like, because what are you gonna get? Like, I would overload your brain with so much information that you would not absorb 10% of it.

Yeah.

So just pay me for an hour a week, and you'll get far more out of it. Then you can go away. We can work on one thing. You can practice it. We can come back, work on the next thing. Of which you can then go and practice.

Yeah.

Because I hate to break it to you guys. But you just have to go out and do stuff.

Yeah.

Takes time.

Get good at it. You know, young people, man. Like, we're not old or anything, but I got a couple of guys who were, like, early 20s. They're like, how do I get over this? And I was like, you need to have another five years of life.

Yeah.

And then you will get over that, because you just don't have. You haven't had enough conversations with people.

Yeah.

Like, I know where the conversation's going, and I can't teach you that because I've had years and years and years of conversations. And I was the new guy because I moved 11 times.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was the new guy. So, like, I know what that's like.

It's funny.

Yeah.

I've had many amazing mentors and dog training me. Very lucky that I've fallen into the right places at a light time as well as worked hard and, you know, cultivated those relationships, but I've had a lot of luck.

Well, like, what's the. What is it? The worst thing that can happen when you get a mentor is that they just end up being your mentor.

Yeah. Right.

That's the worst thing that can happen.

Yeah.

So, like, best thing that can happen is.

That's deep.

It becomes a much more impactful relationship.

And I've.

In both directions.

I've been lucky my whole life. I've had that. But. So Bart, who. Bart Bellon is arguably the, you know, best dog trainer ever. That. Yeah, that's a difficult thing to say because there's different aspects of it. But, you know, he speaks five languages. Right. And so sometimes when he types stuff, like, he'll comment on things, it's broken English. And sometimes he, you know, he might mistranslate something or something, you know, seems like it doesn't make sense. So one day, and he's watched my dog grow up, he's been helping me with him, you know, all along and learning his system on that dog. And one day I put this Facebook post up about, like, how happy I was because the dog had really matured and was powerful. And, like, I just, you know, we'd been through some, you know, ups and downs with him, and I was just saying how happy I was. And Bart wrote on there, time takes time. And I was like, yeah, like, is that like a Belgian saying that I don't understand? Like, and I kind of laughed it off as, like, didn't translate. Didn't. Didn't make any sense, man. Like, that is. Now I reflect on it a Lot. And I think it's one of the most man's done some living, dude. Like, it is one of the most important, impactful things anybody's ever said to me. Like, some things just can't be rushed.

Right.

Like, time takes time.

It.

The dog was always going to grow into being this powerhouse that he is, but he had to grow into being that. Like, he couldn't just be born.

It.

That's. Time takes time.

Yeah.

I think that's only something you can know in retrospect.

Yeah, it really is. Well, and then apply forward. But you have to through it and be like.

And yeah, it's. It's. Once you've. Once you've peeked over the mountaintop.

Yeah.

I mean, like, you don't know it's there until you know it's there. And then once you see it's there, you can climb the mountain. And once you get to the mountain, you can see what's next.

Yeah.

You know, and it really is one of those things. And I was lucky. I don't know if I was lucky, but I picked up my particular profession very quickly. Well, I didn't. I did. I didn't realize I was in sales until I was in sales for 10 years. And then I was like, oh, I think I'm in sales. Yeah, like that. Because I was selling PT for so long and I was selling the living bejesus out of it. But I was put in a position very similar to you where I just fucking had to.

Yeah.

Like, I hated it. I had no intention of ever being in sales. Would never have. If you would have told me 10 years ago what I'm doing now, I'd be like, fuck off. Like, there's no chance. Yeah, I would have been like, I have 10 gyms and I have this. And it's like, fuck you. I literally couldn't think of anything worse right now.

Yeah.

Jesus. But yeah, like, so I had a lot of interactions with people, a lot of conversations, and then people come to me and I was like. Because I came into the high ticket realm and then became known as probably one of the top five in the industry, hands down, no questions asked in a year.

Yeah. Right.

And everyone's like, fuck, how did you do that? And I was like, well, I sold for 10 years. Really inexpensive, very hard things to sell. Because when you're selling fitness, you're asking people to give you money, give you time, stop doing things that they really enjoy, and be in physical pain. So if you can get people to do that consistently. And I was Like, I had to because I was the guy who had to do it because nobody else could do it or would do it. So I was like, well, someone's got to make the money. So I did that. And then by the time I went into high ticket sales, where you're selling expensive things, but there's a huge monetary output on the other side. Do you have a return of investment? It was easy. I made 12 grand my first week in high ticket selling. And I was like. I called my business partner. I was like, we do this now. I went from.

