What's going on in the industry - CIFC Episode 132
Matt Ryder and the CIFC crew discuss what's shifting in coaching and sales training. Lead generation costs are climbing, social media platforms are changing the game, and Andrew Tate's rise is reshaping how the industry operates.
Like, that was incredible. That was like a alpha male coming in and just cucking someone.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, it was incredible.
Yeah.
And I'm not an Andrew Tate fan, but I was like, man, that dude is smart.
Yeah, yeah.
And unrelenting in his confidence.
Yeah. Yeah.
I would not want to debate him.
Yeah.
Even on something. I knew I was right. The sky is blue. Well, I'll tell you why the sky's purple.
Welcome back to another episode of Coffee is for Closers. It's me and Matt today and we are talking about some stuff that's going on in the industry.
Industry stuff. Industry stuff.
Yeah.
Here's the intro.
Ex special forces sniper turned entrepreneur, I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast and I'm telling you to put that coffee down.
And we're back.
Yeah.
So, yeah, man, weird time in the industry. Lots of coaching companies dying. I did a post the other day on Facebook and it was like, I think I see a couple of things. One is that sales are getting harder to make, so you have to be more skilled so we can go into that too. Is that like the lead generation tactics that a lot of companies are using? Like, there's a consolidation of like. So I think what happens is you get these like, expansion and like constrictions.
Yeah.
And so during COVID there is like this huge expansion of the coaching industry. So tons of these, like, smaller coaches took advantage of the explosion of online education. Now what's happening is those people who potentially didn't set themselves up for success for long term. Like, they just use all the short term strategies. They're being condensed down because, like our leads at seventh level have gotten cheaper every month.
Right.
But everybody else's leads are getting significantly more expensive. Some of the accounts that are in their lead cost us like 5x.
Really?
Yeah. Yeah.
So they won't be clients for much longer. Like, just because it's gonna afford it, it's gonna become ridiculous. And we've already seen a consolidation of clients at Sales Sniper of like, people who just can't get leads. It's really interesting. Now we're lucky to where we have incoming people wanting to do it, but it's like, it's almost confusing because, like, I have a coaching company and our lead costs literally gone down, down, down, down, down, down, down. The bigger we get. But everyone else's are. A lot of. A lot of other people's are blowing out.
I think though, like, sales coaching is kind of. It's immortal, really. Right.
It's got a big tam. Yeah.
Total accessible market, everybody. What'd you say, like one in every.
Eight salaried positions is a sales role?
Yeah.
So selling, sales training, super easy. But I think the life coaching type stuff, like people who like something that's not so tangible. And I feel like, you know, I, I have certainly observed that sort of post covered like a lot of people. Even like back end of COVID and people were like, yeah, you know, it's time for a change. And they're sort of reskilling and doing all these kinds of things.
Yeah.
But maybe that sort of bubble is over.
Right.
Do you think that people now are sort of like, I'm gonna put up with my depression.
There's actually biz ops seem to be like coming to the head. Like, they seem to be rising. So like, what it was like, I think like biz ops a few years ago were like cheaper. They were like 2, 3, 5k maybe. And they would teach you how to run an Amazon store.
Right.
And then high ticket coaching was like 10, 20, 30, 50. Now high ticket coaching seems to be like five grand. Ten grand. And biz ops are from 30 to seven figures.
Wow. Right.
Because people would rather just pay the money to have it done for them and then so they're or their syndicate buying or whatever it is they're doing. But biz op seems to be becoming the new high ticket.
Okay.
So business opportunity. Right. And high ticket seems to be getting a little bit lower in terms of, you know, it's, it's actual price points that are being sold really successfully.
Give me some examples of like when you say high ticket, like what is the actual tangible thing that people are learning from those coaches? Like some examples.
Yeah, Yeah.
I think that one of the problems with high ticket is like it's a 30k program. However, it's not because you're getting access to a program. Most people pay like 12, 2500amonth for 12 months. Like in a lot of the backend that I've seen, those clients stay for 40, 50% of that. Okay. So realistically, like a 30K is more like a 12. You know, in terms of like what they get. Some. Some clients will. Some people will keep them for longer than that. At seventh level, we only sell three and six months. We used to sell 12 months inner circle. But like I just didn't see the point because I'd rather kind of charge a bit less and like have the clients turn over faster or resign them.
Explain to me how that works so that you buy the six month.
Yeah. So six months of inner circle. So it's like, you know, you get trained by Jeremy for six months.
Okay. So like that's a regular coaching call. The group call people are all on that. And your time to be in that expires.
Yeah.
It doesn't come in in batches, do they? People trickle in and out. Like your 6 month is the day you start or is there a start time?
No. So it's a, it's a constant new people rolling through.
Okay.
And then we, we have access to one. So we have. As part of that you get one on one coaching with, with like with a coach, not Jeremy. And then you get access to. I think it's like we do a daily role play. We do. Jeremy does three, four sessions a week. So he does an advanced scripting and a beginner scripting. And then he does like an advanced role play and a beginner role play. And then we have a rock star of an insurance guy come in and do specific insurance stuff of a rock star of a door to door guy coming and do specific door to door stuff. And then we have Marco doing advanced objection handling and myself doing sales process and role play. So it's like a very comprehensive program.
Yeah.
There's nothing better.
Yeah.
Like I've seen the market, a 3.0 inner circle and they destroy all other coaching programs.
Yeah.
In terms of like deliverables.
So then like awesome plug.
Yeah.
But let's talk about something else, like a different thing.
So, but that's, that's what we do. Right. So then like we, and we, we get most people to pay up front. We just do. But other ones, it's like other programs that I've joined, let's say it was 2500amonth, 30K. So seventh level. Our fulfillment rate is huge. Like everyone, almost everybody does the whole thing, pays for the whole thing. Our refund rates less than 1%.
