He Sold Me a $100K Deal Over the Phone - Here's Exactly How He Did It

Yo, guys, what's up? I got a special one for you today. This is a sales legend. He has single handedly sold me the most expensive package I've ever bought with a credit card over the phone. And I was worried that my card was going to decline. It didn't. So Josh Troy, a legend. He's worked for many people that, you know, I won't mention names, but let's just say if you're an eight figure business owner, there's a chance he's been behind some of the sales operations and even VSLs of some of the industry's greats. So welcome to the show, sir.

Awesome. Thank you, Nick. Yeah, dude, that was a. That was. I think that was actually how we met.

It was. It was. And I hit you with an objection. I always forget what it was. I think, I think it was just like, I don't know what my limit is on this.

It was. Yeah, it was funny. I don't remember the exact words. You said something like, you tried to pitch me 100k. Yeah. Yeah. You said, I've never, I've never paid 100 grand. Like, yeah, I don't even think that will go through on my card. And I said something like, well, you never know. Let's give it a shot.

I. I think you did you. And then you like, slightly. It was a great. It wasn't like a full guilt shame thing. But you said something about like, Ryan, when I asked, I asked for a toothpay. Guys, like, it's. It's one of my lowest moments of asking. I usually buy like, I sell. I'm a piff buyer, early buyer in a webinar. But I think I asked you. I was like, well, would it be, like, would it be okay if we just did 50k on the card and then I could wire the rest? And you said something about like, Ryan would probably accept that, but it's not a great sign or something like that.

I don't remember specifically. It was probably something along the lines of, you know, it doesn't really show. You're like super committed. And I don't, I don't think that's what he's kind of looking for because you, you were so anchored around wanting to make a good impression.

You're right. 100. I still do. Shout out to Ryan if you ever see this. I hope we get to meet and hang out in person. Like, he's. He's where I want to go. Right. He has double this portfolio size of what we have.

I love those guys. Yeah. Really good Guys, mentors of mine even. But anyways, that was how our journey began. What I. What I thought was hilarious, Nick, is like a year or two later, a couple or maybe even longer a couple years later, we were in Vegas and then. And you had been showing that sales call to your team.

Yeah, dude, it's so good. Yeah. Like, I appreciate the gamesmanship of it. Whenever I'm on at that level, I was like, okay, who's he gonna put on the phone if he's not gonna take it? Like that type? Like, I would take that call by that package. Right. So it's because I don't have someone like you. And since, since that's happened, dude, like, tell me the journey with the, with the agency. Because it started off you guys just. You were like on the phones obviously, and you were a top performer. But I don't even know actually where you started. You've told me once before. But could you like speed the audience up of just how you got good at this game?

Yeah, I mean, dude, I always say sales is a kinetic motion. So you get good first of all by doing it. You know, you have to know sales and you only know sales by being on the phones. I'll take you back to that in a second. But just so you know, even at that time when I still do that program, I was only on the phones for the $100,000 offer. I remember we talked about this a while ago. Yeah. You wanted to know, like, how did the flow for that work? And I told you very specifically, I said, well, you can't just market $100,000 offer funnel because it's really, really hard. What we did is we offered their normal mastermind funnel and then we had a flagging process where we were. Our sales team was looking for certain criteria in the prospects and in the conversations and if they met that we would escalate it over to me. And I was the only one at that time that was selling the $100,000 programs.

Got it.

So that's. That was kind of how the flow was. Yeah. So I was only on the phone for the hundred case. Yeah, that was it. But no, my. I mean, my background, Nick, you know, not to get too long winded into something that people might not care about. But I've always been in high ticket sales my, My whole career in life, all the way from some.

Some of people will. Cause they're trying to. I have some audience now that's trying to get a high ticket sales job for the first time. Or they're like growth Operators trying to find their first client and, or partner. So they, they might find that interesting for what it's like.

All right, well, yeah, I mean, you know, the, the short story is I had a high ticket video production company and you know, when I say high ticket, towards the end I was selling 60 second spots for, you know, multiple six figures, you know, 300 grand for a 60 second commercial. Yeah. So it's really premium production. It wasn't like small social media type stuff, commercials, large video ad campaigns and things like that. And so I, you know, it's actually kind of funny how I built this skill set. I just didn't have any money when I started that first business. And so I defaulted to outbound sales because it seems scary to spend a bunch of money on campaigns to generate inbound leads, ad spend plus an agency. But I was willing to pick up a phone and dial all day long. So I got really good at outbound dialing. That was it. I dialed all day long for a long time. And I like to say I got good in sales by getting hung up on thousands of times, literally. And what happened from there, sort of the segue is I was, you know, my main partnership model was we'd partner with digital marketing agencies and we would produce video ads for their digital marketing campaigns. Through those partnerships is how I learned direct response and inbound marketing. And it seems funny because I was blown away. I'm like, dude, what do you mean? Like these people just land on your calendar looking for what you sell. Like I, I'm calling these people that have no idea who I am, want nothing to do with me, and I'm, you know, taking them through a process to get them sold on a, on a really large package. So I started learning digital marketing through that. My digital marketing partners were extremely curious on how I was generating leads without bound sales. And so I ended up building sales teams for digital marketing agencies and building these outbound sales motions. What ended up happening is, and you'll remember this part of the story, I ended up, I had a client who was a famous real estate investor and he, he was, you know, he had an investment business and he's like, you know, there's a ton of money. We, we were producing all of his video ad campaigns for his digital marketing campaigns where he'd find the properties and things like that. And he was like, you know, hey dude, you're, you're already, you know, you know, sales like the back of your hand. You know, the outbound motion, you're doing a bunch of the Marketing and the consulting and the video ads. Why don't we partner? There's a ton of money in education. And so that was how I got into this space. And you know what was interesting? There is so. So we started an education brand and you know, we built that to a very successful revenue run rate within the first 12 months. And that was my. That was my introduction into High Ticket. This is maybe and High Ticket, you know, kind of B2C and info products and whatever. And this was in think 2018 when I started getting into it. And regardless, you know, what really happened? Say it again.

I said, you built the mess hall on outbound and cold.

Like, that's.

That's all the best people that I have found in our industry either had that sort of background. Outbound, basically. Outbound, door to the door outbound or digital outbound, like, you know, calling, dude,

you know what's funny? To this day, if I really want to get ahold of somebody, I still outbound them. I have clients today that I outbounded. You know, I. I pull a name and I freaking call them.

So I outbounded someone yesterday just to show the team I would. It's just. It's fun for me.

It is fun. Yeah. So. So anyways, kind of to shorten the rest of the story, what happened was I'm in the education space and you know, there's these massive live event companies, seminar companies, doing hundreds of millions a year in education. And they were, you know, right around Covid time, they're getting shut down because, you know, they're live events. And so I ended up poaching a ton of the top salespeople from live events. Now what was interesting here is when you're selling at live events, even people at like Tony Robbins, you know, and I'm not, you know, if you worked for Tony Robbins. And I'm not taking anything away from you, but I'll tell you, some of our worst hires ever were from people like Tony Robbins Co. Because they're writing, they're laid out, dude, they're selling behind the most prolific speakers in the world. And they were in a room for five, you know, so they don't know how to. They definitely don't know how to chase money. They don't know how to work. There's no pipeline management skills. So through this experience, I'm taking in all these amazing, like, event closers. And they were good when we did events, but dude, they didn't know how to do anything on, you know, except

back of the room.

