Exposing How Nick Fisher Did $100M Publishing Info Products
Nick Fisher, a growth operator for info-product brands, shares how he achieves a 50% offer hit rate. He starts with mid-ticket funnels ($3k–$12k), measures webinar retention curves before scaling channels, and engineers quick activation moments to cut refunds. Most failures come from partner misalignment or lack of focus, not the product itself.
Questions this video answers
~50%
Over $100 million
About 15–20 failures
~100 in-house and ~100 remote (≈200 total)
$3,000–$12,000
Alrighty, guys, welcome back to another episode where we sit down with true operators, not gurus. People are actually behind the scenes building up the gurus that you know and look up to. And today we're sitting here with Nick Fisher, who I believe is going to take over the Internet marketing space these next six months. I post on X and it's not to glaze or just type him up because he's live here. I actually believe it and I've heard his name for years. He didn't have much content, so I never could find out too much about him. But finally he had that. He wanted to scratch the itch of going public and so today he's here live. Just a little bit about him. If you don't know it's generated over a hundred million across the board for all the brands on his portfolio. You may know pace morby from sub 2 empire, astro flipping, Jamil. He also. I also found out he's behind one of Russell Brunson's offers, which has been running, which we'll talk about a little bit later, and many more. And obviously, I mean, you know, marketing director for consulting dot com. Back to Sam Ovens, just legendary mark in the industry. So you guys are about to listen and learn from the goat. One of the goats and going to be forever. And as long as we're in the space. So enough hyping up Nick. You're gonna impress them with what you're gonna share today. So I appreciate you being here, excited to go through this.
Thank you, D. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better too. It's. It's cool what even just a few weeks of content and me reemerging has done. And I look forward to just continuing to learn from you, man, as you continue to do this.
It's been fun. All right, so you have a 50% hit rate, meaning from offers, you take it from zero to live. Obviously you're behind the scenes, more of an operator on the gurus. You have 50% hit rate. So 15 did really well. It sounds like 15 of them didn't. Why didn't the 15 that failed go well? What happened? If you could sum it up.
If I could sum it up, it would be business. Here are the three main reasons. Let's call it. It's usually lumped under what I would consider business partner issues, because either it's not making enough money for me, it's not making enough money for them, or there is value, vision, misalignment of where, how, what are our ambitions and where do we want to take this product? So it's almost never. Roas are like the business fundamentals. I think maybe of those let's call it 15. I think it's slightly more. I've probably failed somewhere between 15 and 20 times since in the last six years on this stuff. Offer launches almost never like I said two times has it just been like roas sub one let's call it because I launch with paid ads. So that's usually my barometer. The other stuff gets in the way so much of just like there's the initial commitment phase of like cool. I'm gonna put this much time in the business. I always ask the question is this going to be at least your first or second priority? Because I can deal with first or second. I can't really deal with third or fourth. I found out. I thought maybe I could. It's like cool they're doing, you know this, this they're hopefully they're doing like my. My dream situation is it's their second priority in doing the thing that we teach is their first priority. If I look back at all of our most successful brands, that is the common theme. So I want this to be something where they give 20 to 40 hours a week towards and I can give like a full 40 to 60. Right. Plus the team and everything we else everything that we do that is a dream scenario. And then you have a case in like pace where he is so integrated in the two where he's putting in 60 to 80 hours a week on both the same time and we're thinking about how they together. When I look at every other business that failed or even the ones that like semi succeeded the lack of focus is the number one thing. And usually I define lack of focus as third priority or lower.
Yeah, that, that I would agree with you on that. Anytime deals. You said that like it's third or four priorities harder. It's so true. Whenever it's like three. It's just the energy is not the project, the love's not in it. But for people to have context. I know a lot of people kind of know what you do but you're more of the operator behind the scenes. You go to experts and you will own their whole info product business. So you're not just. It doesn't sound like you're just a growth operator. It's like this is your business. Right. And they're just a face talk about that deal structure and what that looks like. Some people watch this might even be interested in. Maybe they're Going to be the next person that you blow up as well. And then we'll dive deeper into more of what you're doing for those people.
Yeah, that'd be sick. Like I said, I'm looking for people that maybe we have a chance to work with in the future or just people who want to learn this type of stuff. I would, I, I guess now self identify as a growth operator. I never called it that when I started because the terms emergent. I feel like people like Eddie Cumberbatch and others have like blown it up as an opportunity. It's a lot of hard work if you guys are listening to this, to try launching someone. It's not that easy of an opportunity. It can be very lucrative, but it's definitely not easy. And it's not even really simple because there's no repeatable process with this. Like, you run into a different issue. I swear, almost every single time. When it works, it's really nice. It's really great. You get a business partner and you get a friend for life. Like, I feel like when I. When I got Pace and Russell and a lot of these other great people who are. But in a lot of cases, it's just like it could be 12 months of headache with you trying to figure out, cool, are we. Are we aligned? Are we doing this? Are we getting this? And usually I, I tell people I have the heuristic. This one's super simple. If I had to boil it down to this is when you meet someone and you want to quote, unquote, growth, operate for them and we do everything else like soup to nuts. I just ask that someone be the expert when they show up. We have a team of about roughly 100 people in house here and then another 100 remote where I'm at here in Arizona. So we have all the infrastructure, um, in order to get someone from 0 to like, let's call it 1 or 0 to 100 really fast. However, it needs to be equally yoked. And I say, like, if I wouldn't. If I wouldn't want to pick up the phone at 9pm or 10pm at night and take a call from this person, then it's not the right fit. Like that. If the person gives me too much anxiety and that's like. And that's. And that's subjective to you. But if you're not going to do that, then you're not probably not built to partner. And a lot of people, myself included, skip to partnering too fast. I got married too fast in a lot of these relationships. And that might be what I'm trying to say. Beyond like the vision, alignment, beyond like are we going to put time commitment in? It's that question of like, do I actually want to spend time with this person? Having a co founder is a lot like having another girlfriend or boyfriend. And if you do this model you end up with like 10 side chicks. Right. Or something like that. So.
Yeah, I'm always like, would I travel? Like would I fly out with my wife and go on vacation with this person and their spouse? Like, would we all like, is it that kind of relationship? Like could we go on a vacation together and not. Yeah, yeah. So dude, that's good.
It's a great heuristic. Yeah, you get in too deep with these people. So you, you want to make sure it's good.
That's great. Okay. So when you're starting with these partners, what financial model are you usually starting with? Are you going launching to their organic first? Are you going to paid first? I know in the interview with Ryan you talked a little bit about the funnels you like to start with. So if anyone hasn't seen that, I'll link it below. I know you shared your screen and talk about that, but just again, what are you starting with financial model wise? And we'll talk about how you kind of come up with the offers as well next. But yeah, I'm curious on that financial model.
Yeah, like anyone out there who's trying to figure it out, I would very much encourage you to find your standardization in the model. So think about. For me it's mid ticket. Like I understand the call funnel and once upon a time me and Sam Ovens used to teach this@consulting.com so mid ticket call close funnel at a price point of between 3 and $12,000. That's what I'm aiming to do with anyone I partner with first. Now if they want to get to a book funnel or they want to get to a super high ticket mastermind or they want to get to like a low ticket tripwire, whatever ish kind of thing, we can do that on P2 or P3. But I always start mid ticket and then build up or I build down, right. A down like a, essentially a descension or an ascension from mid ticket. Why mid ticket allows me personally to practice my deep expertise is and I generally believe that most growth leaders are going to model model market fit their expertise. Which means I see painful problem in the target market. I'm going to find the right product to sell with my model of expertise. Now there's people who do it with channel and they say, cool, what's the problem in the market? I'm going to match my channel expertise and then I'm going to be variable on the model that to me just subjectively has a less of a hit rate than you trying to find model expertise and locking that in as a constant and then figuring out the traffic, whether it's YouTube or Facebook ads or organic or TikTok or whatever, it's going to be right. So you can do it a lot of different ways. And yeah, if you caught the Ryan one, I was like the one that screwed me up the most though is when I just made everything a variable and I was like, cool. Different niche, different market, different channel. Yeah, like that's just dumb. I would obviously I think everyone would know that's dumb. But if you have a few hits and a few like you get the right person in your life and you're like, bro, we're going to make millions together. All of a sudden logic goes out of a window and you're just like, cool. We'll launch on Frickin Zanga in MySpace and then we're going to back into, you know, a 150k mastermind, which I've never seen work and we're going to sell it to baby boomers and we're going to like, it's going to be a subscription like newsletter and we've never done it. Oh yeah, that would just be it be the worst.
That's. I learned that lesson. Luckily it went okay for me. But when I launched because I published Mark Lack and for that we knew the best channel for the.
I didn't know that the personal brand course you launched Mark's personal brand.
So it's one after that. So we actually took over. We launched a new under his face his name because shorten the gap that one. It's just, it wasn't realized like once he exited the company now Mark was out of that. And so I came to Mark, I was like, yo, Mark, let's do this next offer. And so that's where we're teaching the copywriters and agency owners how to go into more of publishing as well. So we're not zero to one. Because you can't teach growth. You can't teach girl operating a newbie. I don't know, like if someone's doing as a biz op. That's so dumb. Like you're just setting up for failure. I will argue that all day long.
Less than 1% success rate probably.
Yeah. But what we found is more teaching the copywriters who already have the skill agent. It's an easier transition over on the side of. Yeah.
So we probably feel like the copywriters lead our go to market efforts now. Yeah, we don't. We don't just. You don't throw someone to the wolves and say, hey, you can lead a product launch that you've never done before without copy or persuasion.
Exactly. So anyways, we were doing. We knew a webinar be great to sell what we want to do what we want to build. I never done webinars. And so it set me back. Like, I took months of studying webinars, Jason Fladlin texting it, like, just dialing in. And we made it work, but it took forever. And I was like, dude, I'm for our next deal. Like, I'm sticking to what I know best, which is just low ticket to call funnel. That's it. I look at all the things that work well, and so I tell people it's like, what have you crushed at? And like, whether it's for a client, whether it's just yourself, just repeat that because you're gonna have confidence too. Because think when you're writing for. Like, I was writing for a webinar. I'm writing copy my back of my head. It's like, I don't know if this is gonna work. I've never done this before, but if I'm doing a load to get a call funnel, I'm like, wait, it worked before. It might work this time. Like, there's more confidence in it. So I like that you say, pick one thing and just whatever you're confident with and just repeat it over and over again.
So, dude, you have to. Yeah, you have to have that constant. Dude, I agree so much. It's funny. You ran into that same issue in problem.
Oh, yeah. And it's like. And then I'm looking at. I mean, there's challenges. Like, oh, challenges. People start talking about challenges, and I'm like, oh. And I'm like, nope. Like, staying away. Staying away.
It happens in masterminds all the time. It's like, if you go to masterminds and people start talking about funnel models that are working, it gets really, really hard for you. Not on a copycat.
