Are you Authentic A*F? | Introduction 1 | Session 1

Well, welcome and happy Monday. I'm Dr. Stephanie Ardry, and here with me is Rene Deceuninck, and we want to welcome you to Authentic AF: How We Can Help You Shift Your BPM for Outstanding Outcomes. And I know you're wondering, what the heck is BPM? Rene, how you doing today?

I'm doing fine. Thank you so far. Thank you so much for having me here. It's really It's going to be amazing, I promise you. Yeah, it's good.

And so when we talk about— we were talking offline about this idea of not only mindset, but the importance of having certain mindset and mindset shifts, but then also body language. Because again, when we talk about people wondering why it is they come across as inauthentic, a lot of times it's because what you're saying and what your body is saying are not incongruent. So, you know, would you agree that, you know, body language sometimes can tell people other things than what you intend?

Yeah, absolutely. Yesterday I had a conversation with somebody. I was invited— Sunday, yesterday, right? I was invited to a barbecue, and we had an amazing time. But, um, they asked me the question, hey, you're into body language, right? I said, yeah, sure, sure. He says— and they say, how does that work? And I said, well, listen, I can— like, we talked about a lot of things, but I said, I can discover a lie in less than 3 seconds. They said, what? I said, okay, what is my body language telling you now? And I said, you don't want to know. And we had fun, you know, we had a lot of fun. And then, uh, but then, you know, the best way to act in a conversation is just be yourself. That's the best body language. Yeah, absolutely. But we always have fun when that happens, when people What is my body language telling you? And backstage, hapo happens a lot. When I'm with other speakers in different countries, they always say, "Hey Rene, what is my body language telling you?" I say, "Yeah, don't worry about it.

It's okay." But that's so important because people don't realize, you know, I was going through this recently. I've been having conversations. Of course, we all have been doing a lot of online meetings and conversations. And one of the things that I think is so horrible is especially when somebody is representing an organization and they're trying to complete a sales call. So if you come online and you don't have your camera on, I'm not buying from you. Here's why. One, I don't know you already. It's not like I met you in person before. So if this is our first point of communication and I have no ability to see your face or interact, I don't trust you. You have not done anything to identify that you want to establish a relationship. And more importantly, it's that body language, right? And so I guess my question is a little bit loaded is not only are you able to identify person's body language when you're present live with them, but what do you notice about their body language when you're interacting virtually through, like, for example, a digital platform such as this, or like on a Zoom call?

Yeah. And especially in front of a camera, when people can't look into a camera, for example, or they can't, or they're touching their ear, or they're like scratching, and there's there's always something. People are sitting like this and then like a lot of space above their head, or they're like, you know, there's always— I mean, watch out for these little details when you go online because it says an awful lot about you in the first place. And secondly, you should be able to really look into the camera and have your hands like— if your hands are viewable, make sure your hands are like, you know, expressing like confidence. And, but yeah, it's very important you look into the camera, you make sure the camera is at the height of your eyes. And you make sure you look into like— because we often all look to the person, right? And we're looking to the person, looking— this is not really making sense. You have to look into the camera, right? And that's, that's, that's has an awful of an amazing— just bear with me one second. Mama is sneaking in. Mama is watching. Sorry, I'm staying with some friends here. Sorry for that. Really appreciate it. Really sorry. But the thing is that it's very important to pay attention to the details, to pay attention to the light, to pay attention to the sound, to pay attention to a lot of details that have an influence on the conversation that always— that would also enhance the credibility of the conversation. The credibility of what you share with people is super, super, super important. Momma is not here, can you do it, Hector?

Well, that is such a perfect response because when we think about, you know, you and I both being in the role of founder and CEO of new organizations, and so in that role we are both charged with not only making a lot of presentations, but we're engaging people for different purposes. You know, the CEO has the job of not only selling the vision of the organization that they're creating, so it's very important to come across credible. Oh yeah. So that people believe and lean into what it is you're saying. And then not only the people, you know, when you think about you have both internal and external stakeholders that you're looking to build relationship with. So you have all different levels of, you know, relationships. So you have your subordinates, you have, you know, other folks who are peers, you may have others who are superior, you know, your boards that you're looking into leaning into. And in all of those relationships, although they are different, they all require a certain level of understanding who you are in those relationships and what it is you want each of those communications to communicate effectively, not only verbally but definitely visibly when they're looking at your body language, your facial expressions, your energy, all of those things. So this is, this is really more critical I think that people may realize.

