You’re Using Your CRM Wrong (Fix This)

What's up, what's up, y'all? Can you hear me?

What's going on, Cash?

My camera looks like shit, guys. And why is my face all red looking? This is crazy. I haven't got my office set up yet in this new house, so don't mind me. But maybe we just switch over to my Mac. That's better. Other angle was crazy. Paul, how we doing? Mark, thanks.

Nice, nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you as well. Mark, nice office.

Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Thanks, Jordan.

Tim, what's that photo? They doing like that, the Dougie over here or something in that photo, huh? Paul, welcome. Clay, welcome.

Hello.

All right, y'all, um, we got an hour. We can jump into it. Anyone know what this call is about?

First time?

First time? Okay, sweet. Sweet. Sorry, I'm trying to take out all these. We will have a recording, uh, I just don't want all the note takers inside of here for this. All right, there we go. Sweet. Uh, Mark, are you, are you an offer owner? Are you a sales rep, a setter? Are you a construction worker? What do you do?

Yeah, I work construction from, from the office here, so No, um, I'm, I'm a closer right now. I'm on an affiliate offer. Um, we, we offer an affiliate mastermind, so with proven offers. Can't hear you now.

Can you hear me now?

Now we go.

Now you're not on my AirPods though. So weird. What about now?

I can hear you.

Why, why are you guys not on my AirPods? Of course my AirPods work 100% of the time until they don't.

Till you get on a call.

There we go. All right. I got you on my AirPods. So one more time, Mark, you said you were on an affiliate offer and then you kind of cut out of the—

Yeah, we offer an affiliate mastermind for agency owners, media buyers who are looking to scale their business with their existing skill set with proven and vetted offers already.

Okay, amazing.

Yeah.

George, what about you? What's up, man? Welcome.

Thank you. Yeah, first time on the Q&A. Um, as far as what I sell right now, I'm selling career coaching, um, but it's a part-time job. I just transitioned out of, uh, my first offer, so I'm looking to look for other opportunities.

Amazing. What about you, Paul?

I'm just starting to get into buying houses.

Okay, wholesale or deals like, like normal real estate? What will come?

Yeah, like wholesale, distressed.

Okay, amazing. We work with a lot of wholesale clients. Isaac, welcome. You were on last time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, cool.

Well, welcome. Welcome back.

I'm back. Yeah, I'll be here.

Tim, Clay, Paul. Sweet, guys. Well, let me kind of break down a little bit about what this call is about. So I have a company called RevPilot and we specifically do sales systems, right? So revenue operations, sales systems, everything from AI to pre-call process to CRM, on and on and on and on. So we specifically are talking about kind of sales process related things. Now, it doesn't matter if you're a setter, sales rep, an offer owner, right? It's like, how can we help you guys make more money by reducing friction in your sales process? Right? So Regardless if that's, hey, I hate doing admin, how can we, you know, make myself do less of this? Or, you know, how can we speed up call reviews? You know, what kind of pre-call should I be sending? And it's going to depend on the offers as well because, you know, some of the offers you guys might be on might be absolutely crushing it with their sales operation and they got a bunch of cool stuff happening while other people may have, you know, absolutely nothing in place. And you guys as sales reps are just kind of trying to figure it out with them, right? So Jason, what's up, man? What kind of coffee you drinking? Are you a tea guy? No, it's coffee. It's just a pour over I got at this coffee shop here in Vegas. Just a pour over, my man. Yeah, pour over is the way to go, sir. I'm in solar, by the way. I didn't get asked. I was hurt. You showed up late. That's why, dude. I just saw this thing. Well, welcome. You sell solar like on someone else's organization. Is it your company or you kind of like an agent? So it used to be 1099. I'm W-2 now just because the law changed in Las Vegas, but I'm a self-gen rep.

Okay, sweet.

Awesome. Well, what kind of questions do we have about sales process specifically, if any? What do you guys want to dive into? I'm an open book. We can talk about whatever. Talk about surfing if you want.

I'm in Nicaragua, so, um, I was hoping to have a bit of a map to show you this week. I probably have something for next week, but, uh, I, uh, since I've been on your website, I've been getting your, uh, your remarketing on Facebook, and, um, let's go.

Love it.

Yeah, yeah, here we go. And I was, I was kind of keen on mapping out the, the kind of customer journey and how that works with AI bots. And I'd be curious on your thoughts as to kind of a bit of a mud map or a bit of an overview on, on that kind of stuff, like a bit of a blueprint in terms of what their journey should be. I don't know if I, I don't know if I said it last week, but I'm a sales leader for a financial company that does like business coaching, financial planning, and wealth. We have a marketing agency and we have accounting as well. So we kind of a whole bunch of stuff around the same avatar and they kind of come in for all different, all of the different offers. But currently the way, the way that I've got it, they'll get tagged as a new lead. They drop in, I send them the, I have like an SDR, AI SDR that starts to kick in and it starts with a getting the compliance message out the way, like as soon as they opt to do the opt-in page and then they go in and do a scorecard quiz on ScoreApp. I don't know if you've heard of that. And then once they finish the quiz, I hit them up with the bot and I'm like, hey, this is, I'm Ashley, the team coordinator here. When would you like to speak to one of our experts? And we start conversationally booking them in from there. And then if the bot doesn't do it, then it will go off to one of our setters.

Okay. Are these opt, like opted in, didn't book? Like they already had the opportunity to book, but they did not choose to book. At that time?

Yeah, that's probably one of the points of friction is that they finish the quiz and then they can self-book. There's a calendar there on the website, or, and then, but also at the same time, they immediately get reached out to by the SMS booking bot.

That's fine. Yeah. That's fine. As long as it recognizes, like, if they do book, because that part is annoying if I'm like, in the middle of booking, I get a text message and then I schedule and then it's like, well, like, when are you going to book your shit? You know, it's like, yeah, I already booked it, you know? What do you mean?

Yeah, I was getting tripped up with that because they had, they had Acuity calendars out in the wild and I couldn't track them all down. And now I've got everything in DHL so that it now it's reading it. So it's like it knows if they're booked. Yeah.

So what's, what's the question, I guess? So you, you have the agent, right? It's, it's messaging. What would be, you say kind of like the blueprint, but yeah.

Yeah. So there, so that's, that's getting a portion of them. My, like my biggest goal for the whole team is to get them from lead to second call booking. So like the, that bot is booking what we call a, like a breakthrough call, which is like your, your triage call. And then we have a game plan, which is like the closing call. And so from lead to closing call, I think we're at about 25%, which is pretty low, and we want to get it up to like 75%. So that's probably the problem to solve here is what I'm trying to lead to.

Okay.

Yeah. Take me through that though, real quick. So they book or they don't book. Eventually they book the breakthrough call. That's your triage call. We have the triage call.

Yeah.

