Interview with Ivo Verhaegh, Co-Founder & CEO, Powerhouse AI

Welcome to ChainTech, the show and podcast focusing on the latest trends in supply chain, procurement, and logistics technology. My name is Max Henry from the Global Supply Chain Council, and together with my co-host and special guest, we explore the personalities, startups, innovators, and industry players driving disruption in supply chain. From early stage to unicorns, And from cutting-edge technology to the people using it to help drive more innovative, agile, and resilient supply chains around the world. This is ChainTech. Hello everyone, and welcome to a new episode of ChainTech. I'm your host, Max Henry, from the Global Supply Chain Council. And I'm joined today by actually two co-hosts joining us. So maybe quickly, Chandan and Sandeep, can you introduce yourself?

My name is Sandeep Chatterjee. I work as a director with Deloitte, primarily take care of the supply chain engagements in Southeast Asia.

Hi, I'm Chandan Bejor of India, and I'm a freelance consultant with Nordic Knowledge Partners and It's good to be here, Ivo, you know, for a discussion. Over to you, Max.

Thanks again for joining us for this new episode of Chaintech as we continue to host some of the most interesting and exciting Chaintech founders and discuss the quick rise of supply chain logistics and procurement technology across the APAC region. So as we— I'm going to start the discussion with Ivo, our guest today. I just want to also remind you quickly about On chain tech dot net platform, where you can actually search for solution in the field supply chain. And also, if you're interested to hear about you know and listen to the previous episode, you can just go to chain tech dot show. So let me bring on our guest today. I'm very pleased to have Ivo Verger Verhag. I'm thinking about pronouncing your name properly. Sorry, Ivo.

No worries, Max.

You have a co-founder and CEO of Powerhouse. AI, and you're based in Singapore. How are you doing, Ivo?

Yeah, very good. Thank you for inviting me, Max. It's great to be here with all of you and looking forward to a great discussion.

Yeah, sure. So let's start with your background. We always start with that at our interview. Can you share with us where you come from? How did you get started? Maybe let's start way back when you were a child or student. And understand, you know, where you grew up, what did you study, and how did you get into your career?

Yeah, definitely. So I'm originally from the Netherlands. I grew up in a small town called Helden, about 6,000 people, close to the German border, also close to like a major distribution hub called Venlo. There I lived for my first 18 years, I think it was. Then I moved to Rotterdam to study at the Erasmus University. Background in international economics. And after that, started my first business actually on the side, which was not in the supply chain sector, was something very different, which was a platform for housekeeping called Noble Hive for people, giving them easy access to quality and flexible housekeeping services. Fast-forwarding a little bit, in between I had a couple of other jobs as a manager of incubator, I worked as a consultant, And about a year and a half ago, I participated in a program called Entrepreneur First. And EF is originally London-based, but they also have a branch here in Singapore. And they brought me here. So that's also one of the reasons why I moved to Singapore. And during the program, met my co-founder Kusyal, who is CTO at Powerhouse AI. And that's also where Powerhouse AI got founded. So about a year and a half ago.

How did you come up with the idea of founding this company?

Yeah, so Kushal has a background in robotics and a background in AI and computer vision. And one of the core conclusions he had from working for a robotics company for many years is that for many warehouses, robotics is either too expensive or not flexible enough yet to take over all the complexities of of all warehouse processes. And that's why we started thinking, okay, what if we make people better? What if we augment people with like robotic-grade technology, like for example artificial intelligence? And we started to have a lot of chats with people within the warehousing sector, supply chain sector, and we found that especially if you look at like inventory counting, inventory checking, still very, very manual job where the technology, where the background that we have could potentially add a lot of value.

So if you could summarize in just one sentence what your company is doing, what will it be?

Yeah, we support warehouses to get their inventory right in the fastest possible way.

Okay.

Sandeep, Shantanu, you guys want to jump in?

If you can look at it, I understand that you are into warehousing, providing solutions using AI. So if you can talk about a few customer problems and how this helped, it will be actually— it will help us understand it better.

Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll sketch just very briefly what the product exactly does, because we indeed support warehouses to get their inventory right, but a little bit on the house so the listeners know what we exactly do. So we have built application with which the warehouse operators can take pictures of their inventory. That could be pallets, that could be goods on shelves, that could be boxes. And from these pictures, we deduce what's in that picture, so what goods we have, and we count also how many goods there are, even the goods that aren't visible. Like, without going too technical, maybe we can get there later, we create some kind of a 3D model to determine, like, how many boxes are on a pallet or on a shelf. And as a third step, we also do your discrepancy analysis. So that's in very short what we are doing. With respect to customer problems, I think there are 2 core problems that we focus on. So if you look at like stocktakes, if you look at cycle counts or inbound or even outbound, there's inventory checks happening all the time. All the time. But it's currently very manual. So an average warehouse operator spends about, let's say, 15% of their time counting and checking boxes. So not moving them, but actually counting and checking them. So that's one productivity issue. And secondly, if you look at like globally, the inventory accuracy of an average warehouse, and this number really surprised me as well, it's like around 66%. So the accuracy on average, it's not that high, and there is quite a lot of time being spent on inventory checks. So those are the 2 core problems that we focus on.

Yeah, you know, actually, there's one more question I would like to ask Dr. Sandeep. If you are talking about the 3D model being built on, you know, AI, can you identify the product itself instead of the boxes wherein, you know, you can identify these are the number of products that is there in the inventory. Is it possible?

Yeah, so we use 3 different ways to identify the product. So of course your barcode scanning or QR code scanning, but if that's not— if there is— if a product is not labeled specifically, for example at inbound, that happens regularly, we can also read like text on a box and determine, okay, like we have product X because we have just read that, or we deduce like expiry dates or other like master data. from reading the text even if the label is not, not there. Does it answer your question, Shamnad?

No, more on specific, like if the product is like, you know, the needle, it's a product is like, you know, scale, can you identify it's a scale, it's a needle in that level of AI?

Ah, okay. We want to go there. At this moment, we are not there yet. It's an extremely challenging space already. Like this is literally state-of-the-art technology. And we start with boxes because most warehouses handle boxes. But we hear a lot of questions also from clients who say, yeah, we'd actually like to recognize more products than just boxes. Ideally, like individual pieces. On our roadmap, but we are not there yet.

So, Ivo, companies are using WMS solutions, I mean, the larger players. They have barcode scanning, they have RFID. There are a lot of technology out there which allows you to improve your inventory management and accuracy. Why do companies need a solution like Powerhouse AI?

Definitely. If you look at RFID at this moment, the issue there is you need to label each of your products or your boxes. We don't require that. So you just make a picture. And we can tell you what it is and how many. So that's a big improvement. So it saves the cost of the labels, but mainly it saves the labor of actually labeling your products.

Okay. So are you taking pictures? How do you do it? You're using drones or a robot has to go and stand in front of a shelf? How does that work?

We actually use a device that every warehouse worker is very familiar with. So that's like a mobile phone. It could also be like a warehouse device with a sufficiently good camera. But it's actually just you take pictures as if you were taking pictures from whatever. So you just take a picture of your pallet and that's pretty much what's required.

Okay. So that's done at pallet level, right? You cannot take a photo of the entire rack of your alley of Which is stuck up with pallets. It's done only at pallet level for now.

Yeah.

Pallet level or shelf level. So we have worked with a famous retailer for a while and they had everything boxes on shelves. So that also works. It doesn't necessarily need to be stuck on the pallet.

Okay.

Sandeep?

Yeah, let's talk a bit about your company. Again, talking about competition, uh, there are a lot of startups, a lot of companies which are doing something, uh, very similar. So how do you differentiate? I know this is a space which is ever-growing, but still, what are your differentiating factors?

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. So if we look at like our core competitors, or what we consider as being our core competitors, are of course barcode scanners like the like incumbents, but also like robots and drones. And we see like most new startups focus on the robot or drone form factor. A couple of things how we differentiate. Most of those competitors, they actually don't take the step to count. So they just scan a barcode and say, is the right product in the right location? But for most warehouses, they pick on the carton level or even at a lower level, piece level. So you actually need to count. You need to determine, is the right product at the right location in the right quantity? And we are taking that first step to get there. So that's the first differentiator. Secondly is flexibility. So drones are made to fly in between your racks. They don't work in your staging area, for example, which is constantly changing. A mobile phone you can take anywhere. So you could use it inbound, but you could also use in between your racking, like in a storage area. And thirdly, it's asset light. Right, it's a phone and that also lowers the initial investment. And we aim with that to make technology like this accessible to a wider range of warehouses and provide them with the opportunity to take a big step towards their digital future.

