BGV Portfolio Founder Max Echeverría of Eskuad on Disrupting Field Ops | Ep 72

So in the beginning, we were taking all the ideas and then balancing internally. But now, like, so we have a customer partnership program. So we work with some companies, like tied together so we can get feedback directly. Like the minute I met you, it was completely the opposite. It was like, we just started talking and you asked all your questions that you needed to ask anyway.

Yeah.

But instead of like pitching you with a pitch deck, it was like talking with a friend or something like that.

Welcome back to Seed to Harvest, a podcast with founders, investors, and creators hosted by me, Paige Finn Doherty. I'm the founding partner behind Genius Ventures, and I have a very special treat for you all today. I'm joined by one of our portfolio founders, Max Echeverría of eSquad. Max, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to walk through eSquad and your journey today.

Thanks, Paige. Thanks for having me here. I'm really excited to chit chat for the first time in a podcast with you.

I know, I know. I'm excited. So one of the things that we were talking about before the show is the structure of our conversation today. So we're gonna walk through the problem that you discovered and then how that problem got worse, your insight onto what could be changed in the industry that you're working in today. Your long-term view for the future of Esquad and then where you're at today. So to begin, can you start us off with the problem that you saw? I think one of the aspects that makes Esquad really exciting is that it is a generational pain point for you.

Yeah. Yeah. So the beginning of Esquad, I mean, now looking backwards, I can root it back to the old days when I was a kid. Going to the field with my dad. My dad works in telecom and he was, he ended up being a manager of the field operations of the guys basically setting up optical fiber now, but in those days was copper line. So when I went to the field, basically my dad needed a lot of supervisors in the field, in the job sites, making sure that everything was where it should be, that the systems were in place, then like whatever tool was already there so they can operate this as much as way possible. But then I experienced it myself when I was in the university. I used to run basically field trips to Argentina. I'm Chilean, so I live in the south of Chile and we sent basically buses with students from high school to Argentina's Patagonia.

What?

And I needed to travel with them as a coordinator of the field. And then I needed to report back to anxious parents on the status of each one of the kids. I don't know, like the inventory use to my boss, how many students did X activities so we can negotiate with vendors for the next season. So we needed to collect all that data in the field and Since I was in another country and roaming wasn't the best in the Patagonia, I needed to take a lot of notes, get back to the hotel. But think of a trip like mine was, we started at 8:00 AM, went to the field, do outdoor activities, whatever they were, and then we went back to the city and I took the students to clubs. So the, the shift was from 8:00 AM until like 3:00 AM. And I needed to create the reports at 3, 3:30 until like 4, and then try to sleep. So it was a really big pain for me. And that, that's when I experienced it myself. But then when I, I'm an industrial engineer by background, and when I was doing my internship, I did it in a mine pit, in a copper mine pit, which is huge in Chile. And they had the same issue. So then it, it became, it It became a bigger problem that for me was relevant to solve because there were millions of people doing those activities on a daily basis, trying to get some sleep or trying to get some time to spend with their kids or whatever. So it became a bigger problem when I was passing through the university and I discovered that it happened in the best and most efficient bike pit in the world, which is Minera Escondida, operated by BHP Billiton.

Yeah. And I think, so you experienced the problem across a variety of different applications. So one was going to the field with your dad as a young kid and then leading field trips as like a field coordinator, and then again in the mine. And I think it'd be helpful to share your background before E-Squad as well. So for context for our listeners, Max built and sold the largest startup accelerator in Chile. Can you tell us a little bit about the transition from that to Squad or getting the idea for eSquad? Yeah.

So when I was in the university, I started my first startup that failed, but then I created, like, think of the context in Chile, in the south of Chile, I live in a city called Concepción. Most of the VC And all the stories that you can look for in Google about VC and startups in Chile, most of them are centered in Santiago, the capital city. And it was worse like 10 years ago. So when we started the first company, we couldn't manage it. It was mainly because we didn't know how to sell. We had a great product, but we were like young and some kind of Like a little bit stupid on thinking that we just build it and the users will come and it didn't happen. But then because of that lack of investments and things like that, but having the team to develop stuff, we created a company to serve bigger companies with development, like coding solutions for them. And we saved the money so we can invest our own money in our ideas after. So I was doing that. And then I created an accelerator at the university, not at the university, but for students. Um, because when we were students, we lack of mentorship, we lack of help. Some faculties were eager to help us, but they weren't experiencing what we were trying to do. So we created this accelerator based on mentors, other founders like me that have achieved something and can help the first steps. Of students starting a, a new idea or whatever. And then it became the best accelerator at college level, and we received awards by the Ministry of Economy. Georgia Tech started working with us, so it became like a huge thing, and the university liked it, so they ended up buying it. And it's part of the School of Engineering now, but it runs all the tech startups for the university. And when we became bigger and the university bought it, then we also started leading efforts at other universities. At the end, it became the accelerator model for 40% of the students of engineering in the country.

