3. From Married to Meaningful: Building Partnership and Friendship After Divorce

Welcome to Builders of a Better World podcast, a space for depth, clarity, and honest conversation where presence matters more than performance. Let's begin. Welcome back to another fantastic episode on Builders of a Better World. My name is Ashlea. I promise not to sing every time I introduce an episode. Um, we have an untitled episode for you today. We have yet to discover a title. It Is an episode that is going to be in reference to something really significant to me. So, in launching Ashlea into the world, I have to introduce someone that I feel very proud to call my ex-husband. It sounds juicy already, does it not?

Yeah.

Really good. However, he's become what I would say is more like a brother. To me, um...

Brother. Yeah, sure.

He's like my bro. It's, it's really hard to define because I think conventionally it's unique. I don't think that there are a lot of relationship dynamics that emulate what we've become. Uh, we've, we've been a married couple, and, you know, obviously all that, that All that precedes that. So we dated, all the things, found each other, had a really beautiful friendship. And then it's evolved in a way that I'm, for one, just really grateful for. So be there a way of describing it with language or not, I'm just really fucking appreciative of it. And it's something that every single morning when I wake up, I say, thank God I have this. And I say, thank God I have you.

I feel exactly the same way.

That's real.

Yeah.

So we need to talk about that.

Sure.

Because the purpose of this, right? Builders of a Better World. You're something that builds a beautiful world for me.

Stop.

Right? And you and I have this collective mission. We are one and the same to contribute to that which is outside of ourselves in the name of service, in the name of... building a better world. So we have that likeness about us, and we have that in common. But it could be inspiring to talk about our story.

Sure.

And to talk about how we've become what we've become. Um, and if people can resonate, I would love to hear about it. So if you have a Nef in your life, I, I want to know. So comment. Yes.

Tell—

let me know if you have a Nef. The world needs a Nef. I'm gonna tell you, like, and you'll understand why as we get further into this episode. Um, but yeah, you're just somebody really important to me. And it wasn't always so loving.

No, but—

It was loving. We always had love.

Yeah, yeah. But—

so do you have a way of describing us? Do you— how do you define What we are now? Do you have a way of articulating it?

Well, I mean, like you said, um, you know, our, our journey together has been interesting and wonderful and sometimes frustrating, but I think that that's every relationship, you know, out there. Um, we had to find out what really worked for the two of us as far as Um, our dynamic is concerned. And, um, you know, it, it wasn't married, unmarried dynamic. It was something a little different. Um, I can honestly say that I have, um, such a great love and appreciation for you. Um, no question about that. So putting brother, sister to it is, is, I think, a good way. The best possible friend. You know, I think that we, you know, if you want to say we choose the family that we, that we want, I would say that I definitely choose you as family. And, and I know you choose me as well. And it is a really, really wonderful relationship.

Thank you.

And it— and again, just like you said, I mean, I'm also extremely grateful that you are a part of my life for a lot of reasons, but you do bring the best out of me, and that means so much to me.

I have topics in mind that I would like to discuss, but I want to ask a question that just kind of piggybacks on what you just said. And my question is, is that, do you feel like that is a choice? You've made a declaration, which I humbly and wholeheartedly just appreciate, but you've made the statement that I contribute to bringing out the best in you. I'm wondering, not for the sake of trying to lead you to brag about me specifically, that's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm not trying to invoke this conversation about how awesome I am. It's more so, why do you think that is? And do you think that's a choice? Like, how much command over that do you think you have? Is it something that— is it a power you've given someone? Is it something that you decided? Like, how has that— and how has that come into your awareness? I just asked you 10 questions. In one question.

It's actually a really good question though. And addressing the changes in our dynamic, what I would say, you know, when we were a married couple, even when things weren't, you know, awesome, One of the things that you did, and again, I will brag on you. One of the things you did is that you always were very honest and clear, like you were a very good communicator and you were very honest and clear about what you wanted out of the relationship, what you kind of hoped that we would be like and how you hoped that we would respond to each other. And I've been in a few relationships, and you were the first person to do that, to really be very clear, have a clear understanding of what you kind of wanted the relationship to be like. And because, of course, I cared about who you are as a person and who you were in my life, Then those things became important to me as well. And that is a choice. It is a choice to go, well, I care about this person. So if they have an idea of how they want your dynamic to be, then I also care about it as well, if that makes sense. And that never stopped being the case. So as our relationship has progressed and changed, I still care about you as a person. I still care about— You know, our dynamic and how our relationship is, whether it is friendship, whether it is family, whether— no matter what it is, I still do care about you as somebody who's a part of my life. And I do think that that is a choice and a decision. And because I also have Yeah. An idea of how I want our relationship to be, and I feel like I've also shared that, and you've definitely shown that you care about how I feel about things. It makes a very harmonious relationship. It makes a really healthy relationship because we're both listening to each other. We're both caring about each other's feelings and opinions and, and situations and We're both trying to make the situation a better situation. Ultimately, it's that idea that if we both put energy into the same goal as far as having a healthy, happy relationship, then things become quite easy.