But then you're saying they don't end up on the closing call. Is that because they're not showing up after they've been booked, or is that because we're not setting them? Like, I guess I'm confused.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's cool. So the including the breakthrough call. So I think I might need to get more visibility around which specific stage they're falling out on because it could be from, say, scorecard being completed to breakthrough call. That might be the first, like, drop-off point, whether they're actually booking that first, first call, or it could be from the breakthrough call to the game plan call that they're not showing up or they're not actually being booked for the game plan. And so that could be, could be like an avatar or customer fit kind of thing. But my whole—

Yeah, you got to focus on that. Yeah, yeah. Find out. Yeah, you got to find out those two numbers because like if you look at the whole thing, you know, we could be like, oh, like optimizing on the back end, but like 99% are like not booking the first call or vice versa. You know, most of them are booking a call, we got really good metrics on that front end. But then, you know, they're just not showing up to the second call, which really is just setter behavior problem. Like, you know what I mean? That we need some setter coaching because if they're setting a bunch of appointments that don't show up, it's something that's happening inside of that conversation that would trigger that to actually happen.

Yeah.

Which are like two completely different problems.

Yeah.

So yeah, I would just find out of, of all the leads that opted in, how many booked a breakthrough call? What is that number? And then of all the people that had a breakthrough call, what is that actual set rate? Right. So how many ended up being booked? And then what is the show rate of the actual second call?

Yeah.

Because then you can look at the set rate to the show rate and just see, see what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a money question. I know, a money question, but yeah, we do need clarity, you know what I mean? Because if, if I answered it without knowing those, then it wouldn't be much of an answer at all. It would just be information.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, that's cool. So yeah, yeah, that's probably my first step of the question is to get the ball rolling for everyone. I'll sit back because Paul could handwrite anyway, but I'll see if I can pull out some more clarity and data and we can come back to it later on.

Yeah, even high-level numbers will get you close enough, you know. Paul, what's up, man? You got a camera? I don't know if he has a microphone either. I can't hear you if you're talking.

I think there's two Pauls.

The Paul with his hand up.

Yeah.

Is there two Pauls?

Yeah.

No, I'm in twice.

Oh, there is two Pauls.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, so first, how do we run—

here, hold on one second, Paul. I'm gonna kick out— can I kick out other Paul? Yeah, kick the other one out. We're just gonna put him in the waiting room. There we go.

You're on mute, Paul.

There we go. Uh-oh. There you go.

All right, so first, how can we run goals and projections when we're running a high-ticket variable offer, and it's like the offer, like, all over the place. And because our hit rate is low, but when we hit, it's a, it's a big profit. Like, my boss is asking me, yo, yo, give me some projections on, like, no, how many people you're going to have meaningful conversations with, how many you're going to book appointments, you know, how many you're going to get the next step. It's really hard on, on big-ticket sizes. What do you recommend?

It's a great question. Did he educate you on how to do that, your boss?

Well, he says, like, track your calls, like every call. No, no. Like, say you have 100 dials, you had 8 pickups, you know, 6 of the people were just curious, 2 of the people were actually interested, right? And then you went to see those 2 and, you know, one was like, oh, I'm going to bring in a broker. And one was like, let's go further, right? That's That's how the data breaks out. Is it just gathering history over a long period of time?

Yeah, it's a great question. So the reason I ask is obviously there's a lot of ways you could do it. That's why I was asking, has he shown you the specific path? In my opinion, a good manager probably should show you exactly what you should do. Right. But If you are kind of just wondering, you do need historical data to be able to give any type of projection, right? Otherwise it's not really a projection, it's just a guess. So I guess the question would be, what is the difference between a projection and a guess? A projection means you have some data to aim a target at something that's realistic, right? We want a projection to be plus or minus probably 20 to 30% of what actual goal is, right? So we probably want to shoot, I like to shoot above it, right? So, you know, if we're shooting for a 30% close rate, then I probably want to be shooting for more like 42% or something would be like my actual goal. I'm going to end up closer to 30%, right? But if we have no historical data on what a close rate should be or, you know, what any of these metrics should be, it's going to be very tough because, you know, yeah, I can hope for a 40%, but I'm going to be very disappointed when I hit a 10%. But 10% could actually be good. You know, then that's, that's where it's, it's tough because you, you don't want to aim for something that, you know, like if we didn't know the difficulty of climbing Mount Everest and you're like, yeah, I'm going to go climb that mountain and then you find out how difficult it is and no, you know, it's, it's like, so in short, you need some historicals. What you can do in the meantime right now is exactly what you're doing, write down everything. Things. Take the time to do it. Um, I know we're all salespeople here. I'm like an ops and a sales guy, so I hate manual data. I hate entering data. I hate it. Yeah, but if— but we like making money, right? We like making money. And until someone automates it for you, this is going to help you make money, you know. So write it down. Um, takes a couple minutes a day. Be diligent about it and it will help. So, but yeah, I would get at least 2 weeks of data before really trying to make any assumptions on what is or isn't possible one way or another. Every— another suggestion there, I would go to whoever else, like if you have team members or anyone else that you can reach out to, that's doing a very similar thing, I would get their benchmarks.

Yeah.

Okay. So this really leads me to my second question. So right now it's only me out in the field. So how do we figure out, oh, an SOP so that we can make this buyer ready so that we can bring in another person? Um, like that might or might not be experienced in this industry?

I would join a wholesale community. I only say that because we have— I mean, I've ran Pace Morby's, all of Pace Morby's teams, Emil Dangy and Astro Flipping, all of those guys' teams. Um, yeah, I've ran a guy named Chris Jefferson, which was a big wholesaling officer, office, or off-route in like Atlanta. Um, so there's a lot of great communities that can help you. I'm not a wholesaler, so it'd be very difficult for me to like, you know what I mean, tell you how to wholesale. My business partner, her boyfriend has been wholesaling for 15 years now and he crushes it. Me personally, I don't wholesale, so it would be tough. I do know as like because we have a lot of clients that have wholesale offers or they are wholesalers, I would say that the primary things that stick out to me when helping them build out a process for themselves, like in a CRM, is total dials and the amount of dials, right? Like you gotta dial more than other people. You gotta be more consistent than other people. So you gotta get 'em on the phone more often and have more touchpoints. The third would be lead quality. So, you know, where are you getting your data from and how good is it? Because ultimately, if this room is full of wholesalers here, like, what's going to separate us? There's only really 3 things that could separate us: skill on the phone, volume, or data, right? So if you can do those things the best you can, the better you're off you're going to be. But I would recommend trying to find a wholesale community. There's, there's like a ton of them out there. You know, that if I was going to do wholesale, that's the first thing I would do is find— like, this community is amazing for sales. It's going to help you a ton. I would go find a wholesale community specifically also that's going to help you, you know, write your contracts and all that other stuff. Anyone in here have a wholesale community that they can recommend? I don't know, might be a wholesaler in here. No?

Okay. Thank you so much, Jordan.

Of course. Yeah, Paul. And post, post in the post in the main group. Like there's, you know, I can send over some recommendations potentially on what groups, but if you post in there, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that have recommendations. So, Nassim, what's up, man?

How you doing, my man?

Good. Are you on an offer? Are you a DJ?

No, bro. I was just making dials before getting on.

That's funny.