It was done selling Jim membership.

Oh, well, I mean, I had started a business just selling gym memberships.

Right.

My business was called fitness sales Sniper. That's where it came from.

Yeah.

And then literally this guy was like, hey, I'll pay a $2,000 commission. I saw it on this Facebook post to sell business coaching sales. And I applied and I was like, yeah, I've done business coaching sales my whole life. I basically born doing it on the best business was, you know, I was just like, I'll just go in there and he totally ignore me. And then I called him, I messaged him and I said, I'll pay for the leads.

Yeah.

I was broke. I was like, there was a promise I could not fulfill. I would have tried. I would have done it.

So what does that mean? You said it costs him whatever it does to put you on the phone with someone, and if you don't close them, you'll pay him back for what?

They would have been like 400 bucks to get someone on the phone.

Right.

And that's through his advertising, getting them through the funnel.

Yeah.

And because the program was 24,000. And so I was like, I'll do this. And he was like, no one's ever said that before. So he gave me the job and he gave me like eight sales calls. Close six. Two thousand bucks a sale. Twelve grand. And I called him James and business partner. I was like, hey, we, we do this now. And then I just basically went down the rabbit hole, like, super deep. And I was like, how do we get good this?

Yeah.

And that was where it all came from. But like, people like, see that and like, oh, I can replicate that.

Yeah.

Like, well, it's not replicatable, not because I'm special. It's because of the circumstances in which I came into it.

Yeah.

So like, I had like slogged eight hours a day calling four to $500 a day calling leads, having thousands and thousands of interactions. And the way that I describe it is like, if you see a puzzle, like, the first time you look at a puzzle, it's really confusing. It's just a mixed up jigsaw puzzle. But then eventually you realize there's a pattern. You start with the edges. Okay. If you want to start with the edge, you start with the corner. Then when you go to the corners, you go out from there, and then you start identifying the patterns. I need this piece. This piece. This piece. Look for straight edges. Look for straight edges. And then just put all the straight edges up. And then all of a sudden, you're just seeing patterns and putting it together. And then you work your way in. But when somebody starts doing sales or someone starts. They're starting from the middle, and they're doing patchwork here and there, and it makes no sense. And so by. By seeing enough puzzles, you just sort of figure out how they work.

Yeah.

And then from there, you're like, oh, I've seen this before. And then you can just put it together. It's the same with dogs or same with anything. You see enough of it, and all of a sudden you. Pattern recognition. And then what happens? Like, what's the first thing you do when you get a dog? You name it. What's the second thing you should do, potentially is get it to call. Get it to come when you call it. And it's the same with any skill set. Whenever you get a skill set, when you want to get good at it, you then name the skill set. Then you can identify, and then you can recall how to sort of bring it back. So, like, I have names for all of my things that I do in sales. Like, I lay out the sales process, and it's this and this and this and this. And then it's like, if someone gives me, like, a language pattern, Identified the language pattern, I name it. That's a hesitation. I know what that's going to produce in 10 minutes. And then I bring out a frame that I can use to stop that thought pattern in its tracks, Change the thought pattern to be something different that I know how to handle better. And so it's just Nate call. It's a name and recall name and recall name rec. Cool.

And it.

But you just have to see a lot of things and hear a lot of things in order to do that effectively. Same thing. Like with shooting, like. Like I was in snipers. You know, dudes want to get really good at, like, shooting with wind. It's like, man, you just got to shoot in a lot of wind.

Yeah.

To where you can see that and go. That's probably this strong.

Yeah.

I'm gonna aim off here. And it's more of an art than it is a science.

Yeah.

Because it just feels right. Yeah, but that just takes a lot of shots. Of course.

Yeah.

On sniper course, you just shoot a lot. And then snipers, like, we shot four days a week. Why do you do that? Because when you go to shoot people in Afghanistan, like, you need to have shot a lot of targets.

Yeah, I talk about that. You know, army stuff. In regards to shooting in the tag, where I spent most of my career, like, it's not.

You were there and it was black.

Back in the day, if I do B roll, I'm gonna put B roll of me in the black suit, the whole lot. Right. Like back. Like, back when it was something. Not that it's not something now, but back when it was. There was no war on. There was no war on. It was the place.

The tag is Tactical Assault Group. It's the domestic kind of terrorism.

Yeah. But it was the place. But it's not uncommon to shoot 10,000 rounds a week per person.

Yeah. Right.

Like, and as a civilian, that's like a dollar around, like, for a nightmare. Around, like, that's like 10.

We shot three, three eight lapia match grade. $13 around.

