Why Your Sales Team Isn’t Profitable (Fix This)
Jack coaches David and Chris on why their sales teams lose money. The weakest link is usually the appointment setter. Fix it by reviewing 3-5 calls daily on Loom, using Socratic questions to surface emotional motivations, and tracking KPIs to find the constraint that kills revenue.
Chapters
guys. This meeting is being recorded. Supposed to have like, uh, 6 more people show up, but they're not showing up, so that's all good. You guys get all the love on time, finally. Yes, you are. Good job. So we'll hit a review. Let me just answer some of Chris's questions real quick because it's just you two. I'll keep this at 10 minutes and then we'll bang your review. Uh, but nice to meet you, man. How you doing?
Hey, hey, Jack, nice to meet you.
Hey, David.
This is, uh, my first call on, so yeah, excited. I've watched a couple of the replays and it looks like—
is that for the whole membership?
Yeah, for the whole membership.
Yeah, you picked me first, right?
I picked you. Yes, yes, yes.
Thank you, thank you. All right, go ahead, bro, go ahead.
Um, yeah, so I mean, the reason I, the reason I picked you is because like obviously I went through all the coaches and I was like trying to see, you know, um, okay, you know, where am I gonna get leverage value. And essentially I'm a fractional, like, sales director right now. But I think my biggest constraint, my biggest challenge is so much of my time is going to serve my clients that I'm, that I'm having a hard time working on like building the pipeline, doing, doing my own sales, right? Yes. So I don't know if that's a topic we can talk about on this call.
Like, Yeah, it's a constraint that I'm actually going through. I've, I've solved in a manner many different ways, but it's just new levels, new devils. There's a new constraint depending on how, what your current model is for it. So just so I have things squared, you have your fractional clients and then you also want to acquire new clients.
Yep.
And the constraint is having the time and systems to acquire new clients because you're busy on focusing on servicing the clients. Is that right? Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. So then I guess On top of that is like, well, then is the actual constraint not having a leveraged delivery process or is it the, you know what I mean?
So I'm like, I'm stuck. Yes. No, I hear you. I hear you. One thing I'll say is that like, I, it's, it would take so long to break all this down and it'd be like kind of happy to do it, but I want to do, do a review is cool. I'll just say from a high level with your clients, you do want to have a process and a, and a conscious process. For example, if you are just randomly meeting with all of your clients' sales reps, because and not based on their performance. There is an exact YouTube video I did on that and the guy asked at the end of the keynote, like, how many meetings should I have based on the results? Right? And then I link, there's a QR code in that freaking keynote. You go to it. If you watch that, I taught 100 people thing, you watch that keynote. There's a QR code. You go to that as a sales rep tracker in that, in that, I give them a Drive link. It's no lead magnet bullshit. People went to it. I actually closed $25K worth of clients from it even though I had no lead magnet. I'm like, yeah, take it for free. And then they all took it and then they reached out to me. So it did actually work. But in the tracker, it says like, if you're at this, if you're well above KPI, do this many meetings. If you're between this and this KPI, do this many meetings with the person. If they're well below KPI, do this many meetings, right? So to keep it, that's me telling you not to sell shit. It's just that I'm, that's like a 10-minute conversation about how many meetings to have with people. You can check that out there, right? Okay. It has all the answers, like 3 with the guy who sucks, 1 with the guy who's great. That's kind of the general rule, but you'll see. Um, you want to have the 80% of sales management, in my opinion, from all my client results, it's quality control, right? It's not being a firefighter in Slack and just being there for everyone as soon as possible, other than the client, of course. But you should have the client in a position of understanding that We're here to make impact, not to, you know, ramble all day. And decisions need time to take fruit, like Matt would talk about, let the data play out. And then your conscious process with the salesperson should be, you get on, you look at the data. Step 1, you look at all the data. You must have an ability to track all that data, which I assume you do. You look at the data and you see from a team-wide level, what is the constraint, right? You're able to identify what is the epistemic problem because there's probably 4 things that are not in KPI in a sales team. But what is the thing that is going to have the sig— most significance to solve that, like, until we solve that, trying to improve the show rate, we're not gonna get that much lever pull from improving the SMS copy if our setter call is so robotic that, like, no one's gonna show up no matter how many sexy text messages we send, right? Or cool thank you page assets we have. We wanna improve the set call. That's the epistemic constraint. So you would be focusing most of your your, like, resources and time on that, right? Within that, you want to identify