Why Most Sales Teams Are Failing (And How To Succeed)
Matt Ryder and Jimmy discuss why sales teams struggle with high ticket deals. They cover lead generation problems, commission structures that backfire, and how branding actually moves deals forward instead of pure hustle.
Sales is something basically anyone could be really good at.
Yeah, you just have to practice and.
You have to be a little bit disciplined in your practice and not just chase any objects. One of the things that I hate is when, like, reps just go and buy new courses all the time. It's like, guys, you just don't need to do that.
Top performers are kind of on their own island. Most top performers don't care about.
If you have a look at the curve on sales in any company, I'm talking like from Microsoft down to a high ticket, right? That top dude is making 20% of all the sales. Like, Steph Curry scores a lot of points. You know, he gets the opportunities, he makes the opportunities, and he. He puts the ball in the hole. Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Coffee is for Closers. So we have a. We have a very special person here. We have a new dad. Well, fourth. A fourth time new dad.
Yeah, exactly. Almost to my starting five.
Yeah. Yeah, you're. You're so from Utah.
Yeah, exactly.
We, we.
We may not. We may not be lds, but we're popping them out Utah style.
Exactly, man. Right. You can't let your neighbor who's lds, you know, have a starting five and you're over there with a starting four. Right. Exactly. Unless you got.
I like to win.
Yeah, that's funny, man. Some of those guys got, like, starting 11, right?
Yeah, not as often anymore. Um, it's expensive. It is expensive. Yeah, it is expensive. So I, I think four's a pretty common number here, though.
Yeah, two's good for me, man. I'm good, you know, but. Alrighty. So, you know, had a little bit of a break. I don't know if it interrupted the posting schedule. I think we still got some out, but, you know, congratulations. So baby's happy, healthy, all like, all that, like, all that kind of good stuff.
Baby's happy, healthy. The rest of the family is happy, healthy. It was the fourth one, was our. Our smoothest birth by far.
And so, yeah, everything seems to have physically recovered well. So well done to you, sir.
It was a lot of tough work for me, you know, a lot of tough work for me. Being that emotional support, I had to stay up all night.
You know what? And when you tell her, she won't be appreciative, right? No, she just.
How dare she labor all night. We had the baby at like 5am.
Mate, you couldn't even sleep until six.
Yeah, exactly.
Tell you what, man, you're a grinder.
Just grinding. I just Grinding. I got, I, I worked three days in that time.
Oh my God. That. And you tell the women folk and they just don't understand. You know, I had a look at my YouTube analytics. It's 98.1% men.
I wonder why.
I know. So for the lady that's watching out there. Hi Mom. Right?
That's both of our moms.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she's been watching for a while. Before you run. All right, well, okay. Super valuable content as always. All right, so today we're going to be talking about, I guess we're going to be talking about, you know, what we're doing. Sniper insurance. You know, I'll probably give some updates on what I've been doing over at the, you know, over my team at committed coaches. And then you have your own team of committed coaches as well. And they're battling it out like two, like two angelic, you know, two angelic warriors. Right, fighting it out for, for first place. Well, not, not at the moment, but we will be. And yeah, and then I just wanted to go over, you know, sort of some things that I'm seeing. I'm seeing a lot of tremendous amount of instability in the high ticket world. You know, I'm still in the back end of a lot of offers. I see some good opportunities, I really do. But what I see is a lot of opportunities is a lot of blaming the sales reps, you know, for lack of branding. Right. And you know, just, just overall I see some difficulties. You know, I'm seeing people with, you know, the businesses that have brand are just dominating. So that's got a really, really good business. It's in Australia. It's around sort of like banking and stuff like that and like mortgages. Great guy. And we were having a conversation, he was like, oh, our, our, our lead cost has doubled. And I was like, well, yeah, because like you're spending more on ads. So like you're, you're spending more. We're growing the sales team. We've grown it from two people to now it's eight people. Right? We, we have, we have a setting team in there now. Like it, it's just, man, this is just the cost of doing business. I said, but, but you have a return of 23 to 1. You know, I was like, that's phenomenal, mate. So like you have an atm, you have a big red button. You just push as many times as you want. He's like, yeah, but it's doubling. