The Man Behind $100M/yr Info/Coaching Brands (1.5hr Deep Dive)

Yeah.

All right guys, we are live. There we go. We've got Nick Fisher. You probably don't know who he is. The real killers know who you are. 100 but I based on the feedback I got an X a lot of people had just come upon your stuff from some of what you were sharing new. So if you could give a little bit of context who are you where you currently at and then we can dive into some history stuff live.

Yeah man. I am co founder of New Reach Education and a gexa which are fancy ways of saying we do something similar to what hormozi@acquisition.com does or agora does. We have a portfolio company of a bunch of learning brands. Our biggest brand that people know these days is pacemorby@sub2.com but we also have Astro flipping our portfolio. We run the prime mover offer for Russell Brunson and before. Yeah, before all. Yes, there's a few. The entities that you know we've collected over the years is pretty significant. We've been doing this since 2019. I left consulting.com with Sam Ovens. Me and him had moved the company to LA. At the time he was just starting school had just bought school.com and we were in the. We were pre revenue there and basically I was more passionate about what we had been doing@consulting.com but going deeper with the. The kind of the mastermind level individuals kind of like yourself. Like I just like I like going deep on certain brands. Having a info product myself where it was just teaching beginners how to start businesses or anything like that is great. I love working with people who are passionate about that stage. But what I'm passionate about is building companies, building teams, especially growth teams and just repeat refining things day by day. So fast forward 6 years later after that we have over 5 SaaS companies our portfolio over 10 info brands and yeah dude, I'm excited to super transparent. I like to tell everyone how it is. I don't necessarily build in public obviously so the phrase goes. But recently I had the. This. This whole year for me is about specifically now focusing on YouTube organic. So I want to steal all your secrets too for how you grew so fast. It sounds like from what I can see, dude, it's consistent hard work and you just kept putting on videos so there's maybe no shortcut, huh?

Yeah, no, I mean I've heard about you for a long time. I think I heard about you even prior to the consulting setup because you were what officially there CMO or cr.

What was it Yeah, I was director of marketing. There was no CMO though, so it was just, I was employee number one. Yeah.

Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, because I heard about you back then and then. Are you public? Like you just said seven and 10 of these like brands. Are you like public about the portfolio or is it more like Golden Hippo? Like if it comes out, it comes out.

Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, like hippo and acquisition.com, they're a little, they're not front facing with the portfolio. I like to be because at the end of the day it's a filter for, it's a filter for would I like feel good about, you know, working with this person. If I can't be proud of them publicly as a badge, then to me it's not. That means I'm compromising some of my ethics or values or something there. So not saying that everyone else is, but.

Those two giant companies are, but we might.

Exactly. For me, there's more, there's more opportunity in actually letting people know. If you go to newreacheducation.com, you see, you see a good chunk of them all. We don't always stay up to date, but yeah, I'm happy to talk about any and all those brands I mentioned and the ones that failed too. There's like another 10 to 15 that are no longer working. So we have about, over time, a 50% hit rate on track record of starting this from scratch. Will this actually work?

Yes. You said SaaS. I mean, is there a specific buy box or whatever you want to call it that works at this point?

Yeah, we're really good at growing SaaS brands to like over a million dollars in ARR and not much after that. So SaaS typically comes about not from us buying or acquiring tools, although we're certainly open to that in the future, but rather partnering with someone who can be the technical founder and then we provide the distribution from our info businesses. So Almost all the SaaS, except for one, was launched or was kind of initially started or got to tipping point because of a painful customer problem that we couldn't solve with just information alone.

Yeah, interesting. So almost always they're on the back or bolted in somehow to the info coaching. What do you call it? You call it education, right? You call them education businesses.

Yeah, dude, I, I, I saw a godsy video last night where he was like, I don't know how I got into this coaching, elearning, consulting, info space, Internet marketing thing. That's basically it, right? It's, it's all Those terms. Yeah. Like elearning sounds like people are gonna just. That's gonna be a millennial thing. If we say elearning, people will be like, what do you mean elearning? Is it. Everything's in the cloud, everything's learning. Yeah. Right. So learning businesses, businesses where I can solve educational awareness problems is the common theme. Yeah, yeah.

It's interesting. I mean, I like info coaching and it's directly what we sell.

Right.

It's like a lot of people will sell info and then go into like the info coaching hybrid, that classic model with group coaching on top of like layered plus community. It's like they're very.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, yeah. When you get it done for you and agency and all that, you kind of hit exit velocity or physical products. But I want to dive deep. You invited me. So I. From somebody in your group, in your world, because then you have this whole Ajaxa side. So I want to understand. So what is that?

Right?

How do you pronounce that?

Yeah. So, dude. Yeah. The most common question, I say it's a GEXA to me, but a GEXA is the intelligence arm or the go to market arm of New Reach Education. And it is formally. Now, for all of that, we've kind of moved into a point where I'm really passionate about just working with experts. And there's a lot of people like yourself and like Chris Foss's team and Cody Sanchez last year, a lot of people that I would love to work with, but it's just the equity play is not there. Either they, you know, the business valuation just doesn't make sense to even vest someone in and. Or they don't want to. Right. They don't know me. So it allows me a vehicle to kind of curate learning for myself. Like, I love being around, I love being in masterminds, but when you start to outgrow them, and usually you do at some point, not always, but it's hard to make a collective group grow together in a certain direction. So you lose people both up and down. And for me, this whole year is about. Okay, figure out what one channel you want to anchor on. On Social. Recently we decided that was YouTube organic grow personal brand there. For me, that allows me to curate more the things that you just posted about. I care about people watching this who want to work for New Reach in our brands because every brand that we start, we dilute talent. It's like I can't just pull the Sub two sales team and start this brand without Sub two collapsing. Right. And it's easy in theory to say hey go and hire five more sales reps blind as like a recruiter to start this new brand. But that has a hard chance of rejection too. So to me we want to build the best talent bench in the world. If I had to articulate one internal vision for GEXA and then the external vision for me is to create a community and mastermind where we eventually codified much like how Agora did in this book 600 pages of just internal evergreen sops of what works in this space and become the definitive kind of new document for. For what works. So that's. That's the ambition.

Interesting. Yeah. So there is a play to make it the info coaching, mastermind education, whatever you want to call the world.

Yeah. And if anyone's watching this and you guys and you guys have a certain project that's usually what people come to us for these days is you've noticed that group that you're. That you came into it's community led growth is the focus though because that's what we're becoming known for at sub 2. A lot of marketers and salespeople are really really good at the front end tactics and I'd like to think that we pretty much have pioneered emotion where it starts in community and community being in the actual confines of your Facebook group, school group, WAP group whatever it is. And how do you use that inform ascension sales marketing to do an even better job. So that's that community curation is what we've been doing for seventh level Cody, Chris Voss and a few other people who you'd be surprised dude. Like I know you have student portals and like them all in one spot but a lot of people don't. And for some bigger people I found I was like it's crazy that six years after I started teaching this at consulting.com with Sam that the idea should be nested community and lms. And really in the future I think it's going to be even more than that. It's just the whole experience itself will be nested somewhere.

Yeah. I think it's interesting getting on those calls with you guys and learning about. I didn't know a lot of that stuff. I don't have a ton of context of a lot of people in the space before I started to do this. And then I connect to the people and it's been such a learning thing for me too which has been a huge pro just being able to talk to other like high level guys and people like we. I had Brooke reach out When I had like 200 subscribers. So I was like 15 days into making videos. Brooke hitting reached out. They were doing like 3 million a month in like I just started to get these like 3 million a month, 2 million a month. 500k5 like all reaching out, sharing looms, all their dashboards, all their numbers, their funnel flows. And I was like. And like asking me questions where I could maybe give some value. And then I was also learning a ton. So like getting those people in the room.

Yeah, yeah.

So getting those people in the room is super nice. And so like right now and tell me where you think or if you see something else. But it's like Cole has kind of the OG well truly the OG was ovens with him. Like having consulting and having Quantum. We can skip forward to now. Iman has consulting and he has Quantum.

Yeah.

Like I paid for that before it was that I paid for it when it was eight figure. Eight fl. Eight figure license. It was like all personal brand focused and I was. That was my kick in the ass to make videos. I was just like, oh yeah, I need to lean in this personal brand way. Iman crushes it with talent and this and this and this. Like because of that brand.

Yep.

So I paid for that. They teach you a million and one things and all this stuff in the course and access to his whole team, whatever. And in the end I just like made loom videos. But like it was my kick in the ass to actually make videos and like I could get questions answered about growth. So that now is though consolidate consulting dot com. Quantum is what they. So it's now that. So there's there. Yeah, he reestablished Quantum.

That's sick.

Then you've got Cole who has eight figure license and then you. Which is like kind of the other OG or longer term. And then you've got Jeremy Haynes and his is like paid million dollar months like call funnels, high ticket very that world. Like those are the three right now that exist.

I would agree.

You having one that you built that would be like creator led, community side ascension, LTV consumption. Like all those things is a whole nother bucket.

Yep. Dude. And that's. And that's the bucket that I think I own and I own pretty well. And when it was me and Sam and Quantum, you kind of got that ability. Because I could speak to all the team side which was fun if Sam wanted to deflect to me. And then central methodology and everything including one call close and his inbound system. That's all him really. He taught me that in my eyes at the time. So I came from a job where I was doing set close. But that is the type of community I want to curate. And you're that. That audience, the old consulting audience. Yeah. Is split between those three. It all just kind of separated out and people chose based off of the stage that they were in. But dude, what I would really love is basically people who have the ambition to build, to exit. Either they want to go the Brunson way and they're going to build kind of SaaS and tack it on as an ascension vehicle or a retention of revenue vehicle, just like what we did. Or if they're interested in doing something like what Cardone did, which is gradually broaden until you become started as used car sales trainer or used car salesman. Then you start used cars trainer, then sales trainer, then real estate investor, then real estate coach and online education, then fund. Right. So with our real estate brands we're following that where the portfolio and the deal flow, collaboration just keeps. You keep ascending and you keep solving painful problems for people until you have a fundamental right, until you have capital leverage. So if anyone has the ambitions to do that, whether they're at eight or seven figures and just like growth and teams, that's who I want in this, in this crowd. Yeah.