I agree. Yes to everything that you said. When people ask me, because I get questions all the time, which is why I wanted to do this episode, it's if you're going to get to know Ashlea, well, Nef is a huge part of my world and my life, and people are always so inquisitive about how it works, quote unquote, you know, and how we navigate, you know, this newfound kind of a dynamic where you're still such a significant part of my life, but there's no romance, depending on how you define romance, you know. conventionally speaking, by most societal standards, there's no romantic— it's a pure platonic love. But the thing that I share is that— and forgive the polarizing verbiage, but it's like, well, it helps that we're both good people. And I wanna shy away from the idea of saying a person is bad and a person is good. That's not You know, we're not in that state, but you have pure intention, and I have pure intention. And so if there was a way I had to describe with regards to, quote, how does it work, I would say that is the biggest part of it. Yes, you can go into the specifics, well, we mutually respect each other, and, you know, all those things, which is very important, and Lovely, but I think at the end of the day, you purposefully behave in a way that you think contributes to the betterment of my life, and likewise, vice versa.

Yeah.

You know, it's, it comes down to, I think, a very intentional practice of, you know, what am I being for this person? And it gets really easy to navigate in a way that just aligns with, I'm gonna be love, I'm gonna be support, I'm gonna be forgiving, I'm gonna be understanding. One of the things that I really wanted to talk about, it's been a really important lesson for me, and it's contributed to allowing us to be as we are today. And that component is forgiveness. I had to get really honest And very— the word that's coming to mind is surrender. I had to surrender to any sort of withholding of contempt that I may have had. I had to really let that go. I had to wholeheartedly forgive you. And I'm so grateful that I learned how to do that. Because once you learn how to do it, you can do it. You're like, oh. And it's not always easy, you know, it's— but I think exercising forgiveness is arguably a skill set. It's arguably something that, you know, hopefully gets easier and better over time. And when you step into the idea of, you know, what does it mean to unconditionally love and unconditionally be loved? You know, us, as we have been originally to what we are now, is my story in learning forgiveness and unconditional love. And I cannot say how grateful I am for that. There are no words to articulate how profoundly transformative that experience has been for me. And again, I'll say it as many times as I feel called to. It's when I do my gratitude practice in the morning and I list the things that I am most grateful for, the thought of you, Nef, it embodies all of that for me. All of those really brilliant, transformative, very empowering, Transformative moments. It's incredible. So I think that with the understanding of forgiveness and the pursuit of receiving and giving unconditional love is why we are who we are to each other. And it's a gift. It's a miracle, in my opinion. And I— it's a wish I feel like— I don't want to project, you know, my desires onto anyone else, but, you know, if I could wish things for people, I mean, talk about companionship and support. Like, we nail it. It's not that I don't hate you on occasion, and I want to talk about that. Like, I want to talk about— because I get mad at you. It's not— it's not— It— every relationship takes intention, and that's what we're talking about.

Yeah.

You know, um, there are moments where you're uncomfortable when I'm angry with you.

100%.

And I don't like being angry at you, but you know, that's just an inevitable thing that is— that's gonna be our journey for the rest of this life.

Yeah.

You know, it's, it's constantly going to take a semblance of nurturing and investing. And I just keep coming back to the word intention. I don't know a better one to use as a phrase, but it takes purpose. You have to exercise an act of purpose, and that purpose must be to ultimately care about the other person. But yet that's hard for some people. That's not easy for some people.

Well, I think you said it really well. Um, the idea that we have unconditional love for each other starts with finding value in each other first, you know. And I think we both recognize the value of each other in each other's lives. And yes, unconditional love is a choice. Being intentionally caring and thoughtful and putting positive energy into our relationship is a choice. All of that becomes a choice. But the— to me, the factor that makes everything easy is The why, and that is that we bring value to each other's lives.

But do we choose? Do you— I want to go back to this. Like, do you think that it's something that can be turned on and off?

Oh, of course.

Okay.

Because there was a reason that we've that we did get married in the first place, right? So there is a reason that why we got married in the first place. So—

Insurance and citizenship. Just kidding. Just kidding.

