How To Get Booked on Podcasts as a Beginner Coach Without a Name or Following

Every day, 20 million videos uploaded on YouTube. Every single day. On Instagram, 100 million. On Facebook, 350 million posts per day. This is why it's so hard to get attention online right now, especially if you're a beginner coach with no name, no brand, and nobody knows who you are. And so the smartest thing you can do right now to get leads and to get attention is to get onto other people's podcasts because they have spent years or decades building an audience, which means you don't need to. But if you're a newbie coach and you don't have a name and you don't have much experience and you're just starting out, why would podcasters want to pick you? That's the big question. More importantly, if they do pick you, how do you conduct yourself so it doesn't feel like you're inexperienced? How do you not look like an idiot? How do you not stumble on your words? How do you not maybe get found out because you are just starting out. And we all gotta start somewhere. And so every person has a starting point. So in this video here, I'm gonna share with you exactly on how to do that. I'm gonna answer all the questions above, plus I'll share with you exactly on how to get booked on podcasts, where to find them in your area, and how to conduct questions like a pro so that you don't look inexperienced. But more importantly, once you are on these podcasts, How to use it to grow your personal brand so you get booked on more podcasts and get more leads in your business. Now this video here is an extract of a live virtual event I did for my students, and this is a paid event where I share with them exactly on how I got booked on over 30 podcasts last year, and that was a result of us growing to $10 million in a single year. So catch this, this is a paid event that you don't need to pay for. Get a pen and paper out, Take plenty of notes because this is fire. Why podcasts? I want to spend a disproportionate amount of time on this because I believe this is going to be the one thing that will propel your business the fastest for so many reasons. But the first reason is this, and this is what we doubled down on in the last 18 months, and that's how we got to $10 million last year. This one focus, this one focus is this: people always, always, always give you their time before they give you their money. Always, always, always, always, always, always, always. We call this consumption. We call this know, like, trust. We call this just sussing you out. They always give you their time before they give you the money. Now, the more time they give you upfront, then the easier it is for you to make an offer to them, the more, the more likely they're going to pay, the more they will pay, and the longer they'll stay. And there's a direct correlation to how much time they spent up front with you to how easy it is for them to convert, how much they pay, how long they stay. But not all time is created equal because there are 3 different measurements of time. And I know many of you have seen me present this model here, but I really want to double down on this because this is the key. This is the key. There is the first measurement of time, which is very intermittent, and it's sporadic. It's here and there, it's up and down. It's them seeing your posts once every couple of days. They may see a story here, they may see a reel here, then over a period of 90 days, they may have seen 60 of your posts and consumed 60 minutes of you over a period of 90 days. But it's been sporadic, it's been intermittent, it's very up and down. And so that time is still valuable, it's still better than no time, but it's not the best unit of time. If they saw you on a podcast, or they saw a 30-minute clip of YouTube of you, and they watched 2 of those things, or they saw you on a masterclass, or whatever the case may be, or they saw you being interviewed, or they saw a P1 interview that I did on you, and that's about 20-30 minutes long, then this is more intentional time. Because they have to sit down and watch you. They have to sit down and consume you. They have to sit down and be with you, albeit virtually, or if it's a replay, but it's very intentional rather than just hoping for the algorithm to something pop up and it's, oh, I see this guy again. So they come and they consume it intentional time. And 60 minutes here, maybe watching 2 or 3 podcasts or 1 podcast or something of yours that they consume, 60 minutes here is way more valuable than 60 minutes here because it's intentional and it's not intermittent and it's compressed in a short amount of time. Who's following this right now? And so if someone had consumed 60 minutes here, they're more likely to buy, they're more likely to spend more, and they're likely to stay even longer. But the highest quality of time is intimate time. And intimate time is when they have one-on-one with you, when they're in a live interaction with you. So this is more replay setting. This is more watching something that they, they can just watch anytime they want. But this is now intimate where it could be a live setting like this, this live setting, even though this is group. But this is intimate because it's live, because I can see you guys, I can interact, I can see Alicia, I can see Ray, I can see Corey, I can see Will, I can see Holly, I can see Wendy, I can see Alex, I see Caitlin, I see Leticia, I see Craig, I see Anne, I see all of you guys here. And so this is very intimate time, it's very, it's very close. And so we're going to interact, and Tony's seeing the chat screen. So this time here, an hour here, beats you watching an hour of me on YouTube, and it certainly beats you watching 60 minutes of me over a period of 9 days in this very intimate time. Who's following this right now? Which means that if we're going to allow our clients or our ideal customers to spend time with us and consume our stuff, we want them to go up this curve here. And the more they spend time up in these areas here, the more your business will blow up. And consumption is proven. How many of you have subscriptions that you don't know what you're subscribed to anymore? Who's, who's in that category? Me too. And it's really frustrating. I'm just hoping and I'm wishing, I'm waiting for the day— I don't even know my credit card— I'm waiting for the day my credit card expires just so the subscription ends because I don't even know which one I'm signed up to. I'm like that now. But for those of you that do know which subscriptions you signed up to, the number one reason why you cancel a subscription is because you just stop using it, because you stop consuming it. If you were on Netflix or Disney or whatever, it's not because Disney got crap or Netflix got crap or YouTube Prime got crap or whatever, something got crap. The number one primary reason why you will ever cancel a subscription, particularly those types, is because you just stopped using it. The secondary reason is something happened, you weren't happy. But the primary reason, 99.9% of the time, is you stop consuming because you stop giving them time, so you stop giving them money. Who's following this right now? And so before they sign up, consumption equals dollars. When they sign up, consumption equals more dollars. That's the key. But that's the first reason why you want to have a version of long form. And being on a podcast is easier. And I'll tell you this now, I've got a YouTube channel I would rather be on a 1-hour podcast than shoot a 1-hour YouTube. My gosh, it's— shooting a 1-hour YouTube is not easy. It's brutal because you got to have every word perfect. You gotta have the hook, you gotta have the story, you gotta have everything else in the beat, you gotta have the ending. It's like, ah, the topic. But in a podcast, it's just that conversational style, and the hour just goes like that, and you leverage someone else's audience. But more importantly, it allows a platform for your clients to consume you in this fashion here, or if it's in person, in this fashion here. And so when you present a tiny challenge, it becomes a no-brainer. They've already pre-decided that they're going to work with you. They're just figuring out the logistics or they're looking for more information, but you've already been in their mind that you're the guy or you're the girl who's following this right now. So that's why it's important. But there's even more of a reason. So you've all heard this, but I want you to write this down. You need to go where attention is. And so a couple of years ago, we were at the fruit shop, and this is our regular local fruit shop, and we know the owner there. He's super nice. He loves our 3 girls., and he's always giving us free fruit. And one day he gave us this whole box of oranges, and we're like, what are we going to do with the oranges? And there's no way we could finish it. And I said, hey girls, do you want to, do you want to make an orange juice stand and sell it on our, like, on our, in front of our house? Like, yeah, they were super excited. And I said, great, so this is going to be your very first business. Cool, so first things first, we're going to make some orange juice, and we got a juicer and everything like that. I said, girls, but we need to let people know, number one, that we're here, and number two, that we're selling oranges. We've got to let people know. It's like, cool, that's how do we do that? We probably need a sign. Oh yeah, okay, because they've seen, you know, on TV or YouTube or whatever it is, like orange juice stand, $1, great girls. So here's your task, go make a sign. Like, yeah, they get all excited and they come back in about 10 minutes and they legit make this sign. Like this sign here, like it is— I know you can't read it. Let me, let me see if you can, if you can see that. Yeah, you can see that, like freshly squeezed orange juice. Like not only did they use non-visible ink on white paper, it was like the tiniest sign you've ever had. And I said, girls, that's not how you get attention. No one is going to see that sign. You are not going to sell any oranges. And I said, let's make a better sign. And so I put this in And I said, yeah, Crocodile Dundee, that's not a knife, this is a sign. And so I helped them make this sign and they were so happy about it. We literally put that in front of our house and we had our very first Origin stand. Like, this is, this is how big it is for them. It was huge. It was massive. And so that sign there, but I share that with you because something really important. The person that gets the most attention wins. But you need to know two things. Number one, where is the attention? And so from a street front store, the attention is on a highway. That's why McDonald's is always on a highway. Because that's where the attention is. And then you need to know how to get it by having a big sign. And right now, attention is all on podcasts. That's how we blew up. Now, like this person or not, But that's how he won. Who raised, right? The move he did to go on America's Top 4 was got— what got him the victory. Almost 100 million views because that's where attention is. People don't consume news anymore. News is podcasts. That's the second reason. But here's the most important reason why this works so well. Because you brand yourself instantly through association. It is the longest art form of branding that will never ever die and the most effective. And when you can understand on how to pull credibility and hack credibility from people who've already had credibility and how to borrow authority from others in this space, you will win big. And why is that a principle? Because proximity is power. Who you associate with, who you spend time with is who you become. And this is what I live and breathe every single day of the week. Tony Robbins says, "Who you spend time with is who you become." Jason Statham says, "My dear friend." Cristiano Ronaldo said, "You are only going to go and be as good as the people you surround yourself with." Oprah Winfrey, "Surround yourself with people who are going to take you higher." Dan Peña, "Show me your friends and I'll show you your future." Grant Cardone, if your net worth isn't changing, change your network. This is not just a saying, it's every big person believing and living this. And so when you get on podcasts, you brand yourself through proximity and association. To recap the importance here, when you get on podcasts, you allow people to consume you because they always give you the time before they give you the money. That's number one. But that's also where the attention is. And if you put yourself where the attention is, that's where you're going to get leads faster than anyone else, faster than you just trying to do one post a day, two posts a day, or try to hack the algorithm. But most importantly, the branding aspect through association with that person— write this down— is permanent, meaning that you get branded for life, because you will always be associated to that person. And what I didn't realize was that this became the asset that I created from being on 30 podcasts last year. And the asset grew because some of the names that I was on also grew. Russell Brunson has grown. So I grew. Myron Golden has grown, so I grew. Ryan Pineda has grown, so I grew. Every single owner at Coachettoria has grown, so I've grown. So every name that I've been on, when they grow, I also grow. If they don't grow, it doesn't matter. I still get the branding for life. Does this make sense? Right? And so this was the most valuable asset that we have created in the last couple of years because of this vehicle called podcast. And I'll give you another demonstration. Association through branding. Nike and Michael Jordan. The bigger Nike gets, the bigger Michael Jordan gets. The bigger Michael Jordan gets, the bigger Nike gets. And it becomes this flywheel. And when I get on podcast, the bigger I get, the bigger Russell gets. The bigger Russell gets, the bigger I get. The bigger I get, the bigger Russell gets. And you create this eternal flywheel and you enter this loophole where the rich get richer. And this brand today is still the number one selling shoe brand. Michael Jordan and Pepsi, even though some— Michael Jackson and Pepsi, even though Michael Jackson is still not around, but you will never forget this because you get branded for life. He will always be known And I don't know if you're old enough to know, but I remember the Michael Jackson ads with Pepsi. It was wild. It's tattooed in your mind forever. Oprah and Weight Watchers. George Foreman and the George Foreman Grill. These are branding for life, and it's an asset you keep for the rest of your life. But before we do that, there are some limiting beliefs that are in the air around I don't know what to say. I'm not qualified. What if I tumble? Who am I to be the expert? What if I choke? I'm not a good storyteller. Hang on a sec, someone's way more qualified than me, give the baton to them. I'm infatuated by this. I'm so nervous. What if I get found out? What I have to share is actually not that good. All those stories. Have I missed any story there? Is there any other story there that I've missed? In the chat screen. What else is there out there? Like, I said, this all makes sense to me, Richmond Dinh. This makes sense. I want to get on podcast, but, but what do we have, TK?