That's incredible.

So it became huge. And when I was running that, because of working at the university, some companies typically go to the university to look for a solution for whatever problem they have or to showcase their issues so they can run open innovation programs. So being there, I started realizing that the same problem that I found myself as a young kid, then as a student at the university, then as intern, was being showcased by companies in forestry. in other areas to the university looking for solutions. And at that time I was also doing my master's degree and one of my classmates was a manager, a deputy manager of operations in forestry. And they, he and another classmate explained to me the nuances of the problem. And it was the same problem that I described before, but adding on top like constraints of quality of internet service. Connectivity issues all across the operations, but also low-tech training of the users, like people that doesn't even finish high school, but they're super great at, I don't know, like trimming trees or planting trees, things like that. And we needed to create a solution that they can use and replace a notepad because they typically take notes on a note.

Mm-hmm.

So that's where, while I was at the university and I was doing other stuff, I started to find out that the same problem still exists like 10 years after I saw it for the first time. So it was like, there's an opportunity here. There's a lot of so-called solutions, but they're not actually solutions if they're still running on pen and paper.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was really interesting. I actually, I don't know if I've shared this with you. This is, um, from from like our reflection after our conversation and reference calls. But a couple of the things that we thought a lot about were like, one, that you have a very like personal, generationally felt pain point with this problem that you are trying to solve along with the educational background in the field of engineering. And then also the, like your product serves field workers and often in verticals like Maritime operations, forestry, port operations, miners. And I think like one of the things that really stood out is there in many of the industries that you are catering to, things are still very much being done on pencil and paper, which just like blew my mind in our conversations. But I guess like one of, one of the risks that we thought about as we were making the investment was like, what happens when like Internet, like, is internet connectivity being ambiguous? Like, how do you think about building around that?

Yeah, so because of the, like, one of the differentiators we have is the Magic Sync that enables to operate the UI regardless of internet service and then sync smartly depending on the different signal. So because of that approach and because we needed to send small packages as Like as efficient as possible with low bandwidth. When we have better signal, we operate faster than the other tools because it operates locally in the phone anyways, and it's syncing in the second, in the background. So when we are compared directly to solutions that operates, that operate always connected, which it would be the case with UVQOs, internet everywhere and all of that. We will still operate faster, which is not that relevant when you have internet all the time. But the experience is, was the other constraint. Like we needed to have like the best experience for people that are nor— not aware of how to use software tools. So because our approach was to replace the notepad, we created 2 different products. Like one that's super complex for managers to set up everything, but one super simple, straightforward for a person that doesn't know how to use like a solution harder than sending an email or sending text.

Yeah. I, I love that, that like one of the things that we think about is like the customer empathy. And I think that's one of the things that also really stood out in our conversations was you had this. Split between the manager persona and then also the field worker persona. And you took the, like the same first principles approach to building product, but you built them very specifically for those 2 different use cases with a backend that syncs really well together. So I think that's really special. So I would love if you could talk a little bit about your vision for eSquad in the next 5, 10 years. What does success look like?

First of all, getting rid of pen and paper in all the operations, but not because pen and paper is bad, it's because it's bad for the person in the field because they need to transcribe data or even if they're using some software that doesn't sync well, then they end up transcribing data. But I mean, that's the reason why customers start to use the product. Most of the time, but when they experience the savings and the benefits and all that is at the other layer when we already have all the data collected and we eliminate tasks for transcribing information for compliance or transcribing information for HR systems or transcribing information for finances. So once everything's collected in our platform. All the reports are shipped automatically to different places and we sync with different systems. So based on that idea, I see EastQuine, first of all, getting rid of pen and paper in the operations themselves, but also making safer operations and at the same time offering a better stewardship of the whole operation. So it has a climate action Mm-hmm. Angle, I would say, because basically if you look at the markets, like people is more aware now than before, than if you have well-operated operations, you'll have a product that's friendlier with the environment. So that's why if you look at, I don't know, McDonald's, you look at the box and it has an FSC, you Yeah. Stamp on it. And that means that the whole product came from a well-produced tree in somewhere that doesn't— where like the operator didn't affect an aquifer or didn't kill like an endangered species. But to keep track of the whole thing, there's a lot of pen and paper auditors, supervisors involved, and eSquad helps them streamline the whole process. making the operators more efficient and more eager to comply with all the regulations because then it's not an additional task. It's just the same task and they can comply with it.

