Mindvalley Hired Him To Write $100M VSLs

Dude, how'd you go from when, when did you get involved with Mindvalley or what was your first like, like unlock into this space?

How did I get involved with Mindvalley? Well, I just threw all my money in crypto and lost it all and pretty much for a couple little bit of help. And I didn't want to start a business, I didn't want to start a team. I was kind of sick of doing. I didn't want to spend money on ads. And I just bumped into him on a boat in Croatia and they were sucking with webinars. So I was like, hey bro, I can fix that.

Interesting. How'd you get on a boat with them in Croatia? Like Vishen.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm part of this, this Swedish entrepreneur American crew called Saga. And it's this like group of cool people that just travel with each other and they get like vibe checked by the owner and he just tries to collect really awesome people. And they had a six day cruise through Croatia on a yacht and I signed up for it and Vision was there.

I'm gonna see if I have to, if I can qualify. I have Swedish blood on my mom's side. We'll see. What percentage Swedish do I need to be?

You don't really need to be Swedish. They just need to be. You just gotta get like to events and just get in the circle somehow and then like meet the people and then they'll sit you down and ask, try to figure out how, how cool.

Your heart is, dude. Interesting.

That's. That's perfect.

I. I like that. Is there.

They just travel all over the world and party. That's it.

Interesting. Interesting.

Like a Burning man camp and. Yeah, that kind of stuff. And they live out of la. They're mostly in Venice Beach.

Interesting. So, well, how'd you even get involved in that? Like in this general sphere? Were you even doing copywriting up to that point?

Okay, so I was an affiliate marketer.

Okay.

I became a media buyer at an affiliate network because I realized that media buying was the skill set that could make me a ton of money while young at the same time.

Yeah.

And. And then I ended up getting some mentors as a media buyer who were some really big Facebook media buyers. Guy named Jason Applebaum, who's kind of big, but undercover big at the same time. But this massive guy is huge in the black hat space. And they took me in and gave me a fucking credit card to spend money on ads and taught me how to do ads. So like my origin story actually starts out in the black hat space where I just have these advertorials that are like all these things selling supplements, super aggressive. And so very quickly I got to learn about celebrities and I got to learn about high ticket, you know, not high ticket, but high volume advertorials that just convert if you just get people to this landing page. And I learned about angles and I learned about, I would say angles and that kind of stuff. That was the main thing and just how to push. And then our stuff got banned. So I moved into E commerce and. And then real quick, I don't know how to sell anything in E comm. So I just start. One day I just realized I'm just going to start rewriting these winning advertorials that I had. And I just started rewriting advertorials every day to sell these random econ products I would find. And, and I was spending my investors money on ads. And we only make money when you make money on day one with affiliate. Right. So you have to make more than you spend on day one and it.

Resets otherwise you end up in a cash choke.

Exactly. So I just have to make one money on day one or they'll kill me. That was the, that was the thing for real. That's.

It's not like a veiled threat. Some of them actually would like try to strangle you.

I'm sure the scenario right there, spending, you know. And then I just had some really big campaigns. You know, one day I just turned my. I just noticed that there were slideshow videos doing well on Facebook. So I turned my advertorial into a slideshow video and my metrics got better. So that was my first vsl. And then I had a really explosive win after that, which was like instantly sending me the McLaren dealership. And then I was just addicted to BSLs ever since.

Ah, dude, that's funny. Did you have any base skill sets like before that, like that you had learned or you were learning all this on the fly? Basically.

I spent four years trying to make money on the Internet before this and I read so many books on business, so I technically read a bazillion books on copywriting and marketing. But I promise you I did not remember a single thing. Right. Like I feel like that didn't help me at all one bit. And the only thing that helped me was just rewriting winning campaigns. That was it.

Okay, cool. Did you get the, the like classic version of that which is like by hand or did you type them? What was your style of getting trained.

On That I just had a winning advertorial. And it said, like, you know, authority figure reveals how to stop problem headline, essentially. And I was like, I need an authority figure and what's my problem that I'm solving?

Okay, cool.

Just. That's like.

That's kind of the era I. That's version of that. Yeah. One sentence at a time. And I typed it. Right. I didn't, like, print it out, read it to the long form. Like that always seemed. Yeah.

Smoking weed, trying to fucking rewrite this.

100%.

That's basically all day long.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a shortcut. And I tell a lot of people that too. It's like, okay. The idea of handwriting. The magic isn't handwriting. The vsl. The magic is like, it slows you long. It slows you down long enough to actually think about what you're doing. I think is like the idea of it got handwriting.

That's impossible. I. But I. I have a. I print all my stuff out. You can't see it, but I have a massive stack of paper.

Okay. So you would print out, read it, and then type it basically right next to you and type it. Yeah. That's my style, too. That's actually exactly what I like to do.

This what I got right here.

Uhhuh.

And they're all scribbled to the yin yang. Right.

I love that too. And I got like. Yeah. You guys can see on my back. Yeah. Too. I have this just like my corkboard of things, too, of sales letters. This one. This one in particular.

Look at that.

Russell Brunson just mailed us. And it's about our offer that we did together. So I was like, oh, cool.

I love some classic ideas.

Yeah, I know, right? So, like, I do that, and that's kind of like my. But all of us have, like, our own version of that, so I'm always super intrigued. But yeah, we. It's cool that we work in the similar way. Print it out and then type it. That's. That's my favorite way.

Yeah.

Yeah. These days, I think. Yeah. What do you think about, like, AI and going super fast on that too? Because I find that I almost have zero benefit to doing that.

Oh, of what?

Of just like, hey, like, digital to digital. But it's like, imagine like, one screen here is the winning sales letter, and then the other is your chat GPT window, and you're like, rewrite it for this. That almost teaches me nothing.

Oh, bro, I'm having a blast doing that. That's changed My life.

Okay.

Working really well for me.

Yeah, walk me through that.

Yeah, I'll walk you through it. Right. So I actually. So my style is like, I collect winning VSLs and then I decide which one I want to rewrite based off of which product I'm trying to sell.

Cool.

So I have a process. So think about what we had to do right before. I had to learn about my product, learn about the benefits, learn about the studies and everything. I had to do all this research and then I had to rewrite stuff.

Yeah.

