Why This CEO Stopped Pitching on LinkedIn - And Got Better Results

I never tried to hide the ball. I never try to withhold information that may help someone. And I think the idea, the authenticity behind that is what attracts people, right?

In this episode of Executive Signal, I'm joined by Will Fuentes. He's the founder and managing partner of Maestro Group. Will has helped hundreds of companies master the art and science of high revenue sales, and he's known for his authentic, no-fluff approach to coaching sales leaders, sales teams, and executives.

Someone reads it every single week, they can become a master a better sales professional. You get a handful of qualified leads every single week, about 2 to 3 a week now. I hope that that's the impact that I have in the world, that we've written or produced something that's good enough for someone to want to take and that improves their life.

I don't think I've ever seen you pitch your services online.

The lead flow that we get from, you know, LinkedIn or, you know, Fuentes Fridays, those are really strong signals. And I think when people are thinking about like journeys and stories and stuff, they don't give themselves enough credit for all of the things that have happened that have shaped who they and how other people can benefit. You do understand that you're fighting against behemoths that have this incredible brand reputation, but what they don't have is you. They don't have your experience and your perspective. You need to get that out there. Often you have these CEOs that you believe just have all this confidence in the world, and the minute you ask them to put their perspective out into the world, it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no.

What, what inspired you to create a weekly newsletter? How do you stick to it? How much time does creating this newsletter take? How much time does creating your regular LinkedIn post take? What do you say to the executive that is feeling that here and just is not hitting the post button.

Let's dive in.

Will, welcome.

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here, Raj. I've always admired you, and over the last couple of years, we've gotten to know each other, and that admiration has only grown. So being on your podcast is a real honor.

Well, the feeling's mutual, and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your insights because when you think about it, a lot of people see you online, and you shared with me something that I found fascinating. You get a handful of qualified leads every single week from your posts. Let's talk about that for a minute. So just like, how many do you actually get in a week?

Yeah, it's slowed down a little bit now, but it's about 2 to 3 a week now, which I still think is pretty good for the level of effort that goes into those posts and stuff. The reality is, is I'm taking the experiences that I'm having in the world, whether professional or personal, and bringing that into a newsletter, right? And, you know, to be able to take that and then have it resonate enough with people to be like, I want to talk to you, has been a really, really just an exciting journey for me, but also just a valuable use of my time.

Now, I noticed that you don't actually do a pitch. I don't think I've ever seen you pitch your services online. What you do share is just stories about how conversations went with clients. Lessons that you can share with your kid playing football and how that might apply to a sales meeting. I love those. And by the way, that makes you really, like, personable. And to your point, hey, I want to do business with a guy like that. So, so can you share, like, what kind of posts you actually put online, how frequently you share, and where are the avenues that you share it? Is it only LinkedIn or other places too?

Yeah, so right now it's only LinkedIn. I've had this dream and fantasy that I'm going to be on Instagram and TikTok and videos and all of this. And, you know, I just, it's a, it's a large elephant, right? And so my first bite is LinkedIn because that's where, like, you know, the people that I want to be talking to are. And so for me, I try to, I try to really think about like what's going to resonate from a good storytelling perspective, what's going to resonate and leave the reader with just some sort of value and whether that value is like those, that minute that I spent reading that made me laugh, or I can relate to that, or I learned something, or I can share this with someone. That's really what I'm trying to deliver when I'm writing. And the reality is, is I think, um, what's most interesting is that, you know, everyone's like, you have to have a hot take or controversial, but I think the experiences that I have shared that have been kind of the most common experiences where I've just kind of taken that, written about it, and failure or success, whatever it is, but something that people can relate to, have had the most success. And you know, there's been a couple posts that, you know, I've had, you know, 100,000, 150,000 people on LinkedIn looking at it, uh, which is pretty phenomenal, right? That's pretty sizable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't the one about Taylor Swift, which was surprising. That one, uh, that one did get like about 30,000 views, but like, You know, but that's because it's Taylor Swift. It's Taylor Swift effect. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I talk to other executives and you and I are part of a DC area networking group called Mindshare. And so we meet lots of executives who are either startups or in many cases they've already built companies and are doing the next one. You know, you and I have both been in that situation as well. And so for the executive that is just unclear about what to share, I mean, you talked about, you just said like Taylor Swift, why, like, why would an executive share something something that's not, I guess, hardcore business online. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, you know, the reality is, is I think, you know, business today still remains, you know, the communication between two people essentially, right? Like whether the entity, the organization's making the decision, at some point humans are still talking. I know we're getting to the agentic world where the bots will be talking, but as of today, it's still humans, right? And so I think you can draw from a lot of things. So that particular pose, if I recall, it was around the, the idea of preparation and preparing yourself for the ultimate moment. And what it was is that she was running, you know, she was singing her whole concert while running on a treadmill, right? I think at like, you know, at a good pace, you know, I think it was probably a 10-minute mile pace, which is a decent pace to be running and singing so that she could figure out when does she get out of breath, can she hit the notes, all of those things. And to me, the reality is that there's all of these experiences that we have, all of these moments where if we just take a step back, and then the big joke is like, what I learned from. But the reality is, if you're open to learning, there's a lot of lessons that are being taught, whether it's in the business world, at your son's game, your daughter's game, whatever it might be. There are lessons being taught all over the world. You just have to be open to accept them. And then connect them.