Yeah, but if. Here's the thing.
This.
You. You could darklord this. Not saying we should do this, but if you're someone who builds funnels for people and you want to get a mastermind to all hire, you just go in and be flexing one case study of a new phone model. What? Yeah.
Can you balance that out for me?
Yeah.
That reverse book double reverse bind funnel you presented on.
But there is a. Here's the thing though. When it comes to a model, like you said, you start with one you're confident with, but you're adding on other ones later on. You said like to P. Whatever is that stand for part one, two and three or four or like what you got an abbreviation for stacking?
Sorry, that was jargony. Product one, product two and product three. So like I'll move into things that I don't know, second or third after we have something actually working. Yeah, yeah. And the best for me to like get something working is a call close funnel. I have so much margin for how I run and iterate on that it's like near impossible that I fail financially in like a complete failure capacity where we make zero sales. Like if you give me. If you give me the budget to put a hundred calls on the calendar, like we're at least closing one or two. And if we go over a hundred, which like I said, has happened maybe once, definitely twice, where it was roas sub one. That's rare. That's really, really rare. That means that it's so bad that I just. I'm like, all right, it's best that we. I don't even think about why this is. I mean, let's just move on to the next.
Yeah.
Just got this in the mail, actually. Russell's newest sales letter. It's for Thought Leader Live. I don't know if that's related. I've been.
Oh, dude, I didn't get that. Yeah, that's tough. It's physical.
The first thing in there. Yeah, it says, oops, I did it again. How my new funnel let us profitably spend over a million per month. Adds a 3x ROAS. Maybe it's talking about the Prime Mover funnel.
We'll see, bro. It's a hundred percent. It's definitely not the linchpin. But okay, so let's see. We're on. We're on the topic. So you again. I don't. We don't. I don't know if you can talk about it, but you worked on the prime Mover to fill his high ticket back end. Which. That also includes selling online challenge, right?
Yep. Yeah. So selling the online challenge was a mechanism to get people into prime Mover. That offer is. Is a combination of Dan Kennedy's like magnetic marketing course that's in there and also the fountainhead Course by Russell and a bunch of other goodies. So the way I put it is like we wanted to come up with an offer that bridges Basically Russell's got 2 comma club and people that are 2 comma club eligible are like inner circle 25k and up. Right. And then you have everyone at zero commas who is a low ticket buyer. This bridges the, the one comma the two comma like club is the prime mover offer to me.
Okay.
That is a way to get there, help people facilitate that bridge faster so that Russell can, can at least extend them an invitation into his inner circle. Because if you've been there at a funnel hacking live or what will soon be whatever else he's going to do in the future, he is pretty good about just selling or just pitching the mastermind to people who can deserve it or not can deserve it, but who can financially or should be in it. Historically, he did have. Yeah, who deserve it. Right. But like who are qualified. And the people that he didn't serve in the middle were was kind of the gap that we sought to fill with the prime mover offer. So like the curriculum he already had, like he already did all the course coaching work there. So it wasn't like it was for PACE or JAMIA where we were advising on the whole process from product creation to funnel to traffic. We just had to come in and bridge that in between. So a lot of times it's like we have traffic coming in, we're running ads targeting straight into that, but a lot of times they're coming in from the low ticket Russell universe trying to figure out, okay, how do I get to 2 comma club? And the way I wanted to position this offer was could we. Could we basically position this offer as a way, the fastest way to get to 2 comma club, the fastest way to go from 1 to 2 commas. So, okay, that's what that offer pretty much, pretty much stands. And yeah, like, dude, the sales motion, like I said, is different than anything I've ever done. It breaks a lot of the rules that I just said prior to this. And the selling online event was a huge catalyst in the beginning. Now we finally have a standalone that's working beyond that. But up until like a few months ago, that was the primary driver. Yeah. Russell sent a denial service attack against this just so we couldn't get the secrets out.
He said. Ben texted Russ quick, quick, talking about us.
Swamp them with traffic. Send the whole email list to the stream. Crash it.
Yeah, cash it. Okay, let's see if we can continue. But what I was saying is I did not think that selling online challenge would do well just because it seemed too generic, too basic. There wasn't much novelty to it, in my opinion. I thought that my hypothesis was, okay, the people are going to buy that aren't at my awareness in the market. I don't know. But how did you get to the point of that being. The selling point obviously is Russell. So he does have a lot of influence and status. But, like, why do you think it worked well at this time in the market when I thought it wouldn't?
Dude, that's a great question. And I think that's something that Russell just knows deeply about his audience is that I am really, really strong into. It needs a unique mechanism or at least a very like unique value prop in order to sell. So I was trying to lean into the idea that like the idea of even one to many is so overplayed to me. And I was treating the target market like it was me when that still might be like first mover or just novel concept to the people that are still on his list who still haven't made that work. And then there was. There's this component of irony that I thought might kill the offer and the fact that we were selling the idea of one to many without a sales floor. With a sales floor. So to me, I was like, it.
Happens all the time in this space.
It happens all the time. And I forget there's like a backdoor reverse uno card that you can play. Yeah. Where you can just disclose that, hey, like, you know, I'm going to give you the secrets by the way. You know, you can either allude to it, just overtly be like, we're going to sell this at the sales for. You can certainly buy this way. What I'm going to teach you works for me in this promo and it brought me back to consulting.com when we sold the idea for essentially consulting accelerator. Sold the idea for up level and up level. Sold the idea for consulting accelerator. And it was just like these two different models that interplayed. One that sold the idea of fully distributed remote consulting and one that sold the idea of transitioning from done for you to done with you hybrid. Right.
So yeah. Yeah.
It brought me back to that. I'm like, cool. You don't have to be completely, let's say congruent or fully aligned with. Okay. Like the best thing forward is. Is to sell by phone. Okay, we're selling you by phone. Why do you think we do this? Because we sell by phone. We're teaching you to sell by phone. It's a meta lesson. You don't have to go that way. You don't have to go to the metal.
Okay. Another hypothesis on why I thought, okay, this is going to work well is because I feel like in the Internet marketing space there was a lack of optimism because so there wasn't some new funnel. Like there was no novelty coming out and people are kind of like there was nothing new. Like we had call funnels, then we had clients community crushed with group funnels. Everyone's going group funnels. Then school came out and said do recurring. Then we saw that the lifetime of freaking recurring wasn't as good as it seemed to be. And then they're like do annual. And it wasn't really clear. And so everyone's like, what? And then it's like low ticket, no linchpin. I don't know. And then so my thought was like, people are so lost that they're like, is I'm just gonna do this because like I'm gonna. Because there's no hope. Like there's no one to copy. So my thought is like maybe that.
That'S actually a good theory. You're going to make me pull the sales calls after this and listen into a few or just keyword search it because yeah, I think people on model, you're right. There hasn't been this crazy innovation on top of the actual claim. So you need claim and then innovation. But the assessment you just had is exactly right. It's like Sam is trying to make school work. So there is a natural inclination for him to hype reoccurring him and hormones you both.
And it does.
But to get out of the, the average three month retention or like to get out of like 33% churn rates which is standard for info 25 to 33%. Very hard. You can do it. But it's very hard and linchpin. Right. Relies on the fact that you have usually a software or some sort of reoccurring idea in order to parlay into that funnel. If you do it as an affiliate model, then you're losing 40 or 50%. You're losing all the cash margin on top of it. So yeah, there hasn't been. What I always tell our team is like, I'm dying for someone to actually invent the next new funnel flow. That like blows everyone's mind because it will happen.
It's just like, what if. Yeah, I feel like we went from like because of these stages of markets where it's like romantic realism like this and that, whatever. And then we go to like. Yeah, yeah. And so now I feel like we got to a point where novelty couldn't save anybody. It's like you just have to have a good product and good marketing and you could use any funnel. It's just, you gotta have a good. You just had to be good at, which you don't like. Like you don't like that.
Yeah, no one wants to hear that.
Yeah, yeah. But I think every market goes through. It's like you happy like Sam ovens, then traffic and funnels and all the spawnlings under Sam who teach education as a biz op. Inevitably majority of the market is going to fade out because they didn't get into this, become good marketers, got into this demand, make money. So my hypothesis is they're like, frick, like, it's not as easy. I don't want to spend, be a marketing business or a sales business. And I feel like I see so many people like that's what I'm recurring.
I.
They love the idea of recurring. But then they do that and then they disappear. I'm like, well, frick, like, okay, may the best win. But then I feel like selling online. I was like, oh, did Russell find the way like I thought.
Walk me through your wave of questions then.
Yeah, so like this, this offer is not good. It's not gonna sell. I don't. It's basic. I already bought the perfect webinar script. Then it was like you ran a second time. I'm like, okay, people must like this. So I buy the ticket. Then I get confused on how to actually join or when it's happening and it was just too far out. So then I didn't attend it because it was 30 days. Like I joined like the start of the month. So I just didn't attend it. Then there was a. When was that?
Last year?
No, this. No, it was this year.
January.
Two months ago. Three months ago? Yeah, four months ago.
The one, the more recent ones. So yeah, it wasn't a 30 day though. It was a 30 day challenge frame.
No, it was like 30 days. It was still like weeks out till the next one started.
Got you. I thought you meant it. You joined a 30 day challenge. I was like, I don't think we did that.
Yes, Different Russell Reds. Yeah, but yeah, it was super long. And I'm like, as of me, I'm like, well, I don't want to wait because I know there's a pitch at the end. So I See the call funnel, right? Which is. Sounds like that one is. That one that's ripping. You said is can run on its own or you said on top of the challenge is a direct one that's going.
Yeah, there is. It just re. It just launched in the last few weeks here too. There's two different funnel passes prime mover, at least that I am aware of. There maybe is a third. I'd have to talk to Chris. Goofy marketing over there, actually. See, Chris, Chris, can you hear me? How many funnel paths are there to prime Mover sale right now? Two or three now. How many funnel paths? Like they're selling online as a mechanism. Then there's ivsl and then is there anything else? Ebook.
Ebook. A lead magnet.
Okay, cool. Sweet. Yeah. Chris. Chris, our VP of marketing just confirmed there. There's a few more. So there's at least three. Yeah, there's ep. Okay, that's cool.
That. Yeah. So that's my. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna consume this through a different path. So then I went through call funnel and I. But I didn't even book a call because I don't want to do a call. I just want a car. I'm at the point though. I'm so sophistic. I've gone through so much like, just send me the cart and then I'll decide and I'll look at your faq.
Yeah, you're. You're in like, dude, you're in the most aware. Like cloud hop.
Yeah, you. You'd have. I need like a friend like you or Ryan come to me. Like, I joined Iman's program because Ryan was like, there's cool people. And I'm like, okay, I want to be on cool people side. That was it. I haven't. That's it. I was like, oh, I get a.