Right.
At a standard coaching company, you get three or four group training sessions a week in a portal.
Okay.
That's it.
Yeah. And so like what you're buying is like, you know, maybe usually they're quite generic, you know, and they're not business coaching. I'll be very clear. It's like sales and marketing. Or it's not even marketing coaching. It would be be like funnel building and sales. But like the sales training they're giving you is sort of watered down crap because they're not that good at sales anyway. So really what you're getting is like, hey, these are the funnels that Are currently working for me.
And so the delivery on that is like you say a portal. People probably smash through that in a couple of days.
Yeah.
Then they're. They're going for their regular coaching calls.
Yeah.
That's why the. It's just like there are guys that do it out there, right?
Like.
Like Cole, who does like a lot of stuff. I think, like, from what I've seen, like, his. His stuff is like really good. Is a lot of in person events.
Right.
If you can do that kind of stuff, like a lot of in person events, like, those things tend to work better. You get guest speakers out. Make it into a thing, make it something cool. If I was going to do a business coaching program, like, I would break it up into like finance and I'd have an accountant come in and do stuff. I would break it up into marketing and I would have Marco do stuff. But like, marketing is a huge subject in itself. Right. And then I would have sales and I would have like, business strategy based on where you want to go, what you want to do, what outcomes you want.
Right.
That's. So I would do it and I would try and do some stuff in person, virtually, shit like that. Like, there are some good coaching programs out there, but most of them are just kind of like dribble. Which is why, like, now what I'm seeing is the accounts that are successful are far more specific.
Right.
Like, one of the things that we sell is like a real estate offer, right. And it teaches you how to land flip. It's called vest. Right. Go and check them out if you want, make a sale. I'll get some cash. Cool.
Right.
They're really good at what they do. Like, phenomenal. And what is really interesting is like the guy who runs it doesn't give a fuck about that coaching company because he's so good at doing it. He makes a shitload of money.
Right? Right.
So literally his program is like, no, I have it broken down how I do it. Like, and the big selling point of that program is that you get access to all the contracts, right. It's millions of dollars worth of like legal paperwork.
Right? Right.
So it's like, that's the value that. The value. It's really clear, very tangible value. Hey, you want to learn how to land flip? This is how you do it without getting fucked over. This is how you bypass the red tape and they even have it done for you elements. It's almost like a biz op. So, like, if you, you join their program, you find the land, you can just Hand it off to their team, they'll do the whole thing and pay you 10%.
Right, right.
And those deals are worth a couple hundred thousand dollars profit.
Yeah, yeah.
Right. Up to a couple million dollars profit if you do it correctly. And so, man, you do one or two deals and you paid for it five times, you know, so, like, those types of offers, like that biz Opy, that's like a combo biz op coaching type thing. That's what's crushing it right now. Like, teaching some dude how to use a Facebook group. I don't know if it's the move right now.
Do you think, like, those. The increasing cost of leads, do you think that that is representative of less people are interested versus less people are using social media in a traditional sense? Like, I feel like, you know, a big part of my job here and elsewhere is being kind of on the pulse of what's happening with social media. And it's very strange time. Less and less people are using Facebook as they traditionally did. I think that more people are, like, they log in and they have a quick look, but they're not invested in it. And, like, I noticed that from the traction that I get in the groups that I sort of am involved in. Like the group for my podcast, the discussion group there, if I post something and, like, my posting habits haven't really changed. There's 9,000 people in the group, and about 1,200 people will see it. And it used to be that you're the guy.
Yeah.
Like, that's. That's. It's my group. It used to be that I would get at least half the group would see it.
Yeah.
And a lot more interaction with the post, and they just don't get that anymore. So, like, that kind of shows me that less and less people are spending scrolling time on Facebook.
Yeah.
And I think now it's destroying everyone. Yeah. Well, TikTok, that's it. Right. And Tik Tok. You know, the way you advertise on Tik Tok is really different to how you would incred.
They have figured it out, man. Like. Like, the TikTok advertising we did for the challenge read at seventh level was so effective.
Yeah.
So effective.
Yeah.
What did that look like?
I'd have to get Marco on here, but they sort of ran me down the numbers, and it was like, jesus, man. Like, the minimal amount of money we spent on TikTok was extremely effective.
Yeah.
Uh, I wouldn't do it for, like, a book call funnel, but it's great for volume. So if you Know, like, where to go, which kind of goes back to, like, you know, if like a lot of the companies that we're talking about, like the coaching companies that are dying, which is why our advertising is getting cheaper. Because we're now the category. We're now the category king.
Right.
Like, in terms of sales training, obviously Cardone's massive, but I think we might do more than him when it comes to the pure training of salespeople.
Okay.
Obviously Cardone has a fucking empire and a jet, makes a shitload of money, but most of it's real estate.
Right.
When it comes to pure sales training, I don't think you'd be doing much more than us.
Okay. Right.
And not many people are right. In terms of the B2C. Like, you got Sandler doing $450 million a year, but it's all B2B.
Okay, right.
They have like all the contracts.
Right.
But I'm coming for you, Sandler.
Right.
So. So we're like, we're the category killers now. So now we like absorb old knowing, like, where are the guys? Right. So really that, that should make everything a bit more expensive, but for some reason it's making everything cheaper.
Yeah.
And so, but we're very diversified. So we have like a couple of different strategies on Facebook. We have a couple of different strategies on Instagram. We have a good email strategy now and we have a good TikTok strategy. And then we have. For all those, we have like paid media is in like the conversion traffic. And then for all those, we also have good content strategies. So, like, it's a big melting pot. The next thing we got to do is YouTube and Google Ads. So Google Ads start next month, I think, and then YouTube will start probably shortly after that. And then from there, then, then we're going to go. I want to go into like, more traditional media. Right. Like, we'll do radio and we'll do all that kind of. Yeah, give a try. But, you know.