I mean, when you look at NLP, neuro-linguistic programming, is about neuro— the brain— linguistic— language. And then how do you program that language based on your thinking? Neuro-linguistic programming. However, body language is a small little part from NLP. But what I'm doing is I'm extracting that. And why is that? Do you know that verbal communication is only 7% of all communication? 93% is non-verbal, and the 93% non-verbal is 55% body language and 38% tonality. Because when I ask you the question, how many times do you pay attention to your tonality when you speak to somebody? 99% of people say, oh, I don't, I don't do that. Of course you don't, because you do it on a subconscious level. And how many of you do pay attention to your body language when you interact with somebody. But don't pay attention to that. Of course you don't, because you know, you're not thinking about it. It's on a subconscious level. And do you know that when we communicate from brain to brain, we transfer 40 bits of data per second? 40.

Wow.

But when subconsciously, when we communicate, so the nonverbal, which is the body language and tonality, is not 40 bits of data per second. Is 40 million bits of data per second. And this is science. This is not me, like, I found out yesterday. This is pure science. So then I ask people, like, if 93% of communication is nonverbal and 80% of society doesn't even know about it, what would happen if you would learn these secrets and apply them? What results would you have in the future? And that is so important to understand that people say body language, come on, man, that's for hippies. No, pay attention.

This—

I mean, sometimes I get that answer and I said no, you would be surprised. They now hired me in the Middle East in a company that is doing deals in oil and gas and petrol, and they want me— they hired me to come in and learn them to use proper body language and negotiation techniques, and body language is part of that. If they do that, I think there must be a reason for that. Right. But what we do is in general terms and in sales and leadership, we gave them the basics. And when they say, hey, listen, we want to know more because this is too interesting. I said, of course it is. Do you see my head? It's too interesting or too interesting, right? These are all signs I watch out for. I pay attention to it because it's my job. But it is a fact that body language on, or nonverbal communication, let's put it like this, you got verbal, nonverbal. The nonverbal is 93%, according to Professor Mehrabian from Iran in those days. He's a scientist. He said that 93% is nonverbal. And then I say, if 80% doesn't know about it or applies a little bit of it, man, if you start understanding how it works, it will blow you away, the results you get from it. So, but then I'm thinking like, if we could teach people or show them a way to learn body language and add some mindfulness to it, what you are doing, this is your expertise, right?

Right.

That would blow the results through the roof, right?

It's so amazing. And it's so interesting because I find it great really that even organizations are recognizing that these are important things. You know, as organizations struggle with things like, uh, there was a couple studies last week, I remember reading, uh, about organizations, some of them facing, um, or it was on a news cycle and they were talking about inside or internal organizations attempting to be overly positive, but how that fake positivity was actually producing more harmful outcomes because it's almost like this fake Pollyanna ideal. And that's usually what happens inside of organizations as your organization grow and span, the leadership tends to be disconnected from what's really happening on the line, you know, within the other layers of the organization, because people sort of adapt to whatever has been demonstrated as cultural norms. So if someone says, well, we just want to focus on the positivity, but irrespective of the authentic— because authentically there are going to be times where the news is not positive. We can find positive elements of the news, but the news is not positive. So we want to be able to recognize what are the facts of the news and then where we can make particular shifts. And I think that that's what people feel. They, they feel a sort of an incongruence when you're presenting something and in their gut they know that that's not factual, it's inauthentic, and they don't want to lean into those things. But it actually creates little trauma.

Yeah, true.

And this is manifesting in mental health issues, and it's showing up as stressors and also as burnout. And so as those things happen first mentally, then they begin to manifest physically. And so you see then the need and dependence on, you know, prescription. And so there begins this kind of cycle that continues to evolve, because when you think about it, at the very core the core, the, the root cause was never properly addressed. And so we just keep kind of reacting to each new symptom that emerges rather than getting to the root cause. And I think that that's why this whole conversation, the goal was to really tie into how can we be authentic, how can we demonstrate and present ourselves from an authentic standpoint irrespective of the circumstances around us.

