8. Teaching the "Starfish": Impact in Low-Income After-School Programs

Welcome to Builders of a Better World Podcast, a space for depth, clarity, and honest conversation where presence matters more than performance. Let's begin. Welcome back to my living room, guys, or as I like to call it, my sanctuary. Builders of a Better World Podcast. I have a fantastic guest for us today. She's one of my favorite people on the planet for a variety of reasons. We originally met in a professional capacity, that involves kids, something very near and dear to my heart, and I'm sure you will agree, very much contributes to building a better world. So without further ado, Marisa Miller, do you want to tell us who you are and what you do?

Sure. As you know, I am Marisa Miller. I am a consultant and curriculum writer. I specialize in working with low-income after-school programs. And my focus is to support staff to do incredible, fun, engaging, rigorous activities so that kids don't feel like they're in school, yet they're learning and growing every single day.

That's amazing. That's what we all want to do for kids, right? I think we can all share in that in some capacity, but you do it in a very specific way, and I've perceived that you have a very intentional way of navigating what you do. Can you speak more to that, the idea of intention that you have?

Sure. Um, so I've been in the youth development field for close on to 20-plus years now. Before that, I was a classroom teacher. Um, I also was a director of curriculum for 2 charter schools that I founded. Um, And out of all that, then I was also worked at a museum as a program director for a marine science center. And all of these different experiences, and actually I should probably also mention I worked in Hollywood before I got into education. So it's kind of a hodgepodge of stuff that's come together. When you speak to intention, for me, intentions come from a whole collection of experiences I've had.

Yeah.

Kids I've worked with, staff I've learned, ideas I've worked, And they've come together now so that my viewpoint is, or my way of supporting kids and staff is truly customized in a way that it's— my best way to put it is actually, so I don't know, you and I met in this professional capacity, but I think to a certain extent you're offerings with the dance studio and so on are quite obvious, perhaps, right? You're teaching dance, right?

Sure.

Like, it's hip-hop, it's ballet, it's jazz, it's some kind of choreography, right? It's pretty straightforward, a lot of that content. Now, you can do it with greater quality, greater intention, greater staff training to support and gather all the kids and so that every kid can be customized. I know you stress social-emotional learning aspects to your dance instruction, which I think is incredibly powerful and also pretty unique to have such a strong focus on it.

Thank you.

My thing is that I offer or can do and do do material program offerings across the entire spectrum. So, if programs are looking for something to support literacy, Or if they're looking to support wellness, or if they're looking to support STEM, right? Or STEAM, which is the new— for those of you on your podcast, it's science, technology, engineering, art, and mathematics. The idea that it's— there's an integration of humanities with the science and technology. So different. And— but I've also worked with like rural programs that want agriculture. I've worked with emphasis because the community income. So I guess what I'm saying is for me, and then there's just life skills, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I've written curriculum around— we've— when I was running a program for 10 years with our own 7 schools, we would just find out like the kids don't know something or there's gaps in certain basic life skills. To be honest, I actually wrote a curriculum once around ironing. Because we figured, well, there was an event coming up and we have a lot of low-income kids and they were very excited to put on their best foot forward for this school event. And a lot of the kids were showing up in the shirts and the dresses and things. And it was no— it wasn't a negative thing, but we observed that a lot of the clothing was rumpled.

Mm-hmm.

And we had an iron and we said something to the effect of like, you want us to iron that? And the kids were like, just didn't have a connection to that experience.

Yeah.

So we didn't do it right there. We just took care of the ironing and they had their event, right? But it made us realize. So life experience. So I guess what I'm saying is my intention and my— yours are more obvious as far as like what skills are. My special thing or intention you're talking about is What's behind everything I do, write, and provide is as rich and deep of unlocking opportunity and new images of— for the kids to have of themselves, even if the surface activity is flying paper airplanes or telling jokes in a stand-up comedy or pretending that they're running an international cafe and researching food and creating a menu, right? Like, the activities are wide-ranging, but the intention always is to empower the kids to have a deeper, richer sense of themselves and more capable, be able to do things and see themselves as doers.

I love that, to help kids have a better image of themselves. That's amazing. I— personal tangent for a moment, which I can do that because My podcast. I wish I'd had that growing up. I was raised with TV and movies as my example, and books, as we've spoken about at great length.

Yes.

You know, my example for what else there could be was that, and that was it. For that to be offered in these communities that are considered impoverished, they're lower income, and they don't have the same access to things that other people could have.

Right.

That other children can have. And that's— I hadn't ever heard you describe what you do that way.

Right.

I love that so much. That's really beautiful. Okay. You already spoke about your experience leading up. You just kind of organically presented that. So well done, because that was going to be my next question. But we already took care of that.

Right.

Beyond that, there's— I mean, we can talk about this or not. I can come up with another question.

Sure.