That's interesting. Yeah. Because it's like I can only speak, I can't speak on Kohl's right now in that world because I haven't been part of it. Other than that it's like long standing. It was a lot of the guys who ascended through there that were his customers. Right. And like are like core owners. Right. Core offer owners that then really turned like businesses. Jeremy's is like, you know, it's the growth operators. It's like I just spoke at that one in Miami last like whatever the last month and those guys are hilarious. Like it's paid. Paid, paid. Like hammer it like go, go in this way. And then Iman's opposite almost of what you just said about like build it to exit and do all this stuff and like crazy like his is self liquidating events. I mean they did 10 mil in profit on that event.

Like.

Yeah, in like a five day liquidating.

That's.

That's I would say no because it was still a portion of it was paid. Then he's got the, you know, reverse. Reverse acquisition because he does the organic stuff that gets paid on YouTube to acquire.

Yeah.

So it's like he has like all these things that are like whatever it is, 70% or 80% margin with zero interest in selling worldwide talent, all that. So it's like these vastness on these buckets are like cool and no one is doing what you're talking about. So 100%. I think you should do the community led version of it.

Yeah, I'll show you. This is I think let me just make sure there's not anything sensitive on here. This might give everyone a little bit of a better idea that on. On a. This was 2022. This was our best year as far as profit goes. But you have all these brands so we're really good at just getting brands to eight figures and profitable. So I like kind of like you said, it's a hybrid of all of them. I don't want to self liquidate. I still want to be zero as positive. And we start with paid. So I hammer people on the front end too. But over time what we attempt to do is that this like this year and the students that we had cash basis didn't look quite as good. But you can see like some fail, some don't. And from there you have customers and you're zero as positive on the front end. I never really was great at the quick ascension or the you know, the pressured ascension to the mastermind or you don't have everything that you have. So we did a little bit of one off masterminds but primarily we asked just last year for the first time we did a live event. That's the one that did really well over 10 million top line. 12 million top line I think. And then this year it was 17 because of the renewals. So we're finally now just ascending. We have a really, really slow LTV for.

Yeah, still, I mean those numbers are wild. I didn't realize, I didn't realize that that margin was that high on those. And it's because of that high tech and because of the ascension, because of the back end. Right. Like once you acquire them. LTV's gotta be crazy.

LTV is going to be crazy. So it's, it's a secret. You have to focus on community in order to wait that long to pull your reciprocity that out. Otherwise people leave. So we, we have really, really good engagement retention. We have really good student leader retention. We have close to 30 student leaders in the sub 2 community who lead different metros and meetups geographically. So that has to happen in order for you to kind of mobilize them into an event nowadays I'd be like shoot, we should have started with the event and built into it every year. Instead of just jumping right to a 2000 person event and then to a 3000 person event and then this next year will be like 3,500 maybe. So we're running out of venues, but it was so electric. I hope that you get to go. I'm going to send you the dates so you can.

Yeah, I was going to say.

Yeah.

Luke had said something about you guys having that last one.

It's fun because now we're doing enough money where I can book keynote speakers. So the goal, we'll see if it happens in the future for publishing. We're just going to try to bring people into our ecosystem as a speaker, pay them, get around them, show them that the community that shows up for our events is different and then maybe see if there's work to be done there. Yeah.

Interesting. So who is like you said, ICP is somebody who can have that massive backend that you see as like a true potential is like Dream State icp.

Insane Clown Posse or Ideal customer profile.

Ideal. Yeah, dude, my dad. Long story, but yeah, my dad did landscaping for those guys and like put in waterfalls and whatever. Whoa.

No way. Where are you guys from? Detroit. You're a Detroit based entrepreneur? Yeah. Do you still claim Detroit?

I never claimed it. I never claimed it. Born and raised and then I bounced like crazy. I'm going out to. I think I'm Scottsdale though. Like a month or two months.

Yeah. Dude, hit. Hit me up. We'll have a good time. I'll sell you on moving here. Yeah, but what were you asking me again? Sorry.

Oh, so just like you said, you had said that you like dream state of a new partnership or a new client to add to that. That's in the info coaching education. What? Not the SaaS but info coaching side is someone truly that what just has that massive potential for backend that can continue to grow in the direction where ascension is a fund or whatever.

Yeah. So my, my what what I want, what we've just realized at this point is we want people that have good retention of attention. I talked about it on one of our Q and A calls is like I really think that competing for attention is. Is going to be the red sea in the future of just like hook based virality. You can win at it but it's a bloodbath and it's like being a low cost leader. So competing for attention where I would rather look through someone who has let's just call it a million YouTube subscribers but they have average watch time of over 50% of each video Some people have it even higher. I've noticed on metrics. Like I'm just now starting to get into that, doing it for myself. So I and people who gravitate towards long form video and let's call it big gross, average watch times and hold retention. I've noticed there's correlation between that and being able to do the same thing on a webinar. Like pace can hold someone after the webinar starts for three, four hours before he gets to a CTA with very little drop off. So I'm looking for someone who can do that more naturally. I've noticed with some people that have a lot of clout are following on Instagram, they can often have not only certain egos at certain follower levels and levels of fame, but gatekeepers, people that want to protect them. A bunch of other complex brand deals that you have to navigate. You know, NDAs, this, that and the other. There's just a lot of stuff that is super complex. So someone like a David Goggins isn't a perfect fit. But he anchored our event this year and was my like quote unquote hook to the end who was on day three. Right. And just kept people in the room the whole time and it was electric. Like that guy, he might not have a YouTube channel, but his retention of attention when I had seen him speak at other events is so good. Everyone is quiet, locked in focus. He has just such command of the room that that's who I wanted. Right. And we'll see if it ends up working out with him long term. He's pretty adamant about, you know, certain things. So we don't, we don't push. But it got us exposure to him for the first time and got to see like, is this someone we want to work with?

Yeah. No, it's amazing. Interesting. So the trying to think how so once you take a brand like that to that size. Because so zooming out, there are other people in the space that say similar things, what you're saying. So I had other guys on here like Ahmed, who specifically only works with traders and he calls them black swans. So he's like, I only work with people who are black swans. And which means they actually have something that is what you're saying. Like they stand out amongst the vastness of these traders that are just like fly by night. So they have huge organic presence or they have really valuable. They have deep organic presence. And yeah. So he'll do only people who do that. He'll help them on the organic side a little bit and then he'll build out all of the offer stack, all the fulfillment, all the sales flow, all of that and take X percentage generally speaking rev share. They're crazy profit machines. And also I love the funny part about trading how like the offer stack is flipped where it's like do it yourself. Yeah, do yourself is on the back and like done for you is like right on the front. It's like I saw the signals so they rush with that kind of stuff and big and some of them have huge back ends. Like huge huge back ends where they get into like funded models and this and that and all this other stuff which super familiar on but like that doesn't fit what you're. What you're talking about though.

Right. Trading style trading like we've never. We actually I take it back. We failed on a trading offer. There's a lot of variables for us and figuring it out. Like you said the. The model is flipped. The ascension model. So typically like newsletter funnels that start out there or with stock tips or whatever it is that is just not our bread and butter. We attach newsletter is usually P3, maybe P4 for anything that we do. Like we're very much. Did you see the marketing plan? This pretty much gives my whole model away of just exactly what we do every single time. The last time that I built one of these to this level was for astro flipping the one I have on here on my hat. Our first brand and this was three years in what it looked like and basically I'll skip all this. We have a ton of you know this is supposed to onboard someone to the brand. But as far as the acquisition channel mix and how we build it out, here's the typical funnel structure. Start with VSL call funnel and these metrics are pretty much the same even a few years later for us as far as the steps between and then from there lead magnet funnel. DM lead magnet funnel SDR motion and then P3 mastermind ascension or software Ascension. Right. We almost do that every single time. I don't know what this funnel is. Another lead magnet. Yeah. So that's pretty much it. We're just really, really good in going deep on that. And there's a lot that we do under the surface that makes this funnel to me super sexy even though people hate it. Five step VSL Call funnel and then as far as the paid traffic mix and whatnot, it usually looks something akin to this. I start on paid social discovery feeds and then graduate into adding search display organic. We almost never started. We never started any of Our brands with organic, actually. So it's a blessing. When I see someone like when I worked with Cody Sanchez last year and I saw that she had done 200 external podcasts, I was like, holy crap, what a grind that was. And then she put on paid ads later. That is a smart way to go about it. It's a lot less. There's more risk in starting with paid. But in the case of the growth operator model, and I fancy myself something akin to that, just knowing the whole gamut of what should happen in sales, community marketing and this type of business. I like to start with paid from day one and use a VSL call funnel. It's as simple as that for me.

Yeah. And you like opt in pages.

Yeah, dude.

Jeremy Haynes. I don't know if you follow any of this stuff. You use opt in funnels. You hate money.

Jeremy, if you get this, you need to come on here so we can debate ungated versus gated VSL call funnel.

Their whole thing is like, they sell higher ticket. They go a lot of the time it's more sophisticated or like a higher. It's more sophisticated, generally speaking. So you don't need necessarily as much consumption. And they put a lot of consumption on the back. Like forced consumption, forced information, post booking. So this whole thing, I mean, they run everything. And he'll be the first one to tell you. Like, we were at his thing. He's like, ryan. He always says your name. He's like. He's like, nick. I gotta tell Nick. You gotta. He's like, so funny. He's so, like, pure.

But he's like, yeah.

He's like. He's like, all I gotta say. All I gotta say.

Yeah.