Well, one of the things I would add, I mean, as a little tip I'm going to give away here, is that find out who you are in the first place. Because it is so important to ask a couple of questions to yourself to find out who you are, and then you can ask the same questions to somebody else to find out who they are. And then if you say, listen, they are more reserved, like more solo player, more like, you know what I mean? Is it's like they're very like quiet, they're very— but I am like more an eccentric, I mean like extrovert, I mean, and they are introverted. But when you find out who you are and you find out who somebody else is, you step out of your life, or not all your life, but out of your character, so to say, or way of living, and you start living their language. You start speaking their language. And when you start speaking introvert language to an introvert, they will say when you leave, wow, this is the first person who understands me. And the only thing you did was stepping out of your character or your lifestyle, your way of speaking. You speak their language, right? And you will level with those people in a very natural way, in an authentic way. Because you can fake as much as you want. Sooner or later doesn't work. But if you are very honest and you know you're leveling and you ask honest questions and straightforward questions, because that's another mistake a lot of people make. They do the talking, talking, talking, talking. The way of communicating is the best speakers are the best listeners. Did you know that?

Yes.

But how can you listen is by asking questions. And which questions? Open questions. So if you know you're an extrovert, you're speaking to an introvert, stop being an extrovert, start asking introvert questions, and then, well, and there are people like, they will open up. But that is the first thing. It's like, you know, these fighter jets, like Tom Cruise in Top Gun, when they're chasing each other, and is that like computer system looking for that heat signal in front of them? Once they are locked in and they shoot, they can't miss anymore. Because they are leveled. So you're like, and they fire. And you know, it's the same with our brain. If you can level with somebody, you can do lots of things, you can accomplish so much more. But you have to do it, in terms of our title, as authentic as F, right? Otherwise, I mean, let's keep it polite here, but that is the whole thing, to do it as authentic as possible. And in the end, you're going to gain so much more, for sure. So much more.

Oh, it's so true. When we think about it, I mean, I guess if we were to look back and we'll continue to not only look back, but to look forward into future case studies where we see and apply this in organizations and are able to capture measurable outcomes. I think about it when I think about organizations, because even as we're setting up, you know, our activities. That's the, the shift that we've moved into. Our team is working on all of ourselves, and we're talking about, you know, what's the customer experience and what is the authentic experience that we want to tie to a value proposition that we can literally consistently deliver on, right? These are promises that we want to make throughout our brands, and how are we going to, one, not only develop but communicate How are we going to make sure that what we believe we're delivering is being delivered? And the only way we can do that is by engaging in communication with our target market segments. And so the very important beginning that you stated is how listening is essential. And so often listening is a skill that oftentimes people have not truly mastered. They're more waiting to respond as opposed to really being present to listen to what's being stated. Would you find that you've experienced a little bit of the distinctions between that, and how does that then also impact body language?

Well, it's a fact when you ask questions, people, you give people significance in the first place because they can do the talking.

Right?

If you ask a question, say, how come you're here today? Is there a specific reason? Could you like— I would love to know, could you share that with me? And they go like, oh well, we're here because— and then while they are speaking, in fact, when you think about it, you give that person significance. They feel like important. That's the first thing. The second thing is that you can find out if the body language is congruent with what they say. You can look at their eyes, where their eyes go in when they're saying something, if they're saying something emotional or rational. When they say something emotional, something they should remember, they should look in a different— I'm not going to share it here right now, otherwise people are not going to come to your training workshops.

You know, they won't get it in an instant.

