7 Millionaires Asked Me How to Get Rich(er)

Everybody in this room is making between $1 million per year and $12 million per year. And we just talked for the last 60 minutes on how to scale their business. Enjoy. All right, so you got neuropathy. You're doing 5 million a year. What's the model done for you? Scheduling. Okay. Regen. Okay. Is that local neuropathy stuff? Yeah. So diabetic dinners and all that? Jazz dinners and. Yeah, familiar with the model. Okay, so then what's the. What's the. What's the big play? Our. We're niched pretty well. Like, I think we're probably the biggest in our niche. It's a smaller group. Meaning, like, there's maybe 2, 000 doctors that do neuropathy specifically. So. And we have 160 of them. So it's not. We're still. There's still a huge potential for us to. I think we get 300 or 500 or thousand, maybe. I don't know. What's the end goal for you? I'm just cash. Okay. Yeah. No, I asked because it's like, is it to build it, to sell it? Is it to have? Yeah, I mean, I think selling would be cool.

It has to.

It'd have to go to different verticals. I mean, I'm like, I'm way too risky on the checklist. Oh, not necessarily. I mean, because the thing is, like, the ultimate version of the model that you have is like, you've got 160 out of like 2,000 neuropathy clinics. Right. So you've got like, pretty decent, you know, you got whatever that is, 8% of that, like, pseudo of like, niche of a niche of a niche market. But those guys make how much these. These guys make a year? Like.

Between a million and five million.

Right. And so this is where this gets, like, way more interesting, in my opinion. So it's like you've got 320 million. I'm just using average. Right. Per year that you're driving in revenue. And it's like, man, I'm making five. I'm like, this sucks. Right. Of that you're like, how can I get more of that? And so the thing is, I think the ultimate version for the quote info and agency space that I know those are different things, but fundamentally they serve niche avatars that are B2B. The ultimate version of those businesses is roll ups of the customers you serve. Because if you think about what like a roll up does on how familiar you are with it, but like, you get everyone on the same marketing. You get everyone on the Same price points, get everyone on the same packages you get, basically you consolidate what everyone's operations are. And that's what the majority of super niche agencies and kind of info consulting, whatever you want to call it, do with businesses. So they do all the heavy work of integration but for what a rollup would do. And then they just say like, okay, I'll stop there. I just won't like actually push it over the edge and monetize the whole thing. And so like most of the physicians that I know hate being physicians, they do it purely to make money and want to be out of it as soon as possible. And so like selling them on the idea that like, okay, your practice does, you know, whatever, two and a half million a year of top line and whatever, 1 million in profit, that's awesome. And then you have your, you know, taxes that you're taking home 600k a year after that. Like that's great. But what if, and on your own, this thing could maybe sell for, I don't know, three million bucks maybe, like maybe if you're really, really, you know, we're being really generous. But if you were part of a group of physicians that were a neuropathy, you know, thing nationwide, we could probably sell for like your thing could probably sell for 10 million. And so all I'm asking for is a, you know, 20 to 30% slice of that, but times 160. And so obviously of the 160 you wouldn't do with all of them. I mean if you did, that'd be a monster deal. But like if you could get like 10 or 20 of them to roll together because they all probably do have enough, like enough profit together to be meaningful. So it's like if you can get the roll up to be like 10 to 20 million dollars in terms of profit, that would be a meaningful exit. That would be probably like a hundred to $200 million exit. And you have 20 to 30% of that. But then after that point you're now the guy who did that. And so then your whole reputation changes, your dynamic changes around pricing, your long term stick, all of that kind of stuff changes because it's like, oh, I'm the guy that can get you to here. And that's also the like get rich enough, you don't have to do this again, which is a much more compelling offer. Can I ask you a side question? Yeah, sure, you guys, when you switch.

To licensing, because I remember, I know.

OG flying around and then more or.

Less OG they were flying around for.