within the setter team data what is the constraint specifically. It could be the conversation to booking rate. We look there at a team level, we see that's below KPI. We then go and look at the individual contributors to that constraint. So we have 3 appointment setters, and we see that Johnny, number setter, what, setter number 2 out of 3, is giving the most issue here, contributing to this. He has the worst of the 3 and they may all be a problem, but maybe just one of them save you a lot of time reviewing random calls and going in the CRM and picking one and going, yeah, this guy got the ball on conversation of booking, but like it was like a one-off. So look at who's contributing the most. Maybe it's all of them, then this would just work for all 3, but maybe it's just one of them. Then you'll go in and go into the CRM and pull the data for the non-booking outcomes. Like all the statuses that were non-bookings, like call me back later, not interested, all this stuff. You should have those statuses. Then you do it obviously just for that setter. And then you'll see it'll come up with like 20, 20 call recordings of all the dropped balls he had. Then you'll just pull 10 of those and it's in the, if you watch that video on YouTube, I have a setter tracker, you can do it. And then you just pump those call recordings. You should be doing like 3 to 5 a day. How long are the set calls on some of these client accounts? 5 to 7 minutes.
They're, they're like, you hit that on 1.5 speed with a tracker.
You go, you pull up a, you do a Loom. You just film a Loom. You go, hey, what's up, John? In this video, I'm going to review 5 of your set calls that went to a non-booking outcome. I'll provide all the coaching points in front of you so you can write this down as I'm reviewing live. Let's get into it. And then you just bang it in. You start saying, okay, cool. What you've done wrong here is this. What you need to do in future is that. The reason why you need to do that is this. Here's an example. Roleplay the voice into the microphone. All right, cool. Next thing, you just review 5 of those calls for the constraints and try to focus on 3 to 5 action items. And that's your job as a sales professional is better than them is you have the ability to consolidate constraints. Like, you know, ideally you want to look at when you look at those non-booking outcomes, bro, if you see like financial DQ is like the biggest contributor, you want to like, and then he's get like, he gets like 10% of the non-booking outcomes are like, call me back later. I've already found a program or something like that. Well, that's the 80/20 of the 80/20, right? Is that Johnny Setter number 2 sucks most at financial DQ handling, financial constraint. He's not looping on it and like opening them up, whatever it is, right? And you just hit, and as soon as you hear that constraint that you realize is scrapping the whole call, you can pretty much stop the core review there and go, okay, for that one you needed to do this. Let's hear the next one. Okay, you've done it again. Just a little bit of a different version. Do that. Okay, you've done it again. Okay, you've done it again. Okay, you've done it again. And you just, you ended up 5 reviews in 30 minutes of the exact skill deficiency that's holding him back the most, which is holding the team back the most, which is holding the whole data back. And you just pump it. Then you follow up that core review. You give it to him, say, watch it. You see in Loom if he watched it, give me feedback points. See if he gives you feedback points. It wasn't a fake view. And then you jump on a one-on-one with him later in the week. Just 1 to 2 one-on-ones and just roleplay the thing with him. You maybe do it in a team meeting, and then next week you do another review, and you just nail down all these objections that they suck at until they all get better. If you're doing much— if your, if your day as a sales manager is much different to that, where you're like, unless it's the start of the engagement with the client where you're fixing your script and process, once you're past that point of establishing a good process, if you're doing other stuff like spending loads of time in Slack chatting all day with the CEO. I don't know what else, guys. Clients come to me and they manage to make this job last like 8 hours a day. And I'm like, it actually doesn't. There's only like 3 moves you can make to actually make the data get better. And you need to let it happen. You know, like, don't do a one-on-one every day with the rep. He's gonna suck tomorrow as well. Yeah. Do it today. Let him cook. Give him some assets. Let him get better. Review it again. And then you need to really, at that point, track, is this person worth my time? If they're not starting to trend up and hockey stick in their performance. Depending how many reps you have, it, you, you sort of really want to nail that down. I could break it down personally for you based on your numbers, but we need to review this call. It's like you, you, you want to break down, am I doing that? Am, am I actually hitting the needle movers or am I wasting time? Because, you know, at the end of the day, if your salespeople make more money but you, you're seemingly a little less, you're still a little bit more absent and slack, they're not going anywhere. They're not gonna be like, oh, fuck this. So they're gonna stay as long as they're making more money.
right?