And if I have to understand, your thing is you take a photograph on your mobile and Does it get connected to some on the cloud, or how is it like?

How is it hosted?

Ah, yes. So, so a little bit on indeed the technology that we have. So yes, big part of the model runs in the cloud. So that means you take a picture and we send it to our, to our cloud, we process it, and we give you the answer back on the, back on the mobile phone. Why don't we do that on a mobile phone? Because it's really quite a heavy model and it would literally drain the battery or it would like reach the limits of the phone. So that's why we do it at our own— with our own servers in the cloud.

Let me ask you, do you integrate— yeah, sorry on that. And just to extend that question, do you also integrate with WMS?

So when you actually Yeah, so yes, we can integrate with the WMS so that you can run the program in 2 different ways, or the app. You can either integrate it or you can use it on a standalone basis depending on your personal preferences.

Yeah, Shantanu, just on a question, you know, the rather different one. I see profile you as economist from, you know, from banker, banking profession, then economist. and then come to a logistics side of this? Because I happen to have one more person who's the same kind of a process, who comes into logistics. I really find it amazing because, you know, earlier I don't see anyone coming into this profession as a logistic or going into warehouse operation from finance. So what made you think in that direction?

Yeah, so indeed, I'm from a different sector, but on the other hand, I've always had a relatively generalistic role. So I've always been active with, you know, like consultancy, process improvement, technology implementations, for example. So in that sense, it is very much in line with what I'm currently doing. I think what makes warehousing and supply chain in general very interesting to me is that it is one of the sectors with the highest potential for digitalization and improvement. And I think that's really appealing to me.

You're right. As you said, it's all about the finance, right? I mean, that's how you manage the whole warehouse. It's a cost which is being managed.

It's a cost.

Yeah, definitely. And there's so much improvement possible and that's really exciting.

Do you find a lot of responses that you get nowadays? Or how do you see yourself in the next couple of years?

Like responses, you mean, like if there is a lot of interest at this moment, or do I understand it wrongly?

No, your— the response for your AI software and also the demand which you're currently getting.

Ah, yes. No, for sure, for sure. And so we're working with a couple of— at this moment with a couple of like large multinational companies Really, yes, super exciting journey. And we get, apart from like, we do a lot of direct reach out, like in general replies are really quite positive. But for a starting company, it's always the challenge like, okay, when do you get to a point that people also find you? And I think that's also an additional validation that you're solving a problem that's relevant. We do get on a more and more regular basis actually companies reaching out to me or to my co-founder like, hey, this is interesting, you have an interesting solution, can we chat? Can we see if we are the right fit for your unique warehouse situation? So I think those are only really, really amazing signs that we are solving something relevant.

And Ivo, who are your best fit customers right now? Are you targeting the retailers, the 3PLs? People who actually operate their own warehouse or maybe they outsource it? Can you share with us what's your best customer profile here?

Yeah. So, 2 parts. So, indeed, like the 3PL players, but also FMCG sector, for example. So, or companies that do deploy or do need warehousing within their supply chain. We actually segment as well on some other factors. So we target the mid to large-sized warehouses. Why? Because they're often a little bit better organized than the very small warehouses. They have their WMSs in place. They have some kind of data foundation that we build upon. So that's important. And another selection criteria for us, or like segmentation criteria, is at what level do they pick their goods. So if a sizable amount of their warehouse. If they are picking on a carton level or higher, so carton or pallet level, then we are a good fit. If they only pick at piece level, that means you need to count pieces, then we might not be the best fit for stocktake or cycle count. We might be a good fit for inbound there. So these are kind of the things that we look at to see if we are a good fit for the customer at this moment with our current A medium-sized warehouse, how big will it be for you in terms of warehouse space? Yeah, like a couple of thousand square meters.

Okay.

All right. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

So let's end that and then after we go back. Yes, and go ahead.