You and Then more recent, them doing it for. For themselves. Right. And I gave them the ads that we tested. Right. So the, the transition for you from doing it for them to doing it to them doing it themselves and you being a coach, I would never use that word, but yeah. Yeah. Does that work? Do you think that, that looking back, would you. Would you have done it that exact same way? Would you have switched to the licensing model and like. And is that what you're calling licensing? Yeah, I mean, because, like, we had ads that we would test every month and then we would just let everybody else use them and tons of people tried to use them that weren't our. Because they would copy the gyms that we had ads and they'd like, I'd have ads. Gyms using my face to run ads for their gym. It happened all the time. So would I do the model we had again? Yes. The reason that we didn't do done for you was two things. One is or like, the reason do it yourself for your avatar doesn't work is that they make too much money. A gym owner, the value of learning the skill exceeds their current skill. It makes more sense for somebody who makes $35,000 a year to learn how to market and sell than somebody who makes a million dollars to learn how to market and sell. They've already leveled out of that in terms of like, because they can pay somebody less than they make to do this for them, whereas the gym owner can't. It makes sense for them to learn that skill. And then from the reason I didn't do a roll up is because group based service, there's zero. There's zero market for it. No one wants to buy them. If I had been in a market where people were buying for like, for sure I would be. I would. That would have been the model I would do. Yeah. Out of respect for I'm gonna rock and roll. Does that make sense? Sweet.

Yeah. So we do permanent holiday lighting that's ran off a smartphone on homes and businesses. My question, I guess would be, or I guess our constraint is we have no revenue retention. And so we've dabbled with, you know, maybe doing like a maintenance plan, you know, where we upsell people, things like that or, you know, having paid subscriptions in our app.

So who's your customer? Most of the time it's kind of a.

It's a healthy split between like elderly and then like people who want to keep up with the jones.

Okay. And so the light. So tell me more about, like, tell me more a little bit More about the product. Just have a better understanding of it.

Yeah. So basically we install aluminum track system into their existing soffit and it's got LEDs and so you can do any holiday, game day, or accent lighting.

Is that like the Philips Hue type. Type deal? I don't want to like oversimplify what you're saying. I just want to make sure I understand it.

It's kind of like that.

This is much bigger, cooler. What's the average ticket?

About 5,000.

Okay. How do you get customers?

Through Facebook and I guess meta ads.

But ads, you're doing paid ads and you're local?

Yeah.

Okay, got it. How many locations?

Just one.

Okay, one location. What are margins?

We're about 60%.

Depends on the season. So you make, you make a million bucks, you keep 600?

No. Well, we checked about 51.

Okay, great. You're doing half. Awesome. What's CAC? 300. 300 bucks for 5000 LTV. That's great. Okay, so. So a couple things. So if you want to get revenue retention, you want to measure how long you been in business.

So I've been with the company for a year.

Okay.

About two years. First year was just, you know, that product's out and stuff.

Got it. But do you own it?

Yeah.

Okay. Got it. Okay. You said been with the company side. It was like, I don't know what that means. I've been with acquisition.com as well. Okay. So again, if we're thinking about this from a revenue retention perspective, one is, so you install this thing for the lighting. What else do those people want? Like, is there anything else you can add on top of it? Because like, you have to keep up with the Joneses. I'm sure that during certain seasons they want to do other razzle dazzle things. And so like you can, you can assemble and then disassemble things multiple times a year for seasons, for Super Bowls, for things like that. I don't know if that's too different from the type of lighting that you currently do, but like, it's not too different.

No, I get people asking all the time if we'll do their trees or if we'll do, you know, other stuff that's not permanent.