And the CEO's happy. Then does that make sense so far? Then we can have a quick conversation over getting clients and stuff like that. Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that makes sense.
Yeah. Just go check out my content on YouTube. I, I lay it out. Um, then in terms of, uh, get— this is a constraint I face. So I used to do full done for you, right? Like I used to do done for you. I had like 4 clients, right? 3 clients, like doing like probably $40K or something a month US. So that I got capped at that forever. Right? After a while, I got captured that, yes, you can— the answer to that, if you want to solve that constraint, which is what I'm going back into soon because I've already got 2 clients that are begging for it with my Done With You model, is, uh, you eventually hire a team, right? Unless you get so pointy at doing it on your own, like I said before, that you— you like— I wouldn't get a team until you are dialed. You are so dialed, you've taken that extra client on, you're getting great results at that point. That's when you can start considering bringing on like a setter manager or something like that to manage all the account setters. Before you say you have 5 clients, 3 clients, you can bring on a setter. If I know you might be thinking, hey, I'm not even at that point yet, but just so you know, it's like you can eventually get so dialed in that you can hire someone that can help you. My recommendation with that is don't hire a little helper. Get a VA for like data stuff, but that's not really a hire. Don't hire someone that you think, like, don't hire just a little helper, hire someone you think is good and you can paint them into the vision. This is the ideal scenario, someone you've groomed up who's good, you can come in as a setup manager and take some of that workload off you, right? And then you can, you know, you can for sure scale out the done-for-you clients. That's what I'm doing now. I've already got an account manager. In the past, I hit a constraint with done-for-you with the fractional manager thing. It was like doing back in the day. And then I moved to a done with you model, right? Where I get the client to implement. Now, my thoughts on that is that what I did, my thesis for that is I built a ton of authority before I actually could try to go out there and convince people that I could just tell them how to do it and it would get results. I used to just do it for them. Now I got to a point where I got some receipts and I, and I really got so pointy with done for you. I was constrained. I went and did done with you. and now I was able to scale to $100K a month, right? I was like, just because, and, and all the clients get results and every client renews. Like literally every single client has renewed because they just wanna stay on and they keep it going. So it works as a good model, right? But now I do see the option for me to go to done for you. And in terms of, um, getting clients, in my opinion, is that I've, I've just paid a guy $25K for Instagram coaching. Like I've laid it down. But up until that point, uh, for done for you for 3 years, it was all just referrals. Honestly, and then, um, from getting clients as well and getting referrals from getting great results. And then what I did just before this Instagram guy was do YouTube and you can honestly do core reviews, right? Because a lot of the time you can go and try to get a lead acquisition system from like a coach who can teach you like cold outbound email. I don't do that. You can do that. I, I just wouldn't teach you it because I haven't done it. I haven't needed to do it. I, I've generated what I've generated through pure organic. Of doing content and having a really strong reputation in my industry. God forbid I get a client because I'll get 3 referrals out of it. So that's my strategy. If you wanna, uh, that way the referrals ends up being that your fulfillment is your marketing. So you don't have to spend a ton of time trying to beg people to come and work with you. That's how I've done it. Product-led growth. Um, if you wanna do the more outreach strategy, then yeah, you can consider guys like, I don't know, Daniel Fazio, and all these other guys that just do a really good job at teaching you how to get cold customers at scale. I know that was an absolute brain dump, but—
No, no, no, I love it. Yeah, yeah, no, super helpful. Thank you.
David, let's fucking bang it in, bro. Let's do a call review, 40 minutes. Easy.
I just wanted to—
Give me some context about this call before I get started.
It's just my latest selling call. I think it's definitely Matt Ryder.
Okay, cool. And how, real quick, give me some context to this call. What happened, etc.?
Yeah, so this was like a reschedule from ages ago, so I've just been digging in the CRM.
Had he done a sales call or he'd done a set call?