Um, I, uh, so what's it called? Um, so just kind of like, I guess like from, uh, systems, and, and I'll also be curious to know, uh, when, you know, it said systems and mindset training, what maybe the mindset aspect of certain things, uh, yeah, look like. Um, but I guess like, uh, just, uh, I mean, how do you feel like what question do you feel like would be most effective for me, uh, to ask you in trying to, uh, maybe like achieve a goal?

Yeah, um, it's a, it's a great— I don't even know if you call that a question. It's a great like question inside of a question. Um, what would I ask myself? Um, so On the mindset piece for the sales rep, this one's tough, but truly admin work is like the— I mentioned it a minute ago, no one likes admin work. Like, I'm an ops guy. Like, I don't like admin work either, man. I got ADHD. I don't have time for this shit, right? I run a company. Like, I hate inputting anything that I don't need to. I, so I get it. Now, a lot of reps, I don't know how you are at, you know, submitting your end of day reports or filling out your numbers or tracking your own deals. But the reality is, in a lot of sales organizations, is that you don't have the tools to be as successful as you can be.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Like, you don't have them. So you have two options, essentially. One is wait, wait on the organization to tighten up their systems or to get a better end-of-day reporting system. That's what a lot of people do. And I see a lot of sales reps struggle and then they end up switching offers because they think, oh, this place is a mess, right? Systems here suck. You know, I hate doing my end of days. My manager's on my ass all the time. So I switch companies. Guess what? The next offer is worse.

Right?

It's even worse. The systems are even worse. So, and the reason I say this, and again, kind of the mindset piece here, is that it is a necessary evil of what we do. And just like if you're playing football, just like if you're playing baseball, especially baseball, you know, if you want to go play professional baseball, understanding the numbers is everything. Like, it just is, you know. How many at-bats did you have? How many hits did you have? How many RBIs did you have? You know, how many times did you get on base? You know, how many doubles did you have? Like, like, you are judged based on your numbers. And same with sales. So you can only get better with practicing the skill set and then also understanding your numbers so that we can decide exactly what to work on. Um, so what does this mean for you guys? Um, I think just writing down and journaling your, your metrics, your, your daily numbers, very, very important. Also pipeline reviews. Uh, and this is something that we, we tend to get complacent and I'm guilty too, guys. I got to— I'm— I sell sales operations, CRM services. And if you went and looked at my own CRM, sometimes you'd be like, dude, this guy doesn't, you know, you know, it is what it is. So one of the best things you can do is, is go directly in your CRM, go dig through your pipeline, right? Like there is money sitting in there that you left on the table. I guarantee it doesn't matter who it is. You know, there's a couple of deals that fell through the cracks. You know, they're maybe a month or two old and, you know, they should have closed. We just did this big audit with, like, Jeremy Miner's team and there was some leads in there. People were like, like, literally like, I'm trying to pay you, like, can you just respond? You know, which is crazy to see. But until you go dig for it, you would never know. So that's the one piece of mindset I'm pretty passionate about it because I've also managed sales teams fractionally and there's nothing more frustrating, I think, from a sales manager position than sales reps that are struggling. But then they come to you as a manager and say, oh man, I'm really struggling. It's like, cool, well, what have you done? You know, like, have you— like, what have you done so far? Did you ask for help? You know, like, I would have so many people that'd be like on the verge of getting fired and I'm like, They're like, oh, I can't believe, you know, I was like, well, yeah, dude, have you ever even sent me a text message and said like, I'm struggling to close these deals? Like, never, you know?

So, so like, I'll just ask a follow-up on that, Jordan. Do you feel like, so from like a mindset perspective, is it more about like, hey, listen, like, you know, make sure that you are doing the things that you need to do in order to kind of like, you know, make sure that you are making progress and advancing, or, or is it also kind of like just kind of like how to be positive maybe in the ebbs and flows of business and things of this nature. Like what, you know, what's your— I guess which way do you view it? And I would also ask like maybe if you do have some insight on the other part of it, you know, to share some of that as well.

Yeah, it's a great question. So it's kind of funny because I feel like they go— to me, they go hand in hand. So How do we deal with the ebbs and flows of sales, right? How do we stay positive when maybe it just feels like everything is going wrong? One of the best ways is the numbers, right? Because if we understand our numbers well enough, we have 7 bad calls in a row, we understand that it's going to average out, right? We know that it's all going to work out. And I don't know if there's any faith-based people in here, right? But like, if you believe in the Bible, like you just know it's going to work, right? If you believe in manifestation, like, you, you know that it's all going to work out before it does. You know, when you know your numbers well enough in sales, it's, it's very similar because, you know, if you just make 100 more dials, like, everything's going to equal out. You know, if you, if you know, if you take another 20 scheduled calls, it's all going to work out. Where sales reps really hurt themselves is when they don't know their numbers. And they, they begin to shift everything else, right? They— you change your script a little bit, you change your opener a little bit, you change your objection handling a little bit, you change your pitch a little bit because you feel like you're not closing the deals that you're supposed to be, when in reality you just have a couple bad leads come through, you know, and that's, that's 5 leads out of 50 a month, you know, or whatever it is, however many calls you're taking, you know, 30, 30 a week potentially. So what then you compound it and Cole Gordon used to talk about this all the time. If you ever had his trainings, like, you know, where, where we, we have a couple of bad calls, we're like, oh man, we're overanalyzing. We go look at our, you know, we start changing things in our script, we start changing things in our offer, then it gets worse. We're like, oh my gosh, I got to change something else, you know? And then it's like, oh, I suck. When in reality, if we just kept everything exactly the same, and we knew our numbers, none of that will happen. So that's a big piece of like how to stay happy in sales. Like, no, like, and who's the door knocker in here? Jason, or who is— Yeah. Do you knock doors? Yeah, I do every day. Okay, sweet. Doing it for 5 years. Yeah. So I bet there's some days out there you go knock on that first door and you're like, they open the door and they're like, you know, they're like, awesome. And you're like, holy shit, we've been waiting for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. First door magic, dude. It's crazy.

You're like 100 doors later, then you don't get anything.

You're like, yeah, yeah. There's probably other days where you go out and knock for 8 hours and everyone hates you, right?

Yeah.

So, but if we know that, if we know that, it's like, hey, it's— and I think it makes me think of Herb Mosey. I don't know if you guys ever seen him talking about him handing out flyers on the card. On the cars in the parking lot, right? So it's like, yeah, if you hand out 1,000 flyers, you're going to get disappointed, you know? But if you just knew that, okay, for every 20,000 I hand out, like 8x happens. It's a lot easier. Last, just to really hit this home, I think social media is another good one. We see these people go viral on social media, right? And we all know they always say, oh yeah, I had to do 150 posts. Before I got more than 10 likes on a single one. Right. And then I made that 151st and all of a sudden it went crazy and it's been wild since, you know, so it's kind of the same thing. Like, it's so hard to get to the 150th in their situation because they have no baseline to, to, you know, like equate to, you know, they don't have that baseline of numbers like, oh, if I just do this many, this will happen. You know, in social media, you're just, you're just like, I hope, I hope this happens one day. So, gotcha. Makes sense.

It does make sense. And I'll just ask, like, as it relates to, um, I guess I'll ask like another mindset question in specific.

Yeah.