It's set back of the room. And so I again, once again, I got on phones myself. And this was back in 2020, I got on phones myself for my own business and I just started putting up deals left and right and documenting the process. And it was, it was really fascinating at the time because a lot of the reps that were around me, these are people that have been doing it for way longer in this industry, but they didn't understand phone sales. They didn't understand phone sales. They didn't understand how to take a cold lead and warm them up through a sales process because they're used to back of the room sales after lots of hours of content and they didn't know pipeline management or any of the operations side. And so anyways, it gets longer from there. But you get the point. That's what I was doing. I was having a ton of success with it. People were always reaching out to me for consulting and they wanted to figure out, like, how can I help them do the same. That's when I started, you know, WFS Group and doing it outsourced, dude.

Fascinating journey. So a lot of things come to me.

We won't say names here, Nick, but last thing on that, the offer that you're talking about that I sold you when we started working with that client, without exaggeration, they told me that they were working with a sales manager they had hired for about four months and sold exactly zero deals in four months. And this guy was a sales executive for Tony Robbins. And dude, I was perplexed by that. I'm like, dude, if I ask enough people if they want to get kicked in the nuts, someone's going to say yes. How are you over here taking sales calls for four months and still striking out? He sold zero deals. And you know, we took that by the horns. And you know, I don't know the specific numbers, but it was like, I think it was like 6,7 million over the next eight months with that offer. And in those first, that first deal or, sorry, that, that first week that I was taking the calls to validate it, I did six figures in volume that first week on phones. And so yeah, that was kind of like how we validated that out.

Man, I'm doing such dumb things. The one thing I will do is dial though. Like, like, like I said, I have a meeting. I was going where I just, I live dialed. Not this whole time, but for yesterday, for 133 minutes of power dialing of just like, hey, calling leads in our CRM about the mastermind People that were interested in coming but couldn't get in the room. So I was trying to get a sense of. And I don't have a date, so I can pick one. But I'm curious, just for my own selfish benefit, how would you sell the next mastermind for me? Because I don't want it to deteriorated into a biz op fest, so. Which is a problem at the price point of 10k, which is the only way people at this point have access to the room. Some friends were in there and obviously speakers like yourself, if you come in, you don't have to pay. I'm just doing it not for the business model, but for the learnings. And it's gone really well the last two times and I'm learning again and it feels great. So ideally, I would like it to make no more than. Well, I actually, I'm not going to put a cap on the income. I just don't want to put. I just don't want to put more than 50 people in the room right now because then it loses its intimacy and certainly past 80, I'm against entirely right now.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think this is a part that I have always been very good at, which is what I call pitch design. I talk about pitch design often because it's very, it's very often overlooked. It's very similar to like a brand development positioning exercise that you would do in marketing, but specific to how to sell something. And like, again, going back to that offer that I, you know, that I sold you, like, I locked myself in a room for about a day just figuring out how do I have to position this? Like, how do I describe this in a way that sells? And so that whole process is called pitch design. And, you know, I just, I think that's a very overlooked piece these days. You know, people, they study the talk track and discovery questions and, you know, like the NEPQ stuff. Not, not, not, not talking poorly about any of it. I'm just saying that's still different.

Yeah, exactly.

It's still different than the pitch itself, is what I'm referring to.

Yeah, like in your style of script too. It's not like I could have placed it. Normally when I'm on here, I'm like, oh, spin spinscript. I'm like, oh, any pq. Oh, someone who worked for Andy Elliott. Like, there's just like, you know, tells in this industry.

Right. And there's first principles to all of it. But where I'm going with that is on a mastermind and I've talked to. What's really interesting is the. Usually the more expensive something is, the less. The, the less amount of things the prospect cares about. And it's, it's very backwards. I, I told you this before. I actually created a. Some, some content on this. I'll share it here. It. I draw back to my memory at the fine dining restaurant. So when I was in college, I served at Morton Steakhouse and some other fine dining restaurants. And I was the top salesperson in the company. There was like 72 locations in terms of wine sales. And, you know, I was selling thousands of dollars of bottles of wine. You know, 3,000 bucks for Magnum. It was like, I think it was six liter bottle of wine. And when I first started there, that's all I wanted to do. That's all I cared about. I just want to sell the 6 liter bottle of wine. And I would watch. Say it again. What were you saying?

I love that. Like, and that makes me want to like, go with you and take my sales team and go to whatever restaurant that is and watch you do it again or something.

Oh, dude, I'll tell you right now. So here's the thing. Here's what's interesting. I, I struck out horribly. I couldn't sell one. I tried over and over, but nobody else could either. And I. And I would watch it over and over and over. Anytime somebody brought the six liter out of the case and went to the table, I would watch. I would stop what I was doing. I'd watch what they do. And one day it hit me like a ton of bricks. It was so interesting. The main pitch, the thing they thought was valuable to, you know, the customers or the guests was literally the biggest objection, and they were leaning right into it. Meaning when you bring out a six liter bottle of wine, remember it's $3,000. What's your first thought that might come to mind? Nick, it's three grand. Six liters. Three grand.

First thought that comes to my head is margin. What's the margin? But I'm a little bit weird like that.

No, I'm saying if it's. Yeah, you're, you're, you're probably like, what's the supply chain?

Yeah, I was like, what's cost of goods sold here? Like here? Like, that's a crazy margin. So what's velocity? Sales velocity. Okay. How many bottles you sell per month? What's the price?

What do you think an average person. What does an average person think if they're the guest?

Wow, that's too much wine for Me or. Wow, that must be.

Stop right there. There. Okay, stop right there. It's probably too much wine. That is what everybody thinks. It's six liters, dude. Yeah, so everybody thinks that. But for some reason everyone selling it had this illusion that that was the value prop. They bring it out and they'd be like, if you guys are really wanting to have a good time tonight, if you're really trying to drink, we have a six liter bottle of wine. Like that's enough for like five glasses. And they go through this whole thing.

That's enough for you to be here for the next seven days.

You could be drunk the next month. Yeah. And so I could see their faces, they're just like. The logic kicks in and they're like, whoa, that is like not what we need, you know. And so they were leaning into the objection. I see the same thing happen with masterminds and really expensive programs. What happens is, and some of it's on the brand's fault, it's offer design. Because they have this value guilt. They say, well, if we're selling something for 50k or whatever the price is, we have to add so many things to justify the value. Which by the way, I'm a big fan of strong fulfillment. But I'm just saying some of it's on that and then some of it's the rep. They babble features on the call because they're trying to justify value and they're nervous presenting price point, you know, with. They're nervous that it would be seen like not enough. So I'll finish.

Okay.

Yeah, let me finish this note real quick. So what you have to understand is you have to isolate and identify a singular outcome. It's not about features, it's not about the inclusions, it's not about the quantity or the amount. It's about what do they want out of it. And that is what you're speaking to. And it goes all the way back to first principles and sales. But for some reason that the more expensive something is, that logic goes out the window. Like, dude, I'll just tell you this, I don't know if you remember, but like I did not get into all of the details of that hundred thousand dollar thing. It was like, oh, that's what you want. That's what you want to be. This is how it will happen for you. And so.

Right.

That's. That's what I. So going back to your question, how would I sell a mastermind? I'd figure out the outcomes and then I would really focus on that. And then, by the way, there's also like, I. I devalue. I call them throwaway inclusions. If I learn that there's something that you do not care about, I will literally say, hey, by the way, it also comes with blah, blah, blah. Completely ignore that. That's not even like a value. Yeah, we just kind of throw that in. You know, we just throw that in because some people care about it, but for you, you'll never even use it. This is what matters.

