Breaking Down Hormozi's $100M Money Models Livestream Webinar (with Jason Fladlien)

All right, dude, what is going on? I appreciate again, I had no idea you were doing a launch or webinar this week. So for you to jump on with me, I will do my best to help with the effort here.

Nice. Yeah, I'm a little hungover from the webinar yesterday.

Hungover from just literally the amount of talking or were you guys actually on the webinar?

I wish. I was streaky, otherwise.

I've seen that happen before. That's why I ask Justin.

Brooke actually told me, like, the webinar was the easiest part. We wrote the whole thing in three days, so it was like three 12 hour days straight. I was like, ah, good, I'll take it easy today. But just doing a bunch of podcasts, you know. Cool.

Well then I'm gonna keep it light with you because there's a lot of stuff. I just want to get to know you more too, because eventually, kind of what we talked at Webinarcon, I would love to actually work with you. So this really is just selfish on my part. I'm like, I just want to get a little bit of, you know, the flatline magic before I go and introduce you to the whole team here. But they already know, like your books in our office. Your LinkedIn profile says you're the webinar. Go. I don't disagree. I had Chat GPT actually give me the world's best webinar writer per year for the last 10 years. And you showed up twice in it. So. Yeah, I was, I was impressed. Yeah, two titles, I would say objectively by ChatGPT this time you have to get tomorrow.

I don't know.

But yeah, needless to say, dude, I'm just happy to chill with you. There is, I do actually want to know because I, I remember you were saying you're from the Midwest too, somewhere around the Iowa, Illinois border.

Yeah. Cool.

I'm from Illinois, so not too far. My dad went to Macomb in western Illinois. And yeah, I grew up around those parts. Where, where were you?

I know Macomb.

Yeah, you know Macomb. Interesting.

Yeah, we would wrestle all over Iowa and Illinois, so we get in that area sometimes.

Were you as far as like, were you in Mark Twain country?

Basically? I, I, I mean, Mark Twain used to write for the Muscatine Journal, which was the city that I grew up in. Oh, you grew up in Muscatine.

Do you know the furniture company there, H and I, or something like that?

Yeah, they're, they're the largest domestic office furniture company in the United States in this little tiny place in Iowa, shout.

Out to H and I. They had the world's best. When I was in Muscatine, chicken salad sandwich I've ever had in my life. I was there working at PwC and Big Four accounting. Auditing. H and I.

So, dang, that's crazy.

That's all I remember from it, which two months later I was. Knew I wasn't cut out for auditing, but it's still with me today. But yeah, that's my only Muscatine story. Only time I've been there. But that's cool, dude. And also, I also caught this too. I tried not to overly research your background and just know an insane amount of creepy things about you. Like, I would if this was a webinar and I was writing for you. But the freestyle rap thing, I'm curious how that even happened growing up in Muscatine.

I don't know. But when I was 7, I started freestyling, like at the age of 7 years old. It was just in me. So I would. I would go to like these football games, kids, birthday parties, and I would rap in front of them. So I started rapping. So there was a group called Dos Effects, which is like, only the oldest heads would know it. I don't know if you ever heard of Doss Effects.

I don't. And I know a fair amount too. So.

Yeah, because I was looking at the records behind you because I see you got like mad villain behind you.

Yeah.

Oh.

So if you pick out Doom and that's the first one you say on there, you're a true, true hip hop fan.

Yeah. MF doom is probably. He's one of my top top 10 for sure. So Dos Effects was this old school rap group and they had this really fast rhyme. So I was rapping it one day and kids were like, dude, that's awesome. Say it again. And so they did. So I said it like five times coming home from this, like, sports event. And then I was like, man, I should just do my own rhymes.

Dang.

How I got into it.

Dang. Were they impressed? Do you remember if they were impressed with the speed or the syncopation or you just had it all?

It was. It was three things. The speed was there, but it's also like, they would do this like tongue flip thing, like bung, skiggity bung, skiggity bung hung like, that's how they. That's how it started. Off goes a pita piper. I'm hyper in Pinocchio's nose. I Mean, that's how it went. Cool.

So it was a lot of Nergasm type rhyming stuff.

Yeah. In. In 1992 or whatever it was. So this was cutting edge at the time. And then I would kind of dance and perform a little bit and I would. Because it was acapella, I would pause at certain points to build the tension of the. I don't know where I learned this stuff, Nick. It just was very natural to me. And then it got positively reinforced. So I just kept doing it and.

I kept doing it.

Try to make a career out of it. That didn't work surprisingly. But that's what got me into marketing because I try to market my music. I'm like, how do I sell it? Well, you market it. Okay. How do you market it? Oh, well, this marketing stuff is even cooler than the music stuff.

Yeah, it makes a lot more money. You're like, man, I'm still organizing words. I still have to care about tonality and cadence. It's like the same thing. It's just use skill set differently. So dude, yeah, I. I don't know what it is about your style, but you definitely are the world's best at a lot of maybe subcategories of webinars. And just the way you have a delivery, almost like a great stand up comedian. When I saw you last, I don't know if it's rehearsed, but it's like chappelle like sometimes.

So are you talking about a webinar?

Yeah.

Like you just hold tension.

Well and like the.

It's. It's either rehearsed or you're just doing.

It because you've done it so many times.

You just know where to. It was good.

And yeah, it's fun. Marketing the marketer is my favorite. So it's always a fun event to see. So that was my first time in person. I know we talked about after. Can I talk about bleep this out? If so, can we talk about publishing.com and them seeking inspiration? Cool.

Yeah. I'm an open book.

Yeah. No, I mean that is. That should give you another title if they use it because they were doing quite a hefty revenue total with basically I'm like this just adjacent fireblowing template they're running really well. Running it really well. But it's. It was templated at first. So I would say that that style still has legs to this day. And I usually reference that one when people tell me webinars are dead. And I was like, dang ye, they're.

Real yeah, it's funny, Nick, because it's, it's a unique style. It's different than the traditional thing that people think of when they think of webinars initially because they generally think of like a Russell Brunson style, Three Secrets, or some derivative of that. And the style that, you know, it's one of many styles that I have. But that style for that particular webinar is very educational based. People will tell you not to do that. And it's very process orientated and it's step by step. It's not secrets, it's a step by step model. And for certain content and for certain markets, that is a significantly more effective model for a webinar. And you just don't see it. That is more difficult. Let's be very clear. It's a, it's a more difficult webinar to create, but it's more effective.