So, you know, I was doing seminar in the States a while ago, and a guy was like, hey, you want to go out the range, do some shooting? I was like, oh, yeah, I guess, like, and he was really into shooting, and I just, like, out shot the. Out of him. I haven't shot for years, but I was like, dude, I have done this so much. Like, this is. This is. And. And. And not for funsies either. Like, this was my job, and if I was bad at it, I would have been killed.

And so the consequences are dire.

Yeah.

So, like, I'm fucking good at this, and it's not something I have Interesting. Yeah.

And like, comparatively, you can be not good at it in the unit. Yeah, but you're still better than almost everybody.

Exactly.

Right.

Like, I wasn't a standout shooter, but in that group of people.

Look at, like, a Brett Wood. You watch. You watched him shoot back in the day. I remember, like, going through a house with him. Brett was one of our friends that died overseas.

Yeah.

And that man was like. It was like watching a movie.

Yeah.

He's in the Matrix. He's in the Matrix. Like, he just is, like, ones and zeros coming at him, fighting through.

Yeah.

Um, but amazing to see people in that. I actually use that term all the time in the Matrix. I have it. There's a time when I've coached someone where I go, they might have signed up for three months. And I go, you're done. I go, you're in the Matrix now. Welcome to the Ones and zeros.

Yeah.

And I, Because I role play with them, like, oh, you know, you're sitting behind it. You know what I'm going to do, right? Like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, you're done.

Yeah, yeah.

You just need to go practice now. You don't need me anymore.

Yeah, yeah.

You still pay.

And on that will finish. We probably should. Otherwise, no one's going to watch this anyway.

They'll watch. Hey, but if you're feeling marginalized.

Yeah, yeah, should be.

Thanks for coming around and let's see how this performs.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't care.

I wasn't a standout shooter, but in that group of people.

Look like a Brett Wood, neither.

It's gonna be. It's gonna be interesting, and I guess we'll touch base in a few months about it and see where our YouTubing is at.

Yeah.

Where are you at? What are your stats right now?

I think I've got 1850 subscribers or something.

Like, watch. You watched him shoot back in the day. I remember, like, going through a house with him. Brett was one of our friends that died overseas.

Yeah.

And that man was like. It was like watching a movie.

Yeah.

He's in the Matrix. He's in the Matrix. Like, he just is, like, ones and zeros coming at him, fighting through.

Yeah.

I'll tell you, I'm a bit behind you.

And I'm like, just under 2000 hours of watch time. I think I was like, 1800 hours of watch.

I've got about 36 hours, 100 hours of watch time.

Oh, my God. You're the guy.

I'm the guy.

You're the guy.

I mean, the enormity of my success is hard to believe.

Like I say, like, in all honesty, I'm not really chasing big numbers. And what I do is so niche.

I've got 715 subscribers and about three and a half thousand hours of watch time.

Yeah, right.

All right, well, we're in this. And, like, it's been a month or two.

Oh, no. I've got, like, 82 videos up.

Yeah, right.

So I've been uploading because I upload the podcast as well.

All right.

Okay. So, like, I guess for me, that's a strategy as well, because I actually prefer people to watch the podcast on YouTube. It's amazing to see people in that. I actually use that term all the time in the Matrix. I have it. There's a time.

Right.

So we, we really try and get the podcast to be more YouTube. We still get way more downloads on the, on the RSS feeds and stuff, but I can't monetize that.

Yeah, yeah.

So if I can push them to what if I can push a third of them to watch it, then I can actually get paid for that. When I've coached someone where I go, they might have signed up for three months, and I go, you're done. I go, you're in the Matrix now. Welcome to the ones and zeros.

Yeah.

And because I a role play with them, like, oh, you know, you've seen behind it. You know what I'm gonna do, right? Like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, you're done.

Yeah, yeah.

You just then liquidates all the spend for the podcast.

Yeah, we're.

We're thinking with it. We're not thinking. We're planning with the podcast to start a YouTube channel and do clips. So we're going to start filming it and then just have like, if we say something good and put that out as a clip just to help people get the information. And like I say like, it's the metrics really for me is really that I, I feel like I have good information. I feel urged to pass that on.

And you will be surprised the moment you release the entire thing on YouTube. People will watch it.

Yeah.

Because like I get screenshots. People, they put it on their tv.

Yeah.

And they watch it like a TV show every week.

Yeah, well, we.

I get that with a Patreon for sure. People watch that, but it doesn't count. Anyway, how to. What's your details and stuff?

I'm sure there'll be links in the description.

Links everywhere.