I think connecting those dots is probably the hardest challenge because if, if you're not wired to just be looking for things to share, that may be a little bit of a challenge. So let's, let's take you back a little bit to your origin story. Now, you started out as a teenager butcher shop. You went to law school.

Yeah.

And at some point you actually started a business and then now you're running Meister Group. So walk us through that journey and tell me more about how important sharing your origin story is to people.

So what's— so wow, you just hit on something. So, uh, yesterday, um, a trusted executive friend of mine sent over an interview that was done with the, um, CEO of, of, of ServiceNow, uh, Bill McDermott. Mm-hmm. And Bill McDermott talks about, um, getting his first job at Xerox coming from Adele. And what he said was, I was the only person interviewing that had talked to hundreds of people every single day, figuring out what they needed, what they wanted, what You know, and it was interesting, right? Because it didn't even spark in my mind. I've always said the butcher shop was my favorite job of all time, but it didn't even spark in my mind until yesterday when I heard that interview that, wait a second, being there after school and talking to people at all walks of life and having to be an expert at 16 around what you're supposed to do with this cut of meat or what recipe you should do for a large party where you're not going to have a lot of time to watch it, like, you know, and understanding that, that was a real, like, actually seminal, like, experience in my life about just, you know, um, about really connecting with and understanding people in general, right? And so I think that thread has, like, gone through from my time in retail, then into, you know, starting my own company. And the reality is, is, is that for me, you know, getting to this point has just actually been, like, just little grains of sand building on one another. And really being focused on, am I in this world or not? Am I here to observe and really take something from the moments in my life or not? And, and, and, and, and I think when people are thinking about like journeys and stories and stuff, they don't give themselves enough credit for all of the things that have happened that have shaped who they are and how other people can benefit, whether it's, you know, someone of the same age, older or younger. People can benefit from you being open and sharing kind of those experiences. I hope I answered your question. I know I went on a long tangent. Yeah, no, no, I said butcher shop and it excited me.

It triggered you, right? Hey, listen, I, I know exactly what you mean, and, and I don't think I've ever shared this one story that you just triggered in my head. Is when I was 16, I used to work at Chuck E. Cheese making pizzas, and I remember I had been asked to do a double shift one day, and I think it was a 10-hour shift. I was exhausted, and they said, hey Raj, can you just work the front and get people their pizzas? I was so tired, I picked up this lady's pizza and I dropped it right on my feet. And I just looked at her, just like, she's like, oh honey, what happened? And I said, I am so sorry. I just kept apologizing and apologizing, and she was the sweetest person and just like made me feel that it was okay. And I realized, you know, I think an apology can go such a long way. And I've carried— I was 16 years old when that happened, and that I still carry that with me today, that if I make a mistake, I got to apologize. And take ownership of it. And that has served me well. And it's small things like that, that from your childhood that you actually can pull up very quickly. And I notice you're doing that right now, not just from your childhood but from your kids' childhood, because you share stories of, you know, coaches and the intensity of coaches and how that might be intimidating for people, which executives can sometimes do with their teams.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting, right? I think, um, the experience— so I've, I've been able to both observe and participate as a coach, right? Observe coaching and, and participate. And, and one of the things that really strikes me is how 11, 12, 13-year-olds can be super resilient to hard coaching if you're respectful and mindful and they authentically believe that you have their best interest at heart. So there's a lot of emotions that go into that as well. But at the essence, if they believe that you have their best interests at heart, you can coach them in a respectful but tough and focused way. And I think like, you know, for me, you know, that's something that I carry through in my practice, which is like continue to be respectful. But respectful also means being honest, right? So really being honest about, you know, what are the things that, that like someone needs to do in order to improve or get the outcomes that they want. The other nice thing is, is watching individuals that have spent their time figuring out how to motivate an individual, whether it's an individual for like their success when they're like pushing their own, you know, these, you know, individual sports, um, or towards the team success and just recognizing, man, what an art it is, but also a science. As I've observed so many coaches that have been successful, like really at the essence, it is this incredible process. And the idea is, is if I'm not watching how these people are motivating what people often think are the most demotivated groups of individuals, teenage boys, right, to listen to, then, you know, if I'm not watching how they're doing it, then how can I be effective in my job coaching professional salespeople and professional executives?

Mm-hmm. You know, the interesting thing about this story is that you're sharing how to look at things, and you do this all the time. I don't think I've ever seen a time when you've actually sold somebody. I can't remember. You and I have known each other for quite a few years. And even, you know, on the listservs that we are part of, when I looked on LinkedIn, there's no sales pitch anywhere. And yet you, you run an amazing sales coaching company. So talk to me about how your approach is, is working. Why did you choose that approach not to actually do a sales pitch for being a sales coaching company? What, what drove that?

