Ariana Thacker on the Engineer-to-Investor Playbook | Ep67

I've been experimenting with 5 founders right now. Like, how do I increase their manifestation abilities? This is so cool. I mean, this is like, I was not expecting this podcast to go this direction. I was like, okay, yeah, let's talk. Let's talk. Yeah. So this is fun.

I love that. Well, hello everyone and welcome back to Seed to Harvest with me, your host, Paige Finn Doherty. I'm the founding partner behind Genius Ventures and author of the children's book for adults on venture called Seed to Harvest. And I'm super excited to have my friend Ariana Thacker here today. She's the founding partner of Conscience, an early-stage venture firm. Ariana, welcome to the show. Do you mind giving us a little bit of a bio on you?

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me, Paige. So chemical engineer by trade, ended up going to school at UCLA, self-funding that whole journey without any debt. So graduated in 4 years and decided to work out in oil and gas kind of randomly. So Imagine having like a hot pink hard hat, steel-toed boots out in the desert, only chick on a team of, let's say, around 50 guys. And I was like handling different operations and activities. So picture optimizing pumping units, exploring the gas plant, optimizing compressor stations, designing and laying down pipe. Like it's, it's quite an industrial role. And then at some point I realized this isn't really tied to my mission and it's not really bringing me joy. So I had this reflexive moment and, um, time away where I actually traveled. So went to around 20 countries solo and gained some perspective, came back and serendipitously got into early stage startups. So a professor from UCLA's mechanical engineering department reached out and joined the founding team there, which is really exciting. A lot of lessons learned. And that really ignited this passion to get into early stage investing and startups, which does genuinely bring me a lot of joy. So that started this whole trajectory into learning as much as possible, just chatting with as many people as possible, listening to all the content I could, I can get my ears on, reading tons of books, getting immersed in the space, talking with tons of founders, adding value, and eventually got the job in VC, which A lot of folks and my, you know, my friends and peers were pretty skeptical. They're like, you know, venture capital is quite competitive. Like, you know, how are you going to just cold apply and get a job? And, you know, it worked out. It didn't, I don't know, it didn't really take that many applications. It just felt like there was this force kind of driving this pathway and this journey. And that was also like a really great experience. So investing mainly in physical sciences and applied engineering companies and the firm I worked at had this heavy co-creation model. So it was kind of this like venture studio hybrid with a venture capital model. And we would act as extensions of the executive team and help commercialize these really advanced technologies out of the lab alongside professors and PhD students. So I thought that was just really cool. And I've always had this desire to lead, to build, to do things on my own, to kind of go my own way and had this vision initially where science can more translate to the individual better, faster. Like, how can we commercialize these solutions so much quicker and not just put money behind like small, small components of a product, but actually deliver final products to the individual and have it just be far more efficacious than anything we've, we've seen. So that was the initial thesis when starting Conscience, and that was like a whole journey in itself. Yeah. Okay.

I love that. I'm so excited to dig into this more.

I wanna ask like, where were you when you I was in Boston working at my prior firm, and I noticed that the companies I was drawn to had this strong, I would say, consumer bend. Like it wasn't just, you know, a material science innovation that can go into an automotive coating or something like that. Like it was something that was a lot more tangible and something I could see in the hands and interacting with the individual. And It wasn't really solidified at that time cuz I didn't really, I like, there wasn't really a concept for it, right? Like when you have a vision for something, yeah, there's not really like a firm thing to compare it to.

So it was like, I always say like the language arises, but like building an investment thesis is kind of like you're like building a circus underwater where you're like trying to put up the tent poles, but there's not really a word for it. And like sometimes there is, or sometimes it arises and then it kind of like floats to the top and People get it, but a lot of times you're just like down there trying to put up the tent and being like, what are the words that I use to describe this?

So yeah. I love that analogy so much. Yeah, that's, that's 100% right. Yeah. I think it just hit one day, like there was just enough data points and stringing that together and, and it eventually just, just came and here it is. Yeah.