Yeah. And honestly, yeah, maybe there's more nuance to it. And you definitely are. As far as someone who goes deep somewhere, like, the amount of closes that you have or segs into, like the call to action is insane, which I love. So there's always something to try. And I use basically you and Brunson's like, repository of segs into the cta. Usually when I'm working with someone new and I just work through them until something feels natural to them. Because some of them, they're like, yeah, I don't really like this one. Like, yeah, you know, information alone won't get you there. You need a mentor. They're like, I've heard it before. I'm like, okay, next one, you know, and just keep going. I'm like, your two choices. Their two choices, you know, your three choices. So usually something hits for them and I'm like, cool, let's lean into that. To me, I'm curious what your opinion of your own expertise is, but where do you think that if you look at just even we get really micro for just one second. When you think about a webinar, you're like, man, the opening. No one does the opening better than me or goes deeper there. No one goes site to CTA or no one stacks like I do. Where do you think that you really shine if you had to pick one area?

So I am so transparent these days. And I always use, I always have been. Even the first webinar I ever did, that was a pitch webinar I said right in the beginning. Like, I didn't say it as good as I've said it now because I've I've been able to say this a thousand times, but essentially the frame that I set was, you know, I have two agendas here today. My first agenda is to teach you X, Y, and Z. My second agenda is to sell you something. Now, if I don't make good on teaching you X, Y, and Z, then I don't want you to buy what I'm going to sell at the end. However, by some small miracle, if I'm able to actually show you X, Y, and Z, then will you at least consider the offer that I'm going to make to you at the end of this webinar? And people will almost, to a person, 100% of them say yes to that. And back in 2008, because that was the first time I tried that. That was unheard of. Nobody was doing that.

Yeah, they're like, you let the cat.

Out of the bag.

You never get price. You never tell them there's an offer.

Yeah, you. You pretend like you're doing the greatest thing in the world, just giving out of the kindness of your heart. And then, like, site, give me your money.

Right.

Like, yeah. You know, Nick, some of those closes were so good. And this was on.

That was like, dang.

One of the setups I used was, I'm going to make an offer so good, only a narcissist will.

I. I took a picture of that side.

Can anybody that down? So you can watch the thing on YouTube. It's not. Put it on. Yeah, yeah. I'm telling you. Yeah. And I, you know, I was. I was saying all sorts of things like that and addressing that audience. Now, again, you got to know your audience. So the more. The more sophisticated the audience is, the more you can challenge them. You know, this is a beginner audience. There's more empathy. Like, this is difficult. This is challenging. I know this is going to be tough for you. And, yeah, it's going to be hard, but it's still worth doing, even though it's hard. And I get it. It's scary when you try this out. So you take a more empathetic tone. You meet them that. Because if you overwhelm somebody who's just getting started and you challenge them and you pressure them, you only get a small segment of the market that responds to that. And even if they respond, my goal isn't just to sell somebody, Nick. I gotta service them after they purchase the product. So, yeah, if I scare them into buying, then they're gonna be scared into using the product like that. You do. LTV goes down From a math perspective. But then spiritual goes down. I feel like I'm trying to help people, not just sell them. Selling is the first step in helping somebody. So I agree. A beginner audience. I'm not going to challenge at a webinar con or at some of these other places. To a successful person, challenging them is the greatest way to get them to respond to you psychologically. So when I say, hey, listen, like, you know, I challenge them and I'm telling them, prove it to me that you're going to do this. Prove it to me that you're going to get out of your own way, they're like, I'll buy and I'll show you, Jason. Okay, fantastic. You totally can. I'm okay with that. So you calibrate to the audience. But regardless, I take that transparency very clearly. Like, when I use the two choices close, that's out of transparency. You have two options now. You can take everything I showed you today and go off on your own. And if that's your only option, then it's worth doing. What if there was another option? What if we could do it together? What if I could bring resources to you? What if I could offer you support? What if I could be cheering you on and being in your corner and helping you succeed and being there for you when you have setbacks and failures to help pick you back up? Would you like to know what that option could look like? So it's like, that's just raw authenticity there. It's like you can do it on your own and you can save money, but then you pay these costs. We can do it together and you pay money, but you save on these other areas. Like, you know, struggle being alone, being isolated, lacking resources, not having advantages, not sharing the responsibilities. You know that that's a cost, too. And a lot of people aren't aware of that. So I'm very transparent. Radical candor is what psychologists call it. And that's. That's typically how I sell. Yeah, I think even in my, you know, think of a lot of the webinars that I do like, I'll set a frame early in the webinar, or I'll say, hey, listen, it doesn't matter if I show you XYZ 1, 2, and 3. I could show you all of these things, but you'll kick them immediately out of your head because you have these biases that prevent you from even hearing them right now. Because you think this the case, and you think you can't do it because of this reason. And you think that these issues hold you back. So it doesn't matter if I show you X, Y and Z, because you will immediately come up with excuses that stop you from even entertaining the idea that they might be 1% true. So let me ask you something. Are you willing to at least put some of these biases on hold for the next 45 minutes, hear what I'm able to say, listen to it objectively, and then make your own decision? Is that okay? And that's just being super direct.

I appreciate that. It is funny to me, asking to put someone's biases on hold by like definition, that's very hard to do. But yeah, you got good coverage there. And now I'm curious, like, how much that room you've been in these rooms like that room. So you know that you might not have had to do the level of prep research that maybe you just did for something like last night. What's, what's kind of the range of prep research? And do you spend it more on target market, market timing, conditions, or offer itself?

Yeah, it's a great question. So there's, there's general market theory. There, there are things that are true almost independent of a market. Right. So that's where we start. And oftentimes there's leverage there. So I'll give you some. Here's one of the most fundamental truths and how I look at every single offer and it's this. If you can change the circumstance, it's better than changing the client. So we try to do as little as possible to improve the capabilities of the customer. We try to do as much as possible to improve the conditions. So here's the story. I give on that, right? Many years ago I was in Vegas and we were there for Affiliate Summit. I don't know if you've ever been to Affiliate.