So he'd done a triage. He actually never contacted us, but he booked in a triage call. And he rescheduled, but no one ever contacted him again for like months. And then obviously today I was just like digging through the pipeline, just looking for leads. And then I gave him a call. So it's just like a—
And how, um, how old was he specifically?
How old?
You know? Yeah, how old was he?
2 months.
2 months? Okay, not crazy.
Yeah, it would have been 2 months.
The season, depending on the offer. And what was the outcome of the call?
Uh, so I ended up booking him.
Okay.
Um, he wanted some more information towards the end of the call, but I framed, um, having a closing call would be more help. Yes. Yeah.
So, okay, cool. Let's do it.
Just want you— just want to get feedback on the process.
Yeah, no problem, man.
How do you feel about that?
Google Drive, hey. It's fucking shit. 2 secs. Let me download it. I'll just download it and play out of QuickTime Player. It's way better. Yeah, uh, if you can let me. Let me see. Oh no. Yes, download.
Cool.
Give me 2 secs. Okay. Okay, let's do this.
You still speak to White Ox every now and then?
I don't actually, haven't spoke to him in a while. I heard some things have changed, uh, on his end, but I haven't spoke to him. But I've been coaching, uh, Jacob Keane.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah, he's kind of— he's, he's in his, uh, in his kind of— they're close friends. But I haven't really— yeah, I haven't chatted to Riley in a while since True Blue, which was awesome. That event was sick.
Yeah, it was great.
Hello, Michael?
Yes, speaking.
Hey, Michael, it's David from Cyber Revolution. How are you?
I'm good, thanks.
How are you? Yeah, not bad, not bad at all. I've seen that you reached out to us here earlier this year about a possible career change into cybersecurity. Is that right?
Yeah, it was. I was just getting more information about it.
Yep. Okay, did you find the information you were looking for, or are you still looking?
Yeah, I'm still, I'm still looking.
Beautiful. Okay, what's leading you to want to have a look at getting some more information about getting into cybersecurity?
Just more about it and what pathways it'll open.
And how, what, sorry?
Just learning more about it and what pathways it will open for me.
Okay. Okay. Is there a reason why you're considering moving into cybersecurity?
What I'd say is this with this one, you just did a binary question. Is there a reason? And they go, yeah. And they go, oh, and this is like kind of logical. What I always do, there's a couple of approaches you can take to when someone gives you a shit answer to the connecting question, right? There's two primary, like kind of principal ways you can do it in my opinion. One is to split it down the middle, the split approach, and the other one is to fast forward. I'll show you and I'll explain to you what that is. So the problem is you're asking what are you looking for and they basically say, well, I just saw the ad, right? And what you want to do is, is decouple that or split it. And this is why you can say something to the effect of, okay, no issues. And I guess that's why we reached out. Right? And I suppose, why do we potentially want to make the— whatever it is, solution— why do we want to make the career change? Or just broadly, why do we want— why do we potentially want the help? Right? That's what you can do. If someone goes, I just saw the ad, that's like another answer. For him, I would have just done this, which is the fast forward approach, is to go Okay. That makes sense. I always just agree. So to not trigger any resistance, not make it feel like an interrogation, right? Okay. That makes sense. And I guess let's say you got the skills. This is a tech offer, right?
Cybersecurity. Cybersecurity.
Getting into cybersecurity. Getting into, bro, I have like literally 9 clients that sell this type of offer. Okay. And I guess like, let's say you got the skills and is it a career change? Just to understand.
Yeah.
Okay, cool. Let's say you got the skills and you made the career transition into cyber. What? Right? See how fast forwards it gets past it? Because sometimes even as a sales rep, when you sell these tech off this, this offer, the prospect says like they think too much in the now. They either say, I just saw the ad, or Well, you know, right now you get as a closing, in closing, you ask the connecting question. They go, well, right now I'm in a tradie and I'm just seeing what's out there.
Yeah.
See how it doesn't explain, you're not getting what you need, which is the future.
Yeah.
So you fast forward it in your language. You go, okay, that makes sense. And I guess like, let's say you, you got these skills and you made the transition into cybersecurity, like over the horizon for you, like what do you want to I guess, what do you want to achieve by making the change? Like, you know, what do you want to achieve? And the person goes, well, I'm looking for— and is it— I'm assuming this is sort of the answer, your gold standard answer you're looking for from what you did ask, which is I want to have more financial freedom, make more money so I can spend more time with my family. Is that what you're looking for?