So do you think, though, like, you're finding success there while others are finding it more and more difficult?
Yeah, but there are a lot of them are leveraged off one. One thing.
Yeah. Okay. Right.
Like, there's a lot of people that are really leveraged of just paid advertising on Facebook. Yeah, I think if that's all you're doing, you're probably in a year.
Yeah. Right.
But if it's part of what you do, fantastic.
Yeah.
You know, if all you're doing is a Facebook group, you're probably.
Yeah, well. And just demographic wise, like, there's so many like younger kids that they're not on Facebook. No, like not, not only just aren't on there, but actually laugh in your face when you say, oh, it's on Facebook. And they're like, I'm not getting Facebook.
Yeah.
So like that is.
Facebook is for like 30 and up.
Yeah.
That's wild to me. Like that, that kind of blows my mind. And I only realized that about 18 months ago when our new neighbor moved in and she's like 16 and made a joke of like, of Facebook. Like, like I was, I was looking at something. Oh like you can look it up on Facebook. And she's like laughed in my face. It was like, I'm not getting.
You're an old man and a fool.
Yeah.
It's like, if it's not on TikTok, I'm not interested. And I was like, oh my God. Like I didn't realize that was a thing. And there's more and more and more of them. And Instagram is still the bed at every instance that it can. But even TikTok has changed in the last few weeks or months in that now that they take 10 minute videos now there's a lot of what you see like repurposed YouTube content going into TikTok and that's going to change the way people use TikTok as well. Like it, you know, I'm sure that TikTok is doing that to try and bring in people like you and I who can handle watching five minutes of the same thing.
You know what I mean?
Like, because now they're like, you know, it's not just for kids. They're trying to expand that out and take over the whole market.
Yeah. They want everyone's computers that are nearby.
It's madness. It's so insidious. And so like I've deleted TikTok off my phone like four or five times.
Have you have.
I've tried to.
You have to fucking factory reset that phone, I think to get rid of TikTok, man.
So like, and I just keep coming back because it's work and you need it and it's someone. What it always is, is every time I've deleted it in the past, someone will take text me, you have a funny tick tock or something, you know.
And like I watch it, but I gotta watch it.
Yeah.
I watch it through the browser and then I'm like, man, tick tock's funny.
Yeah.
Like I would like to see more of that. I'd like to follow that person.
Yeah. I'm Probably a weird one where I almost never scroll on any social media. The only thing that I scroll on is YouTube.
Yeah.
It's the only thing I watch. I, I Never look at TikTok, I never look at Instagram, I almost never look at Facebook. The only thing I look at in Facebook is the closing code group the post that I do to see what kind of traction they get so I can track stuff and the post in the sales revolution, that's it. I have no interest. But I think it's because to me they're no longer social media, it's work media.
Yeah.
So like I don't like, that's why I'm going to go out and buy an Apple Watch. I just don't want to have that shit on me. I don't want to get notifications, locations, I don't want to get, you know, so like on the weekend half the time I leave my phone at home or snap it into an arrange.
Yeah.
Like I did this week.
But the Apple Watch, so like it's a funny one. We were just having this conversation. I have the new Apple Watch. No big deal. I pre ordered it. I was one of the first people in Australia, one of the last in the world. But. And like I've always been an Apple or not always for the last three or four years. But I stopped wearing it when we had Axel, like my youngest son, because he kept pushing the buttons. I deleted a couple of like calendar events. I was like, okay, I have to stop. But now he's old enough I could wear it again. But for that like disconnect. A lot of people who, who know how much I hate like being able having people contact me all the time. Well like why would you get an Apple Watch now more people can contact you. I'm like, aha. Only people with my real phone number can contact me.
Yeah.
That's like four of you.
Yeah.
Like so I can leave my phone at home. I, I can go out with my kids. People who really need to contact me can, I can contact people if I need to. I can pay for stuff. I can do all that. But I'm kind of offline while maintaining.
Yeah.
And if something happens you can call.
Yeah.
And call me and go, hey, dude, car broke down. Fucking.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah. Like, you know the automatic thing on your boot isn't working.
It's always. But so like I say Facebook is weird in that it's an older generation. TikTok is the newest thing. Like the newest generation, the youngest kids. Instagram is an Middle Instagram's freaking out. Instagram doesn't know what it is. But now there's all these other social medias popping up. And I wonder, like, how Pinterest is.
Becoming like, Pinterest has hired Accenture, Accenture's largest consulting firm on the planet. Probably top 10 companies in the world. Made $89 billion profit last year.
Right.
So not bad. It's good work if you can.
Yeah.
I mean, I want to flick a bill my way. They can.
Yeah.
But yeah, like, Accenture is now doing their sales. Accenture is essentially the largest done for you sales agency on the planet.
Okay.
Uh, they're a consultancy firm. It's like. It's like if sales sniper scaled up 150 million times.
Okay, Right.
Like, what they do is they come into a business. Yeah, they do Hundreds of billions of dollars.
Okay, right.
In revenue every year. Um, they come in just.
I wonder what their podcast is.
Like, that's probably amazing. They come in and they go, all right, cool. Hey, man, we'll do. We'll come in and consult. All these things are broken. They're like, oh, man, you should definitely fill. Fix that. Or we can just do it for you.
Yeah.
And then that's what they do. So then what they do is they hire people for like 100k a year, charge them out at 180. Done. But that business is happy because they don't have to do any recruitment, nothing. They just pay the bill and it's done. Right. So they do that for, like, Pinterest and tons and tons of companies.