We've got some good ones. We've got many people saying like, you're spot on. I like, I like this one though from Anna who says, I am boring. And then Vincent says, my English is crap. All right. So maybe English is your second language. And Monfort says that I get stage fright. All right, I got you. And for most everybody else, they say that you're nailing it. All right, now I've got Sam Path here who says that I'm monotone. Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one.

Very cool. Very cool. Well, if I had to count, I've probably been on 50 podcasts. It was 30 in one year and then total probably 50, 50 plus. I need to get the full count on that. And um, 50 podcasts-ish. I've never been nervous, I've never choked, I've never been boring, I've never forgot what to say. People ask me the framework, oh yeah, what's the 6 Ps or 7 Ps? And I completely— I choked, I completely choked. And this is the framework that I teach all the time. I've never felt like an imposter, I've always done it flawlessly, and all my podcasts always got the highest views. No, it hasn't been like that. But this is what I've learned. This is what I've learned. And had I fallen victim to those stories, wouldn't be here today. So number 1, recognize it's a story. But I want to share with you something to really bring it home for you. Regardless of what story you have, need to understand that they need you more. They need you more than you need them. I really want you to think about this right now. There are so many podcasters out right now.

Who Grace?

Like you're saying like a new person launching a new podcast every single day right now. There's so many. There are so many. Now, if you can off the top of your head think of the top 10 to 20 big name influencers in our industry right now, I don't think you'll be able to come up with a list of more than 20. Tony Robbins, Russell Brunson, Dean Graziosi, Myron Golden, Brian Tracy, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, um, Cody Sanchez, Alex Hormozi, Ryan Tracy. I don't know who else is there.

Help me out, mate. We got Stephen Bartlett, Mel Robbins, Ed Marlett, Brendan Brashard.

That's only 13, 14.

All right, hang on, we're coming together. We got, uh, Dan Martell, Tom Baelish, uh, we can never pronounce his name correctly, Simon Sinig, Dean Graziosi.