I have Ethan West.

Yeah, yeah, and Affiliate Summit West. And this was a million years ago. I can't even tell you. In 2009, I think it was. And there was this guy in the business, the name was Lee McIntyre. And Lee was. He had this killer offer at the time. It was so. And he came over to Affiliate Summit, first time in the States. I have my friend Jet with me. Jet used to be my affiliate manager. So all three of us are in Vegas screwing around an Affiliate Summit. And we decided to take Lee out and play some poker. He never played before. I don't know what happened, Nick, but we found the dumbest table in existence. Right? That's what you're supposed to do. Players were terrible. So even Though Lee had never played poker before in his life, with minimum preparation and instruction, he walked out of there about $300 richer than when he started for about two hours at the table. And J and I, we cleaned up. So I'm like, huh, I can either get better at poker, which is very hard, or I can just find tables with people who are terrible at poker, and then I can win more money that way. So when we come into offers, we're like, how can we change the setting so clients can get results without improving their capabilities? That's what we always try to solve for.

That's a really. I'm going to take that and quote that to my team because basically, are you saying like, environment, proximity is the number one factor, success factor, that you can.

100%. Right. So they've done studies on this. Psychologically, you want to know the number one indicator that, that predicts success, where when a child is born, it's not, it's not race, it's not IQ level, it's not even money, it's zip code. That's the number one predictor is where they were born or where they live. And so the environment that you're in is, has tremendous impact on who you are. So if you grew up in a family who always told you that money was the root of all evil, and only rich people got money because they cheated other people, then it's unlikely you were going to be rich because you grew up in an environment where none of that was supported. But if you grew up in an environment where people told you that and showed you how valuable it is to have resources and how much more leverage you can get and how much good you can provide for resources. And the people were good models of how to accumulate money and how to spend money and what to do with money. You have a very different relationship with money. And so. And all of us have this from the settings in the environments that we're in. So what I first try to solve for, and it's never 100%, but the first thing I try to solve for is how can I change the least on the customer in order to get them a better result? So how can we change the settings? How can we change how they approach the thing? How can we give them resources that are typically unavailable to them? How do we take a resource that costs a lot of money and make it cost not quite a lot of money to give them access to things that normally they wouldn't have access to? So those are. That's a gender general marketing psychology that Works in every single market without fail. There's very few markets that doesn't work in. Generally people prefer things with the least moving parts, not with multiple moving parts. So how can we simplify and distill the communication into the clearest form possible? And that's very difficult to do. So we try to solve for that and that's what we're looking at in the market. So you know, there's. When you, when you talk to a prospect, I. This is super psychological. So I love it. People enjoy this, right? Yeah.

My. My audience should they. They've dealt with me their whole lives. So.

Okay. This is like, this is high, high level shit. But it's really important. Right? You can. If you're trying to get somebody to agree with you or accept something that you're. You're putting in front of them, you have a couple options. Options. Number one is you can only share with them things that they already agree with. AKA pandering. Politicians will pander all day long. Right? So you never ever challenge their model of reality. You only operate within what they believe to be true. And that's effective in the sense of they will agree with you 100% but it's limited because often some of the things that they believe to be true are also what are causing their problems. 100. They believe that failure is very scary and cataclysmic. Therefore I should never fail ever in my entire life. That is going to be a difficult person to help because a large part of success is failing. So. So I can either just say, hey listen, you know, you're not going to fail. You're not going to fail. Failure is not an option. Failure is not an option. And I'm misaligned with the reality of most markets because most markets believe they're going to fail. And me telling them otherwise, they just won't believe me. Right? So we can either only put it into what they believe to be true, we can only put it into what we believe to be true, which is not effective at all really. Or we find a way to find the best of what they believe to be true and introduce things that they're willing to accept to be true under the right conditions.

Yeah dude, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

It's more fun to do it that way. I just. I hate bad yes.

Tracks like the people are like, I think you agree that you'd be better.

Off a little bit more money.

I think you agree, right, that you would deserve.

You deserve a raise.

And I think you would agree that this is the best real estate offer that's ever been created.

Yeah.

So like, to me it's, it's.

That works though.

It probably does, right? If it's a little bit more coy than that. But yeah, like I always, you miss the opportunity to break the belief pattern. And that's actually what, what I enjoy about when it comes to marketing psychology is getting to like, you got to find somewhere to bond with them. And I like values. Like, I like to bond on values and then either disagree or agree on a villain, usually a shared villain if I can, and then pivot. That's, I'm curious, like your style. So it sounds like you have a belief, belief reframing type framework or options that you go through.

Yeah.

But yeah, to me, the quickest way to get along with someone at a bar is like, hey man, you hate Donald Trump too. I'm like, yeah, so. Or whatever it is.

Right. So, yeah, whatever. So that's the blend. So for the market, what I'm attempting to do is what will they never accept no matter what? Okay, now that I know that we don't play in that territory, what, what are they likely to accept that will help them? Now we know that. And what could they accept under the right circumstances? And that's the biggest gray area in the world. And that's where the high paid guesswork comes in place. So let's test some theories out and let's see how people respond to that. Let's see what, what they will, how far they will go and what they, what they will say yes to under the right circumstances. And then how long will it take to articulate that? Can we do it in a single setting? Ideally, that's what I want. I don't want to do it over 77 days.

You know, neither do I. Yeah. This is separate topic, but when it comes to webinar sales cycle, people ask me, they're like, well, the average lead sales time is like 50 days. I'm like, well, it doesn't have to be. I'm like, it. Has anyone ever bought like opted in the same day and bought the same day, like cool. Multiple times. So it is possible. So we should optimize for it. Yeah. So there's, there's certain patterns like that. And I always love, like, that's, that's a brilliant take. I'm always trying to condense the nurture that I would do in 50 days, in a period of one day, five minutes. How, like, how can I get them there quicker without seven to 10 touch points that people love to kind of spout off about when I'm like, yeah, you don't need them if you do do good on a one shot kill. So that's, that's the game for me. But one very important thing that I wanted to ask about that, the line, if you do cross it, how do you get back over it? So it sounds like you tried to find it. And if you do, how do you come back? Or how do you hedge from that position?