Yeah. It was funny cuz I, was that the first, was that the First time we met in person at Bridge, or did we meet in person before? I was trying to think about it.

It feels like we've been talking. I, I think that was, I think that was the first time by Skype.

Yeah, I'll lay this out for the audience. Like, me and Ariana were at the Bridge Conference, which is, uh, a conference for like emerging managers and limited partners in venture in San Francisco. And we literally like, we're like hands in the air waving. We're like, oh my God. Oh my God. Because we've been, we've been working, we got to know each other when we were I think you were, you were still raising, you were raising your first fund and we were in the process of, I think we had raised like a million or something. So we met super early on in our respective journeys. And I think you, we've done like a couple deals together as well. So we did The Last Gameboard and I had Shail on the podcast, which is cool.

So I'll focus on The Last Gameboard. Shail was our inaugural founder in the portfolio. So the first investment we made was into The Last Gameboard and It's actually a company that I've re-upped in out of the fund. So it's, you know, the strategy in Conscience is technically initial checks and opportunistically can consider additional investment into the company. So we've only done that a couple times in the portfolio, so I just have so much conviction for Shailyn and what she's building, and I'm excited that you, you have the same vision there too.

Yeah, I was gonna say we doubled down as well. We haven't doubled down in many companies. I think it's like 2 or 3 across our portfolio in Fund 1, and we doubled down in Glass Gameboard as well.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's just so much to love there. Like, I guess like laying, laying the foundation for what it is. So it's a, imagine a tablet with unlimited touchpoints, 3D game pieces. This is far more immersive experience than you can have with your, your iPad. Right. And they've just had incredible partnerships with, you know, blue chip tier 1 B2B routes. They've had just extensive consumer traction selling out on Kickstarter in less than 24 hours. Their engagement metrics, which we're now starting to to get excited about the last couple quarters really stands out in this category. And they've built something quite technically defensible. So the thesis, I've actually refreshed it recently from consumer and science to science empowering humanity, which just felt a lot more aligned and true. So she has that technical defensibility, which did have an extensive moat for them, and they do have patents around that. And I think the business model is quite unique and has already been validated. So one, it's the obvious one, right? The hardware, you're buying the hardware, it's a one-time fee, and then the ongoing subscription fee to have access to the games. But then you also have this immense data play, right? So as a board game producer, I don't know if you're playing Monopoly every night of the week or once a decade with your family. So now I have extensive insights. How often are you using these games? Who are we marketing to? Where do we have product line extension, et cetera? So there's this data that just informs so many insights, and it's really the next evolution of board games. Furthermore, it ties into this creator economy theme that we've seen ramping up for quite a while now, right? So now there's a platform outside the App Store for game developers, small and large, or even independent game developers to push their games on that platform and monetize, right? And there's also the edtech component too, which they've also had some traction. So there's like 4 distinct models where they can generate revenue and have margins and outcomes outside of what you, you would typically see with a hardware product. And Shail's a first-time founder and she just kicks butt. Like she is just relentless. She's ambitious. She does not give up. Like COVID, bring it on. Supply chain issues, bring it on. Like she was able to just navigate all of that so brilliantly. So huge fan of her and the team.

Yeah, I, yeah, I, I'm just like such a huge fan of Shell. I actually got to meet her for the first time. She came out for our annual summit in April and she brought the game board with her and it was so exciting.

Oh, cool.

Because we got to like play in the office and it was like, it was a huge hit. So that was really cool. But I wanna go like a little bit deeper into what are kind of like some of the exciting parts and maybe not so exciting parts about being Yeah, I'll start off with the exciting part.