And then I would procrastinate. So then I got a copywriter and I would tell him to go do all that stuff and I would just pick the DSL I want to rewrite. And I'm like, here's the plan, we're going to rewrite this. I give him the plan and then he takes a couple of days, then he gets it back to me.

So he would procrastinate and.

Well, it was pretty good, right? But it takes days. But he ended up taking a bunch of ayahuasca and quitting. So. So then, but thankfully like Claude 4.1 was out, right? So I'm like, you know, and I, I went like 2 years without doing much VSLs because I just exited my mind Valley stuff and was just building AI companies. But I recently got back into building a brand. So I realized the AI shit's very similar. Right. It's not the smartest thing ever. But you know what? It gets me the draft back in one second when the other guy took days. Yeah. I'm just like, I can handle that. So my first step is I have this seven step process to make an AI because like when I open a new window, like here's a blank page of AI shit, right? So I have to make a massive ass prompt that's specifically designed for my product and all my principles. And I paste it in there and then it's up to speed on exactly how to sell what we have to sell. And then I can start.

So you base prompt Claude, basically, no matter what, blank window, base prompt, and.

Then copy, paste, I paste that shit in. I start by pasting that in, I paste the VSL and then I'm off to the races. And I'm just one sentence at a time starting.

So that makes sense. So the base prompt is chunked down and you paste it and then one by one you prompt the thing.

Yeah, exactly. That's like.

Okay, that makes sense. That's if. If good. Okay. So I don't feel as dumb now because I was like, dang, I haven't figured out the like one to one, just over, over.

I have a, I have a. So I literally just. This is the, the massive free thing I give away. I'm dropping in the chat. Yeah. I call it the VSL Bible 20:25. But in the middle there's a thing called the Checklist for rewriting ads. And that's my actual notion document that I use to create these prompts.

Oh, this is sick, dude. I'm pulling it up right now.

So I just like, I, I literally. Well, I don't. I. People, I. Little people come to me, they're like, how do I make a VSL for blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, I just paste in the whole VSL Bible the Claude 4.5. And then like, here's his story. What should we rewrite? And It'll tell me three VSLs that we should probably rewrite out of this thing. And then I'm just going to remake that VSL and then create a little AI prompt using the thing and then you're off to the races. So. Dude, sick.

When we post this, we post your link. Do you have like a lead magnet? You want someone's opt in before they get something like this. This is sick.

Yeah, so this is. Thanks for asking. Right. So I am giving this away for free and. Which is probably not the best idea, but I'm just doing it anyway. Yeah, but I have a.

Always telling everyone, yeah, no, this is. Dude, this is. Yeah, people would pay money for this.

I know, exactly. Yeah, but I was like, you know, what happened was I moved a little too fast and I sent out the first email and I was like, you get it for free. And then the next day I was like, fuck, I think I, I done that.

Well, I mean, reciprocity is the first principle of influence. So it's first principle come back to you in, in principle.

And then I had like, I had some bad, some experiences where, you know, you make a promise and then the next day you're like, we shouldn't have made that promise. And then you take it back. Yeah, the guy you made the promise to is really pissed at you. Yeah.

Cats out of the bag.

I just felt like I was committed and I was like, fuck it, I'll just, I'll just give it away. Yeah, I have a, like a Kajabi signup link which I'd love to send you, but I just can't figure out the fuck I put it.

Cool.

But I'll actually. I know Where I put. It's on the website. I'll do it here.

I'll wait.

Yeah. Okay, so this is the. This is the Kajabi page. Right. So it's. It's a. So this is the model of why I did this. Because now I can just have people go here, get a free training. They put in their email address, and then they get to watch my two hour thing I just made, which goes over the free Bible, my whole story and the pitch.

Sick.

All right, then it's one click and you can buy the course.

Make them land here. This is the link we want to put in the chat. W. High score dot com, forward slash offers. Right. That looks like this.

That's it. Yeah. With the T on the checkout.

Yep. Okay, cool.

This.

Yes. This screen right here. Amazing.

Thanks for asking because I just had to figure that out.

Yeah, dude, I've done that too. I've done the exact same thing. So I got you here.

What do I do?

Okay, so what's your goal now too, like, you exited the mindvalley stuff. What does that mean? Like, you exited because you burned out. You exited because you were just not passionate about anymore. Wanted to teach. What was that pivot that you made? Or reasoning for it?

Yeah. So I'm really big into mastery. I like being the best version of myself that I can be. And the best version of myself that I can be is definitely a nine figure entrepreneur. Cool. So I had my skincare brand, which is huge, which I sold, and then I lost all the money. So I did the mindvalley thing to kick back my life all the way back up. And. And that was pretty. That was really good, right? It was super good. But it wasn't like, you know, flying around in jets every day. Damn it. Good. So it's like adventure continues.

Nothing in this space is even Grant Cardone's probably stretched flying around in jets every day.

You know what?

Hey.

But you know, there's ways to have a nine figure brand and exit it. So for sure it's just, you know, nothing. Just a couple massive campaigns. So what was the question? What am I cited?

Yeah, like what? What was that impetus? So like, you knew your potential was there and probably like, oh, yeah, get there. Working in Mind Valley or working under someone else.

Yeah, it just kicked it back off. And that was the end of my. I was more like a SWAT team member there. Right. My job was to transform their business because I love them and they.

Yeah. And I'm guessing if you stay in the Mind Valley ecosystem, I know they pay well. There's like seven or eight figure potential. Right. If you stay there and you're like the top, top, top, top performer. But there's probably not nine figure entrepreneur that's reserved for the founders of Mind Valley.

Yeah, that wasn't like it was, it was great. It was multi millionaire level of funness, but it wasn't like, you know, that's not for me. It's great for a chapter, but it's not my whole life's chapters.

100% understand.

Then I started teaching, then I started building a stuff and AI stuff was a swing and a miss that was kind of a challenge. Didn't end up having that thing be explosively massive. So now I recently started a new brand which I can't talk about because the whole VSL fucking space follows me. Yeah, they would shoot me if I talked about it a lot. But. But it's the same thing. I just got done shooting 5 mass 25 minute VSLs for 5 different massive products with a savage doctor and all hyper professional. Like a $45,000 shoot day over 2 days and then like another 25 grand to edit everything. So it's like big swings at massive campaigns because my life revolves around you and I'm curious about your answer to this, but my life revolves around making massive Facebook campaigns in massive YouTube campaigns that can spend, you know, that can easily do six figures a day, every day. Right. And the Holy Grail is to do that on a brand that people love. And the holiest of Holy Grails is to do that on a subscription offer with day one profit. That's when you're just on a totally different wavelength of explosiveness. So that's kind of the thing. So I'm still, I'm just, that's my adventure. I'm just on an campaign for that.