Different sign pattern than I would say our target market.
Yeah. So. But I think this is a good lesson for like everyone. And that's why I like to kind of hear, like, why you think it worked. Well, it's that. Because it doesn't always have to be the unique mechanism or some new thing, but also what are you doing from a standpoint of helping everyone afford you or helping everyone get to you by having multiple funnel paths. Like, do you feel like we're going there? Is that the next stage where you just have to serve everyone if they want a silver platter? Or is it force people down one path and fit what you want?
I think that you design. You design up front. Like, you know, the funnel path that they're going to take. Like there has to be actual strategy. I don't think it's a strategy to throw everything at the wall and just call it Omni Channel. You can later, right? I mean, and that sometimes works. But then all of a sudden you can't detect the signal from the noise, so to speak. So you have no idea why it's working. And if you have no idea it's working, you can't refine. So then in a world where CPMs rise and frequency of your offer rises, all of a sudden you get washed over and you can't figure out an optimization. That's the, that's, that's what screws you over. So to avoid that, ideally you start with one clear coherent idea, move to the next, move to the next. And if this worked out a little bit, then cool, save it, deprioritize it for later. But you want to find that first funnel path that you can really, you can really focus on. And what I always talk about when we launch offers is if, if I launch an offer, let's just say it's call close or even just webinar straight to direct to cart close. That's even the easier example. So someone gets onto a webinar. What do you typically do in a robust funnel? You have, if they drop off, you have email sequences that hit people who registered but didn't attend. You have email sequences that hit people who attended but didn't see cta. You have email sequences that hit people who saw CTA but didn't book or buy. And in a launch where you really want to get it right, I believe in removing all those. The offer should be at least ROAS positive, or let's just call it MER1L above marketing efficiency ratio above just off of the core offer fundamentals of a straight line sale. Because if you can do that, then you can add in all these optimizations everywhere. You can add an email, you can add an ads retargeting, you can add in JV and affiliate, you can add in referral, you can add in whatever you want ascension on the back end. But if you can't get it to work just by its bare naked straight line path, to me, you don't have an offer. You just don't have an offer that could last more than a couple years.
That's a great. I love that, I love that baseline. I feel like it's gonna help people stay focused. I think a lot of people hearing that's gonna be very important because now everyone can Take a deep breath. They're okay. Focus on one thing at a time, which a lot of people need to hear.
So it's freeing to do that too. Then if you can't do it by your. It's like you don't add more stuff. You just like, okay, the offer is not good enough as a baseline.
Yeah, yeah. Do you still with the webinars you're running for your brands, are you still studying like voice inflection points at different things or like how deeper Sam, or because it's live, do you. Because a lot of people are really good presenting alive. So do you do most your webinars live like, or how much studying do you do at this level or people on your team?
Hopefully everyone is doing a little bit more like what I used to do 10 years ago. Here's what I do though, like for Pace and everyone else is I study drop off points. So if it's a live webinar, there's always this retention curve. If you look for any VSR webinar, it looks like it'll look like the COVID curve where you have this like flattening of the curve right where you get to mass and at that point, that's the point you want to start to study is when did we hook people to where they would have stayed to the end of the presentation. You normally determine this point because it becomes reverse exponential. Imagine like this is minute zero right here. Yeah, I think I'm reverse. I'm on the right side of the screen or the left side of the screen for you.
You're on my right, but I'm on your right.
Okay. Imagine in reverse like this, right? And then you hit this part where it becomes linear or just gradually linear and there's 1% drop off until usually the CTA and then you have another dip. Those are the two dip points you have exponential in the first few minutes until you get them hooked and they go, okay, I understand. Why me? Why you? Why us together? Why what this presentation is about? I'm a stick, so I studied this point first, this inflection point. And then I worry about this point, usually later, the one at CTA where people fall off because they heard the offer and they're like, okay, sweet. That one is more of the conversion point, more so than the fall off of attention. So I study this one for pace and anyone I normally if we're watching it all together in a war room setting like we were a few weeks ago, I. I'm like timestamp here, like right at this inflection point. Let's study and talk about in the meeting why I think we flatten the curve here, right? And it normally, it normally corresponds to normally the hero story or some semblance of a tease to the hero story is when you finally get someone to flatten the curve. So the quicker you get into that hero story, people will always tell you in the car, like chat comments. And it's a red, it's not a red herring, whatever the word is. It's like a false, it's a false signal because people always say like skip the hero story. Like I've heard this a thousand times, blah, blah, blah.
You have to. Yeah.
And then marketers, uninformed marketers will make decisions based off of that. There's a reason why there's tried and true stories like that. Even Russell will tell about hero story. Old versus new, internal objection, belief story, external objection, belief story. Those are usually what flatten the curve. Sometimes it's like you hitting finally a series of social proof, authority, reciprocity, hook to the end, blah, blah, like those in combination like get it to flatten. But it's usually a story, like getting into the story finally that gets someone to sit back and be like, okay, I'm here for the ride, right? It's just going to be a gradual. And then the other points that I usually like, a few weeks ago, Pace lost maybe like 1 or 2% of his audience in just one thing he said, just dipped real quick like from 2,500 people on the webinar to like let's say 2400. So anytime that I'm like, whoa, we just lost 100 people in the middle of it. Like 45 minutes in an hour in.
It's pretty big.
I don't have time to think of it in that moment. I just timestamp that. Let's talk about that later. So that's, that's how I get it with. So the case in point, the lesson learned here is if you're using Wistia or Vimeo, like, or vitalytics, look at your drop off curves like, yeah, you're.
Pretty much the Mr. Beast of webinars.
Yeah, me and Mr. Beast would get along so well, we'd just be sitting there looking at the retention curves.
You should just like pay him to come and do like an in person consult and have him look at a webinar. I'd be so curious what like an entertainer would do to a webinar because he's so good at like open hooks and loops.
So Good. Do you have the Mr. Beast guide to production?
Yeah, I, I studied like all.
Yeah. Like he cares. He cares so much about that. What the first five or first three seconds with that micro frame is too. And I care about that on a webinar because people have this expectation that you're not going to hook them in two seconds.
No. Yeah. You're like, hey, you know what's up? Welcome.
Yeah, you like 30 seconds to two minutes of just like put twos in the chat or like whatever else, you know you're doing at that stage. To think of Mr. Beast doing that. He would probably be intense, dude.
Yeah. Or he would he just say, hey, stay the end. I'll give you $10,000. Last person to leave the webinar every time.
Yeah, yeah, I saw, I've seen people. I won't say who on an auto webinar say in the first like five seconds, hey, I'll be giving an iPad away at the end of this webinar. I'll be sure to pick someone live. And I have no idea if it was actually live and they just hybrided it where they came back and picked someone. But that type of stuff. Yeah. Does work giveaway, bro.
What? Yeah. What if it was last person to leave the webinar wins. That be crazy. You say like, hey, that would be sick.
That'd be a Mr. Beast type challenge of. Yeah. Like him being buried. Buried alive for seven days. Yeah.
Last leave circle wins this. But it's like last leave this webinar.
By the way, there'd be people that were. Would set up like mouse movement software or whatnot, just not to get kicked off. I could see that happening, dude.
But okay.
Bad idea though. Josh. That's. That's pretty good.
Yeah. Because you just. The thing is. But people stay on the webinar for a very long time, bro. What I'll do. Because I was curious because Jason Flavin was like, people stay on so long. So I finished, I went for three hours and I said, all right guys, see you later. And I just turn off my mic and camera and sat there and they stayed forever. Nothing was playing.
Dude, it's weird.
It's weird, but I think. But I think at that point my thought is. So I know Ryan told you about a event. Did you look into that ever?
I did. I looked into it right away after and someone had told me about it before. Do you guys use a. Yeah.
Winter, the founder met him in Dallas. It is hands down. He needs to launch an offer around 1 to many selling and Then make his platform the utility. Because it is so good. Because the simulated live zoom. So Ryan was saying like, oh, it looks like zoom. No, it is zoom. So it's. Look, it's a zoom meeting and then it's a zoom link. Everything but it. It's like broadcasting your webinars. It feels live. We do a live. I don't do any of that.
Is it. Is it a container then? Or is it just a UI UX overlay?
No, it's zoom. It's zoom and it's like, it's like. So Nick Fisher's like, it's your meeting.
Then what? It's. It's a zap. It's an integration into zoom.
I don't. He's. Winter's a genius. It integrates in like 80 tools. I don't know how he does it, but I think the real power of it is the. The. There's one link for everything. So he has like everyone gets a custom join link which tracks all the data so you can create custom audiences based on when people jump off.
The zoom meeting right now that would be huge.
You would print. It's crazy. I don't even know how. It's one link. So then it's like, let's say someone clicks the link, they didn't join live, but at a certain time you push into the replay right away or the encore. So it's one link. So they click any link they received. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, it just makes it easiest for all of us non Cody people to do it. But what was I saying? Oh yeah, people stand. So my thought is what if. If they're gonna stand forever. What if we just start playing like a long form YouTube video after. What if we put on like the next thing stream, like just keep going. Like.
I keep forgetting the term. What is. What is the. What is the streamer term for. For when they're live, pushing people to the next live?
I don't know. It's. What is it?
I forget what it is, but I saw Kaisenat use it one time. He's like, we're gonna raid this next chat.
Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's a streamer. Yeah, Raid. Yeah. You go pass off your viewers. Yeah, dude, that'd be. But the nice thing is like a event is you have like a secret. So it looks like almost like cap cut where you can just layer in. So I think you could just go forever. So I don't know, I've never tried it. I'm just, just ranting. I need to Know that'd be so sick.
That's a great hat tip. Now that you said that and. And Clyde said that. I'll check it out. Because we run into this every time. We can't even get. I don't think analytics right now between people like peak attendance rate versus just overall attendance. Oh, off between the two.
Yeah, you can see it.
Yeah.
Like I see like the drop. And as a report, I put a chat vt and then I can be like, study this. And then you can put in your webinar recording when they drop. Why do you think? So you could just like have ChatGPT.
Probably analyze the actual video frames too.
It can. Yeah. Because if you put Sam.
Transcript.
It's a transcript. So you could put it. I don't think. Yeah, just.
Yeah, because like the non verbal stuff is important, but generally speaking, the transcript, they can correlate to some sort of. Probably on screen.
Yeah. Okay, so enough about that. I want. People are gonna be like, josh, let your guests talk. I know Ryan got flamed once. Cause he interviewed me and he's like, let your guest speak. So back to you. Yeah, back. Back to you with the webinars. We're doing a lot on webinars. I want to talk about like. Like how. What changes from a front end webinar to essential webinar on the back? And the framing, the structure, is it the same like the overall structure of webinar? What changes?