Sales sniper.net I'm pretty sure it's. I think it's changing soon, but whatever. But yeah, like, I think we should dial it like this. I think like for me it's behind the scenes and fun stuff like, you know, I don't know. Eventually I want to be more than just a sales guy. Just need to go practice now you don't need me anymore.

Yeah. Yeah.

You still pay.

And on that will finish. We probably should. Otherwise no one's gonna watch this anyway.

They'll watch.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah.

I don't want to be a sales guy at all.

Hey, but if you're feeling marginalized.

Yeah, yeah.

Should be. Thanks for coming.

Yeah.

I mean, I've thought about dabbling in dogs, but not anything. Seriously.

Don't. It's hard.

I'm gonna exclusively train female dogs. I think that's a good niche. It's not female pugs.

Female pug. Well, it's probably.

The owners are rich.

Yeah.

So, you know, I learned something the other day because there's a Sharpay at the dog park.

I know you have been around, and let's see how this performs.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't care. My feelings in dog parks, but we were there, and I was like, stay away from that Sharpay, because we can't read it.

Yeah.

I mean, I can't read a dog anyway.

Yeah.

So that doesn't really help me, but I felt like it. I felt cool.

Yeah.

You know.

You know, that video actually is the first thing I ever uploaded to YouTube. And it was just because I kept losing it in my phone. That was the reason I was like, where is this, like, a video? And I'd like to take me. Same as the other story. Take me forever to find it.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, that. I'll put that on YouTube so I can actually send that to people. I should say. I don't know how many views it's ever gotten.

Just one thing I will, before we finish is, who is your YouTube inspiration?

Yeah.

Peter McKinnon, of course.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Well, in that. In that space, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely neither. It's gonna be. It's gonna be interesting, and I guess we'll touch base in a few months about it and see where our YouTubing is at.

Yeah.

Where. Where are you at?

What are your stats right now?

I think I've got 1850 subscribers or something. Like. Like the setup and stuff, and. And just the visuals of it. And that's what I've been enjoying learning.

Yeah.

I love it. I storyboard all of my. I don't do my own editing, but I storyboard it. All the vlogs are a whole different thing. Like, they're. They're. They're a monster of an effort.

Yeah.

I don't do the editing. If I did the editing, I. I couldn't do it.

Yeah.

Because I have to film probably six hours of content.

Yeah.

And then storyboard the whole thing.

Oh, dude. So I made this thing, it's in our Patreon, called Raising Working Puppies, and it only went for, I think, 30.

I'll tell you, I'm a bit behind you.

And I'm like, just under 2006 minutes or something, dude. It was one of the hardest things I've ever put together in my life. And it was just a story of a bunch of puppies that didn't work out right.

The congruency of videos is a nightmare, man.

It was hard work and interviews with people and then editing all of that and having the narrative. And I had it in my head that people were going to say something and I'd storyboarded that like, in my mind of how this was going to go. And then they didn't say the. That I thought they were going to say. And hours of watch time. Hours. I think I was like 1800 hours of watch.

I've got about 36 hours, 100 hours of watch time.

Oh, my God, you're the guy.

I'm the guy.

You're the guy.

I mean, the enormity of my success is hard to believe.

Like I say, like, in all honesty, I'm not really chasing. So I was like, okay, this has taken a whole another turn. And I was happy with it, man. It came out. People got. Got a lot of good feedback and. But the work involved was. It was that. That literally even discount the like actual time filming, just putting it together was probably a week of work.

You know, I was going to do a similar concept to what you did with that. That video that I was in.

Yeah. So that's the one.

Oh, yeah, that was great.

Oh, no, no, that was a different one. That was the one before.

Yeah, Yeah, I was going to do the same concept.

Yeah.

And I like got halfway through the first video and I was like, no way. Yeah, this is too much. Because I had to do interviews.

This is hard work.

I logistically could not manage to get it done.

Big numbers. And what I do is so niche. Yeah, it's hard work. And so. But the Patreon ones, they just come out once a month. And so I've actually even currently got like six of them on the go. And so that when I get the piece, I go, okay, that, that goes into there. And then, you know, when one sort of 80, I'm like, okay, now I'm on the clock to finish that one because that's going to be next month.

It's. Isn't it funny? Like, I stress out because I have, I get this, I post at the same time. Right. Because YouTube loves consistency and like, although it affects me in no way, I am like the most stressful deadline that I have. Is that my YouTube channel?

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it's fun.

Yeah.

Anyway, it's fun.

Put 715 subscribers and about three and a half thousand hours of watch time.

Yeah.

Right. All right, well, we're in this and how like it's been a month or two.

Oh no, I've got like 82 videos up.

Yeah.

So I've been uploading because I upload the podcast as well.

All right.

