Meet The Man Behind Multiple $1M/Day Launches (Damien Watts)

What's up, guys? Excited to bring you another podcast, the Top Trends. As you guys know, I am just specifically trying to learn and find the people that are doing the best in the info space and distilling those insights to you guys. Damien, I was just telling you beforehand, I've seen you along online from like the last 10 years. I've seen just in forums and random groups. Dude, you're doing a similar thing to me. Taking people who have no insight into this world that we call like Internet marketing or infospace or whatever else you want to call it, and helping them to still teach what they love. And lately I've noticed you'd be more active too. We were talking ahead of time about vibe coding and all the different applications that are making us go further, faster in this space. So, dude, I'm just interested, getting to know you more.

Welcome. Likewise, man. Pleasure to be here.

Yeah. So, dude, what, Tell me. Take me through the last, like, let's say 10 years of your journey, because it's been that long since I've seen you. Uh, when you first got the aha moment about this Internet marketing space and what's happened since?

Man, look, I. I started like everybody else, uh, Tai Lopez. So, yeah, you're right. I saw his Lambo ad. I had just got let go from a. From a job that I just got out of, from playing college football, and I was already in the coding space. I was doing some stuff, if you ever heard of Udemy and Devlope. Devs. Lopes. I was doing some. Some mobile applications. So I have a bit of a tech background. And once I saw that ad, it kind of took off from there. So we went from Tai Lopez from local marketing to E commerce. I met, you may know him, Jared Getz. I do, yeah, Jared. I was with him like in 2017 and we were working on some e commerce projects. And around that time he was exiting the info space, going into Zen Drop. So I was there when he first got into the Zen Drop game. And then I got. I met these guys out of Atlanta, Georgia, and they were in the celebrity game. So they were managing big celebrity pages for celebrities, rappers, athletes, etc. And they needed some media buying experience. So went into there and was doing some kind of like the influencer marketing behind the scenes. So people were giving us access to their pages. We were running dropshipping products through their back end so we could retarget and actually hit the people versus sponsored post. And then from there, once I got into the information marketing game, the first guy I Got into it with was a guy named Jay out of Atlanta and he was in the financial literacy space. So that was back in 2018. But with the things that we learned inside of E Comm we were able to take that over to the info space and be pretty aggressive. And we took. He was my first million dollar a month client back in 2018. And then from there, once the word spread, it just, it kind of took off.

Yeah, once you get good at this game, people seek you out. Yeah, dude, I forgot until you actually said that. Now I'm like, oh yeah. We originally met through Jared. That's what it was. Shout out to Jared at the time. Drop surfing.

Yep.

So take me back to those days where you found Ty. Do you remember the ad or like the thing that was the unlock for you?

I mean honestly it was, it was the curiosity behind social media marketing. Like social media was around but I never knew that you could get behind the scenes and it had a back end platform and you can, you know, run ads and things of that nature. But yeah, it was him in the garage with the. I think it was a black Lambo. What's that like, what's this? But no, yeah, that's, that's how I got started. But I mean if it wasn't for that introduction, I mean I honestly don't even know where I'd be.

Yeah, dude, for real. And talk, talk everyone through too. Who's, who's thinking about like they're looking at drop surfing as maybe an easy win. Tell them about maybe the difficulties in starting that model because both of us have probably preached that it's a good, a good way to get into Internet marketing.

But yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing for me was the people who were copying everything they were doing. So like when it came to like finding a winning product, it was like how long do you have before it, you know, phases out or everyone else catches on and starts selling the same thing? You know, Nick Shack. Nick Shack. Whenever we were learning these new scaling methods, it was. I forget the guy. I think his name is the. They had a group of media buying. I forget his name but him and it was James and Van Ellswick and another guy. Tim. Tim maybe.

Yeah.

I forget who it was but besides the fact we were trying to learn the different scaling strategies, there was the, you know, the, the pause and stops, automatic tools and all these different things. So Nick was the first guy who showed me how to spend more than $10,000 a day on ads. And once I got that, it kind of like, we started to diversify into Google and all the other platforms. And I mean we got to spending 5, 6, 7 million dollars a month at one time.

Got it. So I guess, dude, I. And that's, that's when we first met was right around that era. We know Shaq and all those people in this space. What. Take me back to your childhood or like what originally do you pinpoint, like, got you interested in this space or like what. What from your story got you here to where. To where you're doing what you're doing now?

Can you say curiosity and sports?

Curiosity. Sports.

I didn't realize how the similarities with sports and business, the competitive nature, the, the adversity that you have to go through and all the things. I think that that was. That's probably the biggest learning lesson that I've. That I've gained over the years. But I would just say curiosity. I. I've been a big. I'm a Discovery Channel type guy, History Channel type guy. So being able to. To kind of go back and watch Animal Plan and just learn, I think that's the, that's what got me into this. But things that I was not aware of. I'm always looking to find, find new areas, dude.

And I see on your hat, dad. Gang, now I have kids too. Kids are naturally curious. Is there been anything your kids have asked you where you're like, dang, that's a really good question. I've actually never thought about that before.