Or Brandon, I think that's a better Holy Grail. Like I've, like, I've played out that path to maybe the holiest of grails for you is like, can I do that in order to win a US presidential election? Can I get Donald Trump elected for a third term? Yeah, right.

You want to do that? Do you want to do presidential, like, what's that Cambridge Analytica stuff?

Yeah, do well, Cambridge. When I was, in 2017, when I was in New York, we could stare into Cambridge's office. They were right across the street. And I like LinkedIn message them a bunch before they were gone. Dude, what's up? I appreciate that. I think the updates got taken to somewhere else there. Kayla Kayla has some up front. Yeah, you can. It's for Scott, actually.

Sorry for interrupting.

Yeah, no, no worries. That's Josiah, our fearless CEO and looking for caffeine for our employees. I don't know what we're about to shoot, but it's something high energy. So where were you? Yeah, Cambridge. They were. I found it fascinating because they worked on. I was there for the fallout of the 2016 election and just like the amount of money that probably was involved with them. Right. It's such a high stake thing to me is like the ultimate level of media buying. I did end up meeting with Trump's head of media buyer, Trump's director of marketing during that era via connection with Tim Burt. Shout out to Tim Burt for introing me to him.

Oh, that's hilarious.

Fascinating conversation. And I was like, you guys are like, I'm over here playing with like, you know, like little money comparatively to like the games that you guys are playing in. The power that can ensue from changing the course of a US election. So to me, like, I, I would actually love, I do want to be involved in media buying in the US election. I don't care if it's from the Democrats, the Republicans sign, who sign me up. Okay, I'll play for the team. Yeah, it's kind of like baseball. Just whoever's paying me the most, I'm, I'm down.

And what would be the plan for that? Like, what do you want to do with that? Like, take 10% ad spend on a big.

Like, to me it's even. It's about the mastery kind of like what you talked about is like there is, there's like influence and then there is like this battleground where like, let's just say the US is typically divided. Polarized.

50. Propaganda, influence. Propaganda.

It's like the, it's the totally different level, bro. Totally.

Truly got blips in the sky flying through the air. Right. Next level.

Yeah, like imagine, imagine the placement options that they have at their disposal that you can't get. It's like, oh, right, right hand column for Facebook. No, try blimps like you said in the sky.

Try like smoke signals.

Yeah, yeah, try, try buying a third world country so they like, so they have this insurrection that distracts us from this, like this, you know, media, media controversy that we're experiencing in America.

Just like testing new forms of chemtrails in this.

Yeah, exactly. Can we, can, can we push chemtrail to the maximum? Can we cause a government, like, can we cause the government to like, Upheave and overthrow Nepal like right now as a distraction from whatever sort of us thing that's going on. Yeah, any sort of thing that conspiracy theorists believe to be true, that would be cool to try to propagate. You know what? That isn't actually what happened. You know what? That's a good idea. We'll leave that in the sketchpad for next election cycle.

5G turned me gay now.

Yeah, right. Yeah, 5G. Yeah. Could we. Could we cause Ukraine to, you know, take back Crimea in order to cover this up? So run. Right. So like that level of.

Pretty tight though. It's pretty hard on Facebook now to do political stuff, isn't it?

I imagine. Yeah. And like because of Cambridge they have ad transparency or ads library. Ads library exists because of 2016.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cambridge. Yeah. One time I hit a political button on my. On my account because I thought it was like. I forget what it was and I just hit this button it my whole account up like, oh, what?

But one.

I forgot what it was like some sort of like political qu. I was like something. Are you with political something? I don't know if I put the. I don't know if I hit the wrong thing, but it just like shut everything. Needed to have eyeballs on it. So.

Yes, that. That is a. I know exactly what you're talking about. Basically when those pop ups in the account occur, it's like, is this a housing offer? Is this an mlm? Is this something else? Or like you said, basically this was political.

It was like my page or something. I don't know what the fuck it.

Was now permanently lumped into.

Regretted it ever since.

Yeah, it was like, are you involved? Do you have Russian backed donors to your media buying campaign?

Like. Yes.

No, wait, no, I swear. But yeah, that stuff. I don't know if I want that, but I think it would just be fun. Right? It's basically like to me it's a different. It's a different battleground of which I've never done before. And maybe it's a huge headache. Maybe I want nothing to do with that. Maybe the pay is so small and the stakes are so high that it becomes not fun. I don't know.

So what would be the outcome you want to do? I mean, mastery. What is the. What is like. Well, how would you define mastery? How would you know if you were a master?

That's a great question, bro. I have an answer to that. No one's ever asked me that though, ever, how I define mastery.

A master of what? What would we Be a master of in the first place.

Yeah. So how I define mastery is like, let's just call it top 1%, better at a certain skill or use case for something. So here's what typically happens in my mind, because I do crave mastery. I own this area and someone's like, cool. I'm like, yeah, I'm the best media buyer for info with Facebook ads to an auto webinar. It's like, that's my lane. No one can be better than that. Someone comes in and they're just massively outperform, and I'm like, okay, I need to find another lane. So, like, to me, it's just like. It's just a game with myself that I sometimes compare to others if I have external benchmarks. That's really what it is. It's just a weird human heuristic that I think is rooted in psychology. To me, wanting mastery, it's probably rooted in a fear of feeling incapable or helpless. So to me, I'm just like, cool. I try not to optimize around mastery, but it is, like, what I want. Like, let's call it pretty close to like a Darwinian.

Oh, it's. It's. If you're not growing, your diet. Growth is part of eternal fulfillment and contribution. Yeah. It's an eternal thing that we all have to go after. If you're not growing, you're dying. Everything else, like, significance. You're not doing it because you want to be important. You're doing it because you like growing and you just want to be better than you were yesterday. It's the fun adventure.