This isn't my area of expertise, but we did do basically 17 million off one Ascension pitch on our live event. But keep in mind we've never done Ascension before and we had waited five years to just our mainly let's call it 60, 70% customer audience at a live event to do that. So I don't. I'm still learning what that looks like from Ascension webinar motion. I think I mentioned maybe it was with Ryan recently. If you guys end up finding me in his talk, I talked about just watching Dean do that last week because he's so brilliant at doing one to many off Ascension. And so is. And so is Brunson. Like Brunson does that have fhl. So we kind of stole that from Brunson. Of like, what does that pitch look like up until. Yeah, you're doing it a live event. The core elements that I think are most important. Let's go with the most important element is like, did you service the student? Well, yeah, it's like way overstated. We jumped right into tactics of like, this is how I framed it, blah, blah, blah. But mostly it's like, did you actually do a good, good job? You're not ascending more than 10% of the room. If you didn't do a good job, it'd be crazy. So keep in mind, like, up until this point, like, people like Pace, when we did that, had done physical meetups. Like, if you go to. Where is Pace? Morbi?
Where is pace?
Actually, where's pace.com? i'll put it in the chat if you don't have it. Like, this is the level of commitment that we did leading up to an Ascension. And, like, next year. I don't know if we're gonna do this. This isn't confirmed, but Pace wants to do a deal, help a student do a deal in all 50 states in 100 days leading up to our next live event where we may make an offer to Ascend. Um, and if he does that, the Ascension rate should be wild because it'll completely kill our number one external objection, which is, this doesn't work in my area. Like, it'll actually just dismantle that one argument. So if he does that, then that's magic, right? I don't have to do much. I can just be like, well, just that. Let's support that effort. But beyond that, like, the things that matter is. I think doing it too soon is people feel like they didn't get the thing that they actually wanted to buy, and they feel a little bit misled doing it too late. You risk your best students actually going off being successful, forgetting about you in the community. We risked that ladder, and I think that probably happened. We didn't get a lot of the initial people that were successful that missed out on this movement that we created. Yeah, I think probably the key to an Ascension is doing it in cohort and not just ascending everyone at one time. That's fine. It's a way to simplify. But I would say think about the value or the promise of your offer to get to x in 90 days, 30 days, 60 days, and aim for that being the ascension point, and then aiming for some sort of short pass or VIP fast pass to people and offering it one to one over the phones. If you have that ability to people who trigger or get there faster. That's what I would suggest is especially I've learned from Cole Gordon, being his mastermind. I always, always, like, wait for Ascension. If we promise a result in 30 days, don't pitch before then. He was like, no, get him on the phone. Get him to an activation point on day five. Just pitch him on that. He's like, that's fine. And me having bought from Cole like before the quote unquote point of ascension, I was like, yeah, you're right, that's wise.
That's true.
That's my thing. The biggest thing you can do when you sell someone into the program if you're either a growth operator or the guru and themselves listening to this is you have your explicit promise of the course. Like get to X outcome in X amount of time normally. Right. Explicit or implicit, if you get them in aha. That's not even that result. That gets them to a point where they wouldn't refund anymore. We call it the activation or aha moment. At that point, it's probably right to be set to either closer or set to a webinar in order to pitch on an ascension or at least invite them to it in a soft way. So I'm trying not to make any sort of broad strokes like general advice here because I think it's so situational of when you should do this.
Yeah. What.
But yeah, there is. You should look at it through because.
Do you engineer in activation points? Because one thing I found is like, yeah, okay. Because like I feel like you. Some people think like, oh, do I have to like let's say it's a make money or okay, let's just say it's relationship and it's like get your first date or you're like, it's your girlfriend. Right. And you think after the activation point. But I sometimes found I'll bring it closer. So it's like get a positive reply or like the date is booked, you know, like because is that how do you. Or how did you come up with the activation point for yeah pace or for Jimmy, like what did that look like?
So what you have is like your core promise is get X in X time or Y time.
Yeah.
And then from there I usually have five hypotheses as the milestones. I think in milestones of getting them there and then usually what it's going to end up being is not one of the five things that you thought of. It's going to be something you're dang, that was simple. I just have to get them there and they don't refund. So what I look for is over time if I get someone X. Yeah. Easiest one for info that I can give you. This one does apply for every offer I've done. If you can get someone after they buy your program to introduce themselves in the group and get replied to 90% of the time, they won't refund it. Like if you have a refund problem or your refund rate is over 10%, just do that. That's it. That's the solution. It'll work. Promise.
So you said get them to message another member or give them a reply.
That's, that's the next step. That's step two. So first step is get them to introduce themselves in wherever your community is, whether it's wap, whether it's Facebook groups, and then get another member to reply to them saying, hey, saw you, welcome to the group, blah blah, blah. That's it. That's the two step.
Have you ever, have you ever done it where you have them get an accountability partner?
Yeah, we do that. We do that a lot. We, we are so heavy on community led growth where. Look at this, this is probably my favorite thing. I'll drop it in the chat for you so you can maybe you can throw it up and post whatever. So get creative is us for sub 2. We take it one step further. We not only sync up people with accountabilities, but we have student leaders and then we get them. We encourage our students after they do a deal to film a podcast with another student now. And then we post it on this map so that you can see this giant map of where people have done deals are.
So that's so sick.
Thank you. I think so you're like, I.
Like these are those like I feel like I need to. I'm. I'm inspired by this because I feel like I have these crazy ideas. Not like this, these are crazy. I mean like little things. Like when I say like, oh, it's like last to leave, like whatever, like that. And then I'm like, I never do it. So like, oh, that's just a distraction. But like things like these are like little at scale. They have big lifts.
Points are never the distraction. In fact, activation. I think if you're thinking of acquisition, conversion, activation, retention, referral, ascension, if you want to put your mind in the best place where you can do any of that, you think of activation. Because after you activate, you can do anything you want. Like you can ascend people. You can get them to refer students, you can get them to help with the conversion. You can have them say, hey everyone who is on the phone this week, could you just hop on and get them over the line? Right? You can have them refer post to their friends. Friends and aid in the acquisition effort. So activation to me is the secret to any other person. If you just focus on that.
That's so far If I like someone asking Josh, what is the one thing you learned from this? It's going to be this for sure. So I mean thinking like Crickstar low ticket offers. That's like the. A low ticket product is activation like the whole point. Like you said. Aha. Moment or moment or activation point doing something.
Yep.
And a webinar obviously the same thing. But I just stress. I love that even more. Have you tried quiz funnels to activate people at all yet?
People always as a team.
I've bro. I'm bullish on quiz funnels right now. I haven't done it but I'm like.
And the team is, the team is too. Like we have, we have customized quiz logic that routes you in different paths.
Yeah, yeah.
Me like personally boots on the ground. I've only done Fox quizzes where they all end up in the same place.
Yeah, same. Right.
You're adding, you're adding complexity in this funnel and all these multiple routing. Think about, okay, multiple sales paths and everything else. But it's a good idea. It really is. And AI personalization will probably make it easier for everyone to do all these like crazy personal.
Yeah, the crazy webinar show show rate. At least in my market we're doing copyrights agency owners abysmal. Just they don't they already I think because they know what it's like.
Converts so well.
Like like 20 show up rate. But I think it's my time of day. I think time of day fix it because with my lifestyle, my schedule, I just, I know I'm not doing optimal time. Sometimes we have 15. We just did one like a new test, a new one and we had 10. But I think it was time of day. I'm curious, what are you doing from a webinar show rate? Does time of day. Is that the biggest factor? And also if everyone's freaking doing a webinar Thursday, 8pm EST, is that bad? Like when do we get to a point where it's like there's three webinars going at once, you know?
Right.
So it's like everyone's running the same freaking day. And so these are a big scale. And I'm like, I've text. I opt in to webinars. I have like four people texting me. I know it's because I'm a fiend and I'm opting into everything.
But when are you starting to promote it? Is it more than three days out or less than three days out?
Four max. Yeah.
Then that shouldn't be less than 72 hours. Is best practice for me. But that shouldn't be the make or break reason. If.
But like, think. How do you do it, though? Like, let's say you're running a Thursday webinar.
Yeah.
Friday hits and you have ads running. Do you turn ads off until then? You start it back up on Monday and then you. So, like, is that enough time so it doesn't go to learning phase or just let them run? It's like, ah, frick the people. Probably forget.
Yeah. Usually what we do is we ramp ads sequentially or not sequentially. Sequentially, we ramp ads maybe exponentially three days before. So let's call it, oh, 10% of your budget three days out. 40% of your budget, two days out. Oh, okay, 50. That's not quite exponential. That's bad math. But you guys know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
It's. It's. Let's say it's. It's. It's more than linear and it's more than. It's less than exponential. Ram 72 hours. That's the fundamentals of it. However, like, you're too low even for that. So it probably is time of day related. Have you ever surveyed your target market and just asked them this simple question? Everyone who didn't attend, say, hey, were you at least in. Interested in attending? Yes or no. And just get in. Yes or no. Just keep it that simple. And for the ones that say yes, I was at least interested. Just call them, dude. Like, it's. It's that simple. And then figuring out, hey, they're like, oh, no, like I've worked during this time period. Or like this. Yeah, it's most likely where I. It's time of day, and it's different between target markets. If you're selling biz op and you're selling biz op to 50%, people have nine to five.
Yeah, you got. You can't do it during the day.
Exactly.
But I think it's. It's weird because one of our offers, it's pure freelancers and copywriters. So, like, they don't have a job maybe. But they. Yeah, yeah, maybe they're like doing client work, then they have client calls building. So I don't know.
I know that first question buckets them into two different types of people. People who are at least interested. And I say, like that language where you at least interested in attention.
True.
Webinar.
True. That's sick. I like that survey quiz funnel time. And I'll route them and.
Yeah, exactly you can do all the.
Encore and then it'll be we got an encore for you. Do people watch like replay sequences? Is most of your money still being made in the replay when the cart's closing?
Yeah, we had dude and we ran the auto webinar consulting had the best data for that. I want to say off the top of my head after someone 2 time 2x no shows, they're almost dead to you. Almost dead. Like 2%. 2% or less of our revenue came from 2x or more no shows.
So then you're doing a live and encore and then frick you correct.
Live encore, limited time replay, close out, reopen in three days, close out again.
And that's, that's, that's still tried true today.
You're still man, that like almost never goes I was style.
It's crazy.
There's a lot of stuff in marketing.
I feel like why do you think web dude webinars is that one funnel that I feel like is never going to stop working.
It won't, it won't ever die out.
Because the only is it the numbers that frick you like cost per lead click and show is that what fricks.
You screws you over is like the rising cost of advertising generally is what chokes people out. But the idea that like webinars are dead is hilarious to me. It's like saying infomercials are dead and then looking at TikTok live selling and just being like, well it's the same thing since the 80s and 90s. Like Billy Mays was doing the same thing and now it's cool if you live sell on tick tock. It's just the frame has changed. But the idea being live and selling to you is, is like as old as probably like the Bible times, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's like Sermon on the mount or anything else. Did one to many in person.