Not as of yet. My kids are what, six and six and five. I had a. I have a set of twins, so I have three daughters.

You're just getting into that? Why?

Yeah, I'm just now getting into it. But like, my daughter is a she. She loves math and she does ask a lot of tough questions, but nothing to where I'm just like, ooh, I'm not ready for that yet.

Yeah, right. It'll happen.

Yeah.

Like my, my oldest, who's seven right now, is in a big wide daddy.

Stage right around the corner.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. So do as far as like your vision and philosophy, like coming into this, I don't know if you're like me. At first I was just like, man, there's money here, so I want to come in and make money so I can have the life that I want. And I want freedom. I want freedom to move and freedom to this, that and the other. What was it for you?

I think it was the, the fact that once Ty kind of opened that door, the first thing that I thought that was. Everyone needs this. Everyone who has a business needs some sort of social media marketing. And it wasn't something that I had seen a lot of noise around. Obviously, you know, guys like yourself and other people were already in the space. But as far as like small business owners and people who were just getting started as far as entrepreneurship as a, as a whole, I think that that's, that was my moment of like it's unlimited money. Unlimited money and unlimited capabilities and opportunities. So I think that that was, that was my defining moment of it has to work or it has to work. So I was going to figure it out regardless.

There was no plan B, essentially.

There was no plan B. Yeah, dude.

Well, take me through then. Like what was, what was the first. And I'm mainly interested in the info space just because that's my bread and butter. So like, I know you've done a lot of things outside of that, but as far as like what you're seeing on the horizon right now, have things been changing for you? I guess first, in the last year and then second, where do you see it headed?

Yeah, I would say I started noticing the changes around late 2023. That's when I started seeing the info space kind of, kind of shifting. But as far as like where I think everything is going, I think that the information space is transforming. I think that the information overload and I think that it's eroding right now. I think that any and everybody can create a product, especially with AI. So now I think that where the industry is heading is productized intelligence. I think that's, that's where everything is shifting, where you take the frameworks from the individual people, you take the pain points and going into micro SaaS. So you can talk about that here in a sec. But I think that everything is going to productize intelligence, where you take their frameworks and turn it into software so that you can help with the fulfillment processes and simplify the execution. So I think we're going from an information error to execution error and I think that people are going to have a hard time shifting if they don't make that adjustment.

Yeah, I same philosophy. I'm curious your take on it though. So from, let's go back late 2023, what were the first signs that you're like, whoa, okay, the productized delivery is changing?

Yeah, I would say it was more in the high ticket, high ticket space where I was starting to notice the changes. So, you know, obviously you have the different selling mechanisms, whether you're doing webinars Challenges or whatever the case may be, I started to notice a huge shift in the people taking the high ticket offers. Now people are still selling high ticket offers, but there was a shift of, okay, we need another way versus a VSL or a book, a call to get these people to purchase. Obviously show up. Rates started to decrease and we started to see quite a few profit levers and metrics that were changing and shifting. So then like right now, like, low ticket to high ticket is like the hottest thing right now, where people are sending from the low ticket. Right. So I think that in 2023, I started to see the shift of the high ticket starting to take a dip and needing to find another way to get these people to ascend and indoctrinate them better.

Yeah. Is that because of like, in your opinion, rising cost of advertising? Is it because of competition, saturation in the market? What, what caused this for people to have to find this new mechanism?

I think it was a multitude of things. Obviously ad costs are always going to rise, but I think that it was a trust barrier thing. And I think that the trust being lost and people not getting the, the transformation quicker, I think that that was the biggest thing. And once you started to see these masterminds and these things and people were. It started to become a commodity. I started to see more and more masterminds being the same. There was no. Everybody has a pitch on the stage. So I think that the buyer just got a lot more sophisticated.

Got it, dude. That's. That's my opinion too. Thank you. Thank you for confirming that. But as people bend towards one model, everyone copycats and then it becomes the same sort of service delivering. Right. So as far as productizing intelligence goes, that is something I feel like I could talk to you for hours about.

Hours. How did.

Yeah, right. How did. Like, I'm trying to think the people listening to this are usually people who are experts in this space or the next wave up and coming growth hackers. How do you go about. If they're working with someone, how do you go about step one, productizing intelligence?

Man, I'm literally right now in the process of mapping out all of this, this new stuff that we've been putting together around productized intelligence. My business partner was the one who brought me on to this. The term, the term product has intelligence. I was more into just systems and infrastructure. But when it comes to this productized intelligence, I truly believe that. I think it's a you do it or you die type situation. Just because of the, like with AI right now I still like the way that I look at it is everyone's using ChatGPT and everyone's doing the same thing. I'm very, very good at prompting. I'm very good at sequencing as far as like communication back and forth with AI, whether it's GPT or perplexity or whatever AI tools that we're pulling from, I'm in it every single day at this point. So when we talk about productized intelligence, what I see shifting right now is like I mentioned, when you go from taking a person's framework and then turning it into a productized monetization model, I see it as being one of the biggest opportunities in the world right now, especially if you're like an influencer or a person that has an audience. And the biggest problem that I face, and I'm not sure about yourself, the biggest problem that I face when it comes to scaling these influencers is fulfillment and back end customer experiences, et cetera. And I feel like now all of that can be solved with either building a micro SaaS or coming in and having AI automations on the back end. So I think that with the productization of that intelligence, I think that that is where anyone has the opportunity to make an absolute killing online if you monetize it. Right. Because most people are monetizing their audiences.