Like, when you find yourself kind of like in a, maybe in a position where you are like just finding a challenge in, in regards to I don't know, maybe I like to name it positive expectancy, you know what I mean? Like, let's say, like, I'll just be specific with you. I'm in the, like, the, the life insurance industry, right? And like, I've, I've, you know, sold at a fairly decent, uh, fairly decent level. And so, you know, but then like I've also had like weeks where I've done like very poorly, uh, comparative. And that's not something that happens frequently. And so like when it just kind of like, when you kind of like get, you know, getting like hammered, hammered, hammered, hammered, and you almost kind of like the expectancy of like what you're gonna get on the phone is present prior to actually having that conversation. Yeah, bias. Yeah, um, like what would you do to flip that? You know, to maybe like a great question, positive expectancy or something of this nature?

Yeah. So, and that's kind of talking about what I was just saying is like you go into your next calls different than you, you would have normally, you know, because you are bringing some bias in, you're bringing some frustration in, you know, especially the guys who like take booked calls on their calendars and like sometimes, you know, you just have that week where it's just like shit, you're just like, this sucks, you know, like Everyone is a tire kicker. Everyone, you know, it happens. So how do you turn it around? My favorite is always going back to listen to calls that I previously had that were really, really good. So, you know, go, go back to 2 months ago when you were crushing it and just go listen to yourself. Not, not even what the prospect is saying, but like, what were you doing in that moment because it'll reaffirm what you should be doing. And then a lot of times you might even realize that you've navigated away from some of that stuff you were doing anyways, unrelated to, you know, just the, the natural slump that may be happening, you know. Um, but I don't think there's anything better than going back to older calls. And if you guys on this call are sales reps, setters, and you don't do that often, like, I think you'd be so surprised. And if you just go back 4 weeks ago and listen to some of those calls, you'll sound like a different person sometimes. You're like, holy, like, holy shit, who is that? You know, like, and you didn't change your script. Like, like you just naturally, like a little 1% change every day for 30 days, you know, and it's like you're selling completely different. So yeah, I like to go back in time, you know, kind of remember the good old days. Listen, listen to what I sounded like. Is really, really important. Beyond that, you know, I think every salesperson needs to just form some level of grit, you know, and your daily routine is kind of lame as that sounds, is huge. You know, if you add to the problem, it's only going to get worse. And I'm really guilty of that. Like, I love pizza and like, I think it was last week. I kid you not. My girlfriend's listening. She's going to give me shit for this. I was just having a bad week, man. So I was like, every night And I was like ordering a pizza, like eating pizza before bed, you know? And then sure enough, I wake up the next day and I'm like compounding my own problem, right? Like now the next day I'm like tired and it's just like, so that's one of the biggest things that you, you can't compound your own problem. Like if it's already a problem, just be very careful of compounding that, you know? And again, I try to be as transparent as possible 'cause I'm not freaking perfect, dude. You know, I eat pizza 6 days, 6 days a week. Like not even joking, 6 days.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Still fat as shit.

Spot on, brother. I appreciate it.

So sweet.

Thank you, man.

Jorge, or is it Jorge? It's Jorge.

Yes.

So, hey, ¿cómo estamos?

Bien, bien. Um, yeah, so a little bit of context. As I mentioned, I previously left my first offer in '19, so just kind of getting in the space. Obviously my biggest bottleneck right now is that I'm not on a full-time offer. I'm on a part-time, but there's consistent lead flow. So I guess for you, I want to ask, in my shoes, what would be like the highest leverage activities that I could do to land the right offers as fast as possible? Like, how would you go about that?

Great question. Not sending some of those wild-ass DMs that people— we all get.

Yeah.

Um, um, highest leverage activities I mean, there's a lot of sales communities, including the one you're in, you know, that, that are going to have job roles all over. Um, something I will say is it's always important, no matter what job, where you're at in life, is how can you make yourself the obvious choice. And this goes regardless if you're looking for a promotion, interview, it's like, how does Jorge make himself the obvious choice? So when you do get put in front of that, you know, that opportunity, you're the obvious choice. So with that, obviously being able to role play, I think is extremely— on the spot role plays. I just was helping a buddy on Sunday, actually. He's a good friend of mine. He's like, he's an aerospace engineer. And then he was doing fitness content and it just popped off like 2 months ago. He's like, yeah, jacked. He's jacked. But like, so he wants to do like fitness coaching. So he started like running this offer, you know, the social media is doing really well. So we were hiring potential candidates. For this role. I share this because this is a perfect example of what not to do. You know, we're on it. We interviewed like 4 candidates back to back. All of them, I kind of pulled out the, you know, hey, yeah, you mind if we like do a quick role play? And this was an easy role play. It was like, you know, let's just start at like the price drop point. Let's just go through like, you know, some objections. And this guy bombed. I mean, absolutely bombed. And then essentially said, well, you know, it's just like really awkward doing, doing these. I would be better. I'm like, oh my God, we're salespeople, you know, like we got to be able to roleplay, you know, to some extent, at least a little bit, you know. So in that situation, like it was like, man, like, you know, and he just been like, oh man, can I try again? Even that, you know, can I try again? And then like gone again, you know, I'm like, even if he sucked, but he gave it 5, 5 at-bats, I would have been like, hell yeah, you know. Like, good for this guy. So he did not make himself the obvious choice out of those candidates. So being prepared, right? Practicing. I would get, you know, if you don't have like a roleplay partner in the community, I would definitely get one and just, you know, practice different offers is really important. Anyone else here? I know we got some great like sales reps and setters in here. Any, any advice for Jorge as far as how to show up the best he can, and then ultimately where some potential opportunities might be.

Hey man, I, I found the Rep Select community is really good. There's a bunch of guys in there. Is that Ty Martin?

I think it is. Is that on school?

I think he does. Yeah, he does have a school, but I think it's repselect.io. I created a profile there. He's got a lot of, a lot of tips there. There's lots of job offers through there. You can connect with other reps and like do role plays together. I didn't end up doing that myself, but you can like upload a, like a candidate video for what you're looking for. That kind of blew the whole thing wide open for me when I, when I jumped in there for a minute.

Amazing.

Sick.

Thank you.

Rep select.

Um, I think what Jordan said about being prepared, um, and just, just knowing your structure and all that shit that way when they do ask you on a resume or on an interview, like you're prepared to wow them. Like that goes such a long ways. Even when you're in the role, like that would go such a long ways because like every company is going to have a way of, of doing how they do it. Right. But if you know your structure and you're confident in your structure, then just do what you do because you know you're going to close. Close the damn deal anyway, right? So that goes a really long ways.

Yeah, makes sense. To Jordan's point, so the part-time offer I landed was because of a role play, because I killed the role play. But the other, I think, 2 interviews I had, they were doing like a group interview, and so not every interview kind of involves role play. So like, should I ask the role player, or is it just more so like a hit or miss?