These are secrets. But the thing is, where the way they are looking while they're saying something, when you say something rational or emotional, Sometimes people have a tendency to look in a certain direction, but if the direction is not correct, my next question will be based on that very moment that I saw the eyes went the wrong way. When I get another red flag and another red flag and another red flag, that means that I will be able to find out if they're lying, yes or no, just by asking questions. And while people are speaking, you can prepare your next question. You got time to think about your next question, and most of the time it's based on the answer they give. I was in those days with Tony Robbins. He would ask somebody, why are you here? And the person would say, oh, because 1, 2, 3, X, Y, Z. And he would say, that's interesting, why are you here? And the person would say, what? I just told you, because the whole story. I said, that's interesting, tell me more about this. Why this? Why that? Why the— the only thing he did was why, why, why, why, why. At the end he says back in the US, they call me the Y guy. But these are systems to find out not only information, but also to see if body language is really congruent with what people say. And sometimes people are not at ease and they sometimes don't look in your eyes. They are afraid to look into your eyes. But that's maybe of a lack of confidence. Maybe something happened in the past we don't know about. Because this is not always in the moment. We got people who got harassed or people who went through all kinds of things in life when they're in their youth, for example, and then they are 40, 45 and they are in a conversation. They can't look into your eye. It's not based on the moment, maybe based from the past, from a very far past. But yeah, the reason I hammer on this to ask so many questions during conversation is to is for all kinds of reasons. And, uh, yeah, I can only say, um, body language is such a huge thing in, in communication. Um, I was in Thailand in, in, uh, and was it March, end of March? Yeah. And, uh, I had, I think, 40 people in the room, and they said, yeah, but they're very— these people are very reserved, you know, they're like, no, you know. I'm like, I said, give me 5 minutes. So I used my body language to get them out of their chair stairs and dance on the music, which was not about to happen according to certain people who know the culture very well. And those type of people, but hey, and they were a very amazing audience of these participants, were amazing. I love that. Still when I think about it right now, and I go, wow, we had an amazing time in, in that, in, in Thailand. But thing is, it's, it's, it's asking questions and asking questions according to the character you find— you found out who that person is. If I would ask you 3, 4 questions, I would find out that you are an introvert or an extrovert, a solo player, a team player. You are more reserved or not. You are this, you're that. And, and then I would change my questions and adapt to your character and level with you. And there's like 5, 6 ways of leveling with people. And when you would apply all 5, 6, 7 of them your conversations and results from those conversations will go through the roof. I guarantee you that.

It's so interesting, and, and I believe you. And, you know, when I think about not only what you're saying, it's also why in my philosophy, when we talk about mindset, I do a lot of, um, assessments around understanding not only individuals but their leadership style and how they interact in teams. And so some of the tools that I've been exposed to over the journey of being able to unpack leadership style include like 360. We're able to have a 360 assessment. I love that tool because it allows a person to look at both who they report to as well as who reports to them and then their peers. It really gives feedback, a feedback loop of how it is you're showing up in all of these different relationships. DiSC is another tool that allows you to understand a little bit in terms of your preferences. I love Myers-Briggs. I love StrengthFinders. Again, these tools begin to reveal something that you said. In order to be authentic, first, who am I? Where do I begin to learn who I am without just being in my head about who I think I am? Because who I think I am versus how I'm landing in these other relationships may not be the truth. I may think I'm landing in a certain way, but truly, if other people were to give me feedback, it might be a little bit different than what I expect. And so what do you find, I guess, in those instances where you're working with a group or you're working with someone and what you're finding is they have a lack of awareness, even an understanding of how their body language is failing to be in alignment with maybe what it is they believe they're communicating? How have you kind of in that situation, one, noticed, and then also, you know, what type of shifts have you been able to make in a scenario like that?

Well, first of all, depends on the person who sits in front of you. That's the first thing. I had a lady in London and she asked me for some guidance in her life and, you know, a bit of life coaching. And she started the conversation and after not not even a minute. I said, would you please stop and stop lying to me?

Wow.

She says, what? I said, stop lying to me. You're lying. She says, no, I'm not. I said, yes, you are. She says, how do you know? I said, listen, first of all, who's the coach in here? Secondly, I, I watch micro expressions. I read body language. And the lady started crying. I said, why are you crying? She says, well, 'Yeah, you're right, for a bit I've been lying.' I said, 'Why would you lie? It's a waste of your time, my time, and especially your money. Don't do that. Let's rewind and start all over again.' And she came up with a completely different story, and I could read from the signs she was straightforward. She said the things as they were. That's one thing. However, if you are with a superior and you read the signs and the signs are not congruent with the words, You have to watch out with that because in the end they're your superior. For example, um, which is a long— it's a long time ago, so Monica Lewinsky, the story about Monica Lewinsky, right, and Bill Clinton, right? We did an analysis while he was interviewed, uh, in a room where he was attacked by a journalist, so he didn't have the time to prepare himself. The way he reacts And there's a video, it's online, it's available everywhere. And but when you see how he reacts and you read the body language and the microexpressions, you find out in an instant he's not saying the truth. Whereas afterwards, for national television, he came up with a story that was pre-chewed by somebody to give the impression he didn't do anything wrong. And this is psychology, but the body language during that attack with this journalist and then the pre-tuned interview— he didn't even move during that when he was doing that declaration in front of the camera. He didn't move at all. Why is that, you think? And there's nothing against Bill Clinton. I mean, he's a good guy. I mean, I love him and blah blah blah, but the thing is It's, it's pre-tuned. He's prepared for that. And most leaders on the planet have 3, 4 coaches every day, from the morning when they woke up until the night they go to bed. And they get so much guidance— do, don't do this, don't do that. This is a protocol, that's normal, right? But that is to come back to, uh, what we were talking about, is that in, in the first case, I could really say things as they were to that lady. But when you have a superior, you have to watch out, right? You have to watch out your words, what you say, how you say what your questions are, etc., etc., because you don't want them to have them against you. But what you could do is prepare a question and say, listen, do you know why I'm asking that question? Because I had a feeling in my stomach, you know, the gut feeling. And then you can like bring it in such a way they don't feel attacked they don't feel pulled down and go like, oh wow, that's interesting, I would love to, I would love to know more about this. You know what I mean?