Yeah. So you don't die. So it's rooted in survival.

I guess that's one way to put it. Yeah. Yeah.

If you reach, like, quote unquote enlightenment, maybe you think beyond that. You think beyond your Darwinian survival and you think about contribution, generational contribution. Right. Or something like that. Or you think about, like, helping. Helping the universe extend beyond or like the human race extend. And it's like, not just your family's legacy and generational wealth, but, like, the survival of the human race in general. And then you can just keep rooting and rooting and rooting until, like, you have an existential crisis in my independence. So, like, I don't know.

Yeah. So I like to say, like, mastery of business. Right. It's a very simple term for me. And it doesn't for me mean I'm the best in the world or the richest in the world or anything like that. It just means, like, you know, I Put if I was in college and I got a master's degree in business, what would I have had to done to earn a master's degree in business? To me, I feel like the ant. Like if a bachelor's degree was like a McLaren. Right. A master. In the business world, especially in the media buying world, you're in like an eight figure brand. That or nine figure brand exit level. Like you just. That's mastery to me. It's just like. I don't know.

Me too.

That's just, that's my whole thing. Yeah, that's.

I, I feel I'm. I'm with you in the same page. And that's what, that's what we're trying to do is build something to sell, whether or not we want to sell it.

Yeah. I just like the idea of having a whole many chapters of my life, like just being ultra rich and never having to work again and just doing absolutely whatever I want.

Cool. Is that cool? So that's similar to how I kind of describe it. It's like I'm after peace of mind, which is kind of what you just described is just like some people call like a few money or like whatever they want to call it, but it's basically like I can't be told anything. I can do what I want on my terms. And ideally that allows me to be a better human being because without any sort of external pressures, you're forced to confront your true self and master your own self. That's ish how I would describe it to someone.

I like it. Yeah.

What is it for you like, that you're asking?

I just like the idea of creating the dopest possible life I could ever imagine.

Okay. So cool. Is it like.

Oh, for me, that definitely includes having a nine figure exit. If I could wave a magic wand and be like, what would be the dopest life ever? I'd be like, massive exit. You know, awesome family jets all the time. If I want to.

Yeah.

Do a massive contribution. Yeah. Great role model.

But there's not like a bucket list of things you're not. You're not after. Like this lust for life or experience that comes after it where you have to do all these things in order to be like, quote unquote, fulfilled in life.

Oh, dude, I'm. I am very happy with where I am and who I am, and I just really love doing adventurous stuff.

Cool. That's.

Yeah. I just can't think of anything more fun than like, you know, figuring out how to make massive ad campaigns on a Brand I own.

Yeah. Do it right. And that's the stage that I'm at too. And maybe the stakes raised to after you get to that next benchmark or whatever as they never we do. But I agree there's like seasons to your life and seasons where you want to pull back, seasons where you want to push, seasons where you know the outcome. So knowing that and where you're at right now, like what, what does the next path forward or what does the next six months look like for you? Oh, I hate asking like five year plans. Five years. I've never had a good sponsor that question.

Endless.

Yeah.

Facebook ad creation.

Cool.

Making 10,000 fucking Facebook and YouTube ads, that's sick. So 10,000 create a powerhouse. Building the whole operation that makes that happen easily and consistently. Sick.

And that's about. And I agree like that to me is my favorite way to win in the present. Do you think the AI gets good enough to. Where it solves that and like everyone starts to, everyone starts to win by like creative velocity and we're all just pumping out so much that the market saturates. Do you not worry about that?

Well, listen, you know there are 700 million people using Chat GPT every week, right. Everyone with a product is typing in. Make me an amazing VSL script to sell my product.

Yes.

Everyone has now figured out that ChatGPT can easily make image ads for any product instantly and you can make a hundred image ads in five seconds, basically really fast. So there's some evolution happening. And so you definitely need an unfair advantage that is better than everyone using ChatGPT. And you definitely need to make moves that can stand out and, and make the harder things and go after harder things. And that's, that's what I think. But at the end of the day I can't do anything about it. So I'm not going to worry about it.

Right.

If that's. I just, I got my cards in my hand, I play my cards in my hand and then like there's. I can't do anything else. I just go with the flow.

Can't do anything else except execute your game plan, not worry about what everyone else is doing. You'll pivot if you have to pivot. Right?

That's it. And I cover, I cover my, I cover my bases there by doing ultra high production things, which helps me stand out.

Okay.

Like in a big way. So I'm able to be out. I'm able to outshine people because of my production quality.

Okay. So if you're working a day in Your business. Typical day in your business. Let's discount today because you had to perform a vsl, let's call it. But if a typical day in your business and you could work on any sort of value lever that you could. What does it look like? Where. Where are you starting? Where do you finish?

Oh, I've been doing the same daily routine. Daily. Daily.

Probably why you're so good.

All right, let me hear it. Years in a row, then.

I want to hear it.

You want. Okay, you want to make a ton of money, you gotta make a massive ad campaign. What's the secret to making a massive ad campaign? You have to have an amazing video. Assuming you have a big offer and assuming you got a good funnel and your upsells are dialed in and your AOD strategy is dialed in and you got someone checking on the conversion rate optimization. There's one job left. Upload a video to Facebook ads. That is the best video I've ever made in your entire life and has a chance of doubling the most amount of money ever made in your entire life.

That's great.

So that endless, relentless video creation. I'm on upwork literally right now, looking for new hook editors whose only job it is to crank out a bunch of 3 second hooks to all my VSLs. So I have hundreds of videos to upload ads.

Okay, so let's just say, like, this was the meat of this video. Let's just say this podcast that we're doing right now and you were trying to find hooks. Are you creating external hooks? Like, after this, we would sit down and brainstorm. Be like, cool. What are some hooks we can add to the append to this video? Video? Are they cutting it up into like, whatever Peter's about to say next and gonna try that and transpose it to the front or so to speak.

Yeah. So I shot a VSL and then I shot 10 leads for the VSL and the first thing I'm doing is I'm just editing the first three seconds of the leads.

Cool.

Now, there are. There is an additional strategy which I have not implemented yet, which is you get a guy who only does two second leads. Two second actual hooks. They're not like they're adding a sentence and a voiceover with a headline with me.

Yeah.