Yeah, exactly. And I like how you said earlier just kind of call back like hero's journey. Don't take that out because it's funny. We did a webinar. I tried to do Mark as the face for the offer and we did a few but his hero's journey wasn't relatable enough for the audience.
Well that makes sense.
So yeah, shout out to Mark. I was like, I was like. I thought. I was like, oh, they're gonna. He's sick. He's a baller. He's got his family. He's doing this. Like they're gonna think it's so cool and they're Gonna buy.
It's appealing to me. I think Mark's a good dad. Like I love when he like he's the cliff his daughter around in the Lambo.
Yeah. You're like, frick this dude.
It might not be relatable to everyone though. I get that.
And so. So then we switched it to like my spur. Like we say can you say a mine where it's just like first hundred dollar date this that everyone's like, dude, like it worked wherever I'm like classic. Like I should have known. But again you don't. But I like how you're reestablishing that because I always thought just skip to the hero's journey. You don't need that.
That's your conversions tank. It happens.
Hey, where you're having the webinar. Have you. I see Dean, those people, they'll go like to YouTube. And my thought is it's probably because you can't put that many on a zoom call. Probably break. I don't know. Maybe you can. Is. Do you think people choose that strategically that they're doing it outside of zoom or other places or is it that.
Question myself recently and I want to say like Dean, doesn't he keep it on the whole time? Like what we do is we cut it off about 45 minutes in. We push. We gate it so that YouTube live or YouTube stream never sees the offer. And then we push them in to the zoo.
How do you. So you just end. You just always end it. Yeah.
Pace gives like a two minute warning essentially of just like hey, we're gonna cut off YouTube here soon. So if you're watching YouTube get into the zoom. That's worked for us. But I don't know. It's hard to know if like that's smart. The impact of that. I guess we could track show.
How do you track show like Your Peak on YouTube and then see what.
Well, without a event. Hopefully a event sponsors you here.
I think. Okay. I think I sent a few words. They haven't billed me in a while, so I'm. Hey Winter, if you cancel my. I appreciate you bro. Maybe that's why. But yeah. I hope you know. But yeah I wonder if they can. I don't think dude, soon they're doing a VSL option too where it'll be. You can track drop offs there to mail them as well. Which will be sick. That's the next. And then. But anyways I'm not here. I'm not even affiliated. Oh shoot. Also how many people do you have on your team?
Like 200.
Why would you do that? Like what? What? Like, I respect it. But like why like what are you getting out of it?
When you want to publish as many offers as you have this ambition work, you have to just do one.
Why not be like Luke Kish and just have one and like. Because here's thing. I'm like you. I want a bunch. But I know I like, I know my limits and I also know my lifestyle. I want with my wife. My. Like I. So I understand what I want now. But I look at something like you, I'm like, dude, that'd be great. Like, but what is it for you? Why do so many. Why not just focus? Because I hear just focus. And so I'm like do whatever. So I'm curious your argument for that.
Yeah. And I. And like I give that advice too. When I was a consulting that's all we did. So I always joke that like I left.
Yeah.
And then just proceeded to follow none of my advice that I used to give.
Yeah.
It's because I got like an ego about and I thought I could do anything with how I started. And then what I found too is why it's hard to consolidate right now is that we did. We eliminated a lot of brands this year. Even shut down down stuff that was semi profitable. We shut down brands that are profitable multiple times. So we're still trying to consolidate. Is the answer because is everything. So.
Yeah.
Don't let what I did or the mistakes I met get in the way of like the lesson I learned again for like the 10th time in my career that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a force multiplier. And the team though is intentional. Like the team is a moat and I have the stomach. Like I love that. I don't necessarily want the location, freedom, lifestyle anymore. I used to. There was a bright.
Aren't you married?
Yeah. But like I love being here. I love being in office. I don't feel chained to it. I feel like we built a company that's a reflection of me and Josiah and our personalities and how we operate. So to me it's. It's like fun. It's fun to be here.
Yeah. That's cool. That's cool.
I like that you don't. Yeah. You don't need to like at all. There's like really high leverage info businesses that exist with less than 10 employees. It's very possible they can all distributed. Yeah.
But yeah, I do see like the moat that it brings like that that is pretty intense of like a moat to have and like, if you can do it, like, there's only a few player built for it and you obviously are the person. That's what makes you so good. But yeah, I was curious, like, because everyone, like, you know, Mr. Beast, like, why would he do that to himself? But it's like he gets something out of it to keep some hooked to it. It's like for you, emotionally, what are you getting? Did you, as a kid, you like something? Like what? Like what are you getting from it?
That's a good question, I think. Here's, here's. Am I. Am I glitching out now? I was going to give you a tour. I'll stop. Yeah, you're.
You're glitchy.
All right, then what I'll say is that I, what, What actually motivates me and what I constitute, what I'm trying to do in life is I'm trying to collect people in my life. I try to hoard knowledge. I try to afford, like, money. I try to say I tried to do this and the other. But what I really found I'm doing is collecting experts and collecting experts in the amount of great people I can have in my life. And having a company allows me to crack more. More great people around me. So there it is. That's the fit for me. Yeah.
Yeah. There's always something that's always like to ask. I'm like, what? What is it? I have to ask that too. Because some people may watch.
Yeah. Why?
Yeah, it takes you a while. Yeah, yeah. And there's like, people might watch this, but, oh, I'm gonna do it. I mean, like Nick. And build a company. But then I like having people share why they have it. Because then some might hear that, like, wait, I don't really care about collecting people. I actually care about this. And then, then they don't get themselves.
Yeah, right. Like, having a big company isn't a flex. It leads to more. More problems. Like, more process. If you don't generally love having the people around you, then I definitely wouldn't do it. It's not like it's. It's not cool to have a building with like your name on it or anything else, or a lease with, you know, $30,000 in rent or whatever it is. Right. So per month. It's not. Not cool. If you don't want it, don't let other people. Yeah, no, other people's flexes, like, get in the way of what you want.
Yeah. 100. That's great. Why haven't you done low ticket, dude?
That's a great question. Maybe we should work together. Maybe the next question. Do you want to come on to my YouTube show now and then we can discuss.
All right, so I'll send the invoice. Yeah. No, but I was curious. It's like. I mean you. Okay. You actually have. You did selling online challenge. So you have done low tick.
We do some low ticket. It just comes in. Like I said it's normally the second or third priority within a brand. Yeah.
I found a way and we'll talk. We can just on your channel open loop. People go subscribe to you on YouTube. But biz op I found until recently doing low ticket was hard because there's so much you have to do change work to get someone bought into wants to take a step to make money in a certain model. I know a lot of the offers you've worked like real estate this and that. There's not as much time on a low to get funnel like on the marketing side get even someone to buy like even a low ticket product and actually consume it. That's the issue I ran into. That's why biz op I'd always do a webinar and then for other things. But there is a way that I found does work. Well do you feel the door which we'll talk about on your channel so you can go subscribe.
Let's do that. Yeah. Come over to my channel. Let's. Let's do it soon. Because a rock for this quarter of which is in September 30th is to figure out what the next low ticket is.
Yeah. And just like most I think it's activation. Obviously at the day it's like you need to sell something quickly activate what it comes down to. But yeah. Yeah. Anyways there's there which you already have down. But I was curious like why you had into the past. But obviously you stick to what you know it sounds like and just rip that.
That's. That's it. It's about focus. I gotta get my focus somewhere because it's certainly not a number of projects. So I gotta. I gotta get it somewhere. I can't like chase other funnel models.
Well dang dang. Have you gotten to. Have you done any health related offers yet?
Nope, haven't done that either.
So are you industry specific too? Like is your focus point where it's like same market and back the same funnel.
Correct.
Just stay in that markets.
I'm familiar with biz op products sales call funnels scale to product 2 and.
3 where outside of with the money you make from this. Where are you investing in? Where does it go?
I'm sure.
Are you like Mark? Yeah. You have bitcoin too detail.
I told him, I was like, bro, what are we launching your bitcoin course then? That's where I'd like money into is the launch of your bitcoin product. Like what we do is invest money into our next launch. That's the truth. Right now I have been like in stocks, I have been a little bit in crypto, but not much like to me I just reinvest in business.
Yeah, it's because like you just love what you do right now so much you want to split your attention.
Well, it's not that that's. Well, kind of what I want to do is be able to not have to take outside money. And with info businesses, you don't need a lot of money to start them, but you do need somewhere between. We invest somewhere between 10 to 150k in another launch of a another product and you can imagine over the course of 30 products how much money that would cost and some subsequently sunk into those launches. So we all like cash time.
Yeah.
So that's, that's what I'm doing with my money right now is reinvesting into the business. There will be a season soon, probably within the next 10 years where I won't do that. I'll probably try to actually use capital leverage in a bigger way than what I'm currently doing.
That's smart. Have you been like most or have you tried to dabble into software with any brands portfolio?
Yeah, we have. That's the one thing. Has it worked? Yeah, it has. The reason why we've done the smart play we have right now five or six of our brands are in SaaS. I have a SaaS model and what we generally do is on product two or three or four for a certain brand, we think about what is the major product, our pain point that we can solve with software and can we find a technical co founder. So in all, let's say five or six of those, we have prop AI, Movable AI, Dialos AI.
Wait, you have Poppy AI.
Prop P R O P AI.
Oh, I think Poppy.
I was like, no, I do. I wish I would have retired just now after acquisition. All right, so we have PROP AI. Prop AI is AI Setters, Movable AI is AI Book builders. Dial OS is AI for setter teams. If you have a setter team, we have analytics intelligence for that. And then we have deal sauce which I forget what the domain is.dealsocks.IO. Yep.
Huh.
And then I'm blanking on a few, maybe one or two others here. But yes. Usually like a few of those are sold to our real estate audience, but all of them came from a pain point of us selling info products to our market and just developing it from there and pre selling the idea generally.
Okay.
Yep.
Smart. Yeah. So it's attaching a utility to the process.
Yeah. And it's not our bread and butter. Like all of them are over or about. At least at the 4. About a million dollars. ARR. None of them are over 10 million. ARR.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep.
Would. Do you think it's possible to exit any of the brands you have?
Yes. But not an evaluation. That's attractive.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like what. What Mark got, I won't disclose because I don't know if he's public about it.
He has, but.
Okay. All right. And I still don't want to spill the tea too much on.
Yeah, yeah.
What he got is pretty much the high end of the market, I would say.
Yeah. That was like in. He even knows it's pretty like.
Yeah.
That's the only thing. Like, praise God. You're like, hey, thank you.
Yeah. Like, if we could get the value that he got on some of our info brands, I would have sold. I would have sold a few of them.
It's crazy what he did. I'm always like, mark, he's so good.