Yeah. So I would see the impermanent lighting as like, you run two to three seasonal campaigns a year. So I'll bet you Easter would be one. If you're in Utah, I'm sure that'll be big. Christmas will obviously be big in Utah. And then, you know, pick your third date maybe. Maybe Halloween's not as big in Utah. I don't know. I'm just messing around. But even if you had, you know, one or two cracks at the apple, cracks at the apple, whatever bites of the apple every year on top of that, that keeps you top of mind. And then like when you go there, you're like, hey, we also do it like we'll do a standard double check. Is everything working okay with the lights? And it gives you upsell opportunities, but you still like generate other revenue. And then when they want to replace, it's like, hey, did I tell you about the new lights? Because these ones were old. Now new ones are. Oh my God. Let me tell you. Let me show this thing on my phone I did for your neighbor Susan down the road. Hers looks sick. Didn't know if you're interested in that. So it's like those become ups opportunities and instead of saying like it's recurring, it becomes reoccurring. So it's slightly different. So like Coca Cola has no recurring. Basically no recurring members, like memberships. But we buy Coca Cola products all the time. So we have reoccurring. It's reliable revenue. It's just not on a membership or a subscription. And so basically all you'd have to demonstrate to make the company a lot more valuable is simply having the data to track that. We sell a customer for lights and we sell one out of two another thing every year, whether that's an upgrade, maintenance fix, or it's lights that we do for seasons, like if we can just show that half the people continue to buy something from us every year, that still makes it a very valuable business. Does that make sense? That'd be it.

So my name is Cameron. We do residential real estate flipping in the state of Missouri. We did 15 million revenue last year for 3.7 gross before overhead. So 2.5 after. You take into account our team.

15 mean like the. How much the houses were when you sold them and then the three.

Yeah, we sold $15 million. Yeah, that was like house sales price.

Got it.

Okay. The profit on each project was 3.7, which is. It helps us tell how well we're doing on the projects. And then you take out our team, you end up with 2.5. Like EBITDA. I guess I was trying to think of the constraint all. All week. You know, zero revenue retention got highlighted in the thing. But for us, I think it's going to be that I would. We've kind of captured the market we can capture which for what we do is a driving radius like, we've, I would say, dominated within four hours of where we're at, which is like you drive four hours to a house to evaluate it, and four hours back, your day is gone.

Yeah.

So we're kind of at a push or pivot moment of, like, do we. We do no advertising. It's 95% foreclosures, and then, like, a few word of mouth. So do we pivot? Would you say to the rest of Missouri, like, almost franchise out? Like, get four little. Like, find other big cities and try to get the rest of Missouri. There's probably, like, four quadrants. Or would you go into marketing? Because I know. I mean, doing 95% foreclosures, it's like we don't control our income of properties whatsoever. And we kind of have, like, that. That one funnel.

And like, if foreclose, like, if the economy gets good, then you have no deal flow.

Exactly. And so now you're, like, constant through Covid. Foreclosing was literally illegal in Missouri, and we made 2.7 that year. So somehow we made it happen. Like you said, it's just a lot freaking harder. But there's ways. So I don't know if it's a push or a pivot. I would say that's our main. There's things we can improve on, but that's, like, the one that keeps us up at night right now, let me.

Just say, what's the goal?

We have a mission statement, and it's to make sure that all houses within our reach are at their highest and best value, because we don't see a house falling off the market as a good thing. That just makes other real estate more expensive. I know the goal is not necessarily to ever sell, so it would probably be to expand, I guess.

Okay, so. So, you know, path one is you just go to another city. And I wouldn't necessarily call it franchising. You just expand. It's just like opening another lighting thing. Like, that's. You just. That's just the normal way of things. Like, if you just get better and better at it, you open another location. I see that as another. Another set of skills for you, which I think will be valuable. And you could, in this time, like, if it's. Basically, there's no point. I mean, you could go in Missouri, but you could also do any other market that you'd want. Because if you're. If you're going past four hours of driving now, you're in, like, flying range, in which case, pick the right city, you know, like, pick whatever city you want to go to, you'll also go into a city that's going to probably have competitors, you know what I mean? Which I see as a good thing because it means like, the more competitors there are, the more of a market there is. As long as you're number one, then more for you. And so that's how I. That's at least my perception. Like whenever people are like, oh, there's a ton of competition in my market, I'm like, that's awesome. It means there's tons of buyers. And so just side note there, but. Cause the alternative of this is like literally changing the entirety of your business.