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And it's going to continue to do so until the point where it no longer makes sense or you figure out that thing, but like, it's not an infinite growth machine unless you start. Pretty normal. Yeah. I was like, unless you start. If you want to keep that down, you've got to start doing brand, right? You've got to start like, if you've got a circle like this, right? And that's the people that you're asking for money. The people like this have to be getting value. The moment that those circles converge, your cac, your cost of acquisition kind of skyrockets, right? And it's like you can, you're going to chase it forever. And so I was like, so, you know, we have a couple of options. And you know, I was like, I think we should do this, this and this for content, we should do this. And he's like, oh, okay, so like, yeah, yeah, so we'll do that like during the sales call. So during the sale, I was like, no, no, no, stop thinking about making money. Start thinking about giving value, you know, and he was really receptive to it. And so he's like, oh, like that little switch of like, okay, I've got to put money into things that don't make me money now so that I can make either the same money for the same price later, which is like, doesn't feel like a payoff, but it is. Or you know, or I, or I start creating like long term buyers. And I was telling him, I was like, okay, man. So at Dialer, we book four to six sales calls a day with zero marketing. We have no ad spend, we have no SEO, we had the website built and it's just like people are coming in from value. So if a marketing company were to come to me telling me that they could get me $10 book calls, I would go, I don't care. I get $0 book calls. So unless you can beat that. It's not that we're doing anything special. Our show up rate, I looked at the numbers. 200 book calls, 198 shows. We don't have reminders going out, right? Yeah, but it's like it also just goes to show. Oh, it's probably not the process. It's just that people want to show up.
It's definitely the process. It's all those reminders.
I was just like, like, they're like, oh, what are you doing? And I go, well, they opt in on the website, they get redirected to a calendly and then they book in and then they get redirected to a YouTube video. Now, the YouTube video is, like, just an explanation of the product. Right. Now I do know what I'm doing. Like, YouTube is a retargeting masterpiece. So, like, the moment you get someone to watch anything on your YouTube channel, if they watch it, which it would behoove them to if they're booking in a call, and like, that's like, peak interest, you know what I mean? Then YouTube will automatically just retarget them. Oh, okay. Right.
When they start seeing more of your stuff.
Yeah. I don't know if people know that. Right, but now you do. So, like, it's a really good tool. I don't know, like, if you've ever gone into, like, you know, like the closing code, a lot of them, not all of them, but a lot of them were unlisted videos on YouTube that I just embedded. What that did is, like, it made me an audience of people. Like, so it made my YouTube, like, really high value in terms, like, from a YouTube perspective. And so, like, if you have a look at, like, my. See, like, my revenue per thousand views, it's astronomical, like, comically high. I would say it's probably 100 to 150 times higher than the average. Like. Like, because of all the value you get out. Yeah. But also the demographic is Americans, Canadians and Australians. Right. Like, I don't have any Turkish. There's no India. There's nothing. It's just. It's like most people's channels are like, mostly. So even though my channel is like say 12, 13,000 subscribers, it's the equivalent of 150,000 because I don't have anyone that's not in my demographic. It's 100% core demographic. Right. And it's because I speak in technical terms and I don't. I don't simplify. Simplify my language.
So it's only the right people that are watching your content versus trying to.
Exactly.
Serve the. Serve the masses.
Exactly right. Which is why, you know, we can put a link in our YouTube, which is in there now, and you can go and you can apply for sniper insurance. And we have hundreds of people that, you know, go through there and apply to work for us. And then we scream at them, if you're lazy, don't come in.
Yes.
Which is the cultural. We're gonna get this. Fuck off. Right? Yeah.
If you're lazy. I don't think we are the people for you.
No, no, definitely not. You know, it's been really interesting, but let's kind of go through that. So, you know. You know, anyway, so actually I'll go back. So I'm seeing that instability and I'm seeing that the businesses that are willing to make that shift or are willing to, you know, do that are doing really, really well. And like they're, you know, even though advertising costs are creeping up enormously for most businesses. So therefore, like the barrier of entry of what you have to be skill wise in order to be like a successful rep, I think is quite high and the commissions are significantly lower. Like commissions are usually now around 7 to 9. From what I'm seeing, that's gone down or used to be like 20. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I remember there's a video on my YouTube, like, you're not worth 20%. Right. And I stand by that. Like, yeah, that's a, that's a big percentage, dude. It's crazy. Like, you know, but the reason why there was, that was available is because advertising was cheap. And so like now that 10's just gone to Mark Zuckerberg, right, that like from 10, 20 to 10. But now it's like as well because close rates overall are down. Like I'm seeing, I'm seeing a lot of businesses and this isn't whether I'm involved or not, that are well below 20% average close rate. Right.