Yeah, no, it's. It's great. And I found a few of those with my offer too. So I'm curious though, this nuance to it, because for me, I'm getting a lot of that's too cheap objections. But for me, it's because of the actual. Their value perception of the length of a mastermind. Because I'm doing just one full day from 9 to 4 for 10,000 right now. Shout out if you guys see this in the future. Who knows, it'll be more expensive or cheaper. I can't guarantee that price point forever. But regardless, it's 10,000 for one case. So there is that objection to handle always. If it's not me on the phones too and explaining it. And then I think what you're explaining why it's so cheap, the perception of it is like the. And then I have to. I have to handle it and probably not effectively. I'm like, well, like, I figured that it'd be like a $30,000 mastermind if it was three days. So I just did one for, you know, 10. So that's obviously not optimal. I'm not, I'm not you. What would you do in a situation like that to either figure out what it should be or the value economics or the length?

That's what I'll tell you.

I don't really want to do a three day.

It splits into two conversations. Again, you have offer design and you have pitch design. So, like, first thing, Nick, dude, if people are telling you over and over it's too cheap, maybe it is and just charge more for it. That's the first thing. But let's put that aside, right? The way that I go about, you know, building offers and offer design, by the way, is I do a true stack, not a. Not a bullshit offer stack like you'd have on a webinar. I literally figure out if all of these inclusions were isolated, what would be the value of them and then what makes sense to package it all together. And the reason I do that is because it passed the test. Of logic, because some people do break all of those things down. There's nothing worse. When you have an offer that the pricing doesn't make sense, where you're like, how do I get all of this for like, if it doesn't make sense, the analytical buyer will break that down. So I always start there. But that's not what really matters. What matters is this. My pitch framework is story, pitch pillars. Okay? So I believe that your answer is likely in the story. Story, pitch pillars. So when we build a story, we call it a mere narrative or an existence narrative. And an existence narrative is it's all framing. At the end of the day, it's all framing. You are influencing how they're going to perceive the information with the pitch and the pillars. You're influencing how they're going to receive that information. By framing a story and the story, it's not just a background of like, oh, here's who I am, this is what I did. And blah, blah, blah. You're crafting a narrative on how this came to be and why you're doing it in the way you're doing it.

So origin, origin, differentiation, type, story.

Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's hard to do on the fly because I don't even know your thing, but it could be something like. So, Nick, let me tell you about this mastermind that I'm having. For a very long time, I've had so many people, I feel like I'm contacted literally on a daily basis for people that, they want to learn more from me, they want access to me, they want my systems and they also want access to my relationships because I have a lot of people around me that are frankly the best in the industry at what we do. So I, I always had this vision of building like a really high end mastermind because I wanted it to be super elite. But the problem with that, and I'm just being overly transparent is like, right now I don't want to put the resources and the bandwidth behind that to build the mastermind that I actually want. And so what, what I decided to do is, hey, what if I could build this and only give access to like a handful of people where through this mastermind, it's not as regimented as I want it to be eventually, but it will be a smaller group with full proximity and I can actually have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. You said you're kind of explaining this narrative and you say so for me to do that, I thought, well, I, I want this to be kind of a no brainer. Because to me, it's not about exclusivity yet. It's not about, you know, it's not about, you know, the masses. What, what I wanted to do is say I want enough people here for me to get the validated learnings on building. What. So my point is, dude, you. You share this whole story where now when you give him the pitch and the price, it makes so much sense because you just already explained why it is the way it is.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Like, it does. It reminds me of, like, I just, I think in copy frameworks, I'm like, you're roughly following the show. They're paying the cost of development.

Why?

I wanted to do it a different way. Here's what I considered doing it. You're. It's, in a way, here's what I considered.

This is why I'm doing it. For this price point. It only makes sense. I know I'm. I'm cutting myself short, by the way, but I'm okay doing that. Because the value I'm getting isn't just the money you pay me, it's the blah, blah, blah.

So secretly. Yeah, it really is that it needs to make sense. It needs to sit above what I would charge an hourly rate at. And I'm trying to value. I'm trying. Although I still do 10 an hour tasks, from time to time, people come in like, can you do this? Of course. Then I'm like, wait, should I be. No. So I try to value my time at $10,000 an hour, like, is a heuristic for my to do list. So to me, I'm just like, cool, eight hours a day, 40 seats, roughly. If I sell them at X price point, that checks. And I get the learnings. So that's 100.

And that narrative is going to change how they receive it. Now it's hard to do on the fly. Like I said, like that, bro.

That was a great job. On the fly.

Well, that narrative isn't strong, but the point is, if I could just do it on the fly, like, then obviously the pitch design process wouldn't be very effective. You want to really strategize on that and think through it and like, hit on the emotional motivators and really speak to the core desires. The reason I call it a mirror narrative is because when you tell your story, they hear theirs. It's a mirror. So when you're sharing this development story, they need to be thinking to themselves, oh, my God, this is like exactly what I want and need. So you have to kind of find that balance along the way.

Okay, thank you. That's actually very, very helpful for me. So like I said, I never, I've been like the thing included with a mastermind with soul, but it's never been about me, at least at first. And I just was at first uncomfortable with it and then second, I was like, okay, cool, move past that. I'll just bring in. It won't be just a Nick show. Like it was the first time and I taught the whole time. The first time. Then the second time I was like, cool, I'll find, at least use my circle competence and the things people are already asking me to do. I'll bring in those types of things,

people that are better.

So to me, I'm, I'll spare you, but I'm, I'm taking an approach of just trying to be the most helpful mastermind in the room where people are not afraid to demonstrate and actually get value in the room as opposed to just keynote. So things are actually getting done. And an example of that is like shout out to Josh Gavin who came in and he offered, he's like, what do you want me to speak on? I go, bro, actually, I would love for you to live demonstrate how you would craft a low ticket offer for someone in the room and just choose someone, do a hot seat. So that's the vibe, right? It's just, well.

And dude, again, goes back to the outcomes, like in the way that you explain it. You need to identify what they want to pull out of that day because you're not selling the day itself.

No, well, yeah, I could, I mean, I could sell it with Status Cell, but that's not me either.

Really. Yeah, you're not. I'll give you a quick example here and we'll move on. There was an offer I was at an event for and I had a brand and this particular brand wanted to roll out a 30k mastermind and you know, the day before the event or the day of the event, I can't remember, this person said, we're not going to launch it. It's not ready. And I said, well, what do you mean? What do you mean? There's a, there's a room full of people here. Like they want it and they thought it wasn't the right time, they thought it wasn't the right audience. I literally. So, so basically instead of doing a full presentation and a pitch from stage, they literally just said, hey, we have this other thing. If you're interested, talk to Josh. And I sold three 30K programs. Just like, without any pitch, just talking to them right there. Right? So I sold 3 so 90k in like 15 minutes. It was really fast. Now, one of the reasons they felt it wasn't ready yet is because they weren't done with the on demand curriculum. And so in that moment, I said, no worries. We're going to call this consensus curriculum. And the idea of this is we're going to say that the whole purpose of this mastermind is because we want to. We don't want to assume we know what you want to learn. We want to come together with the group and gain a consensus and help build the curriculum together. Because, Nick, wouldn't that be so much more powerful? Instead of you becoming in. Instead of you coming in, man, getting locked into this stuff that we think you want. Imagine you get to tell us exactly the curriculum you want and we build it for you. And so over the next six weeks, we're going to build this curriculum together and we're going to produce exactly what you said you wanted to know.

