Episode 1 on The Power of Conversations

Hi there. This is the first episode of Spontaneous Conversations. I'm Ravi Gundlapalli, the founder and CEO of Mentor Cloud and I'm speaking with Rajesh Sethi. Rajesh, yeah.

Great to start this series. Ravi, I'm Rajesh Sethi. I'm a serial entrepreneur and I write books and I teach courses. And Ravi, what are we talking about today?

You know, I find that there are certain people when I'm on the phone with them or having conversations, I feel really good after that. And something amazing comes out when you're in conversations with a few people. And so I want us to talk about the power of conversations.

Yeah, it's a great topic, Ravi. And I agree with you. There is in my first book I wrote about energizers and dissipators.

In the chapter called Likability and energizers are those people. When you finish the conversation with them, you feel good about yourself, not about them, because usually they are smart people, but you feel good about yourself. Dissipators are those people. You have conversations with them. At the end of it, you feel little bit down or you think something has been taken away from you. And it's interesting what happens. Ravi, those people don't change. So whenever they are having conversations, whatever, be the medium, they could be in person. Sometimes you receive their email, you are already, your mind is already thinking, oh.

My God, oh my God, what is this conversation? Email, right? Yeah. I like the way you have separated the energizers and dissipators because I remember one of my friends used to tell me that the positive feeling that somebody has after they have a conversation with you actually come back as your silent blessings. So when you meet somebody and they're walking away from each other, the other person is saying, wow, what a great person I met today. That apparently the universe captures it and brings it back to you as.

Blessing. And imagine getting thousands and thousands of such silent blessings. And imagine the power it can have on your own contribution to the world.

Yeah, it's fascinating for sure. So during our courses, like when we teach first time entrepreneurs, people generally say, you know, you have to hustle and get things done. Everything starts with a conversation. But how do we have a conversation that will move the needle? It's a fascinating story because everything is conversation. Either you are having a conversation with yourself or like we are having a conversation with each other. That's all there is. Otherwise you are sleeping, you are talking to yourself or talking to someone else. But unfortunately, Ravi, you and I know that the art of having A good conversation is not taught in school because people think, because they know how to talk, they know how to have a conversation. At the end of it, nothing will happen. So there are few elements to it. One is, how do we make sure that you can move the needle by the end of this conversation? Let us say we are talking to Bob. So few things that we need to know is Bob's context. So what can Bob do or what can Bob cannot do? You know the context. You cannot give him advice as if you are talking to Bob as the CEO of Microsoft. Of course, the CEO of Microsoft does not need any advice from us. But you cannot assume that he has the context to take action at that level.

Correct.

That is the first rule. Second, all his belief system about whether he can do it or not do it because he might have the capacity, but he may not believe that he has the capacity. That also we should know.

Then his strengths. There are some things that is very easy for Bob to do. There are some things that may be very easy for you, but very complicated for Bob because it's based on the strength. Sometimes Bob is in the zone, sometimes he is not in the zone. You need to know it. Then Bob's limitations. So happens that Bob can't hear in one ear or something. There is some physical limitation or there is a limitation of the mind. So all those captured together will decide what action Bob can take or what action Bob cannot take.

Yeah, I have a different perspective. Again, it depends on what kind of conversation you are having. Like if it is a conversation between a mentor and a mentee, then you want to make sure that that conversation is leading to something positive. There's something happening. But if people like you and I are talking, I don't need to move the needle. Technically, there's nothing that I want you to do or nothing that you want me to do. But a good conversation in my mind is when it touches my heart and something powerful comes out because I'm in the company of somebody very inspirational, somebody that I'm enjoying saying what I'm saying. So I feel a good conversation also kind of digs deeper and forces you or makes you say things that you wouldn't otherwise say to yourself or you wouldn't otherwise say to somebody with whom you're having a bad conversation.

Yeah, very good point, Ravi. Very good. Let's double click on it. What makes us think that something touched our heart or something didn't touch our heart? So we may not be able to define it very clearly, but let's just talk about it because otherwise we won't be capitalizing on the power of conversation. So let's say, in my opinion, I'm just thinking out loud here, a good conversation we are having. And then it touches my heart.

One thing that I can think of is it resonates in the same frequency that I am thinking because I can relate to it.

It is aligned.

It is aligned with it. Like, for example, before recording this episode, we were talking about a movie. And you said sometimes you get tears in your eyes because of the mirror neurons that are acting. Because you said the cyst brain does not know whether it is real or it is manufactured, but it can mirror. The mirror neurons come into action and you resonate with it. So we can follow the same thing and something that I can relate to. So the second thing that I am thinking is it makes me stop, reflect and think something that I. This is very interesting kind of thing. Third thing that I can think of is it will change the worldview that I am having in a more powerful way.