Okay, we're up to maybe 18. It's very hard. So if you're a podcaster, And there's, I wouldn't even say thousands, I would say there's hundreds of thousands now. What's your objective as a podcaster? Your objective is number one, to release one podcast per week. If you want to launch a great podcast, you do one a week. We do two inside PointOne. You do one a week. Now if you do one a week, that's 52 interviews you need to do a year. And what's every person wanting when they launch a podcast? They want the big names. And there's probably only 20 big names if you really think hard about it. So if there's 20 big names and there's 52 weeks of the year, that means 32 weeks of the year if they were to book the 20 big names, if they were, which they won't. But if they did, there's 32 weeks where they still have to fill up the calendar with guests, and that means they're filling it up with B-grade, C-grade, D-grade. And there's hundreds of thousands of podcasters, but there's not enough of you guys. I'm telling you right now, they need you more than you need them. Who's following this right now? Right. The hardest thing for a podcaster to do is have a 52-week calendar. It is so hard. Anytime they get a DM, it's like you as a newbie coach, first sale or first lead to Tiny Channels. Oh, shit. And you got to play it cool. When can you do Tiny Channels? Oh, I've got a cancellation in my schedule right now. I can fit you in right now. Luckily. Oh, how, how are the stars aligned? My gosh. I had a cancellation, but you didn't. You got a full— your whole calendar is open, right? They're like that right now. And so if we understand that, that's how you play this game, and I'll prove it to you. So last year organized a family trip to the Gold Coast, which is kind of like the 10 times, 100 times worse version of Vegas. It's in Australia, right? Went to Warner Brothers Movie World, and, and I like to hit two birds with one stone when I travel. So anytime I travel to a location, I like to see where, like, who's doing a podcast in that kind of city, because then I can just swing by for an hour, do the podcast. I'm there anyway, it's in person, it always looks better in person, and then I'll swing and spend time with my family. Now I don't know any podcasters in the Gold Coast and I was thinking, well, it's probably not many. I don't even know many podcasters in Australia to be fair. The majority of the podcasts I've been on have always been in America, like the majority, like 99%. And so I don't know many Australian podcasters yet alone in the Gold Coast. So I messaged my friend Navdeep who's a former P1 because he interviewed me on his podcast. It was such a weird interview. If you're thinking, I don't know what to say, or I feel like an imposter, you're gonna love this story. Because he messaged me because we have a great relationship, and he said, Rich, I want to interview you. I'm like, sure. It's a virtual interview because he's from the Gold Coast. And I get on the interview, and it's on Zoom, which is fine. And as I enter the Zoom room, he's like half putting on his shirt. I'm like, okay, this is interesting. And he's on his phone. Like, wow, he's interviewing me on his phone. Very strange. Now, here's kind of a pre-frame. He is autistic and he's openly autistic, so he's a little bit strange like that, right? And so, and I said, hi Nav, are you in a good spot for this? And he's like, oh yeah, yeah, I am, but do you want me to come on my computer? Like, I think that might be better for your sake, right? Like, if you record it on your computer, it just looks better because it's your podcast, right? And he's like, yeah, okay, cool, give me a few minutes. And he shuffles around, finally gets on his computer, and he's in his kitchen and it's messy in the background. I'm like, Nav, bro, do you want to do it in your room or something? He's like, nah, this should be fine. Okay, sure. So we did the whole podcast in this really weird setting, and he asked me all these really strange questions. And after the questions I answer and he's got this blank look because he's autistic. And it's like, and I don't know how to read him. I'm just, I'm confused. At the end of it, he's like, thank you so much, man. That was one of the best interviews I did. I'm like, okay, I don't know if it was my best, but that's fine. So after that, I said, hey, Nav, actually, I'm going to the Gold Coast and I'm bringing my family there. We're going to do a family vacation. Do you know any podcasters in the Gold Coast that you could just, you know, refer me to because I'd like to hit two birds with one stone. They're like, sure, I actually do. So he put me in a three-way chat with one guy, only one guy. I had no idea who he was, he didn't know who I was. But yes, we got the introduction, but he's like, I've never seen him online, I've never heard of his name. His name was Nelson Ferreira, and he never heard of me, but then he did some research on me. And put me in a three-way chat and say, hey, Richmond, I just interviewed Richmond on my podcast, would Richmond be a great guest for you as well? And Nelson's like, yep, awesome. Awesome, yep, when are you coming down to the Gold Coast? And we'll organize the logistics. And basically within 2 minutes, he basically said yes to me and he didn't even know who I was because he was desperate for guests. And after we locked that in, I said, hey Nelson, while I'm there, do you know any other podcasters that are in the Gold Coast that might want to have me on? Or be it, know this, I haven't been to the Gold Coast yet and been on his podcast. He's like, yeah, because podcasters, guess what? What a— podcasters know podcasters. People spend time with people like them. So I knew he must know some podcasters there. And he's like, oh, I do. I know this other guy. Introduce me to the other guy. I said, okay, cool. Got an introduction, locked in the dates, locked in the time. We did it back to back. And I asked, message that guy, hey, do you know any other podcasters in the area? Because I'm already on Nelson's, I'm on yours now, I'm going to bring the family there. He's like, oh, actually, I know this other person that might want to have you on. And then I locked in the third one and the fourth one, and I locked in 5 podcasts without even being on any of them and without knowing any of them. This is how easy it is to get on. And that trip, I did 5 podcasts. 5 podcasts that trip without knowing any of them. It was wild. First time I had met every single one of them. They need you more. That's very important to know that. But they'll play it cool. They'll play it cool. Believe me, I've had people try to play it cool with me, and I'm like, I know you're— I know you're going to empty roster. You can't do that to me, right? We got the cards right now. There's too many of you. There's not many of us. Number 1. So does that help everyone? First of all, like, please be reassured of that. Here's the second thing. They only have one job, is to make you look good. Because if they don't make you look good, then they look shit. They want views. So their job is to make you look good. That's why on every one of our P1 podcasts, I know some of you guys that jump on and who's been interviewed by me on P1? Show of hands, you've been interviewed by me, right? And you jump on and like, I'm so nervous. I get it, that's fine. I've been there, trust me. I get very, very nervous many, many times. I understand that. And then I reassure you, and what do I say? My job is just to make you look good. My job is to make you shine. My job is to make you look like a superstar, because if you look good, then I look good. So it's in my best interest to make you look good. So you just chill. This is not about me, this is about you. I'm going to make you shine in the best possible way. And that's exactly, exactly what I say every single week. Who's heard me say that? That's— that is my job. So my job is to make you look good, because if I make you look bad, then I look bad and the whole podcast looks bad. And so they just draw out the best bits of your podcast when you get on a podcast, big name or small name, it doesn't matter, and they create something like this.

So you were weeks away from bankruptcy and spent your last $50K on a Tony Robbins event. At that point, did you genuinely believe that something was going to change, or were you just out of other options?

I was so depressed at my life and how it got to that point. But the only option was may as well just try out this Tony Robbins guru guy.

We often see investment in a way that we're investing into like tangible assets. You chose to develop yourself. There's something in you that shifts. What shifted? Part of it was the proximity is power is a concept that I've lived by and I've seen actually reflected in my life. Reaching up, as I would describe it, to then what it actually started to trigger as opportunity and growth growth and impact in my life. What were some of the things that you've noticed about those individuals that are extremely successful that sets them apart?

Yeah, it's a couple of things. If you can figure out what the system requires of you, then the system will give you what you want. I don't try to change principles, I don't create principles, but I figured out that these are the things that make this thing work.

What did you notice about how they play the game though? Because I think there's some clues there, and success always leaves clues.

If you can learn to lean into the belief of others that they have in you, then you'll get further ahead faster.

What you spoke about on that stage was something called the Tiny Challenge. Describe the Tiny Challenge.

It really comes down to—

the mistake that a lot of founders and creators make is they build a product and try to fit it to the market. You deeply understood the pain, the frustration of your avatar. How would you describe then what it is that you stand for and perhaps what it is that you fight against?