And they bought that. That sounds like that would work for me because that's. That's what I'm after. I'm like, whoa, we're all building a growth model right now that's relevant to this day and age in 2026. That's sick. So, like, it's a living, breathing, like, growth model. Not anything that's outdated.

That's not like your mother's old web stale course that somebody thought of in the past. And so, yeah, my point is like, that how you figure out a pitch, it's. It has to be important to them.

Okay.

And. And then obviously I just have to say this because we're on a podcast and I truly believe this. Like, absolutely. Deliver and back up what you sell. I'm. I am not saying.

I thought you were gonna make an FTC disclaimer. Like, yeah, like, you will not. You are not guaranteed to get an ROI on working with me or Nick. No. That's hilarious, dude. Of course. So delivery and service delivery, that. Just expressing it even in the pitch itself. Do you do that? Like, that's a. That's a good disclaimer. But do you say anything? Because to me, that can be a weak frame or it can get them focused on the wrong thing. Is like, we, without saying guarantee roi, but it's just like, we go the, like, what do you do there? Action based.

Like, how do I address compliance when I'm pitching? Yeah.

Or just risk reversal. Let's just call it even.

Yeah, dude, I, I lean in it, I lean into that heavily. I'm like, dude, by the way, like, compliance is super important to us. Like, I'm gonna guess because the type of person that you are, Nick, like, you don't want to work with somebody that has to tell you how much money they're gonna make you for you to say, yes, we know. And you're smart enough to realize that. That's usually a bunch of bullshit at the end of the day, man. Like, we can't guarantee anything because you're the person that's gonna do it. But what I'll tell you is, like, we have a really good program. I think you would be hard pressed not to get the results out of this if you're willing to put in all of the work. But, but listen, we have a bunch of people that go through this program. A lot of them are successful. Even more of them aren't. Same material, same guidance, same curriculum. What's the difference between the two? Well, I don't know. The difference is one person did it and one person didn't. So I'm not going to show up to your house and hold a gun to your head every day and tell you you got to get up and it's time to put in the work. But you know, if you put in the work, I think that there's, you know, there's a lot that you'd be able to get out of this program. So I'm just speaking on the fly. My point is like, it's all around them and I use a lot of self selection bias. Right. You know, I know some people like to refer it to today as, you know, identity based sales. Really, you're getting them to self select the type of person that they are. And you know, most people feel pretty good. And you have to be careful about that too because like, for example, if I'm selling somebody that I know kind of has a lot of self doubt and a lot of fear, and I'm not selling to a more sophisticated audience. You have to angle that a little bit differently because if you say those things, they might think to themselves, well, no, I'm not really good at getting things done by myself. I'm not really an action taker. They might think that. So what you'd say something like, now, by the way, do you think that you can make a commitment that if you have the right support, if we're there to hold your hand through every step of the process, if we are giving you tons of opportunities for coaching, for coaching calls, are you able to Just take step one, right? So you could say it differently, but at the end of the day, dude, I don't shy around compliance. I straight up tell people. Like, listen, I can't tell people if they're going to be successful or not. The truth is, a lot of people don't. It's the same as College. Something like 46% of people with degrees never even do the thing that they got the degree in. So can I guarantee you'll be successful? No, that'd be crazy. But I could tell you, we work our asses off to create a really good program, and if you, you know, if you use it, blah, blah, blah.

Dude, you're genius with that. Like, I. I just typed some notes of for me in here. I'm like, okay, that gave me a really good idea. Truly, truly helped.

Well, and on compliance, there's so many different angles to it, right? That's like, if somebody just specifically says, can you give me a guarantee? If somebody says, you know, can I talk to somebody?

Your favorite. What are your favorite guarantee rebuttals or that you give, I can guarantee that I'll be there. I can guarantee that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I literally, I mean, I say this similar language that I just said, but if they're like, can you guarantee xyz, I said, listen, I guarantee that I'll deliver everything that I just shared with you is included. Yeah, that's our guarantee. There's a lot of snake oil salespeople out there that will sell something and never deliver on it. I guarantee you we will deliver on everything that we said because we're good for our word. Now, can I guarantee you're going to become a millionaire because of it? Of course not. That's silly. Like, you can't get. Nothing in life is guaranteed or we all be billionaires, right? And I just. I just kind of. I think humor is important on that stuff because it is kind of ridicul, if you think about it.

It is where it's like, yeah, can you play?

I'm gonna guarantee you're gonna be successful. I don't even know you. Right?

Yeah. So, yeah, here's. Here's a guarantee. The offer is taking away. Five, four, three. I'm like, you. No, just kidding, Josh.

But, but, but Nick, really, I think there's good things to explain with compliance. But, like, at the end of the day, you're just having a conversation with them and you keep it real. You know, there's not like a. So if somebody says, well, can you show me, you know, some case Studies or can I talk to somebody in the program? We can't for multiple reasons. We can't for multiple reasons. Okay, no, yeah, no, we. We can't for multiple reasons. Number one is because just because somebody else was successful does not mean you're going to be successful. And trust me, Nick, it'd be a hell of a whole lot easier if I could just send you someone that was successful and now all of a sudden you're in. I'd love to do that, but because of client compliance purposes, we can't do that. Like, past success isn't indicative of future performance. So we can't do it for that reason. Number two, testimonials are kind of a joke because I'm not going to introduce anyone that's not going to sing our praises. So it's completely biased. And so I could tell you already what they're going to say. They're going to tell you how great we are and how well it works, because that's the type of person we're going to send you. So I already told you what they're going to say. It kind of defeats the purpose of doing it. And number three, and I hope you can appreciate this part, we practice what we preach. You know, we're showing you how to scale this type of business. Well, we're not going to do something that isn't scalable. We protect our members in our program. It's really important to us. So the last thing I'm going to do is have to set up a bunch of meetings to basically make sure that all these conversations are facilitated properly and within respect. Because you're not in our community. We don't know you. Now, we're trying to manage the logistics of all these other conversations. So for all those reasons, it doesn't work. And then you just go into objection, handling. But let me ask you this.

I love that.

What is it. What is it about, you know, XYZ that you're. You're still not fully confident about in terms of taking the next steps? And then, you know, they'll tell you the things.

The actual. The surface level objection that I got the most on this was none of those. Is what's the agenda?

Say it again.

The surface level objection. I got the most actually, was what's the agenda?

Okay, so, dude, you're gonna think this is funny. You are a perfect witness. I don't sell masterminds with agendas either, do I? Yeah, because they get picked apart. Yeah, they get picked apart. But what you have to do is you have to sell concepts and you have to sell outcomes. So what I do do is I describe the way that the day works and then I describe, you know, what we're accomplishing there to them there together. And so a lot of the times when they. They want to people, you want to paint a picture for them. Especially when you're future pacing.

Right.

So people want to imagine what the room is going to be like. Like they're trying to. If you think about going on a vacation, you think to yourself, like, well, what. Where are we going to eat? What would that. What would this hotel be like? Are we walking there? What's. You're thinking about the visual feature?

Pacing. Yeah.

Think about the experience. So you want to paint that image for them and give them. But it's not about like, this is what we're teaching and this is what we're covering. I never get into any of that.

Cool. That helps a lot. I'll. Last time I attempted to do that with an office tour video, like, typical info style of like, hey, here's what you can expect. It didn't look that great. But like, it's the, the concept plus the idea of it maybe put some people over the line. I did that instead of an agenda. So it's like that same sort of idea. But I love the idea of on the phones you have to paint that picture and you have to use a visceral language and then show people.

Very visceral, very. By the way, even I like using pictures of like, hey, this is the room you're going to be in. This is what it looked like last time. This is how we network.