So I love being a student, so I take every opportunity with founders to just learn as much as possible. And I say student in a really broad sense, like beyond just learning new technical concepts and, and how to approach business in an effective way, but also psychological learning too. I just learned so much about other people and their point of view and perspectives, and that, that unlocks a lot in me just to have these mirrors throughout the day. So that's really exciting. I love that. That brings me a lot of joy. just tremendous joy to interact with some of the most brilliant, high EQ, high IQ, highly ambitious, highly visionary people on the planet. Like what other jobs really afford that? I don't really know. Like it's, for me, I feel like the path has to be venture for how much benefits are derived in this role. I mean, there's like endless things that, that I love about this job, but I guess like going into the not so exciting parts, like, you know, this is, this is a job with a lot of context shifting, right? Like you, you could pack your calendar and, you know, I historically, I have been packing my calendar with 40 to 60. meetings a week. And I recently had the epiphany, and this is tied to some of the, the deep work I'm doing internally to shift and, yeah, and be the leader and be the person I want to be, which, you know, that takes a lot of like that whole journey of ego death and reflection and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, it's just, it's just not a good recipe for effective decision-making, mental wellbeing, equanimity, tapping into the intuitive, tapping into— understanding where to focus and what to cut, right? Like strategy is what, is what you don't do in, in a lot of ways. I, I picked up that phrase from, from someone else, but, uh, yeah, so I, it was, it was a major adjustment in how I work and how I focus time. And I'm right back to having that be, I guess, a new love for this, for this work, because I don't think it really takes 40 to 60 meetings. a week to be effective and to drive results. Like a lot of that was, was waste, right?

Yeah.

And I, I, I recently, yeah.

I was gonna say, I also went through that transition and it's been like so helpful cuz now I just have like a much higher bar for like what is synchronous and what is asynchronous. Cuz I can look at like 20, you know, 20 deals in my inbox in the same time that I could have a meeting. So that's like becomes like a lot more. Powerful in like how you spend your time. And then also like one of the things I was thinking about in terms of like calendar management is like our job is to make the best decisions possible. And like depending on how often you are investing, that could be like you're making like one really important decision a month. And so like allowing yourself the time and headspace to make that like one really important decision every month is like more our job than anything else. And I feel like that requires a lot more like time and space than 40 to 60 meetings a week provides.

100%. Yeah, a lot of the epiphanies come in these passive moments, right? Like where I actually have like a 1 or 3-hour block to really think through something and get to logical conclusions and talk to other people and really do deep research. So it's hard to integrate that in when you're just constantly like, you know, pancaking around all these different meetings. And I think that was a cool epiphany. I think this job gets easier the longer you do it. Like everything is this positive flywheel that gets reinforced over time. Like you get to meet more people, they know more people, you, you build a brand, you build reps and trust with people, and they send you deal flow and they're open to hopping on calls and providing perspective. It's easier to be a champion and advocate for your portfolio founders the more you build a brand. So, In a lot of ways, things, things are, are getting easier too, but it just requires patience. And I think patience is, is something I'm, I'm needing to grow in. And so I, and I think that, that aspect was also challenging. Yeah.

I, I wanna talk a little bit more about like the deep work that you've been doing, cuz we talked about it a little bit before the show, but can you expand on maybe like what is an obstacle or challenge that you're moving through in your deep work that you've been thinking about a lot?

Yeah, I mean, it hits every part of my life. Like I, the way I guess I can, I can speak to the philosophy I've adopted. So I've taken this like magnifying glass and on every aspect of my life that I feel isn't working right. Like I'm like, why am I not here yet? Right? Like I really wanna know. And it's, it gets rooted into limiting beliefs, right? So you have to have the hypothesis that you can achieve anything. Everything's infinite, everything's within your reach, and it's just a mindset or a skill gap to get there for the most part. So it was getting to the root limiting beliefs for why I'm not essentially getting what I want. And this is across fitness, this is across, let's say like media, this is across like access to certain founders, like whatever. Like I just had this high bar for every category of my life and I systematically went through and I'll tell you something. I guess like kind of on the more personal side, like I went through and wrote out over 100, maybe close to 200 limiting beliefs around money. And I'm talking like you have to dig so deep to find those things cuz it's so embedded in your subconscious. And what I ended up doing was systematically going through all of that, creating the antidote for it. So writing the reverse and I recorded that via audio. So I have like an hour's worth of audio every morning that I listen to. That's the antidote. to the limiting beliefs that I no longer need or want in my life. So this is like an example of self-work. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah.