That's a great question. So what we try to do first is set an emotionally safe environment. And this is something that most marketers don't understand. So by the way, I learned a lot of this stuff, Nick, is because my attitude early on in business was, I'll study everything you study and then I'll study the things you won't study. So if I can read every marketer book and every business book that's out there, great. Now you and I have the same shared knowledge. But then if I start reading cognitive behavioral therapy, reading all sorts of obscure psychological references, now I have a treasure. If I learn hypnosis, now I have a treasure trove of different modalities beyond just business that I can tap into. And then I can mix them together and blend them and test them out. So one of the things that I learned from a psychologist very early on is creating an emotionally safe environment. Because if you're a good therapist or you're a good psychiatrist, you have to have somebody feel safe to open up to you first before they will open up to you first. And if, if they're completely safe, they will be okay because they trust you so much and they will be forgiving if you mess up. Because we're human beings and we make mistakes. It is, it is human to make a mistake. And so they will forgive us if we mess up. And we can get them to agree to that. Hey, listen, I may be a little aggressive here because I'm so excited about this and I think it might be the right thing for you. So forgive me if I come across a little bit strong here. And if you built the emotionally safe environment, they will say, okay, hard sell me all day long, daddy. And I've proven this with Iman. We should get, we should break down that lawn chair. And if I would love to, I wanted to ask you about that too. That shit was insane. That, that, that, that stretched my limit of believability to what I thought was possible. I've now reconsidered things that I thought were true that I don't think are True anymore to how far you can go with these techniques and what we're doing here today.

That feels good after being in this industry for a long time. And Yeah.

I mean it always shows you there's more, there's always deeper. It's exciting to me how far you can go.

Yeah.

No.

Anytime I come across a limiting belief I have that I can knock down or like just a different. What, what was it? I guess maybe one or two things from working with him on. So I, I haven't worked with him or really never. But I remember when he was an 18 year old savant kid in our Mastermind. He was just so far along and.

He'S got some of the best instincts I've ever seen. The kid is 25 years old.

Yeah.

And he's making some serious moves. Right. So backstory on that. So everybody. Because I had a theory. So I moved to France at the beginning of the year for four months and lived in Cannes. Long story. I'm not going to get into it here. And I was working with a lot of clients while we were in that situation. And I hadn't been able to be in front of a live audience. So I have been making a lot of money working behind the scenes for various different clients. But I hadn't launched my own product or I hadn't partnered with somebody and hadn't been in front of an audience. So six months had gone by, maybe eight months since I'd been in front of an audience at scale. And I've been running new patterns in my head and new thoughts and new ideas of what I could do next time I was in front of an audience and I had done about six different consulting calls in a row. Nick. In the span of two weeks while I was in France, where the same topic came up over and over again, a guy would come up and be like, Jason, we're going to have 6,000 people coming up on this webinar. What should we do? And I would say the number one thing that you should do if you want to maximize the situation is just stay on the webinar longer. They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, you're gonna drop the, the CTA about an hour and a half in and you're gonna have 3, 000 people on. So just stay until they quit asking you questions. And they're like, how long can that be? Probably four or five hours. Yeah.

So you don't even give a drop off percentage or anything. You just give them a general. Yeah, just keep Going well.

It was very enlightening to me, Nick, because this is, this is revolutionary, by the way. So many people still don't get this big secret. The cost is minimal. You've already paid for the lead. Zoom doesn't charge you by the minute, so you don't pay any extra. There's slide decks don't cost you more every time you put a slide in them. Right. And the people that say yes don't immediately ask for a refund if you go longer. In fact, you enroll them even deeper into it if you do this correctly. So the cost is negligible. It's a few hours of your time extra. But the upside is tremendous. So they had no idea how to do this though. And so they were asking me all sorts of questions, well, how do I do it? How do I handle this? What should I do here? And I realized that because I've done this for 15 years, like sitting on hour. An hour. An hour. An hour per webinar. Four or five, six hours on a webinar. I didn't realize the unconscious competence that I've developed. So I reexamined it with consciousness and I'm like, I'll give you a couple examples, right? So if you got a bunch of price objection, then you shouldn't handle them all at once. So if you handle price for 15 minutes straight, it does two things. One, it makes people think that price is a big deal because you focused on it too long. And that's a problem. We kind of defensive. Yeah, boring. Like it's boring to cover the same objection multiple times. So you deal with one price objection and then you move on to say, a time objection. Then you move on to a belief objection and then you move on to a product specific objection. Then you cycle back and then you hit the price objection again. You don't hit it the same way, you hit it a different way. Now you give people two different ways to look at price and then you cycle through another sentence. So I'm explaining all this, right? Yeah. I also said to them, hey, listen, you should have more than one person on. Because. And I've learned this after I close for a little bit of time, if my business partner will comes in and then he closes, there's an effect there when you hear it from a different person. Not only does that allow the presenter to get some rest, but it also allows people to hear some from somebody else. And that's going to close people. Yeah, the energy shift. Right. Like you should cycle people in and out. And we're Just going on and on and on about the esoteria of this art that nobody even knows exists. And I did this for about 15 hours with consulting clients. Okay. And then I'm sitting there thinking, Nick, I'm like, I should just do this for people. I'm like, I should just go on and close for it.

Dude, I was pumped to see you on we got the. I was like, this is going to be a freaking great webinar.

Oh my God. And so I'm like, well, I can't do it for everybody. And I don't, I don't want to make it complicated. So let me test out a theory. So the next person that asked me, I'm going to tell them $10,000 an hour. So if I show up and I, and I close for four hours and they're the right client, I'm going to charge them $40,000. And then if it works, then we'll move into a rev share after that. Like, we'll do performance basis. But if not, the wor. Worst case is I, I love doing this. Yeah.

So you're having a good time.

I'm like, I'll make 40 GS for an evening of screwing around. So then Iman is referred to me by a client of minor consulting clients, and I quote him. And I, you know, I say, you know, my consulting rate is 3500 bucks an hour. My close rate is $10,000 an hour. And if I have to come to you, all expenses paid, first class and all that kind of stuff. Right? And so, and this is. Iman is so brilliant. He says, why don't I just pay you X? I'm not going to reveal how much it was, but it was a large number. Yeah, I'm just going to pay you this amount of money and then you can do whatever, right?