Like, I probably shouldn't have sarcastically used an AI one too. Our office flooded the week before we did the first one and I told people that. And then I made an AI video with just a bunch of water and us surfing through the office. But that makes sense. And like, what would you specifically highlight in the office if you were to do something similar?

So again, this is on the fly, right. But like, it's hard because I don't even know what you sell. But like, I'll just make it up.

Yeah.

So if I. So I'll pull from an example, right? Like if I'm selling a mastermind, I might say like, so. So I'm going to sell the idea and the outcome that they want. Remember, that's what I'm focused on. So my whole frame is. And my whole narrative sort of is thinking about that. So I might say something to the effect of, listen, you ever been To a Mastermind before Nick?

Yes, lots of them.

Me too, man. Some of them were really fun, but fun doesn't always mean value. And so I had to kind of like decide what type of day I wanted to run, what was on brand for me, what do I want my members to leave with. And when I, when I think about that, I think back to some of these masterminds that were run kind of like a party where it was just like it was a bunch of fun and there was good speaking and it was motivational and there's network and all this stuff. But like there wasn't a ton of substance, you know, there wasn't a ton of substance and there wasn't like specific achievable outcomes to leave with. But I've also been in part of Masterminds where it was like, this is what you're doing every minute of the day. And now it felt like I was in school again. And I don't want to go to a frickin mass, I don't want to go to a fricking classroom. I want to be a part of a mastermind with high level individuals. So what we did is we made it. So the first half of the day it's extremely topical, it's very deep, where we have a handful of different concepts that we're going to go over. I have guest speakers that are going to be there and we go an inch wide and a mile deep on here. So you are literally after each session leaving with an epiphany of like, holy shit. That's what I was missing because that's what I want at this Mastermind day. Then at lunch, you know, we do, I'll paint the picture, we cater do to have this Italian spot. It's so fricking good. Really cool. It's just relax. Like everybody's talking. Typically people are talking about what happened the first session, then what we get. So I'm kind of painting the picture, right?

Yes.

So when I go into that, I say so. So ultimately, ultimately, Nick, like what I want in this day, if I planned it down to the minute, you'd hate it. But do you trust me enough to know that I'm not going to get fluffy content? Yes, I do. Okay, so just know that's kind of the framework and how it works. I know what my members need to hear and that's the day that I planned for you.

And then landing on the. Oh, you don't trust me. Okay, it must be you. And then you would work on. You don't Trust yourself to follow through. And then you would isolate time and then money, like all of them, the court. Thank you.

Yeah. So that, that, that's what they want to buy into. And they want to hear the strategy. They don't want to hear they show up and nothing's planned. So. So it's all framing, you know, it's all framing. They don't. They don't want the mastermind, that's fluffy and rah rah. But they also. I want to demonize what they're kind of asking for, which is like, what's happening each minute of the day. I want to demonize that because it's like, dude, you're not in fifth grade. You're an eight figure CEO. That's not how we like, that's not how we enjoy things. And so I kind of demonize what they thought they wanted. And now they buy into a concept.

Yeah, I already have that. I can give them what happens every five seconds in my life gets recorded on my computer. So to me, that resonated so well. Man, you just armed me with an arsenal. I like, that was a level of. Of scripting on the fly that guys, if you're watching this, most people don't like. I would not prep Josh for this and give him softballs. I don't give anyone here softballs. I'm just genuinely curious and wanted help on my own stuff. So, dude, thank you. You're invited. On the Mastermind, you were. You were on my dream 100, and I'll show you the rest of the guests too. That was the only thing that I think saved me from the lack of marketing messaging, because then we'll move on to different funnels because I want to know what else you did. This is basically what it was last time. The first time, it was just a form, an application form, and it just said this. It was like, didn't say anything. People had asked for more information. So you can see probably why. Clear but not like, sexy or it doesn't for the benefit, so.

Well, you know, it's funny too. I was. I was laughing like, you text me, like, the day of the mastermind, you're like, hey, you're on your way, right? Yeah, I'm like, what? Nowhere? Because we got the next one.

Yeah, because you were on the list. So if. If you guys want to see the list, let me see if I can show it here. This is truly the list. And Josh is like next to 50 cent or something on my list of people to invite. Where are you? It was pretty Funny, I was just going through my confirms.

Yeah.

50 Cent and Cole Gordon. Cal, can I. Yeah. Josh Snow too. There's five Joshes on my Dream 100. You guys are well represented. Anyway, let's. This mastermind sales and high ticket guys is not the only thing Josh is uniquely skilled at. He has services for pretty much any sort of sales motion. And I want to kind of test that here too. So I'm curious if I just drop down a list of different funnels that I know people that. Listen to me. Are running. We got people that are running book funnel ascensions. We have people running three and five day challenges. If that matters. I don't know if it does. We have people running BSL call funnels because they. That's what they come to me for usually. And then also in the past. Auto Webby, but not so much anymore. Live webinar. And I'll stop there. That's the most common front end gates and also just maybe low ticket guide slash ascensions in general is probably the second most common if you had to lump that in. So which of those is your favorite to design sales motion. If you don't come in and you don't have to work with the sales team and you can just have your own way. What's your. Your fave?

I mean I. Dude, I like selling really anything if there's good marketing.

Yeah, clearly. But way more bottles of wine that no one needs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean dude, my attention.

Yeah. My record is I sold a 6 liter to a 6 top, which is comical to think about. That's a liter per person. That was like. But. But again, I didn't sell it based on quantity. Right. I sold it based on the memory and the experience. But anyways, yeah, we sell on all these. I love content funnels. I think content has come back in a big way. You know. And I talk about this so much.

Or anything.

Say it again.

YouTube Organic or just any content.

Specifically a content fun. I mean YouTube's obviously great, but I'm saying like a webinar, a challenge model, case study. Yeah, yeah. Like something that it's about indoctrination and that's come back in a really big way. I think people mostly know that in 2020, 2021 like we were doing 25k. One call closes off a webinar that people didn't even watch. Like it was. It was just different back then. Now you know, it's. People say it's a trust recession. Some people use it a little bit of as. As an excuse but do you believe

that a trust recession? And what does that mean?

I believe. I do believe it, but I think that, again, I think people exaggerate it as an excuse. I. But I do believe it to an extent. I believe that buying psychology has changed because I've seen it. Dude, I sell a lot of stuff. We sell across a lot of brands in this industry. And we have seen, you know, it get impacted across the board. It's not like one or two things like it gets impacted across the board. And there. There's a lot of reasons for that. But. And we're not going to get too deep into it right now, but. But yet they do need more indoctrination that they used to need. It's all around levels of awareness. And I. I also think it has to do with a more distracted economy. What I mean by that. Let me tell you an interesting fact, Nick, because we sell a lot of different biz ops. I can't tell you how many times I'm looking at our sales boards from different brands and I see the same name on different sales boards.

Yeah, like.

Like they'll buy something to learn how to buy a business, then they'll buy a program on how to do it, be a real estate investor, then they'll buy a program on, you know, how to run an Airbnb portfolio, like.

Yep.

My point is this actually goes back to the basic thing. It's. They're looking for an outcome, they're distracted. It's shiny object syndrome. They're looking for a shortcut now, 80%. Even though that leads to buying multiple things, it also leads to longer sales cycles because these people aren't influenced by, like, real interests. They're. They're just trying to figure out what is the best path. And there are so many freaking options today.

Yeah.

And so that's. That's what. So the more content, the more they get bought into the vehicle itself.