The desire to help people in the world, honestly, authentically, I want to help, right? And so when I'm talking to someone and listening to the issues that they have and what they're trying to solve, and I'm giving advice back, I think it's a little bit easy for me specifically because the advice I'm giving honestly isn't rocket science, right? Or rocket surgery, as some of the kids will joke around saying. It's not, right? It's really like practical things. And, and, and so, you know, I never tried to hide the ball. I never try to withhold information that may help someone. And I think the idea, the authenticity behind that is what attracts people, right? And so when I'm writing on LinkedIn and trying to give people lessons, when, you know, when we put up our blog, we, we started our blog, I don't know, 4 or 5 years ago, the Maestro Mastery blog. The, the, the idea was give them everything that we know. Give them everything. If someone reads it every single week, they can become a master sales professional. Just give them something, right? Like, give it to them. And people are like, often would be like, they'll read and they'll say, hey, I read, I read about Driver, I read about this thing. And it's like, aren't you afraid people are gonna steal it? I'm like, I hope they do. I hope that that's the impact that I have in the world, that we've written or produced something that's good enough for someone to want to take and that improves their life or improves their outcomes. And so I think like the, the idea behind our company has always been that. And I think that comes through in what we write about and what we talk about. And, you know, I often will tell people like, hey, like, I just want to chat. It's not a pitch. And already because I'm in sales, they're like suspect of it, right? And then we get in the conversation and they're like, well, I can't believe you didn't pitch me. And I'm like, well, I told you I wouldn't. Why, why would I? Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Because also there's another little secret here. And I said this to someone the other day. This was, you know, they said, hey, you know, we were having a discussion around like working with Oswald or not. And he's like, why would we work? I said, have you ever tried to like get in tip-top physical shape or to really go on like a really like austere diet? Right. And they said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've tried that. I said, what if I told you, you could pay someone to get you in that shape without you having to do the work?

And he said, what?

I said, sales is hard and sales is tough and moving a sales organization is tough. Why would you work with us? Not because you can't do it yourself, but because, you know, having someone else do it for you and deliver the results is probably something that like is, is way more valuable for you because you can spend the rest of your time doing the things that matter in your business, right? And And again, my point was you can do it yourself. And I always believe that about almost anything. And I just approach all our sales conversation with that. Don't leave them with any questions about how it gets done. Just don't. Let them make the choice of whether their time is more valuable or their money's more valuable.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, and I've seen this not just in your, your posts or in your conversations with people, but there's a couple of other things too, and that is your online courses. Most people, when they've got this deep expertise like you and your team has, they will then create a course and they will charge people for access to that course. But you don't. You're like, here it is, just like, take it. Now, do you get, do you get business from that?

You know, I can't directly link business that we've gotten from it where someone took the course and then said, hey, I want you guys to come in. But I can directly link to people's success because I've gotten people writing me, account executives being like, I took the courses, I'm hitting quota. I took the courses, I'm doing much better in my follow-up emails. And I took the courses and my bosses, I'm off my pip, right? Those are like, to me, those are, those are big wins. Um, the also the other side of it is, is I do have long, long-term strategic vision. And so you were, you know, we, we talk a little bit about like, okay, where do we want to end up? Well, I truly believe because that, because we have figured out this one thing, which is to effectively change the way that people sell, you have to respect that they have experience in life and you have to give them the foundation as to why the things that you're suggesting to them work. We grounded all of our stuff in science, right? So we don't treat a salesperson like you don't know what you're doing, so let me tell you. It's like, hey, you're doing what you're doing. There's a better way to do it. It's rooted in science, right? I think that's unique and I wanna elevate that. So I wanna give more courses away, more stuff away, more, write more blogs, do all that great stuff so that one day when I'm like, all right, I'm ready to really have a massive summit for salespeople and everything else, people are like, I'm a fan of the Maestro Group. I'm a fan of Will and I cannot wait to be there. So that's my big long-term vision is to get to that point.

Well, you're partly there because I know you held your first conference, uh, earlier in 2025. I was there and Wow, it was absolutely packed with value. Again, zero sales pitch anywhere. And there's one line you kept saying, and I just can't get over it. It was, it was the best line I heard the whole time. And you kept saying, the genius is in the room. And it was not because you're saying, listen to me. You were saying, listen to each other. What a powerful move. So what, what, what motivated you saying that?

So, um, I think what motivated me saying that was, uh, seminal moments in my life and the reverse here where I was so arrogant and thought I knew all the answers that I made so many mistakes along the way, not listening to the genius in the room. Right. And what I started to realize was that people's perspectives and their experiences, you know, may not directly give me the answer, but can give me data points that helps me get to a better answer. And so for us, it really became super important as we started crafting the way that we were gonna teach people and how we were gonna conduct, you know, whether it's at a conference or summit or trainings, we wanted people to feel open to sharing and others to accept that to perhaps just incrementally get better. That's really where it came from was I spent so much time telling people I knew better, only to go back and look and go, the genius was in the room. It's just that I thought it was me, but it was everybody else.

That's interesting. Let me focus a bit on Fuentes Fridays. So this is your weekly newsletter. You periodically post additional content as well. What inspired you to create a weekly newsletter? And wow, how do you stick to it? Because that's a big commitment.