Split screen and weird something here and a weird something there, and then it goes into the lead. So there's a guy who can actually take a lead and make an additional sentence before the lead so that you have this extra thing. But that takes a more creative person than like an average Filipino guy.

But yeah, it's like. It's Peter Keel linked to Tylenol and causing autism. And then it's just voiceover sort of thing. Yeah, like, no, by the way. Yeah, understood. So it's. It's basically voiceover, then pans right into video, or not even pan, but just basically hook, overlay, text, audio.

Yeah.

I mean like Morgan Freeman's voice comes over and just does the hook.

Yeah, I can. I literally just had one sent to me as an example yesterday for my friend, which I can paste in the chat, just so you can see. Exactly. Like, just literally the first two seconds of a Gundry vsl, which is working. Dark spots. That was it. Kiwi.

Could Kiwis be the answer to the dark spots?

Yeah, that's it. So somebody had to make that two second.

And they did it. Oh, they're mirroring. They're mirroring the actual, like, protagonist's voice. Yeah. Itself. It's not like just some random AI hook that sounds robotic over the.

No, it's smart.

Yeah.

It's intelligently done. Yeah. It can't be done by Filipinos. You got to have an actual cool guy who just cranks these out.

Interesting. That would be such a fascinating job these days. I bet they get really good at copywriting if they're doing that all day.

I mean, 100. I mean, the only way you can get good at copywriting is. Is be involved with a media buying team.

Yeah.

How do you fucking know if your works or not? You have no idea.

Like, yeah, you have really slow feedback loops. Like, anyone watching this too? It's like the worst thing I can do is when someone's like, what are. What's something that beats this? And I'm like, give 10 ideas and then I never hear feedback. Which one actually won? To me, I'm like, well, it could have been any of those ten or none.

Like. Yeah, so you gotta be in the. With the number.

Yeah. Like, iterating and launching is my dream. And a platform where there's no latency, where we could just speak hooks into existence. And I'm just like, boom, run that, run that, run that, run that. With that video. That would be like my dream and hopefully the world that we're headed towards.

Hey, you heard about Andromeda?

No.

And there's the new Facebook AI behind the scenes that will be reading.

Oh, I've heard about Andromeda Update. But is that what it's actually going to be doing?

I think they said. But listen, what it does, it's Facebook's AI inside of the ad manager that reads all your data, knows your VSL scripts, knows everything, knows what's working, tells you exactly what to do.

So it's going to scan deep funnel. Then essentially it's just going to fucking.

Help all their advertisers make more money.

Okay, cool. And the good ones who have more variations and more like winners should win more would be my guess.

What it seems to be, it's a big, it seems to be a big creative explosive. You just gotta make big creative powerhouse.

And you gotta make really good stuff interesting. So how. Like that's one example of making really good stuff. What else matters these days? Like I haven't actually bought physically bought media. Actually I did this month. But for the most part I haven't touched the dials in a bit. Let's call it a year. What, what is working this year recently that you haven't done or weren't thinking to do a year ago?

You know what? There are so many media buying things I'm sure that come in all the time that people talk about and, but I don't know about a single one of them.

Cool.

I couldn't care less about a single one of them.

You just chat.

I have to upload a video.

Right.

Like I'll talk to like my business partners and they're very privy with a lot of the media buying updates and they, they're, they're convinced that the difference between a great media buyer and a bad media buyers a world of difference in terms of like they could just churn out so much more profit from an ad. And, and I'm like old school dinosaur where I just like one ad per ad set and launched as many as possible. But honestly I haven't touched the media buying stuff in front.

You're more Chad style.

1000% Chad. Right? Okay. Don't even name anything. Don't even name anything. Not organized.

If you're looking at this, there's a reason why this meme hurts people like, like this because the row has difference often that when you're overthinking this stuff.

So that was it. I just like, I just make more ads. I load it in and you just gotta let the picture, let it rip like it said. Right. Just go launch it at midnight. But this is like stuff when I was personally media buying seven years ago. So it's like dinosaur ideas and I don't think it's the best way to go. But. But what has never ended right. I just studied 2035 of the best VSLs on the planet right now. Broke them all down. Storytelling has never ended Storytelling as continuing to work and will always work till the dawn of time.

What is. Did you. Well, that's enough to break it down into a storytelling framework. Is there like a tip? Is there an actual framework for Hero's Journey or anything else that you found to be common among those?

I mean, typically. So, like, I can show you a handful. I can show you.

Yeah, I would love to learn.

Yeah, I just, I just broke down seven of them and I gave seven little flows. And I think it's pretty cool because it's a really good way to just see exactly the flow of what's working. Because there I had my own. Like when I started out and I had my first big wins, I had my own flow that I found that I loved. But there are continuing to be more flows. But they're all very similar. They're all very, very similar. And I'm pulling it up right about now. It's on slide. Fucking 216.

Geez, man, you're deep in this. I love this.

That's 216 on the. On the thingy.

Oh, man.

Right. So this is a massive campaign. 16 million views in the last two months. Selling air conditioner units. And this is definitely a six figure day campaign. This is a six figure day campaign. This is a big one, right? And if you break it down, it's like, yo, this NASA AC unit will cool a room in 60 in 90 seconds. Meet Thomas and Leo. These guys worked at NASA and they were experts who worked on space missions. But their family was super hot one day in their house and they were pissed off. So they took the secret technology from the shuttle and turned it into an AC unit. And bam. It cooled the room.

It was 90.

Less power.

I love this.

Yes. That's the stories, right? Right. It was all better in all different ways. But the big companies wanted to buy it from them and they were like you because we want to keep it affordable for everybody. So we had. It takes 30 seconds to plug in and no tools. But there's these big heat waves coming. So. So everything's getting hotter and hotter. So we're gonna make 50 off. So buy that now before it sells out. Right?

That's such a great framework.

So yeah, video. It's three minutes. And all the best VSLs literally have something like this. Amazing promise. World class expert who is not really even in the niche. This is something you see a lot is like somebody who is an accidental expert who has mastery in a different space, who Comes in with like, and has some different mastery. Anyway, these guys are experts. Something terrible happens and inspires them to do something about it. They have this weird knowledge which gives them a weird idea. And it works.

Insider knowledge from NASA.