It like simplifies that climate action, which is really exciting. I think that was also something I learned a lot is like the, just natural resources in general have been very, like, there's been a lot of regulation and compliance aspects to working in that field. But those are additional aspects that are still done on pen and paper and transcribed. So I think that it will, like eSquad will really help support companies to simplify their climate action, which is really exciting.

Yeah. And at the end for us, like the phone is just another sensor. So we make it as simple to use for a person so it can behave as a sensor that it's automatically collecting data. So at the end, it's about collecting data of remote places and streamlining all the compliance, stewardship, and the operations themselves where, where the companies get the benefit.

Can you, so we talked a little bit about your vision for Esquad in the future. Can you share maybe some of the really challenging parts of your journey in building Esquad? So now we've like understood the problem and your longer-term vision, but what does it look like day to day? What are things that are challenging that you've been through?

In the beginning, I code the first, I, I also code, I, I code since I was like 10, 11. The first product was a product that I built myself. It was a basic one, so it worked, but it wasn't the best. So in the beginning, getting the trustworthiness from the customer side on a product that's being shipped for them, I was still like a young guy alone.

Yeah.

With a product. So it wasn't like a company with ISO 9001 and SOC 2 certifications providing them with a solution. So getting the trustworthiness first was key. But because of that, we end up like, we always look for workarounds. So what if we offer the product for free? Like, would you like to try it? Yeah, sure. I can try it. And then they try it and then once they try it, they give us feedback. So then we implemented that.

Yeah.

And because of that approach, we end up getting the first customer because they like it. They wanted more things built on top of the basic prototype. So because we didn't have funding, we told them, hey, can you pay upfront part of it? And I will get another one to pay the other part. So I went with the prototype and I told them, hey, the first customer, which is a well-known brand. is willing to pay for a piece of this, and I know you needed the other, like this, the same piece. So would you be open to pay the other part and we can build it for both of you? And they said yes. So then we end up selling, I remember it was like, I would say like around like $20,000, $22,000. And with those $20-something We shipped the first version of it, but then after it was done, because it was working well, it was getting stickiness on the user side. They decided to pay on a monthly basis as a, as a, I guess it's just, yeah.

And like, as a version service stickiness, cuz that was also something that we thought a lot about our investment. Can you like talk a little bit about like how sticky eSquad is? Cuz I think really stood out to us.

Yeah, I mean, we don't have so far, fingers crossed, I'm gonna keep it that way. We have had 100% retention. Like all the users, once they start using it, they keep using it because it was the first time they weren't cheated with a solution that doesn't work in the field. So, and also because we're building it with them, like, you It's not like we're coding with them, but in the beginning it was like talking to them and trying it out with them. But then now at the stage we are, it's a platform. So it's themselves that build it on top of our platform. So they feel it's a product that they built for themselves and for their team. So that also adds another layer of, I would say, market protection.

Yeah.

Like, like a barrier of entry because they like it, they love it because they built it.

Yeah. And it's, I think That's such a magical feedback loop when you as a, as a user of software can give feedback, especially if it's maybe something that you're like really need or are frustrated by, and then it gets incorporated by the team and you're like, that was such a magical experience.

Yeah. In the beginning it was exactly like that. Now we're adding some small things, but they are, those are their ideas. So they feel like, yeah, I built that.

Yeah. It's like still in the product. How, how do you think about like, as the company scales, incorporating customer feedback? 'Cause I, I think one thing I was talking with my executive coach about, and I've thought about this as like behind Genius has scaled, is like, how do you find the grain of truth in the feedback? Because it might not always be, they know what the problem is and they suggest a solution, but the solution might not be like the, like given the context of the problem, the best way forward, but it gives you like context for what the problem is. How do, yeah, how do you think about like filtering feedback?