No, it's be prepared for it, you know. If you get the opportunity, awesome. Like, I feel there are different, um, There's different levels, right? Which is like you do have to understand how to be enigmatic and I can't talk, you know, on a group interview, you have to understand how to stand out on the group interview. And that's a different skill obviously than a really good role play, you know, and these are just natural skills like you're just going to have to get used to. You also don't have to be the loudest person in the room. So, you know, on a group interview, it's— that's really going to depend on the quality of the interviewer transparently. So if they're a really good interviewer, you can be silent the whole time and you'll still get to the next level, you know, because they may respect that. So it's kind of one of those things where just don't get caught with your pants down, I guess, is what I was saying and what Mark is saying, right? Is, you know, the worst thing you can do is have zero structure. And Mark, Mark has a really good point, which is the structure, because as long as you have your structure, it doesn't matter what you're pitching. You know, you could be selling, you know, fitness, you could be selling biz op, you know, it's like the same structure, which is really nice. People get, I think, caught up sometimes and they sell like one thing and they don't have any real framework for what they're selling. And then they go to sell something else and they're just lost because they don't know the offer details. It's like, make them up. You don't need to offer details, you know? Okay. So yeah, but yeah, Rep Select. And then, uh, shoot me a message on school as well because I have quite a few connections, um, of people that are like always hiring different offers. So, um, I'm happy to try to, try to introduce you. Like, I am by no means a sales agency, never will be, never want to be, but, um, I do have a lot of friends Appreciate that.

Also, like, improv training, actors, acting classes as well, like, just to get some foundational, um, communication skills. Like, they'll— stuff that you'll pay $10,000 for, you'll pay like $100 for a community acting class, and you'll be surprised just how much you can get into— get out of that as well.

Okay, interesting. That's a first.

Never heard that one. That was— yeah, that's awesome.

All right, awesome. Well, thank you guys.

We get the next, uh, I don't know any actors, but, uh, I guess I don't spend my time watching movies, but we're gonna see Jorge on the big screen one day. So cool. Uh, I don't know who else. Uh, Philip. Hello.

Yeah, so I am going into, I guess it's, it's not super formal, but potentially interview right now with, it's like a development construction, like new development construction firm. And it's I'm, yeah, from a systems standpoint, uh, what would you be looking for that they would have already set up? Um, my, my, so I'm in LA. My understanding is that, uh, their LA sort of office is a newer thing, but they're quite established in, um, the, the Northern California. So Yeah, what would you be looking at, like, for them to have set up, and what would be the kind of thing that potentially I could bring to the table from a sales standpoint to also bring new business and stuff like that?

Um, I guess I would need a little more clarity on that, you know. Um, At a high level, I mean, do they have a way to manage your leads? Like, you know, like, are you, are you using a piece of paper? Like, do they have a system? Um, the tough part about a lot of times internal systems with like larger organizations, I don't know how big this company is, even if it's not that big, you know, if they're not on like one of the big three, GoHighLevel, HubSpot, Close CRM, um, Zoho Monday. There's not a lot you can do. And it does get a little tough sometimes, you know what I mean? Whoever's selling life insurance in here has probably experienced that or solar also, you know, a lot of times they're kind of one-off CRMs like in-house built, not always the best. Philip, for you, I guess Anytime it's like a realtor or developer or something like that, I think what is important is, and anyone else on this call as well, is when you're looking for a sales role, it's not the number of what you could make, it's more so can they easily break down the math behind the opportunity is one of the best ways. To really get a good idea of if the offer is going to be good or not. A really, really good offer says, oh yeah, we're going to give you 60 leads on average. All of our people take 60 leads, they turn it into 15 booked appointments. Of the 15 booked appointments, our average order value is $12,000. So that means you're closing at this much, you're going to make this much, like at a minimum. Some of our top guys are doing this instead. Like if they can't break down that math, then it's like sometimes you might want to take a little step back unless they're transparent about it and saying, hey, we're a scaling company, we have no idea how well this is going to work. Like, you know, but you probably should also be getting some additional benefit in that if that is the case. So for you, Philip, it's like, you know, what, what is the math behind the operation, you know, and are they going to, you know, I mean, there's so many questions for me that I just wouldn't have without more context. Like, are they providing leads to you? Are they not? If they are, are you supposed to be using your own systems or are you using their systems? You know, do you know any of that at this point?

No, this is the— I think some of those— I mean, that's the conversations that's going to happen right now.

Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Yeah, yeah. So it'd be hard. I mean, if you come back next week or, you know, fire off a message and school, I can definitely point you in the right direction, but we do need that context, right? Of like, who's providing the leads? Where are they stored? What's the expectation on managing those leads? And then you can kind of make a decision there. I do have a lot of clients. I have one guy that sells e-com stores. He has a fulfillment company and he sells these e-com stores like $100K, $50K. A lot of them, they're really good. I guess. I guess.

I don't know.

I haven't bought one, but, but he, he came to us to build out his own CRM, so he gets like leads from them. He closes his own deals, but he hated like their sales process, so he just built his own completely and he crushes it, you know? So it really just depends. Makes sense. Sound good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cool, cool, cool. Andre, what's up, man?

I think Mark was first. No, I don't know.

Mark's not—

Mark, Mark's hand's not up. Or is it? It is up now.

Yeah, when I talked, I think it went down, so—

Oh, put it back here. Yeah, thank you, Andre. Mark, what's up?

Um, So I've been on this offer for like 60 days now. Started at the beginning of January. Um, the first 2 weeks were a little slow. We went to like a, you know, um, a conference, um, all together just to get exposure to the industry, which was great. Um, since then, um, we've talked, you know, about like close ratios and stuff like that. And like we came to the understood understanding that I would need about 50 calls a month month inbound, like booking, right? Um, since then, I don't know what's happened, but the leads have fallen completely off. Um, like month to date, I've had 9 booked calls. Uh, so we're way off on the math. Um, and you know, I, I don't want to blame the leads or be a little bitch or anything like that. So like, I've been doing a bunch of outbound to like set my own appointments to, to make up the gap. Um, which that's like, you know, working well and everything. But when I got hired, there was like two, two sales, like there was a sales team of like two people. And then when I got hired, I was the only salesperson, right? So they let them go, uh, immediately, which was weird to me. But I guess like what I'm asking is like, how do you know when like the offer's not figured out, then you're just kind of spinning your wheels? Why you wait for them to figure it out? Like, we have a marketing team and everything, which they're all like, you know, affiliates and media buyers. Yeah. You know, and we're running ads on Meta and everything for, for the inbound bookings. But like, for, for like the whole month, they have just come down completely off. Like, I have more days this month not taking any calls than I did take— than I had taking calls.

Yeah, that's a tough one. So, I mean, there's kind of like a couple different paths here. One, I always say I'm a big believer in like, I've never been one to like offer hop or company hop, right? I'm usually pretty loyal only because I, I have always kind of positioned myself in a place of learning, right, and growth. So there's been many times in my career where I did not get paid what I should have been getting paid, but I respected the people I worked with. I, I had a huge opportunity to learn and grow, um, and I did, right? That was the biggest thing. So a lot of those times I was okay with dealing with some of the headaches or the nightmares that were happening, the extra stress, like whatever it was, because I knew that it was ultimately shaping me into what I needed to be for my next level. So the question is always for me first, that, you know, like, is this an organization where you see the additional benefit? If not, and it's strictly like cash driven and there's no real additional benefits, then yeah, you really need to take a, take a strong look at ultimately what was happening before you, which maybe they're not going to be 100% transparent about, you know. Um, and then if you— and then, and then what is different? Like, what is, you know, if they had truly 50 cold book calls per month and that was like just normal something clearly blew up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's— you don't just drop that.