I wouldn't, I actually wouldn't have guessed that.
Do you.
And you feel like it's just because of these things, like the marketing is getting a little bit harder and if you don't have a good organic brand, then just with inflation or what do you feel like is causing this?
Well, I think close rate is like a lagging indicator which has a lot, which has a bit to do with the skill set of the rep, but it has a lot to do with the marketing. Like we, like me and you could take a team of people and we could double their close rate overnight if we just made it really hard to get on a sales call. Right. So what's, what I think has happened is with the increasing cost of advertising is causing advertising departments to have to create less friction to get in, you know.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you want to keep the cost down.
Yeah. I was at Cole Gordon's event in Cabo and they were, they were saying, like, it's, you know, the cost of advertising is basically doubled. Right. And so, you know, they've managed to keep really good margin and Cole's really good at what he does. Right. And they've managed to keep really good close rates, but they do really intense training. Cole really knows how to train Salespeople, Right? And then like, he has a good brand with lots of content and you know what I mean, like, people know who he is. He's like the big boy in the space. I don't think anyone has a bigger business coaching besides maybe her Mosi. Right? Yeah, but he has like 650 people in his coaching. And one of his programs is $68,000 a year. Right.
That's a decent amount.
I'm the only person ever be allowed a payment plan, so I demanded a 12 pay.
It's for the concept of it.
I'm the only person never get it. They do 1, 2, and 3. But it was funny because, like, the sales rep, Tyler, he's a nice guy. I was just like, I just bullied him. Like, just bullied him hard. And like, they. They've watched the call and like, I refuse to get on camera because, you know, I walk around when I refuse to get on camera. I refuse to answer certain questions. I just.
You're just having fun.
Nightmare. He goes to me and he goes, hey, you know, I know who you are. So we, you know, we won't go through the whole. The whole process. I go, you probably should. That's how it started off. You probably.
You probably should. And then his. His heart had to have just dropped into his.
Oh, yeah, right. His stomach, like, oh, welcome to the Thunderdome. We're doing this for real. I don't really know if this is. I was giving him objections and like, really trying to just spin him around. And then he's like, yeah, we don't really do payment plans. I was like, well, then, you know, get my money. So you gotta pick one, dude. Do you want to get my money or do you not want my money? I was just railing him anyway, so I got a 12 pack. I said that I think I had value just being there. Right. So I thought they were getting a discount.
That's hilarious.
Yeah, but. But anyway, I was there and like, like the cost of advertising is really is really increased. So like, you know, they're. And they have so many channels and they have like. So they're doing like, liquidating offers. They've never really done much phone number stuff before, so they're now on dialer and we're like setting up like, you know, webinar purchase and like, what happens to purchasers, non purchasers, different dialing cadence and stuff like that. Specifically because, like, phone numbers are just still cheap and easy to get. But to push people further down a funnel is not easy. And so, like, there's a, there's a really, you know, unless you can convert that at a pretty high rate, like, you're going to struggle to, you know, find a sales jigger that I think, you know, makes sense. And so, you know, and even, even, you know, even places that we know really well, you know, you see reps just not lasting very long. And it's because, like, they don't, you know, if I'm gonna pay 300 bucks a book call and you don't close them, like, I'm kicking you out, man. So know, have to. Where there was that consolidation of, I think businesses that started happening about maybe two years ago where like, you know, the strongest brands rose to the top big time. I think that's happening in the sales space where it's like, if all you can do is handle objections or if all you can do is mindset, frame people into buying who are realistically pretty ready to buy if the only thing stopping them from buying is like a little bit of fear, that's a, that's a buyer. Pretty good lead, right? That's right. You know, so, yeah, so it's almost.
Like if you're, if you're an individual sales rep and you've been wondering, like, what the hell is going on with the software? Like, if you've been on there for a while and they don't have a good brand, it's like, it all makes sense.