So, um, so when he sent me that, I'm like, wow, that looks phenomenal. He did his job. His job is to make me look good, and that's it. Now, I don't even know if the podcast was that good, but again, their job is to make you look good, because if you don't look good, then they don't look good, their podcast doesn't grow. That's their primary objective, is to make you shine, to make you look like a superstar. And you got to understand from their perspective they're interviewing this as a living. They know people get nervous. They know people stumble on words. They know people choke. They know people forget their words. They know people sometimes can't even tell a story to save their life. They know that, but they also have some skill sets to be able to draw that out of you and only post the best bits. And the bottom line is they will only post the best bits anyway. I have done a 3-hour podcast And online it was only an hour 20. So that means an hour 40 was shit. It was like other people on that, on that channel got 3 hours. I got an hour 20. Is that how bad I was? I hope that was— it wasn't hard picking an hour 20. I'm not even kidding, but you don't even know. There was one part in Russell Brunson's podcast and I completely choked in the middle and I'm like, um, I don't know. And Russell said, don't worry, don't worry, Richmond Dinh Dinh, we're going to cut this part out anyway. Like, oh, thank goodness. And you don't even see that part. It was all cut out. It was like this 6-minute segment where I was like, I don't even know what I'm saying here. And he just cut it out and they cut it out because their job is to make you look good. Does it make sense? Like, that's, that's their whole job. This is From Dane Walker. So you were weeks away— Every single story follows a framework. If you can learn how to tell stories, you become a better communicator, you become more attractive, you become more charismatic, you become more influential. If you're not getting what you want in life, it's because you're not great at telling stories to get what you want in life. Richmond Dinh is the creator of the Tiny Challenge Method and founder of a multi-seven-figure coaching business. He's helped over 1,200 coaches attract clients and build high-performing businesses. Richmond has worked with the likes of Russell Brunson, Myron Golden, and Scott Harris. Action always precedes clarity. That's the only way to get clear on something is to take action on it first. In marketing, the goal is to have someone that doesn't know, like, or trust you do what you want them to do, but for their reasons. The only way to know someone's true values is to look at where their money is going and where their time is going. So how do you identify this in your target audience? I call this the 7 P's, 7 deadly P's that stops anyone from achieving what they want in life. So I don't think I've ever shared this anywhere before. The first one is a pessimist, the procrastinator, the periodic, the pretender, the perfectionist. The pleaser. And what's number 7? The worst one of all is— So that was a 3-hour one that got cut more than in half. And on that one there, I went through the 7 Ps, and after the 3rd P, I forgot it all. I'm like, damn, can I look up my phone here? I don't know, I'm choking right now. I'm like, I don't know what the other 4 are. He's like, yeah, don't worry, we'll cut that part out. Like, I looked it up. Ah, ah, yes, I got it. And then I got to the final one. Oh, and so all that was all cut out. And then you got that and it looks like I just rehearsed it. I just knew it. I just, I didn't know because I was choking. Who's getting this right now? Because their job is to make you look good. And no one's going to know anyway. But here's the best reassuring part. Here's the best reassuring part. This happened literally 2 days ago. So we had a staycation at the Crown in Sydney and took the family out. It's literally only 13 minutes away from where we live, but, you know, kids on holidays, wanted to do a staycation. And they, they loved the hotel. The hotel was awesome. Like, this is the, this is the hotel we were staying in, and they had a big room there. And the girls had a couple of hours and they decided, let's write a play. And they wrote a play. Legit, Kennedy, Riri wrote a play and then Kata helped her two cents in. And they spent a couple hours writing this play as a pirate treasure play, and then they presented it to us, just me and Penny. And I said, can I record it? It's like, yeah, okay, cool. They allowed us to record it, but then I said to Kennedy and Riri, I said, I'm gonna post it on YouTube. It's like, no, don't post it on YouTube. They didn't want anyone to see it. And you know, this is me being me. If you know me, you know me. I said to Riri particularly, because she was the one that's most vocal about, no, don't, don't, I don't want you to post it on YouTube. I was like, Riri, let's be real. You guys are 3 kids who wrote a play without any experience. You can't act. You're not performers. It's not going to be that good, which means no one's going to watch it and no one's going to see it anyway. He's like, what do you mean? Think about it. Do you think about— tell me about all the bad stuff you watch on YouTube. You don't. Anything that you watch, you're not interested in, how fast do you scroll? Straight away. Ah, so if it's not good, no one sees it. Yeah, you're right. If it's not good, no one sees it. And if a lot of people see it, that means it was good. And so the algorithm tells you on what the audience should see anyway. Does that make sense? So here's the play. They're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna show you the first 20 seconds anyway. Is it that over there by the rock? No! Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. So that's the 3 girls doing the play. I recorded the whole thing, but the bottom line is, who's gonna watch that on YouTube? You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, it's cute and stuff, but there is like— no one's gonna watch it on YouTube because the algorithm's not gonna show it. Like, I don't— the only people that watch it is like me and Penny and her parents. Like her grandparents, like that's it. But no one's like, no, how will this ever get any reach? Because the algorithm protects you. So who's up for getting on podcast now? Who's up for doing that, right? The good news is this, I'm going to give you a framework because after starting my own podcast, and believe me, it was like as if I was starting my coaching business again. And the first time, any of you, the first Facebook Live you did or the first Facebook video you did, you hated yourself and you watched that 100 times. Anyone done that before? It's like, you know, or some of you, you never watched it again. Like, I can't watch it again. For me, I like to watch it again and hate myself. I've watched so many of my podcasts over and over again, particularly the first few, and started hating myself because it was so bad. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm judging all these things about myself. But then I got out of that pattern and I started analyzing which ones did well, which ones didn't do well, which ones I felt like I crushed. But then I started analyzing literally over 100 other podcasters on which ones make their ones go well, even analyze Myron's one and the biggest names in the world, Joe Rogan's the most successful podcast there, and then Doak. And I saw patterns after being on my own, after being on what did better than mine on the same channel, or why did I do better than someone else's, or looking at different channels. I saw patterns and I realized it's this, it's never And this is what I thought it was. I thought it's the podcaster. When they ask great questions, that makes a great podcast. Bum bum. It always came down to how the person being interviewed answered the questions. Always. Because you have a great question but a bad answer, bad podcast. You have a bad question, great answer, great podcast. Great answers always dictate the quality of a podcast. Some podcasters ask great questions, some people can answer it well, some people cannot. Some podcasters ask terrible questions, some people can know how to do that and answer it well and becomes a great podcast. It never has anything to do with the questions being asked or how the podcaster runs it. It always has to do with how you answer it. Always. And the good news is I've created a framework for you that I now use when I'm being interviewed, which allows me to get more than the average views. Maybe not the top, but it just gives me a framework to work for so that I don't become the worst. My whole objective is I don't want to be that podcast that you had to cut out half of it because it was that bad. I want to be the one where, yeah, maybe I only trimmed out about 10% and everything else is polished and it's like, yes, I crushed that one. That's what I want to be. And so this framework here is this. Before, before, actually before I share with you the framework, I want to, I want you to guess something. I want to play a quick game. Guess which podcast I flopped on in this picture. Guess. If you have to guess, which one? Guess which one flopped.

Jenny says bottom, bottom left. All right, we've got Omar says none, you didn't flop on any. Okay, geez, people are rough, mate. They've named just about everybody on the picture. We've got Myron, we've got Ryan, we've got Andy.

Oh gosh, yeah, yeah. Is it fair to say you don't know? Is that fair to say? But what has the picture done? Has the picture done its job? I'll make it easy for you. Guess which one I flopped on in this one. So Richmond, you've helped thousands of people. Richmond Dinh, over $20 million online. I wanted to share a good friend of mine His name's Richmond.

Our guest today is Richmond Dinh.

We've got none other than Richmond Dinh. Today I have Richmond Dinh. Richmond Dinh, thank you for being on The Department. I've got Richmond Dinh.

What's up? Today we're joined by Richmond Dinh.

We are here with Richmond Dinh. All the way from Australia. Let's go down under. We got Richmond here today. One of my friends and one of the greats. Richmond Dinh is in the building today.

The legend.

The one and only Mr. Richmond Dinh. Which one? You don't know? So at the end, it doesn't even matter. The podcast that never mattered. Isn't it funny? So— I do want yours to matter though, because it does hurt. It's, you know, it does smack the ego a little bit. It's like, man, how come I couldn't be the top viewed one for your channel? You know, so, so you do want to perform well. It's just, I don't know, it's not to feel the need that I'm not good enough. It's just I like, I like, I like to be proud of my work. Who's following this? Like, the difference between me just doing it for the sake of doing it to prove something, but there is pride in the work that you do. You want to present something good and make someone proud. So created a framework of studying my own personal podcasts, some of them watching them 10 times over. And I binge on podcasts as my primary vehicle of learning these days. And not only do I binge on them for content, but I binge on to see what makes it work. So I look at it from two lens, like in Annabelle. And there's four things I want to introduce you to the DEMO framework. This is how you answer questions, any question on a podcast, whatever question you have. And don't worry, we're going to do examples. We're going to do role play. We're going to get you guys to get in a break room and do this.. It is wild. Once you see this, you cannot unsee it. And I don't believe anyone else out there is teaching this. I haven't found anything like this, so I have to create something like this. I was searching, how do I conduct myself on podcast? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Nothing. There's nothing out there. But I realized a pattern of the best answers came down to when they use one of these four, when they use two or three or four, even better. But you only need to use one to make the answer powerful. And the bad answers is when you use none of them and you just give one-word answers. The first one is this: data. When you provide some form of data to the answer. So let me give you some examples. So Richmond Dinh, why is it that so many coaches are afraid of changing niches? Well, first of all, let me give you some stats. The average coach changes niches 3 times anyway. I changed 3 times. I know some coaches have changed 4 or 5 times. Some people change 10 times. And so first of all, your niche is not attached to you. You're allowed to change it, and most coaches change it anyway. I've never met a coach ever that have never changed a niche from day one. Here's the opposite answer without data. Richmond Dinh Dinh, so why are coaches, you know, so afraid of picking their niche? You know what, they're just really scared of making a decision. That's what it comes down to. See the difference? If you're watching a 30-minute podcast or a 1-hour podcast or 20-minute podcast, It makes all the difference because I mentioned some data. And guess what? 86% of stats are made up on the spot anyway. That was a joke. Don't make up stats. Don't make up stats. But you can use data. The second thing you can use is examples. So back to the niching question, Richmond Dinh. Yep, so many coaches, they're so afraid to pick the niche, but the average coach changes 3 times anyway. I've seen coaches change 4 or 5 times, and some people change 10 times. It's not a tattoo. I'll give you an example for myself anyway, but even our students, right? The— I, I see People start out with life coaching which is what I did and I crushed it in my business and then other coaches started coming to me asking how did I do it and then that's how I transitioned to business coaching. But here's another example, at the end of the day, most coaches they don't even know who they want to coach until they coach that person anyway and I can't tell you how many times where someone says, oh my gosh, I want to coach single moms only to realize that they want to coach women who have been a victim of abuse. And so now I'm just riffing through some examples rather than just saying people are just scared of making a decision. So I could use data, I could use examples, I could use both. The third one is using metaphors to answer a question. For example, a niche is not a tattoo. You're allowed to change it, but people think it's a tattoo. People get more divorced these days than they change niches. They think once they decide their niche, they're bound to it to the word of God. But it's not a tattoo, so I'm using a metaphor. And also, you only need to be one chapter ahead of the person you're coaching. Why is that important? Because when we have a bookmark— I don't have my bookmark here, but we have a bookmark— you bookmark your life. People don't know how to bookmark their life. They know how to bookmark a book because you don't need to reread the same chapter. But why is that important? Because How many of you know of someone who set the same New Year's resolution year after year? Me, I have. How many of you know of someone who set the same goal, tried to lose the same 10 pounds for the last 10 years? And I'm sorry if you're a mom and your kid's 20 years old, it's not baby weight anymore after 20 years.