Yeah, yeah, exactly that.
So that, that's what, that's what this device will do is essentially, uh, get that shit out of the way whether it's like, okay, what's got you looking for a fitness coach? And they're like, oh, you know, right now the gym I'm at is just really shitty, there's no one there to help me. I go, okay, no problem. Let's say like you got like the help you needed with it, with your health and fitness, like, and you sort of were able to essentially reach your ideal physique and health. Like, what would you want that to be? And they'd say like, oh, I want to have a six-pack abs. Okay, cool. And you can say, why is that important to you, if you want to probe on and get emotional. But see how either way, by by fast forwarding going, okay, I hear what you said. Like, let's say you got what you needed. Why do you wanna get it?
Yeah. Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Let's say you got these skills. What do you wanna achieve? Now, the other approach is if you get a really shitty answer, and at the end of the day, you can still just do this, which is, okay, no issues. I guess that's why we reached out, which is really the very abrupt way of saying this is like they say, I just saw the ad. You go, okay, cool. I guess that's why we booked the call, but why do we want the help?
Yeah.
And then it splits it and dismantles their ability to answer again like that. Right. But that's just, just how you get through that.
Yeah.
I think that'll help a lot because, yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say one thing I'm working on is cutting my call time as well from 15 to 10.
Yeah.
Just really getting to the point.
That would honestly just come down to, yeah, asking more pointy custom questions. Yeah, and potentially seeing if there's any structural fat in your setting call where, like, questions that just don't need to be asked. Yeah, like, that are just like overcooking problem, which is a lot of setters do. They just overfocus on the problem. You can get some pain, get the effect, but they overspend too much time in the cause of the problem. Like, how many hours at your job? Like, it doesn't matter. They don't have freedom. They've said it. Like, that's all you need, you know what I mean? Like, you don't need that much. Like, how many— oh, where do you work and how many hours do you travel? It's like, if they've said to you like I don't spend enough time with my family because my job's too busy. Like they've laid down, like that's it. You've got basically what you need on a set call.
Yeah, I just think it's the way things are going. It's got— it's moving towards a new era, like AI era. So the more stuff that gets brought in, you're gonna need security for it. That's what we think.
And that narrative is so strong.
Hey, that's true.
I've not been in Australia in nearly 3 years.
So Good transition into the job?
Plastic extrusion operator. But before that, I was in England, I was running sites on the railway.
Okay, okay. And I guess, do you feel like with the industry that you're currently in at the moment, there isn't any AI evolution at all? Or any sort of—
Not at the minute, no. No, not at the minute, no.
See how that was like a bucket as well? You go, do you not feel like there's anything in your thing? You know, do you not feel like there's anything in your career now? Yeah, you can ask that if you're really stuck. But I ultimately, like, again, I try to make that Socratic, which is taking it from an is it, do you, which gets a logical answer to a more emotional answer that gets the prospect to do the talking instead of you. Because you just framed the answer and he goes, yes. You want to ask the question, get him to say it, right? And that gets it emotional. So he's more bought in. He's rationalizing his own thoughts and he's giving you what's top of mind and what's most emotional. So I would say, like, what was your intent there to get him to basically say there's no AI growth in his career path?
Um, yeah, yeah, because he's right now just thinking about the external.
Yeah, in England I was running sites on the railway.
Okay, okay.
And I guess do you feel like a good bridging, like, okay, okay, that's good.
Naturally you're currently in at the moment, there isn't any AI evolution at all or any—
oh, you— what you want to do is just go, okay, what's got you potentially looking for like a change out of your current job? Like I guess why, why, like, why leave the current?
Yeah.
And see how it's Socratic? It's not like, is it not AI at scale with resistant prospects that are less aware? You're gonna get a better answer to that if you do what you did there with less aware prospects. Like, and they were just more resistant. They might go, well, I don't know, maybe, whereas if your objective here is to, I'm assuming if your objective as a salesperson based on what I can see is you've done a great goal. You transition well into situation and now you're looking for problem, correct?
Yeah. Exactly.