So I agree and let me, let me dive deeper into that because I'm curious if it's in the same area for me. Yes, agree with your statement. Is it in the latency of comms between like the group Q and A calls? Because for me that's what it is, is like, hey, it's, we had a Q and A call yesterday, we don't have another one for six more days. I have a problem right now. I need productized intelligence because I can't wait for your actual intelligence to break it down in six days.

Yeah, yeah. I think that like one of the main things that, that we've noticed, especially like from, we talked about what are the things that we're noticing from 2023 to now. The buyer's journey is now longer. Right. So like now when you talk about the high ticket, like when I started noticing that shift, that's a part of the problem is people don't understand that the journey has just been stretched out a little further. So it's not a 30 day window.

Cause for that, because I've had a lot of debates internally as to why that is happening. We're experiencing it too.

Yeah. I think again, I think that it's, it's more along the lines of the trust barrier. There's so many people selling the same thing and they're getting burned. And I think that that's what a major part of it. I think there's a multitude of things, but I think that that has a large part to do with it. And then people having access to AI, I think is. Is hurting as well.

Yeah. Because they have answers on the, on their.

Yeah.

And taking a chat GPT, asking an opinion, probably prompting the wrong things. But ex. Yes.

Yeah.

And then like ChatGPT is probably going to act in their best interest. It's going to confirm their biases and it's going to slow down the sales process 1000%.

And we can go deep into that because like my business partner tells me all the time, like there's going to be a documentary soon around people using chat GBT because it's just straight, pure dopamine hits all day long. And if you're not putting it in absolute mode and really telling it to be brutally honest with you with the decisions, I mean it's going to tell you you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah.

And what, maybe 1% of people are telling it to be brutally honest with them.

Exactly. Like, I'm all for the constructive criticism. I need you to break this thing down from A to Z. Where am I messing up here, huh? Yeah.

And it's, it's definitely not. When you think of their best interest as a company, it's not going to be like, yo, just take whatever they're saying at face value and just jump into it with complete optimism. It's not going to tell them that. No, it's, it's going to primarily probably, you know, take to a equilibrium as far as the human consciousness of be a little bit cautious, make sure you hear them out, don't, don't jump to any conclusions. Test it out, look at three different other options. Things that probably are not going to be conducive to a straight line sales.

No.

Yep. Yeah.

We're on the same page there. We run into a lot of. We've had people come to us that are now like, hey, well I'll put this in a chatgpt. And I'm always like, what did you start the conversation with? Like, that's what it really mattered. Like what is your input? Because that's going to determine your output and I promise you I'm going to get a completely different output than you are. So. Are you sure?

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree, dude. And I've seen people put in. I'm like, okay, that is a negative leading question.

Or that is like exactly like you.

Already know what you want from it. You're just trying to confirm whatever biases you have.

Exactly.

Yeah. So it's, it's, it's not problematic. It's just, it's interesting that, that whatever you want out of it, it can confirm being the most powerful bias that I find that people use, which is confirmation bias. And then also just the recency bias of it too. So I don't know if you've noticed too, but chatgpt, especially if you have search on like you flip the search on, it's going to find the most recent articles or news articles. So if you're going to ask it about something, it's very much going to be construed based off of whatever is current right now. Yes.

Yeah. For me, I stick with four. Oh, I stick with that model.

Interesting. Why did you try 5o and then switch back?

I've tried 5 and I just don't think that it reasons well enough for my comfort.

What, what was the first thing you noticed specifically where you're like, all right, revert.

Yeah, my, my, my output started to be less like the way that I program. I mean my, my starter prompts are pretty in depth. Um, it's not like a, hey, give me a five sequence email for a webinar registration. It, it's, it's, you know, act as this and I need you to do this. So I give it some very in depth parameters for every time that I start. But I was not getting the same responses. Obviously it's a little slower, but I did not like the outputs. It was ta. It was guiding me in different directions that I wasn't looking to go.

Interesting. Can you think of a specific example? Because I don't think a lot of people know. Ooh.

I honestly don't have a ton of examples because I switched pretty fat. Probably like the second day once it switched, you know, because first it forced you. First it forced you and removed the models. And I'm just like, well, let me test it out.

Drop down plus another drop down to find it.

So I had to go to the settings and then switch and revert back. But four zero just gives me. I'm more comfortable with it. I don't need all the extra features and functionality that, that it's, that it's giving. So I would just rather just stay with what I'm comfortable with because I know how to, I know how to talk to it.