Yep, from NASA. People love the NASA stuff. NASA stuff always works.

It does.

And then this is. This is unique in the way that they really hit on how there's this scam.

So there actually is some sort of product innovation there. Seemingly.

That was it. Right? So that was a big one. Here is a massive one. This was 58 million views in the last seven months. And I just checked it today. It has 67 million views. So they're still ranking now. If you look up farmer's dog, I'm pretty sure these guys. 2.25 billion dollar company.

Holy crap. I don't even know about these guys.

So this is what guys who are $2.5 billion are doing. Let's check it out. Look at this flow. Hey, I'm Brett. And I'm Jonathan. And these are our dogs. We're not actors, we're actually founders. You know, one time my dog had crazy stomach problems. And if you love dogs, you know, this sucks. So I went to the vet and they're like, you should try cooking your dog food. And I cooked my dog food and holy shit, my dog got better. And then I was like, well, what the fuck have I been feeding my dog the whole time? Oh my God. These kibble stuff has got the terrible ingredients. It's all fucked. Everything's extreme heat powder. We would never feed this to humans. How are we feeding it to ourselves? So I called my buddy who's a dog expert. We decided to make real human meat that you can have. And I gave it to my dog, and I gave it to eight dogs and 100 dogs and it blew up. So buy it today.

That's great. That's like P A S problem, agitation, anger solution format.

But this is cool because it's like a fast. You know, my dog was sick, I fix it. And then I was like, what the. Why did that work?

Now I'm angry here.

Now I'm angry. This is some.

Hey, it's pasa.

Goes to an expert. Always gotta find the expert and they make a solution, they test it out and you can buy it today. Right? Classic. Can work in any, any industry. But they shot this one very professionally. Looks very good, done very well.

Their dog who's still alive is there.

Featured dog is still alive.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's a good one. So I mean, I eat VSLs like this for breakfast. Right. Snoring VSLs. This grounding. Well, one pretty short. But it's literally just an AI person standing there talking. It's completely fake, but 30 million views. Massive.

Yeah, the views aren't fake.

News aren't fake. No. They're selling silver lined bed sheets. You can ground yourself with the electricity of the earth while you sleep to balance your energy.

Dang, man. I've always thought that my ions were a little bit, you know, too positive grounding.

So there's a lot. Right. Toe fungus. These guys, they're just flows. You just flow it like this. Right. This one's interesting. He's like, my dad fell down the stairs because the muscles gave out. Hi, I'm a doctor and I know what it's like. Listen, your muscles will go to sleep as you age. But thankfully I found this ingredient that science says can give you more muscle. And then I found this ingredient that says it can make you stronger. And this one that'll help you burn fat. I tried it on myself and it worked great. My phone has not stopped breathing off the hook. Because everyone's transforming by today.

This is great. This is going to be my favorite deck. Is this in the free lead magnet too?

This is the. Yeah, this is my webinar.

Click the link below. Yeah, yeah. We're going to give you guys this opt in. This is sick. Like, this is what it takes to be a great copywriter is understanding the exact frameworks, like breaking into the modular components. Like what you're doing is what I do in my head anytime I watch anything. I'm just like, oh, okay. Before, after claim. Okay.

So do you have anything you're thinking about selling right now?

Yeah.

Give me something.

Yeah, right now we have a 10k. Your group right now. It's just, it's for people like yourself, seven and eight figure entrepreneurs that I just want to learn from myself. Mastermind. 10K. 10K a year.

Okay, and how did this start with you?

How did it start? Yeah, Can I invent a story? It started off by me being angry at my dog. No, it started off by me me building the businesses that we did. We built all these brands. Eventually. All the brands that we launched the last six years did over 100 million in revenue. But I was ascending up the company and I felt like I wasn't learning anymore. So for me it was like a way to share and give back of like all the formulas that I had learned in building this company to over a hundred million a year in revenue with My business partners and could I help teach the next wave of up and coming entrepreneurs so that they in fact could keep me buoyant and I could learn from them? That is as selfish of a motive as I have.

That's all good, bro. So here's a list of. Also, do you have any people in the Mastermind already?

Yes.

No. Does he have a crazy story of a guy in the. Okay, okay. That's. That's how. Sorry. So here's a list of winning. Of 35 winning VSLs. Please review and tell me which three I should rewrite. Then I'm just gonna paste this puppy in sick. Okay. Hey, you do the work. Tell me, what do you think is a good idea?

Let's go, Claude. Let's go.

It likes the farmers.

Farmer's dog.

Right? So farmer's dog. So this is great. We go back, we go back to the farmer's dog and we just think about your story really quick. So here's it. Go. So. Yeah. Hey, I'm Brett. This is.

I'm Nick. Yeah.

What. What was the problem that you had?

I had this. I had this crazy problem. It was really hard to get to nine figures. Yeah.

And then did you go.

You probably experienced the same thing. Getting from 7 to 8, 8 to 9 is really hard.

Did you meet a mentor that. That's. That fixed it for you?

Sort of kind of like weigh it down. Yeah. Like I was in a 250k mastermind with Russell Brunson, Dean Graziosi, both of them. We bought 250k masterminds.

And it worked for you.

Worked for me.

Boom. And it crushed it.

Yep.

So did you fix. Did you think about why the. Did that crush it? Everybody think back on, like, what was the problem?

Yeah, it wasn't.

Why did that work so well?

It wasn't self righteous anger, but like maybe anger at myself. I could, I could, I could infuse that and be like cool. It wasn't so much that like people were holding back the secrets for me. And it was this syndicate. It was a different version of that. It was just like. It was more so the fact that it's possible and it's possible in so many realms. And then like this glass ceiling's been shattered and I was angry at myself for not seeing it sooner, not getting there faster.

But what were you doing before that you realized. Because before they were eating kibble and they realized how stupid that was.

Yeah.

What were you doing before that you realized it was super stupid?

What was the dumbest thing that we were doing in the last six years to get to where we were at.

Because you went to a mastermind and your life took off and then you're like, what the was I doing before.

Starting too many brands, thinking that the Agora model was the way to get. I thought that we needed like 40 brands in order to get to type of revenue that we're going to do. And then each one was going to do, like, I don't know, 2 to 5 million. And it turns out that there's Power Dynamics and that we had just a handful of brands, three figure three brands in particular that went past 10 million a year that were the ones that proposed us up to that level. So the key is, like, you don't have to launch as much. You don't need this huge portfolio of brands. In fact, it divides your focus.