Just saying.

Oh man, I'm going to get so much hate now. Richmond Dinh, you can't say that. You can't say that. Thank you, Mike. Mike's got my back. How many of you know someone that's stuck in a career that they hate for the last 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years? I was. How many know someone stuck in a relationship that they just want to get out or they're unfulfilled for the last 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years? Yes. How many know someone that's been trying to grow their coaching business and still stuck on the zero client wheel for the last 3, 6 months, 2 years, 3 years. A lot of people stuck in the business chapter so people don't know how to bookmark their life. Now if you're one chapter ahead and you know how to get someone out that's been stuck in a chapter for the last 5, 6, 7, 10 years, would be fair to say that you're more than qualified to get them out but more important they would die for you to help them get out by you reaching in and say I can help you out because I'm one chapter ahead and you don't have to live this chapter again for the next 10 years. Komm, you only need to be one chapter ahead. How many of you have been— and this is a true question for everyone— how many of you have been in a season where you've relived the same chapter again and again, whether it's business, where it's relationships, where it's health, whatever it is? Yeah, we've all been there. How many of you have been in a season in your life where you weren't going through the same chapter, but you've gone backwards? Who's ever gone backwards before? 100%. And so even living in the same chapter is 10 years and go backwards, because going backwards was not fun. It was terrible. You have thoughts about whether life is worth it or not when you're going backwards. It's not a good place to be in. And then you have someone there who says, I'm one chapter ahead. And if you charge $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 There'll be people out there who'll be willing to pay because they just don't want to be in the same chapter again or be going backwards again because you only need to be one chapter ahead. Your niche is not a tattoo. So now that answer becomes more full, it becomes more vibrant, and becomes a great answer because I use either some data some examples or a metaphor, but here's the final one, and you only need to use one of these to make the answer powerful. If you use multiple, even better, is your own story. If you have an own story, great. Only use one of them. For example, when I started coaching, Scott Harris was my very first mentor. I paid $25,000 to be in his inner circle. It was the first program I've ever bought. Get that. I had never joined a coaching program before, and the first one I did was $25,000. I wasn't one of those guys that had to start in the $1,000 program and then the $5,000, and then I just went straight to the top. I don't know why. Maybe I was crazy, but that's how I started. And I really believe that, like, this is how I think, right? I don't know about you guys, but when we buy certain furniture, I like to think with the end in mind that I want to keep this for the next 50 to 100 years. So we have this marble table that I bought. It was when I moved out of home and I could save up enough money for us to first get a rental and then buy my first home. I, I, we had to buy furniture and I knew that like if I'm going to buy a nice dining table, I want to buy something that lasts a long time because I don't want to buy something from IKEA or something that I have to replace every 5 years and every time I move it gets crap and stuff like that. I want to buy something that lasts a long time. And so I bought this marble table, and it was a lot of money at the time. This was about close to 20 years ago, right? It was, it was a lot of money at the time. It was like about $5,000, which is a lot of money. Saved up for it, paid for it in full, and I still have that marble table today, and it is, it's so good. It's, it's made of travertine. It is phenomenal, and it's timeless, and it lasts. It's so good. So I've always had the belief that if I spend more now, it's going to allow me to get the ROI in the long term. And so that's probably the reason why I jumped in straight away into a $25K program as my first coaching program. So Scott Harris, this was me and I was transitioning out of optometry. He said, Richmond, you gotta pick your niche. And I said, yeah, I know, I know, I'm gonna be a life coach. He's like, life coach for who? For everyone. Nah, Richmond, you can't do that. You cannot be a life coach for everyone. What do you mean? I want to be a life coach for everyone. You can't serve everyone, Richmond. You'll be the master of none. You gotta pick someone that you wanna be a life coach for. And he really pushed me on it. And he pushed me for a long time. It was a 1-year mastermind. He pushed me for the first couple of months, Richmond Dinh, when are you niching down? And I had the same limiting beliefs that it was a tattoo, that I couldn't change it. What if I pick wrong? If I niche down into a smaller market, I'm gonna exclude everybody. All those stories about niching. And he kept on pushing me to the point where I got a little bit agitated, but it worked because one night in my sleep I woke up. I don't know about you guys, but some of you guys probably have ideas in the middle of the night or in the shower or something like that, or when you're going for a run. Anyone like that? Like shower, run, sleep? That was me. And so I had it in my sleep. I woke up and it came to me. You see, after leaving optometry, a 10-year career in optometry, 20,000 eye tests, I was an exceptional optometrist. I knew that because I had a very high client retention rate. And re-sign rate, clients or patients would always come back and it was higher than industry average. So that's how I measured my success. And so I felt like it was such a waste because all of my peers were also saying, bro, you're one of the best optometrists we know and I can't believe you're leaving because there's so many bad optometrists out there and I'm just not happy with it. And it was such a weight of grief that I felt leaving optometry. It was like I was leaving behind what I knew But then it hit me, 20,000 eye tests, the majority of the eye tests I did were on people who were— now I don't want to offend anyone here— who I deemed as elderly. They were the average patient age I saw was over 60. It ranged from 55 to 70, but average was over 60. And I called them the elderly. Come on, I was 23, 24, 25, so anyone that's over 40 was elderly to me. So they were elderly to me, and 15,000 eye tests out of the 20,000 were on the elderly. So I built an affinity with them, I built great rapport with them, I knew what they wanted, and some of them would come in and they would do the eye test and they don't really need another check, they just had a check 3 months ago because they want to talk because they're lonely. And so I would hear their life stories and I'm okay with that, and I felt like I had this great rapport with elderly. And I went to Scott Harris the next day, I said, Scott, I know my niche now. Thank you for pushing me. I am going to be a life coach for the elderly. Wow! Elderly, Richmond Dinh Dinh? How did you come to that conclusion? Well, you see, Scott, I have been an optom and I have been coaching, I have been serving the elderly and I felt like such a waste. But now I know why I am meant to serve them because I served them for 10 years and it is not a waste. And I even went to the lengths because I had not transitioned full-time yet to interview all my elderly patients. That week I interviewed 50. 50! I got on the phone or when they came in and asked them at the end of the eye test, can I just ask you a few questions? What are your regrets? What do you want in life? What advice do you have? Like all that kind of stuff, the pain points. I knew everything about them and I was going to go out there and coach the elderly. And back then Scott said, the first 10 sessions, the first 10 patients you do or clients you do, do them pro bono, coach them for free for 6 to 12 weeks. I'm like, great, I'm going to get 10 pro bono elderly clients and coach them for free. And Scott said, whoa, Richmond, I don't think you should do that. Like, why? I found my niche, you told me to niche down. Well, maybe you should take on 2, 3, 4 max and take on some like you, you know what I'm saying? Like, no, I don't know what you're saying. You told me to niche down, I found my niche, I want to take on all 10 elderly. Richmond Dinh, I highly suggest you take on a couple of elderly and the others mix it around. Some in your profession, some your age, gender, race, all that kind of stuff. And I was pissed for him to say that to me because here he is pushing me to niche down. I finally found my niche. It was my calling. It felt right to me. It came to me and every part of it felt aligned. And he's telling me to hold my horses and hold back and only coach 2 or 3 or 4. And being the good student I am, I was a great student. I always listened to my parents. I never raised my hand in the classroom. I never disobeyed authority. I listened to him reluctantly because I'm thinking, well, why would he want to steer me the wrong way? What's in it for him? Nothing. And so being the good student I did, I listened, but I wasn't happy. And I gradually took on 2 pro bono clients that were 6— one was 64, one was 67, and 80 of the others were all like me. And you know, after coaching for 6 weeks, you know what I learned? I realized that I hated coaching the elderly. This is for life coaching. Now, for business coaching, it's very different, but for life coaching, wow, it was not what I thought it would be. In fact, I love coaching everyone else except for the elderly. And I learned an important lesson there. Here I am thinking I had the perfect niche, it came to me, it was so aligned. I need to only coach them to feel like that it was not the right thing for me at all, because action precedes clarity all the time. You can sit there and you can meditate and it can come to you and it feels right, but until you take action on it, you'll never know if the niche is right for you. Until you take action on anything you want in your life, you'll never know if it's the right step for you because you must take action first. Clarity always follows action. Action precedes clarity. And you may sit there and you may not know your niche and you may be confused or doesn't feel aligned, but that's irrelevant because until you take action on it first, that's where clarity will come. So Richmond Dinh, how do you help coaches with their niche? I can use data, examples, metaphors, own story, and that becomes a 10 to 15 minute answer on one question on a podcast. And people are like, wow, this guy knows what he's talking about. Who's following this right now?