My experience with afterschool explicitly as it pertains to lower income was very hard for a variety of reasons.

Yes.

There are its own specific type of unique challenges that are just kind of embedded in what it is. Is there any part of you that feels called to speak to that and what that's like from your perspective?

Well, the part I can share is when I got my training in the late '90s to be a classroom teacher with a credential and all that, Some of the books and material that we learned, there was one particular book by Jonathan Kozol called Savage Inequalities, which is an examination of the inequitable school system that we had then and we continue to have now.

Yeah.

And it wasn't that I wasn't unaware— I was unaware of that because my own childhood, I went to several school districts and I was exposed to school districts with more resources than others at times. And it was very interesting for me to see the system have— be part of the problem as far as like, it didn't actually— like we were kids, we were the same. I was the same whether I was in a well-resourced district or I wasn't.

Yes.

As a child. So what I wanted and what I needed academically, supportive life skills, all that was the same. So I had a little bit of an awareness of that, but then as a professional or a new professional. And then as part of the training, you actually have to go and do your service training and so on. And I went to a— one of my trainings was, I was already working inside a maximum security unit at juvenile hall. So I already had a daily work life tied to, shall we say, a challenging population, and I actually loved it already. But I did then get sent and required to do an upper-income math magnet school as part of my training. And that was fine, it was lovely, I learned a lot, I was still new. But my real pivot point was about 2 years later when I was teaching in Arizona, and I actually ended up teaching in a regular elementary school. And I was a 6th grade teacher, and I had a co-teacher, And I will be honest and say it was the— when you speak to the challenges, it was no question the easiest teaching year I had in my entire formal teaching profession. And I, after one year, thought it was the wrong place for me to be. Because it was very clear to me— and I can still picture those students. And I had a great year. And I mean, it was fun. But I knew within 6 months, and certainly by the end of that school year, that while I appreciate, I hope I brought something to them that was unique or special to my teaching, in the end, these children had well-resourced lives and the school district was in good shape. And honestly, any decent teacher, not— and there are junk teachers, don't get me wrong. But if they had a decent teacher, they were going to get what they needed academically, socially, life skills, exposed to things, like they were gonna succeed.

Sure.

They were gonna get to the next grade, they were gonna get to high school, they were gonna get to college if they wanted it, right? Like the doors weren't closed on them inherently. And then that's when I realized I could not do that. I needed to be with kids. I feel like a little bit, For a variety of reasons, which I won't get into here, 'cause I can get into ages, 'cause it's systems and money and resources. There's a lot of reasons for it.

Yeah.

But I feel like a lot of communities and children situations don't get the best teachers for a lot of reasons. And I felt like I personally could choose to, to be a really good teacher for kids that might not have gotten a really good teacher. To whatever degree I was a really great teacher, but I needed that, the kind of teaching I needed to do. And so when you say, yeah, it's not easy, but for me personally, it's the only thing I can think to do because, I mean, the other kids, they're gonna be fine.

Yeah.

And I don't, you know, and I don't know how much I impact, but I want to get up every day, then and now. I do it differently now, but get up every day knowing that I'm trying to make things better.

Mm-hmm.

In a really intentional and direct way. I'm sneaky about it these days because I don't actually tell the staff— the field I'm in now, I don't tell the staff what I'm doing. I just craft it in a way that it's going to make it better. I don't educate them about it. I just have them do it. But I do have a lot of what I offer has a lot of depth to it and a lot of experience behind it and a lot of specific industry teaching pedagogical strengths to it. But your point about, yeah, it is. But I actually think it's fun. I know that sounds—

No, it's perfect.

But I think it's fun to solve those problems. Or find workarounds. Because I can't solve poverty. I can't solve junkie ice situations like today. I can't solve— but I can wake up and realize, oh, these parents don't have access to X.

Right.

But the public library has a free app that I can create a flyer and then teach the kids. And the kids can all have library cards for free. And then the parents can do it. And then they— it's in Spanish, right? Like, I can figure out things. That if somebody was just phoning it in, or it's not the stronger kind of teacher, I don't know that that would have happened. And so I'm more than willing all these years to put myself in that place to do that work.

That's amazing. It's commendable, because I find it quite hard and quite challenging, as we've spoken about at length. I can relate very much to some of the most rewarding experiences of my entire life being moments with kids.

Sure.

I started teaching kids when I was 13, and yes, it's usually in the world of performing arts. Like, that's, that's our thing, right? We are the performing arts. It's a specific type of creativity, and I wish everyone was exposed to it in some way, shape, or form.

I agree.

And that's how I came to do what I do. And there's, there's something so special about a kid lighting up in a way that you just don't see them in any other environment other than it clicking. They get an idea, they have the imagination, something for them ignites. And that is something that just was very moving to me, and I found really rewarding anytime I experienced it. But I struggled with the system.

Yes, it's actually not the It's the system.