Yeah. So what inspired me was that I wanted to become a better writer. And, you know, and, and the reality was, is like, you can, to become a better writer, you have to write. Like, you just don't become a better, like, you have to read all that, but you actually really have to write. So that's the initial, like, kind of genesis and was like, and literally it was strictly like, I'm gonna do this to get better at this craft that I want to learn. And if one person subscribes, that's amazing. If a million people subscribe, that's amazing. But the ultimate outcome is is nothing more than sharing what I have with the world and seeing what happens. Well, I'm a big creature of habit. So, you know, as we started doing it and started committing to it, like, you know, and by we, because I do have my editors review it just to make sure that I'm not off the cuff, that it makes sense, you know, just to ensure. So shout out to Rachel for keeping me honest. And so, The reality was, is that like I said, okay, I'm committing to get to this point and this is one of those things where you never stop being good at it. So until I'm like done with the idea of becoming a writer, I won't stop writing. And yeah, I just, I have it planned out. So I keep, so for those who don't read it, right, there's, uh, What I Heard, which is the section where I discuss conversations I'm having with the account executives, customer success professionals. C-level executives, et cetera. And it's just one perspective. I try to keep it into like a minute and a half to 2-minute read where you can take something from it. Uh, then it's what I found funny because I love to laugh and I wanted to show a bit of like myself, right? Like just, this is who I am. And so, you know, what I found funny, then the 40/20 and then Potpourri, which is like a Jeopardy. And then a quote that I shared with my son this week that I felt like either had an impact on him or on me by sharing it. And so as I go through the week, things are happening and I just keep a note, notes open. I take screenshots of things that I find funny and I just email them to myself and I say potential, potential, like, and so it's not, it's like I'm living in the world with just this idea that I'm going to produce something at the end of the week. It's actually not that much work because I am consuming funny things. I am trying to learn new things. I am consuming silly things that go into potpourri. I am writing the quotes for my son, right? And I am giving advice. And so it's just, it's just this idea of like, okay, just take what's already happening and put it on a piece of paper every week. You can every week. Well, you can commit to that. And that's really what it's become.

That, that's, that's fascinating. I like the, the whole concept. I've heard the term story banking used for, uh, figuring out what you should, uh, create content about. And, and actually you kind of went to the heart of the challenge I think many people have, and that is feeling overwhelmed by, oh my gosh, yet another thing to write? Like, oh, I gotta write LinkedIn post now, doing a weekly newsletter, it just seems overwhelming. You're still managing a, you know, a company. It's not like you're an individual consultant or something. You, I mean, you're managing a company, you're an executive, you're meeting with other executives all the time. Um, so how do you balance that? Like, how much time does creating this newsletter take? How much time does creating your regular LinkedIn post take? Um, and then, and then we should, the next step is to take a look at the ROI on that, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, so the LinkedIn posts will probably take between, uh, you know, it depends like today's post, which was someone I did a podcast. They had a really cool clip that I actually liked that they posted about. So I shared it. Um, and I shared it because I honestly was watching the clip. I was like, I said that, that's actually pretty good. I can't believe I said that. Genius was in the room. So, so, so that was pretty short, but like some of the longer pieces will take 30 minutes to an hour, um, on, you know, 30 minutes to an hour. Um, and then the Fuentes Fridays, uh, it probably takes me about an hour and a half to 2 hours over the course of 7 days.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So, and it's not, is it like you setting aside blocked calendar time on Thursday morning to write it or is, is it, how does that work?

Yeah. So if, so like for this week already, I have, I don't have the quote yet because nothing I've shared so has so far inspired me. It's Tuesday as we're recording this. Yeah. I do have, uh, something that I found really funny and something that I found really interesting. Right. So I do have the 40 and the 40/20 is, uh, the Bill McDermott, like, cuz I just, it yesterday it caught me. It was so great. It was such a great interview and I'm like, this needs to be shared with the world. Um, and then I, I found something pretty funny. I was like, man, this really made me laugh. Like, okay, I'm gonna share this. Um, so that's already like, that's already set up. But on Thursday morning, I do set aside time in the morning, first thing in the morning after I do my morning routine, I sit down and that's when I, I write like, okay, like what have I heard? Like really think about like, I might have started little ideas here and there, but that's where I'm going to spend the bulk, like an hour really writing that. And then I'm going to like, you know, massage or soften up whatever it is, you know, the rest of the categories. Or if I haven't had something for my son yet, then I probably, I need to spend another 30 minutes because it's like, okay, like I clearly haven't said anything to him this week that has really like impacted me or him. So now I got to find something that's really going to hit home. And so then that sometimes takes, that actually might be the one that takes the longest sometimes, to be honest. Yeah.

You know, and I'm going to take just like a detour in our conversation for a second because, uh, you know, I'm a little bit older than you are and my kids are already in their 20s. And I wish I had learned this parenting tip from you when they were younger. And that is, you write a quote to your son every single day. And it's not like you email something to him, you don't say something, you actually create a card. Can you talk about that for a minute?