I think that's been like a big part. Have you gone through the book The Artist's Way?

Oh man, I've had so many. I need to. That's been on my list for so long.

So funny. I was just, I was just talking to my friend and, well, it was funny because like The Artist's Way came into my life last year in July. At a point where I was like similarly getting recommended it like at least like once a week. And then like the final straw was like, I bought the book and then someone recorded a podcast with me and like sent me a book as a thank you. And it was literally The Artist's Way. And I was like, okay, we get it everyone. I'm gonna read the book. But one of like the exercises in The Artist's Way is going through and like writing down affirmations. And then you write down your like negative blurts that come up internally when you read those affirmations out loud to yourself. And then like the next level of that, what's called shadow work, is identifying by like doing time traveling. So looking back at your life in like 5-year increments, like where is that negative belief coming from? Is it coming from your teachers? Is it coming from a mean kid at school? Is it coming from like your family? And identifying where the negative belief is coming from and kind of like identifying the cause, which I thought was really interesting. So would recommend that book.

I mean, that sounds so insanely aligned with what I ended up like landing on. Like, that's crazy. And I don't know, it feels like, yeah, I mean, it almost feels like I'm kind of this like ChatGPT contextual window where I'm like, okay, let me just like keep re-engineering the prompts and displacing the old prompts. And then over time, like this is the new set of prompts, like operating my life, which is really cool to have that kind of like control and discipline over your mind and.

Yeah.

outcomes and you see things shifting in real time. So this stuff does work. Like, it's not some spiritual woo-woo concept. Like, it's tangible.

Yeah. Wait, I'm curious because now we're on the topic of woo-woo stuff, which is one of my favorite topics. I'm curious, like, what your experience with manifestation has been.

Oh my God. I mean, I— this is like my subject. I'm actually like thinking, how do I integrate manifestation across the portfolio? I've been That's so funny.

I want this specific company.

Yeah. Oh man. I mean, I'm like, should I develop like some sort of like manifestation coaching product across the portfolio? Because I've been experimenting with 5 founders right now. Like, how do I increase their manifestation abilities? And I'm actually getting texts back saying the stuff's actually working.

Wait, no way. I've never thought about doing that with my founders, but like, I do it all the time and Let me tell you, that shit works really well.

It works. It works. I mean, I guess like the TLDR on, on my approach there is just getting clear on what I want and making it so insanely visual. Like, for example, I, I got the car. I'll, I'll just give an example with something like everyone can maybe relate to, 'cause like VC might not, not be so tangible for everyone not in this industry, but like there's always a car someone wants, right?

Yeah.

So there's this car I really wanted and. I pictured what the leather felt like on the seats. Like it, it got that tactile. Like these were the kinds of meditations and visualizations I was doing. And I even embodied a character and I'm like, I kind of just saw myself as like, this is kind of weird, but I saw myself as like Catwoman. And I'm like, what kind of car would Catwoman—

Oh.

Yeah. So I'm like, I'm Catwoman. I wear all black usually. Like now I'm wearing this like psychedelic t-shirt, whatever. But like what? I'm like, what would Catwoman drive? Like, it's only this car. Only. Yeah. So it's—

Love that.

Yeah. So it's like playing around with the language and analogies in your mind to bring it closer to you and having it just be repeat every single day. And then suddenly your filters change for your world and you're able to see the opportunity and pathway solutions to get to that endpoint so much clearer. I think there's so much focus.

Yeah, the focus is huge. And then it's like, okay, there's an opportunity that takes you away from it that might've seemed appealing. I think that's like the biggest thing is like manifestation helps you turn down opportunities that are kind of like mid for you where it's like, oh, this like looks interesting, but like, is it exactly what I want? Like some part of it might not jive with you. And I think that's like, that can be really difficult, but I know in my life when I've made decisions to turn down things that are just like a little bit off, it's like led me to like really good. Juicy stuff afterwards.