Because you're hearing somebody else say it.

Yes.

So the other person's. Whatever they are saying, it can actually help you change your own mental models. Because as long as you are thinking and you are talking, you are reiterating your own mental model, but only when you talk to somebody else where you are enjoying it. This mental model can get more refined.

Correct. Fourth one that I am thinking, Ravi, is basically, if some person is very motivated to do something and so many noises are going on because it must have been a tiring day, bad day, something happened, ups and downs. If you are an entrepreneur, it is like a roller coaster ride. And one of those conversations that touch the heart will be. It can give them hope that, you know what, this is all good, but I have more oomph to do something better tomorrow.

Correct.

It just lifts them.

It can be very reinforcing in terms of who you really are. And I think this.

Making sure the conversation is going in the right direction is in your hands.

Yes.

And what I found is, you know, some people, when they're having a bad conversation, it's not because either of the people are bad. It started bad. It started with a very tactical item. Hey, you do the project, the other person may just have had a bad day at home, may have just, you know, has a health situation.

So unfortunately, when you start a conversation with very tactical in mind, it can turn bad. Whereas if you say, hey, how's it going? I haven't seen you all morning. How are you feeling? Oh, by the way, I Wanted to talk about this particular project. How did it do then? You are essentially touching the human first before you get to the action or to a task or the job. If you miss the human element, then the conversation can become really bad. And I have a story I can tell you.

Yeah, why don't you say that?

Okay. So recently we were interviewed. I was supposed to be interviewed by a TV reporter. So she came and at that time I was talking to somebody else. And she was in a very bad mood. She was yelling at everybody. She moved everything in our booth and said, either you now or never. So I was observing that she was in a bad mood, but I couldn't say. I couldn't stop who I am talking with. So I kind of waited for a couple of minutes. When my other conversation finished, I walked over and said, would you need a break? And she said, yes, I've been doing this from seven in the morning. So I told her, why don't you take a break and then in the meantime we will arrange everything. She came back and first thing I asked is, so what's your name? And then she said something. She said, oh, you're from this part of India. Oh, yeah. Oh, that part. I mean, I love people like you. You guys are so generous. There was a smile on her face that completely removed the context of why we are talking. It is not about interview. It is not about who is late or who is on time. She was smiling. We had a conversation about her background, her family. So I think people should realize that conversations cannot ignore the human element.

Beautifully said, Rudyard. I love the story. And the keyword that I took away from the story is thoughtfulness. So you are being thoughtful. You didn't look at her as a TV reporter. You first looked at her as a fellow human being who is also going through ups and downs, work pressures and everything. You touched her heart by saying, first let me recognize you as one more human being like me. I am going through ups and down. You are going through ups and downs. So let us start there, and then it level sets the field, and then after that it moves forward.

Because conversations eventually lead to relationships. Yes, Correct. So if you want to build relationships with people, because that's what human society is all about, relationships. We exist because we like to have a dinner with other people. We would like to have a family with children and things like that, and everything is rooted in the conversations. If you don't take care of those conversations, you may end up.

Not getting close to some amazing people. So the art of conversations that we are talking about today actually starts with you. Connect to the human side of the person, whether it's your spouse, your co worker or somebody working for you. If you do that, you can actually come back smiling at the end of the workday because you have had awesome conversations. You didn't do work.

Yeah, that's beautifully said. Again, see, a few years ago I was running this company called Sigmex and It was the third year and it was always quite stressful. It was 2002 and we were just drinking from a straw kind of thing. Breathing from a straw as they say. And then I had a mentor and he's still a very good friend and everything. His name is Yakov Solovichik, he's from Russia.

Brilliant.

He was a four time CEO and then during the New year day he brought a book to my table and then I said, this is for you. You should read this, it's a gift. But I expect you to report back after reading this. You have one week and the title of the book, which even today it's the number one in the book recommended list for me. It's called Fierce Conversations.

Fierce Conversations.

So I told Jakob, because, you know, I am a simple person, I don't need to have fierce conversations. He said, he just smiled and he said, you better finish it because next week we are having a conversation about it. Whether you like it or not, it doesn't matter to me. You have to read it. So Susan Scott, who is the author, is a good friend of mine now. But the biggest thing, if I can summarize the whole book in one sentence, she says, while no single conversation.