Okay, sweet. So what, what then you mentioned levels of awareness, like Hopkins levels of awareness.

Yep.

Where does that come in play? Maybe just give one example for people that I don't know. I think the concept originated breakthrough advertising or something of that. But for me, I like, I go from lack of problem awareness to most aware. Like those five stages. How do you kind of take that and deploy it, if anything?

Well, let me try to give some sauce right here. I think there's a few things we could speak to on this that. That will be not what people hear every day. Because I'm like you, Nick. Like, I like to be analytical and deep and technical. And so one thing I'll say is, you know, I see on this list book funnel ascension and then you know, even so, you know, low ticket guides and then even some of these other ones you have to build an SDR motion around to really get your bang for your buck. Right. So one of the things I'll explain. You made me think of it because you're talking about content is I see that setter motions. I think people make the biggest mistakes with for a lot of reasons, the big ones. Oh, we could, we could go deep on this topic if you'd like right now. But I think.

So what I was going to say first.

Yeah, what I was going to say first about it is the setters should be selling the model so often. I'll tell you right now. So, so, so, so all right, you have a model or the, the mechanism, the vehicle, the path itself and then you have the actual offer. Setters should not be trying to generate interest in the offer. They should try to get the prospects sold on the direction and so on. The way that we do our setter calls is they are generating interest and amplifying desire for the model and vehicle itself. So, so for example, if it's an Airbnb program, we are getting them to understand we're increasing their awareness. An amplifying desire for the most attractive parts of an Airbnb business. We're not even talking about the offer, what we sell or what the inclusions are. It's literally just why this is the right direction. And then they have to, they need to commit them on the pre call material before they talk to the closer. All of this is awareness.

Yeah, that is, that is very unique. I feel like to you because you've dealt with so many situations where you didn't have the benefit of having a nice tight VSL or webinar that someone would write for you that would set you up because sometimes that's cleared. So if you have to like do that on a call, that's like sorcery to me of just like how do you, how do you do that specifically? And then what homework step and what's the expectation?

Yeah, so a couple things for setters, the scripting is all around awareness. So and then we, and then we're actually giving awareness too. We're kind of giving in, you know, we're sharing. So what I like to say is I think a lot of people are getting really tired in the industry of fluffy sales calls where again like Jeremy Miner, great sales trainer, an incredible salesperson but I think there's a lot of people that they, they'll try to follow his process, but they're not. They don't actually understand sales. So they say very surface level. So what do you.

What do you care about?

So why do you want to do this? But why, though? And why now? And what would happen if you did? And they're very fluffy. So what happens is the prospect gets to the end of the call and they're like, I don't know anything different than I did at the beginning of the call. What we want, what we want, where the industry shifted is we want to demonstrate expertise to amplify desire on these calls. And if you're a really good sdr, you're salting. Salting. What that means is like you're making their mouth water.

So you. Okay, so the str, you're not. It's both in them. Position. SDR is almost the expert is what you're training them to be.

No. Yeah. No, you're positioning the closer, the program advisor, as the expert.

Got it now?

Yeah, yeah. So they're positioning the closer as the expert, but they are sharing information that increases interest and awareness because that's the big difference. So you'd be asking questions like, so you know, so what about Airbnb arbitrage, like, was most attractive to you?

I don't know. I don't know, man. I just, I just. Media buying, actually just a lot like click and bait ad. And I'm here. I thought I was going to get a cash giveaway.

Exactly. No, but you say it as a joke, but exactly. A lot of the times they say. They don't say the cash giveaway thing, but a lot of the times the prospect will say the sdr. You know, I don't really know. I just saw an ad and it looked interesting.

Exactly.

That thing right there is why they're not going to show up to the next call, is why they're going to be a horrible lead for the closer and why they likely won't convert. They don't know anything.

So you have to dig. Yeah.

We call it he indexing. We have to identify where on this buying gradient are they and then we understand. And by the way, you're not turning into a teacher. You're still a salesperson. But that shows us how we need to educate them and we keep. And now all of our questioning, all of our sequencing is around things that give us an opportunity to educate them on the most attractive parts of the model. Right now they're like, like I. I really want to learn more about this. I want to talk to the program advisor.

Sweet. And then I'm guessing because the program advisor. And guys, if you're listening to this too, sales usually closers. Josh probably knows a few other ways can be framed as a strategy session where there is like a degree of an expertise for the closer and an application frame where you're applying to work with the person above them even. And probably a variety of different other frames that you've played around with. What, like expertise frame do you kind of set for this person?

Yeah, so I don't want to create other objections for the closer. So I don't love the strategy session thing these days, especially because it sets a different expectation for the call where a lot of people are like, they want to unload their shit on you and have you diagnosed. Yeah.

Work in my business.

What I like. So, again, this is a really critical part of a setter. You know, when they're setting the call, it's all about edifying the closer. So they might say. So, Nick, you know, based on our conversation, man, like, I think this is definitely at least something that's worth continuing to explore for you. Based on you saying xyz, I think you're really going to like this. What I'm going to do, I'm going to set you up with Mikey. He's one of our top program advisors, but I specifically want to put you on his calendar because he's a lot more analytical and can and can speak to some of the more specific nuances of this. And I'm feeling like that's the type of person that you are. That's the type of information you want. So just so you know, this call is 100% about you, Nick. Like, Mike, he's gonna. He's gonna make sure there's no. No stones on unturned every questions answered. And I'm gonna. By the way, I'm gonna give him the context of this call. He knows the program like the back of his hand, so he'll be able to take you through all of those things to kind of determine with you if this is a good fit. So you. You see, that was brilliant.

That was one of the best. Dude, I. I don't give that praise lightly. That was really, really well done on that set, like, call.

You can feel the difference though, right, Nick? Like, yeah, dude, let's. Let's be real. Most setter calls sound like this. Awesome. Well, I think you're definitely gonna like this. Yeah. So, yeah, really good time for You.

Yeah, I'm gonna. You're gonna. I'm gonna like paying you on this next call. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. When's a good time for you? Oh, a week later, perfect schedule. And then they know. Show the closer.

Yep. Do you. What do you. This one's like a two second one. What do you do when they say, you know what? I don't really know a good time right now. Could you text me or email me?

Well, I, I don't, I don't ask the time. That's the whole thing. So what you say is perfect. So I want, I want to get you in with Mikey. Like I was saying.

Yeah.

I'm looking at his calendar right now. He's got a pretty busy day tomorrow. But let me tell you what,

I'll just cancel.

Would you be able to swing maybe 9:30am tomorrow?

Okay. I love that. Prizing the time. Yeah, yeah.

Like, because, because, dude, I. I'm not just gonna give you any time. Could you do maybe 9:30am tomorrow? Now here's the part where a lot of strs mess up. They might say, you know, tell. Tell me what they say, Nick. They usually say, oh, well, can we. Can. That's great.

I'm going to send you the calendar link. Go ahead and book it. Right now is the number one mistake.

Well, that is the mistake. But before that, a lot of them push back on the time and they'll say, oh, I'm not free. Then, like, it's a busy week, let's look into Monday. Yeah. So.

Destroys the velocity.

Can I. Can I be really honest with you, Nick?

Yeah, you can.

