TQ Ventures Investor Jana Iris on Developing Community Experiences | Seed To Harvest Ep43

Woohoo. All right, welcome back to Seed to Harvest, a podcast with founders, creators, and investors about their stories, tactics, and frameworks. Today I'm joined by Yana Iris. She's a coffee lover, startup advisor, and investor. Since 2008, she's been an early employee of startups including Engine Yard, New Relic, and HashiCorp, focused on building their developer communities. In 2022, she switched gears into angel investing and advising companies like Spacelift, Fermion Technology, SuperTokens, and CloudQuery. Now she invests alongside her team at TQ Ventures. Yana, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

Thanks so much for having me.

Of course. So we were chatting a bit before the show and you mentioned that you started your career in 2008, which was a really rough recession period. And you mentioned that 80% of your graduating class didn't have a job after graduation. So for those listening that might resonate with that experience, what was it like graduating and trying to build your career? In a bear market, we all had such like hopes and dreams, right?

And you, you go to college and, uh, take these classes, right? These like business classes that teach you how to be an executive and think about supply chain and, and think about like business models. And you know, you're, you're taught these things that like get you so excited for the future. And yeah, we all, like, I graduated in 2008 during kind of like the worst part of the recession. And so All of us were like, oh, none of us had jobs, right? We all had the stu— like all had like college debt and we're like, well, what do we do with that? And so yeah, it was, it was, it was tough. It was, it was tough to kind of start, start your career and, and not know where to go next. So I ended up moving home. I grew up in, in Northern California. I grew up in Berkeley. So I just went home and I was like, okay, I'm gonna figure it out. And I ended up getting my first My first startup job. It was, it was the only industry really hiring. And I just, I started in a customer support role, customer support and sales. Um, and it just, I got, I kind of got my first exposure to tech. Again, it was, it was hard work. It wasn't glamorous. Like I had to go into a job every day. You know, I had to, I was commuting from my parents' house. I like, you know, it was like an hour each way. And that was just, you know, the first 2 years was just a 9 to 5 and But it, but it was a job and it, it really kind of got me exposure into, you know, the, the tech world. It was like an online advertising company. And then that, that was just kind of where I really started to like make friends and, and meet people. And then got a job offer to do like sales. Then I switched into community at a company called Engine Yard. It's no longer around, but it's, it was a competitor to, it was actually a competitor to Amazon Web Services. We had our own colo and then a competitor to Heroku. And that's really where I, I got my exposure to kind of like the open source world. And that's where I really kind of learned about the value of community building. And again, this was in like 2010, so this was before community was a buzzword. Yeah. And so it was, it was an engineer, just like a really pivotal company that I wish more people remembered. It was at like, it came around at the height of like the popularity of Ruby on Rails, like the programming language and framework. And a lot of, a lot of like well-known companies back then were, were written with that framework. So you had like GitHub, New Relic, Bleacher Report, Groupon, and they were all hosted on Engine Yard, right? So I got to, through that second job, just became friends with a lot of really great people. And I think that's, if I could give anyone advice, and especially now 15 years later, is just like, talk to everyone, be friends with everyone, treat people really well, build relationships, don't be transactional. Because again, as I've now kind of made this a career switch a bit this year. And also, like, I haven't had a resume or applied for a job in 10 years because again, it's just like when you're good to people and helpful, people remember you and want to kind of support you along the way.

Yeah, I think starting out in customer success, it gives you so much exposure to like all sorts of different companies, especially one that's more infrastructure related. We were chatting a bit before the show, but I had a very similar experience at WorkOS where We were seeing all of these companies that they might announce their like latest rounds like 6 months, but you could see how quickly they were growing. And so I'm sure that you had a similar experience in terms of like, oh wow, people are like really scaling up on Engine Yard. Like these are the companies that are growing really quickly and you meet the execs when they're like, hey, how do we like, how do we implement this? Or like, there's so many things breaking inside the company. And it's, I, I just like, I thought it was really interesting. So is there anyone that you've stayed in touch with from those early customer support days that Has turned up in your life in a surprising way?