He's a magician sometimes, bro.
He's a magician. Yeah. But yeah, because everyone's like, software. We'll put software in our thing and we have a big, big. We're doing low ticket for a big brand, doing 4 million a month. And they have software and they're like, we want to have software. Big parks want to exit. And I'm like, okay. It's got to be like, I don't know. Like, I just see so many times I've tried it and yes, it kind of makes it more attractive. But then it's still like the software only makes sense because the biz op and the biz op uses the software. It's not always like use case out of it.
It doesn't make the whole business like EdTech, unfortunately, and trades it at multiple. So we will probably maybe exit some of the software plays that we have. That's possible. We already have interest in a few of the ones that I just mentioned there at certain valuations that would trade at your typical SaaS multiples. But the info and like parlaying that into the SaaS and then calling it SaaS that to me is probably more of a pipe dream.
Yeah 100%. Well glad you're saying hopefully people listen save themselves.
If you're building these businesses you ideally should be building info businesses for the cash flow and what you do with that whether you reinvest into your infrastructure more brand launches like I'm doing like hey you know keep my chips on the table or whether you're pulling the chips off and starting something else or investing the crypto or whatever else those moves you have at your option. Just don't let people sell you on the idea that you can sell like personal brands at 10x e but because I have seen no evidence of such such a thing.
Yeah no I same like yeah, I'm glad you're saying it when it comes I love what you said when you're talking about with Ryan how to start. You said like to start you can get away just being like the growth like just have the face and then you as a growth operator set and close deals and do all the marketing. The next level would be having like a done for you sales agency and then you go like you can stack the team there past that what's like the mid size because like for people in my shoes I like keeping it lean. Like we keep lean where it's like funnel designer who's also CTO media buyer done through sales agency. Me and the expert.
Yep. Dude that's my bare bones minimum viable. Yeah I I like to have let's call it three people under you. If as the growth operator is a good clean play where you have a head of product ahead of sales and ahead of acquisition and that acquisition head could be your media buyer. The head of sales could be your sales manager slash player coach. The head of products could be your community manager slash course curriculum design. Those three essential roles that if you don't play them someone's got to.
Yeah that's fair. That's. Yeah I like that because I feel like that's enough room but past that like what's the net the next level like yeah like you're leveling up past let's say you're more aggressive and you're like someone wants a really Dude, I.
Have done like go to market teams of eight. Even one that me and Mark crossed paths when with Sigma Society with Bilzerian which we both were involved in helping to launch that yeah that team I think was probably even a little too big. Where people like Wire Scott crossed anything more than eight is definitely too big to launch these brands. You end up Getting in your. You get in people's way more than you do actually help. Yeah. With someone of that size though, you want to add in maybe someone who can do visual branding and visual marketing because that's so important to honor the reputation of the existing brand.
True.
That comes into play. Other than that, you really don't need anyone else other than maybe someone who sits and runs project management. So I'll add that too. It's like a pm.
Yeah, we got like a VA for that even. And they've been right.
I mean if it's a good enough va, they can sit in any of those seats. But yeah, when you think of, you think of less than 5 typically and you have a growth team and then you have someone who's heading up hack, you have someone who's heading up the sales of the monetization of it and you have someone building a product and that's about it.
That on one of your YouTube videos you had you data based or researched like 20,000 courses and have all this like data and stuff like that.
Huh?
Yeah.
How.
Why did you make that in the first place? Did you. Were you just like curious, having fun? You use that tool in your process?
I, I look at it almost every day. I looked at it a couple hours ago. So what, what I end up doing.
Are you gonna sell it? Are you gonna sell that data?
I don't know if I can. Like, it's internal. It's not because we do database it. You're right, I could sell it. I never thought about it because I use, I use a bunch of third party spy tools to, to basically. Yeah. Inputs into the database. But yeah, we could sell it. However, it's a competitive moat for us and an advantage. So I always tell people like, you want me to spot check and look someone up, I will. But I don't just like turn loose the actual. To anyone.
Good answer.
Yeah, because the static statics are cool. Like if you're like, hey, send me the database for this month. Amazing. I'll send that to you as a friend and it helps us figure out what markets we potentially want to enter. Because in this space to tell me if this is hit for you, it's like you go to a mastermind or whatever else and someone's like, it's crushing right now, blah, blah, blah. And then you go and verify something and you're like, okay, no it's not. So what I use it for is primarily figuring out, okay, I identify markets and then identify things that I possibly could sell in. So to Me like it needs to be an eight figure potential market. So I need to see a comp in an eight figure business plan. Like for instance if it was Amazon KDP which we published in a few years ago we saw the Mickelson Twins and publishing.com as like a multi 8 figures maybe even potential 9 figure at your peak comp. From there it's like what range of all KDP brands are selling is the price range.
Okay.
People are selling things from 19 all the way up to $8,000. That means a mid ticket price point. Therefore we initially verified that market demand. Yep. So that's. That's my primary use case. My secondary use case is just like finding funnel funnel hacks and like I said a lot of times I just go through it. I'm like oh that's interesting. I'll save that for a rainy day.
Yeah, yeah.
Really seem to be making this funnel. Maybe it's a product two or three after we initially get traction because to me I'm not trying to screw up traction. Like it needs to be a mid ticket price point for me at first and then from there I'll have some fun. I'll try some stuff I haven't done before.
That's cool. Yeah. Not that that kind of data I feel like it's huge. Like it kind of just prompts the mind. I feel like too and just seeing what's going out there especially as your level strategy wise it's probably good to have a good pulse in the market.
I feel like you have to otherwise you get delusional. I'm already like semi delusional like with this stuff. So like you gotta root yourself back into reality.
That's true. That's so true. That's like. Have you seen like the site boringcash cow.com no, but that's what I'm after.
That sounds great. Sounds right up my alley.
Like newsletter like mails you like these boring online businesses or niches that are just ripping and some are info, some are just like affiliate sites and then funnel of the week. Have you heard of that one?
No.
Probably have all the data on their stuff.
I would love to. I'm going to subscribe to that. I have pretty good muscle under like not going after the funnel of the week. But have you seen anything that's truly innovative.
Me in there like in the funnel like that they're sharing. I've seen yeah health related offer. I've seen some but it's like the sad thing is a lot of innovation is dark lord so it's unethical. So there's a lot of innovation our space, let me tell you. I see I did an interview with a top ClickBank affiliate, Logan funnels and stuff. I asked. I. I did an interview at the top ClickBank affiliate. We just redid it today because the other ones too, we share too much of what is bad. And I was like dang it, dude. And he's like, I can't. He's like, he doesn't do it. But he was like, someone's gonna do this if I share what I'm seeing. And it is insane. The innovation people go to unethically. And so like, you know, it's sad. Like the positive innovation.
The lead magnet of like 100 ways to defraud someone with 11 labs right now. Like it's. It'd be crazy. Yeah. Like send rape someone's personal attacks. Sent. Send their grandmother like 11 labs of them.
Yeah, yeah, dude. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah. And like but one, I mean there's this one where they like send people a. A P test for like their health but they rig the test so it always comes back as there's a problem. Yeah. That's crazy. That is like, that is too far. You know, like. But I think some of the most like Joe Rogan Funnel op. Yeah.
Joe Rogan's endorsed over 100 e commerce products this year unknowingly.
Poor guy or Dr. Oz. A lot of people. Dr. Oz. But I think quiz funnels innovation quiz funnel wise has been. That's why I'm really like interested in it. That makes sense because my thought is like why not? Like because okay, my web for webinar funnel people always like increase consumption so they want to show up. Some people. I see people do like watch these videos beforehand or you email them. But my thought is like not everyone consumption is very low on that. But a quiz funnel like keeps them in one spot. So why not after a webinar of an opt in do a quiz funnel that says like how much can you make from sub to whatever. What's potential in your market? They go through it, you show this like and then it's like they say they're in Minnesota, which is where I'm at. What if it was okay, then here's this and that's I'm Minnesota. And then also like pulls a case study. Then I see freaking Joe from Minnesota testimonial. So like my thought is like what if it's like quiz funnels. Yeah. So it's segments on what I'm doing.
With Get Creative podcast too in there. So, like that one in in particular, I've seen people do versions of that. In fact.
Okay, okay, let me see if I haven't done it. But I was like, I feel like quizzes are the biggest innovation. I've seen like e Comm brands doing hundreds of millions of Quiz Funnel. Some info doing millions with the quiz funnel. And it's just because it is personalized, it leads people to limitations, it reveals problems and sells out. Like, I feel like it. I don't know. That's the only thing I've been bullish on and seen. I'm studying right now.
But, dude, I had this idea. I'll leave you this for funnel ideas for Bilzerian. When me and Mark were kind of crossing paths on that, he had this. His, like, reason for why he was doing what he was doing. He's like, I want to help the ugliest guys, like big girls or whatnot, or feel like they have the confidence to attract girls. And I was like, what if we did a reverse wait list where instead of like the nightclub thing where the. The hottest guys and girls get the fast pass, what if we like use looks max apps to scan face on the LP on the landing page, rank them and then slot them based off of how ugly they were up the wait list.
And I was like, the.
The sickest thing to me is like, let the UG guys in first. So if someone execute on that idea because I pitched it, I had it mocked up and I was like, the thing would work if someone has. If someone. I'll probably never work with a pickup like course again. So. Yeah, I just need a shout out later.
Just. Yeah, yeah, that's.
And it'll. It'll crush.
Dang, that's tough. Wow. Yeah, that'd be sick. Yeah. AI is gonna make it. Let's see. That's talk.
That's all I needed was someone to.
Think that was a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Quiz Funnel. Someone said Quiz Funnel segmentation, first line, social proof. Yeah. I think that's what's cool about it. So I think the innovation there has been cool. I'm gonna test it. I don't know. I don't have any data yet, but we'll see. That's the only thing I've seen cool out there.
But consumption. I think there's. There's a lot of. There's a lot of comps to like that Quiz funnel even working in just a very simple version. Even if you're doing a 50% split right? Or just this way or that way. That makes a lot of. Yeah, but you're thinking of personalizing to the geo itself.
Well, I think for you, I don't know. For me I can't really do that. But you have case studies here in.
States that would work for us. Yeah, because of the exercises that this won't work in my local market.
Exactly. So imagine beforehand it's like they watch the video which I'm. What are you doing Webinar follow up wise to get people pre framed or teed up to the webinar or is it curiosity and open loops or do you have too many things?
We. We do like we have a big thing for us is like reciprocity being the bit best principle of influence. So we're big on giving value like sales rep hits and sales reps not trying to call and sell them beforehand. That rarely happens. Like 1% of our sales happen pre webinar despite them getting blanketed by. By people reaching out. We're really just trying to give them value. And we have so many lead magnets, resources, testimonials that we're shooting those over ahead of time just in a manner.
Your setters are hitting up web free webinar registrations with contact, correct?