And I'm like, confidence.

So, yeah, by the way, he ended up getting the better deal because I calculated the amount of time because I was on. Because we did five webinars and I was on about three hours a day. So I was on there for 15 hours just closing and did a whole bunch of other stuff for them. He was so grateful. You know, he gave, he asked me, he goes, what do you guys. What kind of watches do you own? And I didn't know what he was asking. He goes, I want to get you a watch as a, as a present. And I go, you know, it'd be even better get my wife a watch. I said, what kind of watch would she like? And she has a vision Board with a watch on it. So I'm like, this is the watch that you like. And he goes, if I can get it retail, I get it for you. And then I laughed. I think the watch is more than he paid me.

Yeah, I love that.

I did a good job. And now we have a rev share relationship because we have another launch coming up. But here's the thing, Nick. So this is the first client that I got to test this theory on of closing. And I've been thinking about it for six months and I've been consulting with clients on this. And so we're doing a five day challenge. We're going to pitch on day two. So they originally were planning on pitching on day four. And I said, no, we're going to pitch on day two. That way we can then do this thing multiple days, not just on day four and five, but on day two, day three, day four and day five. So he says, fantastic. And on day one, I'm still gonna do this. Even though we're not selling a product. I'm gonna go in and answer questions as if they're objections and reframe them and break beliefs and set new beliefs to install mental states and emotional states that will be conducive for us to close better on day two. Now keep in mind, like, Iman has taken a big leap of faith with me here because there's 59,000 people on, on day one.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, this is crazy, right? So Iman does the formal presentation and it's like an hour, hour and a half long. And then he brings me on and I'm. It's just me and an audience and they're asking questions.

Dude, that's so smart. He's hedging for his own stamina. He's like, well, I probably would only go four hours anyway. So it's, it's really just another sales. Sales presto. I didn't have.

And Nick, this is a, this is a YouTube live audience.

Yeah, I remember. That's what I was watching it on at the time.

Yeah. So this is, this is when you're live on YouTube, the attitude, somebody shows up is different than if. It's that if that same person. If, when I was a kid, if I went to grandma's, I was the sweetest, youngest, nicest you could ever know. Right? Everyone hung out with my friends. We were a bunch of. Right. Same kid, different circumstance, different reaction. So people on YouTube lives just are in a different mental state and it's all public and it's crazy. And the Average demographic is about 22 to 24 years old that's watching these videos and they are brutal publicly if they don't like what's going on.

And yeah, yeah, streamer and chat culture is just different as far as comment management these days.

Yeah. And you can't regulate, moderate the comms.

Like a machine gun.

This is the most difficult circumstance you could find yourself in to test these ideas out. And I'm jet lagged off my ass because I'm in Dubai. We flew to Dubai from la. I'm not sleeping. I just came back from France. I don't even know my name. Right. So.

Oh, you're doing pretty good for not knowing your name. Yeah, that's let me know.

Crazy. So we operated on the theory that we weren't sure how these closed sessions were going to go, so we cut them out of the recording. There's a couple different reasons why. My main reason why is because when we publish the video on YouTube, I want the algorithm to pick it up and spread it to as many people as possible because I want us 5 million plus people on his YouTube. It's a great distribution channel. So we cut it out. That was one of the reasons. We also didn't know how, you know, branding and all this other kind of stuff. Right. The amount of people who were incredibly upset that they could not watch me close and pitch for hours on end was intense. Like, and the amount of gratitude that I would bring into each day from an audience from the previous day was insane. Because even though I was hard selling, even though I was closing, even though I was going at it, the way in which I did it allowed me to simultaneously sell incredibly hard. But because I created an emotionally safe environment, it allowed me to grab this massive rapport and instill this so much trust from the audience and I couldn't close them long enough. Like 15 hours wasn't enough time. We could have done even more time than that. Right. It was insane.

That is interesting. I kind of want to do that now because our go to is normally we cut. Like last week we cut off YouTube live maybe midway through Webby, somewhere around 45 minutes to an hour and a half. Pace went forward.

And there's always different circumstances that will determine strategy. Right. But it's like in general, people are just underestimate if you do it right. What the appetite was. So one of my favorite reframes that I ever did was to this audience. We had some programming issues on day one. You know, they brought me in 29 days before the launch. So There was only so much we could optimize for. So I knew the scripting, it was solid and I knew it would work. But if, you know, we had another 40 hours, I could have really done some magic to it. To have the right pacing, have the right different emotional state, set, all that kind of stuff, right. I knew it wouldn't be a big factor. So kind of thing where if you can squeeze a point or two out of the thing on a 10 million or 15 or a 20 million dollar launch, a lot of leverage, squeezing a couple points here and there, they really add up over time. But it was also v one of us working together. So you got to optimize with the resources you had. So the audience, by the time I step in there, the general sentiment is they were frustrated. Like, get to the point. This went on too long. You know, you brought me under this context saying you were going to show me X, Y and Z and you didn't even get to that yet on day one. So the audience was somewhat hostile. So I go to the audience and I don't know where this came from, Nick, because this is just pure channeling at this point in time, because I've done that to them. So I set the frame to the audience. I said, hey, have you ever heard of this thing called the marshmallow experiment? Stanford ran this experiment many years ago where they took kids and they put a marshmallow in front of them and they said, hey, you can eat this marshmallow now, or if you wait 15 minutes, I'll give you two marshmallows right now. They're kids, I'm an adult, right? So there's some subtlety of the psychology there. Put the marshmallow in front of them. And then I said, here's what they discovered. They discovered that the kids that ate the marshmallow light it right away. And they measured them later in life, they weren't that successful. And they discovered the kids that waited just 15 minutes, just a little bit light, delayed gratification, they discovered that they were incredibly successful later on in life. So I didn't say that they were failures. I said, these other kids, not you, but other kids are failures. So third party perspective, okay? And then I said, here's what they discovered. They wondered, could we teach kids how to delay gratification for just a little bit? So they went back and they took the kids that ate the marshmallows right away. They taught them to wait 15 minutes. Then they measured their success later on in life. And then they discovered that they were as successful as the kids that automatically could delay gratification. So now we've really set a new. A new state of belief to step into. And we've contrasted it with the current state of belief that they have right now, which is, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me. And I said, you know, so then I said, listen, let me ask you another question. I said, your favorite movie, if you skip to the last five minutes of it the first time you watched it, would it still be your favorite movie? So I've given them another way in which delaying gratification pays off. And then, you know, and then the third way, it's like, listen, you know, if you want to have a baby in a month, that doesn't mean you get nine women pregnant. It doesn't work that way. A baby takes nine months to make. You can't force it. Some things just take time. And then I do the final thing right. So I've given them three different perspectives at which to look at the thing I say to them. I said, you have to wonder how that serves you. If you're somebody that says, I need it right now, I need it right now, I need it right now. You have to wonder how that will show up in your life if you carry that attitude with you wherever you go.