Is if you. I like to be proven wrong. I like to be proven wrong. You say run everything this way, I run everything this way. Yours works. I'll move everything. Like I don't care, you know, I mean, he's like, I'll dupe something out 14 times instead of having one of them that's a winner, I'll keep all of them. You know, I mean, like, he's like, I'll just do any of this. But he runs that DTA Classic, that headline VSL app on page. Sometimes testimonial, sometimes he dupes it. One is testimonial under, like set up under one isn't a lot of the time. They'll combine a job form with like a calendly or something in one. So it's a full throughput. So you get an app and a booking same time. You're never going to have a drop off. So no two step which again you and I are like oh we're going to segment them out and there's going to be buckets between, there's going to be setters and context flows and like all this stuff like that's what I do. His is like nah, straight line. But then that thank you page is so core and the automations are so core. They call them back end sales systems is what he like tokened it but it is like info content, info content. He's got the Jeremy Hammer them strategy which is them. Yeah, basically anyone who hits that booking window you're hitting them with long form, short form.

We agree on that. Yeah, we're choke them out. Choke the feet out.

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, when we do that as well. And then same thing, he's got like I forgot the night the name of the email sequence. But same thing with emails, it's like every four to eight hours he's sending more emails and it works like the example he gave on one of his videos was like someone hit me with an ad that was about like incorporating in Dubai or something and not paying taxes us something along those lines.

Right.

And he's like I went into it and all I had, I had 92 questions and I had to book this call like seven days out instead of within 48 hours and all I had was all these questions and I couldn't find anything. I'm doing my own research, I'm finding other people's products, I'm doing this and all I wanted was them to like just send me mass amount of things so I could consume, be educated so like I would pull trigger in two seconds because the offer was what I wanted, had the results I wanted but because I didn't have the information by the time I got on the call it's truly like an information gather call, not a discovery and offer crack then.

Becomes a 2, 3 call close which is annoying. Yeah, no I agree. You have to give them their contact somewhere. I, I think what I'm most excited about is what seventh level actually did this on their own. So I told them that you guys are probably the only ones who can. They brought their content and their challenges and their LMS and their community all into one roof and they can actually determine now an average content time consumed before purchase which are like watch time.

Consumed which from a low ticket or community to a high ticket.

Correct. Because that's really, really hard to do if you're running your challenges on YouTube and all of your. All of your, like, organic or your view rates and your watch times are anonymized and you're just losing. So you end up making these rules that I don't like, which is like, it takes seven or eight touch points in order for someone to, you know, buy which is. Which is better heuristic than nothing that informs your retargeting. But it's like, what, like, type of consumption matters. And yeah, basically I was like, this makes me happy. Because I always knew it was probably. It's more about minutes of consumption or hours of consumption before an offer is likely to close than it is about, you know, any indiscriminate touch point.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And they moved to what, disco or Circle or something?

They moved to disco and disco. Sick. I wish our brands were on disco.

Yeah. I don't know. Our Demo is the 4060s. We keep our community on Facebook.

Yeah. Target market dictates where you should put them. Like I was telling you, I'm scared to put some of our people on Discord. And we're doing that right now for some of our target market. So, yeah, wherever it is, the LMS isn't the make or break reason why someone is successful initially, but it can be long term in order to start getting the refinements that you want. So, yeah, keep it in Facebook groups so long as the most important thing is that you actually just do the fundamental things of calling them touch points. Welcome calls.

Yeah. Which we have done actually, notably not to hog this on our stuff, but we've notably not done a great job of that. Ours has always been like, service the contract, which is a year and service it so well. Client WINS channel fires off and then just hamster wheel of acquisition. It's never been like year two, three or any other offerings or any other. Anything. Like, it's literally always been just the front. And you can see that in the margin. Especially last year when we tripled, you know, hit 30 and all this. But margin took this dive and like, we're still good by all means. Like, you know, we did our thing, not the numbers you showed. We weren't in the 60s. I can tell you that Acquisition exploded or like in a bad way, like broken everything.

Right.

We moved everyone W2. We went that whole gambit and now is a big focus on that. So we're building out other offers. We have like actual touch points. We have basically everybody who was already within the six months got to get the new experience of like framing the fulfillment in a way that this is a continuation, this is a forever, this is a multi year thing. Not just oh hey, we're going to get you the result in this amount of time and then you're good. So yeah, and we've had a massive uptick of that. We just did a renewal event, like a revenue generating event like Iman calls them, but internal. I just had a big swing at that. So I. Everything you're saying is like something that we're focused on. And then I just was on with Jason Fladlin and I think I said that last name right. But he was talking about how they launched. We did no webinars. He was talking about webinar testing and launches to your customer base. And like as simple as that sounds, that was not something was even on my radar. So we're like oh duh. We're about to launch this other cool amazing thing. Like we're gonna run a webinar funnel to our own and we have this other announcements with like community and brand faces. Like we're gonna roll all this into one and be able to announce it ideally through webinar in an actual pitch with an actual offer and all this stuff like to community and we've never done something like that.

Dude, that's crazy. That's the funnel I didn't mention cause it to me it's just so obvious with our space and also one off webinars anytime we need them and you use them for test offers or ascension. But dude, I'm glad talking to Flatline. He's the absolute goat. I interviewed him last week too, so that's funny. Serendipity.

Yeah, it was literally the same day. It was like within an hour of each other. He's like I've got to pop Knicks.

Yeah. He's doing the thing with Onyk and I'm just always so impressed when I see him sell. I've seen him sell in person from stage. I've seen him sell on Webby and that episode I think you'll probably really, really enjoy. Uh because I. I nerd out with VSLs and webbies and just the stuff that I imagine I asked him hasn't been asked before. So it was cool to see that and I hope to get to work with him in the future on. On what? Certainly. Anyone listening to this, you just add. You add like the most common one is the Q and A call webinar. I always call it of just take your. Take your follow up pipeline of anyone who didn't buy either abandoned carts on your low ticket or challenge people or people that didn't book on sales and then just do a weekly, bi weekly or monthly wrap up Q and A webinar where people on the fence, the personal brand themselves or their lead trainer can just push them through. So that is. Yeah, that's that format. You don't have to duck it out like flatline and be a genius and have all these slides. That's a great entry point to get yourself used to doing it. And the format is literally just Q and A. Hey, Q and A. And then if something is covered in your program then you say that's a great question. I cover that in depth in my program. Here's a link to book a call and then you move on to the next question. Just keep doing that. That's a brain dead formula where you don't have to just be Jason flatline.

Yeah. Do you guys do a lot of. How do you deal with availability when you do big pushes like that?

Yeah, I asked Dean question when I was over last week. You see they were doing a. A 15,000 person event. Ascension event. Yeah.

And it's all. And it's book a call, right. It's not direct to car.

No, it's. It's both. They do what we do now at our size. At a certain size you have to split CTA unfortunately you go D2C first and then trial closes, wrap closes, open up the push to phones for anyone else. And we offered people do it different ways. But generally speaking we offer if it's a mid ticket price point of say 3 to 12,000. Most people offer payment plan on that D2C2. Yep.

And then because it has financing, you're all good.

Yeah. So like the first time we did it. I'll show you those metrics. This is. We did that for the first time last year when we got to the point where I think we had over a thousand registrants where you're like okay, we will flood our sales floor at a certain point. We don't want anyone. I think like you guys are used 48 hour booking window or 72. 48. 48. We're 72. But yeah, those are the two. I think that you can argue that it should be. There's nothing over 72 that makes sense that I've seen ever. But yeah, after you flood that window, you don't want to continue to open up more slots or right size your team every month. Unless you like layoffs. And that's your standing.

Yeah, I don't think that's anything.

Yeah, I Do something. I do some of this space. I'm not going to call them out on this by name, but in a monthly layoff was like scheduled on their calendar in tandem with their all hands meeting. They would just do the all hands and then announce layoffs at the end. What was that?

There's that massive company that always cut bottom 10 or bottom 30% or whatever. Yeah.

I was like, I'm sure it's like considerably less. It's more funny in my head to think of that weird format. And here guys, here's who's safe this month.

Bottom performers, please leave the room. You're officially.

Huh. Yep. So yeah, there's that. So I'll, I'll pull it up later. But basically what we found is if you, if you offer too good of a payment plan, you end up having too much D2C and you lose out on AOV. Right. By not pushing to the floor. But if you don't, then it's still even with a split CTA and just a 1 pay to cart, then it's too hard to close with just even a two, three hour webinar and then pleds your sales floor. So it's a really delicate game of how many registrants do I have? How can I fill the sales floor without, you know, breaking D2C or vice versa.

Yeah. What software stack are you running now with webinars already?

It is. I was just looking at that.

I was talking. Yeah. I mean someone was like, oh, we're selling webinar Jam. And I was laughing a bit. And then there's that new. I'm forgetting it's like a something. But there's a Zoom like dupe version that guys were talking about at Onyx.

They were at Onyx event Zoom dupe version.

Yeah, it's like a.

Well, I'm going to have to write that down. We're using Zoom's webinar Enterprise. I plan, I believe. Yes. In addition to. If we have. We've used Webinar Jam every webinar stack before. That has some downsides for different reasons. My favorite is Zoom with a bunch of zaps integrated or Zoom apps. So it fixes a lot of the problems and some of the customizations that like the level@mastermind.com is at with Dean and Tony, they have breakout rooms for sales reps to kind of sit in there and then the ability to. But they're more customized than even Zoom's native breakout features. So like routings, a bunch of backend analytics. We just have what I would say are kind of the. The basic functionality in tandem with zoom and then it just integrates with all our systems. But it's is like tech heavy as you know I am for webinars we keep it pretty. Pretty simple.

Yeah yeah. And then most of them are live.

Yeah, almost all of them are live. We do run a few ever webinars too but you have to think like if you go live someone like pace isn't really thinking of how can I make this evergreen. So there's usually a lot of post processing like cuts that end up ruining the conversion of the ever webinar. Like when me and Sam recorded the auto webby that that became sort of famous in our space. It's been written about. If you guys. If you guys check out auto webinar it's. It's the most written about funnel I've ever been a part of. But we went the Auto 2K. Yeah. The Auto 2KA right? Uh huh. Yep. And I have a collection of 2ka. If you guys just google 2ka autowebinar funnel you'll find it. Some people have done a good job of trying to figure out all the nuances of it but it's still probably about 50% of what made the thing work. I have like analysis on the chat lines and predictability to purchase based off of certain word usage at certain times. Yeah, yeah. It's. It's. It's insane. So I would say unless you want to really, really put in an insane amount of work. I was looking at this every day optimizing for four months straight. Me and Sam spent 30 days just thinking about the slide deck and recording like it wasn't first take. He would just go off on his own after we'd figured it out. An attempt to just get the perfect auto webinar take. It's a lot of work to get it to going. It's like very much not worth it. I think generally speaking. Yeah, yeah.