Right?

Here's the good news. All of you can do this. And you only need one. And after studying the best podcasts, most of them only do one or two and they expand on it. And some people do all four, and I don't think they even know they're doing it. This is the DEMO framework to answer any question. Any question. Let me give you some more examples to really take it home. And I'm gonna help you come up with your own to the questions that you might be asked on a podcast, on an interview, on a chat, on whatever case may be. Now you can never unsee this. And you know why when you watch a podcast, why it was bad? Because they didn't follow a demo framework. And you know why when you watch some, it was so good? Because it's, oh, they're riffing out into some data here. Oh, sure, they're riffing out into a metaphor. That's a great metaphor. Oh my gosh, they're riffing out into their own story. With a metaphor. Oh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, they got data and an example. This is a killer answer. You cannot unsee this, which means that when you get on podcasts, yours is going to pop. But even if it doesn't, it's the podcast that doesn't matter anyway. Does that make sense? It's kind of like why we're even doing today's event. Why? What's the point? There is no point. Just get on podcast. It never matters anyway. End of story. All of you, you're dismissed. You got an early mark. Let's go. Everyone spend time with their family. No, we want another framework. And you know what the good news is? Because I'm a sucker for spoiling you guys, I created a master prompt for you too. Yeah, would that be cool? Yeah, it's sick. It's freaking sick. I almost got no sleep last night because I asked myself, where else can I use this master prompt? And so today we're going to use it in as many places as possible. The first one is a podcast, but the end of today, I'm going to show you an even better place to use it. It is wild. It'll blow your mind because the reality is If you're lucky, you may get on one podcast a fortnight because I got on 30 in one year and that was a big tour, right? That's about one every second week. I don't expect you guys to get on 30 in the next 12 months, but if you get on 12, that's one a month. What are you going to do with the other 29 days? You're going to use a demo framework on the other 29 days. Cool? Would that be cool? Because that's, that's, that's where the biggest leverage point is. Cool. All right, I'm going to give you some more examples. To really take it home. To really take it home. And now you cannot unsee this. So most of my interviews were on Tiny Challenges. And they'll ask me questions about Tiny Challenges. It was like, wow, Richmond Dinh Dinh, like, how did you come up with the model? Let me tell you a story, you know. And I'll riff on the examples or maybe some data. Like, I've done 62 group challenges and each of them took me over 40 hours to do. And I realized it was hard for me It must be so hard for the average coach beginner to do it. And so I figured out there had to be a better way to run the challenge. And I thought, if I had to start all over, I'd just do things one-on-one. So I created this idea of doing a one-on-one challenge, and that's how I was born. And since then, our students have been crushing it. The average person that does 10 Tiny Challenges closes 3 in the first 10. It is wild. It's impossible to get 10 nos in a row. So now I'm using data, right? And some examples and stories. So if you can see that, you can see me just talking in that state now. But then people ask me questions on podcasts like, so, but don't you like, what do you do? What did you? And Russell asked me this question too, but I didn't riff out in the demo framework because I was choking. I didn't even know, I didn't even have this framework. He asked me, so what do you do about time wasters? I don't think you use the word time wasters, but how do you like pre-qualify people? Like, do you charge them or? What do you do? And I gave a very straight answer, and it was a 2-second answer, and that was kind of the end of it. It's like, oh yeah, you could charge them, and you could do like a refundable deposit, and yeah, you could, you could do that. And sometimes in the chat, we just get them to, we just get them to, um, you know, ask a few questions, you know, how committed are you out of 10, and that's kind of how we do it. Oh cool, shit answer, shit answer. No data, no example, no metaphor, no story. You guys getting this? On future podcasts, when I got asked the same question, Richmond Dinh, what happens with time wasters? Good question. Most common question I get asked. It was wild because our average conversion of the first 10 is 3 out of 10. And I couldn't figure out why because they were beginner coaches who never ever coached before and they're closing 3 out of 10. And we're not teaching them crazy sales strategies or anything like that.. And I found out a powerful reason. Think about, you really think they have a tiny challenge for a second. Think about how it works, right? Show me your phone. I, I do this exercise wherever, like everyone pull out their phone. Everyone just do this. Pull out your phone for a second. Look on your phone. Look on your phone. How many apps do you have on your phone? I only have a page, 24, and then another 24, and that's it. Type in the chat screen, how many pages of apps do you have on your phone?

All right, all right, we've got 4, 3, 3, 2.5, 2, 3, Will says 12. We've got here 7, 2.5, 4, 3, Brian's got 11, Adeline's got 12.2. Okay, I'm gonna round that down to 12. 7 from Lindy, there we go.

Very cool. Now, the purpose of every app on your phone is only to do one thing. It's to get your attention.

Why?

Because attention is the new currency. And the reason why every app on your phone wants your attention, because it wants your data. The longer you stay on platform, the more data it gets. The more data it gets, the more money it makes, because it can sell that data to pump ads back to you or sell it to other data companies. And so on my phone right now, Facebook wants my data, Instagram wants my data, WhatsApp wants my data, Click wants my data, YouTube wants my data, Claude, Uber, Voxer, ChatGPT, Spotify. Audible, every single app on my phone wants me to use it as much as possible because it wants my data, because data is the new oil. So why am I sharing this story with you? Because we live in a world right now where 10 years ago if I said to you, what is— I've got shiny object syndrome, everyone will be confused. No one understands what that means. But now people know what it means because it's a thing, because it's so hard to get someone's attention now. And the biggest enemy to your success is distraction. Because everything's fighting for your attention, because attention is currency and data is oil. And so we are more distracted now than ever before, and that's just your phone. Outside your phone is Netflix, YouTube, friends, spouse, da da da, and it's overwhelming. People can't focus now. And so I realized that in a tiny challenge, you don't get time wasters because no one subscribes to working with you 5 calls, 5 days to give up 30 to 45 minutes of their time in a world where they are struggling to give their attention everywhere else, they're highly distracted, but they give up their time to you that week, it tells us that they are highly attentive, highly committed. They have a problem they want solved now, not next week, not next month, not next year. And so the vehicle itself repels time wasters and it attracts the most qualified people. I answered that on the podcast. It's like, wow. Rather than saying, which I said on Russell's, "Oh yeah, you can charge a refund on deposit and/or just ask 3 commitment questions out of 10, how committed are you?" That's how you, that's how you weed out time wasters. Who's following? Right? It's never the question, it's how you answer the question. And this is the framework to answer it. By just picking one of these, your answer will become fuller, richer, deeper, better. Is this valuable so far?

Yeah?

Go ahead, type in chat screen, what are you getting away from this? What's going through your mind? Your cogs are spinning, you're like, I just wanna get into this, I wanna do it right now.

Anna says, yes, valuable. All right, we've got here from Ryan, one of our guests in the house, saying simple yet effective frameworks are so valuable. Yeah, absolutely, great framework. "Clarity demo with a big thumbs up." This is from Ning. We've got here, "Let's go, love it, inspired, action precedes clarity, valuable, extreme answer." And I'm gonna bow tie it with Lewis who says here, "Great framework." Very cool.