I think that's a really important lesson just to teach any audience to be honest. And Bradley, it is, right?

I have never at any point in that time, Nick, told them you should delay gratification. And never at any time that I directly confront them and tell them what they were doing is wrong. Never at any time that I tell them that there's a better way of doing things. I walk them through a process so they could self reflect, analyze their behavior, and from that decide if it served them or not or if they should try on a new behavior. And I did that in three minutes. Ish.

And in a way that's really empathetic comparatively to how I typically kind of.

And that's the empathy. And it was sincere too, because I'm literally just trying to help them. And I know that this behavior is not serving them. Regardless of whether they buy or not. This is not the kind of behavior that will work well for them. And then all of a sudden, because they were putting Ls in the chat, like, this is some meme shit that I didn't even know existed.

I want to be the behind the scenes guy next time you do this. I love, love chat management.

The W started coming up in the chubs, they started dropping W's in the chat. And then I knew. I knew we were connected, right? And, you know, so after I walked them through that, then we started answering questions. And I've analyzed this because I've never done this before in my life, Nick. This is the first time when. When we were done closing, I took the recordings, I brought it back to my team, and I said, let's capture every close that I did, because I 95 of them, I don't remember even doing. I'm in the moment, just calibrating. I'm in a deep state of hypnosis, and I'm in trance, and I'm just calibrating. I'm in a flow state, and I forget it as soon as I'm done. And so we have now ran the transcripts back and we've captured them all. And now I'm studying them and I'm like, damn, that's the best clothes I've ever seen on that thing.

And I didn't.

I would never use it again. So now we're bringing consciousness back into it. But it's insane how valuable it was. But it started with this. We just hung on. This was on day one. We were just helping them decide what is the best way for them to show up for the material. And then if they buy, they buy. If they don't buy, they don't buy. But I was able to do that. That was on day one, and then day two when we had. When we closed them. God, it was crazy. So I. I spent three, you know, three hours on day one with them before there was no pitch, just building the report. And people were like, where's the recording of that? I want to watch that. And they couldn't watch it, and they were very frustrated. But then on day two, when we started closing, same thing on day three, they were like, where's the day two recordings at? Where's Jason at? Where's he at? I want to hear him. And it was all pitch. But you can pitch in a way where the pitch is as valuable as any other part of your webinar do a hundred percent.

And with this audience in particular, because I was. I was watching that chat too, and it's. It's fun. I've now started just watching top streamers for just how they deal with their chat and their interactions, because it's so different than typical. It's not like the old days where you're like. Puts ones in the chat guys, if you're in, you know, new York Twos. If you're involved, they'll just do whatever they want, you know, and then they'll try to take the frame or take the chat right collectively because they, they have that hive mind. So dude, that's really funny. I love making them wait. I would have been like, yeah. Ls for longer.

The long.

The more Ls I get, the longer I'm going to go. Because I don't think you guys think I can actually do this.

I don't think that's what I told the guys. So when we're, we're in Iman, so we're in Dubai, we're in this four story mansion and so the, the, the studio's on the fourth floor and all the, the guys in the team are on the first floor. And so you would walk up four flights of steps to get in there, you know, so I'd walk into the studio right when Iman was done with the formal presentation and then I would come in and then I would do the informal part where I would close and I told the guys right before I went up on the final day or the fourth day, I can't remember which day it was. And I said, I want to reframe what an L means. I want to, I want to take it from a negative thing and cast it into a positive light. So if it great and if they don't want to use it anymore, then they quit using it. And I did that after I took it from you. I don't know specifically. I can't remember what it was, but we turned an L into a chat into a positive thing. Yeah, that's.

Dude, that's so much fun. Yeah, like that's, that's what I live for. So next time if you guys do that, I love being the one behind the scenes. I'm like, cool. What do you want to know about this audience? You want to know how much money they have? You want another credit scores? You want it? Do you want to know what their site profile is? Do you want me to break them all out into one room? The people that can afford a payment plan or like whatever it is, I'm like, I like to make that happen. So although you are giving me some encouragement here, I'm like, shoot. I've never actually tried to do a webby with Pace before and now I'm like, there would be some utility. Our styles are kind of similar. We work really well when we've worked together. It's just like when I come up with, he delivers it similar. So it's not so much of a change of pace. You might be though. Like there might be. I'm getting a lot of ideas here and certainly Jamil is much more heart close. Like makes people cry with meditation sessions at our last mastermind, like truly has a gift for reaching the people that Pace can't, in my opinion. Pace, if you're watching this, I know, I know you think you can take the whole room, but no one. I've never seen anyone close 100% on a thousand plus person levy.

So hey, I mean, like I find the more closers you bring in, the better because again, nothing else. It breaks up the pacing. No matter how good you are, people can only listen to you for so long before they habituate what you're saying and then they start to tune you out. So if you close for 10 minutes, then you bring in closer two and he closes for 10 minutes and you bring in closer three and she closes for 10 minutes. Yeah, it's.

And then you cycle back through, catch second wins.

Yeah. Yeah, that's more effective than any one person closing.

Dude, that might be the most helpful tip that I'm definitely going to start pushing for too. Because we expect, Honestly, I, I never expect pace to do. Like when you're saying people. There's a competence issue when someone's like, how do you go more than 45 minutes on a webinar? I ran out of slides and my template's gone. And I'm like, well, it's just like the reps. If you put in the reps, you know, you have all these, you know, tricks in your bag to keep people's attention. You're just stringing them all together for as long. And that's what paced us so well is once he gets. I always talk about flattening the curve once you, you know, in the first minute or so stop dehemorrhaging. He typically can take them as long as he wants three, four hours with very little drop off in plateau until it's psyched to cta. And then you get that little bit of fall off where people are like, okay, there's an offer. But in general, like he's. And people are not normal.