Yeah, yeah. So every single day, part of my morning routine is to, um, just be grateful for what I have in this world. And one of those things is my son. And so I want to show him either, uh, gratefulness, appreciation, any sort of, you know, just some sort of emotion that he can connect with, say, hey, no matter what's going on in my dad's life, no matter how much he's working, no matter like where he's been, he's thinking about me. And I am routine-based. Like when we go on vacation together, I bring the cards along and I write them every single morning and like leave them in, in his room wherever we're on vacation. I don't, I don't miss a day. I don't miss a day when I've traveled and I'm not gonna be home. I pre-write the cards and I leave them in an envelope. And dated for the day that he's supposed to open it. Um, you know, the, the— and, and I will, I think I, I will, um, you know, for me, you know, uh, hearing him, you know, so I think you alluded to our conference that, you know, it was our first conference, been in business almost 9 years, finally coming together and saying, hey world, like, this is us, come see us. And, um, that morning, the morning, the, the morning of the first day of the conference, you know, I was, uh I was already nervous. I was like starting to feel like, oh my gosh, this is like, if this fails, then oh my gosh, like this is well, okay. Not only the expense, but the time and the labor and then bringing my team and having them all focus and believe that we could pull this thing off and it fails. Oh no. My son wrote me a card and in that the card he wrote me had a quote that I left in every single game of his, of his, of his football season. So every, before every single game, it was the same quote I wanted him, which was, no moment is bigger than you're bigger than 'Go and do your best.' And he wrote that on the card to me. He's like, 'Dad, this is your card for today.' And it was like, man, I've written thousands upon thousands of cards and he remembers the stuff.

I remember, I remember speaking with your son at your conference and wow, what an articulate young man. I mean, he could hold a conversation like no other teenager I've seen. And, and I asked him about the cards that he gets from you and he cherishes those. Well, so in case you don't already know, he absolutely loves what you're doing for him. So I wanted to let you know in case you didn't know that already.

Didn't know that. So thank you.

But he did. He really cherishes those. Um, let me, let's get back to our regularly scheduled program here about executive signals. You know, one of the interesting things about this is that we're all human, right? And we go through these human experiences. And sometimes, we'll see these executives only posting corporate-related stuff. And I love the fact that you will introduce things that are happening in your life to it. Let's talk about your team because many executives want to bring their team along for that journey also. Because when you have a whole team rowing in the same direction with posts that are relevant online, that can really amplify your executive signal, your entire company's executive signal. Negative signal. So, um, do you encourage your team, and, and how do they respond to that?

So I encourage them in a couple of facets. Number one is I encourage them obviously to engage with the content that we're writing, right? We— I, I always tell them, like, they have networks outside of Maestro, networks outside of, like, the people that I know. If you find it valuable, I, I do ask that you share it, you like it, you comment on it, you know, so that we can get, you know, We can get this out into the world. And then I also encourage them to, to write on there. And Rachel, obviously, and Alicia write the blog for us, so they don't post as much. Mm-hmm. But I, I, I actually wish they did. They're such authentic voices that I think there's just so much that the world can learn from them and their experiences. It doesn't even have to be Mitra related. I mean, just, just how they write, how they tell a story. Um, recently, recently, Mike, my chief client officer, who's been with me at 4 different companies over 20 years, has decided that this is the year that he is going to start building his executive presence. Why? Well, because often we go into engagements and it's Will and then this backup band, right? And it's like, but he's on the ground working with the SDRs, AEs, coaching them, all this stuff. And so he's like, and I'm like, he's like, I'm so passionate about that. I'm like, all right, you're passionate about that. You're passionate about, that's what you should write about. Like, and so he's been committed to Writing twice a week and some of the posts, I'm just like, whoa, like that's really insightful. Holy cow. You know, he's finding his voice, which I find really powerful, number one for him, but also just in general for us as a company. You know, when people are like, oh, I've read— when they said, oh, I read your Chief Client Officer's last post, that was actually really good. I shared it with my team. It's like, okay, good. We're in a great spot here because they don't think it's just me and a bunch of people. Wow, there's a lot of talent here. And so, you know, it is, I think, pretty important, um, specifically for, uh, very important, uh, parts of your organization to have that voice that comes out a little bit. You should encourage them. And I think the encouragement doesn't need to be like, we don't need to see the views or the clicks or whatever. We just need you to share the genius that's in our room with the outside world.

Yeah. And I think that's probably got this ripple effect where people are saying, okay, that person is also associated with the Maestro Group. And as a result, you have a collective lift with your entire company. So I would imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, those signals also start to increase lead flow and potential pipeline for you. Is that true?

Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting for me is, is that the lead flow that we get from, you know, LinkedIn or, you know, Fuentes Fridays, those are really strong signals. People don't reach out after the first read. They've read like, and you know, it's funny, people are like, oh, I love your French Friday. And I'll be like, oh, like what, which was your favorite edition? Like, I'll just ask. Cause I'm like, I, I sometimes I'm wondering if they're just trying to like, you know, give me a pat on the back and, and build some rapport or something. And, and they'll be like, oh, you know, this one, or I shared this one, or you had this quote that I shared with my son. And it's like, oh, okay. Like these are deep cuts. This is like, they've been reading this 6, 7 weeks or 3 weeks. And, you know, I'll go back and look when they subscribed and I'm like, okay, they subscribed about 2 months ago. So this is interesting, right? Then, then now they're reaching out and, and, you know, when, when people, uh, you know, reach out, having read and understand the perspective of where you're coming from, that familiarity, which I talk quite a bit about in sales, like the familiarity between my personality and Meister's personality and what they're trying to accomplish is, is already at a different level than it would be if like, you know, just cold or even a referral. Mm-hmm.