I'll give you one more example to really take this home. And this time I'm not gonna tell you which one I am doing. You just type in the chat screen, and you tell me which one I'm doing. Is that cool? So this is a game. I'm going to do one more. I get asked this frequently on a podcast when they interview me about tiny challenges, and I riff out into one of these. Cool. So as soon as you know what I'm doing, you can just type in the chat screen. Cool. So I get asked, um, so what are some other differences around a tiny challenge compared to a group challenge? That's a very common question I get asked on a podcast. So I'm glad you asked, Tim, John, Russell, da da da. It's the accountability. Because it's one-on-one and there's homework assigned after every call, you hold them accountable. And this is so powerful because I want you to imagine like going to the gym. And I go to the gym 3 times a week, and I've been doing that consistently for the last 27 years. Gym is something I never miss. I always look for a hotel that has a 24-hour gym when I pick my hotels when I travel. That's how important it is to me. But yet, out of one of those training sessions, I still have a personal trainer because when I do leg day and my personal trainer's there, instead of doing 10 squats, I'll do 15 because everybody always does more with accountability. But not only are those 15 more, each of those 15, they burn and I do them better because there's no cheating. So I do more and better. So even an A-type personality like me will always do more and better with accountability. And you imagine that over 5 days, the progress they experience is massive, coupled with the fact that they're already highly committed to you. That's why the accountability works, because at the end of it they get progress. They have so far, so much progress and so much momentum, they don't want it to stop, and the offer becomes seamless. So that's the big difference, is the accountability. Whereas in a group challenge, you don't get that. In a webinar, you don't get that. In a discovery call, you don't get that. Or could we said, you know what, there's 5 days of accountability, which is like, you know, we all know accountability works, and that's one of the biggest differences. Which one did I use?

It's a loaded question. Which one do I use? We've got it going through the chat screen right now. People are writing demo.

All of it, all of it, all of them.

I'm gonna finish it up with me who says, bruh, all of them, come on.

Well, kind of all of them. The one I used predominantly was a metaphor. The gym, accountability, do more squats. So that's, that's a direct metaphor of why accountability works. Going to the gym, personal trainer, accountability, you do more, you do better. People can visualize in their mind doing squats. When you've got a personal trainer there, you're going to use 15. When you've got a personal trainer that you're going to do them better So now, ah, now in the Tiny Challenge, that's a big difference. Cool? Everyone see that now? Now you can't unsee it. Yes, I maybe use a bit of everything, but predominantly I use the metaphor. And that one, it was just mainly just one thing. But the fact that I just use one thing rather than nothing makes the answer better. And some people don't give short answers. What's worse than giving a short answer? Waffling. Without a framework. And so one of the fears on a podcast is what if I waffle? What if I don't know what to say? But if you have a framework to follow, you can never waffle. In your mind, what data can I say? What example? What metaphor? What story? Can I just pick one of them? I got a good one here, got a metaphor here, got a story here, got a story here.

Cool. We've got a question here in the chat from Miss Jo Jackson says, how do we get onto podcasts?

Great question. Great question. It is— so it is easier than you think. So I've done this in two ways. First way is I got an introduction. So, and I totally get, oh my gosh, I don't have an introduction. That's okay, you don't need it. But that's the first way. For example, when Navdeep interviewed me on his podcast, which was like the weirdest podcast on the planet, and I guarantee you have never seen it. There's no— if he posted, no one saw it. But I don't think he posted it, and certainly I'm not posting that one. It was so weird. But, uh, but that being said, that being said, I asked Nav, Nav, do you know any other podcasters? Because podcasters always know podcasters. And so he introduced me, put me in a 3-way chat, not even a 3-way WhatsApp chat or anything like it, was a 3-way, um, 3-way, like a 3-way was an Instagram chat or whatever you call that. And, and so I asked for a direct referral from a podcast that I had been on. I asked for a direct referral. And then when they gave me the referral, knowing that they're desperate for people to jump on— believe me, they are desperate, especially if they are not a big name podcast like Doac or Joe Rogan or one of those big ones. But if they're like a B or definitely a C grade, where there's hundreds if not thousands of C grades in your niche, you just don't know where they are. Right? But they're out there. I didn't know there's at least 20 podcasters in Gold Coast, and I found 5 in a matter of 24 hours, and they all said yes. And I'm like, whoa, that was a bit too easy. And the reason why I didn't take on all 20, because I couldn't take on all 20. I'm there for a family holiday, and I literally smashed out podcast after podcast after podcast. I was just literally— the way I orchestrated my whole itinerary, it was tight. Like there was one podcast I was running 15 minutes late, so I was like, I'm so sorry, because it was like, it was a tight ship that I ran. And so you'll get way more yeses than you get nos. And if you get a no, it doesn't really matter. They don't know you anyway, but you'll be very surprised. So I got a direct kind of three-way chat thing, and then when I locked it in with that person, I locked it in, and then they said, okay, cool, we're locked in the time date. I'm coming down Gold Coast this time.

Cool.

And by the way, while I'm there, I like to shoot 2 birds with 1 stone. Do you know anyone else in the area that does podcasting that would want to have me on as well? And like, I do, because they help out each other. They like— they know how hard it is to be a podcaster, and so they like to share their guests. That's what they do, podcasters. That's what they do. And so then he referred me to another guy, and then that person did the same. Do you know anyone? I think he gave me 2 contacts, and then suddenly I got 5. And so just from asking, just from asking, and I hadn't even done the podcast yet. So that's the first one from asking. So if you can get someone that says, hey, I want to refer this one to be on your podcast, and you may have not been on the podcast but you just know someone and you may not know them that well, just get a referral and just ask, just ask. Now if you don't have that contact point, if you don't have the referral, again, you just ask. So this is what I've done on, I would say, So out of 50 podcasts I've been on, about half of them were from literally referral after referral after referral. Like, do you know anyone else? Do you know anyone else? Do you know anyone else? Do you know anyone else? Do you know anyone else? Oh yeah, yeah, this one would probably be good on your show. Like, you, you know, they referred me. Now the other 25, about a dozen asked me. So that was awesome. Hey, Richmond Dinh, I saw you on this, I heard about you doing this, so they asked me. And then a dozen I outreached. I legit just outreached. I would message people who I didn't know. I send them a cold DM, and the cold DM sounds something like this. Hey, I noticed you have a podcast on ABC, really cool. Say something genuine and specific and If you're looking for more guests, I think I've got this awesome topic that will be valuable for your audience. Then the next part is this: Is there a process on how I can be a guest on your podcast? So I'm not asking, I'm not entitled, I'm saying, is there a process? And if they say yes, great, what's the process? And sometimes the process is fill out this questionnaire, and you fill out a questionnaire, tell me about your details. Sometimes the process is paying. Yep, I've paid for some, not many, but I have. Sometimes the process is an exorbitant fee. I'm like, I'm not paying for that, no thanks. But sometimes like, is that it? Okay, sure. Sometimes the process is sure, but in return I want to be able to Do something for your audience and swap favors. So there's some podcasters that have a process. You can figure out what the process is. You ask them, what's the process of getting on your podcast? And they'll tell you. And that's it. I said, great. Fill out the process. It's a fake application. I'm busy. I've got 6 months booked out in advance. Ah, you've got to follow a process. No, you're not. You're dead quiet. Secret, don't tell them that. They're like a beginner coach with no discovery calls. They're just jumping the gun and they're telling their husband and wife, I got another application for a podcast today. Yes, yes, gotta play cool, gotta play cool. So you play it cool too, and then that's it. That's how you get on. But you, you only need one. Because once you get on one, you ask referrals out. So the 5 that I got on in the Gold Coast, every time I finish a podcast, I say, hey, do you know anyone that would value our conversation just now? The ones I got in the US, when I finish it, you know anyone that value our conversation right now? And that's how I got on 4 podcasts in Las Vegas. I had no idea that there were 4 podcasts in Las Vegas. I know they're all around America, but I didn't know a lot of them were in Las Vegas. I just knew Ome Okachitori. I had no idea, and I was introduced to him from Myron. But then after this, Oma, do you know anyone else around here? Oh yeah, this person, this person, this person.

Okay, sure.