Exactly.

Which I would like. You're doing well with it. How long have you been doing this?

I've been doing it for eight years.

Yeah, dude. You've already paid down like all the ignorance debts. So like you're at this point you're like here on your curve. Like you're like right here. And so it's like, well, don't jump back down to like here again.

Right.

Don't go there. Like there's an ultimate version of this. And so what's the. Who's the biggest wholesaler in the nation?

The biggest wholesaler in the nation. Is it. We buy ugly houses, probably. I mean, there's a lot of them.

Okay, so what do they do that you don't do?

A lot of advertising. A ton of advertising. Paid per click. Mailers is huge. Billboards. We do none of that.

Yeah. So I'll bet that there's still way more deals even. Probably even within your current market.

I think so.

And so I would probably, if I were you. So either. Either you have to replicate what you're currently doing in a new market, but you have some of the risks that you've already brought up, which is like you're all inbound based on foreclosures and you have some of these other things you're not. Like, the income's not necessarily reliable. I would definitely learn the advertising stuff for your own business because like, whenever there's an ultimate version of the business that I'm currently in, it's like, they already did it. And so now all I have to do is do it better than them. And whoever built that business is already gone, probably. And so it's just a bunch of suits who don't know how this business works. And so it's just ripe for us to just murder them. I'm just being super honest. Like, this is how I see it. And so I think I would just like go 100%, try and pants them and do PPC and also do some of the stuff. They're probably not doing well. They probably aren't doing social well. They probably aren't running, like, not as well as they could, obviously. Their billboards, I know the billboards that they run, but I'll bet you they've got great sales training and I'll bet you've got. They've got great floors of people and kind of infrastructure in place. And so I would look at that. I would look at their overarching model as well, because I'll bet you they get a piece on the back end as well, because they probably vertically integrated as much as they possibly could within the business so that they actually make more in every deal than you do. So they can spend more on every deal. Like, they can pay more. Like, so they have ways to beat other people in all these different markets because they're national. Right. And so step one would be start advertising more because then they'll just immediately make more within your current market. Like, that would just. That might double your business if you just did that. And then number two is I would analyze the living hell out of them. Like, that's what I would do. And then think about, like, okay, this is, this is the future version of my business. One, can I replicate it? Two, is there anything I can do to make it better?

100%.

I definitely wouldn't change my business for sure.

I think that. I think your advice is dead on. It's just what I'm afraid to do because I don't know how to do it. It's like, I'll just go do it in different cities, but I guess I got to learn new things.

Yeah, darn right. Yeah. Well, maybe we can help.

What's up, Alex? So I'm Joel. I have a CPA firm based out of Bakersfield, California. But during COVID we went virtual. So now we serve all 50 states. I have a lot of constraints, but I think, you know, my questions would be, you know, how do you prioritize?

What's revenue?

Revenue is. Last year was 2.5. This year is probably going to be about 3 awesome margins. Last year, 900,000. This year net was. This could probably be about 1.1.

Awesome.

I don't know.

That's good. But I mean, you're running 30% margins.

On a. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Southern expensive waiver. So, I mean, I guess my question is.

Yeah, but it's a super reliable business. It's a valuable business like accounting Firms get rolled up left and right. There's tons of buyer activity there. Like, it's very. People don't churn out of their accountants. I mean, it's like, it's. It's very sticky. There's high ltv. The issue with accounting is most of the times there's no one in there who knows how to market and sell. That's usually the issue with accounting. Accounting businesses, it's like all word of mouth and no one knows how to, like, market.

Yeah.

And then the other issue is getting good accountants because there's so much demand for decent accountants. And so. But like, the accounting firms that I know of, like, all have. Like, anybody who comes here with an accounting firm almost always makes money. They're all doing well. So there's. There's big demand.