Yeah. Let's talk about something about a company. Like when you started, did you have a bootstrap kind of a model or did you raise capital and If you have raised capital, what is your current funding stage?

Yeah, exactly. So we were, in that sense, fortunate to be part of Entrepreneur First. So when we— and we successfully completed the program, which meant that at incorporation, they were our first investor. The investment size was relatively small, but actually did give us sufficient funds to kickstart the company. Then towards the end of the year, we also became part of Y Combinator. Like, great community, very fortunate to be part of. I think it's extremely valuable for startups to be part of that. So they became a sizable investor. And apart from that, we have multiple other investors, either angels but also an American publicly listed company. With respect to funding stage, we are at this moment at the seed stage.

Yeah, do you think this is a scalable model? Because there's a lot of things which is coming in, like as I said earlier, there is something called wearable which, you know, you just have to wear a, you know, there's something like which you can just look at it and you get the inventory counted and that is integrated with existing WMS systems wherein you get the count.

Yeah. Yeah.

And also I would like to ask you whether can you get this data into an analytics point of view? Like if I want to run analytics on inventory model, how do I get your data into my existing systems?

So there's 2 ways. We can integrate with your WMS and then we just push the data in your WMS and then you can do whatever you want with the data. Second possibility is if you don't want to integrate or you want to take it step by step, is you use the solution as standalone. How do you get your data then? And you get it in an Excel sheet, and you can either upload that Excel sheet into your WMS or connect it to Power BI or Tableau or whatever analytics suite you're using.

Okay.

And so we touched upon the money issue. I would like to ask you, how do you actually— how do you make money? What is your pricing? model within Powerhouse AI? How do you charge customers?

Yeah, so our pricing has 2 different components. So that's a one-off at the start for implementation, and secondly, our second component is a, like, a standard SaaS model, so software as a service. So you pay per user per month. So with respect to pricing, this really depends on the customer situation. So there are a couple of factors that we look at. So first of all, do you need an integration or connection with your WMS? That's one factor. Secondly, of course, like the volume of users is a factor. Thirdly, does the client have specific requirements with respect to application workflow, for example, or do they want a feature that we don't have yet? That could also Contribute to the price. So these are like the biggest components that we look at when we make a quote.

So for setup fee, how much are you typically looking at? I mean, it varies. Can you give us a range?

It varies a lot. Yeah, it really, it can vary a lot. So it depends very much as well, like how much customization is needed or if it's used out of the box.

Is it hard for you to convince those companies which You know, you say you're talking to 3PLs and FMCG to actually go ahead and pay upfront for something which, you know, could be untested and they're not sure of the ROI yet.

Yeah, we do understand that seeing is believing. So also with like, so we're working with a multinational FMCG player at the moment. So there we start with a pilot. And that's a great way for an organization to actually learn, like, okay, how much value can it actually offer? And for us, it's also a great way to learn more about their use cases so that they can make an informed decision.

Okay, Sandeep?

Yeah, so coming to your company again, how big is your company? How many employees? How many engineers? Is the team global? If you can talk about it.

Yeah, so at this moment we are 6 people, 5 people in technology and 1 person in business, that's me. Within the technology team, we have in that sense 2 core competencies. So we have computer vision engineers and Android developers. And at this moment, we're also looking for 3 people, 3 additional roles. So if there are any engineers listening, either computer vision or backend/Python, that's— those are 3 roles that we are looking for at the moment. So feel free to reach out.

And where are your customers based out of, in Singapore or abroad, or how is it?

At this moment, Singapore. And we are also about to start with a top 3 3PL player in the Netherlands.

Okay, all right. So yeah, yeah, interesting. Yeah, Chandan?

Yeah, so just, uh, one more, uh, on your, uh, the percentage of accuracy which you said, uh, 97% is like, you know, it's a kind of accuracy that I would love to work with basically. So, uh, do you think you can even get into error-free? Because I mean, with wearable, I think they're clocking into 100%. So I guess this is where the whole 3% is coming into play. Do you think it can reach 100% with your—

Okay, can it reach 100.0%? Probably not. But persons or people are also not 100% accuracy. And that's kind of the thing that if we're looking at what challenges are we facing, is that a lot of people, when they first hear about technology, they truly believe that the people on the ground are 100% accurate. But if you actually look at the data, on average, it's between 90% and 97% accurate. Accuracy, where the most well-trained are more towards the higher bound, and and and and like the the less well-trained warehouse workers or like the more complex type of environments like go down around that scale. So will we be reaching 100%? Probably not. Will we be going higher than 97%? Yes, for sure. And and that's also like the more the application is used. the, the more accurate it will get. In that sense, you can see AI as, as a little bit like a new employee, so to say, that never gets tired, but that will like constantly keep on learning and keep on getting better.