That Makes sense. So as far as like generative goes, are you mainly looking for generative AI as in voice and text, or are you experimenting with video images? Where, where are you deep and where are you weak at as far as your experience?

I would say voice, I'm the weakest. But image and video, that's where we're spending a lot of time right now.

Yeah. What are you getting from video? Because I need to play around with that more occasionally. It's like, do you want me to generate something with Sora or if it's gemini, it's like VO3 or whatnot. What are you doing there specifically? That's useful.

Yeah, I would say, like right now, I don't know if you've seen the. There's some AI. There's this guy who has a AI filmmaking school and he has like this little $5 community. We've been testing out a ton of things with, with like the cinematic storytelling versus like going and doing like a VO3 of a realistic person. That's where I'm finding a ton of success right now with this cinematic approach. But as far as like the videos, like, we're, we're trying to figure out how we can get better video editing with AI. Like right now I haven't been able to find anything that gives me anything that gives. That goes for, you know, actual conversions and trying to get people to buy things. But that's where we're, we're spending a lot of our time trying to crack the code there. Because I feel like the, the first person who cracks a solid video editing platform, they're going to make an absolute nightmare killing.

Yeah, I agree too, dude. Yeah, it's, it's the same. It's like, wow, that was impressive. But I don't know if I can use that for anything. Yeah. And then as far as, like we talked about just vibe coding really briefly is as far as the lane of vibe coding goes, what are you actually finding useful? Is it making your own dedicated apps? Is it making something that's just like a web app that repurposes copy for you as a copy copy editor?

What.

What are you doing there?

So with the man. I've been doing this for the past eight to nine months, pretty aggressively, like every day, 24 hours a day. Just so that I can understand which tools are the best for vive coding, etc. I've been through them all, but we have a pretty dialed in process.

So people know too. Like, which ones have you tried?

We've tried wind surf, we've tried Bolt. We've tried lovable. We've tried all of every single vibe coding app that's out there. We've tried, but we found that Replit gives us the best outputs and then it debugs the best. And then we mix that with cursor. So my dev team is on the back end handling cursor and I handle most of the front end from a design aesthetic standpoint and UI perspective from a replit standpoint.

Okay, cool. Oh, repla. Rep what? Replit. Replit. So let me make sure I have that right.

Rep, R, E, P, L, I, T. All right.

Plus cursor. And then you hand that off to your backend devs because yeah, it's just a little bit more technical. It's like somewhere between a technical and a non technical dev.

I mean, honestly, I think that anyone can get started. I think that where you start running into problems is the authentication, security, governance and all those types of things.

Like, like, I just like figure it out. Debug yourself. Yeah, yeah, 100%. So what is, what's like talking to marketers who are using to launching info funnels? What would they use replit for that you find very useful?

This goes to the previous question, but like what are we using it for? And what we're seeing most people that are getting in the game, there's really no one in our culture. And I say my culture, I mean like the black, black world. There's no one even sniffing in this area. So that's a, it's a huge blue ocean right now. But for us and what we're seeing is my goal is to replace every single tool that I use. That's my first goal. So the only one I won't probably replace is Zoom.

Right.

But like Slack Replace Project management tool Replace even Slack.

Dang that. You're the first person I've heard say that.

Yeah, yeah. Because there's specific things that I want to connect it to. Even though it's a universal tool that everyone that in, you know, in the Internet space is using, I want to replace everything. Right. So that's, that's number one. But number two, I think that when you talk about funnels and things of that nature, I think that what we're doing right now, again, even with funnels, we're turning them into money machines. So what I'm going with there is, you see, like go high level. Right? They're an all in one tool. You see, click funnels. They're almost all in one tool, but everything is, is still siloed. Go high level, went a little bit, you know, overboard when it comes to all the features and functionality. But what we're seeing is that right now with the vibe coding is you look at these big platforms and you go in and pick the ones that people really need versus the overwhelmingness. And people are like, like Typeform. There's a company called you form right now and build form where they are focusing on one thing, which is a form, right. And they're getting users. And there's a lot of things that we're doing right now from a freemium standpoint, like when you look at credit karma and how they do their freemium model and, and there's a. Do you know Daniel Snow?

Yeah, I do know Daniel.

So Snow, right. So I just saw that he posted two days ago that he just launched a product called repriced. And it is a freaking vicious. It is a vicious idea where it's basically taking. If you're about to travel, right, hotel or plane, it will automatically go out there, take your booking, and try to find cheaper pricing. And if it can find cheaper pricing, it's going to automatically rebook it for you and the savings that it saves you. They're taking 25% of what it, what it saves, but it's a free tool. So they're finding gaps in all of these areas. And that's where I see agents to.

Call and renegotiate the price or what. What do you know the mechanics of it?

I do not know the mechanics, but I think it's a genius idea.

Probably wouldn't tell us either. That's.

Yeah, no, no, no. That's a. It's gonna. He's gonna kill it. He's going to absolutely kill it. But when you look at that model and you look at everything that's going on out there, when you force and all these big companies, this is where the micro SaaS, this is where the vibe coding, this is where we're putting a lot of effort. My big project is, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but this big project that we're working on is combining everything. So we're taking the go high level approach where we're combining everything for entrepreneurship into one place. So that's your banking system, it's connected to your funnel. The funnel is connected to getting a credit card. The credit card is connected to your ADS account. The ADS account is connected to the funnel. So like everything is in one place.