Yeah, exactly. It's getting harder to close. The marketing is getting more inconsistent. The business owner is acting like a crazy person. Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, like I've had that many conversations with business owners where it's like, no, but like, they gave us the phone number. They're amazing. No, no. It's probably not like you don't want to be the guy that blames the lead, but you do have to be conscious that a lead is not a lead. Like, if someone's just putting their name, phone number and email for a lead magnet, like, that person is not an SQL and they probably should not be sold really fast. You know what I mean? Like, but if someone's gone through and done a website inquiry and booked a call, there's a. Probably a pretty high level of intent there. But if you try to shorten that sales cycle down so much, right? Like, especially for like info space products, fuck, man. Like, all you're gonna do is burn leads. And I was at that Hermosi workshop the other week and he sort of put in a pretty good way and he was like, you know, if you're doing direct response marketing. And if you look at like, people who require high information and lower information to buy. Right. Like me and you, we're like low information buyers. We're like, yep, makes sense. Let's go. Right. And direct response is sort of speaking to more low information buyers because, like, it's trying to do everything quickly. And so you're only talking to like a small sliver of the population that, that has seen a problem identified, it wants a solution and wants it now and is ready to buy. Right. That's what you're fighting over. And he reckons it's like 3% of the market. So if you don't have that brand stuff out there, you know, then it's really difficult. Now, the cool thing about this is.
Why I always did insurance.
The cool thing about that, like, the world has done the nurturing. Yeah. Like, yeah.
As you talk about all of this, like, I don't, I, I don't know that much of it because, like, this is exactly why I chose insurance.
Yeah. Because you're smarter. You're smarter than me.
Yeah, yeah, I, I already knew that. I'm glad that you, you're finally recognizing it because High Ticket actually was very tempting for me, particularly when I was first in the training program with you guys.
Yeah.
Because I was, you know, when you're on in a training program like that, I'm listening to people that are. And at the time, you know, it was 2021, it was a very good year for, for High Ticket. So I was hearing people and I was listening to their calls and I was like, this person is garbage. And they were out earning me by five times.
Yeah. That was a golden era.
It was, it was very difficult to not go to High Ticket. But it was just that sense of like, I just had this gut feeling. I was like, hold on. If I go do High Ticket, I'm then dependent on somebody else to do the marketing. And referrals are way harder. And I had already seen people in insurance, even though I was new to insurance, I had already seen and met and know I knew multiple people that were making seven figures a year and did like, no prospecting, you know, like, it was all just coming to them via referral. They had been in insurance for 10 years, but I was like, yeah, I'll do it for 10 years if that's like, what I get as the outcome.
Yeah, for sure. You know, you have that little bit of like delayed gratification. And I remember in 2022 and 2023, us at seventh level, sitting down, having conversations, listening to these idiot insurance salespeople bumbling way through making 80 grand a month. And I was like, what the fuck is happening? I was like, I would make a million dollars a day. I was like, what is going on?
Because it's logical. You can follow a pretty logical process and still make sales and insurance. You just can't mess up the sale. I feel like with insurance it sells itself and most of the time the sales reps unsell people.
Yes. You know, I think it's actually having dialer now. Right. Because with Sales Sniper, I never really appreciated it because like I did a lot of hustle, muscle to get lead through and all that kind of stuff. But we'd always get pretty good lead flow through of just organic businesses. Just they would dirt the website opt in. That's where most of our sales came from. But it was like they came. Right. But with dialer it's so obvious because it's that times 10x the volume, right. It's you know, like yesterday we got seven booked calls, you know, and it was like that's zero. Like that's a lot of book calls. Right. Most businesses would have to pay 1500 bucks for that. We paid zero, you know, and so like, but like the, it's really the product plays such a huge role because like we've, we have a problem in the same way that like if you don't have insurance, you have a problem. Right. The problem is you don't have insurance, you know, and so if something happens, then your family's right. Like that's like, that's the issue. Everyone knows it. It's like it's out there in the zeitgeist. Like it's not like responsible person has insurance. Right.
Even if your family's not like, let's say I'm talking to somebody and their, their kids are well off and their family's not gonna be.
Yeah. Don't be a burden though.
It's. Well, it's, it's always, it's just baked into society that we feel like a piece of for doing that.
Yeah.
Even if they can afford it and they want to, most people don't want their kids to have to do that.