Well, I think that, you know, just like that signal is so, so critical today, not just to build a pipeline, but to the visibility, the corporate visibility and the credibility. And to your point, since you're not actually selling anything, it attracts people to want to read that material. I had an experience maybe it was maybe a couple of networking meetings ago where because I start sharing, I've started sharing a lot more online. I went to this meeting and I had probably 5 people come up to me and say, Raj, I'm watching your posts. And, um, one of them— well, not just one, a couple of them said, I wanted to talk to you about the post you did this morning or yesterday, and it was about vibe coding, and I was struggling with it, and I was describing why I was struggling with it. And so there are other developers in the room, they're like, no, I really want to have a conversation with you. I look back at my LinkedIn, they have not clicked like, they have not commented ever. But they're still one of the, you know, it's not like I get tons of views on my posts or anything, but something's happening. So can you talk to that a little bit? It's almost like there's an invisible audience that's out there that's consuming your content. And I think a lot of times people might think, oh, I'm posting, I'm not getting any reactions, and then they stop. What do you say to that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. Uh, I think You like, again, I might be different, but my whole idea was like, I have a perspective. I have something to share. If that changes one person or many people, like it's okay. Like it just put it out there, put it out there. Right. If the end goal, I think if the end goal is, is, is to generate opportunities, I think sometimes your writing will actually bleed into the inauthentic that that's the underlying tone of what you're trying to do. Right. Which is. And this is where you get those X account that's like the best of LinkedIn and it's all jokes about people and the things that they've learned and it's like clearly that didn't happen and this was just set up that way or that's the joke that they make. Right. And so I think people, if the ultimate goal is not to amplify the world, right, and make it better by what you're sharing, I think this is where people start to get frustrated and fall. To your point, what's interesting is yes, there is this underlying— I was in a meeting with an executive from a very well-known VC who has read my posts because he referenced multiple things about my kid and coaching and separate things. So like he had read them and he was just like, and it was like, oh, okay. Like never, you know, never seen that. He was like, you know, on here or whatever.

Right.

And so, yeah, I mean, I do think, I do think sometimes it is difficult to pull through that ROI sometimes when you're building this. This executive signal. And like years ago where people would just get really, really frustrated with marketing campaigns and be like, we didn't close any deals. And it's like, hey man, it's not like you write 3 blogs and all of a sudden you're flush with leads.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's like the big thing is you can't, you have to be consistent. Like if you want to be toned, you kind of need to go to the gym more than 2, 3 times, right? It's gotta be a consistent pattern. Let me circle back to something you said earlier and that is, you actually, for Front Desk Fridays, have a structure and that structure helps you just be on the lookout for things, right? So you're already looking for what was, what made me laugh? What are the conversations that I had? And to your point, it's not just conversations with a client, with a prospect. It could be conversations with team members, vendors, partners, anybody. And I find that that creates the most authentic content you can ever find on the internet because it's not in a ChatGPT database waiting to be regurgitated with new words words. It's something that's real, something that's happening, and something that's authentic. You and I have both seen posts that are so obviously ChatGPT-generated. What do you think that that's doing to an executive's brand?

Oh, I mean, honestly, I think it's degrading it exponentially, right? You look lazy. It looks just like the same old stuff that's out there. People, it's inauthentic. I mean, there's just the reality is, is like, you know, time is our most precious commodity. And if I'm reading an executive's post and I'm not finding any value out of it, I find it very difficult that I'm going to believe they're going to like, you know, be respectful of my time, honor my time, probably like, you know, and so I do think it's actually, listen, I understand the value of using technology. I actually, I think it's fantastic in certain aspects. I do think that you know, using just straight up ChatGPT to write your posts, like honestly, don't write.

Yeah, save your time. I, yeah, I agree with you. I think it's completely destroying one's individual brand and voice because what you're doing is you're kind of just allowing an AI tool to have your voice for you. And I feel like the easiest way to actually create content is just to think about the last couple of conversations that you've had this week. We all have them. Every executive has conversations, whether it's with team members, things like— could be a coaching call with a new hire. It could be anything. And just think about what you learned from that call. What did they learn? And just talk about it. It's, it's not hard, right? It's something that can be trained and something that can be really replicated very consistently. So now, what advice do you give to other leaders? Because you speak with a lot of CEOs and you try to help them understand how to get their sales teams, you know, moving forward with closing deals and so on. And there's a lot of intricacies. And I think anybody who's listening, you've got to take a look at Will's company stuff. It is so rock solid. You're going to find some really good, useful stuff. Let me, let me switch the angle on this just a little bit. Is what do you advise other executives to do to help them encouraged to do kind of like what you're doing, you know, like posting something online? Is that part of the strategy that you recommend to them? Or, or is that not, not what you, what you suggest?