Right.

And then when I think about AI as a whole, what, what we're soon going to Realize is there's a million AI tools that we're subscribed to. Someone's going to come up with an all in one AI ecosystem that handles everything in one spot. So like I'm starting to see that everyone is just scrambling trying to find the next best thing. Go create it. Yeah, go create it. That's what. And that's where we're focused all of our attention right now is. So when you talk about the funnels, we're shifting with this product, productized intelligence. We're shifting from, you know, helping people build their individual courses or masterminds or funnels or low ticket or whatever the case may be. We're taking everything and moving it into SaaS. Because this is where I do see A Probably, probably 2027. If you don't have a super strong brand, I believe Faceless is going to be the next hottest thing on the market. Faceless, webinars, faces, BSLs. And we've created some proprietary ecosystems on the back end to just replace the guru because people just want the transformation.

Tell me about that. That's speaking my language. Because we're trying to do the exact same thing. And there is obviously there's 11 labs which was the first wave you had AI voice replacement. Then you have the VO3s and the hey gens of the world creating virtual avatars. Where do you see things headed? Is it an all in one tool or where do you look?

I believe that it's going to end up being an all in one tool. I see, you know, companies like hey Gen 11 Labs, they're owning their lane. But I think that very soon they're going to look at, go high level and say, well, what are, what other components can we add inside of this ecosystem that gives us the ability to put multiple hooks into the ocean?

Right.

So now they can get more people into their core product offerings. So when you think about like micro SaaS, like that's what I see happening right now. And the way that we're leveraging it is we're turning these micro staff. So instead of putting together a low ticket product, an ebook, we're just putting together a VI coded micro SaaS. So now we're getting them to opt into the micro SaaS versus an ebook where it's just more information that they can easily find come into the micro SaaS and then we're going to send the hell out of you into other places.

All right, what's an example of a micro SaaS? Whether it's something you have or something that doesn't exist. Okay.

So right now I'm actually working on a replica of you form. So my form is going to essentially put everything together for you. You know, it's AI generated and then it's going to automatically create the form. But we have custom dashboards that, because people just have forms, they're just capturing data, they don't know what to do with it. So we're putting in some custom dashboards and some different things with automations that link into other things. So right now it's just, hey, I have a free AI form that connects to, you know, whatever you needed to connect to. We have the integrations in place but now they go out and use this and then on the back end we're going to upsell them if you want, you know, custom branded, logo removed and the, and all the different things. Fifteen bucks a month.

Cool. And that's my form. Like this, my form.

So that's just, that's just, it's a, we have, we have, we have a, it's called Form Wise right now Form Wise is the, is the name of the, is the name of the brand. But that's just one example. Another example is forecasting calculators for webinars, low ticket, etc. So we're going to put those on the front end and just start dropping as many tools as possible to replace lead magnets and low ticket products.

It makes sense. I've done the same thing, just haven't promoted them as far as those apps go just because I want to provide value to them. Like hey, here's like my mind in an app replicated. Just use this if you want to figure out your projections or your analytics for tracking or whatever else it is. So as far as how it all fits into, what's your master plan like, I never ask anyone this question and I hate it. It's like what, what does your life look like five years from now? To me everything is moving so fast that I'm like more so what, what does life look like for you 18 months from now, a year and a half from now? Where do you want to be?

Yeah, we're really, I'm heading into the, the PE world. I'm heading into portfolio building because now I don't need any gurus, I don't need any faces. I can go out and create the tools or anything else. Now it's like, you know, you spend these 10 years building up the skill sets and it's like so, so, so you asked a question of where, where, where I see myself, I see myself owning 15 to 20 different SaaS that are all pumping out 50 to 100k plus per month. I have growth partners that are inside of our ecosystem. We're building these tools for their brands. And now if you think about that, I go build a tool for your brand. You got 60, 000 people inside of a community, get them into a software. Now. We have created crazy multiples. So like I'm heading into complete ownership and, and PE and, and having a fund where I can just start gobbling up as many companies as possible because I have the, the selling mechanisms. I have, I have my entire five years mapped out to the T in a lucid chart.

Damn, dude. Okay, then walk me then. If you already have that year by year, what, what's the next five years, year by year look like for you?