No. And I think that that to me makes total sense, Jimmy. And like imagine, you know, because you don't want your, your kids having to deal with a bill, you know. Exactly. Like, why is this happening? You know, it's like it's just a level of admin, you know, and well off doesn't mean that you have cash at that moment. Do you mean like it, like so even a 5, $10,000 bill can be real around for someone that has money depending on when it's coming in, right? And so, yeah, and so like, you know, having a look at like the product plays such a huge role. I think Alex Becker, as Alex Becker has HROs, you know, and he does investments and stuff like that. And he was saying he will not invest in any company where the offer and the product is not so stupidly good that you're an idiot to not buy it. Because the sales, to have to sell that shit is so difficult, you know, that's why one of the reasons why I like for high ticket, I like fitness, right? Because like fitness is like a huge tam and everyone struggles with it at some point and you can sell them more than once. So like it's not like you need someone to turn 18 every day. It's like, no, no, that person could turn 18, then 25 and 32, then 40, then 49. And they go through different ebbs and flows of fitness and it, and it's just a net good. If they take some subs, lift some weights and eat healthier, it's a net good, right. Those people could also use insurance, I think probably, you know, for the most part, probably, probably wouldn't hurt, right? But like, you know, and so like when I, when I see it in my own business and I get all these people coming in and I'm not having to do any sales wizardry at all, not a single ounce of it, I don't follow a script, I just ask them what they're using, what problems they're having. And then I go, and then I just go, do you understand why you're having those problems? And they go, no. And I go, this is why you're having those problems. And I explain in sort of pretty detailed fashion why what they're doing will never work from a systematic. Yeah. Then I go, this is what I've created. And I go, how does that sound? They go, that's amazing. And I go, cool, man. So like from here, this is rough pricing, right? We'll have to have another call. I'll go through, make a proposal for you. I book another 30 minute call for like two to four days later, they all show up, they'll buy. You know, it's like. And then a bit, usually it'll take another three weeks to close them, right? Because there's like just logistics and there's integrations and people and all that kind of stuff. But like most people, you know, It's a good 60 of people that you give a proposal to are going to pull the trigger on it. And there's no sales in going on really whatsoever. And they show up to the calls without reminders and they do all this kind of stuff and it's like, oh, that's because like the product works, you know, like it fills a gap and they feel confident that the product will work and that they need it. And that's why like insurance is like a great, it's a great like analogous to that because it's like they need it, they want it. Right. Like they've put it off and now it's like cool. But the cool thing about that is that like you don't. There's no like integrations team that you've got to get with to you know, kind of get it done. You can just sort of like the salesperson can help massage that thing the whole way through. Right.
You don't need as much infrastructure was what, what always kept me in insurance. You know, there's always a hard way and an easy way to do things. I'm a big believer in doing things the easiest way possible. You get no bonus points for doing things the hard way.
Absolutely.
And so when I look at it it's like, okay, if the goal is to make as much money as possible and sell things, doing that, wait, that's the goal.
Shit, I've been up.
You know something that the way I've always looked at insurance is like if I'm selling something else, I have a pretty limited market in who I can ask for referrals.
Yeah.
Whereas with insurance, kind of like you said, everybody needs it and we've been baked like society's been baked to in a good way. Right. That everybody values it and everybody's open to talking about it. And so like I've, I've just never seen it in any other industry. I'm sure there's some be somebody in the comments that's like, oh, I've done it in this industry but like I've just never seen it in any other industry where you can build a completely referral based business and be making a ton of money.
Yeah. Well I think that insurance is the only one where like the commission structure doesn't make any sense until you understand that insurance people stick around for 12 years. You know, like what are you saying? How can you get 50% of the first year? Right. It's like so you sell something for 1200 bucks, you collect a hundred and you make 600 commission. Like that doesn't make any sense. And that's on the low end. Yeah. And like I saw, I see people do these like, like, oh, this is an MLM or a pyramid. It's like, no, I was like, I understand why people would think that, but, but I also understand that like it's, it's just because they don't understand that like the insurance companies just outsource the sales and marketing. It's the same as alarms, right? You go door knocking alarms, hey, we'll install a free alarm system. Oh shit. It's like, why would they do that? It doesn't make any sense. It's like, because they can sell the monitoring contract for 8x, right? What that alarm system costs to put in. And then that monitoring company doesn't have to do anything but monitoring. And then they just buy contracts and now they have contracts, contracts, raises, EV and they get mrr. They borrowed a lot of money to be able to do that so that they could cash flow negative for three years. Like that's what they did, you know, so it's just like, oh, you're like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Like, and when you, when you sell someone into a $1,200 insurance package, $200 a year insurance package, right. That person will likely stay for 12 years. So they're going to pay $15,000, right? Let's just say that. Right? And they're going to pay you 6, 800 bucks, whatever, right? And like, oh, that is crazy. It's like, yeah, but you're looking at as a 1200 sale if it's 15,000, nobody would blink an eye. Right? But the insurance companies have actuaries and their full time job is to assess risk tolerance, right? And they have assessed that this is the good way to do it because they don't need sales reps, they don't need training, they don't need HR for it, they don't need to do marketing for it. And all they're doing is they're like, they know the numbers will work out. Yeah, exactly. And so it's like, oh, that makes sense.