I don't feel— I don't feel they had 50 booked calls per month.

Cool.

So if you don't, then the— you know, and I, I'm all for like really respectful transparency. Um, that's always been my leadership style. Um, I respect when people address me that way as well, which is going into the conversation of like, hey, I totally— this is what I've experienced so far. And I just want to make sure I'm in alignment with you guys on what is actually possible and what's happening. And maybe we need to adjust our strategy together so that we can make this a reality. And just aligning, what is the probability of me actually having 50 book calls? Was that like— and then you can even put it on yourself of like, Was that just like a bad, a missed expectation on my part? Even if they said it was, you know, the expectation is like, did I misalign my expectations with that? And kind of give them the opportunity to be like, oh yeah, you know, we're really working on it. You know, like whatever it may be. I always go back to though, again, can you see a future opportunity? And do you think it's worth the risk? Because at the end of the day, it's 100% risk and reward. So is there a reward at the end and is the risk worth it? If those two don't align, that's always kind of my barometer. Like, you know, if those aren't in alignment, then it doesn't— you might want to change offers or explore different avenues.

Yeah, I mean, they're good dudes. They're good people. I know their head and heart is in the right place. I don't question that. I've been on other offers before where I was like, "Hell no, what is going on here?" But I don't question that. I just like, it's just weird. In 60 days, you said this and then now we're doing this and I'm the only one here. What really happened there?

Have you had that conversation with them though?

Loosely. Like I told them when I first got, um, when I first came onto this offer that like my biggest concern was like only having 3 or 4 calls a week. Like that's not going to cut it, period. Like at all. And they're like, no, we can ramp it up at any time. Well, we're 60 days in and it's slower than it ever has been.

Yeah. Well, probably a good time to have that conversation, you know, and, and Again, it's— I would never come at it, and I know you wouldn't either, just from talking with you right now. You would never come at it as an angle of like, oh, these leads are shit and I'm not getting book called and you said I would, you know. But it's like, hey, I really want to figure this out with you guys. But like, at the same time, I have a family to feed. Like, I have to make sure that like, you know, we're aligned on like the probability of this being a success because, you know, And then they have the choice to be honest or not. You know, and there's been times where I'm running ads and someone asked me that question. I'm like, dude, transparently, I have no fucking clue if this is going to work. You know what I mean? Like, this is a 100% toss-up and like, it may or may not work. Like, I'm obviously betting all my cards that this will work. You know, I'm spending $50 grand on ads, you know, hoping this funnel is going to work. But, you know, I would be transparent with you and that's the journey. I don't know, dude, you know, like, give us 2 weeks and we'll know more, you know? So yeah, but it is, it is, it's a tough one, you know?

Yeah. And I feel like we're missing the boat on like low-hanging fruit. Like we don't have any like VSL or anything when they book to kind of explain the process. So like people are coming in super low intent, right? And we could do things on our end to move that intent from like a 1 to a 5 before they even talk to me. Real easy.

Yeah. You know, so something else there, Mark, is like when I'm talking about like the opportunity, I don't know what you want to do with your future, right? Like, do you just want to be a salesperson? You know, like a lot of people do. Like, that's awesome. Like, but maybe there's a world where you want to be an operator, you want to be, you know, a marketer. And, and this gives you a really cool opportunity sometimes to, to start like doing some pre-call stuff that they've never done, you know, and bring that back to them like, oh, hey, by the way, guys, I started sending them like this pre-call asset, you know what I mean? And these people show up instead of a 1 out of 5, they're showing up as like a 6 out of 10. Like, can you, can you know, maybe we can add this like the funnel or like, you know, it's like so it does give you, I think, some opportunity to be creative in your sales process and helping them, you know, with this. Because I'll tell you what, I talk to a lot of really, really successful business owners all the time. And I have a lot of clients that are like, pay me a lot for consulting in other industries. In the info space, people are like, really are like, dude, killers, right? Like, they're— because there's a bunch of hustlers in this community, right? You go into like, some of these are like banking and like, dude, these companies are doing $50 million a year plus. And like, you're looking at the sales process and you're like, this is so outdated. It's so archaic. You know, like, what do you mean you guys aren't sending pre-call text messages, you know, like what? So yeah, so that's what I would say is, you know, if you see some opportunity there to help them and like, you know, help yourself at the same time, like that could be a cool opportunity. So, okay.

Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

Of course.

My head's in the right spot.

So yeah.

Andre.

Hey, Jordan. Have you worked on scaling any sales teams before? Or are you morally— yes. Okay. Um, I'm not at that point yet. I'm not even a sales guy, frankly. I'm an engineering background, right? But I'm trying to start my own business here. And, um, I'm of the hunch right now that there are some industries that the sales reps just kind of have to be a subject matter expert as well. And, uh, two-part question: are there any industries you as a sales rep wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole for that reason? And number 2, if that's not really a problem or it is a problem, I don't know. What's your advice on it in general? But like, what— how should I go about doing this?

Okay, let's break that down. So, because you, you, your first thing was, I'm, I'm thinking about starting a business and, and, and scaling potentially like in the future. Okay. Second part of the question was more like If I'm going to be a sales rep, what industries would I stay away from? Can you connect the dots or are they completely unconnected and they're just two different questions?

We're doing architecture, right? So I've been in this for about 2 or 3 months. All my best leads are obviously in-person referrals. I haven't been able to close much that's been ad-based. It's just a lot more difficult. It's a lot harder to bridge that trust. People want to hear that you're a subject matter expert, or at least that's the feeling I'm getting. Maybe my scripting is bad. And I'm thinking long term, like, okay, great. I do a good job. I start getting consistent leads with ads myself. Now I want to bring sales reps to replace myself. Are they even going to be able to like hold their weight?

Gotcha. That helps me a ton. Yes, it'll probably be a difficult-ish model to prove, not impossible.

Right.

Not impossible at all. But it will be a difficult model to prove as far as like, you know, running cold traffic and then convincing someone to buy a house, you know, like in a custom home or a custom building, whatever you're selling, but not impossible. And the in-person thing there is sometimes I think it's going to become a thing of the past, you know. So it's some people like I want to back up, like some people are going to be stuck in the past and that's how they have to do things. We know with AI modeling and all the other tools that we have nowadays, like it's probably worse in person to some extent, you know, or will be here soon, you know, compared to what you might be able to display in a sales conversation remotely. So and I'm not an architecture architect or an engineer, but I can see that. Now, as far as the subject matter expert situation, I don't think they need— no, they don't. They definitely don't need to be an engineer or an architect. Now, they still need to be a subject matter expert. A good example of this is marketing services. I coach in another community, a She Sells community, not, not Shelby Sapp. She Sells is like another one, um, really great community of, of, of women specifically that do sales. And one of the girls, um, is selling like lead gen services, but she knows nothing about lead gen, right? So she's brand new to it. So it's, it's difficult for her to speak about it because, okay, compared to like someone like me, if I was going to go sell lead gen services, well, I've ran my own business for quite a while. I fully understand and tried myself and failed on most of them of cold email, right? AI lead gen, cold calling, Facebook ads, YouTube ads, Google ads, LinkedIn ads, Reddit, right? So I'm able to talk more about the potential mishaps that they'll run into. When purchasing lead generation and why, like, my solution is probably better than going with all these other routes.