I've seen.

Yeah, dude, thank you. I think he is too. Like he has. But he truly, he was good when we, for the first day we worked together. I always say he makes me look good because I came with a deck and then he didn't even use it for the first VSL we did. He's like, can we do it live? With a live studio audience. Just invite some students. And then I was like, well, I've never seen that before. That's probably not gonna work, but, heck, yeah, let's try it. So that was V1, and then the one he did last week. I'll send it to you. I only found, like, a couple critique points in it now, where normally I would have given him much more feedback. So I would love your eyes on it and just see if there's anything you can see that he could have done better, too.

That's great. I. So last. Last time I saw. No, not the last time, but Pace came down to Malibu with our friend Steve Harward. Yeah, not bad. And so he was like, hey, you want to go to what's that fancy Nobu everybody talks about?

I love Noble.

That I don't even like.

Yeah, no, I'm. I'm basic for Novo.

Yeah, that. Now I am. But so. So he's like, let's go out. And it was just paid. Steve and me, we go out to Nobu. I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat fish. So Paige was like, I got you. So he ordered the whole menu for me. And I remember we were sitting there, and I said something apparently profound, as I'm known to do from time to time, although I didn't realize it. And Pace all of a sudden starts writing it down. I'm like, dude, are you taking those right now? He's like, dude, if you. He's like, when you think Jason, I take notes, and I'm like, damn. Like, that. Like, hit me. Because to me, Pace is at the top of the game. Like, that dude crushes it. He's really good. So I remember walking away feeling really good about that. And, you know, him and Steve went to this thing on the beach close by, and, like, 3,000 people showed up just to meet Pace because Pace was going on meetups. Isn't that crazy? Very, very humble guy. Very cool thing. And then I had Pace come and speak at my mastermind, and that was the single best mastermind. When we converted guests into paid members. Heck, yeah. Stories that Pace told were so transformative that people had such a good experience. And then we closed a lot of guests that day.

That's it.

Like, how come we don't do that at every master bottle? Like, well, get a. Get. Get a Pace.

You got to get Pace to go before your pitch, man. He, like, He. He sets everyone up out of just pure. Not generosity, but pure, I think, just wanting to give for just offering in the stage. I've seen him go and just with no ask for. I'm sure he didn't ask for commission. Sure he didn't ask for anything for like doing anything. Right. Typically if people offer him obviously speaking fees. But he's never one to ask. He's always wanted to give. And I like, there's been events where he's went to him, like, dang, dude, we should have pitched that event. Like he pretty much just did it. And that's what kind of dean did for us at owners club this year too. So brilliantly. Like there's only a few of those people who really get it. Like I would trust you up there, but the year before, who was it like, Grant Cardone brought down the house. Everyone loved him, but he said some stuff that would be like, you know, taken away from the through line, let's say so. So it's, it's. It takes a certain type of person to be like, cool. How can I set this person up to where it goes well for me and for them in real time. But the 3,000 people in a meetup, bro, that's. I've never seen anything close to that before. And the secret is, is literally because he started five years ago and he showed up at students houses and he put in the most work. So just happened.

And Nick, it's the same thing we're talking about here. This is what people don't understand because I was explaining this all my consulting clients. I said, if a client sees you hanging in there with them longer than anybody else, that in and of itself is a powerful buying signal. Yep. They say you don't give up on me. So if I should spend my money with anybody, it should be you. So I'm like, technique is important, but also there's just quantity. Just the more you hang in there with somebody, the more likely they are to buy with you because the more that they can see you're not saying you'll be there for them, you're showing that you'll be there for them. And a lot of people don't get that. So Pace understood that early on in his career and this is what I understood early on in my career. And so Even though there's 59,000 kids who don't know who I am, they can immediately see this guy is willing to hang in there with me and try to help me become a better version of myself, independent. If I pay him money or not, he is willing to go the extra mile, stay up to one in the morning in Dubai to see if he can help me get an insight that can allow me to level up how I show up.

Dude, I appreciate you saying that. Can I show you something for like five seconds Because I think it's super unique. That is guys, if you want. Yeah. Closing hack what Jason just said. I'm gonna show my actual text from Pace and Jamil. If I can figure out the screen share, I'll just go entire screen. This is Pace took this photo. This was after midnight on day two of our pitch. Pace, like, sees this. This is someone on our team. Shout out to the new Reach team. We have an amazing team behind Pace two. Pace sent this to me, Josiah and I think Jamil and he was like, hey, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. She got down on his level to meet him where he was at. This is past midnight. You know, these people are technically quote unquote, like we're not hard closing or anything. We're just trying to spend the most time with the people in the room. Usually that works for us because we're not actually the best maybe technical marketing and sales team, but we do try to care the most and that seems to be our moat.

Yep. Who knew caring would be so profitable?

I, I it's nice that it is because it would suck if it didn't turn out like the whole time. Like, people forget Pace didn't really pop off for the first like he did originally the first like month because he kind of had a warm cult audience that really knew him. Less than 5,000 people. But once we burned through that, we kind of had like this one to two year period where no one talked about him. Everyone was talking about our other brands. It takes time to win by community, but it's like a long moat if you get it right.

Yeah. I mean, if you want to. What's the saying? Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. So the best way to go fast is to go slow and smooth.

Yeah. I say like right now we're in our fight club era where we could just like take over a small city if we wanted to with our students. But we'll see where he ends up going.

Love it.

Well, dude, I don't want to take you. I know. Thank you for spending this much time with me. I is before I go, the thing with onyc, who would it be perfect for that you didn't have on that webinar last night? What audience should be seeing that message or offer?