Okay. So that's why I would ask a Socratic question that gets them just go, okay, what is it about your job right now that makes you feel like ultimately you, you might not have as much opportunity to get into AI if you want to do that, right?
Yeah.
And then they'll go, well, it's just a very old industry. It's like a legacy business. They're not going anywhere with that. Okay. And you ultimately don't feel like it's gonna give you the, the growth financially and And freedom-wise, to make the money you want to make? No. Okay, ultimately, and like, I guess just so I understand, like, what's that holding you back from doing though? Like, to consider making a change? Effect? Oh, I can't spend time with my family. Okay, and that's pretty much all a problem that I'll get on a set call.
Yeah.
And the rest I'm going to do is painting like massive pull into the solution, future pacing. How much do you want to make? How would life be? All that good stuff. And like, how much hours do you have to commit? Financial qualifier, all that good stuff. That's how I would do that call. That would make it last like literally 7 minutes.
And not at the minute, not technology. No, not at the minute, no.
Okay, so I guess it's just a case of future-proofing yourself here, or what?
Yeah, that's all. Yeah, that's what it's looking for as well. And more, um, a lot of men I'm dealing for, I'm for on shifts, and got a young family, you see. So I mean, I was looking for more.
So you would have got, if you'd asked an open— see my process, what I said I go, what's holding you back from doing? What do you think he would have said? He just said he doesn't have time. He wants to spend more time with his family. He's saying it in like a, in like a, I want more, I want more of that. Whereas if I did my entry with problem, he would have said, I don't spend enough time with my family. And he would have got it as a problem. It would have been spoken out as a problem. And then you can do, when you are intending to future pace, you can get him to say, I would be able to spend more time with my family. Yeah. And you just get a bit more pointy. So try to avoid, again, you can watch this back, but try to avoid bucket questions where you're saying the answer in the question and asking, is that right? Try to find ways to ask it Socratically, which is like an open question that gets them to say it because it's what they truly believe more than just yes, logical. Right? And then that's the overall I'm saying.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. So like working from home? Would be ideal for you and having a bit of flexibility?
Yeah, definitely.
Okay, okay, cool, cool. I'm just kidding.
So again, like, you go working from home, you can ask that, but like, again, I would say like, okay, well, some of our clients come to us because they want to work from home and that's like ultimately the main goal. Well, some of our other clients are less, less worried about that and they're just more involved with like being able to decide their own hours, whether they're in the office or not. So for you specifically, like, what do you feel like is important to you? See, that's not bucketing, it's prompting of other clients. And then I re-ask the straight, like, question of what's most important to you? And then it prompts them to answer that question that way. And he gets them to go, when you ask what's important to you, he has to come up in his own head, in his own chest, and go, I want to work from home so I can spend time. So you don't have to say to him, because otherwise what you're going to get is a false sense of security on this call. Thinking he's agreed with all the things that make people emotional, but he's just agreed with them logically. And then when you go to book the call, he gets stuck with like low urgency.
Yeah.
You are covering everything. Your decision-making is excellent. You're, you're doing the things at the right moment. Like your, like your, your process is correct, but your execution of the question to achieve the objective is a little bit rusty, but it's like most people. It's fine.
That's something that makes sense. Yeah, 100%. I was working with Liam as well. That's something I want to like improve.
Yeah.
Um, I guess, how would you say I could get better?
So you need to sit there and you need to start thinking, how can I ask that in a Socratic way? You know, what, why, how, when way. And you need to start thinking dynamically and going, okay, I'm trying to— like most setters do this, they're trying to like line up, they just give the guy the answer, is this correct, sir? And then he's like, yes. What you want to do instead is go, how can I sit there on your sofa, whatever it is, and go in your desk, go, how could I ask an open question that gets them to say that?
Yeah.
And go, and you don't want to lead the prospect. You just want to go, if what you are doing right now is going, oh, so you're looking, so are you looking for more of the time at home with your family? When he said nothing to that effect before, instead say, okay, What are you looking to do with that time that you have, that you do get? Like, let's say you do it— are in the job. Like, what are you looking to do with the time that you spend, that you get? And then what would he say? I want to spend more time with my family. So you need to sit there and look at your current questions you're asking, which are bucket questions, and go, let's take it to, how can I get someone to answer that way? Instead of asking— you asking it that way. You know, and if you're really struggling, you can always do the prompt, which is just for context, some of our clients want X and some of our clients want A. But I guess for you specifically, what do you want? And this will prompt them to, like, answer how you want in the general category. Does that make sense?