Right.
They act as a salesforce. Half of them in the fucking Philippines.
Right?
So, yeah, so, like, Pinterest is getting really big.
Well.
And, like, since your good friend Andrew Tate got. Got kicked off of everything, he's gone to Rumble, and they saw, like, a ridiculous increase in traffic.
Well, Russell Brand's on Rumble as well. Because if you say anything like, I think the guidelines, for example, just like for Covid. Guidelines, right. On YouTube.
Yeah.
You can't say anything that doesn't. That goes against your local government authority or the WHO when it comes to transmission, treatment, prevention, vaccination, and one other thing.
Right?
So if you say anything against those guidelines, the WHO which is funded by the US Government.
Right.
Or your local government authority, you're automatically stricken off.
Yeah.
Right. So you can't talk about it on YouTube.
Right.
So there's a lot of stuff you can't talk about. So. So, like, Russell Brand went on to Rumble, and then he talks about what he's posted On Rumble on thing. And apparently Rumble is a wild, wild west. You can say anything you want.
Yeah.
And so I'm all for.
So that started like that and people think of those platforms being like, oh, well, that's where the right wing people go. But the thing is those right wing people, whoever they are.
Right.
Whether they are Russell Brand is far from right. Exactly right. But whoever goes there interested in that content also consumes other stuff.
Yeah.
And so like they're there, you know, they're, they go there to see that and they see something else and they might see your ad while you're there. So now you've got to deal with that platform. And then Peter McKinnon posted on.
What's that new Instagram one.
Yeah, Vero.
Right.
Which is an old company, they've been around for ages but no one like really picked it up.
It's really for photographs, right?
Yeah, well, it's actually sort of anything but. It's the, it's kind of like Instagram before they brought in like suggested feed. Right. So it's like you have to follow people.
Right.
And so if you don't follow them, you don't see them. But when Peter McKinnon posted a YouTube video saying like I'm going over to this, he crashed the site because so many people signed up for it. I'm one of them.
Right.
I just follow the trends. I just do what Daddy Elon tells me to say.
Right.
So, but, but that's my Nomad backpack.
And my test light. I'm good to go.
But so we're seeing this sort of like decentralization now. Of course those platforms, platforms rumble, Vero, they're not, they're not Facebook, they're not Instagram, they're not Tick Tock. But every like little dilution sort of steals from those things.
But also there, there are early adapters that ended up being category kings.
Exactly.
So like, you know, Pinterest is the real deal that I've heard. Like we're not using it, but like we're going to start looking into it because like I've been told that like the lead quality on Pinterest is phenomenal.
Right.
You know, and it's very similar to Google. That's sort of like, I think it's a little bit of similar to like Google. Like it's a search engine.
Well, it's a research platform really, isn't it? Yeah, just like I'm going to find out stuff, right. Like I'm designing something and I want inspiration. Isn't that I've never used Pinterest.
I would have. No. I just thought it was for ladies who wanted to redesign their house.
That's what I thought.
More than that now, really. I think it's more. But, you know, I'd see interesting Andrew Tate.
Right?
Really interesting. Because I think he might be the most cleverest social media a person ever.
There's a good chance.
Yeah.
And. And I. And I think I have. I. I think he's a horrible person. From some of the things that I've seen of him in the analytics in Romania. And there's some questioning. Is he like the new Jeffrey Epstein? But who knows? Who knows? Because you either. The only. I was explaining to my wife the other day because I watched the Piers Morgan interview where he ruined Piers Morgan.
Yeah.
Like, I have not seen Piers Morgan. I mean, I've seen him be destroyed by, like, you know, people, but, like, man, you know, he got steamrolled. Like, that was incredible. That was like a alpha male coming in and just cucking someone.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, it was incredible.
Yeah.
And I'm not an Andrew Tate fan, but I was like, man, that dude is smart.
Yeah, yeah.
And. And unrelenting in his confidence.
Yeah, yeah.
I would not want to debate him.
Yeah.
Even on something. I knew I was right. The sky is blue. Well, I'll tell you why the sky is purple. Kind of reminds me of the Rocky Drew Brownie. But like, despite that, like, I mean, he, he, like, he must have made that much money that quick.
How much jerking he's worth?
Ah, if you were tens of millions, not hundreds, I don't know. He buys a lot of Bugattis.
Yeah.
So definitely, like up upper tens. Maybe. Maybe less than 100. I. I would say like 78.
He made it real quick, too.
Yeah.
Like, I've never seen someone come into prominence so unexpectedly and quickly. It was like in six months, he went from no. 1 to the being online.
Yeah.
And how. I don't know how we can break it down if you'd like. Yeah, but like, that, that, that we.
Should explain it like, that virality of.
The content strategy is clever. So you had a Hustle University. Right, for those.
Yeah.
I don't know, it was like 100 bucks a month or something.
I have no idea what it costs.
Yeah, it's cheap. I know it's cheap.
Right.
And it's how to make money online. And how you make money online is by selling Hustle University. So it's not an mlm, it's an affiliate program.
Right.
I'm sure there's other stuff in there. There has to be. Right. It can't be just like, cut up these clips.
But I mean, the other strategy was cut up clips of Andrew Tate and.
They provide you all the raw footage.
And, and, and just post the out of it on social media and let Andrew do his thing.
Yeah, right.
And then have your affiliate link and that's how you make money online. And, you know, 100 people bought it, 100 people start doing it. And then those hundred people. 10, 10, 110, 10, 10, 10, 10, ten. It's literally like an exponential growth on social media through the utilization of everybody else's social media. And the most clever thing about that is it's now impossible to stop.
They can't.
So you can block him on there. It doesn't make a difference.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like Hydra.
Yeah.