It's just data.
That's why I like when I see these YouTube videos about like, you know, PHP and all these things about like, oh, they're a pyramid scheme. I was like, it's really not. It's just like, you just don't understand that they're willing to pay two years. You know, like they're, they're willing to do that and then, you know, instead of Salaries in a management structure you have overrides.
Well, I think what creates that is like every, every insurance company is not created equally, obviously.
Yeah.
And, and there are plenty, I would say the majority of insurance companies. It's actually really difficult to see success in even as an experienced sales rep. That's pretty good. You know, like I've, I've worked at plenty of insurance companies where I've bought, I've brought people in that were good reps, you know, they were good reps making good money in other industries, whether that was door to door or high ticket or whatever. And they, and it was just difficult for them, you know. And so I think there is something to be said of like, you know, I, I agree. I don't think it's a pyramid scheme, but sometimes people get in and they're expecting, you know, like they're, they're sold the dream that it's going to be the easiest thing in the world.
Sure, that's a problem.
And yeah. And then they're like, oh, this is a pyramid scheme. They screwed me over.
I think you gotta, if you understand the bell curves of sales anyway, like if you have a look at the curve on sales in any company, I'm talking like from Microsoft down to a high ticket, it is a like, right, that top dude is making 20% of all the sales. Right, right. In a team of 50. It's just how it is. Like Steph Curry scores a lot of points. Yep. You know, it's like it doesn't mean that there's an unfair advantage to Steph Curry. He's just way better than everybody else. You know what I mean? So like, you know, he gets the opportunities, he makes the opportunities and he, he puts the ball in the hole, you know. And like that's. So you combine that with the structure and you get people who just don't really understand sales. They don't really understand how that business operates. And you're like, I can see how from the outside. But like as soon as you put a little bit of critical thinking on it and you go, well, you know, the most successful reps will always be the most successful reps, you know, because like they try harder, they work harder and they have done the work to be better. Because sales is not something. Sales is something basically anyone can be really good at.
And yeah, you just have to practice and.
Exactly. And, and you have to be little bit disciplined in your practice and not just chase shiny objects. One of the things that I hate is when like reps just go and buy New courses all the time. It's like, guys, you just don't need to do that. Like, you know, we have a new script. Should we do it? Are you doing well on the old script? Yeah. Well, then keep it. I don't care if you scream like wookies at people. Like, if it's working, it's working. Like, who gives a right? And like, if, you know, you don't have to be sycophantic about how you do things. You just want to do things in a way that you, you feel comfortable. And like, I was having a meeting with my team, I think is the big one. The other, it's like, hey, if, if I tell you to do something but you're doing it and it's working, just ignore me.
No, I won't, I won't do it unless you tell me to.
It's like, it's like, oh, but they said do this. It's like, is it working? Yeah, keep doing it. Sweet, man. What do I give a shit? Just do what works. Make money. Like, don't lose money because I had told you to do something.
You know, so there is the aspect of like, you know, finding somewhere with that. The, the starting path is a little bit easier.
Oh, for sure.
It's like, yeah, like, if I'm going to go run a hundred meter race, I'd rather run that somewhere that is, you know, like below sea level, Right?
Yes.
Weather conditions are good, those sort of things. Versus, like being above sea level and stuck in the mud. I'm obviously going to go slower.
Yeah.
And so I think there's just a lot of insurance companies that getting started is really difficult.
Yeah.
Like, I think I'm, I think I'm fairly good at it. And the company that I started with, there was no leads and it was all just like, work your warm market and try to get referrals out of that. And I was pretty young.
That is tough, especially when you're new.
Yeah, I didn't make any sales, bro.
Yeah.
And it was a good opportunity. It gave me the vision. But there has to be that, that groundwork. And that's why, like, as you and I have worked in insurance over the past couple years, I've been a pain in the ass and kind of a dick face about like. No, I don't think you understand. Like, this is actually pretty difficult. Yeah. You know, and it's because the, the opportunity is there and everybody, anybody can make it work.
Right.
And, and like, people are very wealthy in those kind of models too. But who doesn't want an easier starting path to get to that. We all want to get to the point where we're, we're referral based business.