But where did you get that idea.

From Agora, like, originally, like, I looked at what they were able to achieve. They had over a billion in revenue and they had over 40 different brand faces and experts and thought that's what I needed to do too.

So you were like, just applying on your own, just trying to figure it out on your own.

So, yeah, pretty much like, I was just looking at what they were doing from afar. Wasn't in a Mastermind.

Yeah, that's the angle. So you went to a. You're struggling, you go to a mastermind, your life takes off. You're like, holy, what was I doing before? I was just trying to figure it out on my own. That stuff didn't work or whatever. Why are we doing this to ourselves? Why are we keeping ourselves quiet and not hanging out or whatever. So you go to your friend who's also very successful, and you're like, yeah, what if we could put together a mastermind of gangsters? And awesome people start to show up.

So join the 100%. 100%.

That's the flow.

That's the flow, dude. Thank you. Like, that's super helpful.

Isn't that fun?

It's so fun.

Now look at this. You go to the VSL Bible. Here it is. You got the link to the actual video right here inside of here. You can watch it. Here's the original ad. So it's important to see what the ad looks like so you can see how it's done. It's all professional. Nice camera. I'm a founder of the Mastermind. I made a new mastermind for entrepreneurs.

Yeah, I think, like, the big takeaway here is, like, I should just shoot a video for. I've never shot A video for it. Advertising at all.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, exactly. But now you can do it real easy.

I don't even mention it on this podcast. To be honest, Peter's the first one who's gotten me to even mention it. So, yeah, you guys should opt into this free thing and then join my mastermind.

So isn't that like, isn't that relatively easy? You know, so easy, bro.

And like so easy.

And if you use this little. If you, if you follow this process and not that process, this process and you brain dump into here, just like all the things in your mind about what it is, you can make this AI copywriter that, like anytime you want to write copy for this thing or an email for this thing, I'm going.

To use this, paste it in and.

You'Re good to go.

Yeah. This is great. I love this. I love this. How, how did you select the 35? I'm curious now, like back, like you chose 35 and you found them, you sorted them by views, seemingly. How do you even find this list?

There's a cool called Ad Spy, which I like.

Okay.

Ad Spy. I've been using it for a long time. There's a lot of spy tools out there, but most of them don't actually show the social proof on how big it was.

Right.

Everyone's always like, oh, if an ad has been running for a hundred days, it's probably working really well. Well, there's a big difference between somebody spending $5 a day and a hundred thousand dollars a day for a hundred days. I want to know the difference. And so I just, I go around and then like, I just find my favorite ones that are huge. That's what I do.

I find my favorite.

I can't, like, oh, it's the biggest, right? It's my favorite ones that are absolutely massive.

Yeah, I mean like the ones that you're swiping are at such levels significance that it doesn't matter if they're the biggest. Right. If they're different frameworks and they've done over 100 million views, like some of the ones you showed me. Crazy. Even 50 million views, that's insane.

They're big, you know, they're big. You gotta. It's like, hey, check out the snoring one. So like, these are all, they're all just good ideas to rewrite.

Yeah.

Right. This one is a quiz one. And you can just like this could be a book a call thing, you know, book a call with us, see if it makes sense.

Do 100% like this is. I want to do this again. This is fun. In fact. In fact, this is a call for you. Dude, I don't know. Did I mention the free mastermind we're doing? This one's actually free and it's invite only. You can't buy into it. I would love to have you out. It's October 22nd. A bunch of killers are going to be there.

22Nd?

Yeah, October 22nd in Scottsdale. Cole's gonna come over. Dean's gonna stop by a bunch of other people in our industry. Yeah, Be a part of the room. It's right before his boardroom.

He's my. He's one of my students, one of my guys.

Dude, Cole. Cole is a student in the game.

Like, he studies everybody.

He studies everyone, and that's why he's so good.

That could be fun. I just got invited to one in Utah, but cool. I'm possible open to it. I just got back from a week and a half trip in Bali. Two weeks in Bali, so I'm just kind of, like, staying.

Yeah, I saw you. I saw your big traveler, too. And you, like, not trying to travel. I. I was reading your Instagram post earlier today, then I realized it was maybe your girlfriend or fiance's post about, like, the monastery and then going to Ibiz and then finding you. I was like, that's a crazy hero story, too, of just, like, how you guys found each other.

Yep.

That's super cool.

Adventures make stories, right?

Yeah, man. Yeah, adventures. So, like, what? I guess, what adventures? To round this out. This has already been super helpful, actually. Two things. One is, like, what's top of mind for you right now? You just had your offer, so that's, like, the focus right now, but you're also in high demand, and other people want you to write stuff. Like, how do you balance writing your own stuff? That's maybe, like, that's the biggest problem. Maybe you could help me with. I would love to know your perspective of, like, I've built so many brands, like, in the last six years for others, and then now it's like, mine has always been, like, second fiddle. And I think of it, like, if I have time for it, I'll work on it. Like, I'll do this podcast. I'll do it, but it's always second priority to me. Like, how do you balance that well?

So I only did this launch because I had a month of free time while everything was being edited. So I had some extra time and somebody offered me to speak. And then I was like, why don't I just. And I was like, do you want to pitch? I'm like, okay. And then people always bitch at me that my. My old DSL master class isn't updated. So I was like, okay, I'll update it with the newest stuff and then I'm back to work. Right, cool. So outside of that, I never really did. Outside of mind. I was the only time I ever wrote for anybody because.

Okay.

Because I just, like, I'm not trying to make money. I am just going straight towards my goals. So my goals are nine figure exits and stuff like that. So.

So, damn.

Like, I was talking to Dan Henry because he was in Bali with me, and he's like, dude, once you make $50,000 in a day from, like, just talking to a person in like eight hours, it's. You kids can't get over it. And for me, I was like, well, that's irrelevant to me. I don't care.

Yeah, to me, I got over that really fast. I've done that before. I just, like, never hit.

I gotta make massive. I gotta do massive things that I'm stoked about. Right. So.

Okay, cool. That makes me feel better too. Because what makes me even happier is doing what I'm doing and building the brands that we have.