The moment you cut off one head, eight more will appear.
Well, what happened on my Tick Tock feed and I don't know. So, like, he was blowing up my Tick Tock feed and. And a lot of the things wasn't.
No.
So, like, his content was amazing. It was just his face. Probably one in four videos was him. And I even tried to avoid that at one point. I was like. Because I like to. With the algorithm, like, you know, just see what I can make it show me.
Yeah.
And I would. As soon as I saw him, I'd, like, nah, like, go on. And then when he, like, was banned, suddenly his brother started being all up in my feed and it was like. So I'm curious how much that was a strategy from them versus, like, the algorithm realized that. I didn't want to see that. Like, whether that was just showing to me. I'm curious if that happened to anyone else, because they do a podcast, like, together. Right. It's them talking that people cut up the things from. And then suddenly it's. I think it's Tristan's his name or something. Suddenly it's all him in my feed. I was like, man, these guys have figured out, like, how to get it out there. And I think, you know, exactly as you say. Like, I don't really have an opinion on him. I think that he says some very reasonable things in a ridiculous way, and I think he said some ridiculous things in an even more ridiculous way. But don't we all?
Yeah.
So, like, I don't really have an opinion on him one way or another.
Well, the thing is, you only see either an unreasonably positive view of him or an unreasonably negative.
Yeah.
So you'll see cut up content which is used in order to sell a thing that is to do with him. Or you'll see cut up content by people who hate him. You won't see anything in between. I've only ever seen him say because I haven't looked into much, somewhat reasonable things. I've heard of him saying ridiculous things but never seen it because I've never gone down the rabbit hole of caring about his content.
Yeah.
I just think him as a person is extraordinarily interesting.
Yeah.
But there's a very particular type of young man who thinks he's a demigod.
Yeah.
Well, and that is, I mean not that it's our place to give a about that, but that is kind of the issue with it in that like he says a lot of things to be outrageous and get the likes and the views and that. And an adult like you and I can go like there's a message in there that he's trying to convey and he's chosen to use outrageous.
Yeah.
Because he knows that'll get traction and like. But I see what he's trying to say, but I think there's a bunch of 18 year olds that are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't say whatever, but from a business.
You that sent me that thing on Goggins where it's like my 8 year old kid just runs around saying who's gonna carry the boats? It was like, it was obviously a but very funny like review of his book or something. And it was like my, my, my fucking 12 year old son does nothing but chin ups and scream who's. Who's gonna carry the boats?
That.
And then, and then he goes and he asked my wife, his mother, did I cry when I was born? And she said, yes, of course you did. And he said. And they went back and did more chin ups in his room. It was one of those Amazon reviews. I'll send it to you. It was great.
I feel like I might have seen it.
Yeah.
Booz will probably cut this out. He loves the Goggins.
He loves Go. You cut the. This out. Was it Stay Hard.
Stay Hard.
Yeah, yeah.
That's Viagra's one too, right?
I think it is. No, it's Get Hard.
Get Hard. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That wouldn't make sense for the Stay Hard. That'd be a real problem. Four hours, I heard.
Yeah, but so all those, you know, social medias that are now expanding, do you think that that is anything to do with what's going on with, like, cost of leads and stuff.
I think so, but I just think it's. I think it's like, overall, like, you need to have. I don't think you can invest too heavily in any one platform.
Yeah, for sure.
And, like, you know, if. If you do, you get stuck in a position where, like, you're like, there are, like, some coaching programs that just teach. Hey, like, this is how you optimize a Facebook group. Like, what are they going to do in 18 months when Facebook groups are garbage? Because that's eventually what's going to. They'll just be garbage because everyone's like, oh, you join a Facebook group and it's fucking pitch fest.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And no one's on Facebook anyway.
Yeah.
There's enough people in the, like, you can't.
Sure.
Their profiles.
Yeah.
Well, did you listen to Zuckerberg on Rogan?
No.
Yeah, man. It's. It was interesting. Like, he. He had a lot to say. It's definitely worth a listen.
Yeah.
Right.
About. Like, I. I'm aware that we're spending a lot of money, and I'm aware that, like, you're not seeing an output right now, but you're gonna, like, is basically what he was saying, that I'm.
Smarter than almost all of you.
Yeah.
Trust me, it would be fun.
Yeah.
Like, and they're making infrastructure. Like, they're developing hardware now.
Right.
That they've never done in the past. So they're like, we've got to figure that out. They're like the. Yeah, they're.
Yeah, the Oculus.
Yeah. So, like, they're figuring that out. And he's like, that costs money. But we're going to be. We're going to have the best one when it comes out, and everyone's going to buy it. So it was like, oh, what is happening with Facebook? Like, that's the question.
Well, the metaverse, I mean, to me seems stupid now, but in 20 years, it's probably all there'll be.
Yeah.
You know, web three and all that kind of bullshit.
Terrifying.
All that. All that jazz.
But.
Yeah.
So the other thing that's happening in the coaching industry is, like, the consolidation of agencies. So, like, agencies and done for use, I think, are really going to kill coaching companies, but most agencies will die in the process.
Okay.
Because.
Explain that.
Well, the coaching companies service the agencies service the coaching companies.
So you're talking marketing agencies, sales agencies.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, like, there's a consolidation that's happening. Like, sales are becoming harder, leads are becoming harder to get the way in which coaches run businesses is to cash drain, which I don't have a problem with. I think like, you know, you look at people, they run a business for three or four years, like six. So Sam Ovens, right? Sam Oven's one of the most successful coaches. I'd love to get him on the podcast. Like he's a kiwi guy. He got his coaching business up to like say 30 million a year, I think it was, right?
What does he coach people to do?
Make money online, Become a coach. He's a coach that coaches coaches. Okay, Coach. He was the first. He was the guy, he was the one.