Then I just go around, right? But I'm just literally asking the people on. So once you get on that first one, at the end of the podcast, you ask them, hey, do you know anyone else that would value this conversation? And they'll just refer like crazy because they're all trying to help each other out because they're all drawing leads. Does that make sense? Is that clear? It's just me just asking, just asking, just asking, just asking, just asking. Now, when you're cold DMing someone, especially in your P1, this is what I would do. Because when I cold DM, this is what I did, and the cold DMs got easier and easier and easier. But the first cold DM was, hey, notice you got this podcast, looks awesome, I love this, I love this topic, I love— something sincere about them. Um, just wondering what's the process of me being on your podcast? I think I have this cool topic that would really be beneficial to your audience. I've been featured on Russell Brunson. That's it. Oh, okay. Yep, I want to know about this guy. So in P1, you will say, I've been featured on Richmond Dinh's podcast, the creator of Tiny Challenge. And that's your gateway. That is your gateway. Makes sense? Cool. So that's how you get— any follow-up questions about anything else around that, TK?

Maybe any follow-up question, it's getting Joe Jackson question, is, well, how do you then also like respectfully decline some people inviting you onto the podcast without, you know, damaging your brand or damaging the relationship?

Well, I Now, unless it's really against your brand, unless it's really against your brand, right? Like, I don't know, I probably wouldn't go on a podcast if they're teaching Satanism or something like that. That would be strange, right? But let's just say that was— I've never had anything weird like that. I have basically said yes to almost every podcast because there was no clear contraindication as to why I shouldn't be on there. Like, it wasn't like they were philosophizing or a scam or anything like that. And here's the reason why. When I was in that zone of just jumping on podcast after podcast, I knew the more I do of this, the better I get. The more reps I tell of the Demo Framework, the better I get. The more I get to riff my stories and examples and metaphors and data the better I get, and the better I get, the more I get booked. And so for me, it was like, okay, this person's clearly a no-name, this person doesn't have a brand. And me being— and let's be clear, I don't have a million followers, so I'm not saying like I'm the big biggest brand in the world or anything like that. But me, I'm branding them by being on their podcast. I know that for sure, because once I know that once I'm on their podcast. They can say, I've interviewed guests like Richmond Dinh, because I've seen people approach me to say, hey, I want you to be on my podcast. I've interviewed— and they name drop. I'm like, wow, okay, cool, I'm in, because they name drop and it worked. And so they get to add me to their reputation. I've name dropped. So I've always said yes because I know the more I'm on, the more questions I get asked, the more I get refined at answering, the better I get at demonstrating the demo framework. And the better I am, the better I accumulate, the better how I answer the questions, the more I'll get seen, the more I'll get taken up by other people who say, "Oh, you're amazing. I want you to come back," or "I saw you on that channel. You crushed it. I want you on my show." All those kind of good things. And so for me, I wanted those reps. I value those reps even though some of those podcasts probably got 1 view.

You know?

But who cares? Who saw it? No one. It doesn't matter. But I got better. Makes sense? So I actually never said no. There was only one person I do remember saying no to. And it was this guy. And I'm so blunt, right? You're going to laugh at this. I said to him, bro, you look— no offense. But from the outside you look like a scammer from India. And I know, Jack, I said that, and I know you're not because I can tell what you're doing, but because where you're shooting your podcast and how you're presenting online, you look like one of those telemarketer scammers, right? And so I would only go on your podcast, but I know he wasn't because he interviewed some people that I kind of know in a distance. So this guy was like semi-legit, right? But he just didn't look legit at all. Like from a— he sent me a cold DM and you know when you get a cold DM from someone, you get the vibe that they're a scammer. You know, some people like you got that instant vibe they're a scammer and like I got from his profile picture, everything. He's like, you look like a scammer, bro. But when I looked deeper into him, he wasn't a scammer, but I said, you look like a scammer. And so I will come on your podcast on the one condition that you tidy up your look and the background that you're shooting from because that curtain looks cheap, bro, and I don't want to go on your podcast because it just looks all scammy to me. And he came back 6 months later and polished up his studio. He said, Richmond Dinh, I took your advice. And I said, bro, you look legit now. I'm on. He took the feedback. Really good guy, really good guy. So I don't know where that podcast is, somewhere in the universe, but at least, at least I'm not looking like I'm being interviewed by some sort of scammer. Now, albeit Navs was worse. But he's autistic, so it's okay. I'm not backing out, I'm not backing out. I'll be on the spectrum. It's just, it's just such a weird experience, such a weird experience. I sincerely love Nav. So anyway, I hope that answered the question.

Yeah, you know, I think in a roundabout way it kind of did.

I think it kind of did.

Very cool. We've got some other questions coming through the chat, I think, to speak to what's coming through, you've kind of already answered in terms of, you know, Vincent's got a question here about, you know, do you get onto any podcast? And I see Julie's question here about, you know, making sure that you have something that's brand aligned. But from what I'm hearing is like if they're offering, sort of say yes and get the reps in them, all right?

Yeah, like I really, Let me say this as nice as I can. 0 times 1,000 is still 0. 0 times 1 million is still 0. 0 times infinity is still 0. When you have zero brand, you got zero things to protect. Just get on. Make sense? Like, get on and build the reps. And if you're getting on a shitty podcast No one's going to see it, but you get better. But you're not going to— like, you cannot get a worse brand if your brand is zero, because zero times anything is still zero, right? Like, I don't know, it's almost like being picky with who I brand myself with, but sometimes we've got to be a bit humble too, you know. It's Hang on a sec. I actually don't really have a brand right now. Let's be real. I've got zero brand. So why am I being so picky about this? It's— yeah, that's as nice as I can say it. Thanks, TK.

You know, I think you've done well. I think you've done well. I think there'll be a few people changing some curtains and dressing up some podcast areas, and we'll be ready to rock and roll. Wendy's got it.

Wendy's like, yeah.

Nobody knows me anyway. All right, fine, I'll do it. I'll do it.

Yeah, fantastic.

I love it, mate. I think as for questions, uh, we're looking pretty good. I will bow tie it with this one from Kat, who says, uh, where do we start to look?

Good question, good question. So when I'm cold DMing, that, that, this, it's a good question and it's the easiest one to answer. You don't lack information anymore. You don't lack information anymore. If you had to guess how to find podcasters, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? The only reason why you wouldn't do it is because you don't want it. But yeah, TK, what have we got in chat screen?

Somebody wrote Ghostbusters. I don't know if that's what you were shooting for. Who you gonna call? Okay, no. Okay, we got, we got Chat, we got Ask ChatGPT. I see some smiles on the screen as well. Yeah, ask around, ask AI, ask Claude.

Yeah, you guys have got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just use Chat and Claude. Yeah, and you go down a rabbit hole like you go down a rabbit hole. It is, it is quite overwhelming when you go down the rabbit hole to see how many people there are. It is insane. And then there's this other world where I have been scared to venture in, where they don't even have social media handles. You have to email them. Like, what the hell, podcasters? Because they're traditional media outlets. You know, it was wild. But I'll jump on them, like, you know what I mean? It was— it's wild.

It's—

you are not going to have a shortage of lists, I can assure you of that. If you can't find anyone, you are— um, it's not that you're not looking hard enough, it's just, it's just that you're protecting yourself with that narrative to say that, you know what, I want to use the reason that I couldn't find anyone to jump on because at least then I can say I never failed. Because the opposite is if I go down that rabbit hole and I find 100 people there and then I don't move forward with it, then what does that really mean about me? So staying ignorant is a better place to stay in than knowing actually how much opportunity there is out there. It is Wow, it is very overwhelming when you're planning a podcast tour and there's a lot of people you can go to. It's very overwhelming. I didn't know how many, how many podcasts were in Tampa, Florida. Tampa, Florida. It's like dozens. And I'm like, forget it. I'm not staying back a day in Tampa. Like, I love Tampa, but you know, it's very, I feel very far away from hometown and I'm in Tampa. So I didn't even stay back a day. There's so many, it's nuts. It is nuts. And that's in person. It is exponentially bigger virtually. When you go down that rabbit hole, it is crazy. You see the podcast conventions these days? You see them online? Look it up. Look up podcast conventions. There's like thousands of people there. It's— they're big events. They are huge events. There's so many podcasters now. It's wild. It is wild. I hope that helps. Hope that helps.

Yeah, absolutely. And mate, I think we are also looking good for questions in the chat.

Okay, so I trust that you love the DEMO Framework. No one in the industry right now is teaching that. It's something I wish I had when I went on my first podcast because I've had so many situations where I choked and I didn't know what to say. But that being said, if this was valuable to you and you want to learn more on how to get leads in your coaching business I have an 8-hour lead generation full-blown course on my channel right now on how to get leads now. So make sure you catch that video on how to get leads now.