All right. So before that— no, I'm just kidding. But ultimately, when we first did start to associate with each other, there was a reason that we were attracted to each other. There was a reason that we wanted to be around each other. There were reasons. And just because we started realizing that the relationship of marriage did not work for us did not change the fact that there were reasons why we found each other attractive. I'm going to put that in quotes, in the sense that we were attracted to each other. One, uh, somebody— I don't even remember the person, but somebody I've been listening to talked about the fact that The reason that sometimes we're attracted to people is because we're attracted to who we are around that person. And I think that that was a big deal for me, is that as we got to know each other, I think I found the best parts of myself, and I became more aware of some of the parts that I wanted to change. And you talk about your journey and the fact that you have a growth mindset and you're always aspiring to be a better human being as you go through the journey called life has been a huge thing for me as well. Seeing that example and being around that is wonderful. And I feel like I, again, am becoming a better human being by doing so. Which hopefully contributes to, of course, your betterment in the sense that like-minded people help each other to progress. They encourage each other to progress, whether it be through example or through words of encouragement. It doesn't really matter. Ultimately, like I said, There was things about our relationship that had huge amounts of value, and I chose to put energy into that. I think you chose to put energy into that. So when, when you— when it comes down to it, when you think about the people who are in your lives and you can have that gratitude, right? So gratitude, such a big thing about what that person brings to your, to your existence, right? And you can be aware of that. Awareness and intentionality, or I don't even know if that's a word, but awareness and being intentional with that information, with that understanding, with that feeling cultivates such a greater positive environment for relationships to progress and to grow. And yes, it does take a choice. It does take a decision, sorry, to go I can see the value in what this brings to my life, so I'm going to be intentional about how I deal with that. Even when we are upset at each other, both of us recognize that the relationship has value. We can be mad at each other. We can be upset at each other. There are things that I do that bother you, and there are things that you do that bother me. And it, in the end, it doesn't it doesn't change the dynamic of us both caring about each other or us both being there for each other in ways that, like you said, not a lot of people are.

I love that.

You know?

I want to talk about something that I think— I'm just, again, I'm feeling I feel called to speak about it, so I'm going to speak about it. You know, you said something earlier, like our— you know, we weren't meant to be married to each other, or, you know, it wasn't— you know, we're not— forgive me for reiterating, but it was almost as though you alluded to, like, like a fate, like we're not meant to be married.

Sure.

And whether that's how you intended it or not, that's just— that's how I heard it. And I want to say that I feel like we could be married if we wanted to. With respect, my husband now, love you so much, you know, like, I'm in no way disrespecting the commitment and vow that I'm in now, but I think— that there's a maturity that has taken place over— I'll just speak for myself, and you can disagree. It's not gonna hurt my ego. You can be like, no, I don't wanna marry you. That's fine. I don't wanna be married to you anymore. Totally fine. Like, that's all good. I swear, honestly. For me, at the time, And I spoke about this before, but I think if this resonates with anyone, there's a value in sharing it. You were the biggest blessing in my life in the sense that you gave me permission to be whatever I wanted to be. And that's fantastic. Like, that's incredible. It gave me a beautiful sense of acceptance and safety, which was what I needed at that time. And in my just very young way of moving through the world, I found it difficult to hold myself accountable for my actions. for certain actions and behaviors because I was so held by you in my trauma, in my fear, in my temper, right? I knew that I could get away with things that, you know, arguably just were not me being my highest self. And you were gonna love me anyway. And you do, right? Like, this is proof, you know, to this day. And that's the most beautiful gift. But in my, I'm gonna call it an immature way of moving through the world, you know, we married when I was 23. And who cares, chronological age, like, get married whenever you want. It's not to say. But emotionally, I was young.

Yeah.

And emotionally, I had to figure out what my highest and best self felt like, looked like, spoke like, all of these wonderful things. And in being with you, I unfortunately, in some way, found it enabling. Because I was given such freedom over my untamed wildness, which has so much value, and I'm so grateful for it. I was in a space where, you know, I unfortunately couldn't hold myself accountable enough to, you know, not be a terror sometimes. Does that make sense? Am I making it— you know, like—

Yeah.

I was— my temper was so forgiven by you that I had— I unfortunately didn't have the inner incentive to not have a temper.

I—

and I— now I have inner incentive, right? Now I have my inner why. Now I have my inner understanding of, you know, who I need and want to be. And I've, you know, gotten very comfortable with, you know, that which I just aspire to achieve. Whereas at the time, I knew I could get away with not treating you well, or not behaving my best, and you were gonna be there, and love me, and look at me adoringly either way. And it was— I just wanna bring attention to that, because it's something that I look back on, and I'm like, I'm so glad that I know what that feels like, to be my ugliest.