So, dude, I just. Listen, I've been doing this for a long time. Like, trust me when I tell you not everyone's the right fit for this. And that's, that's totally okay if that ends up being the case. But I've done this for a long time. If I push somebody out that far out, a lot of the times they don't remember this conversation. It's kind of like we're starting over from zero. And so I'm actually not allowed to book somebody out that far. But. But let me ask you this. It sounded like you were really serious about this. You can't just find even 30 minutes over the next couple days. And I could be flexible on our end, but is there any time between now and Friday that I could just. Just, you know, bridge that. That window for you? And so I'm just. I just let them know, like, hey, we don't even book out that far. We're gonna have to start over the whole process. You're not going to remember this conversation. And frankly a lot of people just don't show up when it's booked out that far. And I don't have the authority to do that. But I do have the availability for the next two days. I'd love to get you in. Is there another time that works? And so the biggest thing, Nick, is we treat the time to book for a closer as an objection. Most, most setters do not.

That's. So I'm gonna steal that from you.

Like that's, that's one of the biggest. Yeah, you can have it for free in any listener. Like that. That is the biggest thing is you have to really edify the closer, get them sold on the model and then freaking get them in in the next 48 hours. Otherwise they end up no showing anyways.

And even dude, it's even more than that. Like that's why I'm like, as a media buyer, I need a sales leader like you or an org like you to make my model work. Because I always tell people as a media buyer, you usually hear from sales one of three things. And it can oscillate between these three things. Phase one is I need more leads. Fill the calendars at all costs as soon as they're filled the next day. Hey, the leads suck, right? Lead quality concerns now and then once lead quality normalizes or it's good, usually the sales manager will go away for a while. But at some point they'll come back and they're like, why aren't they buying? Like they're not buying, they're not qualified, they lack context. They don't know enough about. Right. It's. And that is actually a lead velocity problem because you're losing context as the sales cycle elongates. So can only optimize at best on meta on a seven day window. I think Google too. So if I have a set close or a set like media bar sets it on calendar to setter, setter to closer, closer closes it and that's outside seven days. I can't optimize. So now I'm like now I, now people are pointing fingers at me and I'm pointing them back at sales and then the whole thing like can become hostile. Unless you actually have someone who understands this concept 100%.

It's, it's all. I mean I always say this. Most people talk about speed to lead, but they don't talk about speed to sale.

Yeah, we decided it's not just about

the first Touch point. It's about. It's about throughput.

Throughput, baby. It's like, yeah, marketing is a funnel. You want the water to flow through the funnel, not be stagnant. Like, people fix the leaks in the bucket. And that's first. That's basic. And then it's all about flow. Like, you know, NORD stream pipeline, give me oil from Russia. Just like mainline it across as fast as you can. So. Yeah, and that's the secret. Yeah, but a lot of people do. Don't even know what that means. They're like, lead to sale time. What's that? I'm like, oh, we track that. I track median, I track average. I track stages. All I want to do.

The last thing I'll say on the setter motion is like, Setter management is also very different. And that's a big thing that I had to learn myself over the years where most organizations don't have a separate leader for setters.

And you're right, that is. How do you find a setter manager? I don't have one. I would love one.

Well, to be completely honest, it was all about our training curriculum. We had to build the curriculum ourselves for setter management. And then we just found somebody that has really good experience, both as a setter and a manager, and then we made that person a setter manager.

That makes a ton of sense. Do you, like me, have a hard time converting setters to closers and it's just like, better some setters or it just better off staying as a setter?

Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. There's a good amount. There's a good amount of people that, yeah, they'll become a closer, but there's a whole other type of person where they could be an amazing setter and they will not do well as a closer. And it actually has to do with what I was about to say. Okay, Setter managers, it's. Is there sales? Of course there is. They're still running a discovery. They're still, you know, doing these things we talk about. But we manage setters more on technical compliance. What I mean by that is here's a list of 10 things you have to do on a call. How many boxes can we check? That's who the. That's who the best setter is. And so, for example, did you increase the awareness around the model? Did you edify the closer? Did you book within 48 hours? Did you get the commitment that they're going to watch the content before that call? Like, all of those things is, you know, this is a list of examples. That's what leads to high conversions when most. Most setter managers, they don't look at it or first of all, they're not a set of manager. But most managers, they don't look at any of that shit. They're just looking at, oh well, ask the discovery question like this or that. And they're missing all the main points

with setting do all the time straight to like training and usually training the area that they don't need coached in due to lack of understanding a variety of other factors. But that checklist, I would pay money for that checklist. If you had it for sale, do you have it for sale?

I'll talk to you about it offline, but yeah, I'll talk you through our main. Those are a bunch of them though. But again, also setters, managing setters, it's a more technical management role. Most of what we manage with setters is in a spreadsheet and a checklist, like I said. So for example, we go through a list of things on what we evaluate with setters. Number one is, is capacity correct. Are they even getting the correct amount of leads for their dialing cadence?

Number two, I'm insulted you would ask, Josh. Of course, yeah.

Number. Number two, not you. Right. Number two is output. Are they making the amount of dials they're supposed to make every day? Number three is connection rate. Are they connecting with as many people as they need to connect with or something off. So you're basically going through all the activity KPIs and then you have the call checklist itself. Right? Are they, you know, and then it goes through all those steps that I was talking about. So managing setters, you know, SDRs in general is a very, very different process. It's very misunderstood. And it is the reason that more than half the people I talk to say, oh yeah, setters don't work for our business.

Oh yeah, people, yeah, everything works and doesn't work is kind of my thought. It depends on the context. But where what I hear actually more commonly people that come to me for setters don't work is they blame the recruiter. So I'm curious, for recruiting, who do you go to if you don't want to reveal a source or do you recruit it yourself?

We don't. We don't go. Everything's in house yet. So I have a director of talent acquisition. She's recruited 600 sales reps in 18 months. We have a sourcing team under her. Yeah, we do. We do very high velocity recruiting. But I'll Tell you this, it's a combination of several things. I don't believe you find top talent, you develop it. So it's not as much emphasis on talent acquisition as it is talent development. So. But you didn't. You need to verify the raw potential. So I'm not, by the way, I'm not saying you hire unexperienced people. I'm just saying that alone I do. It's not going to be it. Right. So in the interview process, we have a real skills assessment. They like, they have to do a full mock call. They consume 3 hours of content just to prepare for the call. That shows level of commitment and a couple of other things. Then our ramping process, they go through a lot of fricking training. And then it's, you know, it's the management motion from there. Dude, you can't blame a recruiter because if somebody blames a recruiter, my very first question to them is, I say, okay, what's your onboarding process look like? Okay, what does your ramping process look like? Okay, what is your performance management motion? Okay, and what training assets do you have like it. And the answer is usually, well, we don't have any of those things. It's like, okay, we have a phone

book and they're going to cold call leads out of it.

Well, look at somebody like, look at somebody like Cole Gordon. Dude, that's someone I respect. He's great at what he does. Well, how come so many people have bad experiences there? Well, has. And by the way, when I'm say that every company has bad experience, I'm

not saying like, I use, I use Cole for recruiting. I still. But I.

And here's my point. And here's my point. It's not that he's not doing a good job. It's that it's a hard business because most of these clients, they don't have. They don't do what they're supposed to do for it to end up working. You know, there's just so much. But you can't blame the recruiter. They're good at finding talent. And most of the time, the. The client signed off on the talent.

Yes. No, 100%. And I, yeah, I've seen it enough. And I generally just tried to always take like, ownership. Extreme ownership isn't like my number one value, but it's what I believe. Basically, I forget the exact definition of just like 99 of the time. Unless it's an act of God, it's your fault. And even if it is an act of of God might as well accept it as your fault anyway. So like, it's nothing you can do to me.

Let me say this. I. I'm sure we're probably coming to an end here soon.

Yeah, yeah, we are. I think we might actually be over. Dude, I just got excited. So.