No, absolutely. I suggest all of the time, and specifically for smaller organizations, right? Smaller organizations, you can build a strong company brand by the executive signaling and presence that exists, right? Like, if If my sales guy is calling someone, right? And it's like, oh, you know, you know, I'm— this is Yossi from, from MySure Group. And someone has read it. It's like, okay, well, this— I know that group. I know these people. I know that guy. They have a good perspective. They're all science-based. There's something that's already there, right? And, you know, we work with some brilliant people. And it's like, you do understand that you're fighting against behemoths that have this incredible brand reputation. But what they don't have is you. They don't have your experience and your perspective. You need to get that out there. Two things you can do. Number one is just put it out there from an awareness standpoint. Number two is let your sales team know that you've put out these, you know, the, these posts or whatever that are relevant to the industry. And think about that touchpoint, Raj. I call you and you say, hey, you know, well, it's not the right time or whatever else. And I'm like, sounds great, Raj. I know as a CRO though, you're interested. I wanna send you this post that's really resonating with other CROs. No commitment. It's just my, my CEO wrote it. And I know that a lot of people comment on it. I'll go ahead and send that to you. Right. And there's just a touchpoint that I can create a relevant touchpoint. Right. And, and I think like people don't actually think about that. And it's interesting, right? Because often, often you have these CEOs that you believe just have all this confidence in the world. And the minute you ask them to put their perspective out into the world, it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Hmm. I don't.

I don't know if I want to do that. Right. And it's a little bit of a fear. And that fear is the same fear I had for 9 years before I did my first conference, which was, if I do this and I fail, then what am I? And if I write this and I put it out there and I get flamed or it's bad or no one responds, then am I as unique or as talented as I thought I was? And I'm like, that Should never be the outcome you're seeking. Just put it out there. You've gotten to where you've gotten.

Right. What do you say to the executive that is feeling that fear and just is not hitting the post button?

Yeah. Um, I say, hey, you wouldn't be where you are today if you didn't have some unique perspective or some unique skill that you can share with the world. Now, I'm not saying you're unique and you're the only person with this. What I am saying though is that not, not everybody in the world can say or do these things or understand these things. So just put it out there and don't worry about how people react. Like that's not gonna determine your success. This isn't, you put a post out there, no one reads it, doesn't mean you're a fail. Yeah. And, and, and quite honestly, it takes a long time to get 'em there, by the way, to, to get them to be able to feel comfortable posting. Yeah.

It, it, I think, I think you're right. It does. I, I, you know, I was at another meeting where, uh, I think probably some common friends were there. And, uh, and there was a technical founder who just was so resistant. He's like, Raj, I can't do what you do. Will, I can't do what you do. Um, I, I think about posting and I would rather just go back and start coding. And so I— what I shared with them was I said, that is your story. Talk about that exact feeling, because there are so many other technical founders who feel the exact same way, and that is your tribe. And, and, uh, you'd be surprised at how well you're gonna connect with those, the, that community. So I think, um, I think sometimes we might just get intimidated by seeing somebody else who's just farther ahead in their journey of doing this and thinking we can't replicate that cuz, you know, we're looking at this standard that is like, you know, somebody racing the Tour de France versus us just kind of walk, going around the neighborhood. So, yeah.

Can I jump in right there? Yeah. This is just for your audience, right? I still have that sense when I write something.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Which is like, and I, like, it's not the jokes and the quotes. Those are my things. Those are my personal things. And I'm like, I actually don't care how people respond to this. This is who I am. This is my experience. But when I'm writing around what I've heard or the business advice, I still get that feeling of like, is this any good? Like, my point is I've been doing this now, like, you know, consistently You know, LinkedIn posts consistently, you know, 4 times a week for over a year and a half. Wednesdays, Fridays, we're on, uh, issue 73 or 74 or something, right? Every single week. Um, have not missed a week, right? Not even during the holidays. But yet, yet, so my point is, is like, it's, it's okay to feel that way. You're putting something out into the world and it's human to feel like, is this good enough to share with the world? And, and I still feel that, like, I'll read it. and I will send it off to the editor and I'm like, and I will write to Rachel. I'll be like, I'm so sorry, this is a really bad one. And she's just like, what are you talking about?

Like, yeah.

You know, that's, yeah.

And I think a lot of times we're seeing people talk about LinkedIn getting less traction than it did just even 6 months ago. They're updating their algorithms. Where do you see this going? Do you see LinkedIn as still the place to go? Are there other avenues? I don't know, Substack, other places that you're exploring to see where you can publish?

Yeah. So, so to, so, and I went back to, you know, earlier I said, you know, I wanna do more video, right? So I, I do think, I think video consumption specifically as, as our consumers of our, of, of our content become younger, right? Like, and more digital, more and more digitally native, right? Like literally more and more digitally native every single generation, right? Than we are. I think video, I love Substack, by the way. I think Substack is, is, is great. There's a lot of great authors on there already. The community of Substack is one. I explored it. I haven't built the brand to the level that I want for me to like really commit to moving everything over there, but that is on the horizon for us. So on the horizon for us and specifically me is video, like more, much more snackable video content on one of the platforms, whether it's TikTok or Instagram. Um, or, and then Substack.