So many. Well, I have a really fun story. So Groupon was, so Groupon came to us and they were, back then they were Pivotal. Like they were just like a political website that they spun into Groupon. Oh, wow. And like, and we just watched from like, as we had to set up like a whole dedicated team to them, they like, they scaled so fast that by, by like the height of like when they were still hosting us, they were paying us like a million dollars a month. Right. For like professional services support. Oh my God. 'Cause they just like the demand of Groupon. So it's, it's cool, right? It's cool to have seen kind of, um, the scale of these companies, like you said, from like the customer success and, and sales side of things. Yeah. But a lot of people, I think, you know, I met Mitchell Hashimoto when he was still in college, right? The founder of HashiCorp. We sponsored him to work on Vagrant, right? The first open source tool that he launched that like, you know, kind of started HashiCorp, but NGR did a lot of really cool things for like the, the open source ecosystem and particularly like pushing forward like the Ruby on Rails ecosystem. So, and that's kind of where I like learned my framework for community building, especially, uh, for developer communities. So we sponsored every meetup and conference, which is like a given now. We had an open source, an open source like kind of project program. where we would sponsor open source contributors and, and, and projects. We would hire open source contributors. So we hired people like Yehuda Katz and Evan Phoenix and Brian Ford, right? To, and so, so we did a lot of things like that. We were really focused on education workshops. So again, those were, you know, that was 2010 when there wasn't a real framework yet for how to do community building, but we were already doing it because it came naturally.

And like the startup ecosystem, was smaller. And then even like, regardless of what size that you were internally, you had like in a community role, you were interfacing with like a ton of people in the ecosystem.

Yeah.

And obviously, like, if you're sponsoring them to do their different open source projects, they're obviously gonna have like a lot of goodwill towards you doing that. Um, so I, I would love to hear more about, I, you had a recent post on the 5 pillars, uh, building developer communities, which would be knowledge sharing, education, trust building, genuine human connections, and designing with empathy. I'd love to spend some time diving deeper on what you mean by design with empathy. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Do you wanna like talk a bit more about that?

It's so interesting cuz I, I thought that these 5 pillars of community building were unique to kind of HashiCorp, but I actually think it applies to just like any person building communities, especially like, uh, developer communities. So I always think like the most important pillar Especially if you're kind of introducing a new workflow, new way of working, new kind of like terminology, is, is the education piece, right? It's, it's, it's, it's those blog posts, it's those workshops, it's the training, it's the tutorials, right? It's really kind of, I think that is like the most important kind of like foundation of like, how do you educate people on kind of this like new product that you're launching?

Yeah.

Right. So, so they kind of go, so it's like education and then knowledge sharing is the second pillar. And I call that more of kind of like peer-to-peer knowledge sharing. 'Cause again, what validates your, your kind of your model or your product or tool, whatever you're building, is when other people talk about you. So how do you kind of like, so at HashiCorp, right, we spend a lot of time, how do we make it, create avenues that make it really easy for our community to talk to each other, to share. To give talks, to write guest blog posts, right? And then like—

Wait, how did you think about like the guest blog post thing? I think that's super interesting. You are like relatively early to that as well from a developer community perspective, right?

Yeah, it's so interesting. I was having this like debate the other day on LinkedIn and I sometimes I'm like, before I'm going to bed, I should just put my phone away. But the, the open, you're probably laughing. At some point, I don't know, at some point I just like—

I'm just picturing you like getting ready for bed, just in a fight on LinkedIn.

As I had like my face mask and just, you know, putting on my like lotion, getting ready for bed.

I can't believe they would say that.

But I was like, this person was getting stuck on these nuances. And then at some point I was like, tomato, tomato. And then I just like closed my book. I, I was just like, I was like, this is not the best way to end an argument. But I was like, I can't keep— Yeah. And the thing we were debating about is, is like this, I know. is the open source model and like the open core model, right? And HashiCorp was what, HashiCorp wasn't the first, right? Like open sourcing software has been a thing since like people have been programming, right? Like the ethos of is—

Yeah.

The ethos is sharing and collaborating together. Like that's been around forever. You have leaders like Red Hat, right? Where that were MongoDB, Chef, right? And so you already have kind of You didn't have a lot of, of people like that had kind of successful models. I think HashiCorp is a really great model of really penetrating the open source market and then figuring out how to monetize. But again, it, it wasn't easy for us. And so what this person was debating with me on of like, oh, 'cause, 'cause what I mentioned is the open core model, it, it is great, right? It, it like, it helps you build community, get exposure.

Um, wait, yeah. What is like open core versus open source?

I, I, I think they're, for me, they're interchangeable and I, I seem to interchange them. So open core is when just like a core piece of like your technology is open source, but then, but the rest of it is closed source, right? That they pay for you.