But here's that I'm gonna. I don't know if I. Yeah this.

We looked at so much and this is what happens when you only do something for a long amount of time versus suspicions regarding two in the chat. Number of questions There was so much that went into. Here's the sentiment around where they likely to buy a bunch of other crazy stuff.

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah yeah. Here's that. So it's called a event. Is that software? I just asked someone. So this is one that I've heard. I've heard this crushes it makes it look Live. So like it's really built for a lot of evergreen stuff. I to my understanding. But people are like really doing size with this and it looks like a zoom. So it doesn't look like one of these webinar jam. Like it doesn't look like what people expect of a webinar. So maybe better for the Internet marketing land of customers because they think it's more right. Like if you're bsc, people don't still know what webinar jam is. But like yeah, I think. Oh yeah. It says on here mastermind.com master those grant card. Okay.

So they're using it.

It's unlike all their own servers. Is all their own craziness. So yeah, we got this pulled up and. But how did you. Yeah, right. How did you. And then we're going to get to questions right after this. But how did you get to know Pace? Like how did that deal come to be? Because that's the one of if not the biggest right of your setups.

That is. That's the biggest. It used to be you probably saw in 2022. That was the first year sub 2 went past Astro and credit stacking at the time who were kind of the first. First wave those three. But now it's. It dwarfs anything else by the tune of 20, 30 million in overall sales volume. It's pretty significant. So the first day I met Pace, I always like to tell people I didn't really know other than he was Jamil's friend who was Josiah's partner in Astro flipping. And I was like, cool. I love taking discovery meetings. I do my typical thing. My process is usually put me in a room with someone three to four hours and I'll ask discovery questions until I have a lean, lean canvas of the offer. And what it looks like is typically like who is this for? What are their problems? What solutions do you provide? And then from there I take try to combine all those into an offer. Promise of hey, this offer helps you make money faster in real estate than any other offer. And it has some sort of unique differentiator in an ideal world or unique mechanism to attach why it's the fastest methodology. It's faster. So it's. Yeah, it's a unique methodology with a proprietary, let's call it proprietary or moded sort of mechanism. That's like what I'm trying to get to. And then the most important thing though is not that most people think the offer is like you get it and it's different. And I went through my offer checklist and man, yeah. The safest method to make six figures of anyone. The most predictable method to make six figures. I got the fastest, I got the slowest, I got the most fun, whatever the qualifier is. But the most important thing is what I call the belief reframe matrix that I'm trying to pull out. So normally, why do three to four hours is I'm trying to take and find contrarian opinions that they have because that's actually what sells more so than anything. If I'm like, yeah, so like everyone says to put your money in a Roth IRA and they go, oh, that would be the dumbest idea you could ever do. Right. I'm looking for that. And then what to do instead. So once I find a few of those, then I know I'm done. And usually three or four are enough to make those. The points are a linear, you know, Russell Brunson style VSL or Webby. You break, you know, break belief patterns, break three belief patterns, make it a logical linear flow to an offer that's more differentiated in some way. You end up liking that person they buy. But with pace, that wasn't happening very well. So with pace, I was having a hard time. When I was asking him questions. He's like, yeah, I do creative financing. I do, like these things called sub 2 deals. I do these lease option deals. I do seller finance. I do sub rap. I do subtail. There's eight different ways to acquire properties. There's 20 different ways I dispo. I go, okay, so you have. You're basically like an M and a like customized approach to. To buying these houses. And I was like, there's no methodology here. Like, you're just kind of smart. You're just smart. You've learned a lot. And I was like, here's what I told him. I was like, astro flipping when I do my forfeits test, which is, have I worked with the target market? Check. Have I done this type of product before? Check. High ticket info product? Yeah. Have I worked with a channel of acquisition I plan to launch with? Yes, I'm going to launch with Facebook ads. Have I done this funnel model before, a revenue model before? Yes. It's always a VSL call funnel. So I aim for three or four of the variables should be constants instead. And if I do that, usually it launches. Well, if I don't, it ends up being bad. Like when we launched that trading program, I was 0 for 4. I ignored all four fits because we had a string of wins. I was like, maybe I can just do anything.

Maybe I can do any.

I'm a business savant. Yeah. So turns out, no, because we were left questioning, like, do we change the. Is it the guru? Is it the product? Is it the price point? Is it the target market we chose? Or like, maybe we shouldn't have launched on a channel that we didn't understand. Maybe we shouldn't have launched with a new funnel low ticket challenge model. And then all of us were like, okay, we should just quit because we don't even know what we don't know. So with Pace going back to it, he ended up not getting those fits. Two of the four, I would say maybe he had. And I was like, I don't think it's going to work. And he said just maybe, maybe like halfway into it, he was just getting frustrated of, like me maybe not getting it. He's like, do you just want me to show you how I do this? And then he pulled his phone out cold, call the lead. And I watched him get to a deal under contract in 20 minutes time, which is literally to this day what he's doing about 50ft away with Jameel. They bring people in here and demonstrate competence and demonstrate the methodology. And then I had the aha moment. Then I was like, this guy's special. I still haven't seen anyone do that to this day. He said, well, it would have looked really dumb in front of me and everyone else if he just, he's like, see, that's what I do. And it just didn't work. So it spoke to what I would say, or most people would say is the most correlative and predictable gene that an entrepreneur could have, which is like insane amount of self belief. Right. So much like or quote unquote delusion, but let's call it self belief. And to me, conviction. Self belief. If you have those, usually it's just a matter of time, not when or not if it'll work. But yeah, that's Pace in a nutshell. He's. And then he had proceeded to just like actually, actually treat this seriously, like kind of how me and Josiah and the rest of us did. So it's been a great relationship and I'm really proud and happy to have worked with those, especially four, for as long as I have. Especially. They were the first two brands they continue to crush. And it's beating this narrative in the info space. You got to switch offers every two years.

Yeah, yeah. 100% offer into a business.

Right?

That's my, like one of my least favorite things. Like what offer are you on? Right now, like, what offer are you pumping? It's like, no, no, no, no. This, like, can go from an offer to an actual business.

Doesn't have to be hilarious. You're right. That does happen in our industry too. It's not like, what are you focused on? It's like, what have you launched recently?

Yeah, yeah. What offer did you guys launch? What offer are you running right now? It's very common sometimes. Yeah, true. All right, we've got some good questions. Let's run some of these. And then I have some as well. But I know a big methodology of theirs is extensive data and research. How do they balance what's working now versus trying to innov concepts, personal expertise, team expertise. So basically, what's that balance between? You know that your VSL opt in funnel works, but you do want to test and lean into low ticket challenge funnel or something, right?

Yep, yep. What was. What was the actual question there?

I know a big methodology of theirs is extensive data and research. How do they balance the what's working right now versus innovation? Timeless concepts and personal expertise. And your team's expertise.

Got it. So very simply, all of our competitive research gives me a range to play within. So give you an example. If we want to get into bookkeeping, which we did a few years ago, what I would do is I would take a list of 20,000 courses that we have indexed and updates every month. As far as their traffic and revenue approximations, I would pull that category and look at anyone making what I thought was making and let's call it eight figures or 10 million and above. And I would look at the lowest price point thing that they sold and the highest price point thing they sold. And I would say, this is my acceptable range. Does something that I'm good at exist within this range? And usually the answer is yes if you have a niche that has any sort of call funnel, and the answer is no if it ends up being cool. If I see a whole category and nothing. All the market leaders are selling something that is less than $100 and there's no ascension to anything close to 5,000, which is at least the old Agora model. Like their ascension was up to 2,000. I'm like, okay, chances of me learning a whole new model, I would try, like the actual guidance here is be a model specialist. Find a. You can add another channel to your belt. Like, I'm good at multiple channels now over the course of my career, but originally when I was struggling, I feel like as a marketer, especially maybe clever investors, when we Were trying to do too many funnel flows all at once. It's like the death kiss. It's really hard to be good at that many funnel flows and go deep. Yeah. Yep. So, yeah, for me, I know what we, what we do. So if someone's like, let's launch with a challenge funnel, I'm like, cool. Only if it ascends into a high ticket, you know, product. We can do a challenge as the mechanism, but otherwise I'm not interested.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. I mean, our setup right now, I'm getting a little scared of that too because we have. They're all the same model. We have three different models. It's the DTA version which is the Jeremy, the Tried and true. But we have like 4 or 5 now of tried and true VSL opt ins. So we have different brand faces and we have different messaging pockets of the same brand face. But they all funneled the same application flow sales team. But like the messaging is a little different, the storylines are different. So it's like bridging that and we have all of them live at the same time.

That's. That sounds good. That's.

Yeah, yeah. For scale, for distribution, for risk, for whatever, all these things. Yeah. But for like focus and optimization and like, oh, we want to get a 15% lead to app to a 17% lead to app on this one funnel while all the other six are running. Like, you got to dance a little because like, yeah, you do.

You need, you need to find your standardization somewhere in the Org is. Is usually what I tell people. So if you're not going to, if you're going to add complexity there, where can you simplify? Where are you simple and always do the. The same thing every single time? Like, yeah, it's got to be somewhere. I bet.

Yeah. That's why we always lead to the core offer though. So it's like at that point it does get standardized once it hits application and then everything flows the same. So it's not like bucketed as in like a setting team is only talking about this thing and then pushing to that. Like it doesn't do that. You have contextual flows. There's separate contextual flows from op to app, but not after app. It all standardizes.

Interesting. So is there. Do you have channel based acquisition leaders and employees or mission based admission by. By the person themselves?