Yeah, for sure.

So what's the issue?

I guess one would be operations. Just making sure our clients are satisfied. Like, we have a short period of time to do all of our work, mostly during tax season. Right. So we get clients had certain expectations and their tax returns down and we're at capacity. But then, you know, obviously they don't want to pay a premium sometimes. So I think we need to improve our sales process to make sure that we charge a premium to get them that value that they're expecting.

So do you mostly have one time a year customers or.

Usually we charge quarterly.

Okay.

For quarterly tax planning, is it more.

Businesses or more individuals?

Businesses.

Oh, great. Okay. Well, that's. I mean, even better.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

I mean, our minimum fee Right now is 1950 a quarter.

Okay. What's your annual stick?

Annual stable. Remember?

What's your revenue churn annually?

It's not as good as I like it to be. I'd probably say we keep maybe 70%.

Okay. You probably want to. Yeah. You want to get over 80. I mean, for. For accounting firms, like, you probably can do a little better.

Yeah. So I think it has to do with just also making sure the clients see the value, because after we give them, like, certain tax strategies, they're kind of like, oh, I kind of learned this. Now I can find a cheaper accountant sometimes. So even though there is that stickiness, you know, they're. Especially some business owners will be like, oh, I kind of saw the value. What you guys did last.

I'm not sure I buy that. I think what someone says on the exit versus why they actually cancel aren't necessarily the same thing because, like, I already got the value is like, literally what everyone says when they want to leave anything and it's just because, like, they just want to leave. Because, I mean, I. What you want is, I mean, fundamentally from an accountant. You want somebody who will get you to pay as few taxes humanly possible and keep you out of jail. And that's pretty much. That's pretty much the. That's the task. Yeah. And make it as little work for you as humanly possible for that to occur. And so, I mean, just me having been a consumer of many different accounting firms and accountants and employees who are, you know, who did that stuff for us, I don't. I don't buy the, like, we taught them the two or three tricks. Yeah. Also, I bet you a bunch of your business owners aren't even, like, close to it. Some of them are bigger and, like, aren't. They're just like, yeah, just pay the bill. I don't really care. Just make sure it's right. So I would bet that you probably have bad onboarding.

Okay.

So basically the expect basically the delta between what they're sold and then what their experience is in the first handful of days and weeks going into it, and then the communication cadence between touch bases. They probably see limited value there. And so I think I would give you the same kind of like, if I were like, buy 100 of your business tomorrow. I would audit the sales process, the handoff. Like, I would bet you there's a massive amount of opportunity there in terms of, like, how can we take more notes on every customer? Because I get pissed off if I feel like I'm talking to somebody. They don't know much about my business, and I'm paying them $8,000 a year to run my taxes.

Right.

Immediately I'd be like, oh, yeah, fuck you. Like, I know you can't be looking at, like, I can just do back of napkin brain math of, like, if you barely know who I am, you definitely don't know how to save me money on my taxes.

Right. And we do have an onboarding process, but there might be a disconnect between the sales.