Can guarantee that it will shift the trajectory of your life, career or a relationship, any single conversation can. What is the conversation that has your name on it? So what she says is if you are just open and have that conversation with that open mind, any single conversation can have the power to change the trajectory of your life, career or a relationship. So if you. After I read that and internalized it, I started becoming more aware that whether I am present to the conversation or not present to the conversation. Yes. Because any single conversation could change the trajectory of my life, career or a relationship. And my life has been so different because I am now more present to the conversation.

I cannot agree with you more as an entrepreneur. And I've always kind of feel that you don't go into a conversation expecting an outcome because then you're not present in the true sense because you're focused on the end. It's good that Stephen Covey said Begin with the end in mind, but not in conversations. Conversations have to evolve. Just like a flower blossoms. You can't force it. You can't say, I'm going to bring everybody to this topic. That's called a lecture. But conversations are not lectures. Conversations are two people echoing each other. It's like I'm throwing something at you and it came to you in a very soft way. It's like I'm throwing a ball of flowers and it didn't hit you right. You got like your smooth feeling and you threw it back at me. It's almost like two people playing with a soft ball that both of us don't get hurt and you're having an awesome time. That I think is a great conversation.

And you didn't use one word. You said. It's like playing with a softball with each other. The keyword I took away there is play is a play. A good conversation is not work, but it's a play. Because when you have play connotates fun. So in the whole process, you are having fun, but at the end of it, you feel good about yourself. The other person feel good about himself or herself. It will be an amazing feeling. Like, I am sure we stopped for 10, 15 minutes, but it didn't feel like anything.

Yeah, it didn't feel like work. And I want to add one more word to the play part. It's a very collaborative play. It's not a competitive play. You're not competing for attention. You're not competing that those things eventually end up arguments. A competitive play is an argument. A collaborative play I think is a conversation.

Yeah. Beautifully said. So just to wrap up this episode, Ravi, because we said we're not going to make it like a mega.

Yeah. The way it is going, we can go forever.

We can go on forever. So I'm thinking that we should same on parting thought. Both of us can think of something. It's just to close the loop. Did you have anything in mind?

Yeah. I think.

Your success in life and your happiness is directly related to the kinds of conversations you have. So I urge all the listeners to pay very special attention to the conversations. And if the conversation is going in a negative direction, you have the choice to leave. Nobody is forcing you to be in a conversation. So make sure that your conversations are positive and you're feeling good afterwards and you want to have the conversation again with that person. It's very, very important. It's in your hands.

Beautifully said. If I can rephrase it and I can say that based on what I Heard from you. My parting thought would be, if you want to lift the level of your life, you have to lift the level of your conversations.

Fantastic.

So that way you start thinking, am I having the right level of conversations? Am I having the uplifting conversations? And sometimes people say, but I don't know a lot of people, that I can have the uplifting conversations. Because everybody is wanting to talk about movies and all those things. I'm not saying that you should not talk about it. Video games, movies, games that are happening, or politics or weather and everything. But here we are talking about uplifting your life, which means you have to pick and choose the people that will have those conversations. Now, if you try to punch at three or four levels above your weight class, then it will be difficult because the other person says, what is in it for me? Because they are having conversations with their own level of people. So my thinking is you have to earn your way into the next level of weight class. So how you do it, you start contributing silently or directly or indirectly so that you somehow become part of those conversations that are one or two levels higher than where you are.

Correct. I think just to add one more closing comment, is two people talking is not a conversation. A conversation has also lead to something creative. If you are just talking about facts, I wouldn't call a conversation. Even though everybody say we're having conversation, that's actually a wrong use of the word. Because you're just exchanging facts. Either you are complaining about something or you're just sharing information. But a true conversation, when it becomes powerful, is something new has fallen on the table. Because that's the only power that can happen between two people. The true magic is between the two people in the middle that gets created. And as part of that play that we talked about, that collaborative play.

Beautifully said. Maybe, Ravi, you can end with saying, where can they learn more about you? What is the website?

Yeah, absolutely. So this is the first episode. So thank you for listening.

You can Visit our website, mentacloud.com and we're going to continue these conversations on various topics. And again, there's going to be spontaneous. We're not going to prepare for it. These are not scripted. It is just coming out just between two people who love to share something straight from their heart.

Yeah, beautifully said. And you can learn more about me at my own website, Rajeshseti.com and there is a blog there. And then.

It'S like Ravi said, the whole thing started because we both were having a ton of conversations. Morning, evening, middle of the night, on various topics and it was always uplifting for both of us. So this the first episode where we are thinking that we are, let's say we will record these conversations. Let's see what comes out of it. So your feedback is very important for us.

Exactly. It's a very live experiment.

Yeah. Correct. So it's an experiment in spontaneous conversations. So signing off, have a great day ahead and thanks for listening.

Excellent. We want your spontaneous feedback also.