Yep.
How many setter, what's. What's the activity model? How much can a setter, how much is it automated?
Is like we have AI setters but we're not using them right now for that purpose. We should probably in the future because we're our team can't handle all the registrants. Like last time last webinar two weeks ago we had 5000 regis, 2500 on it. Maxed out like what you could do pre webinar.
Dang.
Yeah. What Dean has more than that. So like and I know he doesn't talk. There's probably an automation that makes sense for us right now.
There's. Well, okay. I hate to keep gas like hyping up a event. I'm not an affiliate guys. I promise I have no affiliate link. I denied one from Josh's affiliate link. When he gets one I'm not gonna take one because I love the glaze like the soccer player worrying. But they have like ring. They have like the ringless voicemails. Like you know, so like obviously voicemails which is pretty common that's built in.
They. How is it? Is it good?
I haven't done it because they said, they said unless you have an older market it doesn't make sense. And like if people aren't really doing Voicemail, so I think it makes sense. Dude. Hey, you hear that, Winter? Yeah. The next thing that.
What do you check your voicemail personally?
Well, I opt into too many funnels that I have.
I check my voicemail, so maybe it doesn't work.
I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, it's too many funnel opt ins. But one other thing is Apple Wallet. There's a company, I gotta find them. But after you opt in, you know, like, it shows your phone to your like, plane ticket. It keeps hopping up, like this much time left.
Yeah.
Someone made a software that does that so smart. And so Aventron integrated that. But I think that would be six. Imagine it's like, that would be sick.
Add this, your wallet, that be sick. Because I've done this before with friends. I have some friends on $1 a month Apple reoccurring payment. Like, I'll send. I sent that to Cole Gordon a few months ago. He was like, what's this for? I was like, it's just for you to think of me. It's like an autoresponder. You can set up reoccurring payments. It's so great, bro.
What if you. Okay, imagine if you could. You know, people do the PayPal outreach strategy. Have you seen that where they send like 5 cents?
Yeah.
If you could do that to your register, like webinar registrations, renew your like, cost per lead. You're just increasing it by like 5 cents. And everyone got like a, A freaking Apple notification where it's like, dude, you should do that.
Like anyone that you think is a high value lead. See this? You can down here send reoccurring payment. Do it every week. Today send them $1. I do, I do it to several friends right now. Strategy. Yeah. You can also request money from them too. But I think sending a dollar is like, it's just. It's just funny. And it's like a good way to. You're gonna spend that much money on marketing.
When does it get needy, though? Like, when is it, like, when does it get to a point where they're like, all right, you gotta stop this.
Some of them think it's funny. Some of them text me because I'm so bad at texting people back.
I'm into Jason flathing because I keep asking for his like Mona Lisa webinar maker.
Oh, tell him like, I'm gonna give you a dollar per week until you tell me how it's done.
Dude, that's so genius. Because I text him. Like, I said, send me the cart. Jason, send me the cart. But he's doing these launches. He didn't say anything. So now I'm just gonna do.
You should.
I'm gonna do this every week. I'm paying you a dollar. Shout out. Shout out. You Jason. Okay.
Shout out. Jason the goat.
Yeah. Good. Good audio interview with him. Everyone go subscribe. Watch that.
I tried to ask him. Like I said, I tried to ask him questions he's never been asked before.
Did he say that was a good question? I mean, he's.
He did. He said, I remember. Which I was like, okay, that's the sign.
That's a sign. Yeah. Like, if they aren't saying that, I'm like, I just want to end it. I'm like, dude, I'm doing it. So, like, if they're asking us a question or they're stalling, like, Zach, have you worked with Zach Rosson yet? You know Zach Ross? Nope. Dude, his stun free sales teams are on like a lot of big offers, like million a month. Like, he's low key, dude. He lives. Are you in Arizona?
Yeah.
Okay, I'll connect. Just because, like, you guys should talk because he's just in the know with like dogs and he's just a low key dude. Probably lives right by you. But he. What was I saying with that? Oh, yeah, he would just say, that's a good question, I think, to buy time because he didn't know what to say back. So I was like, every time. So I just called him out on the live. I'm like, zach, you're just saying that. Just take your time. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You can sit there, pause and think about it and just.
Yeah. What?
Elon Musk style pauses where he's just like two minutes on.
Yeah. Stinking Sam ovens. Dude, when you say the price, don't say anything, dude. Just pause 100.
Just never forget I have someone on my team who's beat Sam. His own pause. I have a 13 minute pause to sale recorded. If you want to hear it, I'll.
Send it to you.
It's crazy.
So tough. Yeah, I want to hear 13 minutes of silence. 13 minutes. What? How are you still friends with Sam?
Yeah, I think so. But like, uh, you would assume that we talk every day if I said we're friends, but like, we're friends. We're friends that I showed up at school HQ randomly a few months ago and he let me just hang with his team.
Did you ever. Did you ever have the opportunity to partner in school?
I did and I passed on it. I actually didn't think it would get to the point lesson learned is like, don't doubt Sam Ovens ever. That's like, true.
Yeah, man.
Come on. He's. I always told people he's going to be a billionaire. Go broke on school.
Yeah.
It looks like billionaire is probably the move you should have bet on. Yeah, it's probably the Should. That's.
Probably the. That's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, stock options and everything else were on the table for me early. Like, I was there the day obviously.
Yeah.
Came over and told me he got school.com. and then it was just in pre rev. We were using consulting profits to parlay the school.
Yeah.
Also, I'm super happy with how everything worked out. I don't, like, wake up regretting that I passed on it. However, like, things played out different for me for sure.
Huh. What was your first step off once you started accepting marketing for consulting? Where did you. What did you move to next? What do you launch?
Astro.
That was Astro flipping. Dang, bro. It just went. Just a banger. Just. You didn't even have a down moment. You just went right into.
Right into it and hit it. Yeah. And then. Yeah, like, after that, I started failing. But then we. We caught. We caught really good initial luck, like. Cause I went back to what I knew. I was like, sh. Call closed funnel. I just taught this stuff. Like, I'm gonna go state a market that I taught.
Okay.
Dot com. I worked at Clever Investor as director of marketing. So market model that I had just taught to a bunch of people and seen way to make it work. Product high ticket price point that I knew. Like, it hit all four fits for me. Launched with the channel that I was really good at Facebook ads. So, like, I took all the variables out of my first offer. Yeah.
What was I going to say on that? I was gonna say I have some question about webinars. Of course, not all webinars.
It's a really good pause, though. Josh, you look very stoic and pensive.
On.
Must pause on that.
Oh, I know. What are your thoughts on Iman godsi D?
I'm. My first thing that came to mind is like, I'm really proud and happy that he's about consulting dot com, since that's like some of my legacy.
Dude, did he ever hit you up? Why didn't he hit you up to the part? Why didn't.
I don't know. I'm gonna ask. I'm gonna ask him at wap, since we're both now entangled with wap when I go out there Next.
Dang. How are you entangled for free?
Because I genuinely like, I'm so proud of the work that we did there. My most focused legacy, all time legacy. Yeah.
So like foundational text.
I'd be happy to work on it. I'd be on what?
Your what? How are you entangled? Wop. Do you have offers, payment crossing through there?
Yes, that too. Like we're. And we might just switch over everything here to watch. I'm going out there this week. I'm gonna be out there.
Yeah. I. The members area. I like, if I'm doing mid ticket, high ticket, I don't have any reason to not use wop other than fees. But if you're just big enough and make enough money, then you just gotta.
Yeah, we, we can, we can, we can. Right? Exactly.
So that's make more money. People always complain. They're like, these fees, school, these fees for here. I'm like, bro, just make more money.
And then give them a reason money. Yeah. And plus, like they have enough demand as a marketplace now to take it seriously for low ticket. Right. Like you can just put stuff on there and it can. It could pop on discovery. So same thing with school. Like certain marketplaces, they reach a tipping point where it's. It's like low ticket relevant for you with not much more work. So yeah, I always tell people, like the, the lowest. If you don't want to do financing or transactor wop, then throw up like a mini course, a spin off of your core and just throw it up on wob and just see what happens.
Get some traffic. Yeah, See if traffic. Yeah, even like indexing. Like I like you in school. How if you keyword, like their SEO is actually really good. Like.
Yeah, it is.
It's like, what the frick? I don't know. Like it just pops up. Like you need. You are. All of you might as well.
You might as well own. And even if it. Even if it is a gated front end and there's no community, you don't.
Even let them in. It just links.
Yeah. Heck yeah. Like, it'll work.
Do you send blue for text? What do you use to get. Do you do blue text or webinars?
I need to get on that wave because I was like talking about it five years ago. I don't use blue or Bravo or link blue or any of the competitors that are.
Oh, there's multiple. I thought it was only send blue. Dang.
Yeah, like if there's send blue, who I think became Bravo and then there's Link blue. And then there's actually one more. I'm blanking on who it is. So if someone can let me know. Each one has different integrations and features. I've heard good things about all of them. So that one.
Oh yeah, yeah.
But like if you're asking me, generally speaking, like, are blue bubbles the way. Yeah. For like especially markets. Yeah, yeah.
Like Ryan.
But then I agree blue mobiles are.
I don't do that. Frick. What do you use for tech stuff right now?
Just close. Which isn't great. Like sendblue or Wink app is gonna have way better open rates where you.
Do you build all your funnels and webinar opt ins custom like on WordPress or is it all very fancy now?
It can get fancier as we go on. But yeah, like a lot of times we're still using click funnels for lps. So let's go. Yeah. Like should we have a dedicated like WordPress with super high load times? Probably, but we're not.
I like hearing that because I feel like Orange says if I'm like, do we really like, I don't know, maybe see the point.
Yeah, maybe brand.
Brand wise for. So for Jamil, that offer, was it webinar or call funnel?
Call funnel.
Like were you doing direct to cart? Oh, call funnel.
No, not, not direct to cart. At least not initially. That was funnel too. There's. You guys want to see it? This is, this is probably old enough now where I can share it verbatim.
Leak.
Yeah, actually I'll put, I'll put. You have to request. So if you guys hit that request, I'll show you the whole Astro flipping. That was our top year in 2022 for Astro. We planned for about 18 million, did about 20 on that offer and it all came to fruition. It's like I keep that marketing plan because a lot of times you're like, it's not our best here. Like sub 2 has had years where we did 60 million. But there was. The marketing plan was irrelevant from what happened. So it's a lot of times like, oh, shoot. This just emerged because of scale, momentum, luck, velocity stuff. This one actually like we tracked all almost verbatim and hit all the targets. Did everything that we could to do that. So it's an actual blueprint to get into 20 million. So that's what I love about this plan in particular. Yep. I've never given that away either. Josh. That's also an exclusive.
Also an exclusive.
Yeah.
I don't even know how people are gonna.