Okay, you're right, you're right, 100%, because as I told you, any physical intervention physical inventory, which is manually done, the errors are more than what we saw in our wearable business. So wearable has reduced drastically the percentage of errors. So I do believe there is a huge market for the product that you're building. So anything that your investment strategy that you can advise?

I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly, Shantanu.

The investment, how are you going to build up? It's in a rapid mode or is it in, you know, slow and kind of need-based?

Okay, okay. No, definitely our aim is to grow quick. So at this moment, like, we are working with several companies on a POC. There will also be like a major 3PL who will be using it in production in a couple of weeks. So our first year, it's really about like building the application, getting it to a level that it is like ready for production. So like from a business perspective, it's a little slower. It's very technology heavy. And in the coming 1 to 2 years, we expect that to really accelerate. I think that's really a characteristic of of an AI-based company, more deep tech company versus like a more regular software SaaS company where that first period can be much quicker because technologically it's less challenging. So those are some core differences that we are facing.

Okay. I've got a quick question for you, Ivo, on the pros and cons of being in Singapore. When you're starting a logtech company. Singapore, you have access to decision makers from those large 3PLs and those end-user shippers. You probably also have access to investors. On the flip side, it's a relatively small market. It's super competitive with a lot of software and technology providers in Singapore. So you're facing a lot of competition. Your customers have plenty of choice and plenty of free trial, free pilots coming from those partners. So how do you see Singapore as a starting point for you to kind of expand into the region?

I think especially if you look at Southeast Asia, I think starting in Singapore actually is quite good. First of all, because it is a logistics hub. Secondly, also because it conveys trust to customers. Like Singapore still has, and that's really great. It's a stable country with a— also from a legal perspective, you know, like it's extremely fair. And that also conveys trust to clients. So even if you would go to like neighboring countries like Malaysia or Indonesia, when they see like, oh, it's a Singaporean entity, It actually is a benefit.

So no cons, no negative side of being in Singapore?

No, I wouldn't say that. Singapore is expensive to be in. So if you are in a position where you do not have funding or very little, then it might be a hard place to get started because your personal life And also hiring people is just a lot more expensive here. Yeah.

Okay. Yes, Sandeep.

Yeah, so if you look at it, uh, a lot of startups, uh, all across the world, even Singapore. So how does it— the current landscape look like in Singapore? I know a lot of things have happened in this part of the world in the last 5 to 6 years, but how do you look— how is the landscape and I know with the startup community, it's always good to learn from each other, of course, leaving aside whatever is my— so do you have a forum also where you discuss your problems, solutions, ideas with other founders of other startups?

Yeah, I've been extremely fortunate of having, having like being part of a very active community. I think EF really helped with that. I have some great, great friends who are building amazing companies that I literally chat to almost on a daily basis. And that would also be, yeah, really, that would also be really an advice to everyone who is starting a business. Like, make sure, like, being a founder is lonely, but it doesn't need to be. Go and become part of a community or create one. We created our own one and it's probably the Good.

What is your biggest challenge right now in your current growth or development of a company? You know, what would really, you know, keep you awake and give you, you know, headache from time to time?