Very good. Very good. Yeah, it's good to kind of like keep watching it. And I know that, uh, there's now a debate on whether video works great on LinkedIn versus, uh, just text posts or posts with images and so on. And so, um, yeah, I don't know about you. I'm like, I'm doing all kinds of tests to see what works. And I tell you, it doesn't seem like any of those is as much of a factor as the hook is. And just regardless of whatever I'm posting, If that opening line creates an emotional connection, it's, it's, that's what seems to resonate regardless of whether you got a video post, like anything else. Are you finding something similar?

Absolutely. Like literally, it's so funny you say that because I'm like, oh, should I mention? I'm like, well, it didn't matter. I should do this. It doesn't matter. Right. And then I'll go back and look at the ones that like have been the best posts in terms of views, comments, et cetera. And it's like, oh, okay. Well, this like actually isn't boring from the very beginning. Like, you know, this is something that people like are like, okay, there's, there's some substance here. I also think of quite a bit around like, you know, and I haven't done such a great job on this. It's somewhere where I want to grow, which is understanding what's in that preview pane, right? Right before people open the more, right? Like, and I feel like sometimes I just want to get my story out there. And so I just get it out there and then I go back and I'm like, man, like, I wouldn't read this if I didn't know me. Yeah. So like, you know, and it's right. So I want to get better at that, like a little bit better at like, you know, just Exactly, like grabbing the reader from the very beginning.

Yeah. And for those of you tuning into this podcast, so I've actually got some additional guests on it, former TV news reporters, producers of like major morning news shows, and they share their storytelling tips. So tune into some of those episodes as well. So I want to just put that plug out there. Yeah, that's good. Pretty good. Well, what would you say to that one executive after they've posted and they haven't really gotten that traction, um, to just kind of keep going, uh, because it impacts sales? Is it just like develop the discipline, put it on your calendar? What do you say?

So number one is, first is like, is this something that you want to do, right? Like, if it's something that you want to do, then, you know, think about all— when you watch these videos of people learning to draw, And you see them draw their first face and where they are a year later, and then where they are 2 years later. I, I'm fascinated by those because I'm fascinated about someone working on their craft and just getting better, you know, by these just compounding effects of like just effort and learning and everything else. So that's number one. Like if you don't have the commitment to it, you know, and the passion, it's, it's just not gonna work, right? So you need kind of both of them together. Um, so that's like number 1. Number 2 is, is, you know, give it a run. So for me, like literally it was like, okay, I'm just going to commit to this for 45 days on like 45 days. Let me see how, what happens. And then I realized that I was enjoying myself regardless of how many views something got. And so then I was like, well, this is something that I actually really like and I think I'm getting better at it. I don't know if I am, but I think I am, right? And so it became much easier the next 45 days. And all of a sudden at 90 days, it's like, this is what I do. I'm like, I'm now like a student of the world and trying to see how like what I'm experiencing can, can be used in a, in a way that will help influence, you know, someone's day, whether positive or learning something or whatever it might be. And so, yeah, I mean, I think you gotta take the time to make it become a habit.

I fully agree with that. And, and I was hesitant when I first started posting too, and kind of like going to the gym, you sort of develop that habit. And once you do it to some degree, it's almost addictive. I mean, I actually write more posts than I actually post online. So I let it simmer for a day or two, and I'm like, oh, do I really want to say that? And like, oh yeah, that's kind of—

I don't.

And I think the other important thing, and, and I, I think I see some of it with, with your post, I do see it with other people, is that they, they will share a message more than one time. And I think sometimes there's this feeling of, well, I already said that 5 months ago. Well, your audience is different now. It's probably grown and there's people that haven't seen it. Or maybe is there a different way you can spin what, whatever you said? And, and that can even be your origin story. I mean, there's probably like a million ways for you to talk about the lessons you learned from being a 17-year-old at a butcher store, uh, to now, right?

Yeah, no, absolutely. And that is, that's so funny because for a long time I was tracking Fuentes Fridays, like, what did I hear? I was like, and you know, whatever, and the quotes and all this. And I was like, adding all this complexity to what I was doing.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, wait a second, like, I don't even know if the same people are reading it, like, you know, 9 months later. What am I worried about? Like, this is what happened this week and it's an important lesson. So clearly it's important enough that I'm reteaching this thing, or clearly, you know, whatever it is. Like, now every now and then, like, Rachel will be like, uh, we've already seen that, like, you know, that, that tweet about that, you know, cool thing, like, Pick something else, right? Like, sure, like pick something else. Um, and that's okay. That's okay. Because that's, that is what it is.

It is what it is. Well, thank you so much. This is a, a really insightful conversation. Uh, I appreciate your time. And to everybody listening, uh, like I mentioned, go to the Meister Group for some amazing sales training, uh, on how you can coach yourself, your team, uh, to uplift and generate a lot more sales. Well, thank you.

Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun. I really, and I cannot believe how much time has passed by because it feels like we just started. So thank you so much. Right. All right. I will see you soon. Absolutely.