Got it.

Like, or pay for that. So, so HashiCorp, right? All of Vault was open source, but then we had Vault Enterprise, which had very different kind of features that were, that were more kind of targeted for enterprise users and open source, the open source version was more for kind of smaller individual developers.

Got it.

Kind of how I think about it. But the, what this person was debating with me on is, 'cause I was saying a lot of times you end up competing with your open source version of your tool, right? So, so even at HashiCorp, right, we were, one of our biggest competitors was the Terraform open source version, right? That, that, that like Terraform Enterprise was competing with. And so he was debating with me saying that that means you didn't think through your, your business plan, right? And I was just like, how, when you're buying—

Excuse me, sir, did you see our $15 million IPO?

I, I was trying not to like— Yeah, so he was basically saying that anyone that is competing with like their, their open source version means that they didn't plan through, like, thoroughly think through their business model. But I was just like, we are 5, 10 people and all of a sudden, right? Like, it's something really takes off. It's not that you didn't, like, you just sometimes don't know what to expect, right? And sometimes you're like, okay, this is, you just don't know like what, what parts of it you can charge for. And so I was like, would you say HashiCorp failed as a business? Right? I'm like, We just passed, like they just passed $250 million in ARR and IPO'd at, you know, $15 billion. Would you say, right? So anyways, and then I think he kept going back.

You were trying to avoid the scoreboard.

But then he kept going back. Well, it's like open source has been a thing since the '80s. Well, I was like, well, it even went farther back than that. But again, like there aren't a lot of models, right? And I think everyone now, or a lot of companies are taking kind of like the open source model to gain traction and then building kind of like a PaaS or a paid version, but it, it's tough, right? It's tough. And, and HashiCorp's a great model of a company that did it successfully, but it wasn't easy to get there, right? It was like a 10, 10-year journey type thing.

Yeah. I remember like at Workwest, like what turning on monetization was like because we were like a free product for probably 9 to 11 months and turning on monetization was like very interesting. So I'd be curious to hear what it was like when you were at HashiCorp and You made that switch.

But look, I don't know if you saw that announcement today from Gitpod. So Gitpod, they have like an open source version of, of their, of their product, and then they also have a hosted version. So today they just announced that they're no longer gonna be supporting kind of like the self-hosted version. So that's a great—

Wow.

And then they're like turning on kind of like, like payments and, and adding more features to the hosted version. So that's a great example of a company that just today announced, hey, we need to figure out how to be a, a business, which I'm really curious to see how the community reacts, but I think that was a smart move on their part.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, they have like 750K developers on the platform too, so I feel like that's a, that'll be an interesting switch. Oh, I feel like it, yeah, I guess like what is that monetization turn-on experience? been like for you in like different roles that you've been on? Because you've been early, so I'm assuming that you've like gone through that switch at maybe a couple different companies.

Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I was an expert in that. I don't, it's a, yeah, that's a, it's a tough one to figure out kind of pricing. Well, but I, it goes into all of it, right? Product market fit.

Yeah.

How, how do you like charge? Yeah. But that's not something that is my wheelhouse. Hmm.

That's super cool. Well, I wanna go back a bit into your journey. So we were also chatting about it, but you studied art history at John Cabot in Rome, which is where I studied abroad in my junior year. So I'd love to hear like what you took away from that experience. And then have you gone back to Rome since then?

I have not gone back to Rome, which is, but I've been to Italy a few times now. I, I, I really need to. I feel like that was like such a special moment. Yeah, I think. It's interesting, right? I'm not, I like, I'm technically non-technical, right? Like I, I kind of like love using that term where I don't have a CS degree, I'm not a programmer, but yet I've been able to have a really successful career in like working at early stage tech companies and building developer communities. And I love that I have this. I, I'm like, I love that I have this like creative art background. I love that I. Love music. I love that. Like at some point, like I added like experiential marketing to my title. So yeah, I, I think, 'cause when you think about building community experiences, and this is something that I talk about a lot where it's just like, yes, you can kind of put together the programs, but they need to be connected to your brand. Right. And, and you, I talk about a lot about how do you bring life to a brand? And so again, I love that I have this kind of like marketing, storytelling, art background, because I, I apply a lot of that to a lot of the community programs that I would launch. And, and, you know, so that was something that like, I'm currently, oh my gosh, I'm currently working on a blog post right now because it's a, it's exactly a year since HashiCorp went public, uh, December 9th of last year. And so I was part of a small team that got to work on like preparing the company to go public. I didn't do any of the financials, corp comms, any of that. But I got to lead kind of like the experiential, like what we did for employees and what we did on site. But it's been really fun to reflect on because I think my background through the elements that I would add, I, I, I made the brand playful and I made the brand, I brought the brand to life, right? So I would be, I would create things kind of like, like we would have Spotify playlists and we would have music and, and coffee is a big part of our culture. So we.