Yeah, so. In the beginning, we were taking all the ideas and then balancing internally. But now, like, so we have a customer partnership program. So we work with some companies, like tied together so we can get feedback directly. And I manage some of those relationships directly, personally. So I became better at asking why, like, A lot of times in the first time they tell me something. So for example, hey, I have this idea that could like help us do X. And I ask, why do you need that idea to be implemented? No, because I'm doing Y. And oh, and what's the reason behind that Y? And they explain something. And then I ask, why are you thinking of the solution this way? And then I started asking why, why, why. Yeah. And they come up with insights. Basically, they tell me, yeah, at the end is because we need to comply with this regulation and it's taking more time to whatever, like input that information piece in the form. And then we discover that it may be solved with something we already have. And I try to show them that. And it's most of the time it can be achieved with a workaround with the product we already have. But then once we know what are the nuances of the process, we come with ideas to solve it with the design team, with the developers, and then we talk to the users and we show them instead of asking them why, no, what do you think about this idea? It is like we show them the idea, like, can you try it out? And they tell us, no, it's not working because of whatever. Why, why, why, why?

I love it.

And that works. And because we have these agreements of customer partnership, they are open to share.

Yeah. And it's like helpful for them in their business. 'Cause if it were, if eSquad works better for them, then their business also operates more efficiently. So it's a win-win for them to provide customer feedback to you. I guess like looking back at yourself a couple years ago as an entrepreneur, what, what advice would you have like starting out?

I mean, sometimes I get asked that question, but it's typically, I mean, I'm not sure if it applies to everybody, but for me it, it has always been a matter of go try it and figure it out while you're doing it. So in the beginning, I, I mean, I knew how to code in Java, but because I was playing around when I was a kid, but the reason why I learned that, it was because I wanted to Mm-hmm. Tweak a video game. So I learned how to code. And if you go farther now, it sounds like, oh yeah, but this guy knows how to code. This guy knows, I mean, yeah, he speaks a foreign language. But all of that was like, I was trying to build a website first. And in the 2000s when I was a kid, I needed to like look for blogs that explained how to do that. YouTube wasn't around. So I was reading blogs in English mostly, so I needed to learn English. So I learned English to learn that. And now it is the same, like, yeah, from Java to the SDK in Android, I needed to learn some stuff. So I learned how to do it and I built it. It was a poorly done product, but it worked basically at the idea stage. And then we went try with the users and then they gave us feedback. So it's a matter of trying.

Yeah.

And looking for ways to doing, like building or doing.

I guess it would be interesting to hear from your perspective, like what, what has your experience been like working with me as an investor from kind of like the point that you met me behind Genius till now?

I mean, in the beginning was like typical conversation, like, yeah, I'm going to talk to an investor. I'm going to try to pitch her like the best way possible. But it, like the minute I met you, it was completely the opposite. It was like we just started talking and you asked all your questions.

Yeah.

That you needed to ask anyway. But instead of like pitching you with a pitch deck, it was like talking with a friend or something like that, like for the first time. And then after you invested for us, it has been a matter of like, hey Paige, can you help us with Customer feedback, for example, or may you help us get a better email campaign, campaign built. So it's a matter of like a relationship with somebody, you know, that's working with you, even though you're not working 100% with us because you have a portfolio. It is a, it is a thing of like, I just feel that I can just call you and ask for help. And the other way around too, like if you need help, I know, I know we're here. I love that.

Is there, I guess like one of the questions I'd be curious to understand is like how out of the other investors that you met, what stands out about like me or our firm as well?

I mean, I believe we're lucky in terms of the company we heard because you came from Outlander and Chris and Matt from C2V are kind of the same. I just talked to you all around. You're super hands-on and ready to help. And, but I don't, I don't think it's the same for all of the founders. And maybe it's because you have worked together, like Blaine had worked before with C2 Ventures and had worked with you.

Yeah.

And Blaine invested first. So we end up working with the same kind of people, like that is eager to help and stuff. But when I talk to my friends who are founders, sometimes it's like, They're not fighting, but it's like, like different positions. And instead of like working together, they're like trying to convince the other. In our case, it's like we're working together, sitting on the same side. This is the problem. Let's try to solve it.

Yeah, I love that. I think there's like this analogy of, I, I think like from when I started, that was something that was really important to me is like, as the, as the founder, how can I help support you to like get to the bottom of A problem and just like talk through that. 'Cause I think a lot of the times it's just the process of having a conversation and you have the answer in your own head and I'll just keep doing the same thing that you do to your customers being like, why, why, why? And then like you come to the answer through that conversation, which I think is, has been really cool to see what, like, I like using that technique and it brings me a lot of joy to help people like. Talk through the challenges that they're having in their companies. Yeah, I guess, I think, what, what questions am I not asking you?

I don't know, like, we're doing well. So, like, currently the company is growing.