Well, we already know there's a disconnect because you said there was. So this is me. This is me trying to help. So I would go really deep on the onboarding process, which is like, how can I really tighten this up both in terms of the personalization of the communication and how can I speed up the number of times you communicate with them? Because you want frequent communication as long as, like, it's pushed so it's not me asking for shit, you know, because then I fucking hate you. Right. Like, but if it's like, hey, just letting you know, we ran this today. This thing is moving forward. Everything's good. Nothing for me. Just keep you in the loop. And then two days later, hey, we also ran this thing. XYZ is done, and it's moving forward to the next step. I'd be like, oh, shit, they're doing stuff. And so, like, I tell this to everybody, but no one does it. And so this is me telling you, and hopefully you will do it. But, like, if you do 100 things, you want to let them know every time you're doing one of those things on their behalf. And they're like, dude, these guys are working for me all the time. Like, this guy works his ass off. And then someone else is like, well, they're doing it for 8,000. I'll do it for six. And you're like, oh, no, these guys work their asses off for me. Like, I'm sure I'm safe. Like, no one actually knows. It's kind of like when the guy comes to your house, like, especially the nicer the neighborhood you live in. You know this. Like, he's like, I think I could do the lighting for 10 grand. I'm like, dude, you think I got this house because other people ripped me off? I was like, give me the real price. And then it's like, all right, I can do it for four. You're like, great, you know, or whatever. And so the thing is, like, no one really knows. They just. They just gut call on the fact that, like, my communication with this company has been crappy, the expectations are poor. And so if this is my external experience, I'll bet you they're not crossing their T's and dotting their eyes on my taxes. That would be my guess. And so I think if you get all of the other stuff tight, they will just guess that your internal stuff's as tight, which I hope it is. And I'll bet you that'll keep the stick, honestly. And, of course, accountants don't know how to deal with customers, so I'll bet you probably need to train them again on that communication cadence. So it's basically way more personalized, way more frequent communication, and then probably very tight training on how to have touchpoint calls with the customers. Right? Or clients, for sure. That'd be, like, the number one thing I would do. I wouldn't even do anything else.

I mean, do you think it's scalable, too? Because, I mean, my biggest.

Yes, accounting firms are scalable. EY, KPMG. Like, yes, they're scalable price. Yeah. PwC, those are publicly trading accounting firms. Yes, they're scalable.

What do you think about like one of the things you mentioned, I think yesterday is like, you know, the size of the brain, the biggest brain is as big as, you know. So I, I'm starting to now hire people that are smarter than me in other areas.

Yeah.

Like, but when it comes to accounting, I'm still like the smartest person.

Yeah. There's smarter accountants. I don't say there's a slide, I just say like, look at the guys that keep being like, there's some smart dudes.

Yeah. I mean I kind of want to hire like because I'm more of a CEO than I am a tax nerd.

Yeah.

So I'd rather hire like.

Yeah, go get a tax nerd. Yeah, yeah, you go recruit somebody from one of those companies who's like, I need somebody who worked at Enron who wasn't a bad guy, you know what I mean? And figure out like who can do like the real, the crazy stuff. Who knows the tax, like, who reads tax law for fun?

Yeah.

Like that's who you need because there are dudes who do who are like, oh, curled up on like, I know a buddy of mine who literally goes to the pool with the tax law. His kids are in the pool and he's reading it and I'm like, what is wrong with you? He's like, I just love this stuff. And I was like, I'm glad someone does, you know, like. And he's like, look at this hole. He's like, oh, I'm gonna crush this one. And he's like, he's like this is legal. He's like, he just like loves. It's like for him is like treasure hunting. So like you need somebody who's like that and if that's not you, then you should have somebody who is that way.

Yeah, for sure.

So yes, I agree and I think you should do that. I would say step one though, fix all the outside stuff. Step two, go get that guy. Because that stuff will make you more money today with what you already have. Then do the other thing. Right.

So newer SaaS company you helped inbound sales teams improve their or eliminate no shows, improve theirselves off and self sufficiency. I really think the most helpful thing for me would be just you running through really the major learning lessons you had from Alan in terms of red flags. But my background is high ticket education and for that whole state. So I think kind of Coming into.

It, do you have this technical co founder? I do. Okay. How good is he?

I spent 18 months fighting, so he's pretty good.