Okay, well, I'll say this one last tip and, and hanging up. We do a lot of volume through webinars. We do a lot of webinars every single week. One tip I'll give you guys and you could always reach out to me or DM me if you have more questions on this. But for webinar scripting, it is different than normal scripting and that is so freaking important. The talk track is very, very different because typically we have a two part close process in daily lead flow or non webinar models. When they haven't seen the pitch or the offer, you would do an intro and discovery and you transition into a pitch for a webinar. If they've already seen the pitch, you do an intro and discovery and you transition into the close. It's very different. You don't. They've already seen the offer and in a lot of cases they've seen the price. The other big tip I want to give here is the taught track should be extremely assumptive instead of like a preliminary discovery where you're kind of searching for information, you're confirming information. The discovery is very confirmatory. So you're basically. They saw the whole webinar, they saw all the information, they saw the price in a lot of cases and they booked a call. We are simply taking them through a discovery that's confirming the information that's very assumptive around their enrolling and that makes a massive difference.

And is that faster you find. What's the, what's just one example phrasing. Because if I fill out my application, I say I have access to financial resources for financial. Well, how would you confirm that? Or is that one different?

It's more the positioning of the call itself. Like hey, you know, I, I obviously I know that you're on the webinar, you saw the offer and you booked a call because you were interested in getting started with us. Which is awesome. Really excited to talk to you on this call. I do just want to go through a few things, confirm some things about your situation. We're really protective of our community. I just, I, I want to really make sure that this is the right fit. But I'm, I'm sure everything's going to be fine and Then I think, end of here, I'll kind of walk you through the next steps and get you on board and everything here. And then you see what I'm saying? Like, it's. It's con. It's all very assumptive.

Yes.

Because. Yeah. And again, this is all. All on the fly, Nick. Like our. Our talk track.

You off the fly is better than 99% of people I've ever heard track stuff. So you're good.

Well, well, here. Here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. You have to go into that sales call literally thinking this. Okay, wait, you spent three hours on a webinar. You saw the offer, you saw the price. They said to book a call if you want to join. You booked a call and you're not gonna buy?

Yeah.

It doesn't make sense. So people don't show up with that energy. And you're not aggressive or salesy or freaking whatever. You're just, dude, assume the freaking sale. Like what? People go so far backwards in the process where they act like there's no level of interest.

Yeah.

You know, and so all I'm saying is enrollment call. Treat it like an enrollment call. Verify everything. And so another thing is, like, we'll end here. Dude, I get excited about this stuff too. In my sales training. I actually have a sales training called what happens in between the questions.

My point is, every sales trainer, either you're thinking of things that no one's thought of.

Well, dude, I. I've watched thousands of calls, and I've looked at a bunch of top performers, and I've asked myself, well, how come Messed up my mic here? I think, okay, well, how come even if they're in theory doing all the same things, why does some closers close way better than others? And it caused me to go way deeper. And so every trainer out there talks about questions, and here's what to ask and here's how to run it. But what happens between the questions? And there's. And so there's very specific ways we do this and the way that we digest information and selective hearing, knowing what to unpack further. You know, there's all. There's all these different things demonstrating expertise to smoothly connect to value. There's all these things that we teach. But one thing on webinars is. And this is what I mean by being assumptive, they'll say, yeah, so I, you know, the reason I was attracted to this is because blah, blah, blah. And then you'd say something like, got it. All right, so that. So that makes sense. So that's why when you were on this webinar, when you were on the webinar, you decided that you wanted to join the program because blah, blah, blah. So my point is, even in the way you interact with the information and the responses is all around why they made the decision. Like, they've already made the decision.

Yeah, like, I love that, dude. That's so fascinating. I would love to actually go through that myself. How long is something like that?

The in between questions training?

Yeah, the in between questions, I think

it's like 45 minutes. But so just like probably any training center, we have multiple trainings that have some overlap. So I have the questions and then I have one that's called Hypnotic level close rates, which kind of doubles down on that. And then my favorite training, my favorite training that we give our reps is called Advanced Trust Building. And this is how we close deals with people literally saying, you know, things like, I appreciate how genuine you were. You weren't just trying to sell, sell me. It's, it's really, it's building indifference and trust through kind of like reverse psychology type tactics that are all rooted in, rooted in integrity. So, for example, I think these days people really oversell Nick and it's a huge turn off. You say, so do you think that I would, like, do you think I would get a lot of value in what's, what's an inclusion? Do you think I would get a lot of value out of the live events that is in the program? The amateur sales rep is like, oh, absolutely. Those are so.

Right.

But, but what you do is you go into a frame of like, yeah, well, I mean, let me ask you this, right? Like, are you the type of person that's really hands on and you, you learn better by like being in person and actually doing things, you know, with others? Yeah. Yeah, I am. Okay. I mean, for someone like you, then I'm sure you're going to get significant value out of it. I mean, listen, if. If there's somebody and then you say a disqualification frame that, you know isn't them, you say, okay, cool. Yeah. And the reason I asked that is because, like, if you told me, you know, there's some people that are like, they're diyers, they're a little bit antisocial, they don't get a lot from community, and they just want to put their head in a book and kind of like do everything themselves. Then for that type of person, like, there's probably not a ton of value in there, but if you're somebody that's the opposite of that, then I mean, these are some of people's favorite part

of the program, bro, that's like, that nuance is so. Yeah.

You see how it's. You can trust me now because I didn't just say they're excited to say something.

You didn't use a false double bind to it for like a sneaky one where you'd be like, yeah. Are you the type of person that, you know, like, likes to have friends around? Are you the type of person that's been ostracized from your family and no one will ever talk to you? Like, I'm just like, I guess the in person. Yeah, sounds great.

It's really about like sharing both sides of the coin. And, and I think that's so important because they expect you to be biased and that's where you lose trust. And then, and then they don't trust you when you say the things that matter. Like if you have to get tense at the end of the call and say, like, nick, I've spent a couple hours with you, man. Like, you need to do this. You know this is right for you. You can't say things like that if you haven't built extreme trust throughout the process. And reps kill all the trust because they're so fricking biased.

Yeah, yeah, dude, you're right. It allows the ability, especially a certain type of rep who likes to use challenge frames too. Like using early in the call, you just get hang ups. I've seen so well.

And dude, there's a lot of different. In advanced trust building, there's seven different tactics that we have. So the disqualification stuff was. It was just one. We also teaching. Yeah. Baby negatives or throwaway disadvantages. So a baby negative is if you say something like, okay, I'll be honest, Nick. Like, I think the in person days are incredible. I've heard the food isn't that great. I'm just being honest. I heard the food isn't amazing, but like the content itself, people get a ton out of. See, that's a baby negative. They can trust me because I didn't pay it. Like, it was perfect. Because nothing's perfect. But nobody gives a about the food. That's not why they're joining the program. Yeah. So that baby negative, it establishes, like, I can trust this person because he didn't have to tell me that. And he did. Right. So there, there's so many different ways that you build advanced trust through the conversations. But we'll have to do a whole other call on that.

All right, cool. Well, dude, thank you so much. Loved having you on. Where can people find you if they want to reach out?

Yeah, my Instagram's the best spot still. Troy. Joshua. I have a new YouTube channel, too. It's not new, but it's. I. I'm just slowly getting content on there. That's just Josh, I think. Yeah, link that. And, yeah, if anybody wants to work together on sales, operations, systems training, outsourced sales, let me know.

Heck, yeah, dude. Thank you. That was so helpful. Have a good one. Peace.

All right, talk soon. Thank you.