Like you'll notice my constant question.
I know, dude, I don't fucking know.
What do they teach?
I don't because I know. Like we teach. Jeremy teaches sales training to salespeople. I get it. I see the output, I see the course, I see people get better. I watch the calls, I edit the shit. I can see people improve over time. I see it, it's a real product, it's a real thing. But then when people like I have an online coaching program, I train coaches, I'm like, but to do what? I don't get it very often.
The thing that's really interesting is when you go to like clickfunnels, right? There's not many people that were like seventh level was one of the only companies to receive a high level award that goes directly to the consumer. Most of them go to the coach or the person who then on sales, right? So it's like, you know, like for example, Andrew Gosin who runs the 4% club, they're a fitness program. Phenomenal. I would say he's probably the only one there that got a good award that is in fitness who's not a fitness business coach, okay. He, they, they made their $10 million direct to fucking doing the thing. Doing the thing, right? Fucking they make 110 sales a week. Fucking well done. Ag and Ap, you guys are killers, right? I, I trained Ap how to sell. He's a phenomenal salesperson. They still use my script today. Perfect, right? Some of their guys are in inner circle, right. So but most of them like are, are selling services to the people who are providing it to customers. And, and, and a lot of that's not being translated into success with the people who are going to the customer. And then a lot of them are being told, well you have a shit mindset. So there's a real correction that's happening which is like, well that's unacceptable. I was Listening to your podcast the other day about that guy that went off in the live.
Oh, yeah, right.
And he was like, yeah, you're not delivering.
Yeah, the.
You know, and I think he was talking about, like 500 bucks or something. I don't know what the fucking number was.
It was. It was a $15,000 program that someone put a dog through, and the dog came back identical. Maybe actually was.
But. But that's the coaching industry.
Yeah. Right.
Like, that is. You know, and so what I'm seeing now is a consolidation. Like, Sam Ovens is very good at what he does. He's a proven entity. He knows what he's talking about and he's smart.
Right.
So he had a $30 million a year business or whatever the fuck it was, scaled it back to around 6 million and brought in more money, personally.
Wow.
So he was like, well, this man, like, he got it up to 30 million. It was no profit. Let's build the biggest thing. And like, the. The trap is like, do we become Tony Robbins? And it's like, but. But. Are you Tony Robbins?
Yeah. Right.
You know, it's like, you know, like, I believe that Jeremy has every.
He has that capacity.
He can be like the guy in the world. Yeah, he has that capacity. He's that good. He's fucking good on stage. And that. You really need to be excellent on stage.
Right.
Like, that's not me. I, like, you know, it's just not me. Right. So. But Sam scaled it down and they made it profitable. Really, really profitable. And it's like, wow, that's a really, like. That's the way to run it. So now he has his coaching business. No advertising, but everybody knows him. You know, the. You probably would have seen people rip off his ads when he. He did an ad years ago that, like, I don't have five Lamborghinis. I don't have this. I don't have this. I don't have this. I don't have this. I don't have this. But what I do have is this. And then he, like, lists a bunch of awesome.
Right, Right.
And, like, that was his ad. Like, he caught. And then everybody copied it.
Right, Right.
So for ages, you saw a fitness coach.
We have to film an ad after this. We should.
Fantastic.
We should have a golf it.
Yeah. What I do have is a Facebook group. And you can join it if you like. Totally free.
Tell us about that Facebook group. There's probably a link in the description.
There we go. We did it.
Yay, Marco. You're welcome. But, yeah, so like there's just, I think like all the, all the big guys, the ones who are actually really delivering results and have diversified and I've spent a bit of money in not just like raiding the cash and there's no problem with rating the cash. But like at some stage like that we'll catch up with you. Especially if you're running like a cash based accounting. If you're running cash based accounting and rating the cash, a little bit scary.
Explain what that is. Elaborate on that.
So like, if you're on a cash. So like for example, at seventh level, most of our clients. Painful, right? Or they do a to pay. So if I, if it's $15,000 for six months of training or whatever it is, right? Like, oh, this is, I'm just gonna use 18 because it's three equal increments, right? That's like, that's $3,000 a month that I'm getting. But if they pay 18 up front, then I get all that cash up front. So now I have all this cash right?
Now you have to sit on that until that's been delivered.
Yeah, you do. But what can happen is that people look at it and they go, oh Look, I made $700,000 profit this month because it's, they're running on a cash basis. Like yeah, you did, you did. You have $700,000 profit. However, if you're on an accruals based model, what you'll do is you'll have the cash equity. So the cash asset will go up and then what you'll have is you'll have the, the liability go up the same amount and then you'll have earned revenue which is in. So which is in your owner's equity, which is like on this side of your balance sheet, right? So you got asset liability, equities, right? So the asset goes up 18 grand, the liability goes up 18 grand. Then from there, at month, at the end of month one, that liability goes down by 3,000, that cash goes down by 3,000. So the cash stays there and then that goes over and your earned revenue and your equities account goes up by $3,000. And then every month that goes down 3. Up 3, down 3, up 3, down 3. So it's called a balance sheet. Has to always balance, right? So that is how you could. And then if you're doing it that way, then like however much cash you bring in is irrelevant. But it's how much earned revenue you have versus versus expenses. And your expenses are on accruals as well, right? Then you can go, oh, sweet. I made 200,000 profit this month knowing that you have the cash to look forward because it's all planned for, and then you could divvy out half of that and you're fine because, like, that's got everything taken into account over a long period of time. So, like, you know, but a lot of businesses start out on cash, and then they sort of have to transition to accruals. Now, the reason why that's tough is because, like, if you have a sales team that's being paid as the cash comes in and you switch to accruals, you can't do that anymore.