Well, that could mean that it just took you really long to find somebody who's bad. So like two years from now you're like, I shouldn't know. So it really comes down to like, has this person built a software company before? Yeah. Okay, cool. So fundamentally, like the entire game is different than the high ticket game. Right? Like, it's all about revenue retention, it's all about word of mouth. It's a product business. There's actually a podcast I just made. I don't even know when it's coming out about this, but, like, what business are you really in? And so like, when I got into Allen, I thought I was in the marketing and sales business because that was the business that I came from. But you're actually in the product business. So it has to be, it has to be basically like taking to its natural extreme. If people don't stick with it, it doesn't matter. So basically marketing and doing everything else, it's irrelevant. And so unless that's right, nothing else matters, basically. And so marketing sales on the front end literally only serves the purpose of making the product better until there's a point where it has what I would consider passive growth, where it grows on its own. And then you gas the living hell out of it. And then that's what makes gazillion dollar companies. Like, if you want low churn, you either have to go up market and find the people who don't churn out, or you have to help create the people who don't churn. So like the Shopifys and the Spotifys, a lot of IFIs here, there's going to be, there's cohort churn, which you're probably familiar with if you're co founders in this. So like you're going to have periods of time where it's like, okay, the first six months we churn out shit, 80% of our customers, but the 20% after that point, our retention curve's flat. And so you have to figure out, once you get to that data cohort, you're like, okay, what do these people look like? And, and then you readjust the messaging, readjust the marketing so you can get more and more of those people, so you get a bigger and bigger slice of them. And finally that loop is what you more or less focus on. And then I think about it from when I'm trying to reverse engineer the customer Avatar. It's like you have psychographics, like, what do they believe? You have demographics, what do they look like? Where are they from? You have geographics, where are they? And then you have kind of activities which is like, what did they do? So if I'm trying to reverse engineer what the people who spend the most money with me look like, I look through those lenses. Who are they? Where are they from? What do they believe? What do they do? And then I try and say in my ads, hey, I'm looking for people who believe these things. I look in the places that they're at and then once they're in, I try and get them to do the same things that the people who were successful, who look like them, who talk like them, who believe like them, did in order to be successful. So like in the beginning, you just do a ton of marketing to get traction in the door. And that's literally just so you can like, see if people like it, see where they're turning out, see, get. Basically you just want feedback. And then once you find what people are liking, what they're successful with, obviously iterate from a product perspective on the roadmap to do more of the stuff that core in terms of value. But then on the marketing side, it loops back and then that's what informs who you're picking on the front end, who you're marketing to. Right.

So you're being much more specific on the front end. Totally caught the people that start a problem.

Yes, yes. And the hard part is that your sales team won't want to do it and you will not want to say no to money.

Yeah, but I understand from a company perspective, that makes it possible.

But that's, I mean, fundamentally, like, if you look at Vista, I became friendly acquaintances with their head of pricing and packaging and he was just like, do you know who Vista is? So they're out of Austin, $100 billion private equity. They're. They'd be like the fifth biggest company, like, whatever. They're massive and they only they're private equity and they buy software companies and they triple them in three years, which is their goal, and they flip them. And so the founder, I can't remember his name now, I feel bad, is. Anyways, Rich did. I'll just put it that way. Point being, I was talking to the head of packaging and he said, you want to know our whole secret? And I was like, what, man? He's like, we just know our acquired company's customers better than they do. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, so we go into the data room and we look at all the customers they have and we look at what channels they came from. We look at who they are, how they act, all that stuff. He's like, then we turn off all the marketing that's not those customers. And we crank the living hell out of the stuff that is that. And we do nothing else. And the company triples. Obviously it's more than that, but fundamentally, like big picture strategy, that's what they do. We get more of the people who spend the most money, but people just aren't disciplined. And that's why people just stay poor, because then they try and serve too many people, too many different avatars. They can't say no to money today, so they don't get the big money tomorrow. Cool.

Appreciate that. Hi, I'm Arif Alex. DTC Fashion Brand Commerce Indonesia from Indonesia. Doing $10 million a year. EPIT $3 million. Been doing this nine years.

Thanks for making it out.

Thank you. How do I know when to expand? New product line.

What are you selling now? What do you sell now?

T shirts, shirt, pants, jeans, jacket. But mostly menswear.

Is it, what is it white label or a brand?

Say it again.

Is it your brand or is it your brand manufacturer?