Mm-hmm.

would have Hashi Cafés at all of our conferences that started back in 2015, right? When I started there. So literally in Times Square, we had a Hashi Café, right? Like, so—

That's awesome.

Like the morning of, right? As we were there, every, anyone that was in Times Square could go and get a coffee at the Hashi Café. And we had like, we had plants and, and I would add a lot of like art and, and cool elements and visual elements to all of our, all of our stuff. And I think I mean, HashiCorp would've been successful either way, but I really, I think I did a really good job of, of making the brand like relatable and humanizing the brand. Yeah.

Like brought magic too, right? It's like, oh, like kind of like, let's, you know, like humanizing the brand and being like, okay, let's step back. Let's remember like these are all fantastic people working here, you know, regardless of what we're working on.

We wanna like support the community and build relationships outside of You know, and that goes back to your kind of the 4th pillar, right? So it's like, it's like the 5 pillars. So the first one was, you know, education, knowledge sharing, trust building, which is obvious, and then design with empathy, right? So that was kind of a pillar that I ended up kind of coming up with at some point, but it's, it's exactly what we've been talking about, right? Where understanding who the person is at the end of the experience that you are creating. If you are sending an email. Why, like, don't have it full of marketing jargon. Speak to a person like a human, right? Make it easy to read. And like, some of our highest performing emails were just plain text emails. Like, I don't know why people make the email templates so overly designed where you're like, what is this? Right? Or design with empathy. When someone walked into any conference we did, well, if it's in the morning, we shouldn't be blasting techno and we should have a bit lower lighting and we should have people happy greeting them and the coffee and food should be accessible. So that's what I mean by designing with empathy. I don't just mean kind of like colors, logos, accessibility.

I mean, yeah, it's just like remembering the person on the other side of the experience that you're designing. It's not like, here's our like TAM market, you know, anonymous people. It's like, oh, who's like the person that we're going to see coming in the door who like needs to wake up and probably wants some food and doesn't want to get You know, like very bright fluorescent lights in their face. Okay.

And I always joke, another blog post I'm working on is I, I, I, I have so many things I want to write and I just need more time. But I designed a lot of the HashiCorp experiences based on Burning Man as well. Looks like something like, um, yeah.

Wait. Yeah. Talk about that. Also, I went to an event in Miami hosted by a company called Pew Pew Events. I don't know if you've heard of them, but you should definitely check them out. It was like some crazy. I went to Lightning in a Bottle. It was like very similar to that, like DIY art. Super cool. I'll send it to you after. But yeah, talk to me more about like how you incorporated Burning Man, like principles, philosophies, design into HashiCorp events. I would love to hear about that. I, it's so funny.

I listened to the Kate Cole episode and so we're both like, we're not clichés, but we really enjoy going to Burning Man. Yeah, I've been going to Burning Man since 2013. I just love it. Again, I'm like a hippie from California and I just, I just deeply love connecting with people. And so for me, it was always always kind of like, it is what it is and what it's become now, but it, it's still one of the largest kind of experiments of community building and bringing people together in person based on 10 guiding principles. And I think that's, I think that's a really cool concept. And also just kind of that it's based on gifting and, and how like the layout of it. So, so I would, so there's a bunch of elements I would incorporate, but even kind of how I would design Our conferences, I would, I would set them up kind of how Burning Man was laid out where I would have—

Okay.

Tell me more about that. That's awesome. So there was, there would be, so Burning Man has center camp, right? So Burning Man's kind of set up on this grid where you have these streets and you have all the camps and then you have kind of center camp, which is kind of your anchor. And then you have the burn and then you have all the art like in Deep Playa. So I would, so we would have like the HashiCorp zone would be, I would, I would refer to as center camp. And then all around we would have these rings. So like, so we would have the HashiCorp zone where you can come and find like core contributors and the experts and the engineers that build the tools you love. And like, so we would have kind of like the, the HashiCorp zone in the center, and then we would have like the Hashi Cafe near. So you were also able to like come and get coffee. And then we would have around us, we would be surrounded kind of by our partners and like, like our, you know, like the cloud partners, like our SI, like integration partners. So I would kind of design it like the way you would flow through it would be kind of how you would like experience Burning Man. I don't know.