Okay.

But that doesn't mean I can't teach her that. It's just gonna take her a little extra time, you know, like I naturally would know that. So long story short, you would have to find a way to be able to communicate that process to them, you know, and help them understand what are the most common concerns, the most common issues, right? Because what people want from sales rep most of the time, especially in any technical or B2B environment, is they— anyone here read the book Challenger Sale? No? Fantastic book. Check it out. But it talks about the concept of like putting a new idea in their head, you know. So if you can find a way to like have that help the client have a light bulb moment, that's ultimately like a really effective way to do sales. The Challenger, you know, you get them the light bulb to go off, but you can only have the light bulb go off if you, if you at least at some level know what you're talking about. That makes sense.

Yeah, 100%. Um, yeah, I think it's just kind of from like an offering standpoint. When these guys get on the phone with like an architect and they can actually answer design questions as opposed to just like general know-how of construction and appear like a subject matter expert without getting into design, that would be a big disadvantage. You know, on our end, competitive disadvantage.

Yes.

And so it goes both ways though, because for example, in the coaching industry, something that's always funny is like the worst sales reps in the coaching industry are the ones that like want to be coaches themselves, right? Like because they end up overcoaching, they end up like trying to be a fitness coach and like, and what happens is, you know, you ever heard like the gap, right? Like where they want to, where they are and where they want to be. Like you can move the walls in or out, right? So when you're moving these walls, what they typically do is they close the gap too much. So they coach so much on the call that the walls come together. And then by the end, the prospect's like, oh, fuck, yeah, I can do this on my own. You know what I mean? Like, you gave me everything I need. Like, hell yeah, I'm going to go run through a wall. I'm going to go— I'll call you later.

Bye.

You know, I'm going to work out now. And it's like, oh, shit, you know, helped too much. So that's when it can almost be a disadvantage because you stop being a sales rep and you start becoming, you know, a, like an architect or like an implementer, you know. Alternatively, just to play devil's advocate, aerospace and like hot, you know, hot, like engineering. Like if you don't know what this part does on a rocket and you're trying to sell it, you know, it's probably not a very good— like, you have to be an aerospace engineer to sell some of that stuff. Yeah, Jordan, Jordan Park could not go sell that, no matter how many pamphlets I read or, you know, technical specifications. Like, you have to know that. So it is finding the balance. I think, Andre, where your sales process would actually benefit. Like if I was to structure this out, I would have front-end sales reps that are, that are salespeople.

Okay.

Then I would have just like a technical SaaS product. You have your engineers and then you have your sales reps and like they're partnered together essentially. So you would have one architect, right? Or one technical person to like 3 sales reps. So the sales reps are doing their jobs and then when they need to lean on them or when they need to pull this person into the meeting, they can at any time. Right. So, so now you only need one technical person for every 4 or 5, 6 sales reps. You know, you can figure out what that like math is instead of needing 7, 5, 6 architects, you know, or 5, 6 technical people, if that makes sense.

I was, um, I was gonna say, Andre, just with what Jordan was saying around, um, not overcoaching or overconsulting and positioning your sales guys as like they're the gatekeepers protecting the consultants. So they're just the right fit people. They're just making sure the people coming in are the ideal fit to actually speak to the consultants, and that's all they're doing. And they're just going through the checkboxes. Are you this? Are you that? And it actually, the frame shifts a lot when you're, when you're making sure, hey, you're not our worst case client, and are you our best case client? And that's kind of all the sales guys are doing. And then, uh, having that technical, second technical sales call as needed. Um, that's just a different kind of—

the second one being the closer. Kind of type of thing, really just the first line being setters. Is that kind of the dichotomy?

Even the closer can be a little bit like a, hey, is this the right fit kind of conversation? Yes, they're still going to get the money or like still let them through, but it's the frame, it's a different frame. You're not giving away value as a salesperson where you're over, like you're kind of almost selling your services too early. If you think the salespeople have to be architects. Just something to think about.

100%.

Our competition literally gives the design right off the bat sometimes, like shares the ideas. I've screwed myself a billion times by doing that, but they end up getting the sale. I feel like more often than we do, or at least that's my hunch, because I feel like we're not getting it to the same extent. So it's a product question as well, and it's so hard to find that, that, that balance.

Yeah, it's, it's a great problem to explore. I would, I would encourage you kind of what you're doing right now, just because someone does it a certain way doesn't mean, you know, you, you have to do it that way. Um, and, and, you know, but you do have to find a reason of like explaining why. For example, a lot of times, like, people want to hire our company to like to just go build like, oh yeah, we want to go build this thing. It's like, cool, we don't do that. Well, what do you mean? Like, I'll pay you to build it. Dude, we don't just build stuff, you know what I mean? Like, if you want us to come in and you want to hire us and we'll, we'll take a look at exactly why you want to build it and what we should actually build. And if they happen to end up being the same thing, Fantastic. You know, most of the time they're not because they're not us. And there, you know, there's a reason why people pay us to do what we do. But, but yeah, so it's, you know, I have to— I, it's like it's just not a product we offer. We don't build workflows, we don't build shit. We, we come in and we build you a sales system start to finish. That all starts with, you know, us architecting on the front end and doing a full diagnosis of what you want, where you're at, where you want to get to, and why we're doing this and what that looks like and planning out this entire thing. You know, so we don't do phase one only. We don't do pieces like it's you got us or you go somewhere else. Yeah, I hope you hire someone on Fiverr to go build you a workflow. So, but there are other people and the reason I say that is like there's a lot of other companies that do hourly work, you know, or project-based work and they'll do just that stuff.

Yeah, I appreciate it, guys. I guess I just got to reframe out of the design questions. They're really just asking for like validation, maybe trust that I'm doing what I'm doing. Um, yeah, yeah, I gotta get creative.

Think of like all the reasons that giving away the, the plan up front isn't the right move and kind of like use the other guys as the— and it's like the enemy— and create your own like little tribe where, yeah, we don't do that for a really good reason, and you want to come onto our side and, and like play the game with us, this is how we do it. And you set that frame really strong so they have to fit in with you if they're the right fit. And, and then that way it's like, this is a reasonably big change in process, um, and, and perspective. But I think that this is how you're going to win with this, or at least an option to anyway.