More so channel.

More so channel. Okay, cool.

So I mean again, like meaning like diversification of spend versus diversification of like messaging.

Yes. Correct. So like example would be someone's running Facebook ads for all five of those acquisition funnel flows. So they're not mission aligned, they're channel aligned. Correct?

Yeah. So we have like dedicated buyers and dedicated buyers, but then they'll manage, call it three accounts wide and those are messaging or funnel type specific. And then all have dedicated pixels. Like it's, it's its own, it's its own beast.

If you isolated each mission funnel or each person. Is the marketing mix on channels different or is it the same just meta and Google just met in usually the same percentage or is one or some of them flipped where some people do better on a certain channel?

It's a little. But majority. It's all meta.

It's still by far. I was hoping to give you a good consolidation answer there, but yeah, you're mostly there.

I mean again, obviously Google picks up all of the side stuff, the retarget, the branded, the whatever. But in terms of like cold, cold, it's still majority meta. And then we're trying to lean into cracking organic, which is always fun. And then the other thing is like you introduce a low ticket ascension, which is like where I want to go a lot more just because it's such a better experience once you get into the setting and closing land. The higher show rates, the higher close rates. It's just an economics game, right? It's just like a true direct response game. So we're leaning more and more in that bucket. But like that tried and true is the best economics just has different consumption levels because they're technically less consumed but they're higher intent.

Yeah, level, right.

Because it's a buyer versus a lead, but a lead who goes through VSL opt in funnel has consumed multiple like generally speaking, a lot more. It's almost like our ascension funnel acts as a retargeting mechanism than anything else. Like it's a different consumption type. It's like a first step. It's a sample. Jason said this, he's like people used to say like, oh, I'm a high ticket guy, I refuse to sell low ticket because then people like will view me as cheap. And it's like, no, no, the market has shifted now to where low ticket is you sampling them, not them identifying as a cheap person. And I was like, oh, good frame and good way to say it. So like we are, we have a lot of data that would show that that is true.

Yeah, markets are informed by like usually recency bias. So the thing is like those things can change over the course of a year of their perception. I've never thought about I've never really thought about it like that. Because if you're offering something that's in a similar category, it's one thing if you're offering your time, like if you're coming in, you're like I'm doing a group coaching program. You get access, direct access to me. It's $100 that destroys the value because people product class. But yeah, I think you're absolutely fine. And I'm really curious to see what the Ascension strategy ends up looking like.

For great our do. Our ascension is unbelievable and the time has collapsed a ton. So it's like a five day ascension.

Dang. Okay.

And it is very difference and it's a good percentage but you look in high roast and it's like you know, 50 to 80% are not our existing leads because of the years of consumption they've had. And this is their first actual entry point.

Okay. So yeah, you won't know.

No, we don't know what a true low ticket ascension would look like.

No, we don't actually know.

But I mean we're running volume through it. Like we're running you know, let's call it sometimes three figures, three big old figures a day through it. So yeah, it's selling, it's just not selling 1,000 new units a day from cold like by any means. So that would be dream state. That's at some level dream state. Depending on what the ascension looks like, depending on what the consumption, depending on what the trough looks like. All you know, the, the, the variables and metrics.

But yeah, I'm curious if you're doing something like this. Like what we were originally planning for Sigma. Ignore, like ignore the scope obviously. Correct.

So kind of. So ours are dedicated out. So I don't know if you see my any of the videos but like essentially imagine it. I might be. I probably can open mine up. I just have so many things on my screen I don't want to share. But I have essentially I have like four opt in funnels. I have a DTA funnel. So imagine it over here because it's opt in that application. So then DTA funnel are here. So apps here and then we have a little ticket ascension that's over here and all of those get dedicated traffic and then they all bridge up and connect at the app and then come across. So then the app does routing and then books it here and here. But dream state is like imagine you have brand face one that talks about messaging line one. You can have that brand face one talk about messaging line two and Three if you want. They all go to the same core. But then also having that brand face with that messaging alignment, having their own matching load ticket. So like let's use an example of like whatever using that one Dating. So if we had brand face, one talks about dating. The VSL opt in funnel, the 3% of people that are ready to buy that come through can buy. Then there's also a low ticket dating funnel that's the same messaging, same person, same whatever. They're like their category king of that. And then that is just a different consumption method. They can come through and, and then the DTA thing is nice because it just picks up people who are ready and also gets lower cost per on stuff. It's just, you know, messes with. But like when they all come together. So Blake calls the vvs, he calls it the value vortex system. He's like, when you only run one of these, it doesn't work. But when you run them in tandem, they blend up. No stats as long as they're dedicated enough. And then you don't get crazy and you don't know what's where and all that because that's, you know, if you don't have proper metrics around what they hit, then this, then this. But it's working out pretty well. It's just like we haven't gone back to optimize. We still haven't necessarily directly beat control that we did 73 million through on one VSL opt in funnel. Or the low ticket is one core low ticket that like I built back in the day that's still running. So it's like we need to beat the controls but instead of directly beating control, we like went a little wider and have like multi.

So that's like, that's us and 99% of marketers because at attaching and just Blake the vortex. You're gonna have to TM that. That sounds way better than omnichannel marketing. Right?

Vvs.

It's just, it's, it reminds me of agency days because you would come on, you would sell channel expansion by saying, well, there's, there's, you know, have you heard of force multipliers? Like it's, you know, YouTube + Facebook is. You would expect the roas to jump linearly. It's really exponentially. But that is, that's good, that's good. You should add that and quote unquote, increase the, increase your margin for error. But then what you're finding is that you get sloppy about core funnel. Correct. And with my team right now we're running something like five lead magnet funnels that are all same flow but different lead magnets. And they're all roas positive, all different roas, all different velocities of speed to lead or speed to sale. So which one do you turn off? Usually a media buyer sits there and goes well vortex now is as an excuse to turn something off of like it's all because of downloaded maybe multiple lead magnets and then they need to buy. It's never almost that. It's almost always over. Nurture.

Yeah, yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And we were talking about how Jeremy was talking about this but he's like, yeah, the big guys have all these like different offers or channels within the offers and what they'll do is they'll get. Because at size they're down to basically like hire an external party or have like a full. Essentially having a marketing manager for a specific funnel of a specific channel. That's what you're saying?

That's what, yeah. Like the stage you're at right now, it makes sense to be channel or kind of hybrid a little bit. But for the most part you want to get to mission based product ecosystems because here is, here's what's happening either intentionally or unintentionally. I'd love to look at your high risk data is if you have multiple media buyers in there, they are cross retargeting funnels. They are not understanding the correlations in the user journey and then coming to false conclusions. That would be logical looking at the data.

Yeah, agreed. And we say that on things we're like, yeah, these are all feeding each other. We were like, these are all feeding each other. And we know that like our email marketer wasn't sending low ticket ever, ever was just doing consumption based and like middle bottom of funnel video. We have tons of organic that exists for middle bottle. And he was just constantly pushing value with the occasional like small cta which is good. We like that. But like we now have other offerings like low tickets. So he was put, he started pushing that and it was like oh wait, wow, look at our week over week. Like that CPA just dropped 60% because you just sent it to our list. And we're like, oh man. Like the channels aren't playing with missions plus channels aren't all playing together. They're like accidentally playing together on, you know, on the platforms but inside of our own ecosystem they weren't playing together. And I was like, guys, if it may be like this consumption, they might like this Consumption different because they don't vibe with this or they do want to buy something, but they don't want to book a call yet. Like there's these different things. If we have all these assets. Like we had a squeeze more meeting the other day that was just like, how do we squeeze more of what we're already paying? How do we squeeze more of what we currently have? And there's so many of that.

But invite me to those meetings. Those are. Those are fun. I'm like, I'm a refiner, so I'll just squeeze all the efficiency out of anything.

Clearly. Clearly. All right, I got another good one org chart of your publishing team. So I think that means basically like the deployment team.

They want to see it? Sure. Cool. I'll show them.

Josh Gavin, this one's for you. He just bought clients for free.com lowticketoffers.com and another one just relaunched it. He's like the OG he's a young kid, but he was in Ale Sultanic stuff and then crush it with low ticket offers.

And I called Satanic.

What owns Alan Sultanic.

Alan Sultanic. I thought you said he was into some Satanic stuff.

Yeah, that too. Yeah. Nice, Josh. No, but he. He owned that domain and then kind of got away from it to go into offer publisher. Basically teach people how to do a version of what you do, right? Like a. Like a smaller scale to be the marketer for an expert. And then he just had like 100 wide and I was like, dude, go a little deeper. And now he's going back into low ticket offer. Not because of me, but he's going back into like owning low ticket offers because they're hot. Right now you're crushing a little offer on one of these bigger businesses that only has VSL opt in or only does high ticket and doing it right. Like he can crush those.

So. Dude, absolutely. From the out there, dude. All right. Two factor into my org chart.

Two fa. Just.

Are they there anymore or you just have the question. I'm curious as to why they're like.

That's why they want to know the. They're like, why they want to know the structure.

They want their employees. Oh, no, no.

His is. Because again, his is same thing. It's like he gets versions of these that he publishes people's offers. And it's like, what does your deployment team look like? Because right now he'll build all the market. I actually know him like, well. So he'll build all the offers. He'll do the copywriting. Yeah. What's the go to market team or like deployment team look like to do that? And the big thing with him and I'll say is he does a lot of launches that then like kind of like fizzle out after. We always say it's like the marketer, the expert. And then once you want to like continue be evergreen and scale is the operator. So like those three layers, he does a really good job of these, but not like keeping them running by.

That's the hardest part of our model. Yeah. Because if you're go to market, like specialist, which I think of myself as after doing this so many times. The thing is, is I had worked. Ah.

You'Re not sharing anything.

I'm back. I think you heard me. Yeah, I got you. Okay, cool. Yep, I got it here. All right. You're still frozen though. I don't know if you can hear me.

I can hear you.