So next year this will be the, the micro SaaS error. I think that's where I think this is going to become a high commodity. But you got to be able to build it. I acquired a dev team of 60 developers and you may say, hey, well why do you need dev team if you can just vibe code it yourself? Well, I need, I need speed. I need the ability to crank out 60 different apps a day to go out into the ecosystem. So my goal over the next 365 is to have an app created almost every single day because one of them is going to hit. I know that for a fact. It's going to be a massive exit. One of them is going to hit. So that's what I see this first365. After that, this is when I talked about the faceless economy. I think everything's going to start going faceless. Everyone wants transformation and execution and outcome versus the person who's giving it to them. So we're going to continue to build these execution apps that handle fulfillment or whatever. The case may be that we're going down and I'm going into the faceless era of faceless. Like I said, webinars, faces, everything. And I'll have a faceless fund and I have a newsletter that's coming out called the Invisible Rich. So everything is around faceless. So that fits right into the micro SaaS of. Okay, well, if you want to just attach a SaaS to it, blah, blah, blah. So that's where I see the next two years is faceless and micro SaaS and vibe coding. And then after that, like I said, it's the, it's the private equity. I want to roll up as many people as possible. We have some pretty Unique mechanisms for filtration and segmentation that is going to give us the ability to have some very unique data with this tool that we're building right now. And I've figured out just to kind of give everyone a hint how to turn business into a video game. And it is, it is absolutely bonkers. We have missions, we have. It's kind of like a Call of Duty slash, Salesforce slash. I mean, it's, it's, it's really, really, really, really, really good. People are trying to dump all types of money into it because they understand that it solves the, some of the biggest problems in entrepreneurship, but it also solves problems in the merger and acquisition space.

All right, so if it's like Call of Duty, it's multiplayer and you team up, are you teaming up to find funding together to, to acquire businesses? What's the general idea of it?

Okay, so the general ideal is right now, what is the number one thing that people like? Why do businesses fail? They don't have funding, they don't have the next step.

Lack of capital, lack of strategy, lack of execution.

So imagine all of that being done for you. I'm going to tell you every single thing to do step by step, from zero to eight figures plus, and I have it in a gated ecosystem. So now you can't just buy your way into the next level. You have to go and earn it. So I'm basically rewarding action taking with XP tokenization. And it is a very good ecosystem.

Dang. So is this like, if we're using a Call of Duty analogy, is this more like Search and Destroy where we're teaming up and when trying to fight.

Like, no, no, no, this is, this is. You're going on into campaign mode and you're going through each individual level and you have to unlock each level. And when you unlock it, it's a certain level of inner joy. And it's so sticky because every action that you take breeds more money. Yeah, it just breeds execution. And that's where most people lack, is execution.

I agree. That's the thing that like clearly stands out. Everything you're talking about. I'm like, dude, this guy is taking action on every sort of micro development in the AI space right now.

Every single thing that you can, you have to take advantage. Because like Sam Alton said, and these people that are talking about someone's going to build a billion dollar company and be lean, like super lean. I can see it from multiple angles. Just because we already have the skill set of acquisition. And if you have Acquisition going into the SaaS world is, is. I think it's a lot easier than, than the others honestly. Because if you can just solve the pain point and solve the problem, you have a software, you don't have to do any fulfillment. That's the best type of game that you could be in. Obviously the multiples are there. So that's where I want to spend a lot of time is building these tools. And since I have distribution connected to all these influencers, have all these people I can do distribution deals with, it should be a freaking walk in the park, dude.

Then what are you lacking right now? Because you have the strategy, clearly you have distribution. Do you need capital right now? Do you need people? Do you need something else that I'm not seeing?

Like what are you short of honestly right now? Time? Yeah, I think that might be the only thing. I need more hours in a day because I'm sprinting in the directions that we're going because no one is there yet. We've never seen anything like what we're building. But as far as like you know, being realistic, I think that you can always have a players joining, joining teams and things of that nature. But with, with how good we are with building out automations and now that we have these SaaS tools that do the things that we need them to do to the t of how we need it to be done. I used to tell my team all the time man one day I'm going to be able to replicate myself and the day that I figure out how to replicate myself is the day that I'm going to scale to a billion dollars. Have you found now we can do it.

Have you found any good? I'm building on Delphi right now for both our brands that I ghost right for and myself. What have you found to be? Have you tested anything as far as curated knowledge bots that are central source of knowledge on your stuff just trained on your stuff. Is that something that's on your radar or no Going to start?

Yeah, we've already. We're in the process of creating our own LLM.

Okay cool.

So trained on all about the whole.

Large language model itself. Not even just something built on large model.

Yep. We want to go after the entire ecosystem. So you know we have some things that are stored locally. Like the goal is we have a. We have a lot of things. If I was able to show you some things I would definitely show you. But the goal is right now. Yeah, you can.

I'll be down. I just don't want to show Everyone. If you don't want to.

No, no, no, no, no. I just want to, I just want to put people. Because a lot of people talk a big game for sure. So I feel like that that's something. But I am a.

This is my love language.

I'm an architect.

Yeah, let's go day in and day out.

So I think that this is, this is one of the biggest things that most people don't understand is from my world, when I say that I've cracked the code. I've. I've cracked the code. So I say that to say when I look at growth engines, when I look at every single thing that you could possibly do online, I have it down to the T. So let's just, let's just scroll into book funnels, right? So what happens at every single stage within the book funnel process, what emails need to go out. So this is what I'm doing now to all the way from what happens in the beginning and how you get traffic to creating your content pillars and your micro, micro and macro content pillars to how you're distributing it to, you know, what happens with webinars, what happens with challenges, what happens with the types of products that you need to create, what happens with the fulfillment and post purchase. Like everything is mapped out to the T all the way to distribution and growth partnerships. And I'm not afraid to show these things because this is what we do on a daily, which then leads to equity, which then leads to diversification of real estate investments. So like when I say I get into the nitty gritty. It's every single component that you can possibly do.