I'm not manufactured. I suck. On to the other factory in Indonesia and then I only own the office and the warehouse.

Is it custom? Do you design it or you just slap your leg? You design it. No, that's fine. I mean, like, hey, I'm, I'm not. I don't do competition's competition. As long as you're not hacking their databases or anything like that's, I mean, that's the nature of the retail business. I understand it. Okay, so the question that you have is how do, how do you scale it? Or basically how do you add more?

I want to expand new product line. Let's say women's. Let's say sportswear because I'm doing casual only. Let's say formal.

I don't think at 10 million, you need to like, like you could do so much more even within that, within that, that demographic. Like if you're just mostly menswear, like there's tons of massive menswear companies.

Can I add to that? Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about that also. Because I haven't achieved 200 or $300 million yet. But isn't it, isn't it will make my brand two men who are later in life. So I'm not building enough foundation to capture the woman's letter in 300. $500 million mark.

500 million a month. That would be a lot. It's a tough call, man. I'll be honest with you. Because, like, on one level, I mean, if you're like, I want to build the next Nike, then, yeah, you're going to have to sell to everybody. But even Nike doesn't sell suits, right? Just like, like, there's so much. Like, there's so many people who buy so much clothing. And I mean, I think so right now, I think you're a little bit of like a brand identity spot. Like, you obviously know how to convert. I'm guessing, are you running ads? Yeah. Right. So, you know, like, you know, you know that game. And you run really good margins, I'm sure, on the, on the products based on. And you can, you know how to run. Run ads at scale. And so what I think right now is you have to figure out who. Who you want to become as a brand. So if you like menswear, then, like, you can be. I think you can build a massive menswear company. Just being real. I mean, just being really transparent with you. Like, you can build a massive menswear company. Also, like, Lululemon doesn't do. I guess they have, like, pants that are nice, but, like, they're all sportswear. So, like, I mean, Lululemon's a terrible example now because they've just gone to crap. But, like, like, if you look at these, I, like, like, I just. As a framework for everybody. Like, I look at what's the biggest version of the business that's currently here? Like, what did they do to get there? What does their business model look like? And then how many steps between where I'm at and where they are do I need to take? And, like, what lessons or what? What skills am I deficient in? And so then it's like, okay, well then those skill deficiencies become the opportunity. Like, fundamentally, that's it. And what their brand looks like and how they monetize. Like, are they vertically integrated? Or, like, if I was getting into the energy drink business, I'd be like, okay, well, Red Bull has outsourced literally everything besides marketing, so I guess that might be the most important thing for a consumer package. Good. That's, you know, RTD's are ready to drink and distribution. So it's like they have massive brand plays, massive distribution. You know, they have their recipe under lock and key, and everything else is. Is. So like, basically I would look at the brand. Like, is there a brand that you want to emulate.

Basically, I'm. I'm. What problem are we am I solving? Is just a billion dollar exit building consulting firm, and then that is a lead magnet to PE Build media, and then home troll Indonesia. Okay, so, my gosh, yes, I'll need a billion liquid cash.

Okay, well, let's take. So right now we sell clothes. So let's. I get it. I appreciate that. So I want to. I want to increase the likelihood to get there. So I think, like, you can make this thing very valuable without doing all of the other stuff that you were talking about. So I think, like, you absolutely can do this. And then think, okay, why can't I get this to $100 million a year selling menswear? Like, why can't I? And I think that way. Then it's like, okay, is there a brand person who can endorse this? Like, if you look at the biggest retail brands, they have big endorsers who stand next to the product. That increases conversion, increases the premium you can charge. And so instead of knocking off Zara, you just become a brand. And I think, honestly, I think that's the gap for you. Like, you're obviously very good at the arbitrage of media to clicks and whatnot, but, like, I think you need to go from that to building a brand, and then that's what will make it sellable. So this is what, like, that's the tldr of our conversation is that's what makes your thing valuable, is you need to build a brand.