Yeah. I think in general, you know, the aggregate of challenges makes it challenging, right? As a founder, you are You're constantly busy with things that you have never seen before, and you will have to learn and you have to deal with it. At some points, it could be sales. It could be things like, okay, why is the reply rate so low? What is happening? Is it our product? Is it our messaging? What should I do? Or it could be fundraising. Oh, like the market is— It's happened to be a little bit more challenging than a year ago. You know, how should I deal with that? So there's constantly at every stage, there are things happening or hiring. And what if you indeed have a colleague that is not performing? What do we do about it? Or, or what if certain specific skills— and those are also things that we are facing, especially computer vision engineers, it's quite of a niche, right? It's not very easy to find. and find also a good cultural fit, et cetera, et cetera. So it's really the aggregate of it. On the other hand, yeah, as a founder, you have to get comfortable with it, or at least try to get comfortable with it. So for me, that means also focusing on things outside of work. You know, like life is a little bit more than only the company, of course. So I do my sports like 4 or 5 times per week. In general, I don't compromise on sleep, really to stay productive during the day and to stay sharp. And I think every person has to find his or her kind of distractions or other factors in life to stay productive.

Is having a co-founder help you to kind of balance those issues and problems that you say? Because I mean, it's great to have a co-founder. A lot of people who don't have a co-founder would like to have one because So are you able to kind of spread those issues and kind of balance, you know, both of you can deal with it separately or together?

Yeah. For me, it's really a prerequisite to have a founder. I know some people like are best being a solo founder. I think it's great to have somebody in the company who is at the same level, who knows as much as you know about the company because being involved all the way from the beginning, to share experiences with and to help each other and to give different perspectives. So me and my co-founder, we often have different perspectives, and that's great, right? So, um, so that's, that's how you, how you get better.

Chandan, Sandeep, yeah, feel free to—

Yeah, as a founder, uh, what are the typical challenges? Which I know you grew up in Europe and then you relocated to Singapore. Again, Singapore is a country which is very, very open, and there's absolutely no discrimination. But as a founder, did you face some of these challenges? Typically it happens with— of course, gender is not the part here, but did you face any different kind of challenges that you are in a foreign world and you are starting something?

Yes. So in general, in general, Singapore is a relatively easy place to live in and to move to. So for me, it has been in general a very positive experience and I'm very happy being here. But yeah, there are some cultural differences, right, between the Netherlands or Europe, if we take it a little bit broader, and Singapore. A couple of things, for example, like one example, like all the way at the start, we just spontaneously went and visited warehouses in the hopes that we could talk to people who would work there. That's definitely not appreciated here. That doesn't happen. In the Netherlands, that would be much easier, right? Other things that happen also—

You literally crashed at the gate and said hi?

Yeah, pretty much. And then stuck at the security guard, stuck at the security guard. And there was no way to get past it. We were literally told, just look at the website. That wouldn't happen back home. Another thing, investors. So, and I think probably society as a whole, more risk-averse than back home. So if you're a seed stage company, you normally invest in the people, in the team, and in the vision. So there is not much numbers to show for, right?

Okay.

You calculate your TAM, your market size, et cetera, et cetera, but it's kind of very— it has nothing to do directly with your business. So what I've seen here is that all kinds of projections and numbers are often being asked. Well, those numbers can never be very accurate if you're very honest.

Yeah.

And that— those— some of the questions I got here, I would never get when I talk to a European or an American. investors. So yeah, there are definitely, definitely some, some, some differences in, in culture that we have to, we have to deal with.

Shantanu?

Yeah, as a startup founder, you know, there are certain things which we do on a daily basis. You know, it's what I used to do is like when I go to work, I said, what am I going to do tomorrow? Today is something new.

Yeah.

So because after some time you've done everything, So there is a scale-up and suddenly you say, you know, what am I doing today? I don't know what to do because it's all allocated. So have you ever felt some kind of feeling that what am I going to do today?

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think that would be great. I hope to get there because that means you have to have made yourself redundant and the company is running running without you. But as an early-stage startup, I don't think that should happen. It probably means you have to take a step back and think about where you wanna go and decide on, okay, how to get there. And then you will, for, yeah, I will guarantee you will have a very large to-do list and you actually have too little time to finish the tasks, yeah.

If I have to ask you again, uh, right now reflecting on your life, of course you started with something, you did something on the, uh, something in Netherlands, and you started something on you. So in the next 5 to 10 years, uh, what do you want to do? In fact, where do you want to take your company? I know, uh, it's, it's not like you take a crystal ball and try to predict Because with COVID I think we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow because we had the greatest lesson. But still, for any company, it's always a going concern and you always have a vision. So what is your vision for the company in the next 3 to 5 years? Where do you want to go?