A lot of people say they're architects. I fancy myself an architect. This is clean. Who to build like this.

Say that again.

Who taught you the build like this? Because like the actual logic that would, that would have to go through your brain in order to organize. This is insane.

Yeah. My business partner told me one day, like this is, this is your gift. Your gift is connecting dots. So like even with software, as we're building software, like I told you, the XP tokenization, like I'm connecting every single dot. I do all of this myself. No team members know anything. So when you see a person comes in, when they come into mission one, we have web hooks that are going into go high level and different things. But now we're building it all internally versus going through go high level because they had some limitations.

But talk me even through like what, what is that blue bubble around the green bubble? Like designate like the actual, the actual visual Design that you have is second to none that I've seen.

Oh, man. I'm just a. I'm a. I'm a control freak. And I'm a. I have a. I have a. Like, a really good touch for design. Like, when people talk about funnels and things that nature. Like, I've been building pretty funnels for since, like, 2016. Like, I came into the game and people had these crazy, like, super ugly white background, big text funnel. That's me.

You know, me in the way Sam taught.

I get it, I get it. But I gotta bring. I. I brought flavor to the game. And now I'm starting to see all these. All these pretty funnels and things of that nature. And my biggest thing with that was, how do you get a pretty funnel to convert? Because obviously having a pretty funnel doesn't matter as long as it's converting. That's. That's really the only metric that you really want to go after. But talk about aesthetics. Like, everything is color coded. I think I have it to where everything that's blue is. Everything that's blue is the actual platform. Everything that's purple goes into circle. Everything that's orange is a scroll that they can unlock. So, like, it's all color coordinated for a reason.

Who taught you to do this? Or is that just your natural inclination?

Just my natural brain. So my goal is, like, even with Nick and like, the media buying process, like, if I come over here to the media buying process, I just. Everything has to be connected.

Does your life work when you're buying media? You just see it in decision diamonds. Is that, like, how your head works?

Well, my head works like this. If someone tells me something or tries to explain a concept, my first thought is, okay, what's next? Yeah, so that's where my mind automatically goes. Because most people. And that's what I found with the guru spaces, they always left out, what the heck was next.

Max?

Yeah.

What happens if.

So I bought. I can't tell you how much money I've spent learning the marketing world and diversification and omnichannel, but I needed to figure out how to connect these dots. And I connected every single dot that you could possibly connect. From SEO all the way to, you know, running ads to, as you can see here, building out infrastructure. So that's where my strength is. And between 2023 and 2025, I went on a kind of like a sabbatical where I needed to figure out who I was as an individual and what I actually wanted. Like, obviously, the agency space is Brutal. Especially when you're trying to scale to, you know, eight figures plus. So that wasn't what made me happy. I made people, you know, crap, tons of money over the years, had multiple million dollar days, $5 million challenges plus, et cetera. So, like, making money is not the hard part. So I needed to figure out what made me happy. And this obviously makes me happy, is putting things together. So this is where I wanted to put a lot of time. And then now with vibe coding and micro SaaS, etc. This is my I can do this.

All day, every day PDF and just have it as the base of your. Whatever your microcoding is. Like, whatever it is.

Yeah.

This is insane, bro.

I love this stuff, man.

I don't want you to have to share the Holy Grail tab if you don't want to, but I, my eye navigated towards that.

I'm like, what are you working on? So you don't want to know where I'm going into this. This is conscious mind, subconscious mind. So again, me connecting the dots. Like first it was marketing. Well, first it was sports.

Right.

I needed to master sports. Yeah, like a master of sports for.

Everyone listening to this too. Your background's in D1 football, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, what was that originally for you?

What do you mean there?

Yeah, like, were you trying to do this? And like, let's just say you're a linebacker trying to figure out what hole you're gonna plug.

So receiver, wide receiver. Okay. So now I'm having to. I've always been in the follower mode because I'm always having to follow someone else. Meaning I can't move unless the quarterback throws me the ball.

Correct.

So in order for me to do my thing playing my receiver, obviously playing quarterback is, is probably the hardest thing on the field. But when it comes to playing receiver, there's a lot of things that you have to think about. So there's a lot of things that go through your mind from the moment of the snap. If a person is up close, you have to figure out are they going to try to press you. If they're playing off, what coverage are they in. Then you have to figure out and remember the play. Then you got to figure out and get the signal. Then you have to remember how many yards you need to get or what levers that you need to have as far as. So like, you can see I'm just connecting dots here.

Right.

That's how the connecting dots notice you're.

Having to make these snap decisions throughout the whole entire Route throughout the entire.