You're good. Okay, cool. Sweet. So in the beginning, here's what happens when. Here's what happens when I come back in to an organization. Here's our current or what's not current anymore. This is from 2024, but you guys will get a sense. Sweet. So this is my Google Docs now. Okay. Oh yeah. Shares. Whole screen. All right. Entire screen. You see everything. All right. Org chart. Well, you would have this in a big organization. You have all these. Like I said this is last year. But you would have. We had mission based pods, right. A director of marketing that owned a brand or clump of brands and then their teams that they could curate and use their resourcing under them. This year we had to break that and move to channel specialists with mission based brand directors. So someone besides just a director of marketing. So director of marketing was essentially not maybe well equipped in every facet to run a P and L operationally for a mission. So we switched to mission based. Yeah, AMs essentially account managers, specialized teams or specialized divisions of marketing and whatnot. So but at Go to Market that looks a lot different. The Skunk Works team that you really need, the minimum viable team is growth operator, sales rep guru. And if you really want to get into the two person like thing and it has to be two people, Growth operator who is also taking sales calls, guru and product guy who's also taking sales calls. And you guys both take sales calls until it makes sense to hire someone like, I started Astro flipping with that team structure on me and Josiah put in maybe $8,000 between the two of us of our own money to launch Astro. And then because. Because the guru or because the expert was taking calls. Josiah and Jamil at the time had great close rates and it led to this nice scenario where we had, we did over 250k in revenue on month one, which is very rare. If you have a new sales team, it's just like you're using that to your advantage and what ends up happening. You guys see this still? Yeah. Is this right? This.

I'm in the middle of the screen on top of the thing.

Oh yeah, Let me get rid of you there. Here stops here. So it's just my screen here. This now? Yes. Right. So this is the minimum viable. It's just two to three people. And we did that until we got to that trough. That trough is us removing the experts. And thankfully I had two experts at that time. They were business partners, Jamila and Josiah, both in the course videos, taking calls with me, setting and filling the whole calendar. And at that point, that trough and the spike up, that's when we put in a sales manager and had them recruit their own team and bring a team in and thus it scaled back up again. So yeah, that's, that's.

What do you think about, what do you think about sales agencies?

I use them from time to time. I've worked with most of them.

Yeah. Because I was. We. I've had this conversation now multiple times and like I didn't know that existed. Slash, no one offered it to us when we were in a place that it really would have made sense like to have just 20% written right off the PNL and or more so off the new P and L and just like let someone else have all the management, all the setters, all the closers on their P and L instead. Like I would have done that in two seconds to have fully dedicated people and not had the headache. And instead we went the other direction and you know, trial and tribulation. 3, 3 failures brought an in house manager, finally got to 3 million. Then it all exploded in that land kind of again which was like marketing plus sales acquisition, total issue for sure. Now we've got a rock star and we're like redoing it. But everyone is W2, we're going like full bore because we're trying to do the real like hit large, large scale. But for these guys who are at 100 and want to go to 300, 500amillion, like I'm almost always like, just get a sales agency. Like if you're not innately good at sales, like why wouldn't you just pay.

That you would and what you want to do. Like I said, I've worked either when I had the marketing agency. I've worked with over four outsourced sales agencies in in this space and there's probably a few more options a go to market if you can. The only thing that chokes you out to go to market is if your funnel is too thin, the margin's too thin in order to add that extra extra overhead. But expect to pay and want to pay 25% to those external agencies, those ones you can realize about a 5% cost savings by in housing eventually maybe a little bit more. You consider payroll tax and recruiting fees and everything else. So I think it's a quick way if you want speed just find an agency be like hey have you ever sold in this niche, this industry at this price point? And if the answer is yes, what a lot of them end up having is getting cut out. Much like a marketing agency. There's a time where they're growing, growing, growing, plateauing maybe attrition and you're like okay, we'd be better off just in housing. That happens. But I worked with Josh Troy in his shop when with Cody last year. Josh the man. I've worked with Kayvon and Marcus out of sales connection. I've worked with Randall Grizzle at his company in the early days of drop surfing offer and they were instrumental in us Getting quickly to 3, $4 million range in revenue when we would have had no shot at it otherwise at that stage. So those are just some of the examples across the years. Gray area sales which is now something different. Rev Pilot too. They are on Bilzerian right now. We chose that approach for Bilzerian so we originally had staffed it up because Dan had the ability basically to make one post and flood any sort of sales floor. So we knew we needed somewhere between 8 to 20 reps. Turns out it went a little bit different but it's such a good move I think just, just realize be more efficient profitability later. You know you have an extra 5% you can play at any time. So yeah you can build a cohorted sales team in house in the same way and then just gradually shift calendar spend too over.

Yeah yeah, I completely agree. I think once if you can just do what you said with close your own up until 100, 200k a month and then just pass off to an agency and then think about it later but like go back to just dominating marketing. All you focus on is marketing. All you focus on is product quality. All good, maybe even ascension at that point and then if you want take back your sales team but like until then, like you handle the stuff that is more in your. In your wheelhouse anyway.

I would agree. And even better if you, if you have them like especially tied to the hip with the community manager or someone doing the Omni onboarding, that's. That makes it go pretty well and then they don't have to worry about. Usually I think people worry other than the cost compliance. Just like them not selling you in the right way. That can be avoided though, so easily. Exactly. Yeah.

You work with a good one. Yeah. I talked to Josh down in. I did a whole like hour and a half or whatever with him when I was in Miami in like a studio and he was just going all in on ops and details and structure and like dedication and like. He was. Yeah, he's right.

He's good. He's taught me a lot. He sold me into a 50k mastermind. That's how we met.

Yeah, that's fun.

Questions and then relationship developed. Yeah. Nice.

All right, next one on here. Depth, verse, width. Does he ever wish you went deeper on two to three offers instead?

Yes. Simple answer.

Yeah.

Yes. But in hindsight's 2020 or whatever that expression is.

Yeah, that's right.

Portfolio. If I, Yeah, if I look back at the time, I would have made the same decision, unfortunately because I didn't know which brands were going to be the ones that emerged. But certainly while I'm in Arizona here today, as opposed to Colorado, certain Point Pace. Pace created so much asymmetry in the portfolio that all of us put more focus into it. It just, it's hard to turn off things that are like semi profitable. But then when you look at it as far as your opportunity costs or allocated overhead, that's just not hitting the actual P and L. You're like, why am I actually running a charity on some of these brands? Right. So we've shut maybe two or three down this year and we'll probably continue to narrow. The goal isn't any. The goal is no longer for me. I used the original vision of bexa was start40e learning brands that advance human potential. I was like, that doesn't sound fun anymore. To manage 40 brands. I'd much prefer I can still get my risk diversified portfolio at 5 to 6 as opposed to 40. Yeah.

And even like you said, inside them when they get to size, we initially were talked about, oh, maybe we should relaunch this in multiple faces but have them external or other brand names or other whatever and I was kind of leaning in the direction of no, let's keep them in house. Which now we ended up doing thankfully the simple things. 4 different emails, 4 different HubSpot accounts, 4 different sales teams, 4 different whatever. Versus like you can do that internal at scale you can still get your itch and like want be interested in this thing but like roll it in depending how you know wide it is. But yeah, I'm a huge fan of that.

I focus I've never done. What do you. What would you consider when people call like vertical expansion or horizontal expansion? What would you consider doofy now A different brand in a different language. It's like entirely.

Yeah. The whole truly shifting markets like even geos. And then obviously language that follows like that's. That's damn near a complete dupe. I mean it is a complete dupe. Like everything down to your contextual flows are in another language to all of your. Your front end, all of your contents in another language to your delivery. And your entire team needs to be able to either be, you know, bilingual like that is you have to have again under the same thing because you're duping. So like you can basically like I would use that as an example of like you would have two funnel flows and those would just be the same ways that we launch another brand face funnel or whatever. It's like it has different contextual flows, it has different whatever. You need different forms, you need different sales team, you need different things like all across. But it's under the same brand, it's the same person. So it's like not as far as everything separate because you get to use a lot of synergy. But like that's probably as hard as it gets while staying in the box.

So I think it probably gets harder would be my guess. I think you should try because I want to see. But my here's my thought is consulting. We ran into this too because I had figured out dynamic pricing and I was like cool. We can use the same funnel flow and I can actually map prices. That would work for the other countries. That's the biggest variable usually is cool. You can dupe everything out, but the price and affordability is still there. It's different in different countries. So it's like cool. I solved that issue. We can do like Netflix does and offer different prices or Verizon in every different country. But then we ran into the cultural complexity. So then I started rewriting. Not not only was I getting ads translated verbatim, but then having to have them translated by a copywriter who understood the cultural nuance too. So then there was that. Then that had to go through and inform the whole funnel, which meant that all the videos needed to be different in theory. So I was running to a few of those roadblocks that made me stop and then I haven't tried again since. So you go about it, I mean.

What you could do with AI or what you could do, whatever. It's different when you know, it solves.

This problem for us. You're right.

Yeah, a lot better. But then still same thing is what happens once they get on the phone, what happens once they get into the community, what happens when they get any email?

Someone says the sales script won't work in India. We would never. From this. Yeah, right.

Yeah, exactly. We never do current state and desired state here. We don't do that. Exactly.

So. Right. And that's, that's. That was my ending conclusion. I have a dope report where I was starting to get into cultural cluster theory that some sociologist was up and I was.

That's what I knew. I went too deep.

Yeah, I went too deep and I had six different. Because I didn't want 200 different countries that have 200 different methodologies. So I went six and lumped them by these characteristics and that kind of worked, but it was still too complex. So yeah, I'm interested in someone solving this in the future. It seems like most enterprise or Fortune companies just do. They do like different regions have a new leader as opposed to an extension of that roll up functionally. So good luck, dude. Let me know if you do it. You're a genius.

All right, next one. I'd be interested to hear his take on the current state of the info coaching industry. Are we going through a shakeout period where the best are just going to bubble to the top or are we still in a growth phase? Meaning can the market sustain growth or are we already at saturation point?

We. Great question. I love whoever's asked that. I have an actual David Goldfinch.