100%.
So just make your calls a little bit more emotional, but I wanna really reiterate your decision making and when you ask the questions in the emotional pattern, And like the process, whether you wrote the script or not, your ability to follow that good— that's a decent process. Your decision-making is good.
What shifted for you recently?
Because there's the execution, but if you have great execution of a poor emotional pattern, then it's probably worse. This is better than doing that.
What was that? Sorry, you broke up a little bit.
I was just asking what shifted for you recently that sort of made you decide maybe to try this.
I will say one thing, you're— I don't know if it's suited to the offer, but like to be here on Fez, they're way more high, high energy because it's like getting a career change. These are like normies. You're like, what shifted for you recently to make you want to do something? You're like Terminator, bro. Okay, you don't have to be all happy chappy and like, oh great, what shifted? You just have to go, all right, and like, uh, I guess like, what shifted for you recently where you're like, maybe I want to make a change? You see, there's some life to that. Whereas you're like, what shifted for you recently? And if you don't show any curiosity, they're not going to think it's important to answer in a manner that satisfies that curiosity. So your tone is going to prompt how important the question is. So just like, I'll just put that as well, is tonality needs to convey the importance of the question. E.g., curiosity equals curious answer. Like, you know what I mean? Yep, yep, that's cool. And then another thing I just said is like, uh, avoid bucketing your questions, which is just, uh, giving the answer with, is it a bit of X, right? All right, instead ask Socratic, which is it gets the prospect— the Socratic question comes from Socrates. He always got people to answer the question themselves through asking fundamental questions like, what do you feel is important about the city of Rome or whatever it is, or Greece or whatever he's from. And it gets the person to think what they think is important. And on sales, it's not actually about what's important, it's what they think is important. Because people buy wants, not needs, right? They buy what they think is important. They buy what they think the product is. A great sales rep is able to frame the, frame the product in a different way to the all 5 people they speak to in that day. Is that— so you want to ask them, don't bucket it, don't say, is it a bit of helping and giving you the freedom? You go, what do you feel like would be the, I guess, the greatest aspect of having the skill and making the career change? And the guy's like, well, I wanna work for Google. That's like number one for me. Instead of going, well, family would be important. Yeah. But that was never his true dream. So you always wanna keep it open so the prospect gives you what's top of mind because of what's top of mind is most emotional to him. And that's what's gonna get him to go, yes, please book me in for tomorrow so I can piff lay down.
Yeah.
So instead, ask Socratic questions like what, when, how, etc. And this will give the prospect the floor. Another principle I won't write, but have you ever heard the saying in sales, what you say is shit, what the prospect says is gold?
100%. Yeah, I heard that from Wildux.
It's kind of, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like that. Exactly.
Yeah, I was just listening to the podcast on it, um, just more to go into the AI era. Um, and I've listened to a lot of investment podcasts as well, and it seems to all be leaning towards that side, if you know what I mean.
So just— well, look, Michael, um, in reality, the future is now, man. Yeah, we're really seeing the growth of AI. We're really seeing what's happening with companies losing millions, sometimes even billions of dollars due to the automation.
I personally reserve, you can do this, by the way. But I personally would reserve this just before you make the booking.
Just before?
That statement. Yeah. Just before you make the booking, I'd say, well, can I share a perspective with you, David? Yeah, go ahead. The, man, the future is now. Everything's going AI and everyone's making fucking bank doing it. Right? So really, the next steps from here, if it's appropriate, is we can schedule a little bit of a longer call to talk and go deep into how we can potentially help you get into the space so you can get rich too. Obviously not saying that. Okay. So you can help me get rich too. So, uh, would that be appropriate or what do you wanna do from here? And that, that's, yeah, that's like, because you don't wanna do that. Do you know if you sit there, just a, just forget you know anything about sales. If you're a prospect and all you've had is a little like 2-minute discussion over the interest of AI and this person, this complete stranger comes to you and says, oh bro, it's the best. And you know that person's incentive is to sell you into it. Yeah. And you don't know that they care about much else. You, you're just gonna, you might get some resistance and, and sometimes really at best they'll agree with you. They'll go, yep. But they're not really emotionally bought in by it. Whereas if you've had a great call and you've, you know, you've done whatever's next, skip this, do whatever's next. Once they're cooked and you know by now they should be fully cooked. You can even do it before financial qualify if you want, bro, but just cook them a bit on future pacing. Without buckets? Like, and I'm imagining if this call is 12 minutes, there's, in this part here, there's some more conversation to be had, right?