Yeah, so we're actually aiming to create a virtual warehouse manager. And how do we do that? So at this moment, we are, we are creating a technology that is able to recognize goods, right? Starting with boxes, it can recognize and count goods. We're measuring that. But where we're going to take it is, apart from goods recognition and item recognition, also going towards person recognition, seeing where robots are going, just get to get a real-time view on what is happening within, within your warehouse. And when you get a real-time view of what is happening in the warehouse You can also measure what is going wrong, what is going right. And then you can actually advise on how to improve your processes, how to have these different actors within a warehouse, it being robots in the future, it being people, because people for most warehouses will still be a necessary factor, or other equipment, how to optimize these flows.

Okay. That's interesting. So you're looking to have a camera on top of a warehouse to actually capture the entire activity of what's happening, everything, including the movement of goods, the people, the robots running around. And so you can actually analyze everything.

Yeah. We analyze it, we advise, and then the Third step is that you also have to communicate it, right? So that the people on the floor actually know what they have to do. And that's what I mean with like this virtual warehouse manager. That's the communication part so that the advice or the analysis will also be translated into real action.

Very interesting. Okay.

All right.

Final question before we wrap up. Actually, I have a few more questions, but there's another big one. What would be the advice that you will give to a new founder when they launch more specifically a supply chain or logistics startup? One big advice that you will give.

I think I touched upon it a little bit, a question of Sandeep. Yeah, it's really make sure that you get, you create a community or become part of a community of founders. It has to be to me, been the most valuable to learn from, to learn from others, because there's so many challenges that you don't know how to solve or you have to figure out yourself. So it's— you will be much quicker and much better if you learn from people who have done it, or at least if you can talk to people who are facing the exact same challenge at the exact same time. That's— that would be my best advice. And that could be creating a community. It could also be Becoming part of an accelerator. I mean, there are some other pros and cons there, but like, yeah, really make sure that you don't do it alone.

Or it could be joining the Gentech community that we're trying to build as well.

For example. For example.

Okay.

That's something we're also trying to, you know, bring up as well to all those founders focusing on supply chain technology. Okay, I've got a few quick questions for you. Quick, I call it the quickfire questions. So let me ask you very quickly, cats or dogs?

Dogs.

Window or aisle?

Window, always. I like looking outside.

Okay.

Favorite action movie?

Oh, good one. Oh, I cannot say. Like, I saw Top Gun last weekend and I loved it. Then I sometimes think, oh wow, it would be cool to be a fighter jet pilot next to my job as well. What's your favorite sandwich?

Uh, you have good ones in Singapore.

Okay.

All right. What's the most used app on your phone right now? The one that you're constantly using all day long?

Apart from WhatsApp, it must be Google Maps, I think.

Google Maps. Okay. What are you looking for?

Uh, I just love to know where I am and what, what, and yeah, where I live. So one of the The things I've done when I came to Singapore first is just looking at the map, find a nice sky bar, like where I can see like the whole city. So that I kind of know where I am. I really love to, yeah, love to get to know the country and the city.

Yeah. All right.

Singapore is not that big. So you should probably be able to—

It was not that hard.

Okay.

Exactly.

What's your favorite tool to build your company right now?

My favorite tool.

Yeah. Or software that you are using to build Powerhouse AI, talking to you, to your team, to your customers. I don't know, maybe an internal software.

Yeah.

So we use Slack. It has been working very well for us. And personally, my notes are in OneNote. So for me, OneNote is also a tool I don't want to miss.

OneNote. Okay. That's interesting. Okay. If you could describe the rest of your life in 3 to 5 words, what would it be?

Hopefully adventurous. Yeah, adventurous, like filled with new experiences. For me, life is about having experiences either at work or private.

Okay, great. Well, thank you very much, Ivo, for joining us today. It was a good interview. We wish you all the best for Powerhouse AI. It looks like a very interesting solution. And again, we know through our ChainTech community, we'll also be happy to support you in meeting the other founders that you want to meet. I want to thank you also, Sandeep and Chandan, for joining us today. Thanks, guys, for supporting me with those questions. We could cover a lot more, but we need to wrap up. So thank you, Ivo, and we'll see you again next time.

Thank you.

Take care.

Thank you. It has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you so much.