Yeah, it's exactly what Isaac just said, which is there, and, and there has to be a reason why you do it differently. And for us, the reason why is because we, we are usually this a lot of times, and this is just over like 200, 300 different implementations we've done, we're usually like the third 4th call, right? Which means we inherit a piece of shit. I mean, it's just a mess. We've had 5 other consultants or 5 other agencies in there building stuff. You got— it's all duct taped together. It's, it's almost easier just to completely restart sometimes. So, so that is why we only do the full thing because usually we inherit this complete mess. We got to go unwind everything. We got to figure out why this stuff was built in the first place. And then what is the desired state that we actually want? So we explain that on the call. Hey, this is exactly why we do this. And the outcome usually is the founder goes, yeah, dude, I know it's probably worse than you even think it is. Like, that's their feeling. Like, they know it's a piece of shit. They know that they've talked to 7 other people and had 20 different people working on it. And it's like, you know, so they're holding this thing and they know how bad it is, you know. So when I tell them, yeah, we won't just take this and go fix it, like, we'll take it, we're going to set it to the side and we're going to, we're going to, you know, design something how it should have been done the first time. So, yeah. And they respect that. Yeah, because no one else did that. Everyone else just took the ball and then put more duct tape on, you know?

Yeah, I got to figure out how that analogy perfectly fits in our scenario. There's some, uh, I got to fix this closer script, man. I literally have a closing call today and I'm just not confident with it in the same way.

I would fire it off, um, if you can. Like, obviously I don't know what, you know, what privacy concerns you might have. But I would pop it in into the— yeah, Mark, that does. I can hardly see it up there. That happened last time. But I would probably pop it into the main channel and say, hey guys, you know, I have this offer, like I'm struggling. Like I'm sure there's some people that pop in a comment on it, you know, and I'm happy to take a quick look at it too.

So I appreciate that. It's really nice of you guys. Thank you guys so much.

Of course, man.

Mark, a quick question, man, because you mentioned that book earlier, right? I got one credit left on my Audible account besides the, the, the Challenger Sell. What, what sales book would you recommend for me to spend that on?

Hmm. True sales book. Um, that's tough. There's a lot of good ones. Um, have you ever read The Greatest Salesman in the World? The Greatest Salesman?

No, no. That'd be worth listening to.

You could probably—

you—

that one's a really fun one to listen to and it's quick. It's like an hour long. I think total, like start to finish, you could listen to it practically every day. The greatest, but it's not going to be a technical book. So that's why I say it kind of depends on what you want. This one is much more, it's Augmentino. It's one of the most classic, like, you know, it's more of like a, I don't want to give it away because it's like worth just, I don't think I'd spend an Audible credit on it now that I think about it because I think you can get it for free. Okay. Potentially. Or like a dollar. I don't know. Sure. Challenger Sale is really good though. It is. I would say those are probably like two of my favorites. Challenger Sale and Augmentino's Greatest Salesman.

Yeah.

If you haven't— if you haven't done The Greatest— who else? Does anyone have The Greatest Salesman in here?

No, check it out.

It's pretty good. Yeah.

It's, I just finished The Science of Scaling. Uh, if you, if you haven't checked out that book, I replayed several parts of that book, uh, just to grasp the concept of it. Cause it just like, okay. Haymakers throwing at you, like checking yourself, like internally.

So it was pretty amazing. I got it right here.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I usually, is it by the same author that wrote Science of Getting Rich?

I'm not sure on that. I just had that book recommended and I dove into it. Okay.

It's pretty good.

Yeah.

Yeah, I read a lot of more, not so much sales books, but like that, The Science of Scaling, more broader entrepreneurial. The Lean Startup is a really good one I just finished not too long ago. Different books. I just reread Alex Hormozi's $100 Million Offer book, which is always a classic.

Johnny, is that a good one? I had that in my queue the other day and I was like, you should pull the trigger on that. But I felt like I wanted to read the physical book and not listen to it.

I mean, it's Alex reading the book, so it's kind of cool when like the author is reading like, you know, Matthew McConaughey's Green Green Lights, is it? Yeah, Green Lights.

Yeah.

If you, if you listen to that book.

No, I have not. I have not.

Oh, really? Isaac looks like he's read it or listened to it.

I just heard him promoting it on all the podcasts. I haven't listened to it, but I know that he, he read it himself. Yeah.

It's killer. It's, it's like, yeah, cuz it's Matthew McConaughey reading the whole thing. Killer book. Really, really good book. Maybe I dropped my reading list. I'm a big reader. I mean, I got a lot.

So I'm trying to challenge myself to read 2 a month this year. So one of them—

good goal—

kind of kill out here in the last week of the month here.

So amazing. Yeah. Augmentino, Greatest Salesman in the World, really good. Challenger Sales, really good. $100 Million Offers is really good. Um, yeah, I'll drop a list in the community.

Yeah, if I was going to pick a book, should I start with 100 Million Leads or 100 Million Offer?

Offer.

Offer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially as like a sales rep, I think it makes the most sense. Um, okay. Money Models, like, I think Money Models, probably the best one in opinion. Uh, I just finished. Just nice. Yeah, I just— shaping your idea around like, you know, because I have a company right now that like my margin, I don't love the margin on the, on the company, and we are actually restructuring like an entire offer right now for it. Um, just because, you know, 90% profit's better than 35%, you know. Right. So Yeah, but it's good. Money models are good because had I known some of this stuff before building a business, you know, I probably would have built the business a little bit differently from the beginning.

So interesting.

Save you some, some money and time.

Cool, cool.

But awesome, y'all. I appreciate it. If you guys need anything, feel free to tag me or shoot me a message in the community. We'll be doing these every single week. Again, it's kind of mindset. Honestly, a little bit of everything, but systems, different things. I might even— I'm a little more prepared to some of these calls with like an actual, you know, like if I was a sales rep, here's exactly the AI that I would be using, how I would set it up. You know, like I have a Lindy bot in here, which is pretty sweet. If you guys haven't checked that out, I would definitely check out Lindy. It's like a knockoff, not a knockoff. It's like a simplified Claude bot that, you know, it can't do what a Claude bot can do, but it can do most of it. So, but it's like a one-click login, which is really nice. So awesome. Clay, thanks for being here, man. I don't know who you are. I didn't get to talk with you, but I love your photo. And where is that?

That's Pikes Peak.

Pikes Peak. Yeah. That's sick. That is— you drive a car up it? No, I took the tram, but I plan to hike it at the end of this year or within the next 8 to 12 months.

Nice.

I want to take a street bike up it. Oh, that's crazy. As fast as I can. That's cool. I was just in Thailand racing street bikes for a whole month. Amazing roads out there. Yeah, that's a killer fucking quad to get up that fucking mountain.

Apologize for the cussing.

No, you're good. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. You would not catch me walking up that thing. No chance. Motorcycles, fast cars, dirt bikes, down walking, no chance. They do a race, like a, a foot race or, yeah, the Pikes, that's what I was saying. The Pike, the Pikes Place Rally is like, yeah, very famous. Yeah, very famous. I will say I did a hike, Acatenango, which is like a volcano in Guatemala. Super sick.

Right.

It's also horrible hiking, but once you're at the top, it's cool. So, well, I'm glad to be a fly on the wall. Yeah. Thanks for being here, Clay. Welcome anytime. We'll be doing this every week, so yeah, man.

Good morning.

No, thank you.

Looking forward to next week. Cool.

Cheers, y'all. See ya.