Oh yeah, are you hiring? Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah, good question. Yeah, so we're currently hiring a front-end developer and a DevOps developer. And we decided to pause on the marketing hirings because I discovered for a product-led growth strategy, most, most of the marketing—

Yeah, it's like product and like the incorporation of it. Yeah. That, yeah.

Yeah. And also like I'm doing most of the SEO and all of that, and it is something that I know how to do. Like I didn't know I knew. But I know how to do it now that I learned. It's just a matter of engineering and coding. Cool.

Yeah. So if you're listening to this and eSquad sounds interesting, I'll drop Max's contact information in the show notes. Does that, that work? Cool.

Sure, sure.

And then, yeah, that works. I guess, do you have any questions for me before we hop off? Anything you're curious about?

Yeah. What did you see in us when you decided to invest? You, you said like, Yeah. Those were the highlights, but at the end, it's not a matter of the highlights. It's like, it's a mix of that.

Yeah. It was interesting. I was like in preparation for this conversation, I was reviewing some of the reservations and risks. And I think there were a handful that I think about. And of course, like in any early stage startup, you're going to have risks. And my whole job is to drive risk-adjusted returns to our LPs and have a lot of founder trust and support you all in your journey. So. I take like thinking about risks very seriously. So the first is, one is, and, and I think this was a risk that we thought about before we had our reference calls. And so oftentimes, like, we'll think about the risks and then those are like what we focus on in the reference calls. So for example, your professional background has, was mainly in Chile and you're new to the US talent pool. And so, Yeah. Like, how does that reflect on attracting and retaining talent in the US. But when I did our reference calls, the caliber of people that you were able to bring on, both from a team perspective and an advisor perspective, were like, there's people who I, I would say like understand network dynamics and like will continue searching the network for like the best node to have on their team. And it, I felt very strongly in my reference conversations. That, that was something you understood and it was just a matter of executing on because you had done it before in Chile. And so I think that that was one of the risks in how we evaluated it. The second one was competition from larger enterprise-scale companies such as SAP, which may already have a distribution advantage. But I think one of the things that they didn't, that they lacked is you have such a deep sense of customer empathy, like that why, why, why. And also, if you look at like larger scale enterprise companies, a lot of them have like super steep implementation fees. They're not like simple for field workers to use. And because you had had experience both like seeing your dad like working on the field and then also like being a manager in your own right as like a field supervisor of these trips, I feel like you deeply understood like the customer aspect of that in a way that larger enterprise-scale companies that are, have like complex products didn't. And then I think one of the other ones was like the target market that you're serving in the natural resource space may not be apt or eager for technological change and innovation that they view as disruptive to their standard policies and procedures. And again, this is like something that we thought through prior to some of our like reference calls and digging deeper into the customer data that you provided. It was very clear after our conversation that Although a lot of the market that you serve hasn't, I, I would say like doesn't use software tools in every aspect of their business, they really struggled with the amount of time that it took to do it manually. And it wasn't like, it wasn't that they weren't looking for a solution or weren't open to using one. It was just like the right solution had not presented itself. And then the last one was. Go-to-market can be challenging if you're serving different verticals. But I, I think like your unique go-to-market strategy of working with a lot of like the associations is really interesting because then the associations that govern different verticals, whether it's like port operations or forestry, can like lead trainings of the different members of their associations, which makes that go-to-market strategy like much more efficient. And I think the overall decision was, I think that you're super sharp and gritty and resilient and have just like, you figure out how to do things if you have a problem, like you described with learning Java to build your video games or learning English to read the blogs. Like whenever there is a, an obstacle in your way to solving a problem, you go through it. And then also that you are like well-educated in the, in the industry and have like an incredible depth of knowledge in the field. And then coupling that with good traction and product stickiness at the earliest stages and the size of the opportunity at hand, it's a really massive market. Those are some of the reasons that was like our overall investment decision. Yeah. Yeah.

Cool. That was pretty thoughtful.

Thanks. I, I try to be like that. I think it's, yeah, it's fun too, cuz it's, it's nice to like share this, like our thought process with you as well, cuz I would say we've We were pretty transparent in our like process in terms of what we were asking for, but I don't know that we shared like the summarized thing. And I guess I'm always curious when I speak with RLPs, I'm like, why did you invest in us? Like, not to be like, talk, like talk about it a little bit, but I'm also like, would love to know, would love for you to say it out loud. So yeah, happy, happy to share that. And yeah, this was so wonderful. I'm so happy that we got to have this conversation, and I'm really excited to put this episode out. Max, thank you so much for joining us. And a very special thank you to Seed to Harvest podcast editor Tate Doherty for his amazing work on this episode.