Yeah, it's so accurate, right?

Wait, I wanna hear more about your manifestation experience or experiment with your founders. That's so sick.

Yeah, so I guess like it sounds like The Artist's Way randomly, so I swear I didn't read that book, but I walk them through, like I, I listen very closely to the words people choose, right? And even in due diligence, I'm paying attention to if founders use I can and I will language. Like, are they just so sure that they're gonna pull this off? Like, it's It's no question in their mind. So this is the kind of nuance I'm paying attention to with people. It's just like, what word choices do they use? It's a lens into their mind. What order do they say it in? It's indicative of their values. And I'm able to get a sense of where they're getting stuck, like where they feel like a little bit muddy, where they feel limited. And then I throw, I throw quotes at them. I'm like, does this feel like this could be going on in your head? And then they're like, whoa. And with one founder, it was like, I always choke in the last minute. And I kept sensing like choke was the key word. And he's like, I literally think the word choke all the time. And I'm like, we have to clear that. Like, let's get to the root of it.

Crazy.

Right? It's getting in the way of your success. So anyway, we do this variety of different exercises. It took like 15 minutes and he was able to, I guess, release it and shift it for that day. And I'm like, you need to do this repeatedly. And if you really wanna supercharge what you want, It also has to be tied to something kinesthetic. So doing it for someone else as well, like you wanna fundraise, help others fundraise, right? Like karmically, it's, it's great for you. You're, you're almost like, like from a reciprocity standpoint, you're owed that. But also too, you see it happening in front of your eyes and it makes it a lot more visual and real, right? So that's one technique. I, I think you just have to play around with what works for you, but it's like the intensive visualization, getting in, getting.

Yeah.

to the root of what the limiting belief is, recognizing all the ways that that's limited you historically. And in, in some ways it's, it has to have benefited you, otherwise it wouldn't have stayed there. Like that's a, a cope in some way. That's not, that's maybe having you play it safe cuz you're too afraid to, to be big, right? Versus really leaning into your power and how big you are.

You're so cool.

What? You're so cool. I mean, this is like, I was not expecting this podcast to go this direction. I was like, okay, yeah, let's talk, let's talk. Yeah. So this is fun.

I love that. Well, yeah, I was telling you, I often ask like my guests that I have on the show, like what questions that you have for me. Do you have a burning question for me of any sort?

Yeah, I mean, I had a different question going in, but I think, I think this is maybe a more exciting question. Like, what are your top 3 things you're looking to, to manifest in your life today?

Mm-hmm. So interesting. So I, I think like for context, like the top 3 that I had, I had on my wall when I was 19. I had like Forbes Under 30, write a book, launch a venture firm, and I was I was like, okay, I wanna do this by the time I'm 30. And then I was like 23 and I had done all those things and I was like, hello? Like, what else?

And now what?

And I think like now it's been probably like a, a year and a half since that happened. And I think like during this whole time I have been having a really interesting like exploratory phase. Like you talked about the car, I was like, okay, I know I can manifest the car I want, but I don't know which car I want. So I'm like going through like Which card? But so that's like a, like a smaller example, but I think I've been thinking about it a lot in the context of the, the firm that I wanna build. And I think I was just talking to someone about this today, but like sometimes the form of something isn't as important as like the emotion. And so like one of the things that I'm manifesting is that like the founders that we work with at Behind Genius Ventures, like the feeling that they get is like they feel Cozy, like that. I want, I want them to be able to like have the space with me to work through some of the really hard decisions that they will eventually have to make as a founder. And it was really cool because I was thinking about that a lot and I like, I try to bring that energy to the conversations that I have with the founders that I work with. And I just did like an anonymous founder survey and like I got like my founder NPS score was like 93, which was so cool to see.

Wow.