Yeah. To me, like, it's. It's just, it's. I have clarity on where I'm going. And, like, you know, people can bug me all the time. And that's what this is. This course is like, me not having to feel guilty for not having up to date. That helps people. So now I have. That helps people. And I can get back to.

I think I'm gonna be exactly like you too. Because, like, I was like, I'm just gonna make a dream. 100 of 100 people I want to learn from and respect. I don't care about the subscribers. I don't care about anything. I'm just going to do that, pop out and go back. And that gives me even more clarity in knowing that that's the right path. That'll make me happy.

Bam. Yeah. But I think clarity is the most important thing. Clarity is definitely the most important thing. Yeah, like, it's just, you know. Yeah. Because, like, you talked about the Cambridge Analytica stuff and that was. That was. Those are some big moves. But I think it could be even clearer than that in terms of, like, knowing exactly the core outcome that you would get at the end of that. That road.

Yeah, no, dude, I'm. I'm after the same thing as you are.

Really?

Like nine figure Exit doesn't cement like status in the industry. But to me that's like the outcome I want. Like that's a big deal in our space.

Like that's very rare, that's a massive deal. And to me I feel like people need more role models in this space and my mission is to be a world class role model that can like, you know, because the more authority you have, the more people listen to you and the more you impact them on a deep level. Same words. So like that's the biggest lesson I learned in VSLs was the power of authority. Right? Like the second you're the right person, people's ears open, they're closed ears until the right person, they open their ears and they listen. So you have to be the best, most savage version of yourself. And if I want to really help people and give back to people in the biggest way, I have to just dominate my financial goals at the highest level. So it's like it's, it's important for me. It's super important and it's also super fun. So it's this massive win of like I gotta have the time of my life and then I also sell life changing products. And if you sell life changing products, you actually have a moral obligation to make as much money as possible because that means you're helping as many people as possible.

So yeah, I would agree. So you're past your black hat days, needless to say, way past.

I've sprung all the way to the right selling mindvalley stuff, the coolest stuff ever. And now I make sure everything we sell is just has the dopest testimonials on the planet. Like that's my first step. I just look for what's getting the best testimonials I've ever seen in my whole life.

Yeah, you're the first person to actually say that. And like us, like our whole thing is optimized towards student success. Like we track student success as our North Star. North Star here. And that's why we win. It's the hardest way I think to win in this industry. But when you finally crack it for a certain offer and you get some sort of like resonance there, it doesn't matter if it's 30%, 50%, it's offer dependent. But if you can help more people succeed per your offer category than anyone else at that price point, you got something that's like truly, truly defensible in a way that's like hard for someone to stop out entirely. Bam.

You know, and you got a brand that People like and want to buy from you again.

100.

Yeah. Which is what we got to get. That's important. Sweet thing up.

Well, dude, I really enjoyed this conversation. I want to talk more hopefully if.

That was a blast. That was hilarious, dude.

Yeah, it is. Small world. Small, small world. Always in our space. And I have to imagine there's probably a lot of people that like, are. Are you. How. How many people have you probably written VSL for? Either for yourself or for others at this point. If you had to guess how many.

VSLs have it written for myself.

Yeah.

Yeah, Doc. I have a. Even my affiliate VSL files where I just would make VSLs and organize and download the video and save it for which offer it was. Has like 50 offers. So I was like. I ran. Like, I made 50 different. I sold 50 different affiliate offers with VSLs before I even started my first skincare brand.

Yeah, dude, you're already at mastery level.

And then I had five. I did five massive ones at the skincare brand. And then Mindvalley I did 32 massive VSLs within a year. That was just big, so. And everything because there's so much to test, right? There's like this angle and that funnel and this story and like there's all these different frameworks and you never actually know if you want to start with the root mechanism discovery story or the nightmare story. You don't actually know. It's kind of swing at the bat. Like this last one, this last move that I made because I've done a couple VSL where I do multiple. Like when I was at Mindvalley I had like 7 VSLs I wanted to write at the same time for 7 products. So I was like, I'll do this angle and I'll do that, that VSL swipe and I'll swipe this one and this one. But now I just took my favorite VSL formula and I just rewrote that for five different products the same time over and over again. So I just. My favorite VSL and rewrote that one for five different offers. So it's the same formula five times for five offers. Because I don't fucking know. I just. I just wanted to try that. That's my best idea, dude.

I respect that so much. So, yeah, like, guys, like, that's. To be. To be honest, like, I would look at you already as a true master. If someone who's done this so many times is I just search in my whiskey account how many VSLs like we've done in the last six years. You've had more successes than we've had just, like, attempts. Like, I search VSL, I see 156 results which, like, I have some favorites. Like, some of the ones that didn't work and failed for me are some of my favorites, like the 6.6 version of Flip foundation, which is no longer defunct. But I tried so hard on it. So I get the level of craziness you have to be in order to write that much. Dude. Mad respect.

Thanks. There's just. There's just. There's nothing actually else to work on, you know?

But yeah, no, I guess you're right. Like a lot of people, you get distracted from just doing busy work of stuff that doesn't matter as much as, like, the core of what you're trying to do is make big angles, big arguments, new, new ways of thinking about the same problem.

Yeah, I'm blessed right now to have a business partner that just like is has completely locked me into. Like, you do nothing but make ads. Right? Which I was like, thank you, Lord. Right? Like, I tried to help out on some web shit. And he was like, get the fuck out of here. Right? Stop it.

Who's your business partner? I'm going to have Josiah who came in, I'm going to have them talk to. Because Josiah at his best will be like, nick, can I lock you in a room and can you write me 40 ads tonight? And I'm like, yes, that sounds like my dream. But I won't do it otherwise.

I can't tell you. It's a top. It's a top secret guy. Okay, cool who he is.

All right, sweet. We won't say, but he's. He's. He's your better half, so to speak.

He's my father. Yeah, he's your father.

Okay, cool. That makes it even more intriguing. This is like a Star wars types.

It's. It is a Star wars thing. Yeah, well, I got good vibes to it.

All right, cool, man. Well, dude, it's good getting to know you more. We can cut right here, guys. Peter, Kell, thank you, man, for coming on. I appreciate you.

Thank you, Nick.

Yeah.