He provides some solid value.

People have told me that I can actually answer that objectively and I think so too. So the short answer is we have plateaued. The elearning space as it stands has been in a plateau for about a year to nine months. And the fact I haven't seen much growth at all at the macro level. And of course there's always going to be shifts. Different people rise and different people fall for various reasons and the industries emerge. So there are certain industries that are closing or growing really rapidly still. If you Want to look at the macro condition and sell. If you're trying to sell people on the idea to start an E learning business like I am, you don't have an amazing market argument. This year. The only market argument that I could make, which is why I'm focused on YouTube organic, is that in a world where AI gets a lot scarier and people don't know who is real and who is fake, it really pays to have built your personal brand in an era before AI where there is the ability to verify that this person had videos that were published before these AI tools were good enough. So always draw this line of saying no matter what, anything before 2022 or whatever, I'm curious what it ends up being. People are like, no, VO3 was good enough that era. But in general, let's call it 2020 pre Covid. Anything that existed will probably be cemented and solidified and then in person until robotics good enough. So if you run a robotics.

Oh God, yeah, you're right.

So right now it's important for me to put videos right now that people know are real because I bet this discussion between you and me, I bet me and you have enough call recordings where we could have mimicked something similar this time next year. Yeah, and we'll have podcast episodes and we'll have the ability, no one will be able to compete on voracious content. You'll have people like Hormozi who are like, I work so hard and then I'll be like cool. I can come at that same pace right as you. So you will never, you will never win again by volume. Now you can make the argument though he's actually putting the reps in which makes them better, which makes overall the content better. And I agree with that. Hard work will never go out of style. But just certain arenas I want to be cemented right now at this moment as opposed to later. So if you are going to build a personal brand and been putting it off and launching your E learning business, now is a great time. It's just like what are we going to do next? I think that's what's going to happen. People are going to flock to in person events in person will be the only thing that they believe is real anymore. And yeah, we do a live event, live, live event in the office right now. There's 120 students who just bought sub 2 or something similar from us that are in here right now. And every year we're doing the annual event which we're trying to get better at. Too. So whatever your method of deploying live is, even if it's a free student meetup, that's. That's been our bread and butter for the last five years. And that will actually build you a moat in the future. So in person, community moats are super interesting.

You say that. Yeah, we get.

I like regulatory and governance modes where you can shut things down. That's also style.

Yeah, the follow up on that question was will AI change the game? Which you already answered. But we're talking about riding the wave in the opposite direction too. You're basically saying that, right? How are you heading against it and how are you cementing yourself in live in the ways that can't be duped? We're kind of leaning against it in terms of like a marketing message like we already don't fulfill in that way. So I was like why don't we double down on that if we're already biting it on the P L Like that we do one to one coaching that we do this. Why would we even close to compete with a nine dollar a month AI coach or something? Like why don't we lean so hard in the opposing direction? That's like we're one to one. You get a person, it's only a person. If we're paying, we might as well get the lift on the front in terms like the offer, the ctr, the whatever. So we're doing that.

But dude, can I give you one content idea? I think this would be dope split screen like kind of like us right now, same person, same like customer asking the AI coach $9 version the same thing and getting vastly different in parallel with your real coach and just being like, well that's dangerous advice. Someone's like, you should not not eat or drink water for five days comparatively to the.

Yeah, these things hallucinate. You're talking to a robot. Like we have all this stuff in this in an ammo box. But the in person events, very interesting because like the economics of that generally are not great unless you can be in the high ticket world or sponsored world or something in order to make it work. And especially if you're trying to do like experience based ones that are destination in some capacity and with our market is very. It's a little more difficult because it's not. Not to call what necessarily biz op but like biz op or where everyone is. Not only are they going after the same results of what they basically purchase or what the program is about, but they also are very. A lot of time have more Similarities in like who they are as people. Ours has a tie in the results but has a little bit difference in that. So we haven't personally, we haven't done that. There's another guy that's in the German market that has crushed it with in person using basically like speaker led events that then have a bunch of reps at it and do like before and after photos and stuff like that. And they do all like resigns there. So it's definitely in the road map. It's something. But like events I've heard are just crazy hard to manage. Like you just did one with What'd you say, 3,000 people?

Yeah, it's the most chaotic week of my life right now for the last two years. It's fun but terrible at the same time. But rewarding enough. So dude, I think probably the version for you is different. You got to build in person somewhere. So whether it's boots on the ground and you've white labeled a supplement and you have reps doing events at supermarkets or whatever it is. A lot of times people in the health space I feel like don't even white label supplements. They can just JV with supplements or some more sample based health foods or gyms. There's a lot of just already physical gathering places of community of people who like health. I would not try to create a new category like it's frickin topgolf or you know, peloton users or whatever. And people are like okay, I have to understand there's this new fourth place in my life now. So just think about the. And everything that you have. Distribution.

No, no, that's completely agree. And this actually kind of feeds into the next question on this of what are some of the best niches? And in terms of best niches, what have you seen for massive backend opportunities? So what do you see as best.

Niches for massive backends, massive back ends and by massive, I imagine revenue. Right, well we can go either way. Massive back end.

So revenue, profit or enterprise value. You could pick poison.

Yeah, I'll just show you guys here objectively. What guys got all the data? Yeah, I got all the data. Data, data, data, data don't matter to me. Tomato, tomato. All right, all right, sweet. So we have top for traffic. I'm narrowing down to business right now. Let me expand it back. So if we want to get everything that we have here and what are we on? We're on year this year tool looks like. Yeah, this year so far. And then I'm going to. We'll Drill down. We'll go from primary to things that get really specific. So here's the answer. This is a super valuable table. Anyone who tells you that elearning is growing or not growing, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is what do you want to do? So I would look at total low end revenue by year. These are my conservative estimates. And then I would look at specifically drilling down even further into the category that you want in order to niche it further. Like a lot of times I'm in my secondary or third category. And then like for what you guys wanted, let's assume back end. We don't have to associate it with a payment type, but let's call it. You want to have a backend that is a weekly. Right. Or a yearly. You filter these on so you can understand. Does a reoccurring revenue model exist within my current industry opportunity? Maybe it's a one time, maybe it's something else, but that's how I would go about this and then continue to drill down into secondaries. And like I said, I like to go by third categories when I'm really thinking about beginning an offer. It's one thing to comp, you know, Dave Ramsey to personal finance and call him a personal financing brand, but I bet he didn't start as a personal finance guy. Most likely he started as a guy who had this unique method around shaving a quarter off of your paycheck every time. And it was the paycheck quarter method. Right. So not saying that that gets that specific, but KDP is Amazon. KDP is a business opportunity. So you see like the individual nuance within Amazon, for instance, opportunities or college applications. So I don't know if this answers your question entirely.

Yeah, it does.

Yep. Needless to say, there is a lot of opportunity still. And if you look by a category, we can see definitively that we're not getting a ton of growth anymore over. Is this the last four years? Yeah, I started this project in 2022. So I don't have four years of data, but you guys can see. Yeah, it's actually more than a plateau. I think I lied. Unless I'm filtering down on something. Let's see. For real?

For real, for real.

Yep. Yeah, we're in a. We're in some sort of overall saturation. And that can be problematic if people are saying that there is opportunity that floods competitors into more products, into the same amount of market. I like when the market's growing and the product competitors are becoming less obviously.

Or just the same, it's almost, I mean tell me if you think wrong, but it's almost true. Right. Because the market generally, theoretically speaking is continuing to grow into this online coming in of ways of online specific niche education. And if the market of you know, offers or quality offers or standout offers is truly less like more market share.

Right.

As a percentage.

Yeah, it is. Right. And there's, I mean if you plan to win in your niche anyway, then you don't even care. You're, you don't care about competition because you're playing, you're playing last mover game. So yeah, for me though, being, being a second mover, third mover, still pretty great. Yeah. Being somewhere in the middle in a crowded market that's undifferentiated and everyone has the same methodology. No bueno. Which is kind of what I'd say with just life coaching, let's call it as a niche. Life coaching is really, really hard to build to get started and build a business in right now because of how, how much there is available for product solutions.

Those numbers in there, those just account for the info coaching portion of the business. So let's use an example like if pace on there had a fund, like that's an insane monetization method. But that's not included in.

Correct? No, I, and I don't, I don't even see these insane big back ends. What, what we do is crawl through the funnel as deep as we can. But you can't crawl through a fall funnel call funnel. I wish. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's amazing though. So I mean that's 99.9. You know, you have all the data from that side of things that nobody has. That's amazing. But yeah, people always ask me this and I always say like insurance is one that I know like relatively well. So these guys who do these info coaching offers and then have something finance related, they have estate attorneys, they have whole life insurance, they take whole life insurance, put it, you know, take loans against it, put in real estate, they have funds or flips or this like and I'm sure you know the names of the guys who have done that and done you know, nine figures. So I would do, because people always ask me like what would you do if you restarted or like what industry would you pick or what niche? And I would do that in two seconds. I would live in that land of like wealth management or like so finance in some capacity and, or like insurance in some capacity. I think.

Yeah, dude. If I wanted to see, if I wanted to go after that and see the biggest back ends, though, whoever asked that, just use a different tool. Use something like built with or a tool that can detect web snippets and tools. And just look for stuff like schedule ones. Look for stuff like Salesforce. Look for stuff that would be like the tool stack that someone with a big sales floor would use. Like a dialer, a dedicated dialer. Oware certain CRMs, like, people stop using ActiveCampaign and Infusionsoft and certainly ClickFunnels when they get to certain revenue classes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

100. Last question on here is a funny one. Are you Jewish? Do you. Can he work for you? And do you go fishing based on your last name?

Yeah, you can. You can work for me in theory. I do go fishing. Not as much as I used to in high school. I used to go three, maybe three times a week. And I had to give that hobby up and several others in order to get good at this stuff. Yeah, I have two kids, too, so it's pretty much family and business right now. And some music just come back to my life, but that's it. And I will. I don't think I'm Jewish, but I will take an Ancestry.com test if you want me to. That's the term.