Wait, that's awesome. I love that. Which, which of the 10 guiding principles would you say was like most influential in, in terms of like that kind of design? Well, I think it's more of just, or is it like the combination of them?

I think I love that when you go there, you're just open to connecting with anyone, right? Like it's, you don't know what people do, you don't know their backgrounds. You meet people of all different ages, all different like socioeconomic backgrounds, and you really just kind of go and just try and connect with people on a human level, which I love, which I think people sometimes forget to do, right?

Yeah.

But like, hey, like you can learn something. Like there was this, there was this camp near me that was, um, it was run by these older men that like brew beer. So it was just basically like a craft brew and they would have like hard kombucha on top. So I would just go there in like the afternoon when it was like 104 degrees and just go and talk to, and the, and these men had like the, the most interesting, beautiful stories. And I'm like, I'm so happy I met them and I found them so inspiring, right? So I think like. You miss out on like just connecting to people and what you can learn from them. And then I also love the idea of like the gifting economy and just, so that's, that's a whole thing. And then play, I think our ver— like, right when you grow up, you're like, okay, I have to be this serious adult and I have to live this certain way. And I think there's this like loss of imagination, right? So, so for me, I like, you know, I try not to put my life in a box.

Mm-hmm.

And then that, and, uh, career or, or personal life. So for example, career, right? Like after HashiCorp, I was like, okay, well now I have to go because I spent 7 years and I did this iconic thing. I now have to go and my, be an executive and do it all over again and prove my— I kind of put my career in a box, but which then didn't open me up to like other possibilities, right? But then I was like, okay, I started like, I made my first angel investment. Wait, wait, wait.

I wanna talk about like What was your first angel investment like?

Oh gosh. So again, I, I never thought venture was a route available to me. I think when I started in tech, it seemed in 2008, it seemed like this kind of untouchable thing, right? You had these like legendary funds and these legendary investors and it just felt so off. So I never really paid attention to the world of investing. But then after I left HashiCorp, I was like, okay, well, Because I'm not like, I, I'm not a person that needs a lot of stuff. So I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna just maybe set aside a little bit of cash to just try to like invest. And my first investment came through a friend. And this woman, she started a company called Gabby that is trying to change the way that breast cancer screening is done and awareness around kind of breast cancer. And I was like, well, that's incredible. That's something I care about, right? My, my, my grandma and grandfather passed away from cancer, right? So I'm like, So, so I kind of, I made my first investment based on something I deeply care about. And then once I kind of like, I was like, oh, that was actually really cool, right? I learned a lot through that process. I get to support a friend. I get to support a mission I deeply care about. Then I started to kind of be like, oh, is this actually something I could do? And then all of a sudden, right, I, I just kind of, I approached it as like, I just kind of started like reaching out to people on LinkedIn. I was like, hi, I don't know what I'm doing, but would you talk to me? And so I just started reaching out to like people that would potentially give me advice, like.

Yeah.

I ended up meeting Grace Isford. She's a partner at Lux Capital.

At Lux. Yeah.

And I was like, hey, oh yeah, I love Lux.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so she's like, so she's like, Yana, come to this dinner. It was in, in March. Again, I, I never paid attention to like the VC world, but it was like, it was in March and she's like, Yana, come to this dinner. Um, so a few things happened at this dinner. One, she sat me down next to Michael Stockelman, who's like a legendary angel investor. He used to be SVP of Yelp. And I didn't, again, cuz I, I'm just set, like, I don't know. I don't know this world. I didn't know him. So I was like, hey, I was just chatting. And at some point I was like, what's up? What's up? And at some point I was like, Michael, you're going to be my mentor. And I was like, you have no choice. I literally told him that. He's like, okay, sure, you're on it. And literally he has been, he's been like, he texts me all the time. We chat, he gives me advice. But so I think that's my biggest advice to people is don't be afraid, right? Like just because someone may seem like super successful and, and, and have it all together, at some point they were at the beginning of their careers, right? At some point. And so people are more willing to talk to you and, and more willing to help you than you realize, right? So Michael's a great example of someone like a, like, uh, like I was like, I'm not gonna be afraid to talk to him and, and maybe he brushes me off, but he, he didn't, right? He was instead like, okay, I got you.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

As we wrap up, I wanna talk about something that we mentioned at the beginning, which was The days after ringing the bell at the IPO. So like for context, you started at HashiCorp at 10 employees and then they IPO'd 6, 7 years after that.