Absolutely, absolutely. It's so true. It's amazing. You know, Rene Deceuninck, I think we're gonna have a blast having these conversations. Um, this is just the first, this is the opening, you know, we're kind of laying the foundation of some of the things that we can talk about. This is going to be you know, I think breakthrough opportunities for those out there not realizing the importance of body language, but also the value of particular mindset shifts. We see it, we hear it, but it's also timely. You know, a lot of times organizations around Q4, which we're in Q4 of '24, as organizations began to set their forecast for 2025 into 2026, depending upon what type of fiscal period they're operating under. But around this time, there's typically a lot of planning. Oftentimes organizations are going to have some type of pause for holiday and reflection, and within that planning— but most organizations that expect to survive are looking at what are the things that we can identify and improve upon for our next fiscal period of growth.

I can only say, right, you're not planning to fail, you're planning to grow. I can only say, if you really want to take your organization, your leadership, your sales, whatever you want to call it, if you want to take it to the next level, you have to learn certain techniques to get to that next level. And body language is— and mindfulness is definitely a part of it. Because your mindset is everything. It's where everything starts, right, in your mind. So mindfulness, if you analyze the word, you know, it says enough, right? But add some body language to it, you'll definitely will go to the next level. And leadership and HR, uh, human resources, in sales, and it doesn't matter what you— again, what you call it, but if you really want to go to that next level, you have to learn certain techniques and certain ways of thinking and applying Because learning something is good, but applied knowledge is priceless, isn't it?

It absolutely is. And so we really believe that through this Authentic AF conversation that we can help you get through to your authentic self and be able to not only deliver that effectively through your communications, but have your body language reflect and support your statements. So that you are actually landing the way that you hope that you're landing. Um, what else do you think we can leave our guests with this particular time as we're introducing them to a reason to come back next time and join us again?

What I would like to share before leaving is you and I, we both traveled the planet, right? We went through many countries too. We, we saw many cultures, many religions, many you know, different people, different lifestyles. And I think what I would leave people with is that it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, what you do. Join us next time. I am pretty sure you're going to learn something and take something away from what Stephanie is sharing, what I'm sharing. Um, that's— yeah, that's what I would like to leave with people. Like, hey, just join us, and if it's not your cup of tea, that's okay too. But I think it's going to be your cup of tea.

Absolutely. In fact, you can join us with a cup of tea. How about that?

Exactly, exactly.

Absolutely. Well, you want to tell people where they can find out more about our, uh, joint, uh, training opportunities and, um, kind of plug into us going forward? I think I'll share the link to the website and maybe you can also just give them a little bit about you know, what we're doing.

Um, it's Business Presence Mastery, but do you have the link?

Uh, yes, I just posted it in the comments section. So for anyone that would like to get more information about Rene and I and how we're collaborating to help you and your organization unlock your authentic selves by basically delivering 100% on both that body language and that mindset to produce outcomes We're your team.

We're ready for you. Absolutely.

Well, thank you guys again for tuning in today. We hope to see you again next week. Join us for the next episode of Authentic AF BPM Shifts to Produce Outstanding Outcomes. Take care, guys. We'll see you next week.

Ciao. Bye-bye.