And, but like, I was like, what, what feeling do you, do you feel when you, like, when you work with me or you work with BGV? And, and they were like, the majority of people were all like supported, which I feel is kind of like tangential to cozy. So that's one of the things I'm really manifesting is like, I don't, I think for a long time I was like, I wanna build a billion dollar firm and like, that's really important to me. But honestly, like having the ability to make one founder feel super comfortable making a really challenging decision that might end up in their company being the one that returns the fund. Like that, that for me is like a level of success. Or maybe it's not that company, maybe it's like the next one and I back 'em in the next one. And so that's like one of the things. So making the founders I work with feel cozy and supported. I think the second one is going through, I don't, I don't know. I just, I've, I feel so grateful for the opportunity to get to show up every day and like do this work that I dreamed about when I was like in my bedroom in college that I was, I was like living with 10 girls and I just remembered, I don't know, I wake up every day and I'm just wonderfully grateful for this. So the opportunity to keep doing that and have good health and have my family around and have good balance around my work and my life. But I, it's funny cuz I feel like the, Manifestations that I have today don't feel as far off, and I think I've been more oriented around the feeling versus the form. And then the form ends up being like really cool. I've been like, all right, I wanna bring a person who like really makes me laugh or pushes me to be a better writer or pushes me to think through my investing frameworks. Like that's kind of what I'm manifesting is that feeling, but not the form. That makes sense.

That, that makes total sense. That's so beautiful. And I, I think for your second point, you're already there. Like at the Bridge Conference, you said you wanna be the cool auntie and I'm like, you're, that's, you, you nailed it. Like that's, you're there.

I'm like there in like thigh-high boots and like this like flowy dress. I just like stick out like a sore thumb.

No, boho chic. You nailed that. Yeah, that was awesome.

But yeah, I, I feel like. That, yeah, it's just been fun to play around with that. And I think like it also becomes like a lot easier to embody a feeling cuz a feeling doesn't necessarily have like an endpoint. You're just like, okay, I'm, I'm here in this moment and here's how I want people to feel and here's how I show up because I know, I like, I know how to do that. And then fun stuff happens as a result of that.

Yeah, absolutely. It builds trust and yeah.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

You're doing it all right. Yeah. That's cool.

I would say that it was a work in progress. And as you, as we wrap up our conversation today, which I've had so much fun, I'm excited to share this one. Okay. What if you could go back and tell yourself one piece of advice when you were just starting Conscience? What would it be?

Oh man, that's a long list. I just want one. Only one. Oh wow. This is somehow the hardest question. I would say, I would say, um, God, I mean, this is so cheesy, but it's, it's a marathon, not a sprint. I think I, I put so much pressure on myself to really just like expect results instantaneously, and that's just not how fundraising really works in, in venture. Like you're, you're, you're meeting long-term partners that are gonna be with you. For ideally over a decade and they're making a big decision partnering with you. And they, it's not like investing in a startup where you can underwrite some of the fundamentals, like even early stage, like there's, there's something, something there to evaluate, but it's more or less a blind pool with, with venture. So really being empathetic in that way and, and being patient and yeah, I don't know. I guess like patience. Yeah, patience.

Fine.

Patience.

I love that. Well, Ariana, this was such a pleasure to have you on. I'm so excited to release this, and thank you so much for spending your time with me. Special thank you to producer Riley Jennings and podcast editor Tate Doherty for your help on this episode. If you're listening and you'd like to connect with me, follow me on Twitter or LinkedIn, Paige Finn with 3 N's. Thanks again. listening. I really appreciate it. You can look out for new episodes every Monday at 5 PM PST. And if you'd like to learn more about those strategies and tactics of seasoned institutional investors and rising venture stars, check out our YouTube channel at Seed to Harvest. Also, my TikTok channel is Seed to Harvest, where I post a lot of behind the scenes. Um, and if you like this episode, please rate and review this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. If that's on Apple, Or Spotify. Anyways, thank you so much for listening. I hope you have an awesome rest of your day. Bye.