7, 7 years.

7 years after that at $15 billion, which is crazy. But you mentioned that you had IPO maids, which is awesome. Can you share a bit more about what an IPO maid is and like that experience?

Yeah, it's special, right? So I've, I've done 6 early stage startups.

I started working in tech, right?

I, I think I, I love, I love the tech industry. I love building. I'm a builder. And so when I joined HashiCorp, right, I just, I deeply loved Mitchell and Arman. I, I, you could already get a sense from the community that they also loved the products we were building. And I didn't join HashiCorp 'cause I thought one day like, oh, I'd be rich and we're gonna be a publicly traded company. You just don't know that, right? And I think sometimes people lose, lose the fact that it's like, It takes years, right? Like it took 10, like it took 10 years of, of, you know, of, of, I, I was there 7 years, right? But for it to like have some type of exit, and that's just like one start, right? The company continues on. It's gonna be one day as big as Oracle. But it was really special, right? I think, again, we don't, we don't ex— we didn't expect it, right? It's something we all just kind of, we loved HashiCorp. A lot of the early people stayed, right? It was like a really beautiful culture and just like such a special place to work. So I ended up staying that long. But yeah, it was, so I was part of a small team that they brought in early to kind of help prepare the company to go public, right? I did a lot of like the experiential stuff, um, the day of and for virtual stuff for employees. But about a month before, I was with my mom, like my mom and I went to Czech Republic. So my family's from a small town in Czech Republic called Zlín. My parents actually are immigrants, right? They escaped, um, in, in '85. And it was kind of special. So I was with my mom. My mom and I hadn't been to Czech in like 20 years. And so we were on a train heading to the little town where my family's from, to the exact train station that my parents had boarded, you know, I guess 38 years ago. And I was on an all-hands where like the CEO, Dave McJanet, announced that the company was going public. And I still tear up about it cuz it, I like looked at my mom and I was like, the sacrifices you and dad made allowed me to have a career and a life that I like probably could have never dreamed of. So it was special, right? It was this like special moment that I got to experience with my mom of like, oh wow, our lives changed because of the sacrifices you made. But yeah, and then so fast forward a month later to the IPO, they, they had all the 50 early employees come, which was really special. And I just, again, 'cause I was there so long that I got away with it, but I basically flew my mom out and flew like some of my best girlfriends. 'Cause you think about, it's my girlfriends that got me to this moment, right? It wasn't easy. Like, yeah. For years I was working 80 hours a week and I was traveling and tired and it was my girlfriends that got me there and I wanted them to be there. Um, so I dubbed them instead of bridesmaids, I called them IPO maids, which I like, I want every woman to have this moment, but it was basically like they were there supporting me. And so after like kind of the bell ringing there, there's, you know, we had, we had some, we had some time before I had organized this really cool kind of dinner, celebratory party. So we all, like my girlfriends and mom and I, we all went and got like blowouts and then I took them out to dinner. So I literally had like my girlfriends there. And then of course I snuck them into the party. And so I'd say it's just me and I hired a photographer. So we just have these like epic photos. And I literally had my mom and my girlfriends at the IPO. 'Cause again, it was just like, it's the support of my friends and their like constant, like You got this, Yana. And then of course, like having them the day of where like literally my, my life did change, right? Like the course of my life and the course of my family's life changed that day. So it was nice. So IPO made sense.

I love that. Well, Yana, that, those are all the questions I have for you today. I so enjoyed this time that we got to spend together, and I'm so grateful for you sharing your stories with me and with those listening. Where can people find you online if they wanna find out more about you or follow you?

Yeah, I just have a website, yanairis.com, and yeah, just send me an email. I'm also on Twitter. But yeah, I love having any types of conversations. If you want to chat community, if you need mentorship, guidance, anything, just reach out.

Awesome. Thanks so much for tuning in today to Seed to Harvest. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe wherever your favorite podcast listening platform is. I'll be releasing new episodes weekly. And if you have any questions or comments, feel free to let me know on Twitter. That's Paige Finn. Paige and then Finn with 3 N's. Thanks and see you again next week.