Okay. So like I guess for me that's a strange.

That coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.

Energy as well because I actually prefer people to watch the podcast on YouTube.

Right.

So we. We really try and get the podcast to be more YouTube. We still get way more downloads on the. On the RSS feeds and stuff. But I can't monetize that.

Yeah. Yeah.

So if I can push them to. What if I can push a third of them to watch it, then I can actually get paid for that, which then liquidates all the spend for the podcast.

Yeah, we're thinking with it. We're not thinking. We're planning with the podcast to start a YouTube channel and do clips. So we're going to start filming it and then just have like, if we say something good and put that as a clip just to help people get the information. And like I say like it's the metrics really for me is really that I. I feel like I have good information. I feel urged to pass that on.

And you will be surprised the moment you release the entire thing on YouTube. People will watch it.

Yeah.

Because like I get screenshots people, they put it on their tv.

Yeah.

And they watch it like a TV show every week.

Yeah.

Well, we. I get that with the Patreon for sure. People will watch that, but it doesn't count. Anyway, how to. What's your details and stuff?

I'm sure there'll be links in the description.

Links everywhere.

Sales sniper dot net. I'm pretty sure it's. I think it's changing soon, but whatever. But yeah, like, I think we should die like this. I think like for me it's behind the scenes and fun stuff. Like, you know, I don't know. Eventually I want to be more than just a sales guy.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah.

I don't want to be a sales guy at all.

Yeah.

I mean, I've thought about dabbling in dogs, but not anything. Seriously, don't.

It's hard.

I'm exclusively trained female dogs. I think that's a good niche. It's not female pugs.

Female pug. Well, it's probably.

The owners are rich.

Yeah.

So, you know, I learned something the other day, because there's a Sharpay at the dog park. I know you have feelings in dog parks, but we were there and I was like, stay away from that Sharpay because we can't read it.

Yeah.

I mean, I can't read a dog anyway.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that doesn't really help me, but I felt like it. I felt cool.

Yeah.

You know.

You know, that video actually is the first thing I ever uploaded to YouTube. And it was just because I kept losing it in my phone. That was the reason I was like, where is this, like, a video? And I, like, take me. Same as the other story. Take me forever to find it.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, that. I'll put that on YouTube so I can actually send that to people. I should say. I don't know how many views it's ever gotten.

Just one thing I will, before we finish is, who is your YouTube inspiration?

Yeah.

Peter McKinney, of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, in that. In that space, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Like the setup and stuff and. And just the visuals of it. And that's what I've been enjoying learning.

Yeah.

I love it. I storyboard all of my. I don't do my own editing, but I storyboard it. All the vlogs are a whole different thing. Like, they're. They're. They're a monster of an effort.

Yeah.

I don't do the editing. If I did the editing, I. I couldn't do it.

Yeah.

Because I have to film probably six hours of content.

Yeah.

And then storyboard the whole thing.

Oh, dude. So I made this thing, it's in our Patreon called Raising Working Puppies. And it only went for, I think, 36 minutes or something. Dude. It was one of the hardest things I've ever put together in my life. And it was just a story of a bunch of puppies that didn't work out.

Right.

The congruency of videos is a nightmare, man.

It was hard work and interviews with people and then editing all of that and having the narrative. And I had it in my head that people were going to say something. And I'd storyboarded that, like, in my mind of how this was going to go. And then they didn't say the. That I thought they were going to say. So I was like, okay, this has taken a whole nother turn. And I was happy with it, man. It came out. People got a lot of good feedback and. But the work involved was. It was that literally even discount. The, like, actual time filming, just putting it together was Probably a week of work.

You know, I was going to do a similar concept to what you did with that. That video that I was in.

Yeah. So that's the one.

Oh, yeah, that was great.

Oh, no, no, that was a different one. That was the one before.

Yeah, Yeah, I was gonna do the same concept.

Yeah.

And I, like, got halfway through the first video and I was like, no way.

Yeah.

This is too much. Because I had to do interviews.

This is hard work.

I logistically could not manage to get it done.

Yeah, it's hard work. And so. But the Patreon ones, they just come out once a month. And so I've actually even currently got, like, six of them on the go. And so that when I get the piece, I go like, okay, that. That goes into there. And then, you know, when one sort of 80, I'm like, okay, now I'm on the clock to finish that one because that's going to be next month.

It's. Isn't it funny? Like, I stress out because I have. I get this. I post at the same time.

Right.

Because YouTube loves consistency. And, like, although it affects me in no way, I am, like, the most stressful deadline that I have. Is that my YouTube channel?

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it's fun. Free.

Yeah.

Anyway, it's fun. Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.