Yeah. However, but you got to get leads together.
Yeah. You got to get your initial, your initial book of clients to start getting referrals out of them. And so, you know, if, if it's your warm market or like a lot of companies, you know, they, you're buying your own leads and insurance is known for shitty leads.
Yeah. The, the number of people that can just go out there and work a room and get their warm market, like, to build their business from scratch is just a very small percentage of the population. Because you have to have had a, A, an upbringing.
Yep.
Right. Like, I could do that because I went to 11 schools, right? And so, like, like, all right, cool. Like, I know a lot of people, right. And I've. And I'm good at keeping up with people. Right. And I'm that going to 11 different schools made me very comfortable in networking environments because, like, you have to learn that. So I have, like a little switch. Like, I was at, I was at that Cabo event, Cole's event, and I had one of my guys with me. I was like, all right, time to go into fucking, like, network mode. Social whoop. Like that. Right. Social acumen up to 110. I was like, hey, you know, you're going in, making jokes, talking to people, doing things, getting phone numbers, texting people. Ah, find things to comment. Like, that's how you do that. Right. I went through, I got like, you know, all the sort of largest businesses in the room. I was talking to the owner of them, and I had their number, and it's like that. But that's a skill set that you develop. It's also like, comes from, like, having the trauma of going to 11 schools. Right.
Paid for that skill set.
Exactly. Paid for it. You know, you can't say anything to me I haven't said in front of a mirror. Right. So, you know, so, like, that's a, it's a rarity though. But I do, I realize that. And like, I didn't, you know, to be honest, like, I would have rather have gone to less schools, you know, and if you kind of grew up in a town and you're the same people and you're sort of not comfortable around a lot of people that you don't know. Like, my wife is that way. She went to the same house, same school. Her whole upbringing, like, she can turn it on, but, like, doesn't last for three hours. It's, you know, it's 30.
It's way more energy.
Yeah, exactly.
It takes more bandwidth. That's what I really like about, you know, what we're doing with sniper insurance and why we really planted our flag there and why I was more on board here than, than anywhere else that we've ever been is like it's the first, it's the first company that I've seen in insurance that is marketing the way you're talking about how high ticket should be. Right. They're giving, they're, they're giving value, value, value and you know, you're selling off of the back end of that.
The sales process is clever everywhere I've ever seen. Yeah.
Because it just makes it way easier to get started versus, you know, the other places that we've seen. And like you've seen it. It's just, it's not a very out of age.
Leads. Yeah.
It's not a very clever process. It's just below the phones up.
Yeah. It's difficult and I can see the data because we have a few of those guys on the system and a lot of it's like, you know, it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars a day, you know, and just pounding phones, which again I don't have a problem with, to be honest. Like I've done that for a long time. However, like, unless you figure that out quickly, you're not going to hang around because no one's going to do three months of that. You might do three weeks of it. Right. But, but like it's just. And then when you crack it and you smash it out of the park again, you're, I would, I would be shocked if someone did a year. Right. Even being really, really good at it. Because then what they're going to want to do is build a team. Right. Which makes sense because that's how you can make more money. But they are not, they are going to expect everyone to do what they did and it won't happen because they are the unicorn.
Yeah, I know. I was that guy.
Yeah.
Like, like I did that and I got good. But even when I was really good, I was still making a lot of dials.
Yeah.
You know, and it's. People don't recognize, you know, like, like when I was one before I got good, you know, let's say like my, when I was like an average skill set, you know, making 10 to 15 grand a month, I was still making like six to 700 calls a day. That was, I was making a lot of Calls.
Yeah.
And I did it for a long time and I ended up getting really good at it. So I wasn't making that many. But even when I was really good, I was still making a, you know, a few hundred calls a day. And you're right, most people don't. It's a grind.
Well, I mean, just like, you know, I, I, I remember I've spoken to high ticket dudes like that. Like when you're doing, let's say, let's say you're doing age leads. Final expense, bro. Yeah, that's hard mode. Selling like proper fucking hard mode, right? You're like, oh, this lead's been called by 80 other sales reps. They're on Social Security. And they opted in three years ago.
Excuse me, Even a month ago was pretty tough.