It's, it's just me explaining. Yeah, we're just, I'm just explaining, what do you chat? Like the offers.
Okay. I would do this. Sell the mechanistic reasons the offer is so great. Like, do what you do and then do that. I advise, like, what do you do? You're not just grandstanding the whole time, are you? What are you saying?
Goal in terms of what we do here is to help as many people as possible regardless of the experience to still be able to make a couple thousand a week. I'm not sure, is that?
Yeah, do that first. Do that. Do you have the time commitment? Where would you want to be? How would it feel? How many hours do you have? All that like stuff that's in the middle of the call. I would come out of problem awareness and get success metrics or whatever you do, come out of problem awareness and then go into that. Go, okay. Ask some questions. Like, so you come out of problem, you do future. So you go like this: connecting, situation, problem, future pace, so that they get excited about everything, they don't get impatient around that 2-minute mark. Then start doing the logistical, do you have the time? And then at the end of all that stuff, and do you have the money, and do you have the time, is going to the ramp, the ramping, the certainty explainer that gets them— because at that point you can say it because you've built that much trust because you're in that part of the call with them. They'll believe it. Then it will also act as a ramp to get them most emotional just as you ask for the booking.
Yeah.
Okay. You see how that emotional pattern is more slightly more—
Yeah, it's effective. Effective.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So goal, situation, problem, future pace, spend time there. They feel good about it. They know you know what you, what they want. Then you can ask the boring logisticals and then you can do the, uh, AI is now, buddy. And then that's why we exist. And that's your bridge. That's why we exist to help people go there. And then you can do the, you know, bridge into the fucking thing. That's what I would do as a process. That said, I also want to caveat, if you don't change it, they're very, they're very simple, leanest approach for you is if you don't change this process that you do and you still continue to have that AI is now thing and your process looks the exact same, if you just change the way you're asking your questions, Yeah, it will make a massive lift if you just turn the questions a little bit more emotional and follow the same process. You would make, you will make more, more sales doing that. And then more of like the big change, which is it takes, you might even see like it depends how much of a difference that is for you. If it's not much of a change for you mentally and you can do it, then you will make significantly more money. But if you, if you struggle to make that change, you could see a drop in performance because you don't really feel comfortable where it will go in the beginning, and then it will lift. But, you know, when you change a whole process, you can go down 5% before going up 25%. Yeah, if you really want the, the no, the no-risk approach, bro, and you come away from this with nothing else, just, um, just even just these points here. That's just all I've written.
Yeah.
Otherwise, the more like big play is save the big FOMO AI is now part for just before you ask for the booking. Right. You know, that's an optional thing.
Yeah.
That's just how I would do it if I was managing the account.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
100%. Yeah, I've written some stuff down. So I do appreciate that.
A ton of it, but like, no, no, no, it's just shit that'll get you. I can already see where you can make some money there.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's a, that's a ton of value for sure.
Appreciate it. All right, bro. Perfect. Uh, sweet. Let me just drop my, um, Chris, I can, if you want to, if you want to follow up on some of the things, send me voice notes, whatever it is, ask questions. It goes deeper than that. Uh, I've just dropped, do you have WhatsApp?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Perfect.
I just dropped my phone number, my WhatsApp number in there. And you can add me on WhatsApp, just send me a message and then re-ask me some of the questions you were asking so I remember. And as soon as I get time, okay, I'm pretty busy with paying clients, but as soon as I get time, I'll just send you a voice note back and rip it and then it can close some of these loops. And then, uh, perfect. I'll let you guys go. I gotta jump in with the client.
Thanks.
Thanks, Jack. Appreciate it.
Thanks, Jack. Bye.