That's a great question. So this was a net new offer. So we simultaneously built the offer and Built the pitch to sell it. And we made a lot of variables and audibles in the process. That changed as up until the moment I was going live. So I walked in with the idea that the webinar training that I was going to do last night was only going to sell the people that had some webinar experience and some business experience, some success. Right. You know, maybe doing low six figures or even high five figures, perhaps. So it was a very different webinar than I ever did before. And this is what I pulled, Onyx. And this is what I tell clients all the time. I say, hey, listen, this is. I don't know if this is going to work or not. I'm going to. I like to take chances because the worst thing that can happen is we learn something and we can always default into things, right? But. But let's take some chances and see if we can shake things up. So I did a webinar last night where I literally showed. So I have a 15 step webinar process and how I do webinars now. 15 steps.

I'm pumped to watch it. I'm excited.

This is, by the way, the more.

Complicated, the better for me.

This is not advisable to most of you. Stay in your safe. Three secrets. Russell Brunson. Else out there is doing right, but it's 15, 15 different parts of the webinar. And I also taught offers and I also taught audiences. I showed how to create a buyer profile, like really technical stuff. And I showed 15 AI prompts. And these are long prompts for each step of the process. So it was a lot. It was overwhelming in a sense, and it was too much in another sense. And I'm like, I'm going to take this risk because my whole thing was to show them the prompts and then if they buy the product, they get the prompts. Obviously you can just copy and paste them. Otherwise they're going to have to screenshot them and then type them up from scratch. And then on top of that, Nick. And I was very clear about that. But then on top of that, I said I didn't just show them the prompts. I broke down why the prompts were so effective. So independent of me. They can learn better about how to create prompts for their own webinars. And I have some really good examples. So I did all of this and I put this all out there. And this is a $3,000 product to essentially a cold audience. And a lot of it was paid traffic because Onyx bought all the traffic and drove the traffic to it. So I did not expect. And we didn't have hardcore scarcity. I love hardcore scarcity. I love webinar only.

Me too, if it feels right.

And then I can sell for six more hours. Because, hey, listen, when I end the webinar, you can't get this thing anymore, right? So we don't have a timer on the page, we don't have a deadline on the page. The only urgency we had is we had the first 75 who bought onyx team would review their webinar once it was submitted. So it's a good bonus, but it's not like a bell ringer bonus. It's not incredibly, insanely over the top, but it's good. So I'm like, I have no idea how many will sell. In my experience, Nick is the hardest thing I've ever sold in my life is how to do webinars like nobody.

Dude, it's the Olympics. That's why it's so fun.

So it's like. And then using a webinar to sell webinars makes it unbelievably more complicated.

But it does make it congruent, at least with, with the messaging.

It gets in the, it gets in the way of it, right? It's like, you know when somebody says, I'm going to teach you how to be happy and you look at them and the first thing you think, are you happy? You know, if somebody says, I'm going to teach you how to speak eloquently, you don't listen to them anymore. Can you speak eloquently? Right? Like, you know, so it's like, it's difficult. Let's just put it this way. You got to do Amazon on a webinar. Easy. But whatever. All these factors are working against us. So I'm like, I have no idea how this is going to go. We sold out of the gate. 80, at least 80 spots. I want to say 85 spots by the time we wrapped up last night with no real push at a three thousand dollar product. So this is almost a quarter of a million dollars out of the gate. So my answer, and after all that build up is I think it works for anybody at this point in time. And I think we caught some lightning in a bottle. So I'm very excited. But hey, we have a sample size of 1. Hell, I don't know.

Well, I'm gonna, if I can get this out fast enough, I'm gonna ask for five spot reopen at the same price and maybe I'll throw in something If I can find any sort of offer enhancer, which is kind of hard because you, especially you and Anik together, I'm like, shoot. They covered all the basics.

There's a lot of opportunity because we were finishing the product up like a day before. We are also writing the webinar. This is a new product. Like, this is just how the world works. It's not my favorite way, but this is just how it's done. And then when you launch it, then you go and improve it, optimize it, add to it, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a lot of, a lot of margin to optimize and improve it. Funnily enough, Nick, like I told Anna going in, I was like, I'm not going to make many slides for this presentation. And the main reason why is I'm, I'm overworked right now, man. I, I, I am suffering from my own success. I have become too in demand. And I have trouble saying no to really awesome opportunities.

Like, perfect, I'm gonna note that in your file. Yeah, hard.

Yeah.

I can't say no to anything.

I want to rest because I got this huge client that I'm working with and then Alex Ramosi's new book launch, he hired me to help him with that for some consulting. So I want to be fresh for that too. Oh, that's Iman's new. At the end of September, beginning of October. All right. Like, you know, and we're buying a new house and all this kind of stuff. So I'm like, I want to try to take it down a level. So I told on it going in. I'm like, I'm not going to make many slides. You know, that was my initial attitude. But then I started working it at 445 slides later. And so originally our plan was Anik and I were going to tag team the webinar, which I've never done that. And a few times I've tried it. It's hard work. Well, because you have to coordinate the chemistry. You gotta, there's a lot more setup and we just didn't have the time to do that. But once I started unloading it, I shared our Google Doc or Google Slides with their teams. And so they're watching us build this webinar in real time. So my team and I, we wrote this webinar in two and a half days from scratch with AI that was insane. So he's watching it and he says, dude, there's no way I'm gonna have space in this webinar. So he's like, let's just do this. You teach one webinar and then on Monday, I'll do the second webinar because we're recording here was Tuesday last night when we did the webinar. We're here Wednesday. So he's going to come in with his webinar. So I taught all about conversion and psychology and offer structure, and he's going to teach traffic and automation. So it's going to be interesting when we add that to this and then final context. Nick and I know we got a.

Wrap, is no, keep going as long as you want. I like the marathon, too. You're using the reverse psychology on me. What do you mean? I can't go another hour and promote this webinar.

Otherwise I would be more than happy to. None of this was supposed to matter on the live call. Like, this is free money to test the idea. Our whole purpose is to build this for a complete automation and scale over the long term. Because Onyx is really good at building these funnels out that just get, you know, a few cells a day, but they add up and then they snowball into a lot of yes. So this is pure automation. So this is just us testing concepts and ideas out. So this is free. Extra bonus. Okay, cool. So I think we hit something really powerful here. So I'm really excited about that. But again, to go back to the question is I think that. I think the way we did it, which was surprising to me, makes it very qualified to anybody who needs to increase conversion or needs to put an offer out there.