And so, well, you have to start paying the sales team in the same way.
Right.
You do.
And that's gonna piss them right off.
Yes and no. I suppose it depends on how they look at it.
Okay.
If you did the transition properly, you can definitely turn into a positive because, like, what's the best part about being a salesperson is you have an uncapped income that's based on your skill level. The worst is the volatility. So if. If you get paid in full, which, like, at seventh level we do, then, like, you're guaranteed that to become earned revenue. So you're in. You would actually increase your monthly commissions every month, and you could look forward six months as to what you're going to get paid. And you can go on holiday and still get paid. So, like, it takes away the burden of having to, like, budget and have huge cash months and then have nothing and huge, you know, I mean, so it actually turns you into, like, a more stable salesperson because you're not desperate.
You're a little bit more of a farmer than a hunter at that point.
Right.
Like, you. Yeah, you're gonna eat every week.
Yeah.
And so, like, you can go, hey, sweet, man. Like, I'm gonna take the wife. I'm gonna go away for a month and still make 30 grand. Perfect, man.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? So, like, it actually, like, you'd have a cut. You'd have, like a month of down.
Yeah.
And then after that, you'd be back to normal, and it would just build, build, build, build, build, build, build. And it's still in, like, whether you got a payment planner or paid in full, it wouldn't make a difference to you. But if you get it paid in full, it's guaranteed to turn into it, you know, so, like, there's positives and negatives, and I think it's really how it's sort of sold to the salesperson. And, and you know, just kind of explaining to them, well that you're going to have like a two month period where you'll make slightly less than usual. However, you know, over the next six months, you, you'll.
Yeah, more like you've got to have. Compound you've got to have that conversation. Do you find that a tricky one to have with like the sales reps here? Like when that if you're making that change. I don't know if you've ever had to have that conversation where it's like.
No, I've never done it, but it like, you know, it's a good idea, you know, and it was like when I was speaking to, when I was in New York, I was speaking to Sirhan, I spoke to their whole team sort of like. And I was like, that's a proper businessman.
Yeah.
Like it's. I was like, oh, wow, these dudes have got it pretty, pretty iron tight. And you know, I had a really interesting chat with Ryan. I don't know if I mentioned this or I just mentioned it to you, but I was like, hey man, like, what do you want to do? You can ipo. You gonna do this? It's just like, you know, because like we've bandied around the words like IPO and fucking and trades and that kind of stuff.
He's like, oh, yeah, we did talk about this. It was on podcast.
Yeah. He's like, never met a happy CEO, public company.
Yeah.
And I was like, that's interesting. But then just kind of talking to like their CFO, talking to their VPs and the President and stuff like that and should have gone like, oh, this is a, like a much more corporate but probably more effective structure, which is why, you know, like, Ryan is a unicorn of a human. Like, I'm not Ryan. That dude is an animal. He's extraordinarily talented on camera, but he's an incredibly talented at what he does. Like, he's world class at what he does individually, but. But he can convey that in a super charismatic way. You know what I mean? So he's very similar to Jeremy.
Yeah.
Like he's as good at real estate as Jeremy is at sales.
Right.
You know?
Yeah.
And then from there. But it's really interesting because he still is like the top producer in the company.
Yeah.
You know, that's the head of the snake though, right? Like, because people want to deal with him. No doubt. You go to that agency, you want Ryan.
Yeah.
Like, so there's more demand for him. I'm sure he's better, I'm sure. But you want him.
Yeah.
So what Ryan does is like he gets the buildings and then gets his agents to sell them, you know, so he'll have to chat with the developers. When I was there actually in their sales room, they had one of those models. Yeah, it was so cool, man. Like they had you put out the drawers and the drawer was the top down view of like the penthouse.
Wow.
It's sick. That's cool. Jesus. They're like, yeah, this cost like 300 grand.
Yeah, I was gonna say that's still a job, right? People still making those things.
Yeah, dude, it was so accurate and you could like look in and then they had this giant TV. Like, dude, it was giant. It was a 150 inches. It was huge. Like, I've got a 90 inch TV. Little thin dick. Um, but yeah, it was super, super interesting going there and kind of chatting to them and, you know, seeing kind of how they run stuff and how they pay their internal team and they just told me whatever I wanted. We work with them for two and a half years.
Yeah.
We have a good relationship with them.
Yeah.
And so it was just, it was really interesting to see. But like Ryan will start just decapitating his competition, especially with what he's got coming up. I cannot say what he's got coming up. But it's. Yeah, he's gonna murder. He's gonna murder everybody.
So then let me.
Goodbye, Tom Ferry. Hi, Tom Ferry. If you're watching, you're sorry buddy.
Circle back around. So we. I derailed you to talk about accruals versus cash accounting. Yeah, we're talking about like if coaches are bringing in and they're. They're pulling the cash, they may be in for a shock.
Yeah. Because I think like they just, they can't survive three down months.
Right.
You know, it's mistakes that I've made in the past. You know what I mean? Like, well, because.
And, and that's because the overheads, the cost are there whether the, whether you can sales or not. Because you have to service the people that you've already sold.
Yeah.
So the trick is with coaching is like to correctly staff. It's really tough. I think that's with any business is to correctly staff the business, which is like there's a couple books like on Amazon and Tesla and how they've done it. And it's really clever. And like the difference between sort of like people who tell versus people that do and how you manage that structure and how. I read. We read one and I Was like, oh, oh, I did everything wrong. I was like, oh, I can see why that happened.
Yeah.
I mean, like, just like, oh, this is super interesting because, like, those companies have scaled very fast, very aggressively, but very well. You know, like, I mean, Amazon wasn't around.
Yeah.
That long ago. I mean, like, it's. Tesla wasn't long ago.