It's the system.

And it's both the system of the actual school system that you were dealing with, and it's also the system of the nonprofit organizations. It's also the system of what the families and the resources are operating in. I mean, there's just— I think sometimes this culture particularly wants to make it all individual, you know, responsibility, but there are There are challenges, just, and just what you don't, I've heard you say what you don't know, you don't know.

You don't know what you don't know until you know.

There, that, and it's amazing how much the parents or the teachers or like all the different people, actual people in these different layers of different kinds of systems that are interacting, and not always, often, not always, but often not in a, Synergistic way.

Right.

As much as individuals would like it to be.

Right.

The way it operates doesn't lend itself to that.

Right.

And so I think that's one of the things that, that what you don't know, you don't know. And if you can be a part of that channel of getting them to know that—

That's right.

That it changes. Exactly. Yes.

Yes.

I appreciate your point about the kids lighting up. I have found also, and I think I saw that with your staff, was that you put in a lot of time on your staff getting those so that then they can, it's not even generate, I guess facilitate or create the space where those kids can have those moments, right?

Yeah.

And one of the things I'm really enjoying these days is having adults be lit up. Because in a weird way, it's like more— it takes more consciousness and intent to get them to get there.

Yes.

But then when it does, you're leveraging every kid they ever touch now.

Exactly, exactly.

And I like that part too.

I'm so glad you mentioned that, 'cause there's so much emphasis on influencing kids and contributing to the betterment of youth. Let's not give up on the adults.

Right, right, I agree.

Let's not leave them in the cold. They contribute to all of this, and to your point, They have an effect on the kids as well.

And they're starving for it.

Oh yeah.

I think.

Well, they're in the field the same reason we were initially. They want to make a difference in the lives of kids.

Yeah.

So you come in and help them do it better.

I think it's also too bigger in the world too. I mean, I think many more adults are much more hungry to grow.

In their own personal pursuit of happiness and joy.

We know that.

Builders of a Better World. That's why we're here.

That's right.

I love that. That's excellent.

What—

do you have future ambitions, goals, plans, ideas?

Yes, but I'm not gonna— we're gonna stop here. We're not gonna go into that.

We're gonna stop here. Good. Any final thoughts then before we—

No.

No? There's a quote. I'm gonna be— I've been all about the quotes this week.

You have.

Writing my book.

I've noticed that.

I'm like, this lightning just struck my brain again. with something that I love, Leonardo da Vinci. But I'm gonna read it because I don't wanna bug it up. But I really, really love this.

Okay, after you do that, I will tell you a quote that emphasizes what my viewpoint was.

Oh.

Go.

Okay, my quote first. Leonardo da Vinci, to develop a complete mind, study the science of art, study the art of science, learn how to see, realize that everything connects to everything else. You said something earlier about all of the different curriculums and offerings that you provide and how I'm specific to performing arts, but you can offer services as it pertains to any subject matter. That's when I thought of that. I was like, yes, study— yes, study the art of science and the science of art. That's what came to my brain as you were speaking. Your quote now.

Well, my point is that I think all of us, and including the work you're doing here, but all of us sometimes worry about— do we worry about— we wonder if our impact matters, right?

Yeah.

And is it worth the skill? And how much if I can only do X or Y amount? And your question to me about working with poverty groups and where I started with some of this and so on and the intentions I have with it. kind of coalesced to this, and it's a very, in some ways, a very hackneyed story that people repeat a lot, but I think if you really stop and think about it with kind of new eyes, I think it has a different depth to it, and it's very true for my life, I have to say, which is that story about the person who comes along a beach and there's all these stranded sea stars.

Mm-hmm.

And the tide's out and they're dying, and it's not gonna come back in time, and they're dying, and this other person comes along watching this one person just tediously, bit at a bit, throwing individual sea stars back into the water. And the scale apparently of how many are still stranded makes the second person ask the first person, why are you doing this? It's not going to make a difference. This— there's so many. It's going to crash the population. And the first person looks down and has a sea star in their hand. Frozen. Well, it made a difference to that one.

Yeah.

And that's where I stand.

I love that. That's excellent. Well done. That was a good way to wrap that up. Okay. Do you have any call to actions for yourself or for viewers? Okay. Well, thank you so much. That was super excellent. I appreciate you being here and sharing your insight. I can personally attest to the difference that you make because I've seen it and I've also been the recipient of it. You are an excellent consultant and I really value what you do. So—

Thank you.

Thank you so much for watching. Um, I don't have a call to action for you today. Um, like and subscribe. If you're interested in knowing more about Marisa, we have her details linked and attached below. If you're interested in working with her, she does offer consultant services and she is awesome. Thank you so much for watching and see you next time. Thank you for joining us here at the Builders of a Better World podcast. Please share, subscribe, comment, and be sure to pass this episode along for anyone who may need it. See you next time.