Yeah.

and still be called beautiful is like, that is incredible to have experienced and to know what that feels like. So anyway, now I feel like we could be married and we could be just fine, for the record.

Well, I think you said it perfectly, and that is time, right? So the time, that specific time, You were in whatever place you were on this journey, and I was in whatever place I was on the journey. And the reality was, is that during that specific time, we both had a lot of growing up to do. And it's funny because, of course, I'm older than you are, but I still had a lot of growing up to do. And what I think, and this is where it gets really powerful for, I think, both of us, and I think this is absolutely true. Is we needed to meet each other then and have that experience so that we could both grow. But you also needed to have your experience with Michael.

Right, of course.

Do you know what I mean? And that's the reality. You needed that to grow into the next phase of your existence and to have the progression that you've had. And I actually needed to be single, which is interesting.

That's what I'm saying. I, I, you know, yes, I, I'm again with respects to the journey and the universe and the fate and the way that things needed to divinely happen. I'm not 100%, I'm not going against that whatsoever.

No. And I think that what you're saying is 100% right, is that as we both become more mature and we both become more emotionally mature You know, the reality is, is that, that we could, we could be good partners for each other. You know, we could—

We are.

Yeah, exactly.

We are partners.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's exactly right. And, you know, I actually have found a great— I, I'm very grateful that you both, Michael and you, have allowed me to be a part of your family in a sense, you know, because Again, the environment that you create around you is one that aids in self-development, self-improvement, healthy lifestyle.

Yeah.

All of the things that I want in my life. That has so much value. And I do continue, no matter what happens, I do continue to desire that and want that and hope that I have that in my life, 100%.

My home is my sanctuary. I say it, that is one thing I do very often preach about. It's really important that you are continuously aspiring to be your best self, both at home as well as out into the world. My home, for me personally, is my safe space. It's a place for rejuvenation, it's a place for rest, a place for celebration, a place for love. It's a safe space. And in my growing and maturing and developing and, you know, all those things, I really found the significance in building that and in having that. And it's a rule for me in this life, and it has been for some time now. It's like, you must contribute to the safety of the space being at home. It's not a place where you can— fly off the handle and let your, you know, whatever wild, untamed aspect of you just kind of— you can't just let it go just because you're at home and in the safety of people who are obligated, we'll say, to quote unquote unconditionally love you. But again, the experience with you has taught me that.

Yeah.

It's taught me how to have that and the value of that. And now we're in my sanctuary. This is the room that is called the sanctuary in my And it's a very important space for me. It's a sacred space. And, you know, I went from home being the opposite of that, you know, growing up. And then, like you do, you become a contributor to that degree of unrest, we'll just say. I was a contributor to the unrest. And now I, I see the value in refusing anything other than peace when you're at home.

Yeah, I think both of us have come to really appreciate energy and what that means, uh, in your life, uh, and how it does influence you in many different ways, whether it be Your health, uh, or even just how you're able to cope throughout your day, you know. Uh, I think that the idea that gratitude and positive vibes, uh, you know, are just really important to have around.

Agreed.

You know, and I think that that's something that, that, you know, like, you bring all the time.

Oh, thank you.

So yeah, that's really good.

We're here to build a better world.

Yeah.

And you help me do that.

Thank you.

So you have, yeah, my best friend, huge confidant in this life. I know I could call you if I needed to bury a body.

Absolutely.

And that is, yeah, that's when you know you're winning in this life.

Yeah.

So again, from the bottom of my heart, just thank you. And in all my gratitude, I'm very, very, Very appreciative of all that you are. So do you have an NIF in your life? If you don't, you should get one. I'll lease him to you, um, very reasonably. He's a, he's a good guy to have around. Um, and how could you contribute to being someone else's NIF? Yeah, let me know. Let me know, because that's what we do. We are here to build a better world.

That is a very good question. Yeah, that is the best question. Is if you want enough, be enough. Be enough.

Yeah, thank you so much. Let me know if you have enough in your life. I'm very curious. So reach out to me on Instagram, Ashlieya, A-S-H-L-I-E-Y-A. Builders of a Better World, we have an Instagram page. We're also on YouTube. So open invitation, reach out, let me know. Thank you for joining us here at the Builders of a Better World podcast. Please share, subscribe, comment, and be sure to pass this episode along for anyone who may need it. See you next time.