I'm good. Maybe him, but I'm good. Amazing.

All right.

Well, yeah, no, your Instagram is flooded with good stuff. I mean, now that you're doing this big push too. Before, it was like the. Before, I would categorize you as like the behind the scenes, absolutely mobbing. Like everyone, anyone who knows knows, which is the thing that you already have had and you held that authority in the space. It's just not as much for either the newcomers to the space or the kind of just, you know, majority of kind of the offer. Guys, X is flooded with it. And you. We talked about that real quick before we turned this on. But yeah, when I started doing the just consistent content. I'm not saying that that is by any means the method or the mode. I put on, like deep conversations like this in person that have gotten 10 and 20 or whatever. 10 and 12 and whatever. Thousand views. More so than a video of me going so in depth. They're talking about something that's XYZ way that could be hugely, like very, very valuable. And that'll get like 600 to a thousand views. And that's just like nature of the game, but, like, it depends on what your goal is.

What. What are you after with this channel?

My entire. So the whole point of the initial part was what I say in the beginning, which is like talent. Which worked like unbelievably well. So chief of sales CMO technically came like around then but wasn't because of them. So I can't attribute that. But like marketing, tech, sales reps. I just posted for sales reps and got like 100 plus apps. Like that's people.

That would be great. Yeah, yeah.

So like that kind of stuff and then people pass it around. So like overall talent of people wanting to work here, knowing of us so that when we have positions it becomes available. Same thing with just kind of like awareness that kind of fits in the bucket of like company and brand awareness. I don't talk a ton about actual brand name. I did really early on and just like share the exact funnel pages. Now I just call it Mainco. But like anybody who knows knows or anyone who wants to look can find it just because XYZ of just how far they were reaching. My whole goal was zero virality. It was to stay in pocket. It was never to do the fancy edits or the video of me in the beginning and then the, you know, X, Y, Z edit. It was just like screen shares. Deep in the trenches. Only person who's going to watch this, like I have so many people in like my personal world will be like, yeah, I tried to watch and I just have no idea what you're talking about. But like it looks like it's cool.

That's. Yeah. Because half of my following is like family and friends and stuff. Yeah. So they might be confused.

Yeah, I did a full effort to. I didn't, I didn't publish any of that stuff or share any of it. So I, all I did was I had a hundred, I think on X that was like some OG random stuff. And then I had like 20 on YouTube that was from literally like when I accidentally uploaded videos that were lives for like some random brand I worked with six years ago. So I had nothing on basically either. And when I started posting, I did not post on Instagram, which was all relative friendish family and Facebook, which is friend, family and digital marketer world. I didn't post on there either actually. So I built it all, just posting on YouTube. And then when I hit 35 days or something in a row, some kid that had found me on there had been messaging me on Instagram because I kept telling everyone to message me on Instagram. He put it on. He put a screen share like a screenshot on X. And overnight I got like 3,000. Literally overnight I got like 3,000 subscribers on X and 3,000 subscribers on YouTube.

Whoa. So you hit certain tipping point. Were there different tipping points along the way or was it steady?

That was, that was the big first one. So that was at about 35 days in a row. And I literally was talking that morning about just stopping because I was like this is like, like I don't know how much value I'm giving or what really the exchanges or if this is going to work. And I was getting like 100 views or 50 views or something on these videos and had built up, I still had very quality lead like whatever you want to call it, like inflow. I had the guy that were making 3 million a month, 500k a month. Oh you know, so and so sent it to me from my company, I own it but my marketing tech is watching it or whatever. So I got a lot of that. But then once it hit that it went like mainstream within our world on X. So once it was on x X and YouTube stayed directly mirrored. So that was the first big inflection. Then I just started having conversations around all the topics and with people about the videos while still doing the dailies. Once I got to about 60 videos in a row. So two months straight I had Eddie Maloof on as my first one. Like hey, you want to just shoot the shit on here and let's record it and then post it. And we did that and that popped. That got like 12,000 views. Still my highest video in general and interview and then it was like because I now knew all these guys through X. So I got connected with Adam Young, CEO of Ringba. I got connected in like the affiliate lead gen world because I have context and like know some friends there. So it was like that agency and info coaching all are on X and now I just had this like rung. I built the top 100 and I publicly posted it and was like here are the people I to have on and other people are connecting me. I'm Getting random follows DMs hey can I pop on? And then from then it was just like random cadence of who could get on and it was just whales of the space or like they posted your.

Dream 100 and just as like aspirationally said you were going to have these people on.

Yeah, I just said these are people I'd love to talk to like everyone up to like in my world like a Dan Martell or like an Iman or somebody on here all the way to like guys I knew that were just crushing it or like lead gen guys that Were crushing it. So I've had lead gen guys on paper call guys.

I'm gonna do that too. We're. We're, we're lying. This method's gonna work so much better for me than some of the other tips. It's not that like it. Other things don't work. It's just like when I find something that's more my style, I can be consistently posting stuff and post my dream 100, which I also already did. Yeah, to me, that's, that's a lot better of an answer than you have to do TikTok dances. That's.

Yeah. Yeah. And I never did any short form whatsoever. So people are like, oh, you'll get more reach and you'll get more whatever. I do know a guy that does it, that does it specifically still like very in depth, depth clips. So there's stuff that's like very specific but just a shorter consumption method. And he does it to like build depth within that core pocket. But again, my goal is to like. If you look at the other guys in our world that talk about this, the top ones are 20k, 30k, 50k, maybe like subscribers. And even those guys start to lean in the direction of like lifestyle or like 0 to 1. And that's not my world. Like, I don't, I don't. One, I can't really help those people. Two, my lifestyle as I sit at the desk. And three, like, it's not like I'm like, what do I post on Instagram? I sit right here all day every day. But like, yeah, I just did that up until. And then literally this weekend, I posted on like my Facebook for the first time. I was like, oh, by the way, I just did 120 videos in a row.

Yep.

And here was the outcome. So yeah, it was talent, it was opportunities. Opportunities flowed. Which again, you commented on that thing. But like, I deny all the consulting deals. I deny all the partnership deals. I'll sometimes pass them if it's like someone who has something really great and I know someone really great. That could be a mix. And then last one was friends slash network, which is like, I didn't have any friends that did this. I moved out of, move back to like, you know, near my hometown basically and have my OG friends fam girlfriend, that vibe. And all I talk about and do is this. So I didn't have anyone to talk about it with. And now I get talked about it all the time, all day.

That's. That's fun. You solved a lot of your problems. I did you go on the new ones.

I did. Exactly. Now I have like the actual ones instead of.

Yeah, I'm. I'm super excited that I got to know you. I kept hearing your name around too. People were like, ryan Clogg, freaking genius. You got to get this guy on. He's this, that and the other. His pre call no show motion is pretty insane, you know, or whatever. And I'm like, if I hear that, I'm like, okay, I'm already in.

Yeah, exactly. People who know.

No. Yeah, dude, thank you.

I'm getting a ton of comments already, but yeah, no, we can wrap this. I know we're supposed to be out of here 15 minutes ago, so.

Yeah, hopefully you're going to be this tipping point for me. You'll be like that random guy, that 3000 guy. Mr. 3000 Guy on X. Please retweet your.

What's your actual X?

So everyone, my actual X is Dude.

Now I'm telling you right now, that is a major platform for this.

Cool. Let's see it is do I'm gonna have to go through. Actually, you know what? I'm not gonna clean it up, but it is handle is fish new. I'll share my screen so you can see which one. But it's of me. My profile picture. I don't see the chat.

Oh, I found it. Fish new. Got it.

All right, sweet.

I S H and I W for everyone. And I'm going to post it under.

Thank you, man.

There you go.

I'm gonna start. Yeah.

So all I do and you can see on mine not say mine's the best by any means. A lot of people, like Jeremy Haynes has a really good one where he shares like, kind of like, like thoughts or like polarizing things in different directions about a lot of things around. Cash collection, show rates, different piece of marketing funnels. But I use it much more conversationally, much more. And like reach out, like, who's the best at this random AI thing, for example. And everyone will comment in this thread and I'm like having different conversations moving things to DM that are about this. Some kid just helped me with some crazy AI project and it all comes from that kind of stuff.

So you ask for help on X.

That I actually need. Not just like, not just engagement farming. Like I'm actually like, oh, this is where we're at. Like, who knows the best thing about this thing? And like I'll get a bunch of comments or who else should I have on this? Here's my top 100. Here are the 30 people I interviewed already. Who else? And I'll get tags. And, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. Like, today I set one up with, like, we're literally my DMs right now. Stefan, Georgie, Alan Sultanic. And I went back and forth and then I got two more on Instagram today that I set. So, like, this week now I have Luca Nets. I'm going out with Josh Gavin. I'm getting on with John Casto, who's a big guy. Douglas James from Lead Fi.

Yeah.

And then another one that I'm not talking about yet because it's not. It's not public.

But wait.

Yeah. All from just posting and being like, who should I connect with? And then people see it and we go back and forth and it's like, cool as jam.

Heck, yeah, dude. I'm going to steal this exact strategy. This has been a game changer of a convo. I am excited to have you on at some point so I can ask you more in depth questions about how you grew. But for right now, I can just reverse engineer. I'll just look from your oldest videos to your newest and then just figure it out from there.

Yeah, yeah. Start at like. Yeah, the first 10:15.

I do the same content. You're like, that's not what the point was. That's how I am. Yeah, I'm like, I'm from Detroit.

Yeah, I'm from Detroit. Hi, guys. Ryan. Yeah, no, they were always very like, here's how we set up our sales team commissions to be automated. Like, here's my Zap flow of sales team availability tracker, and here's my Google script I use to show my availability across sales team for 30 days in advance.

I'm gonna love your channel. Yeah. Because that's. That's like my loom library, so.

Exactly. It's literally my loom library. It's just live and public, so. All right, well, I'm going to get this live today on YouTube, so it's already on X. Everyone's got it there. And talk soon.

Peace.

All right, appreciate you.

Bye.