I mean I wait for quest access or can you, can you, can you actually see that? I thought.
I believe I can. I can see it, but I don't know if the chat. I don't know if that goes to them. I think it's just like internal version description.
If you want, if you don't want to, you have to.
Everyone, let's do some. Here's how you're going to get access to it. You got to go subscribe to Nick Fisher on YouTube.
All right?
You man, go subscribe. And then once you subscribe, come back under this video and then say something. Say like one. Just cuz webinars ones and twos. Drop a one or two. And then people who don't stay long enough, they're like, why is everyone commenting one or two. And then, and then they, and then I will send you the link. I'll have my va send you the link and then you'll get it. So you gotta go subscribe.
And then we're gonna, we're gonna call you 20 times.
We have a custom. We're tracking this link and then we're gonna send $1 to you every single week. All right? So you buy something. But we know our numbers. So we're gonna profit.
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna profit.
What? Okay, last thing before. Because I. I'm watching my sister. They're having fun swimming. I'm watching right now. They're just vibing, but they're, they're get hungry. I'm a babysitting duty. But why, why come public? What do you want to get out of building your brand? Like what connection Hiring? Like what's the. Because I feel like we're in an era where people like this here, like just like what is the point?
No, I do. I swore I would never do what I'm doing now and like pop out. Yeah, but you'll think you'll.
Well, here's the thing. Do you think you'll actually stay consistent with it or. Because there like, do you actually want to do this?
No, I don't. I don't. I want to talk to like you, like whoever's listening to this, like especially Josh, your audience. I want to talk to you guys.
Yeah.
After I exhaust this audience that wants to learn from me and I get into this motion where I'm like to grow more. I have to be someone who I don't want to be or not curious about the people that I'm going to interview in order to get more clout, more fame and more wreck. That's when It's a no for me. Right?
Yeah.
So this will be, this will be.
Like a safe word for your team. Like you're gonna be like, hey, guys, like if she's. They know when they just pull you off. Get off YouTube, take out his channel.
It's when I say low ticket three times in the bear.
He's going too far.
Yeah. It's not too far when I start. Yeah, no, no, there's no safe word yet. It'll die. Its natural course when it, when it's meant to be.
People.
People have this like, like when Timothee Chalamet does like a three month press run in order to get like best picture at the Oscars or whatnot. It's pretty transparent and he's pretty overt about it. Me, I don't know when I'm gonna stop. It's probably somewhere between 1, 2. Let's call it three years is when I'm okay for this. And the reason being you better enjoy it. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm, I am enjoying it right now. And it's fun. It's fun. I'll keep doing it when it's not fun. It's going to be a chore and I probably will stop doing the reps and I won't want it. And I have enough break to do it for a while, but not like forever. So that's, that's what it is for me. And the motivation to getting into it. Initially it was. This was the impetus of Pace. I was teaching marketing frontals and branding to our Mastermind clients. Pace had told him they all need to do 21 podcasts in order for him to respect them. In the next year I was like, oh, shoot, okay. So I got to as the one teaching this stuff myself. So at first it just started with like, this is. This is my commitment to this group. Then it became, okay, what could I actually get out of this that I've seen get out of this? And I've seen personal brand like a hundred x multiplier for him of just like inbound. If I cold DM someone with 3000 IG followers, way different than him with half a million. Right? Or a million. So I'm like, cool. The accidents. I could get insane. And if I make similar to like Ryan Clog, like when I reviewed him, I'm like, bro, we were thinking of wanting to save wavelength. I'm like, I just did. I rewrite Expert Secrets. And Russell's like, his three things are like basically make a dream 100 interview the people that you want. It's a huge hat.
Yeah, it works, dude. It works. It's. It's like. I don't know if it's like the universe or something else, but it works. Like, it's crazy. I've said that they. They come about. Like, it always happens somehow.
Yeah. Yeah. Because like, it's. It's funny because like, like earlier, Josh, if I'm like, yo, bro, like, please come onto my YouTube show or my podcast or whatever I want to call it. And you're like, easy. Yes. Right. But if I was like, hey, bro, I just pick your brain for an hour. That's a way worse frame to enter on. That's just like, that's so true.
Yeah.
Where I benefit zero. Yeah. Earlier Josh, if I'm like, yo, bro, like, please come on to my YouTube show or my podcast or whatever I want to call it. And you're like, easy. Yes. Right. But if I was like, hey, bro, I just pick your brain for an hour. That's a way worse frame to enter on. That's just like.
That's so true. Yeah.
Where I benefit0 yeah. No, thanks.
Nah. Yeah. Heck no. Yeah, even. Oh, yeah, that's so true. It's a way to. Oh, yeah. I think there's selfish reasons for sure. Like, I mean, obviously I even got one thing from this where it's like activation. Like, I'm taking that. I'm ripping it.
It's like the same thing. Two hours, you know, well worth it.
It's like, yeah, but I think people.
Should enjoy up front. So you don't know that going in always.
That's true. That's true. But that's cool. No, I. Big fan. I'm glad that you're coming public. I always. I'd heard about you and Mark would mention you and I'd always try to find your stuff. Like, I would just be looking like, he's got something somewhere.
I was perfectly founder be found.
Like, it's like you're publishing your website. I found like. How do you pronounce it? Genta or.
Yeah, sorry.
I found it. I was like, I thought I found something. That was it. And then I was like, dang it, dude. So I want you to start posting. Really excited about that. And yeah, forever. I mean, anyone watching it this far in. But obviously people that want to. To go deep in our like actual people love this game. So whoever's watching it, go subscribe. Go support next stuff, please.
If you subscribe, drop a comment somewhere of what you want to learn. I'm Just dishing out like I have an internal loom and SOP database from the last six years of building all these companies and I'm just like trying to find people that want this stuff and want to consume it. So if you comment something, good chance I have it, I'm going to deploy it. Yeah.
So if you want the marketing plan for Astral flipping which at 100 million never share before, make sure to go subscribe to him. Then come back to this video once it's uploaded. Drop a a2 in honor of webinars and we'll get it to you. What was I going to say? Oh frick, did I keep forgetting I was gonna say something on top of oh, your content. Oh yeah. Who. What deals are you trying to get? What type of person are you for the next launch of the future? Because either in case I know some people running people or are you trying to take on new brands? Are you just focused right now?
We are. And if you know one in anyone in like personal finance who like fancies themselves the next day for amsi, bring them to me. I'll give you that. Specifically. Yeah.
Female or male could be either.
Doesn't matter to me.
How big do you want them to be before you work with them?
Most ideal is 1 million subs on YouTube plus with good average retention and average watch times.
Okay.
That's most ideal.
No team existing. No team existing. No infrastructure existing.
You could have one or two and we could build around that. But yeah, like if they have a team building 20 already, they're probably not going to be a good fit because.
They'Re not going to value them. They're not going to let you. They're not going to let you.
Yeah, too many gig.
Okay.
Yep. Okay.
I'll keep my eye out. We'll keep. If you guys. If that's you hit them up or if you know people guys, send them over to him. Yeah, I'll keep, I'll keep checking. Would you. Oh do you need a. Are you doing. Do you do JV like your brands? Do your brands JV or affiliate other offers?
We sure do. And is the. The bigger they get, the less choose or the more choosy that they are. But yeah, certainly that's been how that's a. Usually acquisition channel 3 or 4 for us is always affiliate JV.
Would you want recips? Do you need a reset to do it?
Not always. No.
Okay. What. Okay. I just. Because I know there's some other like things that related that we could.
You want like a reset from Pace. Yeah, it's going to be different than like.
Oh yeah right. You hate that. You can't. You gotta work for that one. But okay, I'll see. I'll let you know if you're watching this. If you know I put. You never know who's watching. So I just like to.
You never know.
Boo.
You probably got it. Quite the eclectic audience with the topics that you're breaching right now.
I imagine so many random people. Dude, we got all sorts of. I'm always like who the freak are you? Like I never knew these people existed. Pirate. Are you hiring anything right now?
Yes, dude. If you guys are looking to do this, I always tell people like if you're winning the skill set, especially from you, Josh, you are wanting some boys to deploy it. That's like low risk. Come work for some of our brands. I always tell people if you just follow the proven growth strategy that I have, I'll let you do any sort of crazy growth ideas you have after that would.
Do you have a form like a. Because I have 300 offer publishers right now. Some of them are dogs.
They all have the copywriter skill set. That's what I.
They're all previous agency as copywriters.
What I'll tell you guys right now is like we have enough opportunities like you're looking to work with us. Amazing. We have enough of those opportunities inbound. What we're constrained by is like what I would call the growth strategist or the. The copywriter who's actually going to take the lead on that and use our resources, our budget, our infrastructure. We have our team in order to aid you. It's like training wheels for doing this stuff. So if that's. You just hit me up in DMS or comment on anything like get a hold of me in any way possible. But we're looking to hire that person right now.
I'll post because I. Because I train people and selfishly to have my own fulfillment partner. So I just finished two launches from our students and he crushed. So I brokered deals to them and then they've invalidated. So we have some docs. Obviously there's people who aren't going to be. But I'll send it, I'll mail it to our list of people.
That would be huge, bro. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, they'll. They'll probably watch this because they know you do publishing. So I think Mark is in our content. We've like mentioned where Mark's like yeah, my buddy Nick. So they know who you are so you'll get some people. For sure.
Yeah, me and Mark have had some good hangings. We usually find ourselves, like, me and Mark, like, end up at a mastermind or two together every once in a while. Affiliate masterminds, usually.
Yeah.
Me and Mark both got trapped in a room for eight hours with Tony Robbins doing, like, Date with destiny for 10 people. It was intense, so.
Yeah, I heard about that. That's crazy.
After that, it was. It was nuts.
Well, we'll. We'll send some people over, but I appreciate your time, Nick. Excited for people to watch this and. Yeah, I'm excited to see what you do in this space. It's gonna be good, dude.
Me and you both. Thank you for having me.
Hopeful. I see you in Boise September 4th.
Okay.
Through the sticks. I just texted Ben. He said he wanted me to recommend one other person to speak. So I'm gonna get on him. And if he. If he already had someone else, then we gotta. Sorry. Whoever that is. The day of time can come later, but you should come out because Russell's launching offer lab and for you guys. Yeah, it's a great. It's very good synergy and you'd also be a great, great speaker. So hopefully we can hang in Boise.
Dude, sick. Let's do it. If. If not, then. Then the next time. Dude, you're in Minnesota, you said?
Yeah, Minnesota. I'll be New York city, September at WAP. 15th to the something. Orlando in two weeks. Or creator Hub. You're going this week.
Okay. I might go to Creator Hub in October.
Yeah, no, it's sooner. It's like two weeks.
Okay. Yeah, we'll figure something out.
We'll see each other somewhere. Yeah, somewhere.
Thank you.
Appreciate you. I'll see you.
Bye.