It's crazy. Like it can be done 100, it can be done. And like, great way to start. Like if I was gonna get my son to like just like hate sales to do right. But like, you know, it's like, you know, and I talked to high ticket dudes and I'm just like, yeah, but like your guys opted in like yesterday, these guys three years ago and they're making sales. So what are you doing? You know, so like, you know, but like again that, and that model works, but it is really, really difficult. And that's why like, you know, when we tried the numbers game, it was on that it was just like you're dealing, you're, you, you opt everybody out so quickly and it's like, it's fair enough. Because it's like, man, I don't want to call old people. They're going to scream at me and tell me to off and then I'm a scammer. It's like, yeah man, I get it. That's like you're not weak for, for thinking that, like you just don't want to have to do it that way. And then when we came into to this one and we had this sort of opportunity and everything laid out in front of us, I think both of us went, oh man, that's so clever.
Well, the data starts to make sense, right? Like the retention. The retention, not the success. The retention in the other model is 7% make it past the first year and here it's 40.
Yeah, that's crazy, man.
It's a significant difference. Especially like 40% retention in any sales is pretty good. Yeah, but when you consider that, that most people are recruiting people that don't have sales experience. Right.
That's as good as a retention As a salaried sales position. Yeah.
And they're recruiting people that don't have, like, they're recruiting the people, their friends and family to come and work with them. They go to the bar and they recruit the bartender, the Uber driver.
Yeah.
And that's the retention. That's bananas.
And all you have to do is go to the link in the description of this YouTube video and click that. Yeah. Right.
Maybe you'll fall into that 40%.
Maybe. Maybe you will. And if you don't, I don't care.
Unless you're lazy. If you're lazy, I recommend not clicking that.
Yes, please don't. If you're lazy and you're like, no, stay in high ticket until that dies. Right.
We're not going to make you feel good about yourself, I promise.
No, no, no. That's not our, that's not our. That's not our motto. Right? No. Yeah. You look in the mirror every day. A win or a loser. And you got to decide which one you're going to be in.
Well, I tell everybody, you know, that like our vision for sniper insurance when we created it was creating a place where top performers. Because. Because almost everywhere I've ever been, I think you experience the same thing. Like, the top performers are kind of on their own island. And you, you're. It's, it's. Most top performers don't care about the loneliness.
Right.
Like, the most top performers don't really give a shit about being quote, unquote lonely. Right. Um, but at the same time, it's still more fun to do things with. With your friends.
Exactly.
Like, the, the environment that we're already creating and it's, it's manifesting itself very, very quickly is an environment where top performers feel like this is where they're supposed to be. And the people that aren't top performers, we don't necessarily have to fire them. Usually they just leave because it's uncomfortable. It's like when you're surrounded by 60 people that are crazy about it and they're. They have a top performance mindset. If you don't, it makes you feel like about yourself, so you leave.
Yeah. And, you know, it's. It's funny, right? Like, I remember I was talking to a guy the other day and he was like, I put him in touch for like, a job. Like, he was like, hey, do you know any gigs? And I was like, yeah, he's in the uk. I was like, yes, we do. This guy. And he got on. He got on the. He got on the call and he asked the guy, what's his. What's his ot? Right? First question, I was like. And. And. And so I. The guy told me, and I messaged him back, and I was like, hey, man, like, I'm not giving you any more of those. Because, like, you can't ask that question to me. You know, it's like, oh, but I want to make sure it's a serious opportunity. And it's like, mate, you're a sales guy. Like, Steph Curry does not go to a team and go, how many points can I score? Because. Because Steph Curry scores points. Yeah.
Well, it's like people that ask, what.
What.
What's the average person making? And I'm like, I understand that you want to get a grasp of it, but it's like, yeah, what are we talking about? Like, the. It doesn't.
I.
And what I always tell people is I'm like, I can fill you full of bullshit and tell you that the average person is making 10 grand like everybody else does in this space, or I can just be real and tell you, like, hey, the top people are making all the money, and the people at the bottom aren't making very much money because. But usually the people at the bottom aren't fucking trying.
Oh, 100, man. Like, they're just, you know, which is fine. It's like, everyone's got to find their time when they want to do shit. And, like, if now's on the time, it's fine. Just like, don't be here. And that's not, like, you can come back, you know, it's like. But just don't be here right now because, like, it just. Unless you're gonna. Unless you're gonna be, like, a someone that adds something, then, like, just don't come. Yeah, you know?
Yeah, exactly.
All right, sweet. I gotta say, it was cool. Good to chat to you, buddy, and speak to you soon.
See you guys on the next episode.
Bye.