I think Amazon's like the biggest employer of Americans.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah.
You know, like Apple. I mean, Apple's the biggest company ever to exist.
Madness.
You know, like trillions of dollars.
Yeah.
It's crazy. And like, these companies weren't around that long ago.
Yeah.
Like, they're bigger than insurance companies.
Yeah.
Which is staggering because insurance companies, they're bigger than banks. They're bigger than banks.
Madness.
And banks have been around for hundreds of years.
I wonder, like, with the, like, the tech refresh stuff, do you. Do you feel in opposition to that lately that the idea. Like he says, the day I just changed my iPhone over to the latest one. But do you think that there's some resistance coming against that in that, you know, you've got to get the latest one? Because I feel like I have.
I feel no need to get any of it.
Yeah.
So, like, I no longer get excited when I get a new phone. I see it as an annoyance.
Yeah.
But, like, that was interesting with the iPhone 14. It's really nothing much better than the 13. Like, they kind of hit the limit of.
But it's 14.
Exactly. But like, say, like my computer, when I got it, it was. That's the Mac daddy. And we were waiting. People who edit video were waiting for the M1 what upgrade. Whatever it was going to be. And that M1 Max, that changed everything. But then they bring out that ultra in the studio thing and you look at. A lot of the reviewers are like, I can't hit the limit of this. Like, I, like, like a lot of the sort of tech space reviewers of those ultras with the. You know, it's. It's basically two of my computer bolted together in. In that Mac studio. They're like, I can't use this. Like, I cannot max it out. I. So what's the point? And so I feel like a lot of that stuff is kind of hitting a bit of a.
And it's like, what do you need? 52k?
Yeah.
Like, what do you need?
Yeah, well.
And so, like, even. But like, that M1 max can edit. I think it's seven streams of 8K, so.
Seven streams?
Yeah.
Simultaneously. Like. And I can max it out. Like, once you start Putting like graphic layers and stuff on it. You can slow it down, you can bog it down. But those like, you know, not at like double the cost. Do I need to upgrade that? And I feel like Apple are kind of realizing that I think in a lot of their stuff and they're like there's kind of not that far to go in the general user space.
Well, it's. Form factor has to change.
Yeah, that's it.
That's what has to change. Form factor.
So make a different color.
I mean if they did that, bro, why don't they just have a glass that you can just decide the color.
That might be next? Like a chameleon. All right, we're descending into madness. Wrap us up. I think that interesting topic.
Oh, there's no discernible wrap up. You guys like this kind of content?
Well, let's do it. No, but I think leads are getting more expensive, Sales are getting harder to do.
Yeah.
Things are changing. Agencies are joining together, taking over businesses. What do you think is the future of that? Like what happens in the next six months in that space?
I see like a ton of coaches going down. Like the guys who are doing less than 200k a month. I think you're going down.
Yeah.
Right, I see.
And what can they do to stop that?
I don't know.
Just probably fucking pack it in.
Give up now. Yeah.
No, but like it's just like if I have a look at sales coaching, which is a huge tam on it.
Right.
Like enormous. Like there's plenty of room for everybody. But like we're eating them and it's like only going to get worse for them for the time being because seventh level is so diversified and like we're just getting like, it's effortless growth. It's really bizarre. It's a, it's a phenomenal product. And I think that's really what it comes down to. I think if you don't have a great world class offer, you are. And I don't see many of those. I just don't. An offer that has legs, you know, and if. And you have to constantly mold and manipulate that offer. Like we have a product development cycle at seventh where we like we release a new product every four months. Like that's hard.
Yeah.
You know, and then we update our products every year we do a complete revamp. Like 40% of the content is different.
Wow.
You know, like we're adding to it. Like we're flying out all of our top students and a top student for like our top 10 industries. We're flying them all out to Vegas, right? So we can film all new content with the guys making seven figures a year doing that thing. No Q and A's. The whole, like, good luck. Everybody out there competing with that.
Yeah.
Like, hey, no. Oh, you want a testimonial? Sweet. Here's the guy in your exact industry, selling your exact thing, who makes a million dollars a year, who came from making $30,000 a year, did it in 12 months. And he's also doing two role plays a week.
Yeah.
So not just a testimonial saying how much he's killing it.
He's gonna teach you the step by step method. Like we have Joseph Roeberry. Step by step. This is how you approach a door. This is what you do. This is what you wear. This is what you say. This is how you deflect. Like, this is how you don't burn out. This is. You know, that guy works 25 hours a week, makes 100 grand a month doorknock for solar. You know, like, he's a world class dude. And because there's all these little tweaks for each industry. Right. But that they're all using the same methodology. Like we have. You know, we had a testimonial from a guy called Caden. Great dude, sells insurance. He's in the bones of his ass. Like literally, man. Bones of his ass. Had to borrow the money to get into inner circle. Now he makes 50 grand a month.
Nice.
You know, and like he was in huge credit card debt, family stresses, little kids, the whole box and dice. And he's just like, man, like learned it, applied it and just crushes it. So we're gonna get him. So now we have him doing insurance specific calls, you know, for our students. Because he's like, hey, this works. Like, I want these guys to be successful in this industry. So he'll, he's just going in and helping us out.
Awesome.
Yeah, good luck. Yeah, good luck.
All right, guys, that's it. If you're an audio only listener, thanks for your time. I suppose. Yeah, if you're on the YouTube, make sure you give us a, like a comment, all that kind of stuff. Share it around. Just send to someone else.
Go.
Hey, these two about a bunch of stuff. Check it out.
If you know anyone super famous that has a huge following, send it to them. Ask them just to.
Yeah, see if they want to.
Come on.
Yeah, anyone?
Anyone.
All right, goodbye.
Put that coffee down.