Route, is the safety coming over the top, is he coming down to blitz? Like all of these things are, are going through your mind in a split second because the quarterback only has three to five seconds to get the ball off.

Right?

So that, like I said, I learned a lot from sports. So now you take that into the marketing again. Okay, I need to turn on an ad. What's next? I need to watch the traffic. So like all it's just connecting dots. And then we started to put together playbooks, so. Playbooks, you know, we have, I have so many playbooks when it comes to optimization levers and profit levers of increasing AOV or ltv. So that is something where I've just been connecting the dots this entire time. So you go from football to the marketing, from the marketing to the micro SaaS and the development stage. But now my next, when you talk about the five years now you're going into year four or five when I think that I'll probably have exited by then massively through the PE and bundling of the micro SaaS and putting them all into kind of like a REIT. So we have this process that we're working on now of it's freaking sick. But we have this process where post the pen, I'm going to go into the brain and the body and from there then I'm going to go into the Bible. So I have this thing here and I'll just share this really quickly just so that people can kind of understand. I want to decode and pro and figure out the Bible in totality. So every single chapter, every single important name, important number, true meaning, prophetic foreshadowing, key themes, what is Yahweh's trying to teach us? What is Satan's strategy? So like I want to try to map out in a mind map the entire Bible. And I know it's a crazy, crazy thing to kind of try to shoot after but as you can see, I think I can get pretty close to having a, at least an idea of how decision like how does sin and how does Satan's strategy come into play? So without going too far into that, it's just a matter of like, this is connecting dots is what I'm very, very good at. So like now as I shift over these next three to five years, like, and I tell a person, hey, let me implement this infrastructure into your business. Like I changed my entire pricing model. Someone literally just came in and paid me a hundred thousand dollars just to build out their infrastructure. And Now I get 10% on top of that, versus, you know, a $5,000 a month client in percentage or a growth partnership where they come in for 30k and they give you 30% of profit or rev share or whatever your model is. Now it's let me come in and build the infrastructure for your business and I promise you, you're going to go from whatever you're at to 5 to 10 x multiples.

All right, bro, I have a question. We'll end on this one. And I've never asked anyone this, and I probably never will. So behind. Behind me I have these dudes who made this like really nice UI UX version of the Bible. And this one is specifically Genesis that they mapped out. And the reason why I bought it, not just because of like Christianity or origins or anything else, but just the fact that they took this much. This is just Genesis that they did. And they did a really nice layout of it. Do you have, I have to imagine maybe you've thought about this. Do you have a theory as to why God took the seven days that he did in sequence? Being a go to market guy, why did he. Why did he say let there be light and then on the sixth day be man, and then on the seventh day there be rest? Have you thought about that? And do you have a theory?

I don't play about God.

No one will ever ask this question on a podcast again.

No, no, no, no, no. I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say I have to pass on that question just because there's so much that I believe that is taken out of the Bible. I think that that's something where like, I really want to go down the rabbit hole of like right now the one thing that me and my wife go back and forth on is pre Adamic world. What happened before Adam and Eve. So obviously what hap. There's. There's a gap between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. There's. There's a massive gap of the world was destructed before the flood.

Uhhuh. Right.

So, okay, Satan and his posse are descended from heaven. Now they're here. Well, what about Nephilim? I don't see that being mentioned. I don't. There's a lot of things that are missing from the Bible. Obviously you have the book of Enoch, the book of Jubilees, and all these other things that are, that are taken out. And then even the most simplest thing is what is his true name? Yahweh, Yeshua. Right. So like people call him God, Lord Jesus. Is that the right name? So like who are you praying to? Like there's just so many questions that I just think that can't be answered by anyone here obviously. But, but I think that that journey of self reflecting and really trying to connect is one that I'm, I'm going to master. So like when you talk about 40 days, 40 nights and things of that nature, like there's things behind that, they're so, they're so like chat, go to chatgpt. Like if you can have some deep conversations, obviously it's gonna, you know, steer you in the direction that you're guiding it. But if you really dig deep and ask the right questions, it will give you an idea, an ideation of what could potentially be. And I'm the type of person that sits right in the middle. I don't have a right or a left. I don't believe in Republicans or Democrats. I sit right in the middle of everything. So that's how I, that's how I look at life as a whole. But the subconscious mind, this is something that I recommend everyone here try to tap into. You can reprogram your subconscious mind in a matter of months now, obviously lifelong trauma and things of that nature. But when you talk about manifestation, I don't really believe in manifestation and those types of things. I believe that whatever is in your subconscious mind comes to reality. It controls 95% of your everyday. So I think that these are the things that I'm going to be spending my time like I'm going to have a massive, massive freaking exit. Once I give all of these systems and all these things. It solves every single PE family office problem of pre and post sale. This tool that we're building right now, on top of having the entire growth journey of the entrepreneurs. I'm going to give all of my information away for free. And I want to see as many people succeed as possible. But it's going to be on the back end of a super vicious monetization model within our platform, bro.

Dude, I'm just glad that I took this time to get, you know, you more like absolutely. This is fascinating and I